LIVE: Strike latest from across the region (From York Press)

"a lot of people are waving and beeping their horns."
I was one.... but waving wasn't exactly how I intended it to look...

Very understandable strike given the non-stop assualt from the government. Many public sector workers are quite low paid and were promised decent pensions as part of the joining deal. There's quite a lot of sympathy around for this strike as the BBC poll showed.

Big Bad Wolf wrote:
"a lot of people are waving and beeping their horns."
I was one.... but waving wasn't exactly how I intended it to look...

I love the way the Press just takes the union's word for things and prints it. I've been past two of the locations mentioned above this morning and I can honestly say I've seen more support for former Lib Dem Councilor Galloway and kinder hand gestures directed at FTR buses from "motorists" than this shower were getting.

yorkshirelad wrote:
Very understandable strike given the non-stop assualt from the government. Many public sector workers are quite low paid and were promised decent pensions as part of the joining deal. There's quite a lot of sympathy around for this strike as the BBC poll showed.

Well yes, but I'd be very surprised if a poll by the BBC who's employees also consider themselves victims of the cuts showed anything else other than total support for what is in effect an extra days Christmas shopping for most strikers.

Where have all the comments gone?

Is it due to the fact they were discussing of the 'support' from motorists was actually akin to hurling abuse and swearing. Not waving and beeping support.

I see the comments are back, very odd.

I haven't seen any public support yet and the picket lines aren't exactly bustling with activity.

Although the march will be busy, means they can all do their christmas shopping at the same time.

I genuinely sympathise with the staff who stand to lose some of their benefits. It recently happened to me in the private sector. Difference is i don't decide not go to work in protest of what has happened, i'll have to work round it a different, less disruptive way.

All strikes appear to do are affect the everyday people who pay the public sector wages. I try not to see it this way but cannot help feel that any strike, be it government or transport etc is a direct attack on the average Joe public.

I feel sorry for all the parents who are forced into taking holidays or time off work unpaid today as teachers do not see fit to turn into work.

Having said that...they've been quite provoked in this instance haven't they? What other rational choice to they have? In a democratic society going on strike is a legal, reasonable thing to do...as long as it is a last resort. In many other countries there would be a bit more conciliation...but in this case it seemed that the government had it in for public sector workers... for what I'm not exactly sure....

It's quite clear that democratic govt is now just a front for the money men to do as they please.

They can manipulate the economies of entire countries, far more bigger than Greece. These market forces are the wind that was sown in the 80's and we are reaping what it has become. Let's hope it does not turn into the whirlwind that many expect.

The strikers will not change things but they might wake people out of their complacency.

I do sympathise with public sector workers but in this tough economic crisis we are all affected. I feel more sorry for the working parents who don’t earn as much as nurses and teachers etc who have to pay a lot more into their pensions which will not be as near as good as the public sector ones. Plus having to take unpaid holiday or pay expensive childcare costs are doubly effected. Plus no doubt we will have to foot the bill if the pension packages get reviewed.

I love it. There is an advert for an annuity calculator at the top of the page. With nothing else to do, I suggest the strikers use it. They don't know they're born. I'd happily swap my pension for a public sector one.

I can't believe that these strikes are going to do any good. The union leaders spout lots off guff about how unfair the new pension deal is, how low paid the workers are and how their jobs are no longer secure. I have read what the PCS have sent me and if I didn't feel I needed the union for other situations I would leave. It's time the unions got more realistic and started to look around at how the private sector has suffered with job losses (Accompanied by appaling redundancy packages), their pensions are lower than any in the public sector even if we go onto to average rather than final pay. It's time we all got real, learned to live within our means and accepting that we can't necessarily have everything that we desire. Take a lesson from those who lived through the 50's who accepted thier lot

I think It was Mark Twain who coined the phrase "Lies, damned lies, and statistics". I do wish there was a little more balance when it came to establishing the facts . The average pension in the NHS is c.£6,000 pa. If there are those in the private sector who feel envious over this generous amount, they have my deepest and genuine sympathy. On one hand we are told not to 'bash the bankers', and yet on the other hand it appears to be 'open season' on ordinary men and women trying to defend the contractual agreements they signed in good faith.

Of course they are not going to win, how can they? I would like to think however that the public would be a little more circumspect and not be hoodwinked by the ideologically challenged!

Mummymetal...the fact that some public sector pensions look better than private sector ones (mostly none at all!) does not necessarily mean that public sector ones are too high (though the Tories would like you to think this).... It could mean that private companies simply prefer to take more profits or pay their shareholders more... Guess who will be paying the welfare in the future for those who worked for private companies who couldn't be bothered to sort out a decent pension scheme?
The other forgotton thing is that employees pay much of the pension costs in contributions...and.
..the empoyers bit is often factored into the pay costs (known as 'on-costs'). This is why, in general, public sector jobs had lower pay but better pensions. Swings and roundabouts really. I just don't see what your average binman or care-worker has done wrong by taking a responsible attitude to their future and contributing to their pension scheme... Basically a a lot more responsible than anyone earning and not contributing to some sort of pension (private, public or whatever).

Defra building picket line manned by unions unrepresented on site. At least I can sit in my favourite pub's garden without having their staff skiving from work, using the facilities without buying anything, while they have their lengthy fag breaks in the time us taxpayers are paying them for. Sympathy? - no!

How teachers can complain I dont know,eg junior school deputy head 45-50k, job for life(till early retirement).Great holidays and weekends off.Still I dont begrudge them the good life,just dont understand why they feel hard done by especially when the private sector is ruins at the moment.

perplexed wrote:
I think It was Mark Twain who coined the phrase "Lies, damned lies, and statistics". I do wish there was a little more balance when it came to establishing the facts . The average pension in the NHS is c.£6,000 pa. If there are those in the private sector who feel envious over this generous amount, they have my deepest and genuine sympathy. On one hand we are told not to 'bash the bankers', and yet on the other hand it appears to be 'open season' on ordinary men and women trying to defend the contractual agreements they signed in good faith. Of course they are not going to win, how can they? I would like to think however that the public would be a little more circumspect and not be hoodwinked by the ideologically challenged!

Averages are meaningless without context. How long on average have those people worked in the NHS?

monkeyhanger wrote:
How teachers can complain I dont know,eg junior school deputy head 45-50k, job for life(till early retirement).Great holidays and weekends off.Still I dont begrudge them the good life,just dont understand why they feel hard done by especially when the private sector is ruins at the moment.

I believe this stems from the fact that these head teachers have never been outside of the education system and have no idea what life is like in the real world with threats of redundancy and hardship.
They have this idea that everyone in the private sector is a company director on £120K and should pay their dues because they are accademics who teach young children how to read and count.
Rant over sorry.

Judging by the tone of some of these postings and TV coverage ,it's very obvious that the public in general are largely unappreciative of those who commit to public service in the UK .The possible exceptions to this are Police,Fire, Health and armed Forces,who are rightly lauded by the general public.It seems all the rest of us on the public sector are clearly on a permanent skive with fat pensions. I wish! I just would people would actually take trouble to find out a bit more about public service before engaging gob. Private Sector employers need to step up and offer equivalent pensions to their workers but it ain't going to happen is it? PS workers DO contrinute to their pensions , and plan for wheir (increasingly bleak) future.

"Mr MacFall says the vast majority of more than 1,000 civilian staff working for North Yorkshire Police will be striking today"

Just goes to show how Mr Macfall is using the media for his own ends.
North Yorkshire Police dont employ anywhere near 1000 civilian staff.

James Venamun wrote:
Judging by the tone of some of these postings and TV coverage ,it's very obvious that the public in general are largely unappreciative of those who commit to public service in the UK .The possible exceptions to this are Police,Fire, Health and armed Forces,who are rightly lauded by the general public.It seems all the rest of us on the public sector are clearly on a permanent skive with fat pensions. I wish! I just would people would actually take trouble to find out a bit more about public service before engaging gob. Private Sector employers need to step up and offer equivalent pensions to their workers but it ain't going to happen is it? PS workers DO contrinute to their pensions , and plan for wheir (increasingly bleak) future.

Your pensions are far better than those in the private sector James...
I am sure that no one thinks you are on a perminant skive, but those of us in the private sector do not have the luxury of being able to strike.... and while negotiations are still ongoing I think this is a terrible action to take.

It seems to me that the people of York are content with a race to the bottom and like to engage in some sort of competition to see who can have the worst old age. There also seems to be a large number of people who read the Daily Mail and believe every single word. Seems the education system does need a kick, certainly in this city. Don't like your private sector pension? Do something about it, don't moan and handwring as that will not help anyone. If the private sector does strike, the public sector will stand with you and support you.

As for Canardvert's comment, Defra staff use the smoking facilities only without buying anything with the permission of the bar staff and landlord. Its like that because it looks better for both office and pub if we smokers are out of the way around the back. Defra staff put plenty of money behind the bar at other times which is why the pub are fine with it (or so I understand from the people I have spoken to) I suggest you take it up with the pub if you're not happy. We will happily take our lunch money to another place if the Black Swan don't want us but I think you'll find they do.

The average pension for a female NHS worker, is £5,000. What is worse, half of all women pensioners who have worked in the NHS get a pension of less than £3,500 per year.
The NHS pension scheme actually hands billions of pounds over to the taxpayer each year. More is paid into the fund than is paid out to pensioners, and all that surplus goes to the Treasury – thereby helping, not hurting public finances.
The NHS pension scheme has already been reformed over recent years. Contributions made by NHS workers have risen, as has the retirement age, and the taxpayers’ contribution has been capped – if the scheme ever needs more money either NHS employees have to pay more or benefits have to be cut.
The real issue that seems to have been lost is how do we ensure that private sector workers, whose pensions have shrunk massively, have security in retirement; that is the real policy problem.

If ‘this is not ‘context ‘ enough , perhaps ‘Prob’ would care to use the NHS pension calculator : 1/80th of final salary for each full year you work in the NHS. It is not too difficult to work out even for those of us with an 'average' intelligence.

The average pension for a female NHS worker, is £5,000. What is worse, half of all women pensioners who have worked in the NHS get a pension of less than £3,500 per year.
The NHS pension scheme actually hands billions of pounds over to the taxpayer each year. More is paid into the fund than is paid out to pensioners, and all that surplus goes to the Treasury – thereby helping, not hurting public finances.
The NHS pension scheme has already been reformed over recent years. Contributions made by NHS workers have risen, as has the retirement age, and the taxpayers’ contribution has been capped – if the scheme ever needs more money either NHS employees have to pay more or benefits have to be cut.
The real issue that seems to have been lost is how do we ensure that private sector workers, whose pensions have shrunk massively, have security in retirement; that is the real policy problem.

If ‘this is not ‘context ‘ enough , perhaps ‘Prob’ would care to use the NHS pension calculator : 1/80th of final salary for each full year you work in the NHS. It is not too difficult to work out even for those of us with an 'average' intelligence.

Missy7878 wrote:
It seems to me that the people of York are content with a race to the bottom and like to engage in some sort of competition to see who can have the worst old age. There also seems to be a large number of people who read the Daily Mail and believe every single word. Seems the education system does need a kick, certainly in this city. Don't like your private sector pension? Do something about it, don't moan and handwring as that will not help anyone. If the private sector does strike, the public sector will stand with you and support you. As for Canardvert's comment, Defra staff use the smoking facilities only without buying anything with the permission of the bar staff and landlord. Its like that because it looks better for both office and pub if we smokers are out of the way around the back. Defra staff put plenty of money behind the bar at other times which is why the pub are fine with it (or so I understand from the people I have spoken to) I suggest you take it up with the pub if you're not happy. We will happily take our lunch money to another place if the Black Swan don't want us but I think you'll find they do.

So there's no denying that the staff do indeed spend hours there instead of being at work then? Read the post, the pub is not being criticised, it's the Defra staff who spend working hours there on smoking breaks when they are being paid! And do you not have a smoking area on site? I think you do, but it doesn't suit you to use it!

Polly Toynbee has written an excellent article on this subject: http://www.guardian.
co.uk/commentisfree/
2011/nov/29/osborne-
class-war-autumn-sta
tement

You have no support from me

Nobody forced any of you to become public sector workers
if you don't like it leave don't hold the rest of us to ransom

We are in a recession stop being so greedy

'Those of us in the private sector do not have the luxury of being able to strike'..... really???

In fact we can if we want to can't we? Frankly, pension provision is so bad in the private sector that it's astonishing we don't! No....people in the private sector accept terrible or no company pensions, watch their bosses and shareholders getting all the profit....and then, goaded by the Daily Mail and other tabloids, take out all their envy on their public sector neighbours. Strange.

All this rubbish on here from people saying private sector pensions, conditions etc. are not as good as the public sector is the best argument I have ever come across for joining a trade union! You want a pension, paid holiday, regulated working hours, bank holidays - how do you think they were achieved? They didn't just arrive from the goodness of a bosses heart - they had to be fought tooth and nail for!! If you want a pay rise - join a union - that simple. I suspect many of the dinasaurs on here are those selfish individuals who refuse to join a union but NEVER turn down the wage rises, holidays, matenity pay etc. and, yes, pensions which the union has had to argue with the bosses for. These selfish people are quick to criticise and just as quick to grab the benefits they have never lifted a finger to fight for. The people who refuse to join a union and then complain about them are the selfish ones and not the union members who fight for each others right. These people should feel thoroughly ashamed of their selfish behaviour - and keep their mouths shut unless they have got something constructive to say about making society a better place for ALL of us to live in, and not just that greedy, well off few who think it is allright to walk all over another human being.

Ichabod76 wrote:
You have no support from me

Nobody forced any of you to become public sector workers
if you don't like it leave don't hold the rest of us to ransom

We are in a recession stop being so greedy

There isn't the private sector jobs to go to. Are you saying they should make themselves unemployed.

All public sector pensions are different so I can only talk about the teachers’ scheme.
Current teacher and LA contributions pay for retired teachers’ pensions, the unions and Government renegotiated pension in 2007 so that the benefits were less and new teachers joining the scheme retired at 65 rather than 60 (too old to be teaching in my opinion but that is what their contract says). In 2007 we were told that would ‘solve’ the issue of people living longer and the scheme would be future proof and self financing.
We have now been told to pay an extra £100 a month and retire 7 years later. This is not due to affordability, but as a tax raising measure to help reduce the deficit. Personally I think this is wrong unfair, & I do not understand why it is not breach of contract. In negotiations the unions want to look at the figures and discuss actuarial but the government refuses – as I say these measures are not about pensions but an arbitrary tax rise against a specific group of people – we are hardly all in this together
Finally we do pay for private sector pensions – they receive tax relief on pensions (even millionaires) or through benefits to support their lack of planning.

In response to canardvert,

Are public sector workers not entitled to a lunch break? Or indeed tea and coffee breaks, are they not entitled to go outside for either? By the way, you are not paying for 'them' today, if they are on strike - they won't get paid. Still, at least you have the time to sit and have a nice drink in your favourite pub. I hope you are retired and have sufficient to live on, all your children are educated and that you are in good health and having a nice life. Did you know that public sector workers contribute to their own pensions and also pay tax.........

Dick Turpin says...
1:00pm Wed 30 Nov 11
"Mr MacFall says the vast majority of more than 1,000 civilian staff working for North Yorkshire Police will be striking today"
Just goes to show how Mr Macfall is using the media for his own ends.
North Yorkshire Police dont employ anywhere near 1000 civilian staff.

"The latest published figures show that as at 30 September 2010, there were 1,452 police officers, 187 police community support officers and 1,153 police civilian staff employed in the North Yorkshire police force." (Hansard)

Interesting to read the comments - I found a lot of support and sympathy from bystanders for those on the march today. As to those in the 1950s "accepting their lot" - hardly! Instead of complaining about how bad their pensions are, surely those in the private sector should be fighting to get them improved? Let's aspire to the highest level, rather than drag down those who might be considered to be on a better deal Don't forget - the average retired female local government worker has to survive on a "gold plated" pension of around £3k, on which she will pay tax. Let's keep things in context - it is the bankers who have caused the economic crisis, it is the government which has failed to sort it out, not some public sector worker trying to make ends meet and hoping to survive in their retirement.

How has the private sector ever in the last 50 years managed to recruit anyone if they're so hard done to by owners/shareholders and the public sector is so gold plated? The answer is the private sector get a better deal on average. The private sector influences the cabinet of millionaires to do its bidding.

yorkshirelad wrote:
Having said that...they've been quite provoked in this instance haven't they? What other rational choice to they have? In a democratic society going on strike is a legal, reasonable thing to do...as long as it is a last resort. In many other countries there would be a bit more conciliation...but in this case it seemed that the government had it in for public sector workers... for what I'm not exactly sure....

Same reason that Maggie Thatcher had it in for the miners and steel workers - to weaken the collective power of working people and give bankers and multinationals free reign to make more profits. One of the speakers today talked about a Tory plan to remove the right for workers transferred from public to private sector to keep their pension arrangements intact. That of course is part of the plan to follow the US example of hiving off more public sector jobs into the private sector to achieve lower pay and worse pension provision as a way of cutting costs. At the end of the day its not just the workers who suffer but the service users who get worse care and poorer public services that are accountable to no- one except the shareholders.

When is someone going to realise that today's action is only making the problem greater. The Country is in trouble, the Council has big problems, Council employees are doing extra work to make up for the staff who have been lost due to the cuts and the Union calls everyone out! I for one have been working from home because I do not have the time to strike and have more respect for both the public and my employers (CYC). Where was Unison when my colleagues were being got rid of and departments were being butchered. I for one will be leaving the Union after this!

I may be missing something, but I thought that the main pensions change was a shift to average salary from final salary in the Schemes. How does this square with the comments from nurses that their average pension is £6k? Does this mean they're on £6k per annum, or does it mean that they don't put in a full careers worth of service? if its the latter, why should they expect to get more if they've not put in the graft? serious question.

I may be missing something, but I thought that the main pensions change was a shift to average salary from final salary in the Schemes. How does this square with the comments from nurses that their average pension is £6k? Does this mean they're on £6k per annum, or does it mean that they don't put in a full careers worth of service? if its the latter, why should they expect to get more if they've not put in the graft? serious question.

jopublic wrote:
In response to canardvert, Are public sector workers not entitled to a lunch break? Or indeed tea and coffee breaks, are they not entitled to go outside for either? By the way, you are not paying for 'them' today, if they are on strike - they won't get paid. Still, at least you have the time to sit and have a nice drink in your favourite pub. I hope you are retired and have sufficient to live on, all your children are educated and that you are in good health and having a nice life. Did you know that public sector workers contribute to their own pensions and also pay tax.........

No I am not retired! But I do get the opportunity to note the several hours Defra staff spend smoking away from their work - not at lunch or tea breaks. And yes, public sector workers do contribute to their own pensions - most below 4% of salary. How much does the employer/taxpayer contribute?

PKH says...
3:34pm Wed 30 Nov 11

Ichabod76 wrote:
You have no support from me

Nobody forced any of you to become public sector workers
if you don't like it leave don't hold the rest of us to ransom

We are in a recession stop being so greedy
There isn't the private sector jobs to go to. Are you saying they should make themselves unemployed.

So if there are no private sector jobs to go for maybe they should be thankful they have a job at all

make half of them redundant and use the wages saved to top up the other half's pensions

And yes, public sector workers do contribute to their own pensions - most below 4% of salary.

Depends, some pay 11% and this is from The telegraph. None appear to be below 4% -

"Employee contributions have recently gone up, so teachers are now paying 6.4pc of salary (up from 6pc) and NHS workers pay between 5pc and 8.5pc (also up from 6pc). But the police have seen their contributions cut from 11pc of salary to 9.5pc, and firemen from 11pc to 8.5pc.
Members of the Armed Forces make no contribution, although their pay is lower as a result, and the contributions made by local authority workers, who were paying 6pc, are now on a sliding scale between 5.5pc and 7.5pc."

Most of the strikers work will be done by managers, GOD! they must hate having to work for their money

In response to some of the earlier comments, I was on a picket line today and apart from 2 meat-heads in a white van bravely throwing the V's up from the safety of a moving vehicle, public support was overwhelmingly supportive. Oh, and I'm expecting to pick up a pension of £60/week when I retire in 30 years.

I am a public sector worker on less than 17k a year and was put on the pension scheme. I will have to pay 250 a year more to my pension, work 3 years longer and receive just over £1000 less in pension per year and our average pensions are hardly "gold plated" when we will be looking at just over £5000 per year when we finally get to retire. especially when it was quoted that the average private sector pension was said to be around £5800 a year. There are also other public sector workers who would receive a lot less than I

yorknights wrote:
All this rubbish on here from people saying private sector pensions, conditions etc. are not as good as the public sector is the best argument I have ever come across for joining a trade union! You want a pension, paid holiday, regulated working hours, bank holidays - how do you think they were achieved? They didn't just arrive from the goodness of a bosses heart - they had to be fought tooth and nail for!! If you want a pay rise - join a union - that simple. I suspect many of the dinasaurs on here are those selfish individuals who refuse to join a union but NEVER turn down the wage rises, holidays, matenity pay etc. and, yes, pensions which the union has had to argue with the bosses for. These selfish people are quick to criticise and just as quick to grab the benefits they have never lifted a finger to fight for. The people who refuse to join a union and then complain about them are the selfish ones and not the union members who fight for each others right. These people should feel thoroughly ashamed of their selfish behaviour - and keep their mouths shut unless they have got something constructive to say about making society a better place for ALL of us to live in, and not just that greedy, well off few who think it is allright to walk all over another human being.

Well said - came across many of these when I worked in the private sector - nuff said!
I would also like to add that in 2000 was it not made law that if an employer had over 5 employees then they had to provide them access to a stakeholder pension & pay at least 3% into it for them? Given that an awful lot of public sector workers are on low pay, the contributions that the government are paying for them could well be less in most cases than those in private stakeholder schemes as their salaries are lower than those in the private?
Just a thought ..........

David Cameron has claimed the strike "looks like something of a damp squib"

He of all people is the person most likely to downplay the situation. But let's face it, if he said "this is horrible and nothing is getting done" then it'd make him look like a tool, even though everybody knows he is anyway.

What may have more effect, is that when the next Public sector strike is planned, those in the Private sector who are dissatisfied over the same things strike as well. A one day strike where almost everything shuts down will get a point across.

There is a fine balance between striking to make a point and get support, or going "british airways" and striking for prolonged periods at the conceivably worst time, which doesn't get support and just annoys everybody. This one day strike certainly got my support. Those who are Daily Mail readers won't probably understand this, so maybe they should go back to their 'angry dome' and go write a letter ranting to the Mail whilst the grown ups have a sensible informed discussion.

Pete the Brickie wrote:

Big Bad Wolf wrote:
"a lot of people are waving and beeping their horns."
I was one.... but waving wasn't exactly how I intended it to look...

I love the way the Press just takes the union's word for things and prints it. I've been past two of the locations mentioned above this morning and I can honestly say I've seen more support for former Lib Dem Councilor Galloway and kinder hand gestures directed at FTR buses from "motorists" than this shower were getting.

Pete, you read this site everyday. It's always one sided and everything they are told is printed as gospel.

Funny how so many public sector workers, who by definition are mainly in profit-driven careers, are now calling public sector workers greedy for expecting what was promised! How weak people have become, to assume all workers will fore-go their rights.
.
I saw plenty of support, and plenty disruption. Of course, if you assume everyone striking is on a headteacher's salary, you'd have little sympathy. But if you assume that, you may as well assume every private sector employee is a manager of big business with a five figure yearly bonus, a company car and free gym membership! It'd do you people good to remember that NHS cleaners and dinner ladies are public sector as well - and their pensions are already worse than most in the private sector. Still, I don't want to stand in the way of what the Daily Mail is telling you.

Jiffy says...
9:22pm Wed 30 Nov 11


Well said - came across many of these when I worked in the private sector - nuff said!
I would also like to add that in 2000 was it not made law that if an employer had over 5 employees then they had to provide them access to a stakeholder pension & pay at least 3% into it for them? Given that an awful lot of public sector workers are on low pay, the contributions that the government are paying for them could well be less in most cases than those in private stakeholder schemes as their salaries are lower than those in the private?
Just a thought ..........

Well yes but the government is paying an average of 11% of a workers annual salary in to their scheme which private sector employers never could afford. One of the major complaints is that the public schemes are changing from final salary to average salary which I for one think is fair, it will prevent senior staff abuse ie saving "bonus" payments until their final year and promotions being given just before retirement to boost pension payouts. It will also ensure those who pay in most consistantly will get the best pensions and I'd be over the moon with an average salary pension for the same contribution percentage wise as what some of these workers are striking over.

The biggest problem with yesterday's strike is that "pensioners" could not go on strike and show their support...

Pensioners, who have had their winter fuel allowance reduced - when Cameron, during a televised election broadcast, was stood between Nick Clegg and Gordon Brown. Mr Brown asked the question and the man who is now our Prime Minister stated: "We are committed to keeping the winter fuel allowance"...
They did that after the coldest winter on record and 25,400 pensioners dying between December 2009 and March 2010 from cold related illnesses : plus the escalating cost of living following the VAT increase...

The biggest problem with yesterday's strike is that "pensioners" could not go on strike and show their support...

Pensioners, who have had their winter fuel allowance reduced - when Cameron, during a televised election broadcast, was stood between Nick Clegg and Gordon Brown. Mr Brown asked the question and the man who is now our Prime Minister stated: "We are committed to keeping the winter fuel allowance"...
They did that after the coldest winter on record and 25,400 pensioners dying between December 2009 and March 2010 from cold related illnesses : plus the escalating cost of living following the VAT increase...

Pete the Brickie wrote:

Jiffy says... 9:22pm Wed 30 Nov 11 Well said - came across many of these when I worked in the private sector - nuff said! I would also like to add that in 2000 was it not made law that if an employer had over 5 employees then they had to provide them access to a stakeholder pension & pay at least 3% into it for them? Given that an awful lot of public sector workers are on low pay, the contributions that the government are paying for them could well be less in most cases than those in private stakeholder schemes as their salaries are lower than those in the private? Just a thought ..........

Well yes but the government is paying an average of 11% of a workers annual salary in to their scheme which private sector employers never could afford. One of the major complaints is that the public schemes are changing from final salary to average salary which I for one think is fair, it will prevent senior staff abuse ie saving "bonus" payments until their final year and promotions being given just before retirement to boost pension payouts. It will also ensure those who pay in most consistantly will get the best pensions and I'd be over the moon with an average salary pension for the same contribution percentage wise as what some of these workers are striking over.

Some is the key word there Pete.

11% of a low salary is still lower than 3% of a greater is it not? Think about it it is all relative.

As for the average salary - I suspect that in your profession you have had many years of plenty in the boom years & would hope that you have been able to put large amounts of money in your pot which will balance out for the years you may have not done so well such as now. Your pension, your contributions with no limits as to how much you can put away. There you go - you have an average salary pension so should be over the moon.
But, how about if you were permanently on a poor wage for the whole of your working life, with no additional money to invest then your average pension is going to be poor & will not sustain your retirement so will need to be picked up by the taxpayer ultimately anyway just so you can exist.

If you have opted to be self employed the onus is on you to carefully select your provider & invest for the best return for you. Personal pension providers were investigate & ruled against in the 90's for the horrendous management fees they were charging, the result, the investors rightly got a better deal. Would you invest in a product that saw you paying more in for a longer period than originally agreed for a smaller return than agreed rather than one that gives you back what has been invested when you want it , as a shrewd businessman I suspect not.

Public sector employees have no element of choice - the government will not investigate itself.

If senior staff have been abusing the scheme - then it is surely that which needs to be addressed as I agree that is wrong & again penalises those less well off. Why should everyone suffer for the greed of the few.

Dick Turpin wrote:
"Mr MacFall says the vast majority of more than 1,000 civilian staff working for North Yorkshire Police will be striking today"

Just goes to show how Mr Macfall is using the media for his own ends.
North Yorkshire Police dont employ anywhere near 1000 civilian staff.

I would like to make it clear that Mr Macfall is actually correct, the number of staff employed by North Yorkshire Police is 1053 staff and 183 PCSOs so a total of 1136 currently employed civillian staff, this is all available as Freedom of information. So if you are going to criticise at least get your facts right "Dick"

Dick Turpin wrote:
"Mr MacFall says the vast majority of more than 1,000 civilian staff working for North Yorkshire Police will be striking today"

Just goes to show how Mr Macfall is using the media for his own ends.
North Yorkshire Police dont employ anywhere near 1000 civilian staff.

I would like to make it clear that Mr Macfall is actually correct, the number of staff employed by North Yorkshire Police is 1053 staff and 183 PCSOs so a total of 1136 currently employed civillian staff, this is all available as Freedom of information. So if you are going to criticise at least get your facts right "Dick"

Pete the Brickie wrote:

Big Bad Wolf wrote:
"a lot of people are waving and beeping their horns."
I was one.... but waving wasn't exactly how I intended it to look...

I love the way the Press just takes the union's word for things and prints it. I've been past two of the locations mentioned above this morning and I can honestly say I've seen more support for former Lib Dem Councilor Galloway and kinder hand gestures directed at FTR buses from "motorists" than this shower were getting.

I was one who drove by the Police station and saw the Pickets, I for one pipped my horn in support and so did many others in front and behind me, so if "Pete the Brickie" did not mean his gesture in support then maybe next time I would not bother if I were you. I regularly read with interest your comments, usually aimed at our great Police service, and always with a negatively depressing view, you have clearly had bad experiences with them. How much time have you spent locked up or in prison for you to have such a negative view on life, its very sad, I feel for you.

Pete the Brickie wrote:

Big Bad Wolf wrote:
"a lot of people are waving and beeping their horns."
I was one.... but waving wasn't exactly how I intended it to look...

I love the way the Press just takes the union's word for things and prints it. I've been past two of the locations mentioned above this morning and I can honestly say I've seen more support for former Lib Dem Councilor Galloway and kinder hand gestures directed at FTR buses from "motorists" than this shower were getting.

I was one who drove by the Police station and saw the Pickets, I for one pipped my horn in support and so did many others in front and behind me, so if "Pete the Brickie" did not mean his gesture in support then maybe next time I would not bother if I were you. I regularly read with interest your comments, usually aimed at our great Police service, and always with a negatively depressing view, you have clearly had bad experiences with them. How much time have you spent locked up or in prison for you to have such a negative view on life, its very sad, I feel for you.

I was one who drove by the Police station and saw the Pickets, I for one pipped my horn in support and so did many others in front and behind me, so if "Pete the Brickie" did not mean his gesture in support then maybe next time I would not bother if I were you. I regularly read with interest your comments, usually aimed at our great Police service, and always with a negatively depressing view, you have clearly had bad experiences with them. How much time have you spent locked up or in prison for you to have such a negative view on life, its very sad, I feel for you.

Mr Fax wrote:
I was one who drove by the Police station and saw the Pickets, I for one pipped my horn in support and so did many others in front and behind me, so if "Pete the Brickie" did not mean his gesture in support then maybe next time I would not bother if I were you. I regularly read with interest your comments, usually aimed at our great Police service, and always with a negatively depressing view, you have clearly had bad experiences with them. How much time have you spent locked up or in prison for you to have such a negative view on life, its very sad, I feel for you.

If you took as much notice of the post you've quoted three times as you seem have of my previous ones you'd have noted I didn't claim to have made gestures negative or positive myself.

I think every one is against the cuts, but to strike I think is the wrong way to go about it,
as it effects every one.
So come people think your self lucky you have a Job and pension , there are Millions out there that Havent.
also someone has been writing on the City Walls , Strike etc!!! come on and wake up before you lose Public Support!!!!!!!!!!!

strange how you lot never went on strike when a certain mr brown raided the private sector pension funds (and NO my contributions never went down),this is the same git what sold our gold at a rock bottom price .corrupt the lot o em

Mr Fax wrote:

Pete the Brickie wrote:

Big Bad Wolf wrote:
"a lot of people are waving and beeping their horns."
I was one.... but waving wasn't exactly how I intended it to look...

I love the way the Press just takes the union's word for things and prints it. I've been past two of the locations mentioned above this morning and I can honestly say I've seen more support for former Lib Dem Councilor Galloway and kinder hand gestures directed at FTR buses from "motorists" than this shower were getting.

I was one who drove by the Police station and saw the Pickets, I for one pipped my horn in support and so did many others in front and behind me, so if "Pete the Brickie" did not mean his gesture in support then maybe next time I would not bother if I were you. I regularly read with interest your comments, usually aimed at our great Police service, and always with a negatively depressing view, you have clearly had bad experiences with them. How much time have you spent locked up or in prison for you to have such a negative view on life, its very sad, I feel for you.

only jealous because your pensions are not very good. But the private sector wages are better than the public sector. so thats why the public sector get better pensions.