Asda’s fury over Father Tim Jones' shoplifting comments

York Press: OUTSPOKEN:  Father Tim Jones OUTSPOKEN: Father Tim Jones

RETAILERS have led a national backlash against a York priest who advised society’s most vulnerable and needy people to shoplift.

Supermarket giant Asda claimed shoplifting was not robbing from the rich, but robbing from staff who had been working hard to secure their annual bonuses.

“Maybe Father Tim Jones could repeat his sermon at our York store and see what reaction he gets?” asked an Asda spokesman, adding: “He’s one psalm short of a sermon!”

The British Retail Consortium was equally critical, saying: “You’d expect a vicar to appreciate the difference between right and wrong. There are no excuses for stealing. Shoplifting is wrong and it’s not more or less wrong depending on who the victim is.”

Father Jones, parish priest of St Lawrence and St Hilda, today stood by his comments. The Archdeacon of York, the Venerable Richard Seed, said the Church of England did not advise anyone to shoplift, or break the law in any way. He said: “Father Tim Jones is raising important issues about the difficulties people face when benefits are not forthcoming, but shoplifting is not the way to overcome these difficulties. There are many organisations and charities working with people in need, and the Citizens’ Advice Bureau is a good first place to call.”

However, a diocesan spokeswoman said no disciplinary action would be taken against the priest.

York MP Hugh Bayley also criticised the priest, saying: “He’s a nice guy, who has championed the cause of the poor for many years, but I think he’s got it wrong.

“The reason he is wrong is that there are many people who are not in desperate circumstances who would wrongly take this as an invitation to steal.”

But Father Jones remained unrepentant and stood by his comments, which were made in a sermon to worshippers on the last Sunday before Christmas.

He said he did not believe shoplifting was right, but was the “least worst option” for some people in desperate situations, such as prisoners emerging from jail who had no benefits, for whom it was better to shoplift than to mug, burgle or turn to prostitution.

He asked people who had spent large sums of money on “rubbish” for Christmas presents not to judge the actions of society’s neediest people.

Within hours of Father Jones’s comments being exclusively reported in yesterday’s The Press, the story had appeared on the websites of various national news organisations including The Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph and The Times, as well as The Press’, and it was greeted with a storm of comments from readers, many outraged.

Pete Brown, North Yorkshire’s chief probation officer, said a prisoner’s release date was known in advance, and the service liked to have a prisoner released with a plan and their accommodation and benefits sorted. He said it would be “very rare” for anyone to fall through the net. But he pointed out the probation service was responsible only for supervising people who had been released from prison after being convicted and sentenced to 12 months or more.

A spokesman for the Department for Work and Pensions said: “We can help people find out what benefits they are entitled to and also help them make a claim.”

Beryl Holliday, of the Salvation Army, said she had heard people say “can you give them a food parcel because their benefits have not come through”.

“It does happen. But I most certainly cannot condone shoplifting. Come to the Salvation Army, and we can give people something to eat if they need it.”

Comments (55)

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9:09am Tue 22 Dec 09

AdmiralNN says...

Now there is a surprise, what a div!
Now there is a surprise, what a div! AdmiralNN

9:22am Tue 22 Dec 09

Henry Swanson says...

As with the Salvation Army, why isnt the preist telling the needy to go to the church for help????
As with the Salvation Army, why isnt the preist telling the needy to go to the church for help???? Henry Swanson

9:29am Tue 22 Dec 09

JasBro says...

What a clever man. He's got the whole country discussing what's right and what's wrong, questioning society's attitude towards poverty, and even crime.

And at Christmas time too, who'd have thought it was possible?
What a clever man. He's got the whole country discussing what's right and what's wrong, questioning society's attitude towards poverty, and even crime. And at Christmas time too, who'd have thought it was possible? JasBro

9:52am Tue 22 Dec 09

Stevie D says...

Within hours of Father Jones’s comments being exclusively reported in yesterday’s The Press, the story had appeared on the websites of various national news organisations including The Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph and The Times

Not exactly "exclusive" then, is it.

Oh yes, I forgot the new definition of "exclusive", when used by a tabloid, meaning a story that is in all of them...
[quote]Within hours of Father Jones’s comments being exclusively reported in yesterday’s The Press, the story had appeared on the websites of various national news organisations including The Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph and The Times[/quote] Not exactly "exclusive" then, is it. Oh yes, I forgot the new definition of "exclusive", when used by a tabloid, meaning a story that is in all of them... Stevie D

10:10am Tue 22 Dec 09

Garrowby Turnoff says...

These days everyone wants to be famous...

Tim's had his prayers answered big time.

Simon Cowell isn't lurking in the background, is he?
These days everyone wants to be famous... Tim's had his prayers answered big time. Simon Cowell isn't lurking in the background, is he? Garrowby Turnoff

10:19am Tue 22 Dec 09

old_geezer says...

His motivation is clear (caritas), but he should have thought about how his remarks would be interpreted. The Utilitarians dealt with this question two centuries ago, when the issue was starker in that unlike now, some people did actually die from starvation. Even if the rich man would not miss what the poor man stole, outright condoning the theft would undermine the basis of social order that we all depend on. That does not preclude merciful treatment and a helping hand.

So, scrotes still beware!
His motivation is clear (caritas), but he should have thought about how his remarks would be interpreted. The Utilitarians dealt with this question two centuries ago, when the issue was starker in that unlike now, some people did actually die from starvation. Even if the rich man would not miss what the poor man stole, outright condoning the theft would undermine the basis of social order that we all depend on. That does not preclude merciful treatment and a helping hand. So, scrotes still beware! old_geezer

10:19am Tue 22 Dec 09

long distance depressive says...

So he will be asking the local burglars to target his home, car thieves to take his car and homeless to sleep in his church over Xmas..just to be inclusive and support the have-nots!?
Whatever his intentions he really got it wrong !
So he will be asking the local burglars to target his home, car thieves to take his car and homeless to sleep in his church over Xmas..just to be inclusive and support the have-nots!? Whatever his intentions he really got it wrong ! long distance depressive

10:21am Tue 22 Dec 09

sambo1943 says...

why are the press & media giving this clown so much coverage ?they'd be better running a campaign to have him sacked and locked up for christmas before he dose any more damage to the community
why are the press & media giving this clown so much coverage ?they'd be better running a campaign to have him sacked and locked up for christmas before he dose any more damage to the community sambo1943

10:24am Tue 22 Dec 09

Henry Swanson says...

sambo1943 wrote:
why are the press & media giving this clown so much coverage ?they'd be better running a campaign to have him sacked and locked up for christmas before he dose any more damage to the community
Idiot
[quote][p][bold]sambo1943[/bold] wrote: why are the press & media giving this clown so much coverage ?they'd be better running a campaign to have him sacked and locked up for christmas before he dose any more damage to the community[/p][/quote]Idiot Henry Swanson

10:26am Tue 22 Dec 09

sammy07 says...

haha the word at the bottom is free-lead does that mean everyone should go rob it from his church off the roof. JOKE>
Now seriously people.. wasnt this the same dude that went in stationary box last year and started chucking playboy stuff(ie pens pads etc) on the floor by way of a protest and refused to leave the stoor till they removed all the playboy stuff.He claimed it corrupted children as play boy is associated with soft p o rn ..
haha the word at the bottom is free-lead does that mean everyone should go rob it from his church off the roof. JOKE> Now seriously people.. wasnt this the same dude that went in stationary box last year and started chucking playboy stuff(ie pens pads etc) on the floor by way of a protest and refused to leave the stoor till they removed all the playboy stuff.He claimed it corrupted children as play boy is associated with soft p o rn .. sammy07

10:55am Tue 22 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

Henry Swanson wrote:
sambo1943 wrote:
why are the press & media giving this clown so much coverage ?they'd be better running a campaign to have him sacked and locked up for christmas before he dose any more damage to the community
Idiot
Agreed.
[quote][p][bold]Henry Swanson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sambo1943[/bold] wrote: why are the press & media giving this clown so much coverage ?they'd be better running a campaign to have him sacked and locked up for christmas before he dose any more damage to the community[/p][/quote]Idiot[/p][/quote]Agreed. The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

11:02am Tue 22 Dec 09

Hieronymous says...

Long Distance: I don't know about St Lawrence, but many churches DO in fact provide shelter for the homeless at Christmas - and at other times too. Therefore Henry Swanson has a good point - even if I did challenge some of his definitions yesterday!
Long Distance: I don't know about St Lawrence, but many churches DO in fact provide shelter for the homeless at Christmas - and at other times too. Therefore Henry Swanson has a good point - even if I did challenge some of his definitions yesterday! Hieronymous

11:02am Tue 22 Dec 09

sun seeker's says...

Sack him!
Sack him! sun seeker's

11:06am Tue 22 Dec 09

Vauxhall Viva says...

What is it with our representatives of the church in this country. If it isnt Tim Jones encouraging theft, then its Dr John lobbing himself out of a plane. Its like a religious competition to see who can get on a reality show first. If Tim Jones is so bothered about poverty, why doesnt he encourage his bosses to flog off some of the church gold, antiques or land and give the proceeds to the needy.
What is it with our representatives of the church in this country. If it isnt Tim Jones encouraging theft, then its Dr John lobbing himself out of a plane. Its like a religious competition to see who can get on a reality show first. If Tim Jones is so bothered about poverty, why doesnt he encourage his bosses to flog off some of the church gold, antiques or land and give the proceeds to the needy. Vauxhall Viva

11:09am Tue 22 Dec 09

Zetkin says...

I wonder how many people commenting have read the transcript of the sermon?
`
Precious view, I'd guess.
`
If I was so desperate that the choices seemed to be prostitution, suicide, or shoplifting, I know which one I'd choose.
`
I'd get some food or, if caught, might get a night in the cells as well - much better than death or selling myself.
`
God bless Fr Tim for telling it how it is!
I wonder how many people commenting have read the transcript of the sermon? ` Precious view, I'd guess. ` If I was so desperate that the choices seemed to be prostitution, suicide, or shoplifting, I know which one I'd choose. ` I'd get some food or, if caught, might get a night in the cells as well - much better than death or selling myself. ` God bless Fr Tim for telling it how it is! Zetkin

11:12am Tue 22 Dec 09

Henry Swanson says...

Hieronymous wrote:
Long Distance: I don't know about St Lawrence, but many churches DO in fact provide shelter for the homeless at Christmas - and at other times too. Therefore Henry Swanson has a good point - even if I did challenge some of his definitions yesterday!
Did you???? I missed that.... also Im not a he
[quote][p][bold]Hieronymous[/bold] wrote: Long Distance: I don't know about St Lawrence, but many churches DO in fact provide shelter for the homeless at Christmas - and at other times too. Therefore Henry Swanson has a good point - even if I did challenge some of his definitions yesterday![/p][/quote]Did you???? I missed that.... also Im not a he Henry Swanson

11:16am Tue 22 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

Promote him.
Promote him. The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

11:19am Tue 22 Dec 09

Get-a-grip says...

However, a diocesan spokeswoman said no disciplinary action would be taken against the priest.

Why not? Sentamu should be sacked for not taking action.
[quote] However, a diocesan spokeswoman said no disciplinary action would be taken against the priest.[/quote] Why not? Sentamu should be sacked for not taking action. Get-a-grip

11:24am Tue 22 Dec 09

GoodDoc says...

I don't quite know whether half of you people genuinely just don't understand what he said, or if perhaps you're all being deliberately thick just to have a bash at a Christian. Read the flipping sermon if you want to criticise it!

He's not saying go out and shoplift. He's not saying come to my house and take my car. He's not dumbing down any crimes. He's saying that if you have to shoplift to survive over Christmas, then it's better to take from the larger stores. Seriously, what's so hard to understand about that?

I'm not pious or a practicing Christian, but good on Father Tim for showing a bit of common sense, a real bit of so-called Christian ethics. Makes a change from the priests in their ivory towers judging people.
I don't quite know whether half of you people genuinely just don't understand what he said, or if perhaps you're all being deliberately thick just to have a bash at a Christian. Read the flipping sermon if you want to criticise it! He's not saying go out and shoplift. He's not saying come to my house and take my car. He's not dumbing down any crimes. He's saying that if you have to shoplift to survive over Christmas, then it's better to take from the larger stores. Seriously, what's so hard to understand about that? I'm not pious or a practicing Christian, but good on Father Tim for showing a bit of common sense, a real bit of so-called Christian ethics. Makes a change from the priests in their ivory towers judging people. GoodDoc

11:37am Tue 22 Dec 09

A taxpayer says...

It's interesting that of all the main supermarkets, the naffest, chaviest one spoke out. The others obviously make so much profit and have a good way of dealing with caught shoplifters (apparently one takes them round the back and puts them in a refrigerated truck for an hour then they get a good hiding and are sent on their way) there's no need to justify this with a press release.
It's interesting that of all the main supermarkets, the naffest, chaviest one spoke out. The others obviously make so much profit and have a good way of dealing with caught shoplifters (apparently one takes them round the back and puts them in a refrigerated truck for an hour then they get a good hiding and are sent on their way) there's no need to justify this with a press release. A taxpayer

11:46am Tue 22 Dec 09

redr says...

How rewarding that the Mail, Telegraph and Times should pick up on this story. It puts the press in a rather elite group of right wing rags. Anyhow Bishop Tim sounds good to me, it’s almost enough to make me go to church.
How rewarding that the Mail, Telegraph and Times should pick up on this story. It puts the press in a rather elite group of right wing rags. Anyhow Bishop Tim sounds good to me, it’s almost enough to make me go to church. redr

11:56am Tue 22 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

Are there no prisons, workhouses for the poor?
Are there no prisons, workhouses for the poor? The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

11:57am Tue 22 Dec 09

Henry Swanson says...

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:
Are there no prisons, workhouses for the poor?
Workhouses were quite a good idea actually... kept people out of mischief!
[quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: Are there no prisons, workhouses for the poor?[/p][/quote]Workhouses were quite a good idea actually... kept people out of mischief! Henry Swanson

11:58am Tue 22 Dec 09

TooRad says...

Yeah, great, nice of Asda to pipe up all aggrieved and everything. Poor poor Asda.
Owned by Wal-mart one of, if not *the* biggest global coporations going full of the tricks that big nasty corporations employ.
Hypocrites!
Yeah, great, nice of Asda to pipe up all aggrieved and everything. Poor poor Asda. Owned by Wal-mart one of, if not *the* biggest global coporations going full of the tricks that big nasty corporations employ. Hypocrites! TooRad

12:19pm Tue 22 Dec 09

pedalling paul says...

Again I recall a department store sign. "God helps those who help themselves. We prosecute."
I think it is neccessary for commentators to read the full transcript of the sermon, to put Fr. Tim's remarks into full context.
Again I recall a department store sign. "God helps those who help themselves. We prosecute." I think it is neccessary for commentators to read the full transcript of the sermon, to put Fr. Tim's remarks into full context. pedalling paul

12:24pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Slasher Tez says...

TooRad, what makes Asda/Wal-mart hypocrites? Cut throat in their dealings with supplliers they may be but the suppliers have a choice, stores do not have a choice to ban theiving scum before they have stolen. Even when they do we consumers end up paying extra for the security to allow this to happen.
TooRad, what makes Asda/Wal-mart hypocrites? Cut throat in their dealings with supplliers they may be but the suppliers have a choice, stores do not have a choice to ban theiving scum before they have stolen. Even when they do we consumers end up paying extra for the security to allow this to happen. Slasher Tez

12:27pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Hieronymous says...

Henry: My apologies - call me a bluff old traditionalist but Henrys, in my experience, are usually male! Perhaps there's a joke here which I'm just not seeing.
Henry: My apologies - call me a bluff old traditionalist but Henrys, in my experience, are usually male! Perhaps there's a joke here which I'm just not seeing. Hieronymous

12:37pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Prob says...

Bit lazy reporting to be honest.
.
Press: "What do you think of shoplifting, Asda?"
.
Asda: "Love it. Gives our security guards something to do"
.
Why don't you ask some more searching questions, such as asking a duck if it quacks or counting how many people at York council are right-handed
Bit lazy reporting to be honest. . Press: "What do you think of shoplifting, Asda?" . Asda: "Love it. Gives our security guards something to do" . Why don't you ask some more searching questions, such as asking a duck if it quacks or counting how many people at York council are right-handed Prob

12:38pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Thrasher says...

Far from being criticised, Tim Jones should be praised for bringing such an important topic to the forefront of our minds. Like others have pointed out - the majority of bandwagon jumping critics haven't read the sermon, or even gone beyond the sensationalist headlines before wading in with their moral high ground size 10s.

Hands up who would prefer a desperate, starving man to steal some food from Tesco or to break into their home during the night or mug their grandmother as she collects her pension? I know what I'd prefer and, as Tim rightly says, it is the preferred option when there is so little help available to those in dire need.

As Tim said on BBC News this morning, to all those who criticised his words yet have donated nothing to the poor themselves, shame on you!
Far from being criticised, Tim Jones should be praised for bringing such an important topic to the forefront of our minds. Like others have pointed out - the majority of bandwagon jumping critics haven't read the sermon, or even gone beyond the sensationalist headlines before wading in with their moral high ground size 10s. Hands up who would prefer a desperate, starving man to steal some food from Tesco or to break into their home during the night or mug their grandmother as she collects her pension? I know what I'd prefer and, as Tim rightly says, it is the preferred option when there is so little help available to those in dire need. As Tim said on BBC News this morning, to all those who criticised his words yet have donated nothing to the poor themselves, shame on you! Thrasher

12:59pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Henry Swanson says...

Hieronymous wrote:
Henry: My apologies - call me a bluff old traditionalist but Henrys, in my experience, are usually male! Perhaps there's a joke here which I'm just not seeing.
My parents were very forward thinking
[quote][p][bold]Hieronymous[/bold] wrote: Henry: My apologies - call me a bluff old traditionalist but Henrys, in my experience, are usually male! Perhaps there's a joke here which I'm just not seeing.[/p][/quote]My parents were very forward thinking Henry Swanson

12:59pm Tue 22 Dec 09

meme says...

why not pop into his church and pinch the collection box?
I suspect he would be very unhappy!But would be sympathetic as its needed!!!!!!!!!!!
why not pop into his church and pinch the collection box? I suspect he would be very unhappy!But would be sympathetic as its needed!!!!!!!!!!! meme

1:11pm Tue 22 Dec 09

TooRad says...

Slasher - you answered your own question.
.
Thrasher - I hate to agree with someone who names themselves after Neil Young songs because you have a history of talking deliberate cr@p. However, in this instance well said.
.
Crasher - nah I just made the last one up.
Slasher - you answered your own question. . Thrasher - I hate to agree with someone who names themselves after Neil Young songs because you have a history of talking deliberate cr@p. However, in this instance well said. . Crasher - nah I just made the last one up. TooRad

1:23pm Tue 22 Dec 09

JOHNYBOY says...

A completely irresponsible comment for someone like a vicar to make - no doubt he wont have any quarms in allowing people to help themselves to the church silver or invite them into his home to tak whatever they want.

I always understood the money we give to churches and charity was used to help those who need it, so churches and organisations like salvation army were able to help the needy on our - this vicar clearly doesnt feel its the job of the church to help those in need as he is more or less saying go elsewhere himself so he is no better than those he is accusing!!

Many of us do give - but the vicar has to remember we dont have bottomless wallets ourselves....even though we do give.....
A completely irresponsible comment for someone like a vicar to make - no doubt he wont have any quarms in allowing people to help themselves to the church silver or invite them into his home to tak whatever they want. I always understood the money we give to churches and charity was used to help those who need it, so churches and organisations like salvation army were able to help the needy on our - this vicar clearly doesnt feel its the job of the church to help those in need as he is more or less saying go elsewhere himself so he is no better than those he is accusing!! Many of us do give - but the vicar has to remember we dont have bottomless wallets ourselves....even though we do give..... JOHNYBOY

1:36pm Tue 22 Dec 09

dodgydave says...

Henry Swanson wrote:
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:
Are there no prisons, workhouses for the poor?
Workhouses were quite a good idea actually... kept people out of mischief!
...I thought we had them, are they not called Asda, Tesco, Morrisons etc?
[quote][p][bold]Henry Swanson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: Are there no prisons, workhouses for the poor?[/p][/quote]Workhouses were quite a good idea actually... kept people out of mischief![/p][/quote]...I thought we had them, are they not called Asda, Tesco, Morrisons etc? dodgydave

1:38pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Thrasher says...

Very good dodgydave!
Very good dodgydave! Thrasher

2:30pm Tue 22 Dec 09

A taxpayer says...

Organised shoplifters are planning it right on the internet chatrooms. They'll outnumber the store detectives and swamp the police so a few will get caught with small value items, while the others get away with the high value. God Bless technology at Christmas, and a Debt Free New Year.
Organised shoplifters are planning it right on the internet chatrooms. They'll outnumber the store detectives and swamp the police so a few will get caught with small value items, while the others get away with the high value. God Bless technology at Christmas, and a Debt Free New Year. A taxpayer

2:54pm Tue 22 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

Stuff the supermarkets fury! Lets rob from the rich and help the poor!
Stuff the supermarkets fury! Lets rob from the rich and help the poor! The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

4:09pm Tue 22 Dec 09

fate says...

Perhaps the homeless and needy can also steal from the wealthier organisations in England like mmmm let me think one of the wealthiest organisations in England .... oh yes.. The Church!
Surely its time for St Lawrence and St Hilda's to keep the heating on and the doors open all through the winter and maybe provide sleeping bags and food for the homeless? Then take a look around the usual congregation and see the middle class parish council with their Mercedes or BMWs and wonder what's on his own door step first.
Perhaps the homeless and needy can also steal from the wealthier organisations in England like mmmm let me think one of the wealthiest organisations in England .... oh yes.. The Church! Surely its time for St Lawrence and St Hilda's to keep the heating on and the doors open all through the winter and maybe provide sleeping bags and food for the homeless? Then take a look around the usual congregation and see the middle class parish council with their Mercedes or BMWs and wonder what's on his own door step first. fate

4:23pm Tue 22 Dec 09

GoodDoc says...

Johnyboy and Meme, seriously read the sermon if you're able to. Ask your mum to help you with any tricky words. You'll notice that he is saying to people who intend to shoplift to survive that they should target mass, national chain stores. So saying it's the same as stealing silver from a church is just absolutely ridiculous. It baffles me to see plainly stupid people having a go at someone for something they simply haven't understood. And FYI Father Tim does a lot for charity, probably too much!
Johnyboy and Meme, seriously read the sermon if you're able to. Ask your mum to help you with any tricky words. You'll notice that he is saying to people who intend to shoplift to survive that they should target mass, national chain stores. So saying it's the same as stealing silver from a church is just absolutely ridiculous. It baffles me to see plainly stupid people having a go at someone for something they simply haven't understood. And FYI Father Tim does a lot for charity, probably too much! GoodDoc

4:44pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Silver says...

Having read the entire transcribe of his sermon. He does have a point, also whilst I disagree with his viewpoint mainly as there are many opportunities to help the needy, there are those who slip through and become the worse off like his ex con that the Father mentions. But he has got us all looking at the debate with interest so he should be applauded for getting us all to do that especially as at this time of year most of us are only thinking of our nearest and dearest. Also we should be grateful that this time he is not going into stationary shops and throwing tantrums like a toddler so in a way it's progress....
Having read the entire transcribe of his sermon. He does have a point, also whilst I disagree with his viewpoint mainly as there are many opportunities to help the needy, there are those who slip through and become the worse off like his ex con that the Father mentions. But he has got us all looking at the debate with interest so he should be applauded for getting us all to do that especially as at this time of year most of us are only thinking of our nearest and dearest. Also we should be grateful that this time he is not going into stationary shops and throwing tantrums like a toddler so in a way it's progress.... Silver

5:00pm Tue 22 Dec 09

redr says...

I was totally in favour of his protest against playboy too. Another odious brand built on exploitation desperate to appeal to the young.
I was totally in favour of his protest against playboy too. Another odious brand built on exploitation desperate to appeal to the young. redr

5:30pm Tue 22 Dec 09

GailForSwins says...

Apart from a few decent exceptions, it's sad to see the same smug, self righteous people as usual condemning someone from the comfort and warmth of their armchairs instead of searching their souls to see whether they wouldn't actually contemplate shoplifting if it was that or literally going hungry due to the massively inadequate resources for the very poorest in society...

I'm not talking about the benefit cheats & scroungers who could actually work, or those that think SKY+ is a god given right for the unemployed - it's those that fall in that horrid gap where the system fails them regardless...

Think on as you tap away with easy words without any recourse before heading into that comfy well heated lounge of yours...
Apart from a few decent exceptions, it's sad to see the same smug, self righteous people as usual condemning someone from the comfort and warmth of their armchairs instead of searching their souls to see whether they wouldn't actually contemplate shoplifting if it was that or literally going hungry due to the massively inadequate resources for the very poorest in society... I'm not talking about the benefit cheats & scroungers who could actually work, or those that think SKY+ is a god given right for the unemployed - it's those that fall in that horrid gap where the system fails them regardless... Think on as you tap away with easy words without any recourse before heading into that comfy well heated lounge of yours... GailForSwins

6:12pm Tue 22 Dec 09

pip007 says...

Mr. Jones just made the CNN TV news in America!
Mr. Jones just made the CNN TV news in America! pip007

6:44pm Tue 22 Dec 09

leninwasright says...

Zetkin wrote:
I wonder how many people commenting have read the transcript of the sermon? ` Precious view, I'd guess. ` If I was so desperate that the choices seemed to be prostitution, suicide, or shoplifting, I know which one I'd choose. ` I'd get some food or, if caught, might get a night in the cells as well - much better than death or selling myself. ` God bless Fr Tim for telling it how it is!
I also wonder how many have been inside a church in the past twelve months, or even bought a copy of the Big Issue. It seems that irony is as lost on the tabloids as it is on many of their readers.
[quote][p][bold]Zetkin[/bold] wrote: I wonder how many people commenting have read the transcript of the sermon? ` Precious view, I'd guess. ` If I was so desperate that the choices seemed to be prostitution, suicide, or shoplifting, I know which one I'd choose. ` I'd get some food or, if caught, might get a night in the cells as well - much better than death or selling myself. ` God bless Fr Tim for telling it how it is![/p][/quote]I also wonder how many have been inside a church in the past twelve months, or even bought a copy of the Big Issue. It seems that irony is as lost on the tabloids as it is on many of their readers. leninwasright

6:44pm Tue 22 Dec 09

leninwasright says...

Zetkin wrote:
I wonder how many people commenting have read the transcript of the sermon? ` Precious view, I'd guess. ` If I was so desperate that the choices seemed to be prostitution, suicide, or shoplifting, I know which one I'd choose. ` I'd get some food or, if caught, might get a night in the cells as well - much better than death or selling myself. ` God bless Fr Tim for telling it how it is!
I also wonder how many have been inside a church in the past twelve months, or even bought a copy of the Big Issue. It seems that irony is as lost on the tabloids as it is on many of their readers.
[quote][p][bold]Zetkin[/bold] wrote: I wonder how many people commenting have read the transcript of the sermon? ` Precious view, I'd guess. ` If I was so desperate that the choices seemed to be prostitution, suicide, or shoplifting, I know which one I'd choose. ` I'd get some food or, if caught, might get a night in the cells as well - much better than death or selling myself. ` God bless Fr Tim for telling it how it is![/p][/quote]I also wonder how many have been inside a church in the past twelve months, or even bought a copy of the Big Issue. It seems that irony is as lost on the tabloids as it is on many of their readers. leninwasright

6:53pm Tue 22 Dec 09

pickle says...

long distance depressive wrote:
So he will be asking the local burglars to target his home, car thieves to take his car and homeless to sleep in his church over Xmas..just to be inclusive and support the have-nots!? Whatever his intentions he really got it wrong !
No I think people have interpreted it wrongly as usual. In my opinion he wasn't advocating shoplifting but merely pointing out something that is real in our society, that there are people out there living in poverty whether they are homeless or living below the poverty line who are in desperate need of help. If I had to choose whether to go hungry or steal from one of the big supermarkets I know what I would do. The trouble is that most people close their minds to what these people go through and don't want to know. there but for the grace of god..
[quote][p][bold]long distance depressive[/bold] wrote: So he will be asking the local burglars to target his home, car thieves to take his car and homeless to sleep in his church over Xmas..just to be inclusive and support the have-nots!? Whatever his intentions he really got it wrong ![/p][/quote]No I think people have interpreted it wrongly as usual. In my opinion he wasn't advocating shoplifting but merely pointing out something that is real in our society, that there are people out there living in poverty whether they are homeless or living below the poverty line who are in desperate need of help. If I had to choose whether to go hungry or steal from one of the big supermarkets I know what I would do. The trouble is that most people close their minds to what these people go through and don't want to know. there but for the grace of god.. pickle

7:56pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Seadog says...

A quarter of a century ago, David Jenkins, the then-Bishop of Durham, challenged received Christian orthodoxy with some controversial remarks about the virgin birth and the bodily resurrection of Jesus. Whilst I didn't personally agree with his "take" on those particular issues (though supporting him fully on certain others) I was delighted by the way they engendered serious theological debate at every level of society from the hallowed halls of academe to my local boozer in Selby! I feel much the same way now. It is indeed hard to reconcile "Father Tim's" statement with the Ten Commandments, but he has certainly got people talking about really serious ethical matters across the broad spectrum of belief/faith/philoso
phy in a way perhaps unseen since the Jenkins hiatus ... or even John Robinson's "Honest to God" debate in the early sixties!

Like Hieronymous (comments passim) I am encouraged by the frequency of intelligent comments (both pro and anti) which have emerged this time. It is truly gratifying that there are still people out there who are capable of disagreeing profoundly without resorting to personal insult. Keep it up, guys!
A quarter of a century ago, David Jenkins, the then-Bishop of Durham, challenged received Christian orthodoxy with some controversial remarks about the virgin birth and the bodily resurrection of Jesus. Whilst I didn't personally agree with his "take" on those particular issues (though supporting him fully on certain others) I was delighted by the way they engendered serious theological debate at every level of society from the hallowed halls of academe to my local boozer in Selby! I feel much the same way now. It is indeed hard to reconcile "Father Tim's" statement with the Ten Commandments, but he has certainly got people talking about really serious ethical matters across the broad spectrum of belief/faith/philoso phy in a way perhaps unseen since the Jenkins hiatus ... or even John Robinson's "Honest to God" debate in the early sixties! Like Hieronymous (comments passim) I am encouraged by the frequency of intelligent comments (both pro and anti) which have emerged this time. It is truly gratifying that there are still people out there who are capable of disagreeing profoundly without resorting to personal insult. Keep it up, guys! Seadog

8:59pm Tue 22 Dec 09

myrtlescrote says...

They'll probably nail him for his beliefs by Easter!
They'll probably nail him for his beliefs by Easter! myrtlescrote

10:26pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Get-a-grip says...

David Jenkins, the then-Bishop of Durham, challenged received Christian orthodoxy with some controversial remarks about the virgin birth and the bodily resurrection of Jesus.
He did that before he was installed at York Minster, and the same night it burned down! There might be a message in that, somewhere.
[quote] David Jenkins, the then-Bishop of Durham, challenged received Christian orthodoxy with some controversial remarks about the virgin birth and the bodily resurrection of Jesus. [/quote] He did that before he was installed at York Minster, and the same night it burned down! There might be a message in that, somewhere. Get-a-grip

11:34pm Tue 22 Dec 09

mataix121 says...

Thankfully we have a priest who is willing to stand up and share his thought's on our society. I like the whole 'Morality and Law' debate it sparks emotion, while also letting uneducated fools have their say!! What really gets me though is how the good ASDA throws away thousands of pounds worth of food per day and no one see's it as a crime. Then we have the probation service who know where all their offenders are and have made a plan??? so whats all the fuss about overcrowding and prisoners miles from home?? Maybe they have made these plans over the phone?? Hmm Advise, Assist and Befriend used to be thier ethos, now it could be lyer, lyer, lyer as i pick so many of these people up in my work without a plan, a penny, or a home. Tim jones was making a point and a crucial one at that, however due to the moral society that we live in, he needs sacking. Politicians, Bankers and Supermarket expenses springs to mind when I think of crimes, but who am i but a mere working class socialist who oviously doesnt understand poverty, crime or sociual functions.
Thankfully we have a priest who is willing to stand up and share his thought's on our society. I like the whole 'Morality and Law' debate it sparks emotion, while also letting uneducated fools have their say!! What really gets me though is how the good ASDA throws away thousands of pounds worth of food per day and no one see's it as a crime. Then we have the probation service who know where all their offenders are and have made a plan??? so whats all the fuss about overcrowding and prisoners miles from home?? Maybe they have made these plans over the phone?? Hmm Advise, Assist and Befriend used to be thier ethos, now it could be lyer, lyer, lyer as i pick so many of these people up in my work without a plan, a penny, or a home. Tim jones was making a point and a crucial one at that, however due to the moral society that we live in, he needs sacking. Politicians, Bankers and Supermarket expenses springs to mind when I think of crimes, but who am i but a mere working class socialist who oviously doesnt understand poverty, crime or sociual functions. mataix121

7:10am Wed 23 Dec 09

fwmyork says...

I notice that it is every one else who has let the ex-prisoner down: the social worker, the probation officer, the benefits agency, the family, society. Who else might help them? The vicar, a local charity, the Salvation Army. Excuse me vicar, but aren’t we missing the most obvious source… the church, the body of Christ, the good people of St Lawrence and St Hilda’s?
I notice that it is every one else who has let the ex-prisoner down: the social worker, the probation officer, the benefits agency, the family, society. Who else might help them? The vicar, a local charity, the Salvation Army. Excuse me vicar, but aren’t we missing the most obvious source… the church, the body of Christ, the good people of St Lawrence and St Hilda’s? fwmyork

2:54pm Thu 24 Dec 09

long distance depressive says...

I can't accept that all shoplifters are regarded by his supporters as poor and helpless. Many are in fact thieving toe -rags who will merely be strangely satisfied to read some of the drivel on here. I am sure that most normal minded readers accept that the genuinely needy need help, going out stealing is not the answer whether from private individuals nor the large firms. Next thing you know the lazy gits who 'borrow' supermarket trolleys and dump them will be seen as using their initiative and being green for not carrying their shopping home on the bus like others have to.
I can't accept that all shoplifters are regarded by his supporters as poor and helpless. Many are in fact thieving toe -rags who will merely be strangely satisfied to read some of the drivel on here. I am sure that most normal minded readers accept that the genuinely needy need help, going out stealing is not the answer whether from private individuals nor the large firms. Next thing you know the lazy gits who 'borrow' supermarket trolleys and dump them will be seen as using their initiative and being green for not carrying their shopping home on the bus like others have to. long distance depressive

6:01pm Thu 24 Dec 09

Get-a-grip says...

What really gets me though is how the good ASDA throws away thousands of pounds worth of food per day and no one see's it as a crime.

Asda and other supermarkets have no choice, blame EU and New Labour health and safety laws.
[quote] What really gets me though is how the good ASDA throws away thousands of pounds worth of food per day and no one see's it as a crime.[/quote] Asda and other supermarkets have no choice, blame EU and New Labour health and safety laws. Get-a-grip

9:44am Sat 26 Dec 09

dodgydave says...

Is it Dermot O'Dreary? Looks like he has a new career now! ..He always was a God Botherer! Good on him! Praise Be!
Is it Dermot O'Dreary? Looks like he has a new career now! ..He always was a God Botherer! Good on him! Praise Be! dodgydave

1:49pm Mon 28 Dec 09

saltyseadog says...

Father Tim Jones is a BUFFOON and an absolute AFFRONT to all the law abiding citizens of the City of York and its environs!
I would like to have seen his response if someone had suggested, " Because the church is a very very wealthy organisation it is alright to steal lead from churches and cash it in at scrap merchants, also there is less chance of getting caught on camera, so go on, I am sure the church will understand and have sympathy with your actions"
Father Tim Jones is a BUFFOON and an absolute AFFRONT to all the law abiding citizens of the City of York and its environs! I would like to have seen his response if someone had suggested, " Because the church is a very very wealthy organisation it is alright to steal lead from churches and cash it in at scrap merchants, also there is less chance of getting caught on camera, so go on, I am sure the church will understand and have sympathy with your actions" saltyseadog

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