COUNCIL STORM 1: York bosses rapped - They refused to answer resident's questions - Watchdog orders U-turn - UPDATED

COUNCIL STORM 1: York bosses rapped - They refused to answer resident's questions - Watchdog orders U-turn

COUNCIL STORM 1: York bosses rapped - They refused to answer resident's questions - Watchdog orders U-turn

Updated in News York Press: Photograph of the Author by , News editor

YORK council bosses have been rapped by a national watchdog for wrongly refusing to answer questions or release information.

City of York Council had claimed local resident Mike Hammill was being "vexatious" in requesting various documents and answers from the authority, but the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) has found in Mr Hammill's favour.

Andrew White, group manager for the ICO, has ordered the council to issue new responses to seven Freedom of Information (FOI) requests by Mr Hammill August 11, or face potential High Court action.

>>> Read his decision notice here.

It is the latest criticism of the council, which was recently revealed to be falling far short of national targets for responding to FOI requests on time, and which has been accused by opposition parties of excessive secrecy.

The case has emerged on the same day as the Local Government Ombudsman issued a critical report of how the council deals with complaints.

In one of his seven requests, Mr Hammill asked for details of meetings that council chief executive Kersten England attended outside York from April to November 2013, including the dates, organisations and venues involved. The council said it was a "random and banal question" and said: "No conclusion could be drawn about Ms England's performance from the information requested, whether it shows she spends a lot, or a little, of her time in the city."

The council said Mr Hammill had not indicated any trouble arranging an appointment, but Mr White said the council seemed to have assumed that was his motive, with no discussion.

Mr White said: "The Commissioner considers that there is value in this request; that being the accountability and transparency of the work schedule of the person holding the most senior position in the council."

Mr Hammill had also asked in June 2013 about payments to various bodies involved in the 2012 "Wonderland" festival in Museum Gardens. He received a partial answer after more than three months, and was told a further five months later that his remaining questions had been deemed "vexatious". The Freedom of Information act says authorities must respond within four weeks.

Mr Hammill asked questions last July relating to the Local Plan, but after ongoing correspondence failed to yield the information, his request was refused in February this year, again having been deemed vexatious.

Last August, he asked several questions about how the council complied with legislation concerning access to information and meetings. Again, the council refused his request after six months, again citing the "vexatious" clause in the Freedom of Information Act, which allows councils to withhold information.

Mr White said all Mr Hammill's requests had serious purpose and value, and said: "The Commissioner strongly believes in the value of such subjects and could to no degree class them as having no or little value."

He said some of the requests were generated by the council's "less than adequate responses" and could have been avoided had the council complied with the FOI Act. He said the requests went "to the heart of the legislation, in so much as they relate to accountability and transparency".

Mr Hammill told The Press he was delighted the ICO had found in his favour but said the council had wasted public money by dragging the issue out.

He said: "They really seem to hate me for asking these questions and it's nice to have the council properly beaten by this ICO ruling."

In its submission to the ICO, the council said Mr Hammill had sent many requests, "interspersed with complaints, accusations and abuse, but the ICO said no evidence of that was given.

Mr Hammill said: "It is scary to think taxpayers are thought of in this way. If you question something or ask about something, they immediately jump on the defensive."

Ian Floyd, City of York Council's director of customer and business support said this evening: "We’re committed to being accountable for the work we do and take seriously this feedback from the ICO.

"The council's concerns were about the disclosure of commercially sensitive information, the sharing of inappropriate personal information of individuals with whom meetings have been held, and the personal safety of a council employee.

"We felt that this series of FOI requests was vexatious, however we will of course comply in full with the ICO ruling".

Comments (102)

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6:14pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Justin7 says...

Now the Beer reviewer is getting in on the act. Is this a political campaign by the Press?
Now the Beer reviewer is getting in on the act. Is this a political campaign by the Press? Justin7
  • Score: 2876

6:15pm Tue 15 Jul 14

AnotherPointofView says...

This council being secretive? Surely not!

Haha the truth will out.

Why not resign now, it would be honourable, but that's not going to happen is it?

You will be out next year!
This council being secretive? Surely not! Haha the truth will out. Why not resign now, it would be honourable, but that's not going to happen is it? You will be out next year! AnotherPointofView
  • Score: 2702

6:20pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Geoffers says...

Well done Mr Hammill!
Well done Mr Hammill! Geoffers
  • Score: 2717

6:21pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Garrowby Turnoff says...

Gawd knows who this ICO organisation is! I don't know if they've teeth or if they're just a privately formed quango. Their website doesn't seem to give any info as to what'll happen if the Council just ignore the "decision".

Don't hold your breath too long Mr Hammill...

http://search.ico.or
g.uk/ico/search?q=yo
rk
Gawd knows who this ICO organisation is! I don't know if they've teeth or if they're just a privately formed quango. Their website doesn't seem to give any info as to what'll happen if the Council just ignore the "decision". Don't hold your breath too long Mr Hammill... http://search.ico.or g.uk/ico/search?q=yo rk Garrowby Turnoff
  • Score: 2431

6:32pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

City of York Council declined to comment today when contacted by The Press.


I wonder why?

They have been well and truly caught out here, and it's time that those responsible for covering up, were held to account.
[quote] City of York Council declined to comment today when contacted by The Press. [/quote] I wonder why? They have been well and truly caught out here, and it's time that those responsible for covering up, were held to account. Badgers Drift
  • Score: 2377

6:42pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Bad magic says...

Justin7 wrote:
Now the Beer reviewer is getting in on the act. Is this a political campaign by the Press?
Gav does a considerable amount more for the Press than his beer and pub reviews. He's the news editor, click on the link below his picture to see. This piece most definitely comes under his purview.
[quote][p][bold]Justin7[/bold] wrote: Now the Beer reviewer is getting in on the act. Is this a political campaign by the Press?[/p][/quote]Gav does a considerable amount more for the Press than his beer and pub reviews. He's the news editor, click on the link below his picture to see. This piece most definitely comes under his purview. Bad magic
  • Score: 2119

6:47pm Tue 15 Jul 14

courier46 says...

How can the local plan go ahead now.I`ve put my complaints into the council about the plan and just cannot trust this council with anything let alone something on this scale.
How can the local plan go ahead now.I`ve put my complaints into the council about the plan and just cannot trust this council with anything let alone something on this scale. courier46
  • Score: 2612

7:24pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Cheeky face says...

It has been well suspected since 2009 that York council fudge replies, avoid replies, or spoil apologies with excuses.

James Alexander promised to be open and honest when I escalated difficult questions on Coppergate/Lendal Br to him; that was Feb 2014.. I am still awaiting a response to 7 follow up questions on Coppergate; submitted to Transport Planners on 3rd June 2014.

My Lendal Br concerns are to go to them soon.
It has been well suspected since 2009 that York council fudge replies, avoid replies, or spoil apologies with excuses. James Alexander promised to be open and honest when I escalated difficult questions on Coppergate/Lendal Br to him; that was Feb 2014.. I am still awaiting a response to 7 follow up questions on Coppergate; submitted to Transport Planners on 3rd June 2014. My Lendal Br concerns are to go to them soon. Cheeky face
  • Score: 2032

7:31pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

In its submission to the ICO, the council said Mr Hammill had sent many requests, "interspersed with complaints, accusations and abuse, but the ICO said no evidence of that was given.


So the council claimed that Mr Hammill was 'abusive' but didn't provide any evidence?

They seem to make a habit of claiming that citizens are abusive, and using this as an excuse for taking certain actions, or not as is the case here.

They blocked a resident from the council's email network for the same reason, but refused to provide any evidence, even through an FOI request.

Well this time their excuse has been seen for what it really is - a false one, with no substantiation.

They just cannot be trusted!
[quote] In its submission to the ICO, the council said Mr Hammill had sent many requests, "interspersed with complaints, accusations and abuse, but the ICO said no evidence of that was given. [/quote] So the council claimed that Mr Hammill was 'abusive' but didn't provide any evidence? They seem to make a habit of claiming that citizens are abusive, and using this as an excuse for taking certain actions, or not as is the case here. They blocked a resident from the council's email network for the same reason, but refused to provide any evidence, even through an FOI request. Well this time their excuse has been seen for what it really is - a false one, with no substantiation. They just cannot be trusted! Badgers Drift
  • Score: 2032

7:41pm Tue 15 Jul 14

AnotherPointofView says...

Badgers Drift wrote:
City of York Council declined to comment today when contacted by The Press.


I wonder why?

They have been well and truly caught out here, and it's time that those responsible for covering up, were held to account.
The final paragraph about the council refusing to comment on an article criticising it for not answering questions really takes the biscuit!
[quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: [quote] City of York Council declined to comment today when contacted by The Press. [/quote] I wonder why? They have been well and truly caught out here, and it's time that those responsible for covering up, were held to account.[/p][/quote]The final paragraph about the council refusing to comment on an article criticising it for not answering questions really takes the biscuit! AnotherPointofView
  • Score: 2296

7:43pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

I see that the score hacker imbecile has just changed all the scores, but, it won't help the council. They are banged to rights, and yet more cheating with these scores makes them look even more suspect.
I see that the score hacker imbecile has just changed all the scores, but, it won't help the council. They are banged to rights, and yet more cheating with these scores makes them look even more suspect. Badgers Drift
  • Score: 3071

7:53pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

In one of his seven requests, Mr Hammill asked for details of meetings that council chief executive Kersten England attended outside York from April to November 2013, including the dates, organisations and venues involved. The council said it was a "random and banal question" and said: "No conclusion could be drawn about Ms England's performance from the information requested, whether it shows she spends a lot, or a little, of her time in the city."


It's not hard to work out who was respnsible for having Mr Hammill labelled 'vexatious' and abusive is it?

Clearly the council has things to hide?

I hope that the Chief Executive's activities as a trustee of dubious charity Nesta, will be exposed by the FOI. She seems to spend a lot of time around the country at Nesta events, whilst she was being paid to do her job at the council. Lets see how these are explained?
[quote] In one of his seven requests, Mr Hammill asked for details of meetings that council chief executive Kersten England attended outside York from April to November 2013, including the dates, organisations and venues involved. The council said it was a "random and banal question" and said: "No conclusion could be drawn about Ms England's performance from the information requested, whether it shows she spends a lot, or a little, of her time in the city." [/quote] It's not hard to work out who was respnsible for having Mr Hammill labelled 'vexatious' and abusive is it? Clearly the council has things to hide? I hope that the Chief Executive's activities as a trustee of dubious charity Nesta, will be exposed by the FOI. She seems to spend a lot of time around the country at Nesta events, whilst she was being paid to do her job at the council. Lets see how these are explained? Badgers Drift
  • Score: 4885

8:09pm Tue 15 Jul 14

piaggio1 says...

Wonder if she gets the train...??????
On these journeys.....?????
Dont worry luv .IT will all come out...
Wonder if she gets the train...?????? On these journeys.....????? Dont worry luv .IT will all come out... piaggio1
  • Score: 4915

8:19pm Tue 15 Jul 14

yorkandproud says...

Ha ha ha pathetic york press. You're score person makes you look like fools . Anything that is slightly controversial , the score monster moves in. Get real you idiots..
Ha ha ha pathetic york press. You're score person makes you look like fools . Anything that is slightly controversial , the score monster moves in. Get real you idiots.. yorkandproud
  • Score: 2315

8:21pm Tue 15 Jul 14

MouseHouse says...

This is a resignation matter, pure and simple. However here in York people who are paid to take responsibility take the money buy shy away from the responsibility. I point directly at the principal of York College and the senior leaders of the City Council. They have performed and behaved appallingly.
This is a resignation matter, pure and simple. However here in York people who are paid to take responsibility take the money buy shy away from the responsibility. I point directly at the principal of York College and the senior leaders of the City Council. They have performed and behaved appallingly. MouseHouse
  • Score: 2090

8:21pm Tue 15 Jul 14

ColdAsChristmas says...

Looks like the Council score adjuster is working late. But how can Mrs England justify a salary of over £100K pa while even more of our cash is being wasted and she not doing her job in overseeing a just and transparent Council. She needs replacing along with many of the Councillors. While Labour is having a cull and resignations, apart from the 20's plenty fool the real culprits remain standing. What hope is there?
Looks like the Council score adjuster is working late. But how can Mrs England justify a salary of over £100K pa while even more of our cash is being wasted and she not doing her job in overseeing a just and transparent Council. She needs replacing along with many of the Councillors. While Labour is having a cull and resignations, apart from the 20's plenty fool the real culprits remain standing. What hope is there? ColdAsChristmas
  • Score: 2119

8:40pm Tue 15 Jul 14

DooftheDog says...

Garrowby Turnoff wrote:
Gawd knows who this ICO organisation is! I don't know if they've teeth or if they're just a privately formed quango. Their website doesn't seem to give any info as to what'll happen if the Council just ignore the "decision".

Don't hold your breath too long Mr Hammill...

http://search.ico.or

g.uk/ico/search?q=yo

rk
The ICO is the Information Commissioner's Office. The Commissioner is appointed by the Crown and reports annually to parliament. ICO enforces data protection and freedom of information legislation. It can advise, prosecute and impose monetary penalties. http://ico.org.uk/ab
out_us/our_organisat
ion/introduction
[quote][p][bold]Garrowby Turnoff[/bold] wrote: Gawd knows who this ICO organisation is! I don't know if they've teeth or if they're just a privately formed quango. Their website doesn't seem to give any info as to what'll happen if the Council just ignore the "decision". Don't hold your breath too long Mr Hammill... http://search.ico.or g.uk/ico/search?q=yo rk[/p][/quote]The ICO is the Information Commissioner's Office. The Commissioner is appointed by the Crown and reports annually to parliament. ICO enforces data protection and freedom of information legislation. It can advise, prosecute and impose monetary penalties. http://ico.org.uk/ab out_us/our_organisat ion/introduction DooftheDog
  • Score: 2056

8:59pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Dogwithabone says...

Congratulations Mr Hammill for taking the time and effort to keep going with this. It is so easy to just give up and fade away from injustice.
I for one would buy you a pint for your endevours to get answers and results.
Congratulations Mr Hammill for taking the time and effort to keep going with this. It is so easy to just give up and fade away from injustice. I for one would buy you a pint for your endevours to get answers and results. Dogwithabone
  • Score: 2118

9:16pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Dogwithabone says...

Hello people on this press website.
Please can someone explain why my comment has a score of -21 but there are no responses to what I have said.
I find this a bit weird !!!
How does this work ??????
Hello people on this press website. Please can someone explain why my comment has a score of -21 but there are no responses to what I have said. I find this a bit weird !!! How does this work ?????? Dogwithabone
  • Score: 2045

9:20pm Tue 15 Jul 14

gmsgop says...

Well done mr Hammill- really must have taken some time and courage to do this.

The ICo really banged the council to rights on this one in VERY clear terms- but let's be in no doubt - the council repeatedly vilified you and impugned you with no evidence- as confirmed by the ICO. A careful reading brings up multiple insults to you which should be addressed in another place. The Auditors and Councillors should review these FOIs and discipline the staff who wrote them- the content, attitude and lack of respect was appalling- the ICO is clear- the council was wrong on every level. The 17 page judgement on the fragile attempt to avoid answering your valid questions shows the council for what it is- you were not vexatious just tenacious-i for one am delighted you stuck to your guns- citizens should be able to ask the most basic of questions, like lets be knowing where, when and why our most expensive officers are out of the city - why shouldn't we know this- especially when so much is going wrong -

Bravo Sir! I'll buy you a drink for your pain and suffering

Gwen Swinburn
Well done mr Hammill- really must have taken some time and courage to do this. The ICo really banged the council to rights on this one in VERY clear terms- but let's be in no doubt - the council repeatedly vilified you and impugned you with no evidence- as confirmed by the ICO. A careful reading brings up multiple insults to you which should be addressed in another place. The Auditors and Councillors should review these FOIs and discipline the staff who wrote them- the content, attitude and lack of respect was appalling- the ICO is clear- the council was wrong on every level. The 17 page judgement on the fragile attempt to avoid answering your valid questions shows the council for what it is- you were not vexatious just tenacious-i for one am delighted you stuck to your guns- citizens should be able to ask the most basic of questions, like lets be knowing where, when and why our most expensive officers are out of the city - why shouldn't we know this- especially when so much is going wrong - Bravo Sir! I'll buy you a drink for your pain and suffering Gwen Swinburn gmsgop
  • Score: 2045

9:21pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Dogwithabone says...

and now I am +24 ?????
Others are at 1000+ when a while ago they were minus numbers too?????
Confused dot com or what !!!!!!!!!
and now I am +24 ????? Others are at 1000+ when a while ago they were minus numbers too????? Confused dot com or what !!!!!!!!! Dogwithabone
  • Score: 708

9:23pm Tue 15 Jul 14

may2015 says...

^ What he said, and to the rest of you who've kept on with this, a truly admirable effort in seeking the truth and justice. Surely not long until they're forced to answer the rest of the difficult questions in the rest of your requests (Paul, Gwen etc.) I for one can't wait to see their scrutinised responses !
^ What he said, and to the rest of you who've kept on with this, a truly admirable effort in seeking the truth and justice. Surely not long until they're forced to answer the rest of the difficult questions in the rest of your requests (Paul, Gwen etc.) I for one can't wait to see their scrutinised responses ! may2015
  • Score: 595

9:31pm Tue 15 Jul 14

TTurner says...

Garrowby Turnoff wrote:
Gawd knows who this ICO organisation is! I don't know if they've teeth or if they're just a privately formed quango. Their website doesn't seem to give any info as to what'll happen if the Council just ignore the "decision".

Don't hold your breath too long Mr Hammill...

http://search.ico.or

g.uk/ico/search?q=yo

rk
The news story itself gives a gentle hint of the possible consequences when it says that the Council can be taken to court if it does not comply. So no need to search the ICO's website, it's there in the report.

They're an independent body reporting to Parliament, by the way.
[quote][p][bold]Garrowby Turnoff[/bold] wrote: Gawd knows who this ICO organisation is! I don't know if they've teeth or if they're just a privately formed quango. Their website doesn't seem to give any info as to what'll happen if the Council just ignore the "decision". Don't hold your breath too long Mr Hammill... http://search.ico.or g.uk/ico/search?q=yo rk[/p][/quote]The news story itself gives a gentle hint of the possible consequences when it says that the Council can be taken to court if it does not comply. So no need to search the ICO's website, it's there in the report. They're an independent body reporting to Parliament, by the way. TTurner
  • Score: 1773

9:45pm Tue 15 Jul 14

gmsgop says...

may2015 wrote:
^ What he said, and to the rest of you who've kept on with this, a truly admirable effort in seeking the truth and justice. Surely not long until they're forced to answer the rest of the difficult questions in the rest of your requests (Paul, Gwen etc.) I for one can't wait to see their scrutinised responses !
One thing I find particularly distasteful, as quoted by the ICO, is the constant barrage of abuse metered out to Mr Hammill by the council, none of it had any evidence to support it. Did the authors of the response to the ICO really think that they would get away with unsubstantiated abuse?

I for one want to know who wrote such inflammatory remarks, who cleared them, was it Kersten England herself? These staffers need to be held to account, not just for unjustly accusing Mr Hammill for being vexatious - but the evil and unsubstantiated way in which they did it. The ICO did right to expose this - I was honestly shocked at the city if York response - I expected a professional approach, and was disappointed.

Will our audit and governance committee act?

Gwen Swinburn
[quote][p][bold]may2015[/bold] wrote: ^ What he said, and to the rest of you who've kept on with this, a truly admirable effort in seeking the truth and justice. Surely not long until they're forced to answer the rest of the difficult questions in the rest of your requests (Paul, Gwen etc.) I for one can't wait to see their scrutinised responses ![/p][/quote]One thing I find particularly distasteful, as quoted by the ICO, is the constant barrage of abuse metered out to Mr Hammill by the council, none of it had any evidence to support it. Did the authors of the response to the ICO really think that they would get away with unsubstantiated abuse? I for one want to know who wrote such inflammatory remarks, who cleared them, was it Kersten England herself? These staffers need to be held to account, not just for unjustly accusing Mr Hammill for being vexatious - but the evil and unsubstantiated way in which they did it. The ICO did right to expose this - I was honestly shocked at the city if York response - I expected a professional approach, and was disappointed. Will our audit and governance committee act? Gwen Swinburn gmsgop
  • Score: 1980

10:30pm Tue 15 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

No comments from any council/labour apologists, only the tampering by the mark down retard.

Hardly surprised they are keeping stum - too embarrassed to attempt a response to this indefensible conduct - truly shocking, and an utter disgrace.

I await more skeletons coming out of the cupboard to sink the culprits without trace........
No comments from any council/labour apologists, only the tampering by the mark down retard. Hardly surprised they are keeping stum - too embarrassed to attempt a response to this indefensible conduct - truly shocking, and an utter disgrace. I await more skeletons coming out of the cupboard to sink the culprits without trace........ Badgers Drift
  • Score: -90

10:32pm Tue 15 Jul 14

oi oi savaloy says...

AT the end of the day, no one on the council, KE, JA, TS-L,FERRET,PE-D or any of the other bunch of incompetents are going to resign for their incompetence, the York council to this lot is just an easy cash cow, if any of these idiots had to put in 37 hours or more in any private sector job they would have been let go a long time ago! You only have to look at the track record for JA and TS-L to see what a couple of losers them 2 are!
AT the end of the day, no one on the council, KE, JA, TS-L,FERRET,PE-D or any of the other bunch of incompetents are going to resign for their incompetence, the York council to this lot is just an easy cash cow, if any of these idiots had to put in 37 hours or more in any private sector job they would have been let go a long time ago! You only have to look at the track record for JA and TS-L to see what a couple of losers them 2 are! oi oi savaloy
  • Score: -99

11:21pm Tue 15 Jul 14

may2015 says...

Yes, would agree. I've read quite a few of the exchanges between the public and council, Mr. Hamills and others and yes very rude considering not one that I saw was abusive or vexatious to them. At worst openly critical (not a bad thing) but often just formal, concise and neutrally-toned. Some very important questions were asked and rudely ignored or dismissed indeed.

Also, Savaloy I'd agree that people in corporate/business world get brought to account and I think if same rules applied here some of the lower end staff would have their p45 by now but amongst the "leaders" and those that have been dropped/quit (one obvious anomaly, but that's been covered elsewhere) is something I hope will be uncovered by the correct answering of the FOI requests. Its initials are CP and I find it very worrying....

Leaders in business world stay at the top despite being at best inadequate and at worst harmful to their companies too, by being members of clubs and societies, being part of allegiances and secret deals. The most telling thing will be what positions they all get in other councils/agencies/ot
her public bodies after this is over.....
Yes, would agree. I've read quite a few of the exchanges between the public and council, Mr. Hamills and others and yes very rude considering not one that I saw was abusive or vexatious to them. At worst openly critical (not a bad thing) but often just formal, concise and neutrally-toned. Some very important questions were asked and rudely ignored or dismissed indeed. Also, Savaloy I'd agree that people in corporate/business world get brought to account and I think if same rules applied here some of the lower end staff would have their p45 by now but amongst the "leaders" and those that have been dropped/quit (one obvious anomaly, but that's been covered elsewhere) is something I hope will be uncovered by the correct answering of the FOI requests. Its initials are CP and I find it very worrying.... Leaders in business world stay at the top despite being at best inadequate and at worst harmful to their companies too, by being members of clubs and societies, being part of allegiances and secret deals. The most telling thing will be what positions they all get in other councils/agencies/ot her public bodies after this is over..... may2015
  • Score: -262

11:23pm Tue 15 Jul 14

may2015 says...

*but not those that have been dropped/quit, sorry
*but not those that have been dropped/quit, sorry may2015
  • Score: -255

11:37pm Tue 15 Jul 14

jay, york says...

Ian Floyd, City of York Council's director of customer and business support said this evening: "We’re committed to being accountable for the work we do and take seriously this feedback from the ICO.
This cyc have never been accountable and do not take anything seriously - and this is the real problem. They just think they can get their own way all the time - whether it be legal or not! And if a challenge or a legal ruling should be made against them - they simply state that they do not accept it. Just not good enough!
Ian Floyd, City of York Council's director of customer and business support said this evening: "We’re committed to being accountable for the work we do and take seriously this feedback from the ICO. This cyc have never been accountable and do not take anything seriously - and this is the real problem. They just think they can get their own way all the time - whether it be legal or not! And if a challenge or a legal ruling should be made against them - they simply state that they do not accept it. Just not good enough! jay, york
  • Score: -231

11:40pm Tue 15 Jul 14

the-e-man says...

The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots.
We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it.
The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.
The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots. We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it. The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny. the-e-man
  • Score: -204

11:47pm Tue 15 Jul 14

jay, york says...

gmsgop wrote:
may2015 wrote: ^ What he said, and to the rest of you who've kept on with this, a truly admirable effort in seeking the truth and justice. Surely not long until they're forced to answer the rest of the difficult questions in the rest of your requests (Paul, Gwen etc.) I for one can't wait to see their scrutinised responses !
One thing I find particularly distasteful, as quoted by the ICO, is the constant barrage of abuse metered out to Mr Hammill by the council, none of it had any evidence to support it. Did the authors of the response to the ICO really think that they would get away with unsubstantiated abuse? I for one want to know who wrote such inflammatory remarks, who cleared them, was it Kersten England herself? These staffers need to be held to account, not just for unjustly accusing Mr Hammill for being vexatious - but the evil and unsubstantiated way in which they did it. The ICO did right to expose this - I was honestly shocked at the city if York response - I expected a professional approach, and was disappointed. Will our audit and governance committee act? Gwen Swinburn
Very very well said Gwen!
[quote][p][bold]gmsgop[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]may2015[/bold] wrote: ^ What he said, and to the rest of you who've kept on with this, a truly admirable effort in seeking the truth and justice. Surely not long until they're forced to answer the rest of the difficult questions in the rest of your requests (Paul, Gwen etc.) I for one can't wait to see their scrutinised responses ![/p][/quote]One thing I find particularly distasteful, as quoted by the ICO, is the constant barrage of abuse metered out to Mr Hammill by the council, none of it had any evidence to support it. Did the authors of the response to the ICO really think that they would get away with unsubstantiated abuse? I for one want to know who wrote such inflammatory remarks, who cleared them, was it Kersten England herself? These staffers need to be held to account, not just for unjustly accusing Mr Hammill for being vexatious - but the evil and unsubstantiated way in which they did it. The ICO did right to expose this - I was honestly shocked at the city if York response - I expected a professional approach, and was disappointed. Will our audit and governance committee act? Gwen Swinburn[/p][/quote]Very very well said Gwen! jay, york
  • Score: -94

11:57pm Tue 15 Jul 14

jay, york says...

the-e-man wrote:
The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots. We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it. The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.
Everyone who voted for them believed all the hype they gave out - they always seemed to be so believable. But now we all know the truth - they are just a set of muppets and control freaks who frankly do not have a clue as to what they are doing..
[quote][p][bold]the-e-man[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots. We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it. The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.[/p][/quote]Everyone who voted for them believed all the hype they gave out - they always seemed to be so believable. But now we all know the truth - they are just a set of muppets and control freaks who frankly do not have a clue as to what they are doing.. jay, york
  • Score: -42

12:36am Wed 16 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

the-e-man wrote:
The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots. We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it. The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.
Only partly right, because the politicised officers behind many of these issues, and who are complicit with the Labour group in pushing dogmatic ideological policies were not elected.
[quote][p][bold]the-e-man[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots. We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it. The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.[/p][/quote]Only partly right, because the politicised officers behind many of these issues, and who are complicit with the Labour group in pushing dogmatic ideological policies were not elected. Badgers Drift
  • Score: -165

7:27am Wed 16 Jul 14

oi oi savaloy says...

the-e-man wrote:
The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots.
We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it.
The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.
20,297 people voted liebor in the 2011 local elections, 43,897 didn't vote liebor in that same election! Less than 1/3 of the good people of York made an idiotic decision that night. JA is in his position by 2211 votes TS-L is in his position by 1528 votes, the writing is on the wall for TS-L the people of Acomb will vote him out due to Beckfield Lane tip.. JA will go simply because he is currently the most hated man in York!
[quote][p][bold]the-e-man[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots. We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it. The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.[/p][/quote]20,297 people voted liebor in the 2011 local elections, 43,897 didn't vote liebor in that same election! Less than 1/3 of the good people of York made an idiotic decision that night. JA is in his position by 2211 votes TS-L is in his position by 1528 votes, the writing is on the wall for TS-L the people of Acomb will vote him out due to Beckfield Lane tip.. JA will go simply because he is currently the most hated man in York! oi oi savaloy
  • Score: -182

7:49am Wed 16 Jul 14

piaggio1 says...

4901 !!!!!
Me best one yet. Come on YOU can do better.
Or do YOU know the story as well...seems most employees do........
4901 !!!!! Me best one yet. Come on YOU can do better. Or do YOU know the story as well...seems most employees do........ piaggio1
  • Score: -146

7:50am Wed 16 Jul 14

The Analyst says...

Hi - does anyone have an email address or postal address to lodge a formal complaint against York City Council? I no longer have any trust in them and feel they are not representing us in the manner in which they should and now feel it is time for something significant to happen. The current Council are simply damaging our City and we cannot let this continue.

Thanks!
Hi - does anyone have an email address or postal address to lodge a formal complaint against York City Council? I no longer have any trust in them and feel they are not representing us in the manner in which they should and now feel it is time for something significant to happen. The current Council are simply damaging our City and we cannot let this continue. Thanks! The Analyst
  • Score: -72

7:51am Wed 16 Jul 14

the-e-man says...

Badgers Drift wrote:
the-e-man wrote:
The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots. We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it. The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.
Only partly right, because the politicised officers behind many of these issues, and who are complicit with the Labour group in pushing dogmatic ideological policies were not elected.
I Agree. When they are finally voted out there will be such a mess left to clear up (just as there was after the last Labour Government left power) we can only hope the truth will come out. The way the present Council work I suspect that before they leave power there will be some officers leaving their posts with payoffs but subject to confidentiality clauses.
[quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the-e-man[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots. We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it. The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.[/p][/quote]Only partly right, because the politicised officers behind many of these issues, and who are complicit with the Labour group in pushing dogmatic ideological policies were not elected.[/p][/quote]I Agree. When they are finally voted out there will be such a mess left to clear up (just as there was after the last Labour Government left power) we can only hope the truth will come out. The way the present Council work I suspect that before they leave power there will be some officers leaving their posts with payoffs but subject to confidentiality clauses. the-e-man
  • Score: -205

7:54am Wed 16 Jul 14

Kevin Turvey says...

Mr Hammill well done and keep up the good work of checks and balances that this present regime does not understand.

They have been caught out to be using all the usual tricks in the book but failed to give substantive evidence to back up those tricks.

Now more than ever is the time to be a thorn in the side of so called authority by making them realize that they actually do work for us!

I can see who the new independent council leader in 2015 will be.
Vote Hammill.

It would be worth running, winning and not taking up the job to demonstrate that it’s a another non job for us all to pay for!
Mr Hammill well done and keep up the good work of checks and balances that this present regime does not understand. They have been caught out to be using all the usual tricks in the book but failed to give substantive evidence to back up those tricks. Now more than ever is the time to be a thorn in the side of so called authority by making them realize that they actually do work for us! I can see who the new independent council leader in 2015 will be. Vote Hammill. It would be worth running, winning and not taking up the job to demonstrate that it’s a another non job for us all to pay for! Kevin Turvey
  • Score: -229

8:30am Wed 16 Jul 14

ReginaldBiscuit says...

Ian Floyd, City of York Council's director of customer and business support said this evening: "We’re committed to being accountable for the work we do and take seriously this feedback from the ICO"

Billions of years of chance evolution lead to well-paid statements as above. Never forget, "Humans excel in doing stupid well".
Ian Floyd, City of York Council's director of customer and business support said this evening: "We’re committed to being accountable for the work we do and take seriously this feedback from the ICO" Billions of years of chance evolution lead to well-paid statements as above. Never forget, "Humans excel in doing stupid well". ReginaldBiscuit
  • Score: -242

8:40am Wed 16 Jul 14

ReginaldBiscuit says...

Justin7 wrote:
Now the Beer reviewer is getting in on the act. Is this a political campaign by the Press?
Leave Gav alone, he does a good job. He'll be a foreigner in a few months anyway. Once that happens, Gav and other Scots will be on the front of the Express or Mail anyway classed as an work-thieving immigrants. It will be more socially acceptable to put the boot of hate and the chip on shoulder in then.
[quote][p][bold]Justin7[/bold] wrote: Now the Beer reviewer is getting in on the act. Is this a political campaign by the Press?[/p][/quote]Leave Gav alone, he does a good job. He'll be a foreigner in a few months anyway. Once that happens, Gav and other Scots will be on the front of the Express or Mail anyway classed as an work-thieving immigrants. It will be more socially acceptable to put the boot of hate and the chip on shoulder in then. ReginaldBiscuit
  • Score: -215

8:45am Wed 16 Jul 14

pedalling paul says...

Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act. pedalling paul
  • Score: 70

8:56am Wed 16 Jul 14

NoNewsIsGoodNews says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
You sir are the biggest "professional stirrer" out there.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]You sir are the biggest "professional stirrer" out there. NoNewsIsGoodNews
  • Score: -400

9:15am Wed 16 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

NoNewsIsGoodNews wrote:
pedalling paul wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
You sir are the biggest "professional stirrer" out there.
Quite right!

'Pedalling' pedals the same arrogant, disrespectful insults towards dissenters that his council buddies deal in.

It's allowing council officers to get away with their secretive, unaccountable actions, that has got York into the mess we are dealing with. Mr Hammill is a hero in his campaign to expose the wrongdoing by these highly-paid public servants, who only serve themselves and theirpolitical ideological beliefs. It's time they were held to account and kicked out for misconduct.
[quote][p][bold]NoNewsIsGoodNews[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]You sir are the biggest "professional stirrer" out there.[/p][/quote]Quite right! 'Pedalling' pedals the same arrogant, disrespectful insults towards dissenters that his council buddies deal in. It's allowing council officers to get away with their secretive, unaccountable actions, that has got York into the mess we are dealing with. Mr Hammill is a hero in his campaign to expose the wrongdoing by these highly-paid public servants, who only serve themselves and theirpolitical ideological beliefs. It's time they were held to account and kicked out for misconduct. Badgers Drift
  • Score: -268

9:31am Wed 16 Jul 14

mutley12321 says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
Morning Paul,

Lovely day again.

You're calling others "Professional stirrers?" I call you a troll Sir and claim my £5! I've nearly choked on my morning coffee! Top gag!

I like the FOIA, there's a great guide - i've enclosed the link, have a read, you might learn something, there's nothing specific on cycling though - which guide you through why the act was introduced and why.

http://ico.org.uk/fo
r_organisations/free
dom_of_information/g
uide/act#what-is-the
-freedom-of-informat
ion-act-1

Whilst you and your West Office paymasters prefer to hide behind a wall of secrecy and continue misleading the populace, the powers that be will continue to challenge you.

Enjoy your day.

Mutt.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]Morning Paul, Lovely day again. You're calling others "Professional stirrers?" I call you a troll Sir and claim my £5! I've nearly choked on my morning coffee! Top gag! I like the FOIA, there's a great guide - i've enclosed the link, have a read, you might learn something, there's nothing specific on cycling though - which guide you through why the act was introduced and why. http://ico.org.uk/fo r_organisations/free dom_of_information/g uide/act#what-is-the -freedom-of-informat ion-act-1 Whilst you and your West Office paymasters prefer to hide behind a wall of secrecy and continue misleading the populace, the powers that be will continue to challenge you. Enjoy your day. Mutt. mutley12321
  • Score: -211

10:23am Wed 16 Jul 14

RingoStarr says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
But this, PiddlingPoor, is what it's about. ARE they doing their 'day job' in the City that pays them?
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]But this, PiddlingPoor, is what it's about. ARE they doing their 'day job' in the City that pays them? RingoStarr
  • Score: -57

10:34am Wed 16 Jul 14

the original Homer says...

The Council said his complaints were vexatious and he was abusive.

The ICO said they saw no evidence of him being abusive, and his requests were reasonable.

So the Council now come up with "commercially sensitive information", "inappropriate personal information" and best of all "the personal safety of a council employee."

What's all that supposed to mean? Are they saying these were the real reasons, but they didn't tell us those as they thought "vexatious and abusive" sounded good enough? Or could it be that they're squirming now and just making it up as they go?

Do we really believe that they didn't want to give Mr Hammill the information because they thought it might lead to some sort of physical attack on an employee?

Are there any minutes to show that these were the reasons?
The Council said his complaints were vexatious and he was abusive. The ICO said they saw no evidence of him being abusive, and his requests were reasonable. So the Council now come up with "commercially sensitive information", "inappropriate personal information" and best of all "the personal safety of a council employee." What's all that supposed to mean? Are they saying these were the real reasons, but they didn't tell us those as they thought "vexatious and abusive" sounded good enough? Or could it be that they're squirming now and just making it up as they go? Do we really believe that they didn't want to give Mr Hammill the information because they thought it might lead to some sort of physical attack on an employee? Are there any minutes to show that these were the reasons? the original Homer
  • Score: -334

11:26am Wed 16 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

the original Homer wrote:
The Council said his complaints were vexatious and he was abusive. The ICO said they saw no evidence of him being abusive, and his requests were reasonable. So the Council now come up with "commercially sensitive information", "inappropriate personal information" and best of all "the personal safety of a council employee." What's all that supposed to mean? Are they saying these were the real reasons, but they didn't tell us those as they thought "vexatious and abusive" sounded good enough? Or could it be that they're squirming now and just making it up as they go? Do we really believe that they didn't want to give Mr Hammill the information because they thought it might lead to some sort of physical attack on an employee? Are there any minutes to show that these were the reasons?
The truth is, the council use these ostensible excuses hoping that they will get away with hiding information which exposes wrongdoing. It's calledbeing fobbed off.

As has been found by the ICO, the excuses were groundless, and the council were wrong on every level. They tried to label Mr Hammill vexatious and abusive, just like they have done with Gwen Swinburn for asking valid questions and making valid criiticism of the council's wrongdoing.

They have proved that they cannot be trusted, are dishonest, and are hiding facts that will no doubt prove further wrongdoing.

It's time that councillors looked at all these incidents, and took action against the senior officers behind the wrongdoing. Heads need to roll - it's the only way to cure the problem and restore citizen's faith in the council. Kersten England ultimately needs to take responsibility for this culture, and she should resign.
[quote][p][bold]the original Homer[/bold] wrote: The Council said his complaints were vexatious and he was abusive. The ICO said they saw no evidence of him being abusive, and his requests were reasonable. So the Council now come up with "commercially sensitive information", "inappropriate personal information" and best of all "the personal safety of a council employee." What's all that supposed to mean? Are they saying these were the real reasons, but they didn't tell us those as they thought "vexatious and abusive" sounded good enough? Or could it be that they're squirming now and just making it up as they go? Do we really believe that they didn't want to give Mr Hammill the information because they thought it might lead to some sort of physical attack on an employee? Are there any minutes to show that these were the reasons?[/p][/quote]The truth is, the council use these ostensible excuses hoping that they will get away with hiding information which exposes wrongdoing. It's calledbeing fobbed off. As has been found by the ICO, the excuses were groundless, and the council were wrong on every level. They tried to label Mr Hammill vexatious and abusive, just like they have done with Gwen Swinburn for asking valid questions and making valid criiticism of the council's wrongdoing. They have proved that they cannot be trusted, are dishonest, and are hiding facts that will no doubt prove further wrongdoing. It's time that councillors looked at all these incidents, and took action against the senior officers behind the wrongdoing. Heads need to roll - it's the only way to cure the problem and restore citizen's faith in the council. Kersten England ultimately needs to take responsibility for this culture, and she should resign. Badgers Drift
  • Score: -223

11:36am Wed 16 Jul 14

Osbaldwick Lad says...

Out of interest based on previous comments I had a look at the Nesta website where there is a profile of it's trustees. I am surprised that our Chief Executive has any time left for her Council duties. I note that cycling is shown in her interests which could lead to the support she gets from PP.
Out of interest based on previous comments I had a look at the Nesta website where there is a profile of it's trustees. I am surprised that our Chief Executive has any time left for her Council duties. I note that cycling is shown in her interests which could lead to the support she gets from PP. Osbaldwick Lad
  • Score: -138

11:53am Wed 16 Jul 14

asd says...

Is it possible for Labour national party to investigate York labour party and remove them? This lot who secretly ballot to remove people who act on the constituents behalf and replace with University political degree students and tow the line to J.A. and his own ideologies rather than use the morals Labour was founded on, and so act on the best interests of the people.
Is it possible for Labour national party to investigate York labour party and remove them? This lot who secretly ballot to remove people who act on the constituents behalf and replace with University political degree students and tow the line to J.A. and his own ideologies rather than use the morals Labour was founded on, and so act on the best interests of the people. asd
  • Score: -98

11:55am Wed 16 Jul 14

mgoodman says...

Firstly, a joint apology from KE and JA to Mark Hammill for falsely branding him 'abusive'.

Secondly, action needs to be taken against the individuals responsible.

Thirdly, a complete overhaul of CoYC's FOI culture and systems.

This sort of behaviour would get you dismissed in the private sector, its unacceptable that we have to tolerate it in the public sector.

I fear what we will actually get is no apology, no action against the individuals responsible and the bear minimum improvement in CoYC's response to FOI requests.
Firstly, a joint apology from KE and JA to Mark Hammill for falsely branding him 'abusive'. Secondly, action needs to be taken against the individuals responsible. Thirdly, a complete overhaul of CoYC's FOI culture and systems. This sort of behaviour would get you dismissed in the private sector, its unacceptable that we have to tolerate it in the public sector. I fear what we will actually get is no apology, no action against the individuals responsible and the bear minimum improvement in CoYC's response to FOI requests. mgoodman
  • Score: -109

11:59am Wed 16 Jul 14

piaggio1 says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
Oh get back to YOUR car users paradise.
Or gridlock or somert else .or whatever !!!!!
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]Oh get back to YOUR car users paradise. Or gridlock or somert else .or whatever !!!!! piaggio1
  • Score: -96

12:03pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

Osbaldwick Lad wrote:
Out of interest based on previous comments I had a look at the Nesta website where there is a profile of it's trustees. I am surprised that our Chief Executive has any time left for her Council duties. I note that cycling is shown in her interests which could lead to the support she gets from PP.
With Kersten England's involvement with Nesta as a trustee, their regular events she attends around the country (in council time), and their involvement with several initiatives with the council, there is a valid concern about a conflict of interest and undue influence.

It would appear that Nesta is using York for it's social innovation agenda, which has political implications. As a charity whoe raison d'etre is promotion of scieince, technology and the arts, their excessive obsession with local government appears almost beyond their ambit, and worrying. The fact that they are run by the founder of a marxist think-tank is also a concern.
[quote][p][bold]Osbaldwick Lad[/bold] wrote: Out of interest based on previous comments I had a look at the Nesta website where there is a profile of it's trustees. I am surprised that our Chief Executive has any time left for her Council duties. I note that cycling is shown in her interests which could lead to the support she gets from PP.[/p][/quote]With Kersten England's involvement with Nesta as a trustee, their regular events she attends around the country (in council time), and their involvement with several initiatives with the council, there is a valid concern about a conflict of interest and undue influence. It would appear that Nesta is using York for it's social innovation agenda, which has political implications. As a charity whoe raison d'etre is promotion of scieince, technology and the arts, their excessive obsession with local government appears almost beyond their ambit, and worrying. The fact that they are run by the founder of a marxist think-tank is also a concern. Badgers Drift
  • Score: -31

12:07pm Wed 16 Jul 14

the original Homer says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
Council Officers should have the time to do their day job AND respond to FOI requests.

Of course, if they have more than one day job it can be more difficult.

It can be even more difficult if they routinely hide facts, as that just leads to more and more FOI requests.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]Council Officers should have the time to do their day job AND respond to FOI requests. Of course, if they have more than one day job it can be more difficult. It can be even more difficult if they routinely hide facts, as that just leads to more and more FOI requests. the original Homer
  • Score: -52

12:08pm Wed 16 Jul 14

AGuyFromStrensall says...

piaggio1 wrote:
pedalling paul wrote:
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
Oh get back to YOUR car users paradise.
Or gridlock or somert else .or whatever !!!!!
I think the term you are looking for is 'Lycra paradise'
[quote][p][bold]piaggio1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]Oh get back to YOUR car users paradise. Or gridlock or somert else .or whatever !!!!![/p][/quote]I think the term you are looking for is 'Lycra paradise' AGuyFromStrensall
  • Score: -92

12:45pm Wed 16 Jul 14

meme says...

Well done Mr H
we are al scared of tackling the City on these matters as we are always afraid it will be held against us one way or another.
I have had personal experience of the way York CC deal with requests and never have I been satisfied with any answer I have had which has always sought to avoid the real truth.
Its symptomatic of the malaise and contempt by CoYC in the way that these requests are dealt with. we are in their eyes a nuisance and one to be swept under the carpet if at all possible rather than the people they represent who hold real and valid views and want to be involved
Its the same with consultations. People who don't agree with the Councils views are ignored or ridiculed and delegates are always invited who will ensure the council get their own way.
Its very sad that trust in our politicians is negligible but its of their own making.
its time we had a new broom sweep out the older and more fixed in their ways officers and councillors and we started again with an open and democratic council who listened to their voters and acted in the best interests of all rather than a few but I fear this will NOT happen.
Well done Mr H we are al scared of tackling the City on these matters as we are always afraid it will be held against us one way or another. I have had personal experience of the way York CC deal with requests and never have I been satisfied with any answer I have had which has always sought to avoid the real truth. Its symptomatic of the malaise and contempt by CoYC in the way that these requests are dealt with. we are in their eyes a nuisance and one to be swept under the carpet if at all possible rather than the people they represent who hold real and valid views and want to be involved Its the same with consultations. People who don't agree with the Councils views are ignored or ridiculed and delegates are always invited who will ensure the council get their own way. Its very sad that trust in our politicians is negligible but its of their own making. its time we had a new broom sweep out the older and more fixed in their ways officers and councillors and we started again with an open and democratic council who listened to their voters and acted in the best interests of all rather than a few but I fear this will NOT happen. meme
  • Score: -108

12:53pm Wed 16 Jul 14

A.P.Feeders says...

oi oi savaloy wrote:
the-e-man wrote:
The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots.
We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it.
The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.
20,297 people voted liebor in the 2011 local elections, 43,897 didn't vote liebor in that same election! Less than 1/3 of the good people of York made an idiotic decision that night. JA is in his position by 2211 votes TS-L is in his position by 1528 votes, the writing is on the wall for TS-L the people of Acomb will vote him out due to Beckfield Lane tip.. JA will go simply because he is currently the most hated man in York!
Correct about the beckfield lane tip.TS-L was behind this and the sooner we can vote him out the better
[quote][p][bold]oi oi savaloy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the-e-man[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots. We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it. The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.[/p][/quote]20,297 people voted liebor in the 2011 local elections, 43,897 didn't vote liebor in that same election! Less than 1/3 of the good people of York made an idiotic decision that night. JA is in his position by 2211 votes TS-L is in his position by 1528 votes, the writing is on the wall for TS-L the people of Acomb will vote him out due to Beckfield Lane tip.. JA will go simply because he is currently the most hated man in York![/p][/quote]Correct about the beckfield lane tip.TS-L was behind this and the sooner we can vote him out the better A.P.Feeders
  • Score: -51

1:25pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.
Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 46

1:57pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.
Ignore the headline - it's the content that counts!

The fact is the Council were found guilty by the ICO, and ordered to answer Mr Hammill's questions.

The council treat York citizens as gullible, but, they are not, and will not be fobbed off.

'Gullible' definition: easily deceived or cheated.

The story gives the facts, so no one is being deceived or cheated by the Press, which cannot however be said of the council inthis matter!
[quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.[/p][/quote]Ignore the headline - it's the content that counts! The fact is the Council were found guilty by the ICO, and ordered to answer Mr Hammill's questions. The council treat York citizens as gullible, but, they are not, and will not be fobbed off. 'Gullible' definition: easily deceived or cheated. The story gives the facts, so no one is being deceived or cheated by the Press, which cannot however be said of the council inthis matter! Badgers Drift
  • Score: -71

3:22pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Ousetunes says...

Clearly it's time Alexander and co put away the toys, left the room as they found it and let the adults have it back.
A bottle of milk and a bed time story. That's more the level of this shameful 'council'.
Clearly it's time Alexander and co put away the toys, left the room as they found it and let the adults have it back. A bottle of milk and a bed time story. That's more the level of this shameful 'council'. Ousetunes
  • Score: -73

7:38pm Wed 16 Jul 14

nottoooldtocare says...

Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.
I suspect the key problem with many of the key players at COYC, is that they appear to be morally bankrupt.

As for being gullible Buzzz, it may be you who is partially sighted on such matters. If you feel the behaviour demonstrated by supposedly "leaders" or directors reported on many occasions is acceptable then it says as much about you as it does them.
[quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.[/p][/quote]I suspect the key problem with many of the key players at COYC, is that they appear to be morally bankrupt. As for being gullible Buzzz, it may be you who is partially sighted on such matters. If you feel the behaviour demonstrated by supposedly "leaders" or directors reported on many occasions is acceptable then it says as much about you as it does them. nottoooldtocare
  • Score: -153

10:11pm Wed 16 Jul 14

councilwatch says...

Well done Mr Hammill.
Role on the next Council elections so that we can get rid of this lot and get democracy back into local politics.
Well done Mr Hammill. Role on the next Council elections so that we can get rid of this lot and get democracy back into local politics. councilwatch
  • Score: -147

10:22pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Martin true Viking says...

I am dismayed at the CYC and there total disregard for the tax paying public but they are only following suit from their peers in Westminster. The whole political system of this country is failing, politics has become a career not a calling the whole system needs to be changed. This change starts small and grows why don't the people who comment on the joke of a council get together and form an independent party and take them on. Even pp welcome as I agree that if a bridge is shut Ouse Bridge is the one, direct the tourists, not the hen and stag parties, right out of the station and into the town through the historic Micklegate Bar and pedestrianize all the lot from the bar to cliffords tower. Develop the area at the back of Coppergate Arcade and the River Foss, as they have in Reading and stop building grotesque warehouses on the outskirts. Re open railway lines into the city. I m sure pp would agree that building a park and ride at Poppleton 250 yards from a railway station and then using buses a real danger to cyclists on Yorks small streets is not an idea born from genius. Who is up for it....
I am dismayed at the CYC and there total disregard for the tax paying public but they are only following suit from their peers in Westminster. The whole political system of this country is failing, politics has become a career not a calling the whole system needs to be changed. This change starts small and grows why don't the people who comment on the joke of a council get together and form an independent party and take them on. Even pp welcome as I agree that if a bridge is shut Ouse Bridge is the one, direct the tourists, not the hen and stag parties, right out of the station and into the town through the historic Micklegate Bar and pedestrianize all the lot from the bar to cliffords tower. Develop the area at the back of Coppergate Arcade and the River Foss, as they have in Reading and stop building grotesque warehouses on the outskirts. Re open railway lines into the city. I m sure pp would agree that building a park and ride at Poppleton 250 yards from a railway station and then using buses a real danger to cyclists on Yorks small streets is not an idea born from genius. Who is up for it.... Martin true Viking
  • Score: -143

10:36pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Jack Ham says...

Labour in York are in disarray. Their councillors are being culled by a takeover plot within the local party with even the most prominent terrified of their selection process.

They are also terrified about losing control and so is Kersten England.

When this happens all of the hidden decisions, secret meetings and political machinations of senior officers will be exposed. There will be shock, scandal and resignations.

It will be painful and it will be shameful but it will mark the beginning of a new way of doing things. In five years time the likes of Alexander, England, Cross, Williams and Levene will be long forgotten. They will have moved on somewhere else, peddling their politics of fear and division to a different electorate.

Whatever the makeup of the new council they need to start work having learned from the mistakes of this odious cabal. Openness, honesty, integrity, realism and truth. Not clever, not fancy, just basic, human principles.
Labour in York are in disarray. Their councillors are being culled by a takeover plot within the local party with even the most prominent terrified of their selection process. They are also terrified about losing control and so is Kersten England. When this happens all of the hidden decisions, secret meetings and political machinations of senior officers will be exposed. There will be shock, scandal and resignations. It will be painful and it will be shameful but it will mark the beginning of a new way of doing things. In five years time the likes of Alexander, England, Cross, Williams and Levene will be long forgotten. They will have moved on somewhere else, peddling their politics of fear and division to a different electorate. Whatever the makeup of the new council they need to start work having learned from the mistakes of this odious cabal. Openness, honesty, integrity, realism and truth. Not clever, not fancy, just basic, human principles. Jack Ham
  • Score: -102

12:09am Thu 17 Jul 14

jay, york says...

Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.
Sorry buzz - but yet again you are so out of touch with reality -
cyc are obviously not fit for purpose - and it wont be long now before the full extent of what they really have been doing appears in the public domain. so you and the rest of the muppets will be out.
[quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.[/p][/quote]Sorry buzz - but yet again you are so out of touch with reality - cyc are obviously not fit for purpose - and it wont be long now before the full extent of what they really have been doing appears in the public domain. so you and the rest of the muppets will be out. jay, york
  • Score: -150

12:54am Thu 17 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

Jack Ham wrote:
Labour in York are in disarray. Their councillors are being culled by a takeover plot within the local party with even the most prominent terrified of their selection process. They are also terrified about losing control and so is Kersten England. When this happens all of the hidden decisions, secret meetings and political machinations of senior officers will be exposed. There will be shock, scandal and resignations. It will be painful and it will be shameful but it will mark the beginning of a new way of doing things. In five years time the likes of Alexander, England, Cross, Williams and Levene will be long forgotten. They will have moved on somewhere else, peddling their politics of fear and division to a different electorate. Whatever the makeup of the new council they need to start work having learned from the mistakes of this odious cabal. Openness, honesty, integrity, realism and truth. Not clever, not fancy, just basic, human principles.
The people of York can't wait for this to happen.

I urge all who know what they have been up to, to blow the whistle.....

Their time in York is up!
[quote][p][bold]Jack Ham[/bold] wrote: Labour in York are in disarray. Their councillors are being culled by a takeover plot within the local party with even the most prominent terrified of their selection process. They are also terrified about losing control and so is Kersten England. When this happens all of the hidden decisions, secret meetings and political machinations of senior officers will be exposed. There will be shock, scandal and resignations. It will be painful and it will be shameful but it will mark the beginning of a new way of doing things. In five years time the likes of Alexander, England, Cross, Williams and Levene will be long forgotten. They will have moved on somewhere else, peddling their politics of fear and division to a different electorate. Whatever the makeup of the new council they need to start work having learned from the mistakes of this odious cabal. Openness, honesty, integrity, realism and truth. Not clever, not fancy, just basic, human principles.[/p][/quote]The people of York can't wait for this to happen. I urge all who know what they have been up to, to blow the whistle..... Their time in York is up! Badgers Drift
  • Score: -127

3:56am Thu 17 Jul 14

holyroller says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
Frankly, I wish that Council Officers would get on with their day jobs in an open and transparent manner, and respond to FOI requests timeously, in accordance with the law.

Even 'professional stirrers' have a right to open government. Let's all remind ourselves who works for who.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]Frankly, I wish that Council Officers would get on with their day jobs in an open and transparent manner, and respond to FOI requests timeously, in accordance with the law. Even 'professional stirrers' have a right to open government. Let's all remind ourselves who works for who. holyroller
  • Score: -135

7:10am Thu 17 Jul 14

York1234 says...

I wish someone would put in an foi about the 4 officers who will be going to California to check out KE idea of closing parts of York down on Sundays. Trip not booked yet but in planning stage.

Not a good use of our money
I wish someone would put in an foi about the 4 officers who will be going to California to check out KE idea of closing parts of York down on Sundays. Trip not booked yet but in planning stage. Not a good use of our money York1234
  • Score: -132

7:22am Thu 17 Jul 14

York1234 says...

gmsgop wrote:
Well done mr Hammill- really must have taken some time and courage to do this.

The ICo really banged the council to rights on this one in VERY clear terms- but let's be in no doubt - the council repeatedly vilified you and impugned you with no evidence- as confirmed by the ICO. A careful reading brings up multiple insults to you which should be addressed in another place. The Auditors and Councillors should review these FOIs and discipline the staff who wrote them- the content, attitude and lack of respect was appalling- the ICO is clear- the council was wrong on every level. The 17 page judgement on the fragile attempt to avoid answering your valid questions shows the council for what it is- you were not vexatious just tenacious-i for one am delighted you stuck to your guns- citizens should be able to ask the most basic of questions, like lets be knowing where, when and why our most expensive officers are out of the city - why shouldn't we know this- especially when so much is going wrong -

Bravo Sir! I'll buy you a drink for your pain and suffering

Gwen Swinburn
GS foi any emails with your name in. You will be shocked.
[quote][p][bold]gmsgop[/bold] wrote: Well done mr Hammill- really must have taken some time and courage to do this. The ICo really banged the council to rights on this one in VERY clear terms- but let's be in no doubt - the council repeatedly vilified you and impugned you with no evidence- as confirmed by the ICO. A careful reading brings up multiple insults to you which should be addressed in another place. The Auditors and Councillors should review these FOIs and discipline the staff who wrote them- the content, attitude and lack of respect was appalling- the ICO is clear- the council was wrong on every level. The 17 page judgement on the fragile attempt to avoid answering your valid questions shows the council for what it is- you were not vexatious just tenacious-i for one am delighted you stuck to your guns- citizens should be able to ask the most basic of questions, like lets be knowing where, when and why our most expensive officers are out of the city - why shouldn't we know this- especially when so much is going wrong - Bravo Sir! I'll buy you a drink for your pain and suffering Gwen Swinburn[/p][/quote]GS foi any emails with your name in. You will be shocked. York1234
  • Score: -52

7:33am Thu 17 Jul 14

Jack Ham says...

York1234 wrote:
gmsgop wrote:
Well done mr Hammill- really must have taken some time and courage to do this.

The ICo really banged the council to rights on this one in VERY clear terms- but let's be in no doubt - the council repeatedly vilified you and impugned you with no evidence- as confirmed by the ICO. A careful reading brings up multiple insults to you which should be addressed in another place. The Auditors and Councillors should review these FOIs and discipline the staff who wrote them- the content, attitude and lack of respect was appalling- the ICO is clear- the council was wrong on every level. The 17 page judgement on the fragile attempt to avoid answering your valid questions shows the council for what it is- you were not vexatious just tenacious-i for one am delighted you stuck to your guns- citizens should be able to ask the most basic of questions, like lets be knowing where, when and why our most expensive officers are out of the city - why shouldn't we know this- especially when so much is going wrong -

Bravo Sir! I'll buy you a drink for your pain and suffering

Gwen Swinburn
GS foi any emails with your name in. You will be shocked.
CYC will not allow this, even if the FOI comes from Gwen herself. They will claim it contains personal information. I agree about how shocking the level of communication about an active citizen would be.

Perhaps using a personal request under Data Protection Act as well as FOI. GS always free to share that in public later.

Just the thought of this will have a number of councillors and senior staff VERY nervous.
[quote][p][bold]York1234[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gmsgop[/bold] wrote: Well done mr Hammill- really must have taken some time and courage to do this. The ICo really banged the council to rights on this one in VERY clear terms- but let's be in no doubt - the council repeatedly vilified you and impugned you with no evidence- as confirmed by the ICO. A careful reading brings up multiple insults to you which should be addressed in another place. The Auditors and Councillors should review these FOIs and discipline the staff who wrote them- the content, attitude and lack of respect was appalling- the ICO is clear- the council was wrong on every level. The 17 page judgement on the fragile attempt to avoid answering your valid questions shows the council for what it is- you were not vexatious just tenacious-i for one am delighted you stuck to your guns- citizens should be able to ask the most basic of questions, like lets be knowing where, when and why our most expensive officers are out of the city - why shouldn't we know this- especially when so much is going wrong - Bravo Sir! I'll buy you a drink for your pain and suffering Gwen Swinburn[/p][/quote]GS foi any emails with your name in. You will be shocked.[/p][/quote]CYC will not allow this, even if the FOI comes from Gwen herself. They will claim it contains personal information. I agree about how shocking the level of communication about an active citizen would be. Perhaps using a personal request under Data Protection Act as well as FOI. GS always free to share that in public later. Just the thought of this will have a number of councillors and senior staff VERY nervous. Jack Ham
  • Score: -91

7:40am Thu 17 Jul 14

the-e-man says...

holyroller wrote:
pedalling paul wrote:
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
Frankly, I wish that Council Officers would get on with their day jobs in an open and transparent manner, and respond to FOI requests timeously, in accordance with the law.

Even 'professional stirrers' have a right to open government. Let's all remind ourselves who works for who.
I have no time for this present Council of Clowns and firmly believe in open and transparent Government.
However, the cost of dealing with applications under the FIO Act must be enormous. I have no personal knowledge but imagine that Council department dealing with these applications must be under enormous pressure as the number of applications increase month by month.
It would be interesting to hear from the Council as to how many applications they receive and the annual cost of dealing with them. Of course it should be remembered that the cost of all this is borne by the ratepayer and all at a time when essential services, sometimes to the very needy, are being cut.
I can well imagine that lots of these application ( particularly from the news media) are nothing short of fishing expeditions but all have to be assessed and dealt with.
Of course here we are only discussing York City Council but of course this is a national issue invloving not only local Government but Central Government too. The total annual cost must be enormous.
I reiterate that I am all for open and trasparent Government and agree in principle to the FIO legislation but do think a rethink is needed.
[quote][p][bold]holyroller[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]Frankly, I wish that Council Officers would get on with their day jobs in an open and transparent manner, and respond to FOI requests timeously, in accordance with the law. Even 'professional stirrers' have a right to open government. Let's all remind ourselves who works for who.[/p][/quote]I have no time for this present Council of Clowns and firmly believe in open and transparent Government. However, the cost of dealing with applications under the FIO Act must be enormous. I have no personal knowledge but imagine that Council department dealing with these applications must be under enormous pressure as the number of applications increase month by month. It would be interesting to hear from the Council as to how many applications they receive and the annual cost of dealing with them. Of course it should be remembered that the cost of all this is borne by the ratepayer and all at a time when essential services, sometimes to the very needy, are being cut. I can well imagine that lots of these application ( particularly from the news media) are nothing short of fishing expeditions but all have to be assessed and dealt with. Of course here we are only discussing York City Council but of course this is a national issue invloving not only local Government but Central Government too. The total annual cost must be enormous. I reiterate that I am all for open and trasparent Government and agree in principle to the FIO legislation but do think a rethink is needed. the-e-man
  • Score: -57

8:18am Thu 17 Jul 14

Harry Ballacks says...

CYC will not allow this, even if the FOI comes from Gwen herself. They will claim it contains personal information. I agree about how shocking the level of communication about an active citizen would be.

Perhaps using a personal request under Data Protection Act as well as FOI. GS always free to share that in public later.

Just the thought of this will have a number of councillors and senior staff VERY nervous.

Has no one evr heard of the Delete button!?!?! If it's not in the system, it can't be produced. CYC aren't that daft!!
CYC will not allow this, even if the FOI comes from Gwen herself. They will claim it contains personal information. I agree about how shocking the level of communication about an active citizen would be. Perhaps using a personal request under Data Protection Act as well as FOI. GS always free to share that in public later. Just the thought of this will have a number of councillors and senior staff VERY nervous. Has no one evr heard of the Delete button!?!?! If it's not in the system, it can't be produced. CYC aren't that daft!! Harry Ballacks
  • Score: 2

9:50am Thu 17 Jul 14

m dee says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
Frankly Paul is it not professional stirring that you do when you comment on issues that effect many of us in York then later come back with I have lighted the blue touch paper? asking our elected council for a few simple answers should not be a problem unless there is something to hide.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]Frankly Paul is it not professional stirring that you do when you comment on issues that effect many of us in York then later come back with I have lighted the blue touch paper? asking our elected council for a few simple answers should not be a problem unless there is something to hide. m dee
  • Score: 4

10:01am Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

Far me it from me to challenge the perceived "wisdom" of the online petty hate-group, but this "storm" looks about as stormy as my teacup.

All that seems to have happened here is that the Council received some FoIs, deemed some vexatious (as it is able to do), this was challenged and the ICO ruled against CYC. That happens up and down the country.

If we're all honest the requests listed above are clearly ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time, and actually not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above, but he makes a very good point; foolish, time-wasting FoIs submitted only to continue minor campaigns of personal bitterness are a distraction from the work CYC has to do.

Far be it from me to defend CYC but there is so much nonsense in the original article and the following mindless moaning in the comments below it that this has enraged even gentle me.

The FoI is an excellent piece of legislation and should be used to "open up" government. Unfortunately most people can't be bothered to use it, so requests generally fall into three categories: 1) lazy journalists looking to make a story out of meaningless, out of context numbers, 2) companies wanting to see other companies' bids when t hey've lost some tenders and 3) petty online hate groups or "disgruntled of York" angry lunatics who think the Council owes them a job, house, work, money or whatever little thing they are upset about today. Asking how much time the Chief Executive spends in York falls into the third category, and has nothing to do with good government, decision making, policy implementation or Council performance. Whilst I like the idea of the ICO in this case it is wrong.

Bethany.
Far me it from me to challenge the perceived "wisdom" of the online petty hate-group, but this "storm" looks about as stormy as my teacup. All that seems to have happened here is that the Council received some FoIs, deemed some vexatious (as it is able to do), this was challenged and the ICO ruled against CYC. That happens up and down the country. If we're all honest the requests listed above are clearly ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time, and actually not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above, but he makes a very good point; foolish, time-wasting FoIs submitted only to continue minor campaigns of personal bitterness are a distraction from the work CYC has to do. Far be it from me to defend CYC but there is so much nonsense in the original article and the following mindless moaning in the comments below it that this has enraged even gentle me. The FoI is an excellent piece of legislation and should be used to "open up" government. Unfortunately most people can't be bothered to use it, so requests generally fall into three categories: 1) lazy journalists looking to make a story out of meaningless, out of context numbers, 2) companies wanting to see other companies' bids when t hey've lost some tenders and 3) petty online hate groups or "disgruntled of York" angry lunatics who think the Council owes them a job, house, work, money or whatever little thing they are upset about today. Asking how much time the Chief Executive spends in York falls into the third category, and has nothing to do with good government, decision making, policy implementation or Council performance. Whilst I like the idea of the ICO in this case it is wrong. Bethany. BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: -3

10:39am Thu 17 Jul 14

TheTruthHurts says...

I dont really buy that Bethany

not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above


Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles!
I dont really buy that Bethany [quote] not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above [/quote] Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles! TheTruthHurts
  • Score: 4

10:50am Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

TheTruthHurts wrote:
I dont really buy that Bethany

not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above


Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles!
My point was about the hatred and trolling he gets. If he has two accounts then he's as bad as anyone else who also do that, regardless, he does very well not to descend into personal insults!

Bethany
[quote][p][bold]TheTruthHurts[/bold] wrote: I dont really buy that Bethany [quote] not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above [/quote] Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles![/p][/quote]My point was about the hatred and trolling he gets. If he has two accounts then he's as bad as anyone else who also do that, regardless, he does very well not to descend into personal insults! Bethany BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: -2

11:15am Thu 17 Jul 14

TheTruthHurts says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
TheTruthHurts wrote:
I dont really buy that Bethany

not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above


Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles!
My point was about the hatred and trolling he gets. If he has two accounts then he's as bad as anyone else who also do that, regardless, he does very well not to descend into personal insults!

Bethany
What about when he trolls on a story that is nothing to do with cycling or has no reference to cycling. Yet he still makes the same old points.

Really although I agree with you about some of the commentators on here PP/PH is one of the sites biggest trolls.

And he does descend into personal insults often. Many people are often chastised by him for incorrect spelling and grammar (often whilst ignoring valid points) ..... on a site like this is that not personal?
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheTruthHurts[/bold] wrote: I dont really buy that Bethany [quote] not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above [/quote] Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles![/p][/quote]My point was about the hatred and trolling he gets. If he has two accounts then he's as bad as anyone else who also do that, regardless, he does very well not to descend into personal insults! Bethany[/p][/quote]What about when he trolls on a story that is nothing to do with cycling or has no reference to cycling. Yet he still makes the same old points. Really although I agree with you about some of the commentators on here PP/PH is one of the sites biggest trolls. And he does descend into personal insults often. Many people are often chastised by him for incorrect spelling and grammar (often whilst ignoring valid points) ..... on a site like this is that not personal? TheTruthHurts
  • Score: 3

11:19am Thu 17 Jul 14

holyroller says...

the-e-man wrote:
holyroller wrote:
pedalling paul wrote:
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
Frankly, I wish that Council Officers would get on with their day jobs in an open and transparent manner, and respond to FOI requests timeously, in accordance with the law.

Even 'professional stirrers' have a right to open government. Let's all remind ourselves who works for who.
I have no time for this present Council of Clowns and firmly believe in open and transparent Government.
However, the cost of dealing with applications under the FIO Act must be enormous. I have no personal knowledge but imagine that Council department dealing with these applications must be under enormous pressure as the number of applications increase month by month.
It would be interesting to hear from the Council as to how many applications they receive and the annual cost of dealing with them. Of course it should be remembered that the cost of all this is borne by the ratepayer and all at a time when essential services, sometimes to the very needy, are being cut.
I can well imagine that lots of these application ( particularly from the news media) are nothing short of fishing expeditions but all have to be assessed and dealt with.
Of course here we are only discussing York City Council but of course this is a national issue invloving not only local Government but Central Government too. The total annual cost must be enormous.
I reiterate that I am all for open and trasparent Government and agree in principle to the FIO legislation but do think a rethink is needed.
Little to disagree with here.

As I understand it, there is a right to existing information only, so requesting specific formats and collation should not really be entertained. I can't really think of a good reason why KE's or pretty much anyone else at the council's work diary couldn't be a Google Doc that anyone could view (or for that matter, pretty much anyone who is billing the local authority with the exception of the police).
Some requests are clearly commercial in nature which I doubt the act envisaged.

Ultimately, with the law as it stands, the least costly method of administering FOI if unwilling to simply open up all documents for online searching, is to deal with them quickly and in accordance with the law.

When Whitehall needs to see what we're doing 'if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear' and there's a bottomless pit of money for that.
[quote][p][bold]the-e-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]holyroller[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]Frankly, I wish that Council Officers would get on with their day jobs in an open and transparent manner, and respond to FOI requests timeously, in accordance with the law. Even 'professional stirrers' have a right to open government. Let's all remind ourselves who works for who.[/p][/quote]I have no time for this present Council of Clowns and firmly believe in open and transparent Government. However, the cost of dealing with applications under the FIO Act must be enormous. I have no personal knowledge but imagine that Council department dealing with these applications must be under enormous pressure as the number of applications increase month by month. It would be interesting to hear from the Council as to how many applications they receive and the annual cost of dealing with them. Of course it should be remembered that the cost of all this is borne by the ratepayer and all at a time when essential services, sometimes to the very needy, are being cut. I can well imagine that lots of these application ( particularly from the news media) are nothing short of fishing expeditions but all have to be assessed and dealt with. Of course here we are only discussing York City Council but of course this is a national issue invloving not only local Government but Central Government too. The total annual cost must be enormous. I reiterate that I am all for open and trasparent Government and agree in principle to the FIO legislation but do think a rethink is needed.[/p][/quote]Little to disagree with here. As I understand it, there is a right to existing information only, so requesting specific formats and collation should not really be entertained. I can't really think of a good reason why KE's or pretty much anyone else at the council's work diary couldn't be a Google Doc that anyone could view (or for that matter, pretty much anyone who is billing the local authority with the exception of the police). Some requests are clearly commercial in nature which I doubt the act envisaged. Ultimately, with the law as it stands, the least costly method of administering FOI if unwilling to simply open up all documents for online searching, is to deal with them quickly and in accordance with the law. When Whitehall needs to see what we're doing 'if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear' and there's a bottomless pit of money for that. holyroller
  • Score: 1

11:29am Thu 17 Jul 14

m dee says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
TheTruthHurts wrote:
I dont really buy that Bethany

not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above


Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles!
My point was about the hatred and trolling he gets. If he has two accounts then he's as bad as anyone else who also do that, regardless, he does very well not to descend into personal insults!

Bethany
Hi Bethany,
just a couple of points on your valued opinion,

p.p often is very borderline with is comments please check the Lendal Bridge story on refunding the illegal fines where he refers to a resident who takes her child from Bishopthorpe to Bootham school as having a car dependent lifestyle and probably drives a petrol guzzling s .u.v and should try walking or encourage the kids to get there under their own steam.
As for the FoI requests if the organisation receiving the request is best suited to decide whether pointless or not as you seem to imply would this not render the whole system pointless?
I do not think there is a online hate group the comments section is usually made up of concerned residents with a few Councillors or staff that use the section to promote their policies and pretend to be the general public and a score adjuster,thing is we would not be discussing this if the Authority saved everyone time and money and simply released the information as they do promote themselves as been open and transparent.
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheTruthHurts[/bold] wrote: I dont really buy that Bethany [quote] not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above [/quote] Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles![/p][/quote]My point was about the hatred and trolling he gets. If he has two accounts then he's as bad as anyone else who also do that, regardless, he does very well not to descend into personal insults! Bethany[/p][/quote]Hi Bethany, just a couple of points on your valued opinion, p.p often is very borderline with is comments please check the Lendal Bridge story on refunding the illegal fines where he refers to a resident who takes her child from Bishopthorpe to Bootham school as having a car dependent lifestyle and probably drives a petrol guzzling s .u.v and should try walking or encourage the kids to get there under their own steam. As for the FoI requests if the organisation receiving the request is best suited to decide whether pointless or not as you seem to imply would this not render the whole system pointless? I do not think there is a online hate group the comments section is usually made up of concerned residents with a few Councillors or staff that use the section to promote their policies and pretend to be the general public and a score adjuster,thing is we would not be discussing this if the Authority saved everyone time and money and simply released the information as they do promote themselves as been open and transparent. m dee
  • Score: 5

12:25pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Mr Udigawa says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
TheTruthHurts wrote: I dont really buy that Bethany
not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above
Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles!
My point was about the hatred and trolling he gets. If he has two accounts then he's as bad as anyone else who also do that, regardless, he does very well not to descend into personal insults! Bethany
Hi Bethany,

I hacven't posted on here for a while but I'd like to add a few points regarding PH/PP.

In my opinion Paul is a serial troll.
He accuses people of having blinkers on and of having their heads in the sand, yet in his comments regarding council transparency and accountability he does exactly that!
He frequently corrects posters on spelling and grammar, even stooping so low as to pick on someone who was offering support to a Cancer charity fundraiser a couple of years back (the pink scarf around the Bar Walls story) without even commenting on the original story.

Now I'm doing the same and going off topic but it annoys me that this man thinks he has all the answers but dooesn't appear to live in the real world.
Occasionally I feel the pain of having to agree with him on some points but it's a shame that he does a really good job of alienating people.

Suggest you run back over a couple of weeks of his comments but to save you some time here's the gist:

Stand back, blue touch paper lit!
Non-essential car use.
Single occupancy car use.
Heads in sands.
Car users paradise.
Transport blinkers.
Stave off future gridlock (this one only exists in his head)
Lycra.
Sweat.
Pedal power.
Cycle trailer.
Waterproof panniers.
Local Transport Plan (LTP)
Tour bus
A Bullock is a cow with handlebars......
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheTruthHurts[/bold] wrote: I dont really buy that Bethany [quote] not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above [/quote] Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles![/p][/quote]My point was about the hatred and trolling he gets. If he has two accounts then he's as bad as anyone else who also do that, regardless, he does very well not to descend into personal insults! Bethany[/p][/quote]Hi Bethany, I hacven't posted on here for a while but I'd like to add a few points regarding PH/PP. In my opinion Paul is a serial troll. He accuses people of having blinkers on and of having their heads in the sand, yet in his comments regarding council transparency and accountability he does exactly that! He frequently corrects posters on spelling and grammar, even stooping so low as to pick on someone who was offering support to a Cancer charity fundraiser a couple of years back (the pink scarf around the Bar Walls story) without even commenting on the original story. Now I'm doing the same and going off topic but it annoys me that this man thinks he has all the answers but dooesn't appear to live in the real world. Occasionally I feel the pain of having to agree with him on some points but it's a shame that he does a really good job of alienating people. Suggest you run back over a couple of weeks of his comments but to save you some time here's the gist: Stand back, blue touch paper lit! Non-essential car use. Single occupancy car use. Heads in sands. Car users paradise. Transport blinkers. Stave off future gridlock (this one only exists in his head) Lycra. Sweat. Pedal power. Cycle trailer. Waterproof panniers. Local Transport Plan (LTP) Tour bus A Bullock is a cow with handlebars...... Mr Udigawa
  • Score: 7

12:38pm Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

Apologies for bringing the subject up, and for not responding to the points made about PP, shall we get back "on topic"? (my fault it went off!)

Ultimately, with the law as it stands, the least costly method of administering FOI if unwilling to simply open up all documents for online searching, is to deal with them quickly and in accordance with the law.


This is the crux of the matter. More information should be public. However I guess that is a long process to do this and the UK seems to be driving through it about the right pace if not a bit slower. I imagine up and down the land there is a fear of information being made available from town halls? In terms of mindset / working culture that's going to be a very tough one to crack. Dragging people with you through culture change isn't easy. On the way there will always be these sorts of issues and disputes between rights of citizen vs rights of public body. Which is why we have an independent ICO... I just disagree with the ICO on this particular issue!

I disagree that things like someone's diary should be online or public. Maybe a summary of it. Not even the PM's is "online" and searchable, though there are summaries of who Cameron meets. People, even Council employees, are allowed some privacy in terms of their meetings and workload. We have got to get the balance right between publishing information, and trusting people to do their jobs to their own professional standards and to their own ability. Arguing that someone (for example) doesn't give enough time to a particular activity based on their diary isn't going to lead to better government or better performance. I think to get round this situation we need to focus on outputs and delivery rather than inputs and work load. For example, look at how Kersten England has reduced poverty in York over the course of a year rather than a weekly look at how much time she gives the issue. That seems to be a better approach to information governance and the generalised term "holding to account".
Apologies for bringing the subject up, and for not responding to the points made about PP, shall we get back "on topic"? (my fault it went off!) [quote]Ultimately, with the law as it stands, the least costly method of administering FOI if unwilling to simply open up all documents for online searching, is to deal with them quickly and in accordance with the law.[/quote] This is the crux of the matter. More information should be public. However I guess that is a long process to do this and the UK seems to be driving through it about the right pace if not a bit slower. I imagine up and down the land there is a fear of information being made available from town halls? In terms of mindset / working culture that's going to be a very tough one to crack. Dragging people with you through culture change isn't easy. On the way there will always be these sorts of issues and disputes between rights of citizen vs rights of public body. Which is why we have an independent ICO... I just disagree with the ICO on this particular issue! I disagree that things like someone's diary should be online or public. Maybe a summary of it. Not even the PM's is "online" and searchable, though there are summaries of who Cameron meets. People, even Council employees, are allowed some privacy in terms of their meetings and workload. We have got to get the balance right between publishing information, and trusting people to do their jobs to their own professional standards and to their own ability. Arguing that someone (for example) doesn't give enough time to a particular activity based on their diary isn't going to lead to better government or better performance. I think to get round this situation we need to focus on outputs and delivery rather than inputs and work load. For example, look at how Kersten England has reduced poverty in York over the course of a year rather than a weekly look at how much time she gives the issue. That seems to be a better approach to information governance and the generalised term "holding to account". BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: -8

1:38pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

nottoooldtocare wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.
I suspect the key problem with many of the key players at COYC, is that they appear to be morally bankrupt.

As for being gullible Buzzz, it may be you who is partially sighted on such matters. If you feel the behaviour demonstrated by supposedly "leaders" or directors reported on many occasions is acceptable then it says as much about you as it does them.
Ok, I was pushed for time and picked the wrong word. I meant "easily-led"

By which I mean easily led by the Press to kneejerk all manner of hyperbole and cornball hysteria all over the comments.
The page bears me out. Comments at 80 right now.

As is obvious to anyone who can read I wasn't commenting on the council, just commenting on the tabloid nature of the once respectable York Press.

I shall pick my words more carefully in future, thanks for pointing it out to me :)
[quote][p][bold]nottoooldtocare[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.[/p][/quote]I suspect the key problem with many of the key players at COYC, is that they appear to be morally bankrupt. As for being gullible Buzzz, it may be you who is partially sighted on such matters. If you feel the behaviour demonstrated by supposedly "leaders" or directors reported on many occasions is acceptable then it says as much about you as it does them.[/p][/quote]Ok, I was pushed for time and picked the wrong word. I meant "easily-led" By which I mean easily led by the Press to kneejerk all manner of hyperbole and cornball hysteria all over the comments. The page bears me out. Comments at 80 right now. As is obvious to anyone who can read I wasn't commenting on the council, just commenting on the tabloid nature of the once respectable York Press. I shall pick my words more carefully in future, thanks for pointing it out to me :) Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 0

1:43pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

jay, york wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.
Sorry buzz - but yet again you are so out of touch with reality -
cyc are obviously not fit for purpose - and it wont be long now before the full extent of what they really have been doing appears in the public domain. so you and the rest of the muppets will be out.
Again, my bad choice of word. For gullible read "easily-led" and I am not referring to the council, I am referring to the tabloid nature of the York Press with their screaming headlines dangling carrots in front of people.
People who are obviously easily led into opprobrium and hysterics as shown by the number of comments here and by a few people's readiness to wrongly presume my politics.

When you say "you and the rest of the muppets will be out" what do you mean? What will I be out of? It's really nowt to do with me all that party politics and council nonsense.
[quote][p][bold]jay, york[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.[/p][/quote]Sorry buzz - but yet again you are so out of touch with reality - cyc are obviously not fit for purpose - and it wont be long now before the full extent of what they really have been doing appears in the public domain. so you and the rest of the muppets will be out.[/p][/quote]Again, my bad choice of word. For gullible read "easily-led" and I am not referring to the council, I am referring to the tabloid nature of the York Press with their screaming headlines dangling carrots in front of people. People who are obviously easily led into opprobrium and hysterics as shown by the number of comments here and by a few people's readiness to wrongly presume my politics. When you say "you and the rest of the muppets will be out" what do you mean? What will I be out of? It's really nowt to do with me all that party politics and council nonsense. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 1

2:39pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Mr Udigawa says...

Buzzz Light-year wrote:
jay, york wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote: Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.
Sorry buzz - but yet again you are so out of touch with reality - cyc are obviously not fit for purpose - and it wont be long now before the full extent of what they really have been doing appears in the public domain. so you and the rest of the muppets will be out.
Again, my bad choice of word. For gullible read "easily-led" and I am not referring to the council, I am referring to the tabloid nature of the York Press with their screaming headlines dangling carrots in front of people. People who are obviously easily led into opprobrium and hysterics as shown by the number of comments here and by a few people's readiness to wrongly presume my politics. When you say "you and the rest of the muppets will be out" what do you mean? What will I be out of? It's really nowt to do with me all that party politics and council nonsense.
Have you ever read The Daily Mash Buzz? You'll love it :-)
www.thedailymash.co.
uk
[quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jay, york[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.[/p][/quote]Sorry buzz - but yet again you are so out of touch with reality - cyc are obviously not fit for purpose - and it wont be long now before the full extent of what they really have been doing appears in the public domain. so you and the rest of the muppets will be out.[/p][/quote]Again, my bad choice of word. For gullible read "easily-led" and I am not referring to the council, I am referring to the tabloid nature of the York Press with their screaming headlines dangling carrots in front of people. People who are obviously easily led into opprobrium and hysterics as shown by the number of comments here and by a few people's readiness to wrongly presume my politics. When you say "you and the rest of the muppets will be out" what do you mean? What will I be out of? It's really nowt to do with me all that party politics and council nonsense.[/p][/quote]Have you ever read The Daily Mash Buzz? You'll love it :-) www.thedailymash.co. uk Mr Udigawa
  • Score: 1

4:09pm Thu 17 Jul 14

meme says...

Councillors
I ask you to have an enquiry on this matter and openness in general chaired by an Independent party to find out the truth of what is actually going on
Invites some business people/residents who have mane enquiries or who have made a fuss to prove the evidence relating to the fixing of consultations and the lack of transparency and then do something about it.
That's why you are councillors ; to protect us and do the best for York
there is no other way this constant problem will be resolved
Councillors I ask you to have an enquiry on this matter and openness in general chaired by an Independent party [not a politician in York] to find out the truth of what is actually going on Invites some business people/residents who have mane enquiries or who have made a fuss to prove the evidence relating to the fixing of consultations and the lack of transparency and then do something about it. That's why you are councillors ; to protect us and do the best for York there is no other way this constant problem will be resolved meme
  • Score: 8

5:10pm Thu 17 Jul 14

deckhanddave says...

the-e-man wrote:
The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots.
We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it.
The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.
I for one hold my hand up and hang my head in shame! Unfortunately my disgust at SG of Lib Dems and a previous councillor, made me vote in a manner I have not done in 35 years of voting. I state now that I apologise to the Lib Dems, As a party they are a joke but as local councillors they have done a good job in York (Barring SG) who couldn't organise a fireworks party properly but his cronies had a good time by all accounts. The next election I will vote either Lib Dem or Independant but NEVER Labour. York is like a Communist state under them.
[quote][p][bold]the-e-man[/bold] wrote: The people to blame for this and all the other debacles which York City Council are responsible for are the electorate who voted in this absolute shower of idiots. We can only hope that at the next election the good people of York vote for candidates of substance not baffoons who promise the earth with no idea of how to produce it. The present council really is a joke but unfortunately for the residents of York it is not funny.[/p][/quote]I for one hold my hand up and hang my head in shame! Unfortunately my disgust at SG of Lib Dems and a previous councillor, made me vote in a manner I have not done in 35 years of voting. I state now that I apologise to the Lib Dems, As a party they are a joke but as local councillors they have done a good job in York (Barring SG) who couldn't organise a fireworks party properly but his cronies had a good time by all accounts. The next election I will vote either Lib Dem or Independant but NEVER Labour. York is like a Communist state under them. deckhanddave
  • Score: 9

9:11pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

Mr Udigawa wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
jay, york wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote: Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.
Sorry buzz - but yet again you are so out of touch with reality - cyc are obviously not fit for purpose - and it wont be long now before the full extent of what they really have been doing appears in the public domain. so you and the rest of the muppets will be out.
Again, my bad choice of word. For gullible read "easily-led" and I am not referring to the council, I am referring to the tabloid nature of the York Press with their screaming headlines dangling carrots in front of people. People who are obviously easily led into opprobrium and hysterics as shown by the number of comments here and by a few people's readiness to wrongly presume my politics. When you say "you and the rest of the muppets will be out" what do you mean? What will I be out of? It's really nowt to do with me all that party politics and council nonsense.
Have you ever read The Daily Mash Buzz? You'll love it :-)
www.thedailymash.co.

uk
Haha yes!
How have I not seen that before?!
Thank you, having a most entertaining evening of laughs :-D
[quote][p][bold]Mr Udigawa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jay, york[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.[/p][/quote]Sorry buzz - but yet again you are so out of touch with reality - cyc are obviously not fit for purpose - and it wont be long now before the full extent of what they really have been doing appears in the public domain. so you and the rest of the muppets will be out.[/p][/quote]Again, my bad choice of word. For gullible read "easily-led" and I am not referring to the council, I am referring to the tabloid nature of the York Press with their screaming headlines dangling carrots in front of people. People who are obviously easily led into opprobrium and hysterics as shown by the number of comments here and by a few people's readiness to wrongly presume my politics. When you say "you and the rest of the muppets will be out" what do you mean? What will I be out of? It's really nowt to do with me all that party politics and council nonsense.[/p][/quote]Have you ever read The Daily Mash Buzz? You'll love it :-) www.thedailymash.co. uk[/p][/quote]Haha yes! How have I not seen that before?! Thank you, having a most entertaining evening of laughs :-D Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 0

9:40pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Dr Martin says...

Dogwithabone wrote:
Hello people on this press website.
Please can someone explain why my comment has a score of -21 but there are no responses to what I have said.
I find this a bit weird !!!
How does this work ??????
I hear the voting is politically motivated but I doubt that, I think it's someone or a few people showing off, unfortunately unless you stop all voting you will not be able to stop it.
I would say to them please stop making it so obvious
[quote][p][bold]Dogwithabone[/bold] wrote: Hello people on this press website. Please can someone explain why my comment has a score of -21 but there are no responses to what I have said. I find this a bit weird !!! How does this work ??????[/p][/quote]I hear the voting is politically motivated but I doubt that, I think it's someone or a few people showing off, unfortunately unless you stop all voting you will not be able to stop it. I would say to them please stop making it so obvious Dr Martin
  • Score: 1

9:11am Fri 18 Jul 14

Mr Udigawa says...

Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Mr Udigawa wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
jay, york wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote: Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.
Sorry buzz - but yet again you are so out of touch with reality - cyc are obviously not fit for purpose - and it wont be long now before the full extent of what they really have been doing appears in the public domain. so you and the rest of the muppets will be out.
Again, my bad choice of word. For gullible read "easily-led" and I am not referring to the council, I am referring to the tabloid nature of the York Press with their screaming headlines dangling carrots in front of people. People who are obviously easily led into opprobrium and hysterics as shown by the number of comments here and by a few people's readiness to wrongly presume my politics. When you say "you and the rest of the muppets will be out" what do you mean? What will I be out of? It's really nowt to do with me all that party politics and council nonsense.
Have you ever read The Daily Mash Buzz? You'll love it :-) www.thedailymash.co. uk
Haha yes! How have I not seen that before?! Thank you, having a most entertaining evening of laughs :-D
You're welcome, it keeps me entertained :-)
[quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mr Udigawa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jay, york[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Council *storm* in capital letters, screamed the tabloid headline, a cheap hook dangling in front of the gullible.[/p][/quote]Sorry buzz - but yet again you are so out of touch with reality - cyc are obviously not fit for purpose - and it wont be long now before the full extent of what they really have been doing appears in the public domain. so you and the rest of the muppets will be out.[/p][/quote]Again, my bad choice of word. For gullible read "easily-led" and I am not referring to the council, I am referring to the tabloid nature of the York Press with their screaming headlines dangling carrots in front of people. People who are obviously easily led into opprobrium and hysterics as shown by the number of comments here and by a few people's readiness to wrongly presume my politics. When you say "you and the rest of the muppets will be out" what do you mean? What will I be out of? It's really nowt to do with me all that party politics and council nonsense.[/p][/quote]Have you ever read The Daily Mash Buzz? You'll love it :-) www.thedailymash.co. uk[/p][/quote]Haha yes! How have I not seen that before?! Thank you, having a most entertaining evening of laughs :-D[/p][/quote]You're welcome, it keeps me entertained :-) Mr Udigawa
  • Score: 1

11:26am Fri 18 Jul 14

walfoh says...

I'm very suspicious of land suddenly being designated suitable for house building on the edge of Upper Poppleton. Its to be called West Poppleton and the Council now want to build 2,808 houses there. Anyone know the back story to the sudden addition of this new huge development.
I'm very suspicious of land suddenly being designated suitable for house building on the edge of Upper Poppleton. Its to be called West Poppleton and the Council now want to build 2,808 houses there. Anyone know the back story to the sudden addition of this new huge development. walfoh
  • Score: 6

1:38pm Fri 18 Jul 14

deckhanddave says...

walfoh wrote:
I'm very suspicious of land suddenly being designated suitable for house building on the edge of Upper Poppleton. Its to be called West Poppleton and the Council now want to build 2,808 houses there. Anyone know the back story to the sudden addition of this new huge development.
Coz they can? or think they can.
[quote][p][bold]walfoh[/bold] wrote: I'm very suspicious of land suddenly being designated suitable for house building on the edge of Upper Poppleton. Its to be called West Poppleton and the Council now want to build 2,808 houses there. Anyone know the back story to the sudden addition of this new huge development.[/p][/quote]Coz they can? or think they can. deckhanddave
  • Score: 4

5:33am Sat 19 Jul 14

thinkingoutsidethebox says...

York1234 wrote:
I wish someone would put in an foi about the 4 officers who will be going to California to check out KE idea of closing parts of York down on Sundays. Trip not booked yet but in planning stage.

Not a good use of our money
wow - really?
As an aside though this lot have managed to close a lot of York down any day of the week
[quote][p][bold]York1234[/bold] wrote: I wish someone would put in an foi about the 4 officers who will be going to California to check out KE idea of closing parts of York down on Sundays. Trip not booked yet but in planning stage. Not a good use of our money[/p][/quote]wow - really? As an aside though this lot have managed to close a lot of York down any day of the week thinkingoutsidethebox
  • Score: 7

7:31am Sat 19 Jul 14

deckhanddave says...

York1234 wrote:
I wish someone would put in an foi about the 4 officers who will be going to California to check out KE idea of closing parts of York down on Sundays. Trip not booked yet but in planning stage.

KE? Wow, what a creative way to waste more money! Shame they can't put this creativity to better use. I can save them the time and the money. Hey! it's a BAD idea. York's already closed down too much. What do they do? Hold a Tombola to see who goes on holiday at the tax payers expense? I've a better idea, sell raffle tickets. That could help raise funds for 20mph signs! Why is it not possible to remove this council with a vote of no confidence by the people that elected it? Surely there must be some old and obscure law that was used to protect peoples rights that fits the bill?
York1234 wrote: I wish someone would put in an foi about the 4 officers who will be going to California to check out KE idea of closing parts of York down on Sundays. Trip not booked yet but in planning stage. KE? Wow, what a creative way to waste more money! Shame they can't put this creativity to better use. I can save them the time and the money. Hey! it's a BAD idea. York's already closed down too much. What do they do? Hold a Tombola to see who goes on holiday at the tax payers expense? I've a better idea, sell raffle tickets. That could help raise funds for 20mph signs! Why is it not possible to remove this council with a vote of no confidence by the people that elected it? Surely there must be some old and obscure law that was used to protect peoples rights that fits the bill? deckhanddave
  • Score: 5

9:59am Sat 19 Jul 14

oi oi savaloy says...

deckhanddave wrote:
York1234 wrote:
I wish someone would put in an foi about the 4 officers who will be going to California to check out KE idea of closing parts of York down on Sundays. Trip not booked yet but in planning stage.

KE? Wow, what a creative way to waste more money! Shame they can't put this creativity to better use. I can save them the time and the money. Hey! it's a BAD idea. York's already closed down too much. What do they do? Hold a Tombola to see who goes on holiday at the tax payers expense? I've a better idea, sell raffle tickets. That could help raise funds for 20mph signs! Why is it not possible to remove this council with a vote of no confidence by the people that elected it? Surely there must be some old and obscure law that was used to protect peoples rights that fits the bill?
"ALL ABOARD THE GRAVY TRAIN" seems apt that the council moved into the west offices , home of the old railway station now! this is absolutley disgusting!! this is just one big jolly funded by the hardworking residents of York!!
[quote][p][bold]deckhanddave[/bold] wrote: York1234 wrote: I wish someone would put in an foi about the 4 officers who will be going to California to check out KE idea of closing parts of York down on Sundays. Trip not booked yet but in planning stage. KE? Wow, what a creative way to waste more money! Shame they can't put this creativity to better use. I can save them the time and the money. Hey! it's a BAD idea. York's already closed down too much. What do they do? Hold a Tombola to see who goes on holiday at the tax payers expense? I've a better idea, sell raffle tickets. That could help raise funds for 20mph signs! Why is it not possible to remove this council with a vote of no confidence by the people that elected it? Surely there must be some old and obscure law that was used to protect peoples rights that fits the bill?[/p][/quote]"ALL ABOARD THE GRAVY TRAIN" seems apt that the council moved into the west offices , home of the old railway station now! this is absolutley disgusting!! this is just one big jolly funded by the hardworking residents of York!! oi oi savaloy
  • Score: 6

4:30pm Sat 19 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

Dr Martin wrote:
Dogwithabone wrote: Hello people on this press website. Please can someone explain why my comment has a score of -21 but there are no responses to what I have said. I find this a bit weird !!! How does this work ??????
I hear the voting is politically motivated but I doubt that, I think it's someone or a few people showing off, unfortunately unless you stop all voting you will not be able to stop it. I would say to them please stop making it so obvious
The sore hacker only tampers with threads that are to do with thecouncil/labour!
[quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dogwithabone[/bold] wrote: Hello people on this press website. Please can someone explain why my comment has a score of -21 but there are no responses to what I have said. I find this a bit weird !!! How does this work ??????[/p][/quote]I hear the voting is politically motivated but I doubt that, I think it's someone or a few people showing off, unfortunately unless you stop all voting you will not be able to stop it. I would say to them please stop making it so obvious[/p][/quote]The sore hacker only tampers with threads that are to do with thecouncil/labour! Badgers Drift
  • Score: 5

5:01pm Sat 19 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

York1234 wrote:
I wish someone would put in an foi about the 4 officers who will be going to California to check out KE idea of closing parts of York down on Sundays. Trip not booked yet but in planning stage. Not a good use of our money
Will one of the officers be American-born, Katie Stewart?

According to the council's overseas travel records, Ms Stewart visited Chicago from 17-20th October 2012, and New York on 21st October 2012, at a cost of £1,497.96.

She also spent four days at the Cannes/Nice MIPIM event in 2013 with Darren Richardson, at a cost of £3,313.55.

She also spent a further four days again in Cannes for another MIPIM event in March this year. She was joined by two council colleagues; Andrew sharp (4 days) and Kersten england (2 days), at a totalcost of £5,747

Is it just one long series of jollies for these highly-paid (Ms Stewart's current salary is £61,337/yr) public servants?
[quote][p][bold]York1234[/bold] wrote: I wish someone would put in an foi about the 4 officers who will be going to California to check out KE idea of closing parts of York down on Sundays. Trip not booked yet but in planning stage. Not a good use of our money[/p][/quote]Will one of the officers be American-born, Katie Stewart? According to the council's overseas travel records, Ms Stewart visited Chicago from 17-20th October 2012, and New York on 21st October 2012, at a cost of £1,497.96. She also spent four days at the Cannes/Nice MIPIM event in 2013 with Darren Richardson, at a cost of £3,313.55. She also spent a further four days again in Cannes for another MIPIM event in March this year. She was joined by two council colleagues; Andrew sharp (4 days) and Kersten england (2 days), at a totalcost of £5,747 Is it just one long series of jollies for these highly-paid (Ms Stewart's current salary is £61,337/yr) public servants? Badgers Drift
  • Score: 9

9:34am Sun 20 Jul 14

Cheeky face says...

Badgers Drift,

Good information. But how much is wasted in the office by employees chasing others in higher positions for responses that never occur!

I would hope the Press would go for FOI on this and other spurious issues.
Badgers Drift, Good information. But how much is wasted in the office by employees chasing others in higher positions for responses that never occur! I would hope the Press would go for FOI on this and other spurious issues. Cheeky face
  • Score: 5

7:34am Mon 21 Jul 14

Bonnie Clyde says...

York Council habitually withholds information it does not what the public to see. For one example of this, go to: grandmabarbara.wordp
ress.com
York Council habitually withholds information it does not what the public to see. For one example of this, go to: grandmabarbara.wordp ress.com Bonnie Clyde
  • Score: 4

7:05pm Mon 21 Jul 14

lostand found says...

Cheeky face wrote:
It has been well suspected since 2009 that York council fudge replies, avoid replies, or spoil apologies with excuses.

James Alexander promised to be open and honest when I escalated difficult questions on Coppergate/Lendal Br to him; that was Feb 2014.. I am still awaiting a response to 7 follow up questions on Coppergate; submitted to Transport Planners on 3rd June 2014.

My Lendal Br concerns are to go to them soon.
i have reported the council to ioi for refusing to answer my questions they must or are fined
[quote][p][bold]Cheeky face[/bold] wrote: It has been well suspected since 2009 that York council fudge replies, avoid replies, or spoil apologies with excuses. James Alexander promised to be open and honest when I escalated difficult questions on Coppergate/Lendal Br to him; that was Feb 2014.. I am still awaiting a response to 7 follow up questions on Coppergate; submitted to Transport Planners on 3rd June 2014. My Lendal Br concerns are to go to them soon.[/p][/quote]i have reported the council to ioi for refusing to answer my questions they must or are fined lostand found
  • Score: 6

7:09pm Mon 21 Jul 14

lostand found says...

Its proven that not only cant we trust Alexander or Merrett we cant trust all the labour councilors they should have given both walking orders
Its proven that not only cant we trust Alexander or Merrett we cant trust all the labour councilors they should have given both walking orders lostand found
  • Score: 6

7:13pm Mon 21 Jul 14

lostand found says...

the original Homer wrote:
pedalling paul wrote:
Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.
Council Officers should have the time to do their day job AND respond to FOI requests.

Of course, if they have more than one day job it can be more difficult.

It can be even more difficult if they routinely hide facts, as that just leads to more and more FOI requests.
Mr Hepworth are you sane
[quote][p][bold]the original Homer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Frankly I wish that professional stirrers would allow Council Officers to get on with their day job, and not distract them with repeated and aggravative requests under the FIO Act.[/p][/quote]Council Officers should have the time to do their day job AND respond to FOI requests. Of course, if they have more than one day job it can be more difficult. It can be even more difficult if they routinely hide facts, as that just leads to more and more FOI requests.[/p][/quote]Mr Hepworth are you sane lostand found
  • Score: 2

12:56am Tue 22 Jul 14

Littleladykatie says...

Mr Udigawa says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
TheTruthHurts wrote: I dont really buy that Bethany
not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above
Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles!
My point was about the hatred and trolling he gets. If he has two accounts then he's as bad as anyone else who also do that, regardless, he does very well not to descend into personal insults! Bethany
Hi Bethany,

I hacven't posted on here for a while but I'd like to add a few points regarding PH/PP.

In my opinion Paul is a serial troll.
He accuses people of having blinkers on and of having their heads in the sand, yet in his comments regarding council transparency and accountability he does exactly that!
He frequently corrects posters on spelling and grammar, even stooping so low as to pick on someone who was offering support to a Cancer charity fundraiser a couple of years back (the pink scarf around the Bar Walls story) without even commenting on the original story.

Now I'm doing the same and going off topic but it annoys me that this man thinks he has all the answers but dooesn't appear to live in the real world.
Occasionally I feel the pain of having to agree with him on some points but it's a shame that he does a really good job of alienating people.

Suggest you run back over a couple of weeks of his comments but to save you some time here's the gist:

Stand back, blue touch paper lit!
Non-essential car use.
Single occupancy car use.
Heads in sands.
Car users paradise.
Transport blinkers.
Stave off future gridlock (this one only exists in his head)
Lycra.
Sweat.
Pedal power.
Cycle trailer.
Waterproof panniers.
Local Transport Plan (LTP)
Tour bus
A Bullock is a cow with handlebars......


And then there is my personal favourite... 'Carmageddon!' ;)
Mr Udigawa says... BethFoxhunter96 wrote: TheTruthHurts wrote: I dont really buy that Bethany not only does Pedaling Paul maintain the moral high ground by not giving into the vote-rigging, obvious multiple-account owning trolls above Im guessing that you dont read the comments too much but PP/PH has two profiles! My point was about the hatred and trolling he gets. If he has two accounts then he's as bad as anyone else who also do that, regardless, he does very well not to descend into personal insults! Bethany Hi Bethany, I hacven't posted on here for a while but I'd like to add a few points regarding PH/PP. In my opinion Paul is a serial troll. He accuses people of having blinkers on and of having their heads in the sand, yet in his comments regarding council transparency and accountability he does exactly that! He frequently corrects posters on spelling and grammar, even stooping so low as to pick on someone who was offering support to a Cancer charity fundraiser a couple of years back (the pink scarf around the Bar Walls story) without even commenting on the original story. Now I'm doing the same and going off topic but it annoys me that this man thinks he has all the answers but dooesn't appear to live in the real world. Occasionally I feel the pain of having to agree with him on some points but it's a shame that he does a really good job of alienating people. Suggest you run back over a couple of weeks of his comments but to save you some time here's the gist: Stand back, blue touch paper lit! Non-essential car use. Single occupancy car use. Heads in sands. Car users paradise. Transport blinkers. Stave off future gridlock (this one only exists in his head) Lycra. Sweat. Pedal power. Cycle trailer. Waterproof panniers. Local Transport Plan (LTP) Tour bus A Bullock is a cow with handlebars...... And then there is my personal favourite... 'Carmageddon!' ;) Littleladykatie
  • Score: 2

6:28am Tue 22 Jul 14

Bonnie Clyde says...

Here's an interesting link:

http://wp.me/P1Nj7d-
35p
Here's an interesting link: http://wp.me/P1Nj7d- 35p Bonnie Clyde
  • Score: 2
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