Mixed reactions over York’s high-speed railway link-up (From York Press)

... as if it will ever get built! The overspend and increasing costs will mean we will be lucky if it gets out of the Home Counties, let alone to the North which I'm not sure Whitehall could pinpoint on a map of England!

bob the builder wrote:
... as if it will ever get built! The overspend and increasing costs will mean we will be lucky if it gets out of the Home Counties, let alone to the North which I'm not sure Whitehall could pinpoint on a map of England!

Couldn't you get Scoop, Muck, Dizzy and Rollie to help you build it Bob?

Can we fix it?

Oops, I forgot Lofty.

"Whitehall Elephant"
The only people who need this are the fat cat contractors who will take two decades, pocketing cosy over budget contracts and delivering a network nobody will be able to afford to use.
In twenty years the only people lucky enough to be working in this country will be logging in and working from home..

Who can afford to travel by train? The whole thing is a complete shambles. It will only benefit business users but I guess that is all the Tories care about anyway.

bob the builder wrote:
... as if it will ever get built! The overspend and increasing costs will mean we will be lucky if it gets out of the Home Counties, let alone to the North which I'm not sure Whitehall could pinpoint on a map of England!

do you ever have anything positive to say about anything?

A needless railway line, and a waste of £32 billion of public money. Hopefully sense will prevail and this will cost our irresponsible government its office before it happens.

In the 18th and 19th Century the railways helped the economy by moving freight. The sole purpose here is to move passengers quickly. It will have no impact on the economy in the north other than to inflate house prices as London commuters can live further from work.

There are very few benefits to the people in the north although they will foot the bill as usual.

DEKKA wrote:

bob the builder wrote:
... as if it will ever get built! The overspend and increasing costs will mean we will be lucky if it gets out of the Home Counties, let alone to the North which I'm not sure Whitehall could pinpoint on a map of England!

do you ever have anything positive to say about anything?

Course not, just a whining buffoon!

Remember the time we were convinced that we should build the channel tunnel, direct rail links from York to the continent without leaving the train. HS2 will go the same way and run out of money and cost a fortune on consult fees, public enquiries before it even reaches the North.

By 2032 won't we all have flying cars that will cut the travel time to London to less than an hour anyway?

It would take me the same time to commute to Leeds Bradford Airport and York Station. The only downside is that I could not find a flight to City Airport London.
The fights are to and from Heathrow, IF I could fly direct to City Airport, it would be cheaper than the cheapest fares I could find on a train from York to Kings X.
The journey times are considerably less.

To Fly

Leeds Bradford airport with British Airways to Heathrow
Depart 08.45 arrive 11.00 – flight time 1.15 mins
Return 20.35 arrive 22.50 – fight time 1. 15 mins

Total cost Inc of all taxes etc £115.50

By Train

Depart York 08.55 arrive Kings X 10.51 – journey time 1.56 mins
Depart Kings X 1900 arrive York 20.50- Journey time 1.50 mins

Total cost £193.00 Inc

Working on the above would it not be better to invest NOW in our existing rail network and rolling stock. Subsidize the network so people can afford to commute to London / Return?
I cannot believe I could not find a flight from LBA to City Airport, there maybe is already. But if not I can see a market for it!

If it is going to Leeds, the spur to link onto the main east coast line and York is a good thing. However its vastly expensive glamour project that could be built for considerably less if the hyper speed was reduced eg to max150mph, at the cost of 5 or ten minutes more journey time. As for it boosting the North's economy there are far more useful ways this money could be spent, including key projects on the existing ageing network.

The fact that York is specifically mentioned in the announcement as this spur shows how important the economy in York is, not just in the North of England but nationally

The only question about that is that on the BBC's article on HS2 yesterday, it showed Wigan in just the same way that it showed York...

On the whole, I think HS2 will be great for the region, as long as there remain cheap ways to travel to London and the Midlands – whether that is by keeping ticket prices affordable on the HS2 route and/or by retaining the existing route as well.

Hmmm...creation of Jobs?

I suspect the building will be contracted out to a FOREIGN company and will have immigrant workers (do we remember Wembley Statdium?), so which Northern workers will benefir?

And as 'AB- Says' say, there will be all manner of delays sending the cost up.

Tourists? Well, I'm going down the line of pricing here, well-to-do tourists could afford it, but average guys who save to travel won't. Or is that the point? Just get the better-off to travel and spend?

Re: what 'yorkborn66' says, I agree, that has happend to me more than once with rail prices. So when my buddies invite me and the family to London, I have to decline as it means 48h in town vs a wk away for the family for the same price...

The world is changing, and I doubt that people will need to commute at that speed in a couple of decades time.
Why not spend a fraction of that money on the fibre infrastucture that some other countries already enjoy, get more people able to work from home, spend some on getting the freight back on to the railways, where it should be?

Hey! I wonder what Cllr John Blackie from Richmondshire would say to this Oldgoat; how much would hi-speed broadband to rural areas cost as an alternative? Nowhere near as much as £32Bn...

Fibre-connectivity would increase the capacity of the network, which is good for business, which means jobs & investment etc...Spend £whatever on this and with the change...who knows!?

I think you're onto something...

Lets listen to all the doom and gloomers and make sure this country is left further behind other major economies! For me this is long overdue by decades!

yorky1979

Can you explain exactly how this project will stop us being left behind by other countries?

It won't.

Cutting journey times to London by half an hour (yes thats all) will make NO DIFFERENCE to anyone other than London commuters exploiting their high wages to live in the cheaper north and raising house prices, thus pricing even more local people out of the market.

“Just by making Yorkshire and the north of England much more accessible.."

It'll most likely make the north of England accessible to people earning six-figure salaries in London who want to commute daily from picture postcard villages in the Vale of York, resulting in more house price inflation hammering people who are trying to live and work in the local economy.

It would take me the same time to commute to Leeds Bradford Airport and York Station. The only downside is that I could not find a flight to City Airport London.

Agreed completely that the lack of quick access to a decent airport is a serious problem for York's local economy. From where I'm starting, Teesside is easier to get to than LBA, but even so it's at least two hours from front door to aircraft steps and there is only one choice of airline alliance (KLM/Skyteam), which doesn't serve some parts of the world well at all. It would be wonderful if a mid-budget airline (e.g. Flybe) started flights from Elvington to LCY and a hub with good onward long-haul connections, and offering a selection of codeshares. It would also provide some real competition for East Coast Trains, and limit their ability to gouge their customers with ripoff fares.

It will only benefit business users...

Business users don't have a bottomless pit of money either. In fact, only last December, a group of York business leaders was complaining that the high cost of train fares to London was damaging the local economy. I agree. Because of the lack of parking, travelling by car is not an easy (or in many cases, realistic) alternative to the train if your final destination is inside the c-charge zone, and neither is there any air transport option that doesn't take significantly longer than the train from door to door, meaning that East Coast effectively has a monopoly on that route. That is what needs to change.

Guy Fawkes wrote:

“Just by making Yorkshire and the north of England much more accessible.."

It'll most likely make the north of England accessible to people earning six-figure salaries in London who want to commute daily from picture postcard villages in the Vale of York, resulting in more house price inflation hammering people who are trying to live and work in the local economy.

It would take me the same time to commute to Leeds Bradford Airport and York Station. The only downside is that I could not find a flight to City Airport London.

Agreed completely that the lack of quick access to a decent airport is a serious problem for York's local economy. From where I'm starting, Teesside is easier to get to than LBA, but even so it's at least two hours from front door to aircraft steps and there is only one choice of airline alliance (KLM/Skyteam), which doesn't serve some parts of the world well at all. It would be wonderful if a mid-budget airline (e.g. Flybe) started flights from Elvington to LCY and a hub with good onward long-haul connections, and offering a selection of codeshares. It would also provide some real competition for East Coast Trains, and limit their ability to gouge their customers with ripoff fares.

It will only benefit business users...

Business users don't have a bottomless pit of money either. In fact, only last December, a group of York business leaders was complaining that the high cost of train fares to London was damaging the local economy. I agree. Because of the lack of parking, travelling by car is not an easy (or in many cases, realistic) alternative to the train if your final destination is inside the c-charge zone, and neither is there any air transport option that doesn't take significantly longer than the train from door to door, meaning that East Coast effectively has a monopoly on that route. That is what needs to change.

This is what happened when the east coast line had the electrification completed resulting in faster journey times. Think it was 1-hour 45 mins.
House prices rocketed in and around York.
Think in the past it was Budge that tried to explore opening Elvington airfield for domestic flights to benefit York, and was swiftly kicked where it hurts.

Totally agree with your comments Guy Fawkes

Sorry but it seems to be a lot of money just to save 30 minutes on journey time. I expect the costs will be even higher by the time its completed. Far better to improve the current network and rolling stock.

Capt. Dobie wrote:
Hmmm...creation of Jobs?

I suspect the building will be contracted out to a FOREIGN company and will have immigrant workers (do we remember Wembley Statdium?), so which Northern workers will benefir?

And as 'AB- Says' say, there will be all manner of delays sending the cost up.

Tourists? Well, I'm going down the line of pricing here, well-to-do tourists could afford it, but average guys who save to travel won't. Or is that the point? Just get the better-off to travel and spend?

Re: what 'yorkborn66' says, I agree, that has happend to me more than once with rail prices. So when my buddies invite me and the family to London, I have to decline as it means 48h in town vs a wk away for the family for the same price...

This is one of the main points that you make. To travel to London with my wife and kids I could fly to Tenerife and back.
We are constantly bombarded with getting out of our cars and using public transport, but we do not have a viable alternative.
I really wish this Government would wake up and realize that “them Northern towns and cities “ made London what is is today, industry the first example.
I have no political allegiance to any party, but I wonder if this is just a political feel good smokescreen to detour people from what is really going on in this green and pleasant land of ours.
(Outside City of Westminster)

A lot of short sighted people on here.

This will bring more than just a high speed connection to London. Increased capacity for a start. The doubling in numbers of train travellers in the last decade and a half shows that it is an increasingly popular way of travel. More trains by likely another operator will bring/keep prices down. The east coast route will have to be more competitive. East Coast have a monopoly on it now, with a little competition from Grand Central who do a great service at a fairer price.

Those quoting "I can go to Tenerife for the same price" should note that you can get a return to London for as little as £20 at times. Plan ahead and there are bargain to be had.

The new route will also bring the data/fibre carrying capabilities that others talk about. It wont just be a high speed link. The money spent on this will safe guard and create many many jobs in the rail sector too. All good stuff for a railway town like York.

Bring it on

I cannot agree with the argument that the HS2 "will increase capacity". Yes, it will physically increase the number of rails and trains that run on those rails, but it does not necessarily follow that more people will use the service, principally because of the fact that the fares on the route will be more expensive.

The high speed link down South has not caused a surge in user numbers - a lot of people shun the service because it is significantly more expensive than the "normal" rail service and for the sake of 20 mins or so, your average punter isn't willing to shell out for it. Likewise, in Holland, their high speed service (Fyra I think it is called) hasn't generated the surge in numbers anticipated either.

Those that spout the "this will boost business for York" etc, answer me this. How will it? How will knocking 20 mins or so off the journey boost our local economy? Please give me some figures on what business you think will be created because we can get to London quicker.

I suspect no one will be able to because when countryside wrecking schemes like this are mooted, we are all told it will generate jobs, boost the economy etc so that the anti-NIMBY brigade can assume their high horses in readiness for dissing those people who don't care about the economy etc.

Businesses will invest in York because they want to and there is a good business reason for doing so. I don't recall House of Fraser stating that they would only invest if there was a HS2 link to York!

Bearing in mind the fact that it could be 2 decades before this project is finished (and the rest), I suspect it will be defunct before it is open, given the even increasing pace of technology. This money would be better suited on boosting the economy in different ways - reopen stations like Haxby and Strensall, build more social housing etc.

And as for nomadic85 - you try and find a rail ticket to London for £20 that departs York before 10am - you'll be looking for a while!! If you are willing to travel down at 11.54am and return at 21.03 then you may be lucky, but in the real world of business, it doesn't work like that.

nomadic85 wrote:
A lot of short sighted people on here.

This will bring more than just a high speed connection to London. Increased capacity for a start. The doubling in numbers of train travellers in the last decade and a half shows that it is an increasingly popular way of travel. More trains by likely another operator will bring/keep prices down. The east coast route will have to be more competitive. East Coast have a monopoly on it now, with a little competition from Grand Central who do a great service at a fairer price.

Those quoting "I can go to Tenerife for the same price" should note that you can get a return to London for as little as £20 at times. Plan ahead and there are bargain to be had.

The new route will also bring the data/fibre carrying capabilities that others talk about. It wont just be a high speed link. The money spent on this will safe guard and create many many jobs in the rail sector too. All good stuff for a railway town like York.

Bring it on

How far ahead do you need to book for a £20.00 return? Never come across this ever. (Please prove it) The transportation system should be accessible to ALL on a regular basis to reduce traffic congestion and emissions.
You are missing my point; I can on the day get cheaper flights to Tenerife than train tickets to London.
Businesspersons attending meetings and commuters to and from work need an Affordable, and a viable alternative to using the car.
The next time I am asked to go to London I will say “ sorry I will have to wait for a £20.00 train, or take my car”, stuff the important meeting or commute.
If you think this will bring wealth and prosperity to the North, history has already dictated it does not at all. Whilst a minority may benefit the majority will not.
This is not the answer at all. Serious investment in our existing network is what we need, not ripping up the countryside to please the select few.
I accept your comment but I for one, am not short sighted or deaf.
Bring it OFF!

This is going to be benefit to the North in genral
The closer we are to London in travel hours the better
There will be hundreds, possibly thousands of construction jobs created plus the benefit to suoppliers and professionals.
There will be closer contact with the south which we need for business and tourism as they are rich and we are poor!
its a shame the line cannot run in the air/underground/on the sea etc so no land will be spoilt or used up but the benefits far outweigh the downsides and anyone who cannot see that this is good for us in the short and long term must walk around with an economic blindfold on
Some people will however lose out but will be compensated. Not a perfect situation but its the price some unlucky ones pay for progress.
We should thank our lucky stars that the Government want to spend this type of money in a time of dire financial austerity as it will be a huge booost to jobs and our economy
I have no vested interest/ am not a Government employee etc by the way or work for Council or anything else connected. These are my views

meme wrote:
This is going to be benefit to the North in genral
The closer we are to London in travel hours the better
There will be hundreds, possibly thousands of construction jobs created plus the benefit to suoppliers and professionals.
There will be closer contact with the south which we need for business and tourism as they are rich and we are poor!
its a shame the line cannot run in the air/underground/on the sea etc so no land will be spoilt or used up but the benefits far outweigh the downsides and anyone who cannot see that this is good for us in the short and long term must walk around with an economic blindfold on
Some people will however lose out but will be compensated. Not a perfect situation but its the price some unlucky ones pay for progress.
We should thank our lucky stars that the Government want to spend this type of money in a time of dire financial austerity as it will be a huge booost to jobs and our economy
I have no vested interest/ am not a Government employee etc by the way or work for Council or anything else connected. These are my views

The last time we got closer in travel time to London, Our House prices soared

Meme says:
There will be hundreds, possibly thousands of construction jobs created plus the benefit to suppliers and professionals.
There will be closer contact with the south, which we need for business and tourism as they are rich and we are poor!
We should thank our lucky stars that the Government wants to spend this type of money in a time of dire financial austerity, as it will be a huge boost to jobs and our economy


Would this be also the case if we had a major investment to rebuild our old network and improve the bridges that once carried steam trains?
Spending this money will only benefit the minority that can afford to pay the expected inflated fare.
It will only really benefit people wishing to relocate from London that work in the City and can afford to commute.

I cannot see the benefits of this investment for the North, equally at all.

That’s if it ever happens which I very much doubt.

meme wrote:
This is going to be benefit to the North in genral
The closer we are to London in travel hours the better
There will be hundreds, possibly thousands of construction jobs created plus the benefit to suoppliers and professionals.
There will be closer contact with the south which we need for business and tourism as they are rich and we are poor!
its a shame the line cannot run in the air/underground/on the sea etc so no land will be spoilt or used up but the benefits far outweigh the downsides and anyone who cannot see that this is good for us in the short and long term must walk around with an economic blindfold on
Some people will however lose out but will be compensated. Not a perfect situation but its the price some unlucky ones pay for progress.
We should thank our lucky stars that the Government want to spend this type of money in a time of dire financial austerity as it will be a huge booost to jobs and our economy
I have no vested interest/ am not a Government employee etc by the way or work for Council or anything else connected. These are my views

'Benefit' is a great album by Jethro Tull. I shall make a point of playing it noisily on the iPhone 5 through my smart redesigned earpieces when the new spacetime-altering business-saving HS2 train of wonder rolls in, thus transforming us from a third world country with debt to a third world country with even more debt.

ReginaldBiscuit wrote:

meme wrote: This is going to be benefit to the North in genral The closer we are to London in travel hours the better There will be hundreds, possibly thousands of construction jobs created plus the benefit to suoppliers and professionals. There will be closer contact with the south which we need for business and tourism as they are rich and we are poor! its a shame the line cannot run in the air/underground/on the sea etc so no land will be spoilt or used up but the benefits far outweigh the downsides and anyone who cannot see that this is good for us in the short and long term must walk around with an economic blindfold on Some people will however lose out but will be compensated. Not a perfect situation but its the price some unlucky ones pay for progress. We should thank our lucky stars that the Government want to spend this type of money in a time of dire financial austerity as it will be a huge booost to jobs and our economy I have no vested interest/ am not a Government employee etc by the way or work for Council or anything else connected. These are my views

'Benefit' is a great album by Jethro Tull. I shall make a point of playing it noisily on the iPhone 5 through my smart redesigned earpieces when the new spacetime-altering business-saving HS2 train of wonder rolls in, thus transforming us from a third world country with debt to a third world country with even more debt.

LOL!! Priceless posting!!

I have many questions...

Can we buy shares in the project?

Is it a public expense that someone like Branson will profit from in the 2030s by picking up a superfast rail franchise that Joe Public paid for?

Is it at the expense of improving the road infrastructure? 'Cos a new East Coast motorway from Channel Tunnel to Ipswich, Norwich, Kings Lynn, Lincoln and over the Humber Bridge and up to Middlesborough would improve the lives of more people than a speeded up version of a current railway line.

This is a country where the motorway network runs out long before it gets this far North! Still it will provide jobs and contracts for those involved and get people working. People talk about London as if it is one small place - getting across town is at least another hour!

All this fuss about new high speed train.locals should come first .where are the new stations at Haxby and one at York hospital.get what was planned years ago done first.this will help local economy and stop a lot of unwanted cars coming into the city for people who work here.it will work as long as the ticket prices are lower than carpark fees.

peterstreet wrote:

DEKKA wrote:

bob the builder wrote:
... as if it will ever get built! The overspend and increasing costs will mean we will be lucky if it gets out of the Home Counties, let alone to the North which I'm not sure Whitehall could pinpoint on a map of England!

do you ever have anything positive to say about anything?

Course not, just a whining buffoon!

Whining buffoon, same old comment Councillor Alexander. Try and come up with something original, unlike your policies (or lack of them more like).

32 posts and about 25 of them whinging. What a bunch of short-sighted Luddites you are.

Love to have seen the equivalent when they proposed opening a railway station in York or building a chocolate factory. Bet you great great great great grandfathers wore their quills away moaning if the genetic legacy is anything to go by.

nick clogg wrote:

Paul Meoff wrote:
32 posts and about 25 of them whinging. What a bunch of short-sighted Luddites you are.

Love to have seen the equivalent when they proposed opening a railway station in York or building a chocolate factory. Bet you great great great great grandfathers wore their quills away moaning if the genetic legacy is anything to go by.

Another council stooge!!

What on earth has this got to do with the council. In the time frame I mentioned were your ancestors single celled.

Paul Meoff wrote:

nick clogg wrote:

Paul Meoff wrote:
32 posts and about 25 of them whinging. What a bunch of short-sighted Luddites you are.

Love to have seen the equivalent when they proposed opening a railway station in York or building a chocolate factory. Bet you great great great great grandfathers wore their quills away moaning if the genetic legacy is anything to go by.

Another council stooge!!

What on earth has this got to do with the council. In the time frame I mentioned were your ancestors single celled.

Keep up the waffle councillor

Not sure why anyone thinks I would want to get to London any faster.

Getting AWAY from London quicker? Now you're talking!

Is it at the expense of improving the road infrastructure? 'Cos a new East Coast motorway from Channel Tunnel to Ipswich, Norwich, Kings Lynn, Lincoln and over the Humber Bridge and up to Middlesborough would improve the lives of more people than a speeded up version of a current railway line.

+ about 500.

Love to have seen the equivalent when they proposed opening a railway station in York or building a chocolate factory.

Not one penny of taxpayers' money was spent on building either. George Hudson discovered this to his cost, when a mob of creditors came after him, who had discovered to their cost that his railway line hadn't delivered the pot of gold that he'd promised them. In one sense at least it would seem that history is about to repeat itself...

It could bring in money in the form of people who are living in York get jobs in London, and because it doesn't take too long to commute there the people would return to York every night and weekend and spend their earnings (which would be at the London living wage level) in York.


For the infastructure, any signalling cables used will be fibre-optic and so of no value to thieves. But I would hope there'd be measures taken to reduce/eliminate delays - such as not having any trees near the line so no leaves fall on it, and maybe even rails that are heated to +2 degrees C during snowfall so that snow doesn't settle on them and so a seperate plough isn't needed.

In terms of Jobs, how successful this will be depends on how levels of beaurocracy will have changed between now and when the building work starts up here. If the red tape has eveolved to downright stupid levels where you need a license to perform a risk assesment that then has to be stamped, signed in triplicate, stamped again by a license holder who himself had to have a risk assesment done before being allowed to use the rubber stamp, all in order to lift the toilet seat at the workplace - then there won't really be any employment benefits. But if it is seen that employing local people currently unemployed (and that's the important bit) is more important than a mountain of paperwork then we could see locals being trained and employed, which would bring big benefits.