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9:00am Tuesday 22nd December 2009 in News
RETAILERS have led a national backlash against a York priest who advised society’s most vulnerable and needy people to shoplift.
Supermarket giant Asda claimed shoplifting was not robbing from the rich, but robbing from staff who had been working hard to secure their annual bonuses.
“Maybe Father Tim Jones could repeat his sermon at our York store and see what reaction he gets?” asked an Asda spokesman, adding: “He’s one psalm short of a sermon!”
The British Retail Consortium was equally critical, saying: “You’d expect a vicar to appreciate the difference between right and wrong. There are no excuses for stealing. Shoplifting is wrong and it’s not more or less wrong depending on who the victim is.”
Father Jones, parish priest of St Lawrence and St Hilda, today stood by his comments. The Archdeacon of York, the Venerable Richard Seed, said the Church of England did not advise anyone to shoplift, or break the law in any way. He said: “Father Tim Jones is raising important issues about the difficulties people face when benefits are not forthcoming, but shoplifting is not the way to overcome these difficulties. There are many organisations and charities working with people in need, and the Citizens’ Advice Bureau is a good first place to call.”
However, a diocesan spokeswoman said no disciplinary action would be taken against the priest.
York MP Hugh Bayley also criticised the priest, saying: “He’s a nice guy, who has championed the cause of the poor for many years, but I think he’s got it wrong.
“The reason he is wrong is that there are many people who are not in desperate circumstances who would wrongly take this as an invitation to steal.”
But Father Jones remained unrepentant and stood by his comments, which were made in a sermon to worshippers on the last Sunday before Christmas.
He said he did not believe shoplifting was right, but was the “least worst option” for some people in desperate situations, such as prisoners emerging from jail who had no benefits, for whom it was better to shoplift than to mug, burgle or turn to prostitution.
He asked people who had spent large sums of money on “rubbish” for Christmas presents not to judge the actions of society’s neediest people.
Within hours of Father Jones’s comments being exclusively reported in yesterday’s The Press, the story had appeared on the websites of various national news organisations including The Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph and The Times, as well as The Press’, and it was greeted with a storm of comments from readers, many outraged.
Pete Brown, North Yorkshire’s chief probation officer, said a prisoner’s release date was known in advance, and the service liked to have a prisoner released with a plan and their accommodation and benefits sorted. He said it would be “very rare” for anyone to fall through the net. But he pointed out the probation service was responsible only for supervising people who had been released from prison after being convicted and sentenced to 12 months or more.
A spokesman for the Department for Work and Pensions said: “We can help people find out what benefits they are entitled to and also help them make a claim.”
Beryl Holliday, of the Salvation Army, said she had heard people say “can you give them a food parcel because their benefits have not come through”.
“It does happen. But I most certainly cannot condone shoplifting. Come to the Salvation Army, and we can give people something to eat if they need it.”
Comments(55)
Henry Swanson
says...
9:22am Tue 22 Dec 09
JasBro
says...
9:29am Tue 22 Dec 09
Stevie D
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9:52am Tue 22 Dec 09
Within hours of Father Jones’s comments being exclusively reported in yesterday’s The Press, the story had appeared on the websites of various national news organisations including The Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph and The Times
Garrowby Turnoff
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10:10am Tue 22 Dec 09
old_geezer
says...
10:19am Tue 22 Dec 09
long distance depressive
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10:19am Tue 22 Dec 09
sambo1943
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10:21am Tue 22 Dec 09
Henry Swanson
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10:24am Tue 22 Dec 09
sambo1943 wrote:Idiot
why are the press & media giving this clown so much coverage ?they'd be better running a campaign to have him sacked and locked up for christmas before he dose any more damage to the community
sammy07
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10:26am Tue 22 Dec 09
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons
says...
10:55am Tue 22 Dec 09
Henry Swanson wrote:Agreed.
sambo1943 wrote:Idiot
why are the press & media giving this clown so much coverage ?they'd be better running a campaign to have him sacked and locked up for christmas before he dose any more damage to the community
Hieronymous
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11:02am Tue 22 Dec 09
sun seeker's
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11:02am Tue 22 Dec 09
Vauxhall Viva
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11:06am Tue 22 Dec 09
Zetkin
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11:09am Tue 22 Dec 09
Henry Swanson
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11:12am Tue 22 Dec 09
Hieronymous wrote:Did you???? I missed that.... also Im not a he
Long Distance: I don't know about St Lawrence, but many churches DO in fact provide shelter for the homeless at Christmas - and at other times too. Therefore Henry Swanson has a good point - even if I did challenge some of his definitions yesterday!
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons
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11:16am Tue 22 Dec 09
Get-a-grip
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11:19am Tue 22 Dec 09
However, a diocesan spokeswoman said no disciplinary action would be taken against the priest.
GoodDoc
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11:24am Tue 22 Dec 09
A taxpayer
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11:37am Tue 22 Dec 09
redr
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11:46am Tue 22 Dec 09
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons
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11:56am Tue 22 Dec 09
Henry Swanson
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11:57am Tue 22 Dec 09
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:Workhouses were quite a good idea actually... kept people out of mischief!
Are there no prisons, workhouses for the poor?
TooRad
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11:58am Tue 22 Dec 09
pedalling paul
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12:19pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Slasher Tez
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12:24pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Hieronymous
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12:27pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Prob
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12:37pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Thrasher
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12:38pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Henry Swanson
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12:59pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Hieronymous wrote:My parents were very forward thinking
Henry: My apologies - call me a bluff old traditionalist but Henrys, in my experience, are usually male! Perhaps there's a joke here which I'm just not seeing.
meme
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12:59pm Tue 22 Dec 09
TooRad
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1:11pm Tue 22 Dec 09
JOHNYBOY
says...
1:23pm Tue 22 Dec 09
dodgydave
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1:36pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Henry Swanson wrote:...I thought we had them, are they not called Asda, Tesco, Morrisons etc?
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:Workhouses were quite a good idea actually... kept people out of mischief!
Are there no prisons, workhouses for the poor?
Thrasher
says...
1:38pm Tue 22 Dec 09
A taxpayer
says...
2:30pm Tue 22 Dec 09
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons
says...
2:54pm Tue 22 Dec 09
fate
says...
4:09pm Tue 22 Dec 09
GoodDoc
says...
4:23pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Silver
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4:44pm Tue 22 Dec 09
redr
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5:00pm Tue 22 Dec 09
GailForSwins
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5:30pm Tue 22 Dec 09
pip007
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6:12pm Tue 22 Dec 09
leninwasright
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6:44pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Zetkin wrote:I also wonder how many have been inside a church in the past twelve months, or even bought a copy of the Big Issue. It seems that irony is as lost on the tabloids as it is on many of their readers.
I wonder how many people commenting have read the transcript of the sermon? ` Precious view, I'd guess. ` If I was so desperate that the choices seemed to be prostitution, suicide, or shoplifting, I know which one I'd choose. ` I'd get some food or, if caught, might get a night in the cells as well - much better than death or selling myself. ` God bless Fr Tim for telling it how it is!
leninwasright
says...
6:44pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Zetkin wrote:I also wonder how many have been inside a church in the past twelve months, or even bought a copy of the Big Issue. It seems that irony is as lost on the tabloids as it is on many of their readers.
I wonder how many people commenting have read the transcript of the sermon? ` Precious view, I'd guess. ` If I was so desperate that the choices seemed to be prostitution, suicide, or shoplifting, I know which one I'd choose. ` I'd get some food or, if caught, might get a night in the cells as well - much better than death or selling myself. ` God bless Fr Tim for telling it how it is!
pickle
says...
6:53pm Tue 22 Dec 09
long distance depressive wrote:No I think people have interpreted it wrongly as usual. In my opinion he wasn't advocating shoplifting but merely pointing out something that is real in our society, that there are people out there living in poverty whether they are homeless or living below the poverty line who are in desperate need of help. If I had to choose whether to go hungry or steal from one of the big supermarkets I know what I would do. The trouble is that most people close their minds to what these people go through and don't want to know. there but for the grace of god..
So he will be asking the local burglars to target his home, car thieves to take his car and homeless to sleep in his church over Xmas..just to be inclusive and support the have-nots!? Whatever his intentions he really got it wrong !
Seadog
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7:56pm Tue 22 Dec 09
myrtlescrote
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8:59pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Get-a-grip
says...
10:26pm Tue 22 Dec 09
David Jenkins, the then-Bishop of Durham, challenged received Christian orthodoxy with some controversial remarks about the virgin birth and the bodily resurrection of Jesus.He did that before he was installed at York Minster, and the same night it burned down! There might be a message in that, somewhere.
mataix121
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11:34pm Tue 22 Dec 09
fwmyork
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7:10am Wed 23 Dec 09
long distance depressive
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2:54pm Thu 24 Dec 09
Get-a-grip
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6:01pm Thu 24 Dec 09
What really gets me though is how the good ASDA throws away thousands of pounds worth of food per day and no one see's it as a crime.
dodgydave
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9:44am Sat 26 Dec 09
saltyseadog
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1:49pm Mon 28 Dec 09
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AdmiralNN says...
9:09am Tue 22 Dec 09