York campaigners vow to continue fight for return of Richard III (From York Press)
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York campaigners vow to continue fight for return of Richard III
10:53am Friday 8th February 2013 in News
By Kate Liptrot, kate.liptrot@thepress.co.uk
A reconstruction of the face of King Richard III
CITY leaders have vowed to continue the fight to bring the remains of Richard III to York – despite the Minster stating it does not want them.
Remains found under a car park in Leicester were confirmed this week as those of the Yorkist King and, amid international debate, more than 12,000 people signed a petition to bring his remains to York Minster from Leicester. A similar petition for Leicester has attracted more than 4,000 signatures.
Campaigners yesterday suffered a setback after the Minster said it believed his remains should be interred at Leicester Cathedral.
However, City of York Council chief executive Kersten England and leader James Alexander said they will continue with their campaign.
Coun Alexander said: “While we acknowledge the sensitivities and delicacy of this matter, we have a duty to reflect the voice of the people of York, King Richard III’s descendants and academic opinion.”
He said the council had written to the Crown and the Ministry of Justice. He said: “Whatever the outcome, we would want a lasting memorial to this last Yorkist monarch in his spiritual home.”
Mrs England said they hoped to forge a closer relationship with Leicester to develop “the legacy of rediscovering Richard”.
A Minster spokesman said: “The Chapter of York understands the strong feeling of some people in York and Yorkshire that Richard III is significant to the history of the county and that therefore his body ought to be returned.
“York Minster itself has a window in his memory and many reminders of Richard’s place in our story.
“However, the recent verification of the identity of his remains follows a significant period in which Leicester and Leicestershire gained a sense of Richard belonging there, at least in death. It was Leicester Franciscans who gave him burial, and the cathedral has a major memorial to his memory at its heart. When the possibility of an excavation of the Greyfriars site began, it was agreed from the start that any remains found would be reinterred in Leicester. When the archaeologists found an intact body the Ministry of Justice licence was drawn up in those terms and explicitly named Leicester Cathedral. Since the news of the finding last year local people, like the people of York, have expressed a very strong wish that Richard, who has been with them since 1485, should stay in their keeping.
“The Chapter supports the terms of the Ministry of Justice licence and the wish of Chapter of Leicester that Richard should be reinterred in Leicester Cathedral. The Chapter of York commends Richard to Leicester’s care and to the cathedral community’s prayers.”
The Lord Mayor of York, Keith Hyman, and York Outer MP Julilan Sturdy have also written to the Queen and Ministry of Justice asking for Richard III to be buried in York.
The letter argues that the King’s remains should be reinterred in York, according to his lifetime’s wish, and not where he was killed in battle near Leicester.
Comments(40)
offa
says...
11:25am Fri 8 Feb 13
morriarty
says...
11:35am Fri 8 Feb 13
Omega Point
says...
11:54am Fri 8 Feb 13
whitehorse
says...
12:02pm Fri 8 Feb 13
Pete the Brickie
says...
12:35pm Fri 8 Feb 13
ReginaldBiscuit
says...
12:39pm Fri 8 Feb 13
Anyway, the Dean of York is a woman - Vivienne Frances Faull - and where was she Provost and Dean of before York? Yes, you've guessed it. Leicester Cathedral. I am surprised the local and national press hasn't picked up on this. They need to, she's a planted stooge from Leicester, a Leicester supporter.
Reg
BTW - Overheard in the pub last night. When Philippa Langley (the woman with the crush on the skeleton) walked into the room with her eyes shut and opened them to look at Richard's recreated face, wouldn't it have been fun if it was the head from Lionel Richie's 'Hello' video. :-D
whitehorse
says...
12:55pm Fri 8 Feb 13
Omega Point
says...
1:06pm Fri 8 Feb 13
Main question: what has her gender to do with anything?
As to planted stooge - took post before Richard was found.
.
ReginaldBiscuit
says...
1:25pm Fri 8 Feb 13
Omega Point wrote:I didn't say it did. Until December last year, it was exclusively a male role.
"Anyway, the Dean of York is a woman - Vivienne Frances Faull - and where was she Provost and Dean of before York? Yes, you've guessed it. Leicester Cathedral. I am surprised the local and national press hasn't picked up on this. They need to, she's a planted stooge from Leicester, a Leicester supporter."
Main question: what has her gender to do with anything?
As to planted stooge - took post before Richard was found.
.
She spent over ten years working in Leicester and you say that it won't affect her thinking or the fact that she just happened to 'go public' with her views? Pull the other one. This isn't a a dig about gender, this is about someone manipulating their position to influence an outcome (much like the Church of England synod voting against the ordination of women Bishops). Creationists around the world cause chaos, division, death and hatred wherever they espouse their mantra. History is littered with many thousands of examples and this whole story about Richard has nothing to do with creationists, it's all about where a man wanted to be buried.
PKH
says...
1:31pm Fri 8 Feb 13
CHISSY1
says...
1:51pm Fri 8 Feb 13
roskoboskovic wrote:"Could not agree more,let it drop nobody is interested only a handful of anoraks who have nothing better to do".
why waste your time on this poinless exercise.another example of middle class types with too much time on their hands and who have probably never given old rich a thought over their lifetimes but are now seeking to make a fuss.we ve never had him here during the last 5 1/2 centuries so we wont be missing him now.
whitehorse
says...
2:09pm Fri 8 Feb 13
CHISSY1 wrote:Oh- and 10,000 people who signed a petition...
roskoboskovic wrote: why waste your time on this poinless exercise.another example of middle class types with too much time on their hands and who have probably never given old rich a thought over their lifetimes but are now seeking to make a fuss.we ve never had him here during the last 5 1/2 centuries so we wont be missing him now."Could not agree more,let it drop nobody is interested only a handful of anoraks who have nothing better to do".
AngryandFrustrated
says...
2:09pm Fri 8 Feb 13
CHISSY1 wrote:A miracle has occurred!! I agree with you Chissy!
roskoboskovic wrote: why waste your time on this poinless exercise.another example of middle class types with too much time on their hands and who have probably never given old rich a thought over their lifetimes but are now seeking to make a fuss.we ve never had him here during the last 5 1/2 centuries so we wont be missing him now."Could not agree more,let it drop nobody is interested only a handful of anoraks who have nothing better to do".
If England and Alexander have nothing better to do, then so be it. However, they do it in their own time and at their own expense. I for one do not want any of my increased council tax spending on this ill-fated campaign, that doesn't have the support of the church they want to bury him in, at a time when front line services and grants are being cut.
I could almost stomach their lecherous attempts to bring Richard to York if they had one ounce of historical knowledge or any personal belief in this story and had been campaigning for years. However, they don't - this has nothing to do with Richard of York and has everything to do with money, money, money. The great gravy train of corporate greed.
It is an argument that will not be won. Because of the great gravy train of corporate greed, we have more chance of our councillors giving up all their expenses for a year than the city of Leicester and the Uni giving us Richard's remains.
Stop wasting time and resources on stupity England and Alexander and turn your efforts to sorting out the roads, care for the vulnerable and everything else that has been left to fester due to your cuts.
MouseHouse
says...
2:19pm Fri 8 Feb 13
eeoodares
says...
3:29pm Fri 8 Feb 13
roskoboskovic wrote:Wow you are a bigot! Standing pointing your finger at other classes and trying to find ways to differentiate between them is pretty shoddy behaviour, and you should be ashamed of yourself!
why waste your time on this poinless exercise.another example of middle class types with too much time on their hands and who have probably never given old rich a thought over their lifetimes but are now seeking to make a fuss.we ve never had him here during the last 5 1/2 centuries so we wont be missing him now.
As far as a pointless exercise, if this request makes national news and gets mentions in print, TV and Radio...how much would that be worth to raise the profile of the City? Or are you one of those moaning Yorkies who do not want tourists and visitors to the City?
CHISSY1
says...
4:08pm Fri 8 Feb 13
whitehorse wrote:"10,000 anoraks".
CHISSY1 wrote:Oh- and 10,000 people who signed a petition...
roskoboskovic wrote: why waste your time on this poinless exercise.another example of middle class types with too much time on their hands and who have probably never given old rich a thought over their lifetimes but are now seeking to make a fuss.we ve never had him here during the last 5 1/2 centuries so we wont be missing him now."Could not agree more,let it drop nobody is interested only a handful of anoraks who have nothing better to do".
Whitest Rose
says...
4:33pm Fri 8 Feb 13
Ripon Cathedral would make a good resting place being near to Middleham and the resting place of his son.
The area around Middleham is steeped with history about Richard and there is even a cheese named after him.
Sillybillies
says...
4:36pm Fri 8 Feb 13
Omega Point
says...
4:50pm Fri 8 Feb 13
ReginaldBiscuit wrote:If you have no issue with gender then why mention it?
Omega Point wrote: "Anyway, the Dean of York is a woman - Vivienne Frances Faull - and where was she Provost and Dean of before York? Yes, you've guessed it. Leicester Cathedral. I am surprised the local and national press hasn't picked up on this. They need to, she's a planted stooge from Leicester, a Leicester supporter." Main question: what has her gender to do with anything? As to planted stooge - took post before Richard was found. .I didn't say it did. Until December last year, it was exclusively a male role. She spent over ten years working in Leicester and you say that it won't affect her thinking or the fact that she just happened to 'go public' with her views? Pull the other one. This isn't a a dig about gender, this is about someone manipulating their position to influence an outcome (much like the Church of England synod voting against the ordination of women Bishops). Creationists around the world cause chaos, division, death and hatred wherever they espouse their mantra. History is littered with many thousands of examples and this whole story about Richard has nothing to do with creationists, it's all about where a man wanted to be buried.
Now her role as Dean of Leicester may have a part to play.
Where does creationist come in,it is nothing to do with the story here. There barking but no mention anywhere. Are you taking something?
again
says...
4:52pm Fri 8 Feb 13
Whistlejacket
says...
5:11pm Fri 8 Feb 13
made deeper by this motley crew
who scheme to have our bones removed
and to the bosom of York minster sent
Alexander, aye well we know his strutting ilk
A babb'ling brook would counsel truer
his glorious schemes will come to nought
he'd make a pig's ear from a purse of silk
Be we rude stamp'd, or of proportion fair
This rose of York must lay by where it fell
Ere England speaks, let England hear
I'll be the last white rose, or man, in Leicester's square.
(Apologies to you know who)
bob the builder
says...
6:14pm Fri 8 Feb 13
bloodaxe
says...
6:19pm Fri 8 Feb 13
roskoboskovic wrote:If you bothered to read any history you would know that it it is the middle class which gets things done, including revolutions. The workers provide the muscle, the middle class provide the brains. Look at the French, English and Russian Revolutions. Oh, and don't run away with the idea that Mao Tze Dong was a simple peasant either. As for not giving "old rich" a thought, who do you think runs the Richard III Society ? The other thing that middle class types do is to begin a sentence with a capital letter and employ apostrophes where appropriate.
why waste your time on this poinless exercise.another example of middle class types with too much time on their hands and who have probably never given old rich a thought over their lifetimes but are now seeking to make a fuss.we ve never had him here during the last 5 1/2 centuries so we wont be missing him now.
Mork
says...
7:03pm Fri 8 Feb 13
Mrs Maniac
says...
8:13pm Fri 8 Feb 13
again
says...
8:15pm Fri 8 Feb 13
"Charles Brunner, a descendent of Anne of York, Richard's sister, said: "We repatriate those who give their lives in battle, so why is this different?""
"Stephen Nicolay, the 16th great-grandson of Richard Plantagenet, 3rd Duke of York (father of Richard III) said: "York and the county of Yorkshire was, and remains, the physical and spiritual home of King Richard III."
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-england-yor
k-north-yorkshire-21
383950
I trust they have signed the petition:
http://epetitions.di
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/38772
richardofleicester
says...
8:21pm Fri 8 Feb 13
Great to hear from you all again... been a long time... thought you had forgotten me, especially as i didn't see you at the big bash... can't remember much about it... must have been a good one though cause i've got a splitting headache!
The strangest thing happened... must have fallen asleep cause i was dreaming i was lying on a beach in the sun, and then the next thing i knew there's this blinding light and here i am back in Leicester...
And what a great place it is too...
Friendly people - almost sound Northern!
and as for the food, wow i've never had gruel like it... really spicy! great for clearing the mud out your ears...
Anyway guess what i'm trying to say is...
Thanks ever so much for the invite, but i think i'll stay here...
After all it is the "heart of England" and from here I can see all of my loyal subjects in the North, South, East & West...
But please do come and see me, be great to see you again, after all it's only down the M1 road thingy...
and the Mayor has already spent a huge amount of wonga on a new home for me...
Yours Kingly
Richard of Leicester! ;-) xx
bob123456789
says...
9:09pm Fri 8 Feb 13
ReginaldBiscuit
says...
9:25pm Fri 8 Feb 13
Omega Point wrote:If you have no issue with breathing then why breathe? The fact that I mentioned her gender is neither here nor there but at least it made you think.
ReginaldBiscuit wrote:If you have no issue with gender then why mention it?
Omega Point wrote: "Anyway, the Dean of York is a woman - Vivienne Frances Faull - and where was she Provost and Dean of before York? Yes, you've guessed it. Leicester Cathedral. I am surprised the local and national press hasn't picked up on this. They need to, she's a planted stooge from Leicester, a Leicester supporter." Main question: what has her gender to do with anything? As to planted stooge - took post before Richard was found. .I didn't say it did. Until December last year, it was exclusively a male role. She spent over ten years working in Leicester and you say that it won't affect her thinking or the fact that she just happened to 'go public' with her views? Pull the other one. This isn't a a dig about gender, this is about someone manipulating their position to influence an outcome (much like the Church of England synod voting against the ordination of women Bishops). Creationists around the world cause chaos, division, death and hatred wherever they espouse their mantra. History is littered with many thousands of examples and this whole story about Richard has nothing to do with creationists, it's all about where a man wanted to be buried.
Now her role as Dean of Leicester may have a part to play.
Where does creationist come in,it is nothing to do with the story here. There barking but no mention anywhere. Are you taking something?
Creationists - any reason for a pop at creationists I will and the Dean of York unless I'm very much mistaken is a representative of the non-visible, non-evidential 'God'. This the same God presumably who chooses not to intervene or warn or stop disasters such as 9/11, the Japanese 2011 & 2005 Tsunami and the Iranian earthquakes. The God who can part a sea so we are told but is unable to save millions of lives. The God who presides gloriously over his subjects yet does nothing to prevent their ghastly demise via cancer, famine or war. The God who sits by and does nothing to halt the environmental destruction of the planet or is willing to remove the nuclear destruction that could be wrought on its surface? Perhaps our friend the Dean should focus on the more pressing questions and issues of life rather than using her position and bias influence to revert the wishes of a Christian king with whom she shares the 'same' God?
"Am I taking something?" - Is that all you can come back with when presented with a half-cogent set of thoughts with rationalised and opinionated debate and questioning? Are you unable to respond with anything other than an insult?
Omega Point
says...
10:59pm Fri 8 Feb 13
And you still have not given a reason why mention but the you say it is for no reason.
You are not even half-cogent with these issues. I am all the way with you god-thing but go back to the main thread and you went way off it.
" Are you unable to respond with anything other than an insult" What an odd thing to ask given our exchanges here.
Omega Point
says...
11:02pm Fri 8 Feb 13
bob123456789 wrote:A very tempting thought, but they would make up for it on the charge to see
Hate to say it, but I reckon the Minster are just trying to get out of the cost and hassle of bringing King Richard home. - just my personal opinion
NoMorePlease
says...
11:20pm Fri 8 Feb 13
ReginalsBiscuit, to say she is a stooge is just daft.,
History buff
says...
12:12am Sat 9 Feb 13
York Ministers refusal to accept the body is also less certain than they put across in their press statement. Presently they are showing solidarity as one part of the Anglican Church franchise to another that’s to be expected but if the reburial at Leicester was cancelled, due to for instance to successful litigation, they would change their minds very rapidly. Nor is the Minster entirely immune to public opinion because sufficient adverse opinion equals adverse publicity for the Minister that commercial/donation side of the Minister can do without. The Minister has dismissed a couple of thousands Ricardians as romantic cranks, but with 16,000+ having signed and Yorkshire politicians speaking out that’s becoming difficult to sustain and will be untenable if it comes near to the magic 100,000 mark. Then if not before there show of solidarity with Leicester will collapse.
mgztv6
says...
12:19am Sat 9 Feb 13
ismoqed
says...
12:57am Sat 9 Feb 13
However this is not about the Churches wishes if it can be demonstrated tha tRichard wanted to be buried here and the people wish him to buried in York then that should count. We should not forget that Richard had a strong northern affinity was highly regarded by the gentry and poor of the North for his relatively impartial Justice when Lord of the North and most importantly is virtually unique in British history for bringing Northerners down to replace southerners after Buckinghams rebellion. Can any one give me another example of a ruler who favoured the north over the south? Therefore if it does not cost too much and can be made to generate revenue bring him home.
Oh and by the way I am not a middle class anorak just a working class historian
Caliyorkia
says...
5:48am Sat 9 Feb 13
Whistlejacket wrote:Nice one.
Now is the winter of our discontent
made deeper by this motley crew
who scheme to have our bones removed
and to the bosom of York minster sent
Alexander, aye well we know his strutting ilk
A babb'ling brook would counsel truer
his glorious schemes will come to nought
he'd make a pig's ear from a purse of silk
Be we rude stamp'd, or of proportion fair
This rose of York must lay by where it fell
Ere England speaks, let England hear
I'll be the last white rose, or man, in Leicester's square.
(Apologies to you know who)
Whitest Rose
says...
7:52am Sat 9 Feb 13
ismoqed wrote:Ripon Cathedral does not charge and Richard had connections with Ripon Cathedral.
I should imagine that the Cof E stiched up which Cathedral was to have Richard long before the skeleton was confirmed to be Richard probably on the basis that Leicester needs the tourist income for its Cathedral more than York which despite its charges is a very popular venue.
However this is not about the Churches wishes if it can be demonstrated tha tRichard wanted to be buried here and the people wish him to buried in York then that should count. We should not forget that Richard had a strong northern affinity was highly regarded by the gentry and poor of the North for his relatively impartial Justice when Lord of the North and most importantly is virtually unique in British history for bringing Northerners down to replace southerners after Buckinghams rebellion. Can any one give me another example of a ruler who favoured the north over the south? Therefore if it does not cost too much and can be made to generate revenue bring him home.
Oh and by the way I am not a middle class anorak just a working class historian
Richard's remains are not treasure trove like the Staffordshire Hoard. They are the remains of a living breathing person that had connections with Yorkshire. Not just York itself but the Wensleydale area and South Yorkshire. Castles at Middleham and Pontefract.
It would be very fitting to bury him in Ripon which is a beautiful Cathedral.
If Leicester had dug up the battle armour of Richard 111, I would have no qualms about their right to display it in a museum but this is very different.
ismoqed
says...
1:44pm Sat 9 Feb 13
I never suggested that human remains equated to treasure trove only that both Leicester and York were thinking about the benefits to the church and the city and had probably agreed what was to happen before hand.
The idea of churches and cities haggling over bones would probably have shocked Richard far less than yourself as a Late Medieval King he would have been aware of past dsiputes over the ownership of saints remains to enhance the pigrim "trade".
As I indicated I think as a King with a significant northern Affinity he should come back tothe north and if Prof Pollard is right York would have been his choice.
However you could argue that as an anointed King his place is in Westminster Abbey with his wife Anne Neville who is already buried there, perhaps the current Royal family who claim descent from his niece could fund a suitable re burial thus cuttung cost to us and solving the Leicester v York dispute.
TOSH99
says...
10:44pm Mon 11 Feb 13
The Leicester Mayor Sir Peter Soulsby has said that a decision has been made.
So what now? If Leicester University want to bury Richard in Leciester they have the legal licence to do so. The only thing that can change this is a court order. Does any side really want to see our Money used for court proceedings when front line services are being cut. I read that Council Tax in York has gone up recently and that the roads are covered in more pot holls. I'm also expecting a Council Tax rise in Leicester this year and we also have our fair share of pot holls.
York has a Richard 3rd Musuem and was Richards home when he was alive, Leicester has a Richard 3rd statue, a Richard 3rd pub, The Leicester Council has recently bought a building that should house a possible museum and Richard has been buried in Leicester for 500+ years.
If this does go to court proceedings and York win, it will cost York in compensation as they may have pay all the costs and risks that Leicester have taken upto that point.
http://epetitions.di
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/39708
roskoboskovic says...
11:00am Fri 8 Feb 13