'It’s okay to shoplift' says Father Tim Jones, parish priest of St Lawrence and St Hilda

York Press: Father Tim Jones Father Tim Jones

WORSHIPPERS at one York church got a shock when their parish priest used the last Sunday before Christmas to advocate shoplifting.

Father Tim Jones, parish priest of St Lawrence and St Hilda, broke off from the traditional Nativity story yesterday, and said stealing from large national chains was sometimes the best option many vulnerable people had.

He told the congregation: “My advice, as a Christian priest, is to shoplift. I do not offer such advice because I think that stealing is a good thing, or because I think it is harmless, for it is neither.

“I would ask that they do not steal from small, family businesses, but from large national businesses, knowing that the costs are ultimately passed on to the rest of us in the form of higher prices. I would ask them not to take any more than they need, for any longer than they need.”

He said he offered the advice “with a heavy heart”, and wished society would recognise that bureaucratic ineptitude and systemic delay had created an “invitation and incentive to crime for people struggling to cope”.

Father Jones said society had failed many needy people, and said it was far better that they shoplift than turn to more degrading or violent options such as prostitution, mugging or burglary. He cited an example of an ex-prisoner who had received less than £100, including a crisis loan, in the six weeks since his release.

He said his advice did not contradict the Bible’s eighth commandment, not to steal, saying God’s love for the poor and despised outweighed the property rights of the rich.

He added: “Let my words not be misrepresented as a simplistic call for people to shoplift. The observation that shoplifting is the best option that some people are left with is a grim indictment of who we are. “Rather, this is a call for our society no longer to treat its most vulnerable people with indifference and contempt.”

He said providing “inadequate or clumsy social support” was “monumental, catastrophic folly”.

Vale of York MP Anne McIntosh, who has campaigned in Parliament for stronger sentences for shoplifters, said there had been an “over-commercialisation” of Christmas, putting more pressure on people to spend, but said: “I cannot condone inciting anyone to commit a criminal offence.”

She said shoplifting was “a crime against the whole local community and society”.

A North Yorkshire Police spokesman said: “First and foremost, shoplifting is a criminal offence and to justify this course of action under any circumstances is highly irresponsible.

“Turning or returning to crime will only make matters worse, that is a guarantee.”

He said the force recognised that some people found themselves in difficult circumstances but said support was readily available and must be sought.


* Full transcript of the sermon given by Father Tim Jones>>


Clergyman caused a stir over logos

THIS isn’t the first time Father Tim Jones has courted controversy and caused a stir in the retail sector.

In May last year, he walked into Stationery Box in High Ousegate and started throwing items bearing the Playboy logo on to the floor.

He said he was protesting over the use of the porn empire’s logo on products aimed at children.

He said the shop displayed Playboy products alongside Mickey Mouse and Winnie The Pooh stationery. Father Jones encouraged shoppers in the store to sign a petition and staff removed the items from sale, while they reviewed their policy.

• Support is available to people in need, said City of York Council leader Andrew Waller.

“We do provide support, through our own services and also the Citizens’ Advice Bureau, the Credit Union and a whole host of agencies there to help the most vulnerable,” he said.

He said times were tough for many people but said the council was doing all it could to keep people on the right side of the law.

Comments (93)

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9:43am Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same.

I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though!
If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same. I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though! The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

10:01am Mon 21 Dec 09

nobodyknowswhoiam says...

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:
If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same. I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though!
could I ask you what you took?
[quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same. I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though![/p][/quote]could I ask you what you took? nobodyknowswhoiam

10:10am Mon 21 Dec 09

Saywhat says...

Shoplifting will be on the increase this week then, after the comment by Father Tim Jones.
Upon arrest, the culprit will quote Tim's words and expect to get away with.
It's laughable. What is the world coming too.
Shoplifting will be on the increase this week then, after the comment by Father Tim Jones. Upon arrest, the culprit will quote Tim's words and expect to get away with. It's laughable. What is the world coming too. Saywhat

10:16am Mon 21 Dec 09

moleculeman says...

It does clearly and directly contradict the 8th commandment, but who doesn't expect hypocrisy from the church?
It does clearly and directly contradict the 8th commandment, but who doesn't expect hypocrisy from the church? moleculeman

10:25am Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

nobodyknowswhoiam wrote:
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:
If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same. I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though!
could I ask you what you took?
Nothing, honest! But I would if I had too.
[quote][p][bold]nobodyknowswhoiam[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same. I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though![/p][/quote]could I ask you what you took?[/p][/quote]Nothing, honest! But I would if I had too. The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

10:27am Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

I'm glad to see Paula-T's comments have been removed. Inconsiderate idiot!
I'm glad to see Paula-T's comments have been removed. Inconsiderate idiot! The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

10:32am Mon 21 Dec 09

Soothsayer17 says...

Fair play to Father Tim for getting his mug into the Press again but he's walking into a minefield on this one:
.
Where will he stand if someone thieves some Playboy bedsheets from their local supermarket?
Fair play to Father Tim for getting his mug into the Press again but he's walking into a minefield on this one: . Where will he stand if someone thieves some Playboy bedsheets from their local supermarket? Soothsayer17

10:37am Mon 21 Dec 09

AngryandFrustrated says...

This priest is a disgrace to the Catholic church and should be sacked. His comments should be rammed down his throat until he gags on them!

It is comments like this from so called "leaders" of our community that give rise to the dumbing down of various offences. I have no problem helping out the needy. However, they also have to help themselves out to some degree. I used to work in this area and to be blunt, I do not see why the likes of me and you should pay more for our goods, due to shoplifting costs being passed on, because some addict wants to shoot smack into his or her arm.

There are some very needy people out there - however, a lot of needy people do not feel the urge to go out, break the law and make other people pay. Having worked with addicts, I know how needy they can be. However, a significant proportion of them do not want to get off drink or drugs - they only say they do because it looks good in court when you come up for sentencing.

Maybe someone should go and steal the collection box from this Priest's church. No doubt it will be stolen by a "needy" person who should be forgiven by the flock. However, methinks a large proportion of the flock will think theft is theft, whether or not it is from a national chain of shops or a charity box from a church.
This priest is a disgrace to the Catholic church and should be sacked. His comments should be rammed down his throat until he gags on them! It is comments like this from so called "leaders" of our community that give rise to the dumbing down of various offences. I have no problem helping out the needy. However, they also have to help themselves out to some degree. I used to work in this area and to be blunt, I do not see why the likes of me and you should pay more for our goods, due to shoplifting costs being passed on, because some addict wants to shoot smack into his or her arm. There are some very needy people out there - however, a lot of needy people do not feel the urge to go out, break the law and make other people pay. Having worked with addicts, I know how needy they can be. However, a significant proportion of them do not want to get off drink or drugs - they only say they do because it looks good in court when you come up for sentencing. Maybe someone should go and steal the collection box from this Priest's church. No doubt it will be stolen by a "needy" person who should be forgiven by the flock. However, methinks a large proportion of the flock will think theft is theft, whether or not it is from a national chain of shops or a charity box from a church. AngryandFrustrated

10:59am Mon 21 Dec 09

gerry1962 says...

He's CofE, not Catholic.
He's CofE, not Catholic. gerry1962

11:00am Mon 21 Dec 09

WA says...

Father Jones is not a priest of the Roman Catholic Church. I am against his apparent encouragement to shoplift in any store, large or small.
Father Jones is not a priest of the Roman Catholic Church. I am against his apparent encouragement to shoplift in any store, large or small. WA

11:03am Mon 21 Dec 09

Vauxhall Viva says...

He is not really saying he wants people to, or that it is ok to steal, he is saying, if you are going to steal, do it from a massive company who can afford it, and not from small businesses or individuals.
He is not really saying he wants people to, or that it is ok to steal, he is saying, if you are going to steal, do it from a massive company who can afford it, and not from small businesses or individuals. Vauxhall Viva

11:04am Mon 21 Dec 09

yorkandproud says...

AngryandFrustrated wrote:
This priest is a disgrace to the Catholic church and should be sacked. His comments should be rammed down his throat until he gags on them! It is comments like this from so called "leaders" of our community that give rise to the dumbing down of various offences. I have no problem helping out the needy. However, they also have to help themselves out to some degree. I used to work in this area and to be blunt, I do not see why the likes of me and you should pay more for our goods, due to shoplifting costs being passed on, because some addict wants to shoot smack into his or her arm. There are some very needy people out there - however, a lot of needy people do not feel the urge to go out, break the law and make other people pay. Having worked with addicts, I know how needy they can be. However, a significant proportion of them do not want to get off drink or drugs - they only say they do because it looks good in court when you come up for sentencing. Maybe someone should go and steal the collection box from this Priest's church. No doubt it will be stolen by a "needy" person who should be forgiven by the flock. However, methinks a large proportion of the flock will think theft is theft, whether or not it is from a national chain of shops or a charity box from a church.
Firstly, this man is not a catholic priest, he is the vicar of St Laurences in Lawrence Street. Why he insists in calling himself Father Tim appears to come from years he spent in the USA.
He seems to be full of strange ideas, and is currently doing a fine job alienating himself from the older members of the congregation at St Laurences with his ideas. Examples of which are having the pews all removed from the church and having seats put in. Also allowing children to run around during certain services. He perhaps looks upon himself as "Modern", but several long standing parishioners are now attending other churches. The bishop needs to have a word with this loose cannon
[quote][p][bold]AngryandFrustrated[/bold] wrote: This priest is a disgrace to the Catholic church and should be sacked. His comments should be rammed down his throat until he gags on them! It is comments like this from so called "leaders" of our community that give rise to the dumbing down of various offences. I have no problem helping out the needy. However, they also have to help themselves out to some degree. I used to work in this area and to be blunt, I do not see why the likes of me and you should pay more for our goods, due to shoplifting costs being passed on, because some addict wants to shoot smack into his or her arm. There are some very needy people out there - however, a lot of needy people do not feel the urge to go out, break the law and make other people pay. Having worked with addicts, I know how needy they can be. However, a significant proportion of them do not want to get off drink or drugs - they only say they do because it looks good in court when you come up for sentencing. Maybe someone should go and steal the collection box from this Priest's church. No doubt it will be stolen by a "needy" person who should be forgiven by the flock. However, methinks a large proportion of the flock will think theft is theft, whether or not it is from a national chain of shops or a charity box from a church.[/p][/quote]Firstly, this man is not a catholic priest, he is the vicar of St Laurences in Lawrence Street. Why he insists in calling himself Father Tim appears to come from years he spent in the USA. He seems to be full of strange ideas, and is currently doing a fine job alienating himself from the older members of the congregation at St Laurences with his ideas. Examples of which are having the pews all removed from the church and having seats put in. Also allowing children to run around during certain services. He perhaps looks upon himself as "Modern", but several long standing parishioners are now attending other churches. The bishop needs to have a word with this loose cannon yorkandproud

11:04am Mon 21 Dec 09

yorkandproud says...

AngryandFrustrated wrote:
This priest is a disgrace to the Catholic church and should be sacked. His comments should be rammed down his throat until he gags on them! It is comments like this from so called "leaders" of our community that give rise to the dumbing down of various offences. I have no problem helping out the needy. However, they also have to help themselves out to some degree. I used to work in this area and to be blunt, I do not see why the likes of me and you should pay more for our goods, due to shoplifting costs being passed on, because some addict wants to shoot smack into his or her arm. There are some very needy people out there - however, a lot of needy people do not feel the urge to go out, break the law and make other people pay. Having worked with addicts, I know how needy they can be. However, a significant proportion of them do not want to get off drink or drugs - they only say they do because it looks good in court when you come up for sentencing. Maybe someone should go and steal the collection box from this Priest's church. No doubt it will be stolen by a "needy" person who should be forgiven by the flock. However, methinks a large proportion of the flock will think theft is theft, whether or not it is from a national chain of shops or a charity box from a church.
Firstly, this man is not a catholic priest, he is the vicar of St Laurences in Lawrence Street. Why he insists in calling himself Father Tim appears to come from years he spent in the USA.
He seems to be full of strange ideas, and is currently doing a fine job alienating himself from the older members of the congregation at St Laurences with his ideas. Examples of which are having the pews all removed from the church and having seats put in. Also allowing children to run around during certain services. He perhaps looks upon himself as "Modern", but several long standing parishioners are now attending other churches. The bishop needs to have a word with this loose cannon
[quote][p][bold]AngryandFrustrated[/bold] wrote: This priest is a disgrace to the Catholic church and should be sacked. His comments should be rammed down his throat until he gags on them! It is comments like this from so called "leaders" of our community that give rise to the dumbing down of various offences. I have no problem helping out the needy. However, they also have to help themselves out to some degree. I used to work in this area and to be blunt, I do not see why the likes of me and you should pay more for our goods, due to shoplifting costs being passed on, because some addict wants to shoot smack into his or her arm. There are some very needy people out there - however, a lot of needy people do not feel the urge to go out, break the law and make other people pay. Having worked with addicts, I know how needy they can be. However, a significant proportion of them do not want to get off drink or drugs - they only say they do because it looks good in court when you come up for sentencing. Maybe someone should go and steal the collection box from this Priest's church. No doubt it will be stolen by a "needy" person who should be forgiven by the flock. However, methinks a large proportion of the flock will think theft is theft, whether or not it is from a national chain of shops or a charity box from a church.[/p][/quote]Firstly, this man is not a catholic priest, he is the vicar of St Laurences in Lawrence Street. Why he insists in calling himself Father Tim appears to come from years he spent in the USA. He seems to be full of strange ideas, and is currently doing a fine job alienating himself from the older members of the congregation at St Laurences with his ideas. Examples of which are having the pews all removed from the church and having seats put in. Also allowing children to run around during certain services. He perhaps looks upon himself as "Modern", but several long standing parishioners are now attending other churches. The bishop needs to have a word with this loose cannon yorkandproud

11:08am Mon 21 Dec 09

Get-a-grip says...

For inciting people to commit criminal offences, I now expect the Archbishop of York to remove Jones from his job and sack him.
For inciting people to commit criminal offences, I now expect the Archbishop of York to remove Jones from his job and sack him. Get-a-grip

11:21am Mon 21 Dec 09

Soothsayer17 says...

YorkandProud wrote: "The bishop needs to have a word with this loose cannon."
.
That's quite witty when you think about it!
YorkandProud wrote: "The bishop needs to have a word with this loose cannon." . That's quite witty when you think about it! Soothsayer17

11:25am Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

Soothsayer17 wrote:
YorkandProud wrote: "The bishop needs to have a word with this loose cannon."
.
That's quite witty when you think about it!
Yep, I got it.
[quote][p][bold]Soothsayer17[/bold] wrote: YorkandProud wrote: "The bishop needs to have a word with this loose cannon." . That's quite witty when you think about it![/p][/quote]Yep, I got it. The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

11:25am Mon 21 Dec 09

Freetrade says...

Ask any Plod. Shoplifters these days aren't Victorian style starving waifs. They wear "designer"gear and have fags and money in their pockets. The majority thieve to fund a drink and drugs lifestyle and provide ready cash. Let this nutty cleric support them if he wishes, but my sparse funds will go to better causes.
Ask any Plod. Shoplifters these days aren't Victorian style starving waifs. They wear "designer"gear and have fags and money in their pockets. The majority thieve to fund a drink and drugs lifestyle and provide ready cash. Let this nutty cleric support them if he wishes, but my sparse funds will go to better causes. Freetrade

11:25am Mon 21 Dec 09

Garrowby turnoffs mother in law says...

Get-a-grip wrote:
For inciting people to commit criminal offences, I now expect the Archbishop of York to remove Jones from his job and sack him.
I think you should get a grip!
[quote][p][bold]Get-a-grip[/bold] wrote: For inciting people to commit criminal offences, I now expect the Archbishop of York to remove Jones from his job and sack him.[/p][/quote]I think you should get a grip! Garrowby turnoffs mother in law

11:26am Mon 21 Dec 09

Guy Fawkes says...

'I would ask that they do not steal from small, family businesses, but from large national businesses, knowing that the costs are ultimately passed on to THE REST OF US in the form of higher prices.' (my emphasis)


This argument only holds water if you accept that 'the rest of us' are all a lot wealthier than the thieves.

By the same token, would he advocate hard-up motorists driving uninsured, on the grounds that 'the rest of us' can easily afford the extra £40 or so on our premiums to pay for the accidents they cause?

Yet another reason why organised religion has nothing whatsoever to say to anyone with a shred of intelligence. And it's not as if the church doesn't have form in this regard: my favourite example is Sentamu delivering a sermon in which he told people to cut down on unnecessary energy use to reduce global warming, from the pulpit of a building that was needlessly floodlit.
[quote]'I would ask that they do not steal from small, family businesses, but from large national businesses, knowing that the costs are ultimately passed on to THE REST OF US in the form of higher prices.' (my emphasis)[/quote] This argument only holds water if you accept that 'the rest of us' are all a lot wealthier than the thieves. By the same token, would he advocate hard-up motorists driving uninsured, on the grounds that 'the rest of us' can easily afford the extra £40 or so on our premiums to pay for the accidents they cause? Yet another reason why organised religion has nothing whatsoever to say to anyone with a shred of intelligence. And it's not as if the church doesn't have form in this regard: my favourite example is Sentamu delivering a sermon in which he told people to cut down on unnecessary energy use to reduce global warming, from the pulpit of a building that was needlessly floodlit. Guy Fawkes

11:32am Mon 21 Dec 09

The Vicar says...

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:
nobodyknowswhoiam wrote:
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote: If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same. I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though!
could I ask you what you took?
Nothing, honest! But I would if I had too.
No wondered this country is on its knees....


Theft is theft, whether from Tesco’s or indeed smaller outlets


This joke of a Father needs sacking and locking up...
[quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nobodyknowswhoiam[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same. I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though![/p][/quote]could I ask you what you took?[/p][/quote]Nothing, honest! But I would if I had too.[/p][/quote]No wondered this country is on its knees.... Theft is theft, whether from Tesco’s or indeed smaller outlets This joke of a Father needs sacking and locking up... The Vicar

11:40am Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

The Vicar wrote:
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:
nobodyknowswhoiam wrote:
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote: If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same. I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though!
could I ask you what you took?
Nothing, honest! But I would if I had too.
No wondered this country is on its knees....


Theft is theft, whether from Tesco’s or indeed smaller outlets


This joke of a Father needs sacking and locking up...
Vicar, if your saying that you would not steal if you really had to, then your a downright liar.
[quote][p][bold]The Vicar[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nobodyknowswhoiam[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same. I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though![/p][/quote]could I ask you what you took?[/p][/quote]Nothing, honest! But I would if I had too.[/p][/quote]No wondered this country is on its knees.... Theft is theft, whether from Tesco’s or indeed smaller outlets This joke of a Father needs sacking and locking up...[/p][/quote]Vicar, if your saying that you would not steal if you really had to, then your a downright liar. The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

11:43am Mon 21 Dec 09

AngryandFrustrated says...

WA wrote:
Father Jones is not a priest of the Roman Catholic Church. I am against his apparent encouragement to shoplift in any store, large or small.
Many apologies - given the reference to "Priest" and "Father" I had assumed he was Catholic as these are all terms used widely to describe Catholic priests - C of E usually refer to themselves as "vicars" or "reverands".

However, whichever denomination he is from, I stand my posting - theft is theft whoever you steal from!
[quote][p][bold]WA[/bold] wrote: Father Jones is not a priest of the Roman Catholic Church. I am against his apparent encouragement to shoplift in any store, large or small.[/p][/quote]Many apologies - given the reference to "Priest" and "Father" I had assumed he was Catholic as these are all terms used widely to describe Catholic priests - C of E usually refer to themselves as "vicars" or "reverands". However, whichever denomination he is from, I stand my posting - theft is theft whoever you steal from! AngryandFrustrated

11:52am Mon 21 Dec 09

localgirl says...

Morality aside for a minute, does he realise that getting nicked for shop-lifting is likely to add to the troubles of the needy in quite a serious way?
Morality aside for a minute, does he realise that getting nicked for shop-lifting is likely to add to the troubles of the needy in quite a serious way? localgirl

11:55am Mon 21 Dec 09

anastasia says...

I really don't approve of stealing, especially as lots of big companies are on the verge of going under too. (eg Woolies!) But I also find it interesting that nobody has suggested a better way of supporting people with no cash whatsoever. Hello people??? Why aren't we saving some of our disgust for a system so bound in red tape that it can't give people money for food!
I really don't approve of stealing, especially as lots of big companies are on the verge of going under too. (eg Woolies!) But I also find it interesting that nobody has suggested a better way of supporting people with no cash whatsoever. Hello people??? Why aren't we saving some of our disgust for a system so bound in red tape that it can't give people money for food! anastasia

11:56am Mon 21 Dec 09

Whistlejacket says...

Given that the Church of England is one of the wealthiest organisations in the country, with far more branches than any major retailer, perhaps "Father" Tim could volunteer to hold the ladder while a couple of needy folk liberate the lead from his roof.
Given that the Church of England is one of the wealthiest organisations in the country, with far more branches than any major retailer, perhaps "Father" Tim could volunteer to hold the ladder while a couple of needy folk liberate the lead from his roof. Whistlejacket

12:41pm Mon 21 Dec 09

AngryandFrustrated says...

anastasia wrote:
I really don't approve of stealing, especially as lots of big companies are on the verge of going under too. (eg Woolies!) But I also find it interesting that nobody has suggested a better way of supporting people with no cash whatsoever. Hello people??? Why aren't we saving some of our disgust for a system so bound in red tape that it can't give people money for food!
There are some very needy people out there who are needy through no fault of their own. However, there are a significant number of people (if not most of them) who are "needy" through their own fault and lifestyle choices - ie because of a drug dependancy, gambling addiction etc.

Those that are "truly" needy, generally get help from all the appropriate agencies. Altho' they may have to lead a frugal lifestyle, they cope and get thru' it. Those that are needy thru' lifestyle choices tend to get help but with strings attached that they don't like - eg with drugs - specified help is available but the people accessing the help need to show committment to coming off drugs etc. They don't turn up for their rehab appointments and they take the money they are due for food and other essentials and spend it on whatever their poison is.

Call me cynical, but there is "needy" and "needy". People will find the money for what they consider to be essential. It's a bit like all the floods that have devestated houses around the country and the amount of people that did not have any insurance and therefore "lost everything". People bleat on about how they couldn't afford contents insurance as they show the camera man around their devestated front room. The camera picks up sodden lcd television, latest dvd player, sky tv and an x-box for good measure and yet, despite having all these luxuries, they couldn't afford the insurance to look after them. It is the choice they chose to make - pay a subscription to Sky and yet don't pay your insurance.

People need to take responsibility for their actions and if people steal, for whatever reason, then they do so in the knowledge that it's illegal and they may be caught. People like this muppet do-gooder who feels it appropriate to encourage people to break the law should be prosecuted for inciting a crime.
[quote][p][bold]anastasia[/bold] wrote: I really don't approve of stealing, especially as lots of big companies are on the verge of going under too. (eg Woolies!) But I also find it interesting that nobody has suggested a better way of supporting people with no cash whatsoever. Hello people??? Why aren't we saving some of our disgust for a system so bound in red tape that it can't give people money for food![/p][/quote]There are some very needy people out there who are needy through no fault of their own. However, there are a significant number of people (if not most of them) who are "needy" through their own fault and lifestyle choices - ie because of a drug dependancy, gambling addiction etc. Those that are "truly" needy, generally get help from all the appropriate agencies. Altho' they may have to lead a frugal lifestyle, they cope and get thru' it. Those that are needy thru' lifestyle choices tend to get help but with strings attached that they don't like - eg with drugs - specified help is available but the people accessing the help need to show committment to coming off drugs etc. They don't turn up for their rehab appointments and they take the money they are due for food and other essentials and spend it on whatever their poison is. Call me cynical, but there is "needy" and "needy". People will find the money for what they consider to be essential. It's a bit like all the floods that have devestated houses around the country and the amount of people that did not have any insurance and therefore "lost everything". People bleat on about how they couldn't afford contents insurance as they show the camera man around their devestated front room. The camera picks up sodden lcd television, latest dvd player, sky tv and an x-box for good measure and yet, despite having all these luxuries, they couldn't afford the insurance to look after them. It is the choice they chose to make - pay a subscription to Sky and yet don't pay your insurance. People need to take responsibility for their actions and if people steal, for whatever reason, then they do so in the knowledge that it's illegal and they may be caught. People like this muppet do-gooder who feels it appropriate to encourage people to break the law should be prosecuted for inciting a crime. AngryandFrustrated

1:03pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Martha1 says...

I don't see why this story keeps being 'bumped up' to the top of the news of today. The sermon should have been kept between the few people who attended the service at St Lawrence and Father Tim.
Stealing is wrong full stop.
I don't see why this story keeps being 'bumped up' to the top of the news of today. The sermon should have been kept between the few people who attended the service at St Lawrence and Father Tim. Stealing is wrong full stop. Martha1

1:06pm Mon 21 Dec 09

jvh100 says...

No one has yet noticed the biggest blunder from where in his sermon he says ....
"Not the God who is born of Mary".

Well as a Catholic (not particulary practicing though), I would like to remind this man that God was NOT born of Mary - Jesus was born of Mary and Jesus is not a God! What kind of distorted religion is this man preaching?

I would like to remind this 'Priest' that God is old testament and made man in his image'. Jesus is New Testament, was the son of god, NOT a God born of Mary.
No one has yet noticed the biggest blunder from where in his sermon he says .... "Not the God who is born of Mary". Well as a Catholic (not particulary practicing though), I would like to remind this man that God was NOT born of Mary - Jesus was born of Mary and Jesus is not a God! What kind of distorted religion is this man preaching? I would like to remind this 'Priest' that God is old testament and made man in his image'. Jesus is New Testament, was the son of god, NOT a God born of Mary. jvh100

1:07pm Mon 21 Dec 09

mockaroundtheclock says...

It's not the most crazy thing i've heard priests say.

If you want some real whacked out nonsense, try transubstantiation, the virgin birth, the assumption and talking snakes!
It's not the most crazy thing i've heard priests say. If you want some real whacked out nonsense, try transubstantiation, the virgin birth, the assumption and talking snakes! mockaroundtheclock

1:13pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Martha1 says...

Those who are in need could find the new website www.acts435.com set up by the Archbishop of York useful
Those who are in need could find the new website www.acts435.com set up by the Archbishop of York useful Martha1

1:35pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Zetkin says...

Standing ovation for Fr Tim from all at Zetkin Towers.

Stand at the election on a platform of "Take from the rich to give to the poor," and you'll get my vote.
Standing ovation for Fr Tim from all at Zetkin Towers. Stand at the election on a platform of "Take from the rich to give to the poor," and you'll get my vote. Zetkin

1:37pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Kiff says...

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:
I'm glad to see Paula-T's comments have been removed. Inconsiderate idiot!
I found it offensive and asked that it was removed,
[quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: I'm glad to see Paula-T's comments have been removed. Inconsiderate idiot![/p][/quote]I found it offensive and asked that it was removed, Kiff

1:37pm Mon 21 Dec 09

zook says...

Has hit the national news:

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
1237470/Priest-outra
ges-police-telling-c
ongregation-My-advic
e-shoplift.html
Has hit the national news: http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 1237470/Priest-outra ges-police-telling-c ongregation-My-advic e-shoplift.html zook

1:42pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Zetkin says...

...I assume those who are getting on their high horse have read the sermon in full and believe that destitute people should follow the alternative path mentioned by Fr Tim; that of burglary, prostitution, or suicide.
`
I sincerely hope you never find yourselves facing that dilemma: steal or starve.
...I assume those who are getting on their high horse have read the sermon in full and believe that destitute people should follow the alternative path mentioned by Fr Tim; that of burglary, prostitution, or suicide. ` I sincerely hope you never find yourselves facing that dilemma: steal or starve. Zetkin

1:53pm Mon 21 Dec 09

OLD - HEAD says...

Sadly "Father Ted" has now finished, but I can now see the possibility of a new series, with a slight name change.
Sadly "Father Ted" has now finished, but I can now see the possibility of a new series, with a slight name change. OLD - HEAD

2:00pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Glen_Quagmire says...

I don't see why you shouldn't steal from Tesco, they steal from the government all the time. Tesco offshore money to Europe to avoid paying millions in corporation tax over here.
I don't see why you shouldn't steal from Tesco, they steal from the government all the time. Tesco offshore money to Europe to avoid paying millions in corporation tax over here. Glen_Quagmire

2:08pm Mon 21 Dec 09

A taxpayer says...

Nice one Nice but Dim but an own goal. What actually happens is the stores these days especially the national chains he favours don't call the police, they call their solicitors who then sue the shoplifters for vast sums. The shoplifters can't afford to defend the case and the bailiffs get sent it to recover goods. As these people never have receipts for anything a bailiff can virtually clear their house leaving a cooker, pan, a few utensils and the clothes on their back then sell the haul at auction despite most of it being stolen in the first place. These bailiffs auctions are well worth a visit.
Nice one Nice but Dim but an own goal. What actually happens is the stores these days especially the national chains he favours don't call the police, they call their solicitors who then sue the shoplifters for vast sums. The shoplifters can't afford to defend the case and the bailiffs get sent it to recover goods. As these people never have receipts for anything a bailiff can virtually clear their house leaving a cooker, pan, a few utensils and the clothes on their back then sell the haul at auction despite most of it being stolen in the first place. These bailiffs auctions are well worth a visit. A taxpayer

2:13pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Pedro says...

Are the other nine Commandments ok?
Are the other nine Commandments ok? Pedro

2:15pm Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

Kiff wrote:
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:
I'm glad to see Paula-T's comments have been removed. Inconsiderate idiot!
I found it offensive and asked that it was removed,
Well done!
[quote][p][bold]Kiff[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: I'm glad to see Paula-T's comments have been removed. Inconsiderate idiot![/p][/quote]I found it offensive and asked that it was removed,[/p][/quote]Well done! The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

2:19pm Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

I dont see what the problem is with a little pinching here and there.
I dont see what the problem is with a little pinching here and there. The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

2:39pm Mon 21 Dec 09

The Vicar says...

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:
The Vicar wrote:
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote:
nobodyknowswhoiam wrote:
The Cat Amongst The Pigeons wrote: If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same. I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though!
could I ask you what you took?
Nothing, honest! But I would if I had too.
No wondered this country is on its knees.... Theft is theft, whether from Tesco’s or indeed smaller outlets This joke of a Father needs sacking and locking up...
Vicar, if your saying that you would not steal if you really had to, then your a downright liar.
Not a chance - I would never steal!


A potential prison sentence and a criminal record isn’t going to do anyone any favours when trying to rebuild their lives should the situation arise...


I can’t understand anyone condoning crime…. There are other ways to handle poverty and misfortune without advising criminal activity…



Next, you’ll be advising murder if it cured depression!
[quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Vicar[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nobodyknowswhoiam[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Cat Amongst The Pigeons[/bold] wrote: If I found myself in a position of extreme poverty due to circumstances beyond my control and my health at risk then I would without a doubt steal from places such as Tesco. And I would advise others to do the same. I certainly would not go into a store and begin throwing the stock on the floor though![/p][/quote]could I ask you what you took?[/p][/quote]Nothing, honest! But I would if I had too.[/p][/quote]No wondered this country is on its knees.... Theft is theft, whether from Tesco’s or indeed smaller outlets This joke of a Father needs sacking and locking up...[/p][/quote]Vicar, if your saying that you would not steal if you really had to, then your a downright liar.[/p][/quote]Not a chance - I would never steal! A potential prison sentence and a criminal record isn’t going to do anyone any favours when trying to rebuild their lives should the situation arise... I can’t understand anyone condoning crime…. There are other ways to handle poverty and misfortune without advising criminal activity… Next, you’ll be advising murder if it cured depression! The Vicar

2:43pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Henry Swanson says...

How many of you, if in a tight spot, possibly with children to feed, wouldnt steel from Tesco if you needed to eat??? My money would be on relativeley few of you. The thing is that people do what they need to do to survive in times of genuine hardship.

Oh another note, Im not sure I agree that prostitution is degrading... surely thats a personal choice made by the person involved?? It should be legal which would help clean it up quite a bit.
How many of you, if in a tight spot, possibly with children to feed, wouldnt steel from Tesco if you needed to eat??? My money would be on relativeley few of you. The thing is that people do what they need to do to survive in times of genuine hardship. Oh another note, Im not sure I agree that prostitution is degrading... surely thats a personal choice made by the person involved?? It should be legal which would help clean it up quite a bit. Henry Swanson

2:53pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Soothsayer17 says...

Henry Swanson wrote:
How many of you, if in a tight spot, possibly with children to feed, wouldnt steel from Tesco if you needed to eat??? My money would be on relativeley few of you. The thing is that people do what they need to do to survive in times of genuine hardship.

Oh another note, Im not sure I agree that prostitution is degrading... surely thats a personal choice made by the person involved?? It should be legal which would help clean it up quite a bit.
Sadly it is often is anything but a "personal choice made by the person involved." Hence poorer nations like Moldova losing 20% of their female population to human trafficking.
[quote][p][bold]Henry Swanson[/bold] wrote: How many of you, if in a tight spot, possibly with children to feed, wouldnt steel from Tesco if you needed to eat??? My money would be on relativeley few of you. The thing is that people do what they need to do to survive in times of genuine hardship. Oh another note, Im not sure I agree that prostitution is degrading... surely thats a personal choice made by the person involved?? It should be legal which would help clean it up quite a bit.[/p][/quote]Sadly it is often is anything but a "personal choice made by the person involved." Hence poorer nations like Moldova losing 20% of their female population to human trafficking. Soothsayer17

2:54pm Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

How about murder? I've heard it's a possible cure for depression.
How about murder? I've heard it's a possible cure for depression. The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

2:56pm Mon 21 Dec 09

TooRad says...

I've done it in the distant past. Supermarkets are fair game. It's amazing how you can just open packets and how much you can get away with eating while you're wheeling a trolley round the aisles ;)
Not sure about men of the cloth and the whole commandments thing though....
I've done it in the distant past. Supermarkets are fair game. It's amazing how you can just open packets and how much you can get away with eating while you're wheeling a trolley round the aisles ;) Not sure about men of the cloth and the whole commandments thing though.... TooRad

2:58pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Hieronymous says...

jvh100: ALL mainstream denominations of Christianity (Catholic;Anglican; Protestant Non-Conformist; Orthodox; whatever!) have ALWAYS taught that Jesus is as much part of the Godhead as any other part of the Holy Trinity! This is basic Christian theology and explains why Mary is known to the Greeks a "Theotokos" - or "God-bearer". As a Catholic, have you never heard her referred to as "Mother of God"?

To return to the main issue, though, Father Tim's remark was clearly intended to provoke discussion. Own goal or not, it's clearly worked, and has even triggered some relatively intelligent exchanges on this comments facility for once!
jvh100: ALL mainstream denominations of Christianity (Catholic;Anglican; Protestant Non-Conformist; Orthodox; whatever!) have ALWAYS taught that Jesus is as much part of the Godhead as any other part of the Holy Trinity! This is basic Christian theology and explains why Mary is known to the Greeks a "Theotokos" - or "God-bearer". As a Catholic, have you never heard her referred to as "Mother of God"? To return to the main issue, though, Father Tim's remark was clearly intended to provoke discussion. Own goal or not, it's clearly worked, and has even triggered some relatively intelligent exchanges on this comments facility for once! Hieronymous

2:59pm Mon 21 Dec 09

TheManWithTheFuManchuMoustache says...

“Let my words not be misrepresented as a simplistic call for people to shoplift." says Father Tim Jones.

The Press Headline?

"'It’s okay to shoplift' says Father Tim Jones"

Pure genius.
“Let my words not be misrepresented as a simplistic call for people to shoplift." says Father Tim Jones. The Press Headline? "'It’s okay to shoplift' says Father Tim Jones" Pure genius. TheManWithTheFuManchuMoustache

3:20pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Henry Swanson says...

Soothsayer17 wrote:
Henry Swanson wrote: How many of you, if in a tight spot, possibly with children to feed, wouldnt steel from Tesco if you needed to eat??? My money would be on relativeley few of you. The thing is that people do what they need to do to survive in times of genuine hardship. Oh another note, Im not sure I agree that prostitution is degrading... surely thats a personal choice made by the person involved?? It should be legal which would help clean it up quite a bit.
Sadly it is often is anything but a "personal choice made by the person involved." Hence poorer nations like Moldova losing 20% of their female population to human trafficking.
Sorry, let me clarify, if someone choses to do that to make a living I dint see ti as being degrading.... infact its not really degrading if forced into it, more abuse than degredation......
[quote][p][bold]Soothsayer17[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Henry Swanson[/bold] wrote: How many of you, if in a tight spot, possibly with children to feed, wouldnt steel from Tesco if you needed to eat??? My money would be on relativeley few of you. The thing is that people do what they need to do to survive in times of genuine hardship. Oh another note, Im not sure I agree that prostitution is degrading... surely thats a personal choice made by the person involved?? It should be legal which would help clean it up quite a bit.[/p][/quote]Sadly it is often is anything but a "personal choice made by the person involved." Hence poorer nations like Moldova losing 20% of their female population to human trafficking.[/p][/quote]Sorry, let me clarify, if someone choses to do that to make a living I dint see ti as being degrading.... infact its not really degrading if forced into it, more abuse than degredation...... Henry Swanson

3:33pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Hieronymous says...

What's the difference between abuse and degradation, Henry?
What's the difference between abuse and degradation, Henry? Hieronymous

3:36pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Soothsayer17 says...

Henry Swanson wrote:
Soothsayer17 wrote:
Henry Swanson wrote: How many of you, if in a tight spot, possibly with children to feed, wouldnt steel from Tesco if you needed to eat??? My money would be on relativeley few of you. The thing is that people do what they need to do to survive in times of genuine hardship. Oh another note, Im not sure I agree that prostitution is degrading... surely thats a personal choice made by the person involved?? It should be legal which would help clean it up quite a bit.
Sadly it is often is anything but a "personal choice made by the person involved." Hence poorer nations like Moldova losing 20% of their female population to human trafficking.
Sorry, let me clarify, if someone choses to do that to make a living I dint see ti as being degrading.... infact its not really degrading if forced into it, more abuse than degredation......
Still - hardly an arguement for legalisation, is it?!?
[quote][p][bold]Henry Swanson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Soothsayer17[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Henry Swanson[/bold] wrote: How many of you, if in a tight spot, possibly with children to feed, wouldnt steel from Tesco if you needed to eat??? My money would be on relativeley few of you. The thing is that people do what they need to do to survive in times of genuine hardship. Oh another note, Im not sure I agree that prostitution is degrading... surely thats a personal choice made by the person involved?? It should be legal which would help clean it up quite a bit.[/p][/quote]Sadly it is often is anything but a "personal choice made by the person involved." Hence poorer nations like Moldova losing 20% of their female population to human trafficking.[/p][/quote]Sorry, let me clarify, if someone choses to do that to make a living I dint see ti as being degrading.... infact its not really degrading if forced into it, more abuse than degredation......[/p][/quote]Still - hardly an arguement for legalisation, is it?!? Soothsayer17

3:37pm Mon 21 Dec 09

mystic_genius says...

Get-a-grip wrote:
For inciting people to commit criminal offences, I now expect the Archbishop of York to remove Jones from his job and sack him.
But then he would become a "needy" person, and would steal from the rest of us.

taking his comments one step further, I always thought (still do, in fact) that people who occupy council houses unnecessarily are stealing. After all. they don't need the house. they can afford elsewhere. they just prefer the fact that the rest of us like to pay for them to have a roof over their heads.

Just a thought, but society is already condoning this attitude.

And I far from agree with it, it's just another example of moronic churches. they are not required in modern society.
[quote][p][bold]Get-a-grip[/bold] wrote: For inciting people to commit criminal offences, I now expect the Archbishop of York to remove Jones from his job and sack him.[/p][/quote]But then he would become a "needy" person, and would steal from the rest of us. taking his comments one step further, I always thought (still do, in fact) that people who occupy council houses unnecessarily are stealing. After all. they don't need the house. they can afford elsewhere. they just prefer the fact that the rest of us like to pay for them to have a roof over their heads. Just a thought, but society is already condoning this attitude. And I far from agree with it, it's just another example of moronic churches. they are not required in modern society. mystic_genius

4:15pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Henry Swanson says...

Hieronymous wrote:
What's the difference between abuse and degradation, Henry?
Abuse is to cause harm to someone, to degrade is merely to humiliate
[quote][p][bold]Hieronymous[/bold] wrote: What's the difference between abuse and degradation, Henry?[/p][/quote]Abuse is to cause harm to someone, to degrade is merely to humiliate Henry Swanson

4:22pm Mon 21 Dec 09

RexN says...

Did Anne McIntosh really make those comments? She has claimed for personal car repairs and personal motoring insurance whilst using hire cars when visiting her constituency. She has signed to indicate that claims are: "wholly, exclusively and necessarily to enable me to stay overnight away from my only or main home for the purpose of performing my duties as a Member of Parliament"

It seems that there are different levels of petty crime, some of which are acceptable, and some of which are unacceptable to our Members of Partliament. Personally, I think MPs' expenses are an example of "a crime against the whole local community and society".
Did Anne McIntosh really make those comments? She has claimed for personal car repairs and personal motoring insurance whilst using hire cars when visiting her constituency. She has signed to indicate that claims are: "wholly, exclusively and necessarily to enable me to stay overnight away from my only or main home for the purpose of performing my duties as a Member of Parliament" It seems that there are different levels of petty crime, some of which are acceptable, and some of which are unacceptable to our Members of Partliament. Personally, I think MPs' expenses are an example of "a crime against the whole local community and society". RexN

4:57pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Garrowby Turnoff says...

8th Commandment: "Thou shall not steal"

Is there a problem with this?
8th Commandment: "Thou shall not steal" Is there a problem with this? Garrowby Turnoff

5:07pm Mon 21 Dec 09

pedalling paul says...

I recall a notice in a shop. It read "God helps those who help themselves. We Prosecute!"

But seriously Fr. Tim has chosen to start a debate, and has succeeded beyond perhaps, his own expectations. Why has our Society left some in a position where stealing from the rich is their only option for survival?
I recall a notice in a shop. It read "God helps those who help themselves. We Prosecute!" But seriously Fr. Tim has chosen to start a debate, and has succeeded beyond perhaps, his own expectations. Why has our Society left some in a position where stealing from the rich is their only option for survival? pedalling paul

5:48pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Yorkshire Volunteer says...

In his own slightly eccentric way this "meddlesome priest" has made a good core point but in a particularly inept way, as seems to be his wont.

I can have some sympathy with his objection to the use of the Playboy logo on young girls items and clothes (there is too great a inadvertant sexualisation of very young girls in this way) but throwing items around a shop was not appropriate.

In the same way, this exhortation to steal is both wrong in itself and irresponsible. We all pay for the items that are stolen from chain stores and to encourage theft is hardly consistent with his Christian mission. His point however as to the poverty in our midst, the creaking way that the Benefits system is run (and the example of the ex-prisoner having that minimum crisis loan instead of having his/her benefits processed is not unusual) is a good one.

Perhaps his Bishop needs to take him aside and have a word with him - maybe there is some Public Relations course he could go on?

In the meantime he is both discrediting his Church and the causes that he espouses.

Whatever will he do next?
In his own slightly eccentric way this "meddlesome priest" has made a good core point but in a particularly inept way, as seems to be his wont. I can have some sympathy with his objection to the use of the Playboy logo on young girls items and clothes (there is too great a inadvertant sexualisation of very young girls in this way) but throwing items around a shop was not appropriate. In the same way, this exhortation to steal is both wrong in itself and irresponsible. We all pay for the items that are stolen from chain stores and to encourage theft is hardly consistent with his Christian mission. His point however as to the poverty in our midst, the creaking way that the Benefits system is run (and the example of the ex-prisoner having that minimum crisis loan instead of having his/her benefits processed is not unusual) is a good one. Perhaps his Bishop needs to take him aside and have a word with him - maybe there is some Public Relations course he could go on? In the meantime he is both discrediting his Church and the causes that he espouses. Whatever will he do next? Yorkshire Volunteer

5:53pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Bo Jolly says...

"8th Commandment: "Thou shall not steal"

Is there a problem with this?"
--------
There is if you believe, like Proudhon, that all property is theft. Some xians are pretty close to anarchists in their thinking - perhaps this vicar is one of them?
-
Or perhaps he's just trying to attract attention to the church when so many people have stopped believing in the sky fairy...
"8th Commandment: "Thou shall not steal" Is there a problem with this?" -------- There is if you believe, like Proudhon, that all property is theft. Some xians are pretty close to anarchists in their thinking - perhaps this vicar is one of them? - Or perhaps he's just trying to attract attention to the church when so many people have stopped believing in the sky fairy... Bo Jolly

5:58pm Mon 21 Dec 09

the butler says...

This man is three bricks short of a load; Unable to think before he opens his mouth to speak, He is an offence to intelligent people..
A little of his diatribe is obvious, Yet I wonder what synod would allow such a man to represent them in the church?
This man is three bricks short of a load; Unable to think before he opens his mouth to speak, He is an offence to intelligent people.. A little of his diatribe is obvious, Yet I wonder what synod would allow such a man to represent them in the church? the butler

6:08pm Mon 21 Dec 09

topumpire1 says...

The 10 commandments say" thou shall NOT steel" amongst others, if ANY clergy cannot agree to them, perhaps they should be in a different job, or his bosses should think seriously if he is right for the job, maybe he needs sacking!
The 10 commandments say" thou shall NOT steel" amongst others, if ANY clergy cannot agree to them, perhaps they should be in a different job, or his bosses should think seriously if he is right for the job, maybe he needs sacking! topumpire1

6:31pm Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

He's a very clever man who very soon will be a well paid celebrity. No doubt.
He's a very clever man who very soon will be a well paid celebrity. No doubt. The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

6:44pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Vauxhall Viva says...

Just seen Father Tim in Poundland nicking a casio calculator watch and a multipack of polo's
Just seen Father Tim in Poundland nicking a casio calculator watch and a multipack of polo's Vauxhall Viva

6:51pm Mon 21 Dec 09

TooRad says...

TheManWithTheFuManch
uMoustache
wrote:
“Let my words not be misrepresented as a simplistic call for people to shoplift." says Father Tim Jones.

The Press Headline?

"'It’s okay to shoplift' says Father Tim Jones"

Pure genius.
Ok, having taken the time to read the article, the sermon and the comments, that appears to be the most pertinent point on the page.
.
The religion bloke might as well be talking swahili because as long as our society continues to be a bunch of follow the tabloid crappy knee-jerks, anyone with an ounce of understanding or depth has no chance of getting a message across to the legions of indignant halfwits queuing up to miss the point, generalise and sensationalise.
.
[quote][p][bold]TheManWithTheFuManch uMoustache[/bold] wrote: “Let my words not be misrepresented as a simplistic call for people to shoplift." says Father Tim Jones. The Press Headline? "'It’s okay to shoplift' says Father Tim Jones" Pure genius.[/p][/quote]Ok, having taken the time to read the article, the sermon and the comments, that appears to be the most pertinent point on the page. . The religion bloke might as well be talking swahili because as long as our society continues to be a bunch of follow the tabloid crappy knee-jerks, anyone with an ounce of understanding or depth has no chance of getting a message across to the legions of indignant halfwits queuing up to miss the point, generalise and sensationalise. . TooRad

8:02pm Mon 21 Dec 09

pedalling paul says...

topumpire1 wrote:
The 10 commandments say" thou shall NOT steel" amongst others, if ANY clergy cannot agree to them, perhaps they should be in a different job, or his bosses should think seriously if he is right for the job, maybe he needs sacking!
...or STEAL even.......
Spelling 5/10
[quote][p][bold]topumpire1[/bold] wrote: The 10 commandments say" thou shall NOT steel" amongst others, if ANY clergy cannot agree to them, perhaps they should be in a different job, or his bosses should think seriously if he is right for the job, maybe he needs sacking![/p][/quote]...or STEAL even....... Spelling 5/10 pedalling paul

8:15pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Mary-Jane says...

I read only two sensible comments on this article, Fu Manchu's and Too Rad's response to him.
What I fail to see is anyone taking the trouble to go back to the text of the gospel on which Fr Lawrence was preaching: the Magnificat.
It is probably the most revoutionary text of the NTst - there is no meek and mild, let's all be kind to each other suggestion. The text is, in the first part a hymn of praise, however the second part is nothing less than a prophesy of revolutionary, table-turning socialism. This is no 21st century idea. In 1886 Hancock was preaching on this text pointing out that it is
"The Hymn of the Social Revolution" Hancock states: "the Magnificat has as its motive the scattering, ... by God's Son, of those classes in every nation which make wars, ... ... 'the proud', 'the mighty' and 'the rich'."

He goes on to declare Mary the mother of socialism and specifically recognises the importance of the Magnificat to "all sorts and conditions of men and women in the daily ordering of their lives." He relates the text to the "homeless, the workless and the hungry" of his time; he declares the church is at war with the mighty and rich on behalf of the social outcasts.
He could see this before the turn of the 20thC - Is Fr Lawrence's sermon really so outrageous now as we see before us the hungry, workless and homeless of our own time.
Before commenting further, please go back and look at those lines in Luke's gospel and think a bit more. Lawrence's call to turn the tables is him doing his job as a clerk in holy orders - preaching the gospel.
Yours etc
An Atheist

What's the fuss about the use of "Father" - high church anglicans have used this form of address for donkeys years.
I read only two sensible comments on this article, Fu Manchu's and Too Rad's response to him. What I fail to see is anyone taking the trouble to go back to the text of the gospel on which Fr Lawrence was preaching: the Magnificat. It is probably the most revoutionary text of the NTst - there is no meek and mild, let's all be kind to each other suggestion. The text is, in the first part a hymn of praise, however the second part is nothing less than a prophesy of revolutionary, table-turning socialism. This is no 21st century idea. In 1886 Hancock was preaching on this text pointing out that it is "The Hymn of the Social Revolution" Hancock states: "the Magnificat has as its motive the scattering, ... by God's Son, of those classes in every nation which make wars, ... ... 'the proud', 'the mighty' and 'the rich'." He goes on to declare Mary the mother of socialism and specifically recognises the importance of the Magnificat to "all sorts and conditions of men and women in the daily ordering of their lives." He relates the text to the "homeless, the workless and the hungry" of his time; he declares the church is at war with the mighty and rich on behalf of the social outcasts. He could see this before the turn of the 20thC - Is Fr Lawrence's sermon really so outrageous now as we see before us the hungry, workless and homeless of our own time. Before commenting further, please go back and look at those lines in Luke's gospel and think a bit more. Lawrence's call to turn the tables is him doing his job as a clerk in holy orders - preaching the gospel. Yours etc An Atheist What's the fuss about the use of "Father" - high church anglicans have used this form of address for donkeys years. Mary-Jane

8:16pm Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

pedalling paul wrote:
topumpire1 wrote:
The 10 commandments say" thou shall NOT steel" amongst others, if ANY clergy cannot agree to them, perhaps they should be in a different job, or his bosses should think seriously if he is right for the job, maybe he needs sacking!
...or STEAL even.......
Spelling 5/10
I notised that to, but decidid that it wood be far to anal to waste my tyme comenting on it
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]topumpire1[/bold] wrote: The 10 commandments say" thou shall NOT steel" amongst others, if ANY clergy cannot agree to them, perhaps they should be in a different job, or his bosses should think seriously if he is right for the job, maybe he needs sacking![/p][/quote]...or STEAL even....... Spelling 5/10[/p][/quote]I notised that to, but decidid that it wood be far to anal to waste my tyme comenting on it The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

8:20pm Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

Mary-Jane wrote:
I read only two sensible comments on this article, Fu Manchu's and Too Rad's response to him.
What I fail to see is anyone taking the trouble to go back to the text of the gospel on which Fr Lawrence was preaching: the Magnificat.
It is probably the most revoutionary text of the NTst - there is no meek and mild, let's all be kind to each other suggestion. The text is, in the first part a hymn of praise, however the second part is nothing less than a prophesy of revolutionary, table-turning socialism. This is no 21st century idea. In 1886 Hancock was preaching on this text pointing out that it is
"The Hymn of the Social Revolution" Hancock states: "the Magnificat has as its motive the scattering, ... by God's Son, of those classes in every nation which make wars, ... ... 'the proud', 'the mighty' and 'the rich'."

He goes on to declare Mary the mother of socialism and specifically recognises the importance of the Magnificat to "all sorts and conditions of men and women in the daily ordering of their lives." He relates the text to the "homeless, the workless and the hungry" of his time; he declares the church is at war with the mighty and rich on behalf of the social outcasts.
He could see this before the turn of the 20thC - Is Fr Lawrence's sermon really so outrageous now as we see before us the hungry, workless and homeless of our own time.
Before commenting further, please go back and look at those lines in Luke's gospel and think a bit more. Lawrence's call to turn the tables is him doing his job as a clerk in holy orders - preaching the gospel.
Yours etc
An Atheist

What's the fuss about the use of "Father" - high church anglicans have used this form of address for donkeys years.
Well, I started to read the first two paragraphs then became extremely bored so gave up.
[quote][p][bold]Mary-Jane[/bold] wrote: I read only two sensible comments on this article, Fu Manchu's and Too Rad's response to him. What I fail to see is anyone taking the trouble to go back to the text of the gospel on which Fr Lawrence was preaching: the Magnificat. It is probably the most revoutionary text of the NTst - there is no meek and mild, let's all be kind to each other suggestion. The text is, in the first part a hymn of praise, however the second part is nothing less than a prophesy of revolutionary, table-turning socialism. This is no 21st century idea. In 1886 Hancock was preaching on this text pointing out that it is "The Hymn of the Social Revolution" Hancock states: "the Magnificat has as its motive the scattering, ... by God's Son, of those classes in every nation which make wars, ... ... 'the proud', 'the mighty' and 'the rich'." He goes on to declare Mary the mother of socialism and specifically recognises the importance of the Magnificat to "all sorts and conditions of men and women in the daily ordering of their lives." He relates the text to the "homeless, the workless and the hungry" of his time; he declares the church is at war with the mighty and rich on behalf of the social outcasts. He could see this before the turn of the 20thC - Is Fr Lawrence's sermon really so outrageous now as we see before us the hungry, workless and homeless of our own time. Before commenting further, please go back and look at those lines in Luke's gospel and think a bit more. Lawrence's call to turn the tables is him doing his job as a clerk in holy orders - preaching the gospel. Yours etc An Atheist What's the fuss about the use of "Father" - high church anglicans have used this form of address for donkeys years.[/p][/quote]Well, I started to read the first two paragraphs then became extremely bored so gave up. The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

8:22pm Mon 21 Dec 09

pip007 says...

I expect that, as we speak, Jones is reinforcing his burglar alarm system and hiding the family silver. May the York Police come down on him like a ton of bricks for inciting crime in a city already notorious for petty theft ... because you can guarantee the Church won't.
I expect that, as we speak, Jones is reinforcing his burglar alarm system and hiding the family silver. May the York Police come down on him like a ton of bricks for inciting crime in a city already notorious for petty theft ... because you can guarantee the Church won't. pip007

9:28pm Mon 21 Dec 09

A taxpayer says...

We hope Tim can be forgiving tomorrow when he finds the lead on the roof has gone along with the church silver and collection boxes! We are poor and needed the money Tim but are too proud to ask for charity. The Church is a multi-national chain so it won't miss a few quids worth of gear. God Bless you at this time of need, merry christmas.
We hope Tim can be forgiving tomorrow when he finds the lead on the roof has gone along with the church silver and collection boxes! We are poor and needed the money Tim but are too proud to ask for charity. The Church is a multi-national chain so it won't miss a few quids worth of gear. God Bless you at this time of need, merry christmas. A taxpayer

9:53pm Mon 21 Dec 09

moleculeman says...

Mary-Jane wrote:
I read only two sensible comments on this article, Fu Manchu's and Too Rad's response to him.
What I fail to see is anyone taking the trouble to go back to the text of the gospel on which Fr Lawrence was preaching: the Magnificat.
It is probably the most revoutionary text of the NTst - there is no meek and mild, let's all be kind to each other suggestion. The text is, in the first part a hymn of praise, however the second part is nothing less than a prophesy of revolutionary, table-turning socialism. This is no 21st century idea. In 1886 Hancock was preaching on this text pointing out that it is
"The Hymn of the Social Revolution" Hancock states: "the Magnificat has as its motive the scattering, ... by God's Son, of those classes in every nation which make wars, ... ... 'the proud', 'the mighty' and 'the rich'."

He goes on to declare Mary the mother of socialism and specifically recognises the importance of the Magnificat to "all sorts and conditions of men and women in the daily ordering of their lives." He relates the text to the "homeless, the workless and the hungry" of his time; he declares the church is at war with the mighty and rich on behalf of the social outcasts.
He could see this before the turn of the 20thC - Is Fr Lawrence's sermon really so outrageous now as we see before us the hungry, workless and homeless of our own time.
Before commenting further, please go back and look at those lines in Luke's gospel and think a bit more. Lawrence's call to turn the tables is him doing his job as a clerk in holy orders - preaching the gospel.
Yours etc
An Atheist

What's the fuss about the use of "Father" - high church anglicans have used this form of address for donkeys years.
It could be that many of us don't give a flying one about xianity, and just enjoy pointing and laughing when they score an awesome footshot. If I wanted to hear or read sermons, I'd actually go to church.
[quote][p][bold]Mary-Jane[/bold] wrote: I read only two sensible comments on this article, Fu Manchu's and Too Rad's response to him. What I fail to see is anyone taking the trouble to go back to the text of the gospel on which Fr Lawrence was preaching: the Magnificat. It is probably the most revoutionary text of the NTst - there is no meek and mild, let's all be kind to each other suggestion. The text is, in the first part a hymn of praise, however the second part is nothing less than a prophesy of revolutionary, table-turning socialism. This is no 21st century idea. In 1886 Hancock was preaching on this text pointing out that it is "The Hymn of the Social Revolution" Hancock states: "the Magnificat has as its motive the scattering, ... by God's Son, of those classes in every nation which make wars, ... ... 'the proud', 'the mighty' and 'the rich'." He goes on to declare Mary the mother of socialism and specifically recognises the importance of the Magnificat to "all sorts and conditions of men and women in the daily ordering of their lives." He relates the text to the "homeless, the workless and the hungry" of his time; he declares the church is at war with the mighty and rich on behalf of the social outcasts. He could see this before the turn of the 20thC - Is Fr Lawrence's sermon really so outrageous now as we see before us the hungry, workless and homeless of our own time. Before commenting further, please go back and look at those lines in Luke's gospel and think a bit more. Lawrence's call to turn the tables is him doing his job as a clerk in holy orders - preaching the gospel. Yours etc An Atheist What's the fuss about the use of "Father" - high church anglicans have used this form of address for donkeys years.[/p][/quote]It could be that many of us don't give a flying one about xianity, and just enjoy pointing and laughing when they score an awesome footshot. If I wanted to hear or read sermons, I'd actually go to church. moleculeman

10:01pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Getagripulot says...

For one in such a position of trust, respect and responsibility, it is with great sadness that this man has broadcast such a stupid comment to the congregation and the people of York via The Press Newspaper. The man is a fool.
For one in such a position of trust, respect and responsibility, it is with great sadness that this man has broadcast such a stupid comment to the congregation and the people of York via The Press Newspaper. The man is a fool. Getagripulot

10:14pm Mon 21 Dec 09

steveisright says...

What about stealing from the church? They are afterall one of the richest business' in the world!!!
What about stealing from the church? They are afterall one of the richest business' in the world!!! steveisright

10:21pm Mon 21 Dec 09

markwb says...

Just what we need. More priests like this pissant. I agree with 'Steveisright'. He IS right. This prig of a priest should be advising the poor to steal from the church before they go anywhere else. I didn't realize there was loop hole in the eight commandment. I alway believed it meant what it said. DO NOT STEAL. Unbelievable. What is this world coming to?
Merry Christmas everyone.
Enjoy reading your posts.
Just what we need. More priests like this pissant. I agree with 'Steveisright'. He IS right. This prig of a priest should be advising the poor to steal from the church before they go anywhere else. I didn't realize there was loop hole in the eight commandment. I alway believed it meant what it said. DO NOT STEAL. Unbelievable. What is this world coming to? Merry Christmas everyone. Enjoy reading your posts. markwb

10:29pm Mon 21 Dec 09

steveisright says...

Four lads have just been up at Bishop Auckland magistrates for nicking lead from the roof of St Mary's in Barnard Castle!

I think the church needs to clarify its stance in this matter!!!
Four lads have just been up at Bishop Auckland magistrates for nicking lead from the roof of St Mary's in Barnard Castle! I think the church needs to clarify its stance in this matter!!! steveisright

10:51pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Taken for a Mug says...

People in need shouldn't have to steal in the first place. The biggest crime is committed by supermarket chains who dispose of food by the skip full each day.

The moral arguments put forward are as obscene as the profits these companies make.
People in need shouldn't have to steal in the first place. The biggest crime is committed by supermarket chains who dispose of food by the skip full each day. The moral arguments put forward are as obscene as the profits these companies make. Taken for a Mug

11:11pm Mon 21 Dec 09

Get-a-grip says...

If the clerical clowns of York and Canterbury don't sack Jones, the church must be disestablished and they and the rest of the bishops kicked out of the House of Lords.
If the clerical clowns of York and Canterbury don't sack Jones, the church must be disestablished and they and the rest of the bishops kicked out of the House of Lords. Get-a-grip

11:22pm Mon 21 Dec 09

yorkshirecalling says...

This priest is a burke. Perhaps if people stole from the vast wealth of the Anglican church then that'd help combat the injustice of society. I for one think the Rose Window would really add value to my modest dwelling.
This priest is a burke. Perhaps if people stole from the vast wealth of the Anglican church then that'd help combat the injustice of society. I for one think the Rose Window would really add value to my modest dwelling. yorkshirecalling

11:34pm Mon 21 Dec 09

The Cat Amongst The Pigeons says...

I think he's great! We have an Anarchist in the church. Rock On!!!!!!
I think he's great! We have an Anarchist in the church. Rock On!!!!!! The Cat Amongst The Pigeons

8:08am Tue 22 Dec 09

TooRad says...

their tax?
What choice does anyone have but to be their customer?

Hah! Another one who thinks paying tax is a retail concept!
Poor deluded fools conditioned by consumer capitalism consider themselves customers!
No wonder we're in the state we're in.
[quote]their tax? What choice does anyone have but to be their customer?[/quote] Hah! Another one who thinks paying tax is a retail concept! Poor deluded fools conditioned by consumer capitalism consider themselves customers! No wonder we're in the state we're in. TooRad

8:39am Tue 22 Dec 09

hustler says...

Media whore springs to mind with me I'm afraid. Must have been taking lessons at the Bishopthorpe press centre !
Media whore springs to mind with me I'm afraid. Must have been taking lessons at the Bishopthorpe press centre ! hustler

8:43am Tue 22 Dec 09

Glen_Quagmire says...

He's on BBC Breakfast at the moment. I don't believe the creationist version of events but I agree with what he's saying.
He's on BBC Breakfast at the moment. I don't believe the creationist version of events but I agree with what he's saying. Glen_Quagmire

11:39am Tue 22 Dec 09

evelyn_trent says...

Is it any surprise that people are abandoning the Church in droves when morons like this start spouting off? Show me a better example of the lunatics taking over the asylum...
Is it any surprise that people are abandoning the Church in droves when morons like this start spouting off? Show me a better example of the lunatics taking over the asylum... evelyn_trent

11:51am Tue 22 Dec 09

anastasia says...

AngryandFrustrated get real!! You've obviously never met anyone who has slipped through the system. You're right that some people are their own worst enemies when it comes to help, but the system is totally inflexible and if you can't tick the right boxes at the right time you get no help. Especially if you have any sort of mental health problems.
AngryandFrustrated get real!! You've obviously never met anyone who has slipped through the system. You're right that some people are their own worst enemies when it comes to help, but the system is totally inflexible and if you can't tick the right boxes at the right time you get no help. Especially if you have any sort of mental health problems. anastasia

3:11pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Bo Jolly says...

evelyn_trent wrote:
Is it any surprise that people are abandoning the Church in droves when morons like this start spouting off? Show me a better example of the lunatics taking over the asylum...
Actually, were it not for all the superstition and Iron Age mythology this is EXACTLY the sort of thing that might convince me that the church had a useful role to play in the world instead of just defending the status quo.
[quote][p][bold]evelyn_trent[/bold] wrote: Is it any surprise that people are abandoning the Church in droves when morons like this start spouting off? Show me a better example of the lunatics taking over the asylum...[/p][/quote]Actually, were it not for all the superstition and Iron Age mythology this is EXACTLY the sort of thing that might convince me that the church had a useful role to play in the world instead of just defending the status quo. Bo Jolly

6:08pm Tue 22 Dec 09

the butler says...

Mary- Jane , two wrongs do not make a right, Lips and tongues are also made for communication, Ask and thou shalt receive; I still say this man needs help with his sermons also studies.
His theme was ill prepared; His audience misconstrued his thoughts now here's a storm in a teacup..
Mary- Jane , two wrongs do not make a right, Lips and tongues are also made for communication, Ask and thou shalt receive; I still say this man needs help with his sermons also studies. His theme was ill prepared; His audience misconstrued his thoughts now here's a storm in a teacup.. the butler

8:11pm Tue 22 Dec 09

GoodDoc says...

I sincerely hope Father Tim takes the press to court over this ridiculous headline. Hows about that for libel? Where does he say word for word 'It's OK to shoplift'? In fact, he says very explicitly and clearly that it is NOT OK to shoplift and neither is calling on people to go out and nick stuff. Once again, a sensationalist headline from the press in order to sway its less intellectual readership into making some absurd assumptions. That's how to sell papers these days.
I sincerely hope Father Tim takes the press to court over this ridiculous headline. Hows about that for libel? Where does he say word for word 'It's OK to shoplift'? In fact, he says very explicitly and clearly that it is NOT OK to shoplift and neither is calling on people to go out and nick stuff. Once again, a sensationalist headline from the press in order to sway its less intellectual readership into making some absurd assumptions. That's how to sell papers these days. GoodDoc

9:25pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Ma Sands says...

@ GoodDoc
Though his advice is SO sweetly worded, it still is starkly an urging to shoplift.
Too, I am made sad by the man's obvious lack of a knowledge of Jesus and His Way.......does not the man believe that Jesus can do? And that God can never contradict Himself? And that the power of the Holy Spirit is as available to us today as it was when Jesus went back to heaven so that we could have it?
@ GoodDoc Though his advice is SO sweetly worded, it still is starkly an urging to shoplift. Too, I am made sad by the man's obvious lack of a knowledge of Jesus and His Way.......does not the man believe that Jesus can do? And that God can never contradict Himself? And that the power of the Holy Spirit is as available to us today as it was when Jesus went back to heaven so that we could have it? Ma Sands

10:33pm Tue 22 Dec 09

Get-a-grip says...

I sincerely hope Father Tim takes the press to court over this ridiculous headline. Hows about that for libel? Where does he say word for word 'It's OK to shoplift'? In fact, he says very explicitly and clearly that it is NOT OK to shoplift and neither is calling on people to go out and nick stuff.


Read the words -
Instead, I would rather that they shoplift. My advice, as a Christian priest, is to shoplift.


And where's the attention seeking Arch Comedian of York in all this? Does he advocate theft as well?
[quote] I sincerely hope Father Tim takes the press to court over this ridiculous headline. Hows about that for libel? Where does he say word for word 'It's OK to shoplift'? In fact, he says very explicitly and clearly that it is NOT OK to shoplift and neither is calling on people to go out and nick stuff. [/quote] Read the words - [quote] Instead, I would rather that they shoplift. My advice, as a Christian priest, is to shoplift.[/quote] And where's the attention seeking Arch Comedian of York in all this? Does he advocate theft as well? Get-a-grip

10:56pm Tue 22 Dec 09

iflyjetzzz says...

The Church of England is a large chain.
I suggest that the desperate take Fr Tim's advice and steal everything of value from the Church of England. If you're going to break a commandment, you might as well go all the way and take from the church.
The Church of England is a large chain. I suggest that the desperate take Fr Tim's advice and steal everything of value from the Church of England. If you're going to break a commandment, you might as well go all the way and take from the church. iflyjetzzz

1:05am Wed 23 Dec 09

germinator says...

How can he say prostitution is worse than stealing? Prostitution is a victimless service, stealing always requires a victim. I spose he thinks taking drugs is worse than stealing too.
I agree, the church is a large chain, yep steal from them, throw their money in the air and what God wants he can take and whatever hits the ground is yours.
How can he say prostitution is worse than stealing? Prostitution is a victimless service, stealing always requires a victim. I spose he thinks taking drugs is worse than stealing too. I agree, the church is a large chain, yep steal from them, throw their money in the air and what God wants he can take and whatever hits the ground is yours. germinator

6:23pm Wed 23 Dec 09

Larry Jones says...

I read Father Tim Jones' sermon and I fully agree with what he says. I would like to add that it is my belief that GREED is the worst sin in this world. GREED is the cause of so much grief and suffering. Take a look around you and ask yourself...."what caused the world's recent financial crisis"? Easy answer.....GREED by those at the top caused it.
I read Father Tim Jones' sermon and I fully agree with what he says. I would like to add that it is my belief that GREED is the worst sin in this world. GREED is the cause of so much grief and suffering. Take a look around you and ask yourself...."what caused the world's recent financial crisis"? Easy answer.....GREED by those at the top caused it. Larry Jones

4:15pm Sun 27 Dec 09

Smiling Carcass says...

Matthew 6:
“3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
4 How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?”
Matthew 6: “3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him; 4 How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?” Smiling Carcass

4:33pm Sun 27 Dec 09

Smiling Carcass says...

Though shalt not steal? Is that the shops goods, my wages by unscrupulous employers, my money by inflated prices, fraud, usury, banks bonuses paid, without consent, from my money?? what constitutes 'stealing'?

Matthew 6:
“3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
4 How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?”
Though shalt not steal? Is that the shops goods, my wages by unscrupulous employers, my money by inflated prices, fraud, usury, banks bonuses paid, without consent, from my money?? what constitutes 'stealing'? Matthew 6: “3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him; 4 How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?” Smiling Carcass

6:09pm Sun 27 Dec 09

Ma Sands says...

@ "Smiling Carcass".....

Your quote is truly from the Bible sir, but, be cautious, here.....(your quotation is out of Matt. 12, btw.... :) .....that was a question of Jesus eating on the Sabbath day --a law which by His coming to earth, He had fulfilled & done away with.

Also, in that Bible, in the New Testament, is the adjurement to obey those that are over you. And, in the Old Testament, a Proverb states that one, when he is caught stealing bread for which he needed so as not to starve, nor his family, that he must repay it seven times.......
@ "Smiling Carcass"..... Your quote is truly from the Bible sir, but, be cautious, here.....(your quotation is out of Matt. 12, btw.... :) .....that was a question of Jesus eating on the Sabbath day --a law which by His coming to earth, He had fulfilled & done away with. Also, in that Bible, in the New Testament, is the adjurement to obey those that are over you. And, in the Old Testament, a Proverb states that one, when he is caught stealing bread for which he needed so as not to starve, nor his family, that he must repay it seven times....... Ma Sands

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