Mosque hosts open day after demonstration threats

York Press: The gathering at the open day held at York Mosque The gathering at the open day held at York Mosque

MUSLIM leaders in York held an impromptu open day today, after receiving threats of a demonstration.

Officials at York Mosque, in Bull Lane, received a number of messages purporting to be from the English Defence League, which warned of a demonstration outside the building.

Professor Mohamed El-Gomati, from the University of York, is an elder at the Mosque, and said the messages indicated aggression following the death of drummer Lee Rigby, who was killed in Woolwich earlier this week.

Prof El-Gomati said: “We have already condemned that in the strongest language. Every right-minded person in the UK is angry but the anger should not be at your neighbours, the anger should be at the culprits who committed this heinous crime. If people sat down and talked, they may come to common, shared ground rather than shouting from a distance and not hearing what the other person is saying.”

More than 100 people attended the meeting, entering the Mosque to speak to the congregation and leaders, with a small representation from the EDL outside the building.

Prof El Gomati said: “Rather than have a shouting match outside we have invited people in to have a discussion and show solidarity over a cup of tea with us and see exactly what we are doing to dispel any myths. There is nothing better than knowledge.”

A spokesman for North Yorkshire Police said they had been made aware of the event, but no threats had been reported to them.

He said: "Officers from the local Safer Neighbourhood Team, who have a good working relationship with the local Imam, are supporting the communities through high visibility policing and local partnership liaison. North Yorkshire Police are continually monitoring social networking sites.”

Comments (36)

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10:38am Mon 27 May 13

rothko says...

It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone.
It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone. rothko

10:39am Mon 27 May 13

John Cossham says...

I left this event before it had finished, but I heard that one or more of the 4 EDL representatives did accept the invitation to go into the Mosque and have a civilised discussion. I'd say that's a win for community relations.

Secondly, an impromptu 5-aside football match took place, in preparation for the national Vicars vs Imans football tournament later this summer. I just hope that all the games end up in a draw!
I left this event before it had finished, but I heard that one or more of the 4 EDL representatives did accept the invitation to go into the Mosque and have a civilised discussion. I'd say that's a win for community relations. Secondly, an impromptu 5-aside football match took place, in preparation for the national Vicars vs Imans football tournament later this summer. I just hope that all the games end up in a draw! John Cossham

2:43pm Mon 27 May 13

BifferBacon says...

The best way of calming down angry people is the good old English way of a chat over a cuppa, anti fascist organisations e.g the UAF still don't realize this and insist on bad tempered street confrontation to prevent EDL demonstrations, this just polarises opinion.
The best way of calming down angry people is the good old English way of a chat over a cuppa, anti fascist organisations e.g the UAF still don't realize this and insist on bad tempered street confrontation to prevent EDL demonstrations, this just polarises opinion. BifferBacon

8:12pm Mon 27 May 13

ox-cabby says...

Absolutely brilliant!

Spot on I'd say. Resolve the issues over a nice hot cup of tea and some biscuits. All credit to the people of York. Thumbs up

Here in Oxford, we're doing something similar. However, we luckily haven't had any issues of violence or demonstrations

But lets be clear, we cant criticise a religion for the actions of 2 lunatics. If they said Santa told us, would we blame father Christmas. ....NO.....
Absolutely brilliant! Spot on I'd say. Resolve the issues over a nice hot cup of tea and some biscuits. All credit to the people of York. Thumbs up Here in Oxford, we're doing something similar. However, we luckily haven't had any issues of violence or demonstrations But lets be clear, we cant criticise a religion for the actions of 2 lunatics. If they said Santa told us, would we blame father Christmas. ....NO..... ox-cabby

9:52pm Mon 27 May 13

sunshingdaisiesbuttermellow says...

Amazing! so nice to see its not all doom and gloom.

Well done to the mosque for attempting to rid some of the ignorance's there are in todays day and age .

I hope this has set an example for other regions, who thrive in violence, fear and threats. This is the right way to go about sorting out differences, particularly religious ones, as a lot of hatred arises through misguided information.
Amazing! so nice to see its not all doom and gloom. Well done to the mosque for attempting to rid some of the ignorance's there are in todays day and age . I hope this has set an example for other regions, who thrive in violence, fear and threats. This is the right way to go about sorting out differences, particularly religious ones, as a lot of hatred arises through misguided information. sunshingdaisiesbuttermellow

10:05pm Mon 27 May 13

leelospav says...

to john cossam:
it was me who went for a coffee and the whole point of meeting up was to prove that you can't speak freely without being called a racist. Thankyou very much for that comment as you have just proved my point.
I also think we showed that EDL are not the racist thugs that people like you think we are by shaking your hand and being civilised...unlike a lot of the lefties who were shouting abuse, swearing and being aggressive.
to john cossam: it was me who went for a coffee and the whole point of meeting up was to prove that you can't speak freely without being called a racist. Thankyou very much for that comment as you have just proved my point. I also think we showed that EDL are not the racist thugs that people like you think we are by shaking your hand and being civilised...unlike a lot of the lefties who were shouting abuse, swearing and being aggressive. leelospav

1:26am Tue 28 May 13

John Cossham says...

Hello 'leelospav', I'm really pleased that you as one of the group of protesters was more openminded than the others and did go and have a conversation with the people in the Mosque. I respect people who can change their views. And thank you for being friendly enough to be the only one to shake my hand, I respect that. As for the gent with you, he wasn't as polite; maybe because of my Huguenot heritage?

I was brought up as an atheist, by a parent who believed anyone smitten by religion to be a misguided fool. He was (is) often rude to religious people about their faith. I have managed to be just a tad more open-minded than that, and accept and welcome diversity... I have friends who are Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Atheist... I have friends who are gay, bisexual, transsexual, asexual.... I have friends who are unemployed, alcoholic, who are head-teachers, one who's a judge. I have friends who are of African descent, Chinese, Indian, Dutch... I do not discriminate... we are all HUMAN BEINGS and this is what really matters.

So, if you're a member of the English Defence League, why not just be honest and say that you're a human being who doesn't like some other human beings. It's OK. I don't like everybody: I'm anticapitalist, I don't like out and out petrolheads, these are MY predjudices. I am 'out' as a green, someone who wants a better, low carbon world where people are nice to each other. These people who do stuff I don't like are still humans, and probably have every right to behave that way. You and your friends have every right to discriminate on racial grounds... but of course, some people will disagree with your stance, the same as some people who love their 4x4s and three times a year flights will thumb their nose at my views.

Oh, and by the way, I didn't see any 'lefties' as you call the friendly bunch who were supporting the multicultural community event, who were shouting, swearing or being aggressive. I will ask and find out if anyone did swear and behave aggressively towards the EDL group. I doubt it, as I expect the police would have stopped that immediately.
Hello 'leelospav', I'm really pleased that you as one of the group of protesters was more openminded than the others and did go and have a conversation with the people in the Mosque. I respect people who can change their views. And thank you for being friendly enough to be the only one to shake my hand, I respect that. As for the gent with you, he wasn't as polite; maybe because of my Huguenot heritage? I was brought up as an atheist, by a parent who believed anyone smitten by religion to be a misguided fool. He was (is) often rude to religious people about their faith. I have managed to be just a tad more open-minded than that, and accept and welcome diversity... I have friends who are Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Atheist... I have friends who are gay, bisexual, transsexual, asexual.... I have friends who are unemployed, alcoholic, who are head-teachers, one who's a judge. I have friends who are of African descent, Chinese, Indian, Dutch... I do not discriminate... we are all HUMAN BEINGS and this is what really matters. So, if you're a member of the English Defence League, why not just be honest and say that you're a human being who doesn't like some other human beings. It's OK. I don't like everybody: I'm anticapitalist, I don't like out and out petrolheads, these are MY predjudices. I am 'out' as a green, someone who wants a better, low carbon world where people are nice to each other. These people who do stuff I don't like are still humans, and probably have every right to behave that way. You and your friends have every right to discriminate on racial grounds... but of course, some people will disagree with your stance, the same as some people who love their 4x4s and three times a year flights will thumb their nose at my views. Oh, and by the way, I didn't see any 'lefties' as you call the friendly bunch who were supporting the multicultural community event, who were shouting, swearing or being aggressive. I will ask and find out if anyone did swear and behave aggressively towards the EDL group. I doubt it, as I expect the police would have stopped that immediately. John Cossham

10:56am Tue 28 May 13

oi oi savaloy says...

rothko wrote:
It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone.
very positive day indeed, meanwhile a few miles down the road muslims kidnap and torture a prison officer for a total of 4 hours!
[quote][p][bold]rothko[/bold] wrote: It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone.[/p][/quote]very positive day indeed, meanwhile a few miles down the road muslims kidnap and torture a prison officer for a total of 4 hours! oi oi savaloy

11:21am Tue 28 May 13

oscarz says...

Prof El-Gomati said: “We have already condemned that in the strongest language. Every right-minded person in the UK is angry but the anger should not be at your neighbours, the anger should be at the culprits who committed this heinous crime. If

These murdering cowards were somebody's neighbours! it is long about time that those preaching the politics of hate and division and murder should be given up to police or the security forces. I too want to see harmony and peace on our streets instead of the events at Woolwich. Good luck.
Prof El-Gomati said: “We have already condemned that in the strongest language. Every right-minded person in the UK is angry but the anger should not be at your neighbours, the anger should be at the culprits who committed this heinous crime. If These murdering cowards were somebody's neighbours! it is long about time that those preaching the politics of hate and division and murder should be given up to police or the security forces. I too want to see harmony and peace on our streets instead of the events at Woolwich. Good luck. oscarz

12:47pm Tue 28 May 13

alan_music says...

leelospav wrote:
to john cossam: it was me who went for a coffee and the whole point of meeting up was to prove that you can't speak freely without being called a racist. Thankyou very much for that comment as you have just proved my point. I also think we showed that EDL are not the racist thugs that people like you think we are by shaking your hand and being civilised...unlike a lot of the lefties who were shouting abuse, swearing and being aggressive.
sorry you dont fool me or anyone else. the EDL are racist thugs end of, anyone who goes round saying they support the European Defence Leauge well I hang my head in complete shame, next you will be telling Us Adolf Hitler was a decent chap who lost his way


your fooling no one
[quote][p][bold]leelospav[/bold] wrote: to john cossam: it was me who went for a coffee and the whole point of meeting up was to prove that you can't speak freely without being called a racist. Thankyou very much for that comment as you have just proved my point. I also think we showed that EDL are not the racist thugs that people like you think we are by shaking your hand and being civilised...unlike a lot of the lefties who were shouting abuse, swearing and being aggressive.[/p][/quote]sorry you dont fool me or anyone else. the EDL are racist thugs end of, anyone who goes round saying they support the European Defence Leauge well I hang my head in complete shame, next you will be telling Us Adolf Hitler was a decent chap who lost his way your fooling no one alan_music

1:38pm Tue 28 May 13

leelospav says...

alan_music wrote:
leelospav wrote: to john cossam: it was me who went for a coffee and the whole point of meeting up was to prove that you can't speak freely without being called a racist. Thankyou very much for that comment as you have just proved my point. I also think we showed that EDL are not the racist thugs that people like you think we are by shaking your hand and being civilised...unlike a lot of the lefties who were shouting abuse, swearing and being aggressive.
sorry you dont fool me or anyone else. the EDL are racist thugs end of, anyone who goes round saying they support the European Defence Leauge well I hang my head in complete shame, next you will be telling Us Adolf Hitler was a decent chap who lost his way your fooling no one
The one point i think every one is in agreement on is that you can't tar everyone with the same brush, which is what you are doing. Also, EDL stands for English Defence League. lol.
And to John Cossam, the aggressive behavior was right at the end of the day and the police did put a stop to it.
[quote][p][bold]alan_music[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]leelospav[/bold] wrote: to john cossam: it was me who went for a coffee and the whole point of meeting up was to prove that you can't speak freely without being called a racist. Thankyou very much for that comment as you have just proved my point. I also think we showed that EDL are not the racist thugs that people like you think we are by shaking your hand and being civilised...unlike a lot of the lefties who were shouting abuse, swearing and being aggressive.[/p][/quote]sorry you dont fool me or anyone else. the EDL are racist thugs end of, anyone who goes round saying they support the European Defence Leauge well I hang my head in complete shame, next you will be telling Us Adolf Hitler was a decent chap who lost his way your fooling no one[/p][/quote]The one point i think every one is in agreement on is that you can't tar everyone with the same brush, which is what you are doing. Also, EDL stands for English Defence League. lol. And to John Cossam, the aggressive behavior was right at the end of the day and the police did put a stop to it. leelospav

3:01pm Tue 28 May 13

John Cossham says...

Well, Leanne, it all turned out pretty well. I'd like to know why a reasonable and flexible person like you is hanging out with the EDL? I've seen photos of EDL supporters doing Nazi salutes, and some of the things they say are just nasty, or nonsense.

Maybe you have made a mistake being associated with them? Time to reconsider your political allegiances? And, they are a waste of time, as they are vastly outnumbered and won't ever get anywhere.
Well, Leanne, it all turned out pretty well. I'd like to know why a reasonable and flexible person like you is hanging out with the EDL? I've seen photos of EDL supporters doing Nazi salutes, and some of the things they say are just nasty, or nonsense. Maybe you have made a mistake being associated with them? Time to reconsider your political allegiances? And, they are a waste of time, as they are vastly outnumbered and won't ever get anywhere. John Cossham

6:01pm Tue 28 May 13

Trespar Zagenstuz says...

"....that you can't tar everyone with the same brush..." says Leelospav.
--------------------
-------------------
I absolutely concur, Leelospav.
So I trust you will join me in condemning the EDL for doing just against Muslims everywhere, in respect of one thuggish and barbaric attack on a person in Woolwich.
Or is it only certain racial stereotypes that cannot be 'tarred with the same brush'?
"....that you can't tar everyone with the same brush..." says Leelospav. -------------------- ------------------- I absolutely concur, Leelospav. So I trust you will join me in condemning the EDL for doing just against Muslims everywhere, in respect of one thuggish and barbaric attack on a person in Woolwich. Or is it only certain racial stereotypes that cannot be 'tarred with the same brush'? Trespar Zagenstuz

7:10pm Tue 28 May 13

greenmonkey says...

"It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone"
I just wonder why Leelospav felt it appropriate to join a protest outside the York mosque? No one from the mosque had anything to do with the events in Woolwich and clearly have condemned the brutal killing as did all those who came to support the mosque on the day. I don't recall protests outside Christian churches in Sweden, after the barbaric acts of Brevic on July 22nd 2011 (?) by an equally murderous killer who was opposed to immigration. It would not have been appropriate there just as protests outside any mosque are not appropriate now in York or anywhere else.
"It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone" I just wonder why Leelospav felt it appropriate to join a protest outside the York mosque? No one from the mosque had anything to do with the events in Woolwich and clearly have condemned the brutal killing as did all those who came to support the mosque on the day. I don't recall protests outside Christian churches in Sweden, after the barbaric acts of Brevic on July 22nd 2011 (?) by an equally murderous killer who was opposed to immigration. It would not have been appropriate there just as protests outside any mosque are not appropriate now in York or anywhere else. greenmonkey

11:47pm Tue 28 May 13

sunshingdaisiesbuttermellow says...

oi oi savaloy wrote:
rothko wrote:
It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone.
very positive day indeed, meanwhile a few miles down the road muslims kidnap and torture a prison officer for a total of 4 hours!
It's funny how, without any official confirmation that you assume it was a hostage situation involving muslims. Just another consumer of the modern day propaganda tools...
[quote][p][bold]oi oi savaloy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rothko[/bold] wrote: It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone.[/p][/quote]very positive day indeed, meanwhile a few miles down the road muslims kidnap and torture a prison officer for a total of 4 hours![/p][/quote]It's funny how, without any official confirmation that you assume it was a hostage situation involving muslims. Just another consumer of the modern day propaganda tools... sunshingdaisiesbuttermellow

11:49pm Tue 28 May 13

sunshingdaisiesbuttermellow says...

greenmonkey wrote:
"It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone"
I just wonder why Leelospav felt it appropriate to join a protest outside the York mosque? No one from the mosque had anything to do with the events in Woolwich and clearly have condemned the brutal killing as did all those who came to support the mosque on the day. I don't recall protests outside Christian churches in Sweden, after the barbaric acts of Brevic on July 22nd 2011 (?) by an equally murderous killer who was opposed to immigration. It would not have been appropriate there just as protests outside any mosque are not appropriate now in York or anywhere else.
Amen
[quote][p][bold]greenmonkey[/bold] wrote: "It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone" I just wonder why Leelospav felt it appropriate to join a protest outside the York mosque? No one from the mosque had anything to do with the events in Woolwich and clearly have condemned the brutal killing as did all those who came to support the mosque on the day. I don't recall protests outside Christian churches in Sweden, after the barbaric acts of Brevic on July 22nd 2011 (?) by an equally murderous killer who was opposed to immigration. It would not have been appropriate there just as protests outside any mosque are not appropriate now in York or anywhere else.[/p][/quote]Amen sunshingdaisiesbuttermellow

1:08am Wed 29 May 13

John Cossham says...

I'm disappointed that *someone* has chosen to complain about my second post which I wrote on 27th May, and it's been removed.

So much for free speech! I didn't abuse anyone or tell any lies. This eventuality is extremely unusual for my posts which are very carefully written and considered before hitting submit. I would love to know why The Press decided that it contravened their standards, or is any post that's reported automatically removed?
I'm disappointed that *someone* has chosen to complain about my second post which I wrote on 27th May, and it's been removed. So much for free speech! I didn't abuse anyone or tell any lies. This eventuality is extremely unusual for my posts which are very carefully written and considered before hitting submit. I would love to know why The Press decided that it contravened their standards, or is any post that's reported automatically removed? John Cossham

7:49am Wed 29 May 13

k_sthlm says...

greenmonkey wrote:
"It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone"
I just wonder why Leelospav felt it appropriate to join a protest outside the York mosque? No one from the mosque had anything to do with the events in Woolwich and clearly have condemned the brutal killing as did all those who came to support the mosque on the day. I don't recall protests outside Christian churches in Sweden, after the barbaric acts of Brevic on July 22nd 2011 (?) by an equally murderous killer who was opposed to immigration. It would not have been appropriate there just as protests outside any mosque are not appropriate now in York or anywhere else.
And there were no protests outside christian churches in Norway either. (The barbaric act of Anders Behring Breivik were perfomed in Utöya, Norway)
[quote][p][bold]greenmonkey[/bold] wrote: "It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone" I just wonder why Leelospav felt it appropriate to join a protest outside the York mosque? No one from the mosque had anything to do with the events in Woolwich and clearly have condemned the brutal killing as did all those who came to support the mosque on the day. I don't recall protests outside Christian churches in Sweden, after the barbaric acts of Brevic on July 22nd 2011 (?) by an equally murderous killer who was opposed to immigration. It would not have been appropriate there just as protests outside any mosque are not appropriate now in York or anywhere else.[/p][/quote]And there were no protests outside christian churches in Norway either. (The barbaric act of Anders Behring Breivik were perfomed in Utöya, Norway) k_sthlm

8:27am Wed 29 May 13

oi oi savaloy says...

sunshingdaisiesbutte
rmellow
wrote:
oi oi savaloy wrote:
rothko wrote:
It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone.
very positive day indeed, meanwhile a few miles down the road muslims kidnap and torture a prison officer for a total of 4 hours!
It's funny how, without any official confirmation that you assume it was a hostage situation involving muslims. Just another consumer of the modern day propaganda tools...
i never assumed anything! would you like to know that 2 were african born muslims and 1 was a british born convert? what i dont understand is why the local news must have known this but didn't report it! what i am is not a blinkered fool like you probably are, what you say i assumed is a now known fact... please explain the propaganda tools to me which i used?
[quote][p][bold]sunshingdaisiesbutte rmellow[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oi oi savaloy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rothko[/bold] wrote: It was a really positive day. People of different faiths and no faith turning up to support their local mosque and show and not allow them to face intimidation alone.[/p][/quote]very positive day indeed, meanwhile a few miles down the road muslims kidnap and torture a prison officer for a total of 4 hours![/p][/quote]It's funny how, without any official confirmation that you assume it was a hostage situation involving muslims. Just another consumer of the modern day propaganda tools...[/p][/quote]i never assumed anything! would you like to know that 2 were african born muslims and 1 was a british born convert? what i dont understand is why the local news must have known this but didn't report it! what i am is not a blinkered fool like you probably are, what you say i assumed is a now known fact... please explain the propaganda tools to me which i used? oi oi savaloy

10:32am Wed 29 May 13

Trespar Zagenstuz says...

oi oi savaloy says...
{8:27am Wed 29 May 13}

"..please explain the propaganda tools to me which i used?"
------------------..
.-------------------
----
Sadly, 'Oi-Oi', it was you who were the victim, or indeed the consumer, of the 'propaganda tools'.
The news-casting agencies like nothing more than spreading potential trouble, it's more news-worthy than tedious fact. But I suspect that the York Press were not fully aware of the facts when the story broke, so could only insinuate that this was racially motivated and thus establish a link in the minds of the readers to the attack in Woolwich.
We are all blinkered, Oi-Oi; as much by the media as deliberately by the tory government; but that does not necessarily make us all fools....
oi oi savaloy says... {8:27am Wed 29 May 13} "..please explain the propaganda tools to me which i used?" ------------------.. .------------------- ---- Sadly, 'Oi-Oi', it was you who were the victim, or indeed the consumer, of the 'propaganda tools'. The news-casting agencies like nothing more than spreading potential trouble, it's more news-worthy than tedious fact. But I suspect that the York Press were not fully aware of the facts when the story broke, so could only insinuate that this was racially motivated and thus establish a link in the minds of the readers to the attack in Woolwich. We are all blinkered, Oi-Oi; as much by the media as deliberately by the tory government; but that does not necessarily make us all fools.... Trespar Zagenstuz

11:05am Wed 29 May 13

oi oi savaloy says...

Trespar Zagenstuz wrote:
oi oi savaloy says...
{8:27am Wed 29 May 13}

"..please explain the propaganda tools to me which i used?"
------------------..

.-------------------

----
Sadly, 'Oi-Oi', it was you who were the victim, or indeed the consumer, of the 'propaganda tools'.
The news-casting agencies like nothing more than spreading potential trouble, it's more news-worthy than tedious fact. But I suspect that the York Press were not fully aware of the facts when the story broke, so could only insinuate that this was racially motivated and thus establish a link in the minds of the readers to the attack in Woolwich.
We are all blinkered, Oi-Oi; as much by the media as deliberately by the tory government; but that does not necessarily make us all fools....
What on earth are you on about?

I stated a fact that a prison officer was taken against his will and detained by 3 Muslims for around 4 hours ,and beaten! The York press at the time left the fact that it was Muslims out ,no one stated it was radicals! I suggest you go back and read up , local news were trying to ignore the fact that it was 3 Muslims !
[quote][p][bold]Trespar Zagenstuz[/bold] wrote: oi oi savaloy says... {8:27am Wed 29 May 13} "..please explain the propaganda tools to me which i used?" ------------------.. .------------------- ---- Sadly, 'Oi-Oi', it was you who were the victim, or indeed the consumer, of the 'propaganda tools'. The news-casting agencies like nothing more than spreading potential trouble, it's more news-worthy than tedious fact. But I suspect that the York Press were not fully aware of the facts when the story broke, so could only insinuate that this was racially motivated and thus establish a link in the minds of the readers to the attack in Woolwich. We are all blinkered, Oi-Oi; as much by the media as deliberately by the tory government; but that does not necessarily make us all fools....[/p][/quote]What on earth are you on about? I stated a fact that a prison officer was taken against his will and detained by 3 Muslims for around 4 hours ,and beaten! The York press at the time left the fact that it was Muslims out ,no one stated it was radicals! I suggest you go back and read up , local news were trying to ignore the fact that it was 3 Muslims ! oi oi savaloy

11:33am Wed 29 May 13

TerryYork says...

We should absolutely rally around this Mosque if they ever need it. Being "York" means something and this Mosque (and the new one that will go in its place) has absolutely become a welcome part of the community.

Maybe the Arch Bishop could invite Professor Mohamed El-Gomati to a York City game, because I know we would love to give him a round of applause and show that our football supporters have absolutely nothing to do with the EDL (set up by Luton football supporters).

"We're York and we're Proud of it" is very apt, per the above story.
We should absolutely rally around this Mosque if they ever need it. Being "York" means something and this Mosque (and the new one that will go in its place) has absolutely become a welcome part of the community. Maybe the Arch Bishop could invite Professor Mohamed El-Gomati to a York City game, because I know we would love to give him a round of applause and show that our football supporters have absolutely nothing to do with the EDL (set up by Luton football supporters). "We're York and we're Proud of it" is very apt, per the above story. TerryYork

3:29pm Wed 29 May 13

sunshingdaisiesbuttermellow says...

oi oi savaloy wrote:
Trespar Zagenstuz wrote:
oi oi savaloy says...
{8:27am Wed 29 May 13}

"..please explain the propaganda tools to me which i used?"
------------------..


.-------------------


----
Sadly, 'Oi-Oi', it was you who were the victim, or indeed the consumer, of the 'propaganda tools'.
The news-casting agencies like nothing more than spreading potential trouble, it's more news-worthy than tedious fact. But I suspect that the York Press were not fully aware of the facts when the story broke, so could only insinuate that this was racially motivated and thus establish a link in the minds of the readers to the attack in Woolwich.
We are all blinkered, Oi-Oi; as much by the media as deliberately by the tory government; but that does not necessarily make us all fools....
What on earth are you on about?

I stated a fact that a prison officer was taken against his will and detained by 3 Muslims for around 4 hours ,and beaten! The York press at the time left the fact that it was Muslims out ,no one stated it was radicals! I suggest you go back and read up , local news were trying to ignore the fact that it was 3 Muslims !
At the point of you 'stating a fact' , it was not a fact laid down by an official body (and i for one do not class the newspapers as official bodys).

Perhaps now it has been released that the act was carried out by muslims, however you assumed it was a fact far too prematurely.

As for York press leaving 'the fact that it was muslims out' , well credit to The Press for not jumping on the same bandwagon as all the other national newspapers.
[quote][p][bold]oi oi savaloy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Trespar Zagenstuz[/bold] wrote: oi oi savaloy says... {8:27am Wed 29 May 13} "..please explain the propaganda tools to me which i used?" ------------------.. .------------------- ---- Sadly, 'Oi-Oi', it was you who were the victim, or indeed the consumer, of the 'propaganda tools'. The news-casting agencies like nothing more than spreading potential trouble, it's more news-worthy than tedious fact. But I suspect that the York Press were not fully aware of the facts when the story broke, so could only insinuate that this was racially motivated and thus establish a link in the minds of the readers to the attack in Woolwich. We are all blinkered, Oi-Oi; as much by the media as deliberately by the tory government; but that does not necessarily make us all fools....[/p][/quote]What on earth are you on about? I stated a fact that a prison officer was taken against his will and detained by 3 Muslims for around 4 hours ,and beaten! The York press at the time left the fact that it was Muslims out ,no one stated it was radicals! I suggest you go back and read up , local news were trying to ignore the fact that it was 3 Muslims ![/p][/quote]At the point of you 'stating a fact' , it was not a fact laid down by an official body (and i for one do not class the newspapers as official bodys). Perhaps now it has been released that the act was carried out by muslims, however you assumed it was a fact far too prematurely. As for York press leaving 'the fact that it was muslims out' , well credit to The Press for not jumping on the same bandwagon as all the other national newspapers. sunshingdaisiesbuttermellow

4:55pm Wed 29 May 13

Trespar Zagenstuz says...

Furthermore, "Sunshingdaisiesbutt
ermellow",
The press added a point of order in their follow-up article:
"It was reported that the attack was masterminded by Islamic extremist Parviz Khan, who is serving a life sentence for plotting to behead a British soldier, but it later emerged he is not an inmate at Full Sutton. ".

So the York Press were being rather sensibly circumspect in not drawing a particular conclusion, and sticking to what they knew at the time.
Racism is, of course, a very sensitive area, so The Press have to avoid falling into the trap of stating assumptions they might later come to regret, and may be possibly slanderous, I suppose.
What some of their readers wish to add in their own minds is up to them, of course....
Furthermore, "Sunshingdaisiesbutt ermellow", The press added a point of order in their follow-up article: "It was reported that the attack was masterminded by Islamic extremist Parviz Khan, who is serving a life sentence for plotting to behead a British soldier, but it later emerged he is not an inmate at Full Sutton. ". So the York Press were being rather sensibly circumspect in not drawing a particular conclusion, and sticking to what they knew at the time. Racism is, of course, a very sensitive area, so The Press have to avoid falling into the trap of stating assumptions they might later come to regret, and may be possibly slanderous, I suppose. What some of their readers wish to add in their own minds is up to them, of course.... Trespar Zagenstuz

5:04pm Wed 29 May 13

infidel1980 says...

also i believe that the report in the press was not a fair representation of what went on, lefties reporters i suppose!! and well done to Leanne for a good day!!
also i believe that the report in the press was not a fair representation of what went on, lefties reporters i suppose!! and well done to Leanne for a good day!! infidel1980

5:29pm Wed 29 May 13

Trespar Zagenstuz says...

"you dont see christians, jews, buddists, sikhs blowing innocent people up, getting children to become suicide bombers!!" says 'Infidel 1980'.

Christians have been murdering members of other religions since the crusades against Muslims and Albigensians. They seem to want to murder factionally too, Anglican Christians against Popish ones such as happened in Northern Ireland for at least two hundred years.

Jews have a history of terrorism in Palestine, although it's very much masked for convenience by The Pentagon.

Sikhs have fought Muslims in the Punjab region of the Indian sub-continent.

I'm afraid that most organised religions tend, by their political nature to always assume a position of superiority over others. History shows it was ever thus.
Mercifully, the majority of people who have a faith do not feel the need to demonstrate it in a murderous physical way.

And Buddhism is not strictly speaking a religion. It's a set of beliefs, the main one being tolerance of other sets of beliefs. So Buddhists are unlikely to wage a war of hatred upon others.
"you dont see christians, jews, buddists, sikhs blowing innocent people up, getting children to become suicide bombers!!" says 'Infidel 1980'. Christians have been murdering members of other religions since the crusades against Muslims and Albigensians. They seem to want to murder factionally too, Anglican Christians against Popish ones such as happened in Northern Ireland for at least two hundred years. Jews have a history of terrorism in Palestine, although it's very much masked for convenience by The Pentagon. Sikhs have fought Muslims in the Punjab region of the Indian sub-continent. I'm afraid that most organised religions tend, by their political nature to always assume a position of superiority over others. History shows it was ever thus. Mercifully, the majority of people who have a faith do not feel the need to demonstrate it in a murderous physical way. And Buddhism is not strictly speaking a religion. It's a set of beliefs, the main one being tolerance of other sets of beliefs. So Buddhists are unlikely to wage a war of hatred upon others. Trespar Zagenstuz

6:48pm Wed 29 May 13

Trespar Zagenstuz says...

"also i believe that the report in the press was not a fair representation of what went on." says Infidel 1980.

So how do you, as a supposed right-wing roving reporter, interpret 'what went on' at the Mosque?
Do please give us the benefit of your observance. Were you actually there? I was.
"also i believe that the report in the press was not a fair representation of what went on." says Infidel 1980. So how do you, as a supposed right-wing roving reporter, interpret 'what went on' at the Mosque? Do please give us the benefit of your observance. Were you actually there? I was. Trespar Zagenstuz

7:23pm Wed 29 May 13

fear your government says...

whatever your thoughts on the followings of islam, disliking the religon does not make you a rascist...
islam is not a race it is a docturen just like christianity juadism and countless others drempt up to keep you all in your place.

lets play divide and conquer!

IT REALLY WORKS !
whatever your thoughts on the followings of islam, disliking the religon does not make you a rascist... islam is not a race it is a docturen just like christianity juadism and countless others drempt up to keep you all in your place. lets play divide and conquer! IT REALLY WORKS ! fear your government

5:05pm Thu 30 May 13

oi oi savaloy says...

sunshingdaisiesbutte
rmellow
wrote:
oi oi savaloy wrote:
Trespar Zagenstuz wrote:
oi oi savaloy says...
{8:27am Wed 29 May 13}

"..please explain the propaganda tools to me which i used?"
------------------..



.-------------------



----
Sadly, 'Oi-Oi', it was you who were the victim, or indeed the consumer, of the 'propaganda tools'.
The news-casting agencies like nothing more than spreading potential trouble, it's more news-worthy than tedious fact. But I suspect that the York Press were not fully aware of the facts when the story broke, so could only insinuate that this was racially motivated and thus establish a link in the minds of the readers to the attack in Woolwich.
We are all blinkered, Oi-Oi; as much by the media as deliberately by the tory government; but that does not necessarily make us all fools....
What on earth are you on about?

I stated a fact that a prison officer was taken against his will and detained by 3 Muslims for around 4 hours ,and beaten! The York press at the time left the fact that it was Muslims out ,no one stated it was radicals! I suggest you go back and read up , local news were trying to ignore the fact that it was 3 Muslims !
At the point of you 'stating a fact' , it was not a fact laid down by an official body (and i for one do not class the newspapers as official bodys).

Perhaps now it has been released that the act was carried out by muslims, however you assumed it was a fact far too prematurely.

As for York press leaving 'the fact that it was muslims out' , well credit to The Press for not jumping on the same bandwagon as all the other national newspapers.
obvious to me that you are some loony labour voter who just doesnt get it! listen very carefully, i will state this only one more time! " i didnt assume anything at the time i posted my first comment, i knew what had happened" now go and take your tablet
[quote][p][bold]sunshingdaisiesbutte rmellow[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oi oi savaloy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Trespar Zagenstuz[/bold] wrote: oi oi savaloy says... {8:27am Wed 29 May 13} "..please explain the propaganda tools to me which i used?" ------------------.. .------------------- ---- Sadly, 'Oi-Oi', it was you who were the victim, or indeed the consumer, of the 'propaganda tools'. The news-casting agencies like nothing more than spreading potential trouble, it's more news-worthy than tedious fact. But I suspect that the York Press were not fully aware of the facts when the story broke, so could only insinuate that this was racially motivated and thus establish a link in the minds of the readers to the attack in Woolwich. We are all blinkered, Oi-Oi; as much by the media as deliberately by the tory government; but that does not necessarily make us all fools....[/p][/quote]What on earth are you on about? I stated a fact that a prison officer was taken against his will and detained by 3 Muslims for around 4 hours ,and beaten! The York press at the time left the fact that it was Muslims out ,no one stated it was radicals! I suggest you go back and read up , local news were trying to ignore the fact that it was 3 Muslims ![/p][/quote]At the point of you 'stating a fact' , it was not a fact laid down by an official body (and i for one do not class the newspapers as official bodys). Perhaps now it has been released that the act was carried out by muslims, however you assumed it was a fact far too prematurely. As for York press leaving 'the fact that it was muslims out' , well credit to The Press for not jumping on the same bandwagon as all the other national newspapers.[/p][/quote]obvious to me that you are some loony labour voter who just doesnt get it! listen very carefully, i will state this only one more time! " i didnt assume anything at the time i posted my first comment, i knew what had happened" now go and take your tablet oi oi savaloy

7:18pm Thu 30 May 13

PinzaC55 says...

Trespar Zagenstuz wrote:
Furthermore, "Sunshingdaisie
sbutt
ermellow",
The press added a point of order in their follow-up article:
"It was reported that the attack was masterminded by Islamic extremist Parviz Khan, who is serving a life sentence for plotting to behead a British soldier, but it later emerged he is not an inmate at Full Sutton. ".

So the York Press were being rather sensibly circumspect in not drawing a particular conclusion, and sticking to what they knew at the time.
Racism is, of course, a very sensitive area, so The Press have to avoid falling into the trap of stating assumptions they might later come to regret, and may be possibly slanderous, I suppose.
What some of their readers wish to add in their own minds is up to them, of course....
Islam/muslim is not a "race" so what is your point?
[quote][p][bold]Trespar Zagenstuz[/bold] wrote: Furthermore, "Sunshingdaisie sbutt ermellow", The press added a point of order in their follow-up article: "It was reported that the attack was masterminded by Islamic extremist Parviz Khan, who is serving a life sentence for plotting to behead a British soldier, but it later emerged he is not an inmate at Full Sutton. ". So the York Press were being rather sensibly circumspect in not drawing a particular conclusion, and sticking to what they knew at the time. Racism is, of course, a very sensitive area, so The Press have to avoid falling into the trap of stating assumptions they might later come to regret, and may be possibly slanderous, I suppose. What some of their readers wish to add in their own minds is up to them, of course....[/p][/quote]Islam/muslim is not a "race" so what is your point? PinzaC55

10:46pm Thu 30 May 13

John Cossham says...

I think it's reasonable to accept that some people of average intelligence and below average intelligence will look at 'Muslim countries', such as some in north Africa and the Middle East, and see that they are also Arab countries, and therefore equate Arab and Muslim.

And, it is true, that in this country, the majority of Muslims are Arab racially, with a smaller number from various other places such as Malaysia, Turkey and Eastern Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. Only small numbers of Muslims are Western European white, so it's probably easy for the average racist to mix up a religion with a non-white skin.

I'm not arguing they are right in doing so, just suggesting that it might be easy for some people to make that mistake.
I think it's reasonable to accept that some people of average intelligence and below average intelligence will look at 'Muslim countries', such as some in north Africa and the Middle East, and see that they are also Arab countries, and therefore equate Arab and Muslim. And, it is true, that in this country, the majority of Muslims are Arab racially, with a smaller number from various other places such as Malaysia, Turkey and Eastern Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. Only small numbers of Muslims are Western European white, so it's probably easy for the average racist to mix up a religion with a non-white skin. I'm not arguing they are right in doing so, just suggesting that it might be easy for some people to make that mistake. John Cossham

11:55pm Thu 30 May 13

PinzaC55 says...

John Cossham wrote:
I think it's reasonable to accept that some people of average intelligence and below average intelligence will look at 'Muslim countries', such as some in north Africa and the Middle East, and see that they are also Arab countries, and therefore equate Arab and Muslim.

And, it is true, that in this country, the majority of Muslims are Arab racially, with a smaller number from various other places such as Malaysia, Turkey and Eastern Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. Only small numbers of Muslims are Western European white, so it's probably easy for the average racist to mix up a religion with a non-white skin.

I'm not arguing they are right in doing so, just suggesting that it might be easy for some people to make that mistake.
Stupid people might make that mistake. Other , non-stupid people might deliberately equate a religion with race in order to insulate the religion from criticism.
[quote][p][bold]John Cossham[/bold] wrote: I think it's reasonable to accept that some people of average intelligence and below average intelligence will look at 'Muslim countries', such as some in north Africa and the Middle East, and see that they are also Arab countries, and therefore equate Arab and Muslim. And, it is true, that in this country, the majority of Muslims are Arab racially, with a smaller number from various other places such as Malaysia, Turkey and Eastern Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. Only small numbers of Muslims are Western European white, so it's probably easy for the average racist to mix up a religion with a non-white skin. I'm not arguing they are right in doing so, just suggesting that it might be easy for some people to make that mistake.[/p][/quote]Stupid people might make that mistake. Other , non-stupid people might deliberately equate a religion with race in order to insulate the religion from criticism. PinzaC55

12:42am Fri 31 May 13

John Cossham says...

Yeah, that too.

All I know is that I cannot stand any discrimination based on things we cannot help or don't really matter, and in that I include colour of skin, hair colour, height, which country the person was born, whether they believe in a god, gods, flying spaghetti monster or none of the above, whether they fall in love with the opposite sex or the same sex, or both.

What matters to me is how the person treats other people and how they treat the wider environment, which includes animals. If someone is a murderer or rapist, they get no respect from me, apart to grudgingly acknowledge they do still have human rights. If they are a racist who confronts people with their views in a peaceful way, they will get more respect than a racist who confronts people with those offensive views in an aggressive way, much less respect and acceptance.

So, for me, the crucial thing is what people *DO* rather than what they believe or look like... and some things that people do don't affect me (for instance, two guys who want to get married... doesn't affect my marriage, so, let them get married!) but some behaviour does affect me and people I care about. So, that's why I attended this tea party, as I care about some of the people who go to the Mosque and I didn't think they should face a racially or religiously motivated demonstration alone. I also wanted them to know that it wasn't just theists who cared about them.
Yeah, that too. All I know is that I cannot stand any discrimination based on things we cannot help or don't really matter, and in that I include colour of skin, hair colour, height, which country the person was born, whether they believe in a god, gods, flying spaghetti monster or none of the above, whether they fall in love with the opposite sex or the same sex, or both. What matters to me is how the person treats other people and how they treat the wider environment, which includes animals. If someone is a murderer or rapist, they get no respect from me, apart to grudgingly acknowledge they do still have human rights. If they are a racist who confronts people with their views in a peaceful way, they will get more respect than a racist who confronts people with those offensive views in an aggressive way, much less respect and acceptance. So, for me, the crucial thing is what people *DO* rather than what they believe or look like... and some things that people do don't affect me (for instance, two guys who want to get married... doesn't affect my marriage, so, let them get married!) but some behaviour does affect me and people I care about. So, that's why I attended this tea party, as I care about some of the people who go to the Mosque and I didn't think they should face a racially or religiously motivated demonstration alone. I also wanted them to know that it wasn't just theists who cared about them. John Cossham

12:06pm Fri 31 May 13

PinzaC55 says...

All I know is that I cannot stand any discrimination based on things we cannot help or don't really matter, and in that I include colour of skin, hair colour, height, which country the person was born, whether they believe in a god, gods, flying spaghetti monster or none of the above, whether they fall in love with the opposite sex or the same sex, or both.


So when you were at the tea party did you quiz them on their attitude to homosexuality and gay marriage, and ask them what the penalty was for apostasy?
In case you didn't here is a roundup for the former
http://www.thereligi
onofpeace.com/Quran/
026-homosexuality.ht
m
and for the latter
http://www.thereligi
onofpeace.com/Quran/
012-apostasy.htm
Next time they invite you round to tea ask them whether they reject these teachings from the quran and you'll have a better understanding of intolerance and discrimination.
[quote]All I know is that I cannot stand any discrimination based on things we cannot help or don't really matter, and in that I include colour of skin, hair colour, height, which country the person was born, whether they believe in a god, gods, flying spaghetti monster or none of the above, whether they fall in love with the opposite sex or the same sex, or both.[/quote] So when you were at the tea party did you quiz them on their attitude to homosexuality and gay marriage, and ask them what the penalty was for apostasy? In case you didn't here is a roundup for the former http://www.thereligi onofpeace.com/Quran/ 026-homosexuality.ht m and for the latter http://www.thereligi onofpeace.com/Quran/ 012-apostasy.htm Next time they invite you round to tea ask them whether they reject these teachings from the quran and you'll have a better understanding of intolerance and discrimination. PinzaC55

12:28pm Fri 31 May 13

John Cossham says...

Actually, I did mention to the Iman that I supported gay marriage and that I didn't understand why women and men had to be separate in the Mosque. He told me that they'd had a message of support from a bisexual man who unfortunately couldn't be at the event.

As for apostates, I know what it says in their book about that... but look at all the crap that's in the Bible about women not teaching, and not wearing clothes from mxed fibres, and many many other outdated rubbish ideas.

Very few Christians follow what's in the Bible word for word, and indeed, there are plenty of Muslims who are comfortable with the basics of Islam but don't follow the Q'ran word for word.

As you and anybody else knows, I'm not religious and I don't understand how anyone can believe the words from an old book so blindly, but this doesn't mean that I don't accept that people have a right to do that, and if they think that apostates should be killed, that's just as daft as the mixed fibres thing. However, as I said before, it's actions that matter, not beliefs. So if someone were to be killed for leaving the religion, THAT would be utterly utterly wrong and the people behind the act guilty of murder.

However, these sorts of nonsenses which you point out are why I'd like all religions to slowly die out as people realise they are not necessary for a good ethical and happy life.
Actually, I did mention to the Iman that I supported gay marriage and that I didn't understand why women and men had to be separate in the Mosque. He told me that they'd had a message of support from a bisexual man who unfortunately couldn't be at the event. As for apostates, I know what it says in their book about that... but look at all the crap that's in the Bible about women not teaching, and not wearing clothes from mxed fibres, and many many other outdated rubbish ideas. Very few Christians follow what's in the Bible word for word, and indeed, there are plenty of Muslims who are comfortable with the basics of Islam but don't follow the Q'ran word for word. As you and anybody else knows, I'm not religious and I don't understand how anyone can believe the words from an old book so blindly, but this doesn't mean that I don't accept that people have a right to do that, and if they think that apostates should be killed, that's just as daft as the mixed fibres thing. However, as I said before, it's actions that matter, not beliefs. So if someone were to be killed for leaving the religion, THAT would be utterly utterly wrong and the people behind the act guilty of murder. However, these sorts of nonsenses which you point out are why I'd like all religions to slowly die out as people realise they are not necessary for a good ethical and happy life. John Cossham

2:37pm Mon 10 Jun 13

yorkie250 says...

Trespar Zagenstuz wrote:
"also i believe that the report in the press was not a fair representation of what went on." says Infidel 1980. So how do you, as a supposed right-wing roving reporter, interpret 'what went on' at the Mosque? Do please give us the benefit of your observance. Were you actually there? I was.
yes i was there, and no i just expect an impartial report of the day and why we oppose...
[quote][p][bold]Trespar Zagenstuz[/bold] wrote: "also i believe that the report in the press was not a fair representation of what went on." says Infidel 1980. So how do you, as a supposed right-wing roving reporter, interpret 'what went on' at the Mosque? Do please give us the benefit of your observance. Were you actually there? I was.[/p][/quote]yes i was there, and no i just expect an impartial report of the day and why we oppose... yorkie250

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