Labour veteran Roy Hattersley in attack on religion (From York Press)

He's absolutely spot on, people who are capable of thinking for themselves know that religion is a far-fetched disgrace that has caused the majority of the world's problems. I'm totally open minded when it comes to how we got here but I do not believe the stories of old that were created by a human being whose aim was to use a book to control the masses. The fact that Muslims' are willing to kill innocent people and riot over what one person said is just hard to understand. Let science answer the questions, not a book written thousands of years ago.

I'd have thought spending an evening listening to Roy Hattersley would undermine anyone's ability to believe in the existence of a compassionate and beneficent deity.

Tom6187 wrote:
He's absolutely spot on, people who are capable of thinking for themselves know that religion is a far-fetched disgrace that has caused the majority of the world's problems. I'm totally open minded when it comes to how we got here but I do not believe the stories of old that were created by a human being whose aim was to use a book to control the masses. The fact that Muslims' are willing to kill innocent people and riot over what one person said is just hard to understand. Let science answer the questions, not a book written thousands of years ago.

Religion isn't the problem, people are the problem. That's why those wackos blow themselves up, not because their religion tells them to. You wouldn't know how to blow yourself up when these books were written. Yes, it goes deeper as some of those wackos are teachers who twist young minds into thinking that's the way, but find me a religious book that tells people to mass murder and you'll struggle.

Also, if you follow the example of our Jesus Christ, would you turn out to be a bad person? No.

Sure, it's not literal. There isn't a God in the clouds. Jesus was highly liking very tanned - not white - as he lived in the middle east, and so on.

Not particularly religious myself, but it can be a comfort to people, especially those about to die.

Also, I can tell you I was "praying" during those four minutes of extra time as York beat Luton to get promoted at Wembley! God answered! :D

People should listen to Roy Hattersley - he and other politicians are experts in hypocrisy. Each of us are individuals and all different, from millionaires like Mr Hattersley and Mr Milliband down to the people they want to represent.

Tom6187 wrote:
He's absolutely spot on, people who are capable of thinking for themselves know that religion is a far-fetched disgrace that has caused the majority of the world's problems. I'm totally open minded when it comes to how we got here but I do not believe the stories of old that were created by a human being whose aim was to use a book to control the masses. The fact that Muslims' are willing to kill innocent people and riot over what one person said is just hard to understand. Let science answer the questions, not a book written thousands of years ago.

Yep, religion is a tool for abuse of the majority by the controlling minority. Muslims are unfairly singled out for much stick at the moment because some of their followers, a small minority, are prepared to kill in the name of their religion which is based on their own twisted view. Worryingly, there are many negative stereotypes of muslims which give people the wrong impression.

Roy Hattersley is right in what he says. The worrying thing for me as an atheist is the fact that people of a faith will have more rights and priorities of those without. Religion has a snug mantle for itself giving its believers many rights. The fact that creationists of all persuasions have been murdering and persecuting each other since records began says everything. Look at the Nazi SS. On their belts, the words "Gott mit uns", God with us. Look at the catholic church and all the harm to races and abuse to children that has occurred by representatives of its faith undertaking gross human activities.

The Bible and Koran are fictional works created with extreme dogma and judgements over 100s of years. Mohammed had been dead 300 years by the time the Koran was finished.

Religions will tell you to not question what you hear, read or see, they instead tell you to just 'believe' often without question - "God moves in mysterious ways", "It's not for us to question why", "Don't try to work out why, just believe" - Statements that contradict the thinking offered by a good education. The key to disabling religion for good is to educate people to think for themselves and don't let other people do the thinking for them.

The human race has done pretty well to still be around but look at what it could have achieved without religion.

Think about it - a Church riddled with pedophiles that covers up thousands of cases of child abuse all over the world, who on earth is going to take such an organisation seriously; The so called "great Christian Churches" which preach and moralize to us are nothing but hypocrits, long live secularism.

That last sentence by Graham Hutchinson is totally correct.
He says it’s difficult for an atheist to reason on moral questions because Christian ideas have influenced them more than they think.
If you are a Christian it’s very easy to comment because all you have to do toe the line and repeat what you are told.
Conversely an atheist doesn’t have this easy route. They have to establish the facts, assess the evidence, apply logic and reason and draw their own conclusion, while all the time ensuring the process isn’t tainted by unquestioning religious opinions
Thank God for atheists!

I have to disagree with his point about burglars. If I caught someone breaking into my house to steal my property I'd beat him within an inch of his life.

If I was in a good mood that is.

ReginaldBiscuit wrote:

Tom6187 wrote:
He's absolutely spot on, people who are capable of thinking for themselves know that religion is a far-fetched disgrace that has caused the majority of the world's problems. I'm totally open minded when it comes to how we got here but I do not believe the stories of old that were created by a human being whose aim was to use a book to control the masses. The fact that Muslims' are willing to kill innocent people and riot over what one person said is just hard to understand. Let science answer the questions, not a book written thousands of years ago.

Yep, religion is a tool for abuse of the majority by the controlling minority. Muslims are unfairly singled out for much stick at the moment because some of their followers, a small minority, are prepared to kill in the name of their religion which is based on their own twisted view. Worryingly, there are many negative stereotypes of muslims which give people the wrong impression.

Roy Hattersley is right in what he says. The worrying thing for me as an atheist is the fact that people of a faith will have more rights and priorities of those without. Religion has a snug mantle for itself giving its believers many rights. The fact that creationists of all persuasions have been murdering and persecuting each other since records began says everything. Look at the Nazi SS. On their belts, the words "Gott mit uns", God with us. Look at the catholic church and all the harm to races and abuse to children that has occurred by representatives of its faith undertaking gross human activities.

The Bible and Koran are fictional works created with extreme dogma and judgements over 100s of years. Mohammed had been dead 300 years by the time the Koran was finished.

Religions will tell you to not question what you hear, read or see, they instead tell you to just 'believe' often without question - "God moves in mysterious ways", "It's not for us to question why", "Don't try to work out why, just believe" - Statements that contradict the thinking offered by a good education. The key to disabling religion for good is to educate people to think for themselves and don't let other people do the thinking for them.

The human race has done pretty well to still be around but look at what it could have achieved without religion.

Well put, I couldn't disagree with any of it.

I find the world with religion bad enough; and a world without it too terrible to contemplate!

Bless him

Well said Mr Hattersley. It's a shame that too many politicians wait until they have left power before daring to criticise the ridiculous things one has to believe to be a person of 'faith'.

ReginaldBiscuit wrote:

Tom6187 wrote:
He's absolutely spot on, people who are capable of thinking for themselves know that religion is a far-fetched disgrace that has caused the majority of the world's problems. I'm totally open minded when it comes to how we got here but I do not believe the stories of old that were created by a human being whose aim was to use a book to control the masses. The fact that Muslims' are willing to kill innocent people and riot over what one person said is just hard to understand. Let science answer the questions, not a book written thousands of years ago.

Yep, religion is a tool for abuse of the majority by the controlling minority. Muslims are unfairly singled out for much stick at the moment because some of their followers, a small minority, are prepared to kill in the name of their religion which is based on their own twisted view. Worryingly, there are many negative stereotypes of muslims which give people the wrong impression.

Roy Hattersley is right in what he says. The worrying thing for me as an atheist is the fact that people of a faith will have more rights and priorities of those without. Religion has a snug mantle for itself giving its believers many rights. The fact that creationists of all persuasions have been murdering and persecuting each other since records began says everything. Look at the Nazi SS. On their belts, the words "Gott mit uns", God with us. Look at the catholic church and all the harm to races and abuse to children that has occurred by representatives of its faith undertaking gross human activities.

The Bible and Koran are fictional works created with extreme dogma and judgements over 100s of years. Mohammed had been dead 300 years by the time the Koran was finished.

Religions will tell you to not question what you hear, read or see, they instead tell you to just 'believe' often without question - "God moves in mysterious ways", "It's not for us to question why", "Don't try to work out why, just believe" - Statements that contradict the thinking offered by a good education. The key to disabling religion for good is to educate people to think for themselves and don't let other people do the thinking for them.

The human race has done pretty well to still be around but look at what it could have achieved without religion.

Actually "Gott mit uns" was the Germany Army.

The atheist SS had "My Honour through loyalty" and, when killed in battle, SS men were buried under under a swastika rather than the Christian cross.

But the SS never hurt anyone did they? Bit like the other atheists Stalin and Mao. In fact, aetheistic movements like Nazism or Communism never hurt anyone in the 20th Century did they?

Disappointed by the misleading headline and highly selective editing of what Lord Hattersley actually said last night.

He did NOT attack religion, despite his own personal position. He criticised the interpretation of religious texts to justify inequality, pointing out that those who do this do so because they have something to gain or a risk of losing something. themselves.

His lecture was inspirational and focused on fairness and ways to improve equality - improving society for the good of all, rather than the few.

good job he didn't attack the muslim faith like this, there would have been more global riots for sure. everyone is entitled to there opinion, his is accepted if not agreed with, I won't be starting any riots, other faiths take note !!!!

A politician attacking hypocracy in others, well there's a thing....

Hell DOES exist. It's an evening of the wit and wisdom of Roy Hattersley.