Do you give two hoots about Brownies? JO HAYWOOD asks two York women how we can stop Brown Owls going the same way as the dodo.

THERE are more Brownies than you can shake a stick at (before using the stick to make a fire, stir up a pan full of sausages and direct a rousing chorus of 'Ging Gang Goolie'). But Brown Owls are a rarer breed.

There are 50,000 girls on the waiting list, but few places are available because pack leaders are in short supply. Girlguiding UK, formerly the Guide Association, has launched a recruitment campaign in an effort to clear the backlog. To do that, it would need 8,000 new volunteers.

To find out why more women should sign up with this highflying organisation, we caught up with two owls, of the Brown and Tawny variety. Here are their stories...

Margaret Hedderick, 56, of Woodthorpe, York - Brown Owl at 68th York St James the Deacon and district commissioner for Knavesmire:

"I've been a Brown Owl on and off since 1967, totalling 25 years in all. I've moved around a lot with my husband's work (Steve is a quantity surveyor), so I've run packs all over the world, including Oman.

I was a Brownie and a Guide myself. My mum was a Cub leader and my dad was a group Scout master, so I suppose you could say it runs in the family. My youngest daughter, Becky, is also a warranted leader (Margaret has three children, Catherine, Ian and 19-year-old Becky).

I took over here in Woodthorpe in 1989. A woman approached me in the local shop and said she had heard I used to be a Guider and would I be interested in taking over the local pack. I have been with them ever since.

The girls join when they are seven. Most of them are very nervous and shy. Then, over the years you see them develop. You see them mix and interact and change. They grow up in front of you. It's a wonderful experience and I feel very privileged to witness it.

Guiding is not about pushing religion down people's throats - packs don't even have to be affiliated to a church. The girls make a promise to their god. It's not necessarily the Church of England god, it's their god. Guiding is not about teaching religion, it's about nurturing youngsters so they become well-rounded, responsible citizens.

Guiding is basically great fun. But if you don't want to be a warranted Guider and go into uniform, that's fine. People can still contribute and help to keep packs going. Whatever their level of commitment, they will be made very welcome.

Personally, I would miss my girls too much if I gave it up. I'm going to stick with it at least until I get my 30-year badge. The girls find my advancing age quite amusing. One of them was talking about Atomic Kitten and I asked 'who on earth is Tommy Kitten?'. That kept them in fits for the whole meeting."

Louise Collins, 29, of Rawcliffe, York - Tawny Owl at 1st Clifton Moor and district commissioner for Lakeside:

"I was in the Brownies and I hated it, but that was probably because my mum was a leader. When I moved into the Guides, I loved it. I got to meet loads of new people and have all sorts of adventures. It was a great opportunity, but I left when I was 15. By that time I was more interested in boys, I'm afraid.

I went back to train as a Guider when I was 18 - boys were still interesting, but I missed guiding - and I've not looked back since.

We now have 24 girls and are completely full. You could double the number of units and you probably still wouldn't have enough places. We have lots of girls who want to be Brownies, but we just haven't got enough leaders.

I think it's as popular as ever with girls because it keeps up with the times. That's the special thing about guiding, it changes and adapts all the time. We're always looking for new ideas and fresh perspectives, and that includes the uniform. I don't think it would have been so popular if we hadn't got rid of the old Brownie uniform - those bobble hats and horrible belted dresses were impractical and unappealing. Now the uniform is much more of a mix and match affair.

There are lots of reasons why people are not volunteering. Most women are very busy and don't feel they can make much of a commitment, but even if they come in for one session a year, that would be something. Some people also don't think it's relevant to them. All I can say is that it's been relevant to me for the last 11 years, and I can't see any reason why it won't continue to be so for the next ten, 20 or 30 years.

Don't be fooled into thinking I do this for altruistic reasons though. I get a lot back from the girls. Sometimes I come home from work (Louise is an emergency planning officer with North Yorkshire County Council) and I just feel as if I can't be bothered with the Brownies. But then I get there and they make me feel energised and excited and ready for anything. Brownies make you feel really good about yourself."

Updated: 09:03 Tuesday, December 13, 2005