Clearing the road

Clearing the road

Clearing the road

First published in Letters by

NICK Blitz commented (Letters September 2) in response to Christian Vassie’s ideas for trams in York that “there is not enough road space for existing car demand, yet Mr Vassie wants to superimpose trams”.

Perhaps this argument needs reversing.

Give tram operation artificial priority, and many residents will choose to leave their cars at home for many local journeys.

Manchester Metro uses a mixture of dedicated and shared road space, and in some cases links up outside the city centre with former Network Rail tracks eg to Bury and Altrincham. The system already handles more than 29 million journeys a year, with the potential to top 40 million after planned expansion.

York’s long-term choices are to either continue catering for those in the fast lane, or to invest sensibly in fast-lane solutions.

Paul Hepworth, Windmill Rise, York.

Comments (24)

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12:09pm Fri 5 Sep 14

sheps lad says...

Bear in mind Mr P, trams cannot swerve out of the way of errant cyclists!
Bear in mind Mr P, trams cannot swerve out of the way of errant cyclists! sheps lad
  • Score: 1

12:47pm Fri 5 Sep 14

/kev/null says...

This looks like it would be a very expensive project.

Do we have any statistics which suggest that more people would use a tram service over a bus service? Only we've already got a bus service and apparently it hasn't reduced car journeys enough.

If the solution really is trams, then can someone explain to my why the solution is trams and why buses aren't as good?
This looks like it would be a very expensive project. Do we have any statistics which suggest that more people would use a tram service over a bus service? Only we've already got a bus service and apparently it hasn't reduced car journeys enough. If the solution really is trams, then can someone explain to my why the solution is trams and why buses aren't as good? /kev/null
  • Score: 9

1:21pm Fri 5 Sep 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

sheps lad wrote:
Bear in mind Mr P, trams cannot swerve out of the way of errant cyclists!
Works ok in The Netherlands.
[quote][p][bold]sheps lad[/bold] wrote: Bear in mind Mr P, trams cannot swerve out of the way of errant cyclists![/p][/quote]Works ok in The Netherlands. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: -2

4:40pm Fri 5 Sep 14

Pinza-C55 says...

I'm working on a theory that the practicality of an idea is inversely proportional to Pedalling Paul's enthusiasm for it. So far my theory appears to be sound and I am thinking of putting it before the United Nations shortly.
I'm working on a theory that the practicality of an idea is inversely proportional to Pedalling Paul's enthusiasm for it. So far my theory appears to be sound and I am thinking of putting it before the United Nations shortly. Pinza-C55
  • Score: 4

5:20pm Fri 5 Sep 14

notpedallingpaul says...

So here we have Paul Hepworth aka pedalling paul now jumping on the tram bandwagon, how many years would it take to provide a tram system in York? how much would it cost? You only have to look at what happened to the Leeds tram proposal, is it running, no it's not.
The money would be better spent on upgrading the outer ring road i.e. The A1237, and sorting out the joke of a junction where it meets the A64, then you will get more traffic out of the city.
So here we have Paul Hepworth aka pedalling paul now jumping on the tram bandwagon, how many years would it take to provide a tram system in York? how much would it cost? You only have to look at what happened to the Leeds tram proposal, is it running, no it's not. The money would be better spent on upgrading the outer ring road i.e. The A1237, and sorting out the joke of a junction where it meets the A64, then you will get more traffic out of the city. notpedallingpaul
  • Score: -16

5:21pm Fri 5 Sep 14

notpedallingpaul says...

Pinza-C55 wrote:
I'm working on a theory that the practicality of an idea is inversely proportional to Pedalling Paul's enthusiasm for it. So far my theory appears to be sound and I am thinking of putting it before the United Nations shortly.
Priceless lol
[quote][p][bold]Pinza-C55[/bold] wrote: I'm working on a theory that the practicality of an idea is inversely proportional to Pedalling Paul's enthusiasm for it. So far my theory appears to be sound and I am thinking of putting it before the United Nations shortly.[/p][/quote]Priceless lol notpedallingpaul
  • Score: -17

5:35pm Fri 5 Sep 14

bolero says...

Buzzz Light-year wrote:
sheps lad wrote:
Bear in mind Mr P, trams cannot swerve out of the way of errant cyclists!
Works ok in The Netherlands.
I'm trying to picture the trams swerving about the roads dodging cyclists. Ding, ding.
[quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sheps lad[/bold] wrote: Bear in mind Mr P, trams cannot swerve out of the way of errant cyclists![/p][/quote]Works ok in The Netherlands.[/p][/quote]I'm trying to picture the trams swerving about the roads dodging cyclists. Ding, ding. bolero
  • Score: 6

6:06pm Fri 5 Sep 14

Paul Hepworth says...

Oh dear, the Editor edited my last line. It should have read ".. either continue catering for those in the fat lane or investing in fast lane solutions. "
Oh dear, the Editor edited my last line. It should have read ".. either continue catering for those in the fat lane or investing in fast lane solutions. " Paul Hepworth
  • Score: 13

6:11pm Fri 5 Sep 14

notpedallingpaul says...

Paul Hepworth wrote:
Oh dear, the Editor edited my last line. It should have read ".. either continue catering for those in the fat lane or investing in fast lane solutions. "
Paul, we all knew what you meant, it's just one of your well worn comments, nothing changes, exept now you have a new toy in your toy box to pull out and play with.
[quote][p][bold]Paul Hepworth[/bold] wrote: Oh dear, the Editor edited my last line. It should have read ".. either continue catering for those in the fat lane or investing in fast lane solutions. "[/p][/quote]Paul, we all knew what you meant, it's just one of your well worn comments, nothing changes, exept now you have a new toy in your toy box to pull out and play with. notpedallingpaul
  • Score: -13

7:38pm Fri 5 Sep 14

strangebuttrue? says...

Paul you know, as we all do, that there is plenty of space on York's Roads to cope with demand from private cars it is just that the council has decided that cars cannot use the majority of it, especially for through journeys. This scheme would just be a another excuse for the council to limit that road space even further to those residents who choose to travel by car.
Paul you know, as we all do, that there is plenty of space on York's Roads to cope with demand from private cars it is just that the council has decided that cars cannot use the majority of it, especially for through journeys. This scheme would just be a another excuse for the council to limit that road space even further to those residents who choose to travel by car. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -11

1:23am Sat 6 Sep 14

KevinWard59 says...

Well Peeing Paul, very few people give something to laugh or smile about but you had me rolling about in hysterics with this comment.

"Give Trams Artificial Priority and many residents will choose to leave their cars at home for many local journeys"

Is this in the same way you wrote when the Poppleton Bar Park and Ride went into service that you would drive out to Poppleton Bar with your fold up pedal cycle and take the Park and Ride into York - instead of choosing to leaving your car at home and walking 200 metres to the end of your street to use this marvelous, wonderfull, mega effective York resident car usage reduction scheme?!?

The Park and Ride gives an excellent insight as to the kind of effect a tram will have. Of course it must serve York's main visitor attraction:- Holgate Windmill from a stop with four different names to confuse its location. For local bus services its called Windmill Rise but its actually located at the end of St Swithin's Walk. For the Poppletpn Bar Park and Ride No.59 service its called Holgate Park but the sign at the entrance to the business park calls it Gateway Business Park - confused? Let's pretend you're a visitor with mapping in a smart phone or a SAT NAV (they won't fit all four names on the cycle route map given at the Park and Ride site which I don't beleive shows Holgate Windmill. Never mind you'll see the posters on the trees and fences as your No.59 drives past the stop and you can't get off until Poppleton Bar.

I'm not usually so humerous, I just picked it up from a passenger on the No.10. So interesting and relevant were his comments that I passed my stop and so had to go to Nether Poppleton and back on the last bus.

He was telling me that "due to re-marriage he had 7 children and now 17 grown up grandchildren, all with jobs and their own car, bar one. They all visit regularly, usually on a Sunday but non of them can ever consider using the Park and Ride No.59".

"Why's that?" I asked unthinkingly and rather stupidly (must have been tired to be so slow on the uptake).

"I live on Langholme Drive and it's over three quarters of a mile to the stop for the famous Holgate Windmill" he said.

"Also no service buses stop at the Park and Ride Site, nor even pass near on a Sunday especially". he continued, "If they went into York and caught a service bus back out the frequency is 75 minutes and doesn't start until 10:16 in the morning".

"The Park and Ride definitely doesn't reduce visitors coming into York." He said "Our friends on Wheatlands Grove, The Paddock and Shirley Avenue all have family who visit regularly too and have the same problem". He continued, "It was obviously devised by someone with severe myopia who couldn't grasp that all visitors to York don't come regularly to see York Minster, The Castle Museum or The National Railway Museum" He emphasised the word National and said "People only go there once every 10 years or more, especially if they're from overseas" and continued "so the Park and Ride only serves a minority".

"My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted.

"With so many thousand residents in York, we can't be the only ones with family or friends visiting who are all in the same boat".

Now there;s a reality, I thought.

Only a good logistician who understands family and societies needs would think to plan for that probable majority of visitors to York.

All those shopping trips would also apply to everyone either side of these Park and Ride routes and funnily enough most of them wear clothes and eat food that they must shop for on their days off - which reminds that many probably go to work in York Centre too.
Well Peeing Paul, very few people give something to laugh or smile about but you had me rolling about in hysterics with this comment. "Give Trams Artificial Priority and many residents will choose to leave their cars at home for many local journeys" Is this in the same way you wrote when the Poppleton Bar Park and Ride went into service that you would drive out to Poppleton Bar with your fold up pedal cycle and take the Park and Ride into York - instead of choosing to leaving your car at home and walking 200 metres to the end of your street to use this marvelous, wonderfull, mega effective York resident car usage reduction scheme?!? The Park and Ride gives an excellent insight as to the kind of effect a tram will have. Of course it must serve York's main visitor attraction:- Holgate Windmill from a stop with four different names to confuse its location. For local bus services its called Windmill Rise but its actually located at the end of St Swithin's Walk. For the Poppletpn Bar Park and Ride No.59 service its called Holgate Park but the sign at the entrance to the business park calls it Gateway Business Park - confused? Let's pretend you're a visitor with mapping in a smart phone or a SAT NAV (they won't fit all four names on the cycle route map given at the Park and Ride site which I don't beleive shows Holgate Windmill. Never mind you'll see the posters on the trees and fences as your No.59 drives past the stop and you can't get off until Poppleton Bar. I'm not usually so humerous, I just picked it up from a passenger on the No.10. So interesting and relevant were his comments that I passed my stop and so had to go to Nether Poppleton and back on the last bus. He was telling me that "due to re-marriage he had 7 children and now 17 grown up grandchildren, all with jobs and their own car, bar one. They all visit regularly, usually on a Sunday but non of them can ever consider using the Park and Ride No.59". "Why's that?" I asked unthinkingly and rather stupidly (must have been tired to be so slow on the uptake). "I live on Langholme Drive and it's over three quarters of a mile to the stop for the famous Holgate Windmill" he said. "Also no service buses stop at the Park and Ride Site, nor even pass near on a Sunday especially". he continued, "If they went into York and caught a service bus back out the frequency is 75 minutes and doesn't start until 10:16 in the morning". "The Park and Ride definitely doesn't reduce visitors coming into York." He said "Our friends on Wheatlands Grove, The Paddock and Shirley Avenue all have family who visit regularly too and have the same problem". He continued, "It was obviously devised by someone with severe myopia who couldn't grasp that all visitors to York don't come regularly to see York Minster, The Castle Museum or The National Railway Museum" He emphasised the word National and said "People only go there once every 10 years or more, especially if they're from overseas" and continued "so the Park and Ride only serves a minority". "My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted. "With so many thousand residents in York, we can't be the only ones with family or friends visiting who are all in the same boat". Now there;s a reality, I thought. Only a good logistician who understands family and societies needs would think to plan for that probable majority of visitors to York. All those shopping trips would also apply to everyone either side of these Park and Ride routes and funnily enough most of them wear clothes and eat food that they must shop for on their days off - which reminds that many probably go to work in York Centre too. KevinWard59
  • Score: -23

3:53am Sat 6 Sep 14

Magicman! says...

/kev/null wrote:
This looks like it would be a very expensive project.

Do we have any statistics which suggest that more people would use a tram service over a bus service? Only we've already got a bus service and apparently it hasn't reduced car journeys enough.

If the solution really is trams, then can someone explain to my why the solution is trams and why buses aren't as good?
If you are willing to search for them, you will find out the figures for tram versus bus on the same route - you only have to look at places where a tram route runs along he exact same route as a bus service... you can look for figures in areas such as Blackpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham, Birmingham, and Croydon.

A bus that still runs on the same roads as private vehicles, still has to wait at red traffic lights, and still gets caught up in the same congestion at Green Dykes Lane, Lawrence Street, Kent Street, Fishergate, Fulford Road, Gillygate, Clarence Street, Lord Mayors Walk, Foss Islands Road, Bootham, Water End (yes that still gets congested!), Leeman Road, Nunnery Lane, Skeldergate Bridge, Lendal Bridge, Holgate, Station Road, and Blossom Street as any other vehicle on rubber wheels gets caught in... which itself also leads to buses 'bunching' in two's and three's.

When you put up wires and put down rails, people have an increased confidence in that mode of transport... a tram can't diverge away from its route because the driver wants to go on break; a tram can't just turn around partway through a journey unscheduled; a tram can't skip out stops or take a short cut to skip an entire area because it's running a couple of minutes late. People will stand at the tram stop, and they KNOW a tram will come. Also, tram stops are generally more well-appointed than bus stops.
[quote][p][bold]/kev/null[/bold] wrote: This looks like it would be a very expensive project. Do we have any statistics which suggest that more people would use a tram service over a bus service? Only we've already got a bus service and apparently it hasn't reduced car journeys enough. If the solution really is trams, then can someone explain to my why the solution is trams and why buses aren't as good?[/p][/quote]If you are willing to search for them, you will find out the figures for tram versus bus on the same route - you only have to look at places where a tram route runs along he exact same route as a bus service... you can look for figures in areas such as Blackpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham, Birmingham, and Croydon. A bus that still runs on the same roads as private vehicles, still has to wait at red traffic lights, and still gets caught up in the same congestion at Green Dykes Lane, Lawrence Street, Kent Street, Fishergate, Fulford Road, Gillygate, Clarence Street, Lord Mayors Walk, Foss Islands Road, Bootham, Water End (yes that still gets congested!), Leeman Road, Nunnery Lane, Skeldergate Bridge, Lendal Bridge, Holgate, Station Road, and Blossom Street as any other vehicle on rubber wheels gets caught in... which itself also leads to buses 'bunching' in two's and three's. When you put up wires and put down rails, people have an increased confidence in that mode of transport... a tram can't diverge away from its route because the driver wants to go on break; a tram can't just turn around partway through a journey unscheduled; a tram can't skip out stops or take a short cut to skip an entire area because it's running a couple of minutes late. People will stand at the tram stop, and they KNOW a tram will come. Also, tram stops are generally more well-appointed than bus stops. Magicman!
  • Score: 5

3:57am Sat 6 Sep 14

Magicman! says...

notpedallingpaul wrote:
So here we have Paul Hepworth aka pedalling paul now jumping on the tram bandwagon, how many years would it take to provide a tram system in York? how much would it cost? You only have to look at what happened to the Leeds tram proposal, is it running, no it's not.
The money would be better spent on upgrading the outer ring road i.e. The A1237, and sorting out the joke of a junction where it meets the A64, then you will get more traffic out of the city.
The Leeds tram system is not running because it would have competed against a major international bus company's most profitable routes in Leeds... a bus company that is controlled from scotland; and at the time the transport minister, Alistair Darling, was also Scottish... both the bus company and the transport minister had a closed-doors meeting, and a suspiciously short while after the meeting all tram funding was cancelled.

Costings, effectiveness, the buisness case, and quality for passengers had nothing to do with it - it all came down to dirty politics and backroom deals.
[quote][p][bold]notpedallingpaul[/bold] wrote: So here we have Paul Hepworth aka pedalling paul now jumping on the tram bandwagon, how many years would it take to provide a tram system in York? how much would it cost? You only have to look at what happened to the Leeds tram proposal, is it running, no it's not. The money would be better spent on upgrading the outer ring road i.e. The A1237, and sorting out the joke of a junction where it meets the A64, then you will get more traffic out of the city.[/p][/quote]The Leeds tram system is not running because it would have competed against a major international bus company's most profitable routes in Leeds... a bus company that is controlled from scotland; and at the time the transport minister, Alistair Darling, was also Scottish... both the bus company and the transport minister had a closed-doors meeting, and a suspiciously short while after the meeting all tram funding was cancelled. Costings, effectiveness, the buisness case, and quality for passengers had nothing to do with it - it all came down to dirty politics and backroom deals. Magicman!
  • Score: 5

4:05am Sat 6 Sep 14

Magicman! says...

KevinWard59 wrote:
Well Peeing Paul, very few people give something to laugh or smile about but you had me rolling about in hysterics with this comment.

"Give Trams Artificial Priority and many residents will choose to leave their cars at home for many local journeys"

Is this in the same way you wrote when the Poppleton Bar Park and Ride went into service that you would drive out to Poppleton Bar with your fold up pedal cycle and take the Park and Ride into York - instead of choosing to leaving your car at home and walking 200 metres to the end of your street to use this marvelous, wonderfull, mega effective York resident car usage reduction scheme?!?

The Park and Ride gives an excellent insight as to the kind of effect a tram will have. Of course it must serve York's main visitor attraction:- Holgate Windmill from a stop with four different names to confuse its location. For local bus services its called Windmill Rise but its actually located at the end of St Swithin's Walk. For the Poppletpn Bar Park and Ride No.59 service its called Holgate Park but the sign at the entrance to the business park calls it Gateway Business Park - confused? Let's pretend you're a visitor with mapping in a smart phone or a SAT NAV (they won't fit all four names on the cycle route map given at the Park and Ride site which I don't beleive shows Holgate Windmill. Never mind you'll see the posters on the trees and fences as your No.59 drives past the stop and you can't get off until Poppleton Bar.

I'm not usually so humerous, I just picked it up from a passenger on the No.10. So interesting and relevant were his comments that I passed my stop and so had to go to Nether Poppleton and back on the last bus.

He was telling me that "due to re-marriage he had 7 children and now 17 grown up grandchildren, all with jobs and their own car, bar one. They all visit regularly, usually on a Sunday but non of them can ever consider using the Park and Ride No.59".

"Why's that?" I asked unthinkingly and rather stupidly (must have been tired to be so slow on the uptake).

"I live on Langholme Drive and it's over three quarters of a mile to the stop for the famous Holgate Windmill" he said.

"Also no service buses stop at the Park and Ride Site, nor even pass near on a Sunday especially". he continued, "If they went into York and caught a service bus back out the frequency is 75 minutes and doesn't start until 10:16 in the morning".

"The Park and Ride definitely doesn't reduce visitors coming into York." He said "Our friends on Wheatlands Grove, The Paddock and Shirley Avenue all have family who visit regularly too and have the same problem". He continued, "It was obviously devised by someone with severe myopia who couldn't grasp that all visitors to York don't come regularly to see York Minster, The Castle Museum or The National Railway Museum" He emphasised the word National and said "People only go there once every 10 years or more, especially if they're from overseas" and continued "so the Park and Ride only serves a minority".

"My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted.

"With so many thousand residents in York, we can't be the only ones with family or friends visiting who are all in the same boat".

Now there;s a reality, I thought.

Only a good logistician who understands family and societies needs would think to plan for that probable majority of visitors to York.

All those shopping trips would also apply to everyone either side of these Park and Ride routes and funnily enough most of them wear clothes and eat food that they must shop for on their days off - which reminds that many probably go to work in York Centre too.
"My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted.

... errrm, the 9, the 12 and the 59 ALL serve stops on Rougier Street (the 59 towards Poppleton stops on Station Road just behind the stop for the number 5).

Combine this and the fact that said grandchildren refused to use the 59 because it's a 3/4 mile wak from the bus stop to the house, would suggest that what you have in your family is a bunch of people most likely completely immersed by their iPhones so much so they have literally no knoweledge of the outside world to the point they can't even work out that a bus service stops at the same place as the other bus service they'd use, and that they're too lazy to walk.

No wonder York's getting choked up with cars if this is the mentality of those driving them! If you're not going to use your legs, then have a hospital amputate them so that a wounded soldier can use them instead, somebody who would be GRATEFUL for having working legs... you can have cars adapted to be controlled by hands-only.
[quote][p][bold]KevinWard59[/bold] wrote: Well Peeing Paul, very few people give something to laugh or smile about but you had me rolling about in hysterics with this comment. "Give Trams Artificial Priority and many residents will choose to leave their cars at home for many local journeys" Is this in the same way you wrote when the Poppleton Bar Park and Ride went into service that you would drive out to Poppleton Bar with your fold up pedal cycle and take the Park and Ride into York - instead of choosing to leaving your car at home and walking 200 metres to the end of your street to use this marvelous, wonderfull, mega effective York resident car usage reduction scheme?!? The Park and Ride gives an excellent insight as to the kind of effect a tram will have. Of course it must serve York's main visitor attraction:- Holgate Windmill from a stop with four different names to confuse its location. For local bus services its called Windmill Rise but its actually located at the end of St Swithin's Walk. For the Poppletpn Bar Park and Ride No.59 service its called Holgate Park but the sign at the entrance to the business park calls it Gateway Business Park - confused? Let's pretend you're a visitor with mapping in a smart phone or a SAT NAV (they won't fit all four names on the cycle route map given at the Park and Ride site which I don't beleive shows Holgate Windmill. Never mind you'll see the posters on the trees and fences as your No.59 drives past the stop and you can't get off until Poppleton Bar. I'm not usually so humerous, I just picked it up from a passenger on the No.10. So interesting and relevant were his comments that I passed my stop and so had to go to Nether Poppleton and back on the last bus. He was telling me that "due to re-marriage he had 7 children and now 17 grown up grandchildren, all with jobs and their own car, bar one. They all visit regularly, usually on a Sunday but non of them can ever consider using the Park and Ride No.59". "Why's that?" I asked unthinkingly and rather stupidly (must have been tired to be so slow on the uptake). "I live on Langholme Drive and it's over three quarters of a mile to the stop for the famous Holgate Windmill" he said. "Also no service buses stop at the Park and Ride Site, nor even pass near on a Sunday especially". he continued, "If they went into York and caught a service bus back out the frequency is 75 minutes and doesn't start until 10:16 in the morning". "The Park and Ride definitely doesn't reduce visitors coming into York." He said "Our friends on Wheatlands Grove, The Paddock and Shirley Avenue all have family who visit regularly too and have the same problem". He continued, "It was obviously devised by someone with severe myopia who couldn't grasp that all visitors to York don't come regularly to see York Minster, The Castle Museum or The National Railway Museum" He emphasised the word National and said "People only go there once every 10 years or more, especially if they're from overseas" and continued "so the Park and Ride only serves a minority". "My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted. "With so many thousand residents in York, we can't be the only ones with family or friends visiting who are all in the same boat". Now there;s a reality, I thought. Only a good logistician who understands family and societies needs would think to plan for that probable majority of visitors to York. All those shopping trips would also apply to everyone either side of these Park and Ride routes and funnily enough most of them wear clothes and eat food that they must shop for on their days off - which reminds that many probably go to work in York Centre too.[/p][/quote]"My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted. ... errrm, the 9, the 12 and the 59 ALL serve stops on Rougier Street (the 59 towards Poppleton stops on Station Road just behind the stop for the number 5). Combine this and the fact that said grandchildren refused to use the 59 because it's a 3/4 mile wak from the bus stop to the house, would suggest that what you have in your family is a bunch of people most likely completely immersed by their iPhones so much so they have literally no knoweledge of the outside world to the point they can't even work out that a bus service stops at the same place as the other bus service they'd use, and that they're too lazy to walk. No wonder York's getting choked up with cars if this is the mentality of those driving them! If you're not going to use your legs, then have a hospital amputate them so that a wounded soldier can use them instead, somebody who would be GRATEFUL for having working legs... you can have cars adapted to be controlled by hands-only. Magicman!
  • Score: 4

5:20am Sat 6 Sep 14

KevinWard59 says...

Magicman! wrote:
KevinWard59 wrote:
Well Peeing Paul, very few people give something to laugh or smile about but you had me rolling about in hysterics with this comment.

"Give Trams Artificial Priority and many residents will choose to leave their cars at home for many local journeys"

Is this in the same way you wrote when the Poppleton Bar Park and Ride went into service that you would drive out to Poppleton Bar with your fold up pedal cycle and take the Park and Ride into York - instead of choosing to leaving your car at home and walking 200 metres to the end of your street to use this marvelous, wonderfull, mega effective York resident car usage reduction scheme?!?

The Park and Ride gives an excellent insight as to the kind of effect a tram will have. Of course it must serve York's main visitor attraction:- Holgate Windmill from a stop with four different names to confuse its location. For local bus services its called Windmill Rise but its actually located at the end of St Swithin's Walk. For the Poppletpn Bar Park and Ride No.59 service its called Holgate Park but the sign at the entrance to the business park calls it Gateway Business Park - confused? Let's pretend you're a visitor with mapping in a smart phone or a SAT NAV (they won't fit all four names on the cycle route map given at the Park and Ride site which I don't beleive shows Holgate Windmill. Never mind you'll see the posters on the trees and fences as your No.59 drives past the stop and you can't get off until Poppleton Bar.

I'm not usually so humerous, I just picked it up from a passenger on the No.10. So interesting and relevant were his comments that I passed my stop and so had to go to Nether Poppleton and back on the last bus.

He was telling me that "due to re-marriage he had 7 children and now 17 grown up grandchildren, all with jobs and their own car, bar one. They all visit regularly, usually on a Sunday but non of them can ever consider using the Park and Ride No.59".

"Why's that?" I asked unthinkingly and rather stupidly (must have been tired to be so slow on the uptake).

"I live on Langholme Drive and it's over three quarters of a mile to the stop for the famous Holgate Windmill" he said.

"Also no service buses stop at the Park and Ride Site, nor even pass near on a Sunday especially". he continued, "If they went into York and caught a service bus back out the frequency is 75 minutes and doesn't start until 10:16 in the morning".

"The Park and Ride definitely doesn't reduce visitors coming into York." He said "Our friends on Wheatlands Grove, The Paddock and Shirley Avenue all have family who visit regularly too and have the same problem". He continued, "It was obviously devised by someone with severe myopia who couldn't grasp that all visitors to York don't come regularly to see York Minster, The Castle Museum or The National Railway Museum" He emphasised the word National and said "People only go there once every 10 years or more, especially if they're from overseas" and continued "so the Park and Ride only serves a minority".

"My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted.

"With so many thousand residents in York, we can't be the only ones with family or friends visiting who are all in the same boat".

Now there;s a reality, I thought.

Only a good logistician who understands family and societies needs would think to plan for that probable majority of visitors to York.

All those shopping trips would also apply to everyone either side of these Park and Ride routes and funnily enough most of them wear clothes and eat food that they must shop for on their days off - which reminds that many probably go to work in York Centre too.
"My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted.

... errrm, the 9, the 12 and the 59 ALL serve stops on Rougier Street (the 59 towards Poppleton stops on Station Road just behind the stop for the number 5).

Combine this and the fact that said grandchildren refused to use the 59 because it's a 3/4 mile wak from the bus stop to the house, would suggest that what you have in your family is a bunch of people most likely completely immersed by their iPhones so much so they have literally no knoweledge of the outside world to the point they can't even work out that a bus service stops at the same place as the other bus service they'd use, and that they're too lazy to walk.

No wonder York's getting choked up with cars if this is the mentality of those driving them! If you're not going to use your legs, then have a hospital amputate them so that a wounded soldier can use them instead, somebody who would be GRATEFUL for having working legs... you can have cars adapted to be controlled by hands-only.
Shame you didn't read the story or understand that quotation marks were quotes what the man said.

I can't explain for someone else - possibly everyone else.

By the way - my legs don't work very well so thanks for the insult.
[quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KevinWard59[/bold] wrote: Well Peeing Paul, very few people give something to laugh or smile about but you had me rolling about in hysterics with this comment. "Give Trams Artificial Priority and many residents will choose to leave their cars at home for many local journeys" Is this in the same way you wrote when the Poppleton Bar Park and Ride went into service that you would drive out to Poppleton Bar with your fold up pedal cycle and take the Park and Ride into York - instead of choosing to leaving your car at home and walking 200 metres to the end of your street to use this marvelous, wonderfull, mega effective York resident car usage reduction scheme?!? The Park and Ride gives an excellent insight as to the kind of effect a tram will have. Of course it must serve York's main visitor attraction:- Holgate Windmill from a stop with four different names to confuse its location. For local bus services its called Windmill Rise but its actually located at the end of St Swithin's Walk. For the Poppletpn Bar Park and Ride No.59 service its called Holgate Park but the sign at the entrance to the business park calls it Gateway Business Park - confused? Let's pretend you're a visitor with mapping in a smart phone or a SAT NAV (they won't fit all four names on the cycle route map given at the Park and Ride site which I don't beleive shows Holgate Windmill. Never mind you'll see the posters on the trees and fences as your No.59 drives past the stop and you can't get off until Poppleton Bar. I'm not usually so humerous, I just picked it up from a passenger on the No.10. So interesting and relevant were his comments that I passed my stop and so had to go to Nether Poppleton and back on the last bus. He was telling me that "due to re-marriage he had 7 children and now 17 grown up grandchildren, all with jobs and their own car, bar one. They all visit regularly, usually on a Sunday but non of them can ever consider using the Park and Ride No.59". "Why's that?" I asked unthinkingly and rather stupidly (must have been tired to be so slow on the uptake). "I live on Langholme Drive and it's over three quarters of a mile to the stop for the famous Holgate Windmill" he said. "Also no service buses stop at the Park and Ride Site, nor even pass near on a Sunday especially". he continued, "If they went into York and caught a service bus back out the frequency is 75 minutes and doesn't start until 10:16 in the morning". "The Park and Ride definitely doesn't reduce visitors coming into York." He said "Our friends on Wheatlands Grove, The Paddock and Shirley Avenue all have family who visit regularly too and have the same problem". He continued, "It was obviously devised by someone with severe myopia who couldn't grasp that all visitors to York don't come regularly to see York Minster, The Castle Museum or The National Railway Museum" He emphasised the word National and said "People only go there once every 10 years or more, especially if they're from overseas" and continued "so the Park and Ride only serves a minority". "My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted. "With so many thousand residents in York, we can't be the only ones with family or friends visiting who are all in the same boat". Now there;s a reality, I thought. Only a good logistician who understands family and societies needs would think to plan for that probable majority of visitors to York. All those shopping trips would also apply to everyone either side of these Park and Ride routes and funnily enough most of them wear clothes and eat food that they must shop for on their days off - which reminds that many probably go to work in York Centre too.[/p][/quote]"My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted. ... errrm, the 9, the 12 and the 59 ALL serve stops on Rougier Street (the 59 towards Poppleton stops on Station Road just behind the stop for the number 5). Combine this and the fact that said grandchildren refused to use the 59 because it's a 3/4 mile wak from the bus stop to the house, would suggest that what you have in your family is a bunch of people most likely completely immersed by their iPhones so much so they have literally no knoweledge of the outside world to the point they can't even work out that a bus service stops at the same place as the other bus service they'd use, and that they're too lazy to walk. No wonder York's getting choked up with cars if this is the mentality of those driving them! If you're not going to use your legs, then have a hospital amputate them so that a wounded soldier can use them instead, somebody who would be GRATEFUL for having working legs... you can have cars adapted to be controlled by hands-only.[/p][/quote]Shame you didn't read the story or understand that quotation marks were quotes what the man said. I can't explain for someone else - possibly everyone else. By the way - my legs don't work very well so thanks for the insult. KevinWard59
  • Score: -43

5:20am Sat 6 Sep 14

KevinWard59 says...

Magicman! wrote:
KevinWard59 wrote:
Well Peeing Paul, very few people give something to laugh or smile about but you had me rolling about in hysterics with this comment.

"Give Trams Artificial Priority and many residents will choose to leave their cars at home for many local journeys"

Is this in the same way you wrote when the Poppleton Bar Park and Ride went into service that you would drive out to Poppleton Bar with your fold up pedal cycle and take the Park and Ride into York - instead of choosing to leaving your car at home and walking 200 metres to the end of your street to use this marvelous, wonderfull, mega effective York resident car usage reduction scheme?!?

The Park and Ride gives an excellent insight as to the kind of effect a tram will have. Of course it must serve York's main visitor attraction:- Holgate Windmill from a stop with four different names to confuse its location. For local bus services its called Windmill Rise but its actually located at the end of St Swithin's Walk. For the Poppletpn Bar Park and Ride No.59 service its called Holgate Park but the sign at the entrance to the business park calls it Gateway Business Park - confused? Let's pretend you're a visitor with mapping in a smart phone or a SAT NAV (they won't fit all four names on the cycle route map given at the Park and Ride site which I don't beleive shows Holgate Windmill. Never mind you'll see the posters on the trees and fences as your No.59 drives past the stop and you can't get off until Poppleton Bar.

I'm not usually so humerous, I just picked it up from a passenger on the No.10. So interesting and relevant were his comments that I passed my stop and so had to go to Nether Poppleton and back on the last bus.

He was telling me that "due to re-marriage he had 7 children and now 17 grown up grandchildren, all with jobs and their own car, bar one. They all visit regularly, usually on a Sunday but non of them can ever consider using the Park and Ride No.59".

"Why's that?" I asked unthinkingly and rather stupidly (must have been tired to be so slow on the uptake).

"I live on Langholme Drive and it's over three quarters of a mile to the stop for the famous Holgate Windmill" he said.

"Also no service buses stop at the Park and Ride Site, nor even pass near on a Sunday especially". he continued, "If they went into York and caught a service bus back out the frequency is 75 minutes and doesn't start until 10:16 in the morning".

"The Park and Ride definitely doesn't reduce visitors coming into York." He said "Our friends on Wheatlands Grove, The Paddock and Shirley Avenue all have family who visit regularly too and have the same problem". He continued, "It was obviously devised by someone with severe myopia who couldn't grasp that all visitors to York don't come regularly to see York Minster, The Castle Museum or The National Railway Museum" He emphasised the word National and said "People only go there once every 10 years or more, especially if they're from overseas" and continued "so the Park and Ride only serves a minority".

"My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted.

"With so many thousand residents in York, we can't be the only ones with family or friends visiting who are all in the same boat".

Now there;s a reality, I thought.

Only a good logistician who understands family and societies needs would think to plan for that probable majority of visitors to York.

All those shopping trips would also apply to everyone either side of these Park and Ride routes and funnily enough most of them wear clothes and eat food that they must shop for on their days off - which reminds that many probably go to work in York Centre too.
"My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted.

... errrm, the 9, the 12 and the 59 ALL serve stops on Rougier Street (the 59 towards Poppleton stops on Station Road just behind the stop for the number 5).

Combine this and the fact that said grandchildren refused to use the 59 because it's a 3/4 mile wak from the bus stop to the house, would suggest that what you have in your family is a bunch of people most likely completely immersed by their iPhones so much so they have literally no knoweledge of the outside world to the point they can't even work out that a bus service stops at the same place as the other bus service they'd use, and that they're too lazy to walk.

No wonder York's getting choked up with cars if this is the mentality of those driving them! If you're not going to use your legs, then have a hospital amputate them so that a wounded soldier can use them instead, somebody who would be GRATEFUL for having working legs... you can have cars adapted to be controlled by hands-only.
Shame you didn't read the story or understand that quotation marks were quotes what the man said.

I can't explain for someone else - possibly everyone else.

By the way - my legs don't work very well so thanks for the insult.
[quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KevinWard59[/bold] wrote: Well Peeing Paul, very few people give something to laugh or smile about but you had me rolling about in hysterics with this comment. "Give Trams Artificial Priority and many residents will choose to leave their cars at home for many local journeys" Is this in the same way you wrote when the Poppleton Bar Park and Ride went into service that you would drive out to Poppleton Bar with your fold up pedal cycle and take the Park and Ride into York - instead of choosing to leaving your car at home and walking 200 metres to the end of your street to use this marvelous, wonderfull, mega effective York resident car usage reduction scheme?!? The Park and Ride gives an excellent insight as to the kind of effect a tram will have. Of course it must serve York's main visitor attraction:- Holgate Windmill from a stop with four different names to confuse its location. For local bus services its called Windmill Rise but its actually located at the end of St Swithin's Walk. For the Poppletpn Bar Park and Ride No.59 service its called Holgate Park but the sign at the entrance to the business park calls it Gateway Business Park - confused? Let's pretend you're a visitor with mapping in a smart phone or a SAT NAV (they won't fit all four names on the cycle route map given at the Park and Ride site which I don't beleive shows Holgate Windmill. Never mind you'll see the posters on the trees and fences as your No.59 drives past the stop and you can't get off until Poppleton Bar. I'm not usually so humerous, I just picked it up from a passenger on the No.10. So interesting and relevant were his comments that I passed my stop and so had to go to Nether Poppleton and back on the last bus. He was telling me that "due to re-marriage he had 7 children and now 17 grown up grandchildren, all with jobs and their own car, bar one. They all visit regularly, usually on a Sunday but non of them can ever consider using the Park and Ride No.59". "Why's that?" I asked unthinkingly and rather stupidly (must have been tired to be so slow on the uptake). "I live on Langholme Drive and it's over three quarters of a mile to the stop for the famous Holgate Windmill" he said. "Also no service buses stop at the Park and Ride Site, nor even pass near on a Sunday especially". he continued, "If they went into York and caught a service bus back out the frequency is 75 minutes and doesn't start until 10:16 in the morning". "The Park and Ride definitely doesn't reduce visitors coming into York." He said "Our friends on Wheatlands Grove, The Paddock and Shirley Avenue all have family who visit regularly too and have the same problem". He continued, "It was obviously devised by someone with severe myopia who couldn't grasp that all visitors to York don't come regularly to see York Minster, The Castle Museum or The National Railway Museum" He emphasised the word National and said "People only go there once every 10 years or more, especially if they're from overseas" and continued "so the Park and Ride only serves a minority". "My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted. "With so many thousand residents in York, we can't be the only ones with family or friends visiting who are all in the same boat". Now there;s a reality, I thought. Only a good logistician who understands family and societies needs would think to plan for that probable majority of visitors to York. All those shopping trips would also apply to everyone either side of these Park and Ride routes and funnily enough most of them wear clothes and eat food that they must shop for on their days off - which reminds that many probably go to work in York Centre too.[/p][/quote]"My granddaughters wanted to see and spend money on designer clothes at the new Vanguard Shopping Complex but you can't get there and back easily by bus and have to walk a considerable distance between the terminus's and boarding points in the City Centre so they have to take their cars - they couldn't even enjoy a drink with the rest of us when they were staying over for the night and therefore not driving home the same evening!" He retorted. ... errrm, the 9, the 12 and the 59 ALL serve stops on Rougier Street (the 59 towards Poppleton stops on Station Road just behind the stop for the number 5). Combine this and the fact that said grandchildren refused to use the 59 because it's a 3/4 mile wak from the bus stop to the house, would suggest that what you have in your family is a bunch of people most likely completely immersed by their iPhones so much so they have literally no knoweledge of the outside world to the point they can't even work out that a bus service stops at the same place as the other bus service they'd use, and that they're too lazy to walk. No wonder York's getting choked up with cars if this is the mentality of those driving them! If you're not going to use your legs, then have a hospital amputate them so that a wounded soldier can use them instead, somebody who would be GRATEFUL for having working legs... you can have cars adapted to be controlled by hands-only.[/p][/quote]Shame you didn't read the story or understand that quotation marks were quotes what the man said. I can't explain for someone else - possibly everyone else. By the way - my legs don't work very well so thanks for the insult. KevinWard59
  • Score: -55

5:33am Sat 6 Sep 14

KevinWard59 says...

I think Magicman! has a poor sense of direction.

The Station Rise stop is for the No.59 headed to Poppleton Bar NOT Vanguard Shopping Centre.

I understood that before that the chap was referring to when his family visit, if they left their cars at Poppleton Bar on a a Sunday they would have to walk back from Gateway Park to Langholme Drive and then all the way back to Gateway Park to retrace where they'd walked to go back to Poppleton Bar.

I understood very clearly the point that only a percentage of people visiting York are going to see the Minster. He was saying that probably a large number are coming to see family.

Perhaps you may wish to provide taxis to and from Gateway Park or maybe Piggy Backs.

You could also ask if you can put posters up on the Park and Ride a Busses saying walk almost a mile each way to use the Park and Ride Service or ask for your legs to be cut off???.

Maybe it could be included in the fare???
I think Magicman! has a poor sense of direction. The Station Rise stop is for the No.59 headed to Poppleton Bar NOT Vanguard Shopping Centre. I understood that before that the chap was referring to when his family visit, if they left their cars at Poppleton Bar on a a Sunday they would have to walk back from Gateway Park to Langholme Drive and then all the way back to Gateway Park to retrace where they'd walked to go back to Poppleton Bar. I understood very clearly the point that only a percentage of people visiting York are going to see the Minster. He was saying that probably a large number are coming to see family. Perhaps you may wish to provide taxis to and from Gateway Park or maybe Piggy Backs. You could also ask if you can put posters up on the Park and Ride a Busses saying walk almost a mile each way to use the Park and Ride Service or ask for your legs to be cut off???. Maybe it could be included in the fare??? KevinWard59
  • Score: -78

7:25am Sat 6 Sep 14

notpedallingpaul says...

Magicman! wrote:
notpedallingpaul wrote:
So here we have Paul Hepworth aka pedalling paul now jumping on the tram bandwagon, how many years would it take to provide a tram system in York? how much would it cost? You only have to look at what happened to the Leeds tram proposal, is it running, no it's not.
The money would be better spent on upgrading the outer ring road i.e. The A1237, and sorting out the joke of a junction where it meets the A64, then you will get more traffic out of the city.
The Leeds tram system is not running because it would have competed against a major international bus company's most profitable routes in Leeds... a bus company that is controlled from scotland; and at the time the transport minister, Alistair Darling, was also Scottish... both the bus company and the transport minister had a closed-doors meeting, and a suspiciously short while after the meeting all tram funding was cancelled.

Costings, effectiveness, the buisness case, and quality for passengers had nothing to do with it - it all came down to dirty politics and backroom deals.
That explains it, cheers
[quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]notpedallingpaul[/bold] wrote: So here we have Paul Hepworth aka pedalling paul now jumping on the tram bandwagon, how many years would it take to provide a tram system in York? how much would it cost? You only have to look at what happened to the Leeds tram proposal, is it running, no it's not. The money would be better spent on upgrading the outer ring road i.e. The A1237, and sorting out the joke of a junction where it meets the A64, then you will get more traffic out of the city.[/p][/quote]The Leeds tram system is not running because it would have competed against a major international bus company's most profitable routes in Leeds... a bus company that is controlled from scotland; and at the time the transport minister, Alistair Darling, was also Scottish... both the bus company and the transport minister had a closed-doors meeting, and a suspiciously short while after the meeting all tram funding was cancelled. Costings, effectiveness, the buisness case, and quality for passengers had nothing to do with it - it all came down to dirty politics and backroom deals.[/p][/quote]That explains it, cheers notpedallingpaul
  • Score: -73

9:05pm Sat 6 Sep 14

Peniel says...

But the tram failed last century... What are the chances of it working this century?
But the tram failed last century... What are the chances of it working this century? Peniel
  • Score: -1

10:49pm Sat 6 Sep 14

KevinWard59 says...

Peniel wrote:
But the tram failed last century... What are the chances of it working this century?
Solar Electric Powered Trolley Buses perhaps; but trams are a slightly outdated and a bigger white than HS2 (already 20 years out of date).

Reminds me of some High Street "Computer Stores" buying up massive stocks of outdated/superseded technology to off load on the un-knowledgeable general public who then spend £££'s again on "upgrades" to bring the specifications up to date.
[quote][p][bold]Peniel[/bold] wrote: But the tram failed last century... What are the chances of it working this century?[/p][/quote]Solar Electric Powered Trolley Buses perhaps; but trams are a slightly outdated and a bigger white than HS2 (already 20 years out of date). Reminds me of some High Street "Computer Stores" buying up massive stocks of outdated/superseded technology to off load on the un-knowledgeable general public who then spend £££'s again on "upgrades" to bring the specifications up to date. KevinWard59
  • Score: 0

10:55pm Sat 6 Sep 14

KevinWard59 says...

To get people out of cars and onto public transport it requires good marketing strategy - i.e. A.I.D.A.

It is absolutely essential to provide a good alternative - then help the motorist that that alternative is better for them, financially or otherwise.

That is why and where the Park and Ride model fails inherently in the way it is currently operated and administered throughout the country.

Poor analysis of Visitor intended destination by percentile.
To get people out of cars and onto public transport it requires good marketing strategy - i.e. A.I.D.A. It is absolutely essential to provide a good alternative - then help the motorist that that alternative is better for them, financially or otherwise. That is why and where the Park and Ride model fails inherently in the way it is currently operated and administered throughout the country. Poor analysis of Visitor intended destination by percentile. KevinWard59
  • Score: 1

1:31am Mon 8 Sep 14

Magicman! says...

Peniel wrote:
But the tram failed last century... What are the chances of it working this century?
It failed last century because the motor car had just been invented, which flags up a few reasons:
- the car was brand new, so everybody wanted this new-fangled thing
- back then there were low fuel prices, no car insurance, no driving tests, so it cost the same or was cheaper to drive than go by tram
- motor cars were quicker than trams; this was due to both because of the drive traction used, and also because roads had much fewer vehicles back then so there was far less congestion
- trams often didn't have dedicated lanes back then, so if there was a traffic queue then the tram got caught up in it too

... modern tram systems have vehicles with quick acceleration, and the linespeed usually either matches or exceeds the nearest road runing to the same places as the tram, in addition to the tram having a dedicated lane and priority signals at road intersections.
[quote][p][bold]Peniel[/bold] wrote: But the tram failed last century... What are the chances of it working this century?[/p][/quote]It failed last century because the motor car had just been invented, which flags up a few reasons: - the car was brand new, so everybody wanted this new-fangled thing - back then there were low fuel prices, no car insurance, no driving tests, so it cost the same or was cheaper to drive than go by tram - motor cars were quicker than trams; this was due to both because of the drive traction used, and also because roads had much fewer vehicles back then so there was far less congestion - trams often didn't have dedicated lanes back then, so if there was a traffic queue then the tram got caught up in it too ... modern tram systems have vehicles with quick acceleration, and the linespeed usually either matches or exceeds the nearest road runing to the same places as the tram, in addition to the tram having a dedicated lane and priority signals at road intersections. Magicman!
  • Score: 1

1:38am Mon 8 Sep 14

KevinWard59 says...

Magicman! wrote:
Peniel wrote:
But the tram failed last century... What are the chances of it working this century?
It failed last century because the motor car had just been invented, which flags up a few reasons:
- the car was brand new, so everybody wanted this new-fangled thing
- back then there were low fuel prices, no car insurance, no driving tests, so it cost the same or was cheaper to drive than go by tram
- motor cars were quicker than trams; this was due to both because of the drive traction used, and also because roads had much fewer vehicles back then so there was far less congestion
- trams often didn't have dedicated lanes back then, so if there was a traffic queue then the tram got caught up in it too

... modern tram systems have vehicles with quick acceleration, and the linespeed usually either matches or exceeds the nearest road runing to the same places as the tram, in addition to the tram having a dedicated lane and priority signals at road intersections.
Wow - so simple, and the cyclist advance green filters that even take priority from the bus priority lanes could all be modified with a tram icon instead.

All cyclist could stick to the pavements too to allow the trams to get by more quickly.

And all the obsessed enthusiasts could start tram spotting.

Idyllic?
[quote][p][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Peniel[/bold] wrote: But the tram failed last century... What are the chances of it working this century?[/p][/quote]It failed last century because the motor car had just been invented, which flags up a few reasons: - the car was brand new, so everybody wanted this new-fangled thing - back then there were low fuel prices, no car insurance, no driving tests, so it cost the same or was cheaper to drive than go by tram - motor cars were quicker than trams; this was due to both because of the drive traction used, and also because roads had much fewer vehicles back then so there was far less congestion - trams often didn't have dedicated lanes back then, so if there was a traffic queue then the tram got caught up in it too ... modern tram systems have vehicles with quick acceleration, and the linespeed usually either matches or exceeds the nearest road runing to the same places as the tram, in addition to the tram having a dedicated lane and priority signals at road intersections.[/p][/quote]Wow - so simple, and the cyclist advance green filters that even take priority from the bus priority lanes could all be modified with a tram icon instead. All cyclist could stick to the pavements too to allow the trams to get by more quickly. And all the obsessed enthusiasts could start tram spotting. Idyllic? KevinWard59
  • Score: -2

1:41am Mon 8 Sep 14

KevinWard59 says...

Oh - but what about all these 20 limits ???

Speeding Trams kill kids too, don't they?
Oh - but what about all these 20 limits ??? Speeding Trams kill kids too, don't they? KevinWard59
  • Score: -1
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