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Performers fight street café scheme (From York Press)
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Performers fight King’s Square street café scheme
10:00am Wednesday 25th July 2012 in News
By Richard Catton, richard.catton@thepress.co.uk
Escapologist Rob Roy Collins in action in King’s Square
STREET artists and performers in York say plans to put tables and chairs in King’s Square will bring an end to decades of tradition in the city centre.
York’s new attraction, Chocolate: York’s Sweet Story, is hoping to extend its café by allowing customers to eat and drink at seven or eight tables in the square outside, up to 8pm.
But street artists who have long used the area to perform say the café extension would leave them with no room for an audience.
Escape artist Rob Roy Collins, who is leading the Save King’s Square campaign, said: “If they get planning permission it means there just won’t be room for audiences so performing would be pointless. It’s just going to kill us because there won’t be anywhere to perform.”
He said: “Aside from local acts, many of the world’s best street performers pass through York and perform at King’s Square.”
A spokesman for Chocolate: York’s Sweet Story said: “We love King’s Square as much as anyone. That’s why we chose to invest £2 million in it. We chose it because it is lively, vibrant and entertaining. We want buskers in the Square as much as they want to busk. We are very disappointed that they don’t want to listen to that message.
“It is our intention to sit alongside other users ie the three traders and buskers (when they are there which is not all the time) sharing a newly tidied-up Square with the general public also.”
The attraction said it had sought pre-planning advice from City of York Council before the formal submission in order to “best accommodate other users”.
The spokesman said: “We then revised our submission accordingly. It is now with the City Council to make a decision and we will accept whatever decision they make.”
Comments(52)
3.8liter
says...
10:35am Wed 25 Jul 12
How many york citizens want this anyway?
While there at it, arn't we all just fed up of the constant racket produced by the numerous, so called musicians who use amplified equipment in Parliament
Street. There are always several groups and their sounds all overlap producing one large noise.
chunkyyorkie
says...
10:39am Wed 25 Jul 12
Zetkin
says...
10:39am Wed 25 Jul 12
m dee
says...
11:07am Wed 25 Jul 12
chunkyyorkie wrote:Spot on well said, these cafes/ect are pushing the boundaries just to double their seating area without cost putting claim to a well used public area,yet should a small local business put out a advertising board they are told to move it on health and safety of partially sighted and for various other reasons.
Just walked past Kings Square and seen the circled area proposed by the Chocolate place. It’s location is completely unworkable – and it does not take a genius to realise this. Either the buskers and street entertainers stay and do what they have been doing for decades or else the new Sweet place ruins the area and character of the place by putting tables and chair right in the middle. How will it be possible to “sit alongside” the buskers when the area they want is exactly where the crowds all stand watching the entertainers?! No contest in my mind – we have plenty enough places to sit and enjoy a coffee in the city, but there is no other place with a natural ‘stage’ setting for the entertainers to perform. Let’s hope common sense prevails. Incidentally it has been commented on numerous occasions that only since the Chocolate place opened someone thinks it is ok to use Kings Square as a car park for their 4x4. Coincidence?
bolero
says...
11:11am Wed 25 Jul 12
york_chap
says...
11:18am Wed 25 Jul 12
eboracum
says...
11:25am Wed 25 Jul 12
And if not - Why not ?
bolero
says...
11:37am Wed 25 Jul 12
eboracum wrote:Who is the `our` you refer to please? Or are you confirming what I said,that the Street entertainers think they have a monopoly?
May we know if these outdoor cafe extensions pay extra business rates for hogging our space? And if not - Why not ?
Woody G Mellor
says...
11:45am Wed 25 Jul 12
york_chap wrote:Please define a "proper job".
This is terrible news. Those poor 'street performers' might have to go out and find...heaven forbid...an actual job. Scary stuff.
Isn't going out each day doing what you do best, earning honest money, good enough?
Whilst entertaining tourists at the same time.
again
says...
11:49am Wed 25 Jul 12
Zetkin wrote:Totally agree. Whilst I don't watch the buskers these days it always brightens my day to see how much pleasure they give to their spectators.
There have been street performers in King's Square for as long as I can remember - I hope they don't get pushed out by yet another pretentious "pavement cafe".
Dominic123
says...
11:54am Wed 25 Jul 12
TheTruthHurts
says...
11:54am Wed 25 Jul 12
'
If they are bumped out for a few extra cafe tables York will be a poorer place for it.
Some old bloke
says...
11:57am Wed 25 Jul 12
danno99uk
says...
12:19pm Wed 25 Jul 12
York_visitor
says...
12:21pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Most street entertainers are professional, self-employed, highly skilled performers. They pay taxes and have public liability insurance.
I greatly enjoy their work in adding colour and live entertainment to York,without cost to the rate payers of York. Kings Square and York's tourism appeal will be diminished if the Chocolate Story is allowed, for commercial interest, to go ahead with their proposal. I think York is already well provided for with tables and chairs.
Stressed Out
says...
12:30pm Wed 25 Jul 12
meme
says...
12:30pm Wed 25 Jul 12
It is also right to say the bigger more publicity conscious but ultimately doomed to fail attractions such as this get better treatment as they are perceived to bring more visitors to the City. However its my view that it is the architecture and mix of restaurants/retailer
s/buskers etc that makes York attractive to all so the smaller retailers should be helped first as they are the keystone to differentiating York from everywhere else
Street performance , noisy or not, is a crucial part of York's atmosphere and to jeapordise this for the sake of a cafe, masquerading as a chocolate museum would be criminal
whitehorse
says...
12:31pm Wed 25 Jul 12
GooseTrackLane
says...
12:34pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Personally, I'd much rather see buskers getting soaked than lots of garden furniture all over the place.
Bigger issue is the use of the square as a blue-badge car park. Get rid of the cars and deny this application please.
Opinion1
says...
12:47pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Buzz Light-year
says...
12:52pm Wed 25 Jul 12
The people whinging about the noise of musicians in King's Square obviously don't know what they are talking about, there are hardly ever people playing music there. It is mostly the full show escape artist, juggler, comedy crowd banter types.
Also the performers take care to tell the crowd that what they do is their job. What's a proper job?
It's not just the buskers either, there's the morris men who come and there's the ice cream wagon
Disgusting that a new "attraction" can just muscle in and expect to disrupt ages old tradition.
Old_Man
says...
12:57pm Wed 25 Jul 12
YSTClinguist
says...
1:12pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Woody G Mellor
says...
1:13pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Eugene F
says...
1:23pm Wed 25 Jul 12
chunkyyorkie
says...
1:46pm Wed 25 Jul 12
The crowds this afternoon were gathered watching the entertainment and had totally covered the whole area where the Sweet place want to put their seating area. It is comical!
Clearly if they get permission approved then the next (obvious) step of their plan would surely be to say their customers are been disturbed and interrupted by the shouting crowds jostling to see the entertainment.
And for the record Kings Square performers do not have amplified sound like they do in Parliament Street.
eboracum
says...
1:51pm Wed 25 Jul 12
bolero wrote:To clarify - "our" as in - belonging the citizens of this fair city.
eboracum wrote: May we know if these outdoor cafe extensions pay extra business rates for hogging our space? And if not - Why not ?Who is the `our` you refer to please? Or are you confirming what I said,that the Street entertainers think they have a monopoly?
powerwatt
says...
2:33pm Wed 25 Jul 12
The cafe culture is popular and should be encourage.
If the council gave a more space for disabled parking in the car parks there would be no need to allow access on the so called pedestrianised streets.
We know they wont do this as they would lose the revenue from having disabled spaces in the car parks, but it would make the City Centre more people friendly.
Jiffy
says...
2:37pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Woody G Mellor wrote:And superb they were!!
By the way. I saw The Clash busking in Kings Square back in 1985. Well, Joe Strummer, Paul Simmonon and the other ones. ;0)
idlehousewife
says...
3:47pm Wed 25 Jul 12
King's Square is a very busy thoroughfare and public right of way.
Zetkin
says...
4:02pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Buzz Light-year
says...
4:06pm Wed 25 Jul 12
idlehousewife wrote:It's the Continuum Group. They are based off Walmgate.
I wonder who owns the Chocolate Story? King's Square is a very busy thoroughfare and public right of way.
They run a couple of other "attractions" elsewhere in the country.
keepitshut
says...
4:32pm Wed 25 Jul 12
powerwatt wrote:I always thought there was a very large area of Piccadilly Car Park just for the use of disabled drivers?
Pedestrianse the area and use the whole street then.
The cafe culture is popular and should be encourage.
If the council gave a more space for disabled parking in the car parks there would be no need to allow access on the so called pedestrianised streets.
We know they wont do this as they would lose the revenue from having disabled spaces in the car parks, but it would make the City Centre more people friendly.
idlehousewife
says...
4:50pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Chip monk
says...
5:00pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Evil Ena
says...
5:05pm Wed 25 Jul 12
keepitshut wrote:I think it's important to note that most of the buskers (mainly circle show buskers) on King's square run successful and professional shows. There are also the ice cream and lemonade stalls that I know do good trade as well.
powerwatt wrote: Pedestrianse the area and use the whole street then. The cafe culture is popular and should be encourage. If the council gave a more space for disabled parking in the car parks there would be no need to allow access on the so called pedestrianised streets. We know they wont do this as they would lose the revenue from having disabled spaces in the car parks, but it would make the City Centre more people friendly.I always thought there was a very large area of Piccadilly Car Park just for the use of disabled drivers?
Seems a tad undemocratic for a bigger business (but maybe not a more successfull one in this area) to run ramshackle over, and then curtail, the businesses that presently exist.
York1900
says...
5:09pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Some buskers draw big crowds there and it is hard enough to get past the crowd but with tables it will make it impossible to get past
It seem that these attractions come to York then try to take over wanting to do this that and the other
would they of got planning permision for the attraction if the table requirement was in the plans at the start
newbeginings
says...
5:26pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Evil Ena
says...
5:40pm Wed 25 Jul 12
If things are not working out at the Chocolate Story then I don't see that turning it into another outdoor cafe is the way forward.
They should take a tip from an old busker! If the act isn't working then take some time to make it better.
Melissa Sanders
says...
6:59pm Wed 25 Jul 12
If you want to learn about chocolate without the disneyland attempt at storytelling, I suggest you visit York Cocoa House. Authentic, understated and fitting to the history of York.
Melissa Sanders
says...
7:00pm Wed 25 Jul 12
pedalling paul
says...
10:04pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Millies Cookies over the road had a simlar request turned down a few years ago.
NoMorePlease
says...
10:36pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Chip monk wrote:Oh very good indeed
Is it not morally wrong to pay street performers in cash?
yorkonafork
says...
10:39pm Wed 25 Jul 12
Woody G Mellor wrote:I'd like to see this answered as well. What a tosspot comment by York_chap.
york_chap wrote:Please define a "proper job".
This is terrible news. Those poor 'street performers' might have to go out and find...heaven forbid...an actual job. Scary stuff.
Isn't going out each day doing what you do best, earning honest money, good enough?
Whilst entertaining tourists at the same time.
Magicman!
says...
2:12am Thu 26 Jul 12
m dee
says...
10:05am Thu 26 Jul 12
powerwatt wrote:How could you use the whole street as access would be needed for emergency vehicles and deliveries ect ?
Pedestrianse the area and use the whole street then.
The cafe culture is popular and should be encourage.
If the council gave a more space for disabled parking in the car parks there would be no need to allow access on the so called pedestrianised streets.
We know they wont do this as they would lose the revenue from having disabled spaces in the car parks, but it would make the City Centre more people friendly.
m dee
says...
10:15am Thu 26 Jul 12
keepitshut wrote:keepitshut says.
powerwatt wrote:I always thought there was a very large area of Piccadilly Car Park just for the use of disabled drivers?
Pedestrianse the area and use the whole street then.
The cafe culture is popular and should be encourage.
If the council gave a more space for disabled parking in the car parks there would be no need to allow access on the so called pedestrianised streets.
We know they wont do this as they would lose the revenue from having disabled spaces in the car parks, but it would make the City Centre more people friendly.
I always thought there was a very large area of Piccadilly Car Park just for the use of disabled drivers?
Yes there is but why would they want to park at the top of there if wanted to shop in say Goodramgate for example ?.
steve_york
says...
1:20pm Thu 26 Jul 12
keepitshut
says...
6:43pm Thu 26 Jul 12
Magicman! wrote:There were some benches.......but Sir Ron Cooke and his "de-cluttering" saw that they were removed.
Why not just freshen up the whole square and make it look nice and new (a bit like library square) but with more benches and places to sit - as general seating and not specific to some commercial premises. The licensed buskers would benefit from more people watching as they can sit down.
Lerinda
says...
3:09pm Fri 27 Jul 12
chunkyyorkie wrote:Perhaps the traffic wardens should be on the lookout for that 4 x 4.
Just walked past Kings Square and seen the circled area proposed by the Chocolate place. It’s location is completely unworkable – and it does not take a genius to realise this. Either the buskers and street entertainers stay and do what they have been doing for decades or else the new Sweet place ruins the area and character of the place by putting tables and chair right in the middle. How will it be possible to “sit alongside” the buskers when the area they want is exactly where the crowds all stand watching the entertainers?! No contest in my mind – we have plenty enough places to sit and enjoy a coffee in the city, but there is no other place with a natural ‘stage’ setting for the entertainers to perform. Let’s hope common sense prevails. Incidentally it has been commented on numerous occasions that only since the Chocolate place opened someone thinks it is ok to use Kings Square as a car park for their 4x4. Coincidence?
It seems to me that if the Sweet Story owners were rather less greedy (£10 to walk through half a dozen rooms and taste a bit of chocolate!) they might have more customers for the attraction itself and not need to try to balance the books by cluttering up the square with tables.
Magicman!
says...
2:38am Sat 28 Jul 12
keepitshut wrote:Well that's typical isn't it... some old bloke who probably has slight OCD about things looking minimalist, and now people don't have somewhere sit!
Magicman! wrote:There were some benches.......but Sir Ron Cooke and his "de-cluttering" saw that they were removed.
Why not just freshen up the whole square and make it look nice and new (a bit like library square) but with more benches and places to sit - as general seating and not specific to some commercial premises. The licensed buskers would benefit from more people watching as they can sit down.
meme says...
10:33am Wed 25 Jul 12
The officious planners recently made a local cafe remove ONE table and chair from Low Petergate on the basis it was detrimental to the historic nature of the City..Complete twaddle of course; it was just jobsworths interfering yet i suspect this is a done deal!