King’s Square cost was far too high

York Press: King’s Square  cost was far too high King’s Square cost was far too high

ANONYMOUS Labour-supporting commentators on The Press website have tried to justify the expensive King’s Square reconstruction by saying the work had to be done anyway because of old, broken and uneven paving slabs. This is not the case.

As a retired builder, I have considerable experience of hard landscaping works. For a budget of just a few thousand pounds, the street clutter could have been removed and cracked and uneven York stone flags could have been replaced. The square would have retained its character and been perfectly fit for decades to come.

The £490,000 reinvigoration monies could then have been more wisely spent repairing the many shocking roads and footpaths in residential areas where York citizens actually live.

John Jones, Sand Hutton, York.

Comments (25)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

12:12pm Fri 6 Dec 13

roobarb85 says...

KS redevelopment nothing more than vastly expensive municipal cultural vandalism.
KS used to have idiosyncratic charm - and the proliferation of such sites in York made it such a pleasant place to live/visit.
The new KS could be in any mundane provincial town anywhere.
Sure there were H&S problems at the old KS - but sympathetic renovation and updating was all that was needed.
KS redevelopment nothing more than vastly expensive municipal cultural vandalism. KS used to have idiosyncratic charm - and the proliferation of such sites in York made it such a pleasant place to live/visit. The new KS could be in any mundane provincial town anywhere. Sure there were H&S problems at the old KS - but sympathetic renovation and updating was all that was needed. roobarb85

12:25pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Jonthan says...

It's another swipe at the council and not to be taken seriously. The same sort of letter would have been written no matter how the renovation turned out
Don't forget that according to the Ukippers and assorted right wing nutters, Labour group on the Council was responsible for the the Fukushima tsunami, the demise of the honeybee and global warming.

I don't much approve of the square, but I totally disassociate myself from the nutters who are happy to denigrate the city just so long as they can lay the blame on the council
It's another swipe at the council and not to be taken seriously. The same sort of letter would have been written no matter how the renovation turned out Don't forget that according to the Ukippers and assorted right wing nutters, Labour group on the Council was responsible for the the Fukushima tsunami, the demise of the honeybee and global warming. I don't much approve of the square, but I totally disassociate myself from the nutters who are happy to denigrate the city just so long as they can lay the blame on the council Jonthan

12:45pm Fri 6 Dec 13

bolero says...

Jonthan wrote:
It's another swipe at the council and not to be taken seriously. The same sort of letter would have been written no matter how the renovation turned out Don't forget that according to the Ukippers and assorted right wing nutters, Labour group on the Council was responsible for the the Fukushima tsunami, the demise of the honeybee and global warming. I don't much approve of the square, but I totally disassociate myself from the nutters who are happy to denigrate the city just so long as they can lay the blame on the council
As you obviously work for this circus will you have a go at getting them to repair the disgusting tripping hazards that exist in the other town centre streets before someone breaks their neck. It won't cost anywhere near what KS has cost.
[quote][p][bold]Jonthan[/bold] wrote: It's another swipe at the council and not to be taken seriously. The same sort of letter would have been written no matter how the renovation turned out Don't forget that according to the Ukippers and assorted right wing nutters, Labour group on the Council was responsible for the the Fukushima tsunami, the demise of the honeybee and global warming. I don't much approve of the square, but I totally disassociate myself from the nutters who are happy to denigrate the city just so long as they can lay the blame on the council[/p][/quote]As you obviously work for this circus will you have a go at getting them to repair the disgusting tripping hazards that exist in the other town centre streets before someone breaks their neck. It won't cost anywhere near what KS has cost. bolero

12:48pm Fri 6 Dec 13

TheTruthHurts says...

I am interested as to what happened to all of the stone that was removed? Has this been published yet?
I am interested as to what happened to all of the stone that was removed? Has this been published yet? TheTruthHurts

1:12pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Buzzz Light-year says...

ANONYMOUS Labour-supporting commentators on The Press website have tried to justify the expensive King’s Square reconstruction

What about those who have tried to justify it but don't support Labour? Or does that not compute in your binary, polarised, schismatic thinking?
[quote]ANONYMOUS Labour-supporting commentators on The Press website have tried to justify the expensive King’s Square reconstruction[/quote] What about those who have tried to justify it but don't support Labour? Or does that not compute in your binary, polarised, schismatic thinking? Buzzz Light-year

1:28pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Buzzz Light-year says...

TheTruthHurts wrote:
I am interested as to what happened to all of the stone that was removed? Has this been published yet?
According to Nick Love of Deangate it was all ham-fistedly smashed up during the wanton desecration.
[quote][p][bold]TheTruthHurts[/bold] wrote: I am interested as to what happened to all of the stone that was removed? Has this been published yet?[/p][/quote]According to Nick Love of Deangate it was all ham-fistedly smashed up during the wanton desecration. Buzzz Light-year

2:00pm Fri 6 Dec 13

powerwatt says...

I'm still wondering what happened to the other £450,000?!

As there was no way on earth removing and installing the new square cost that.
I'm still wondering what happened to the other £450,000?! As there was no way on earth removing and installing the new square cost that. powerwatt

2:47pm Fri 6 Dec 13

ColdAsChristmas says...

Good letter John and Jonthan, you have sunk about as low as all the missing global warming heat, somewhere in the Ocean's?
As John says, the broken and uneven stones needed to be reset and replaced only as necessary.
When we have so many roads and footpaths in need of repair, filthy streets and a lack of treating roads in icy weather then this sort of waste is criminal.
Somebody made a big fat profit at the Council Tax payers expense?
Good letter John and Jonthan, you have sunk about as low as all the missing global warming heat, somewhere in the Ocean's? As John says, the broken and uneven stones needed to be reset and replaced only as necessary. When we have so many roads and footpaths in need of repair, filthy streets and a lack of treating roads in icy weather then this sort of waste is criminal. Somebody made a big fat profit at the Council Tax payers expense? ColdAsChristmas

2:54pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Jonthan says...

bolero wrote:
Jonthan wrote:
It's another swipe at the council and not to be taken seriously. The same sort of letter would have been written no matter how the renovation turned out Don't forget that according to the Ukippers and assorted right wing nutters, Labour group on the Council was responsible for the the Fukushima tsunami, the demise of the honeybee and global warming. I don't much approve of the square, but I totally disassociate myself from the nutters who are happy to denigrate the city just so long as they can lay the blame on the council
As you obviously work for this circus will you have a go at getting them to repair the disgusting tripping hazards that exist in the other town centre streets before someone breaks their neck. It won't cost anywhere near what KS has cost.
It really shows the paucity of your arguments when you need to make an ad hominem attack on me , and to get it totally wrong into the bargain.
Once again and just for the record I have never worked for any local authority.I am a retired businesman from York and anyway I am anti Labour and I advise all Press readers to vote Hugh Bayley MP and James Alexander out of office when they have a chance.

I agree with you about the pavements etc. Its a problem for all councils including Tory ones, resulting from massive cuts in Government grants, so take it up with the Tories
Bolero, 0 out of 10 for marshalling your facts
[quote][p][bold]bolero[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonthan[/bold] wrote: It's another swipe at the council and not to be taken seriously. The same sort of letter would have been written no matter how the renovation turned out Don't forget that according to the Ukippers and assorted right wing nutters, Labour group on the Council was responsible for the the Fukushima tsunami, the demise of the honeybee and global warming. I don't much approve of the square, but I totally disassociate myself from the nutters who are happy to denigrate the city just so long as they can lay the blame on the council[/p][/quote]As you obviously work for this circus will you have a go at getting them to repair the disgusting tripping hazards that exist in the other town centre streets before someone breaks their neck. It won't cost anywhere near what KS has cost.[/p][/quote]It really shows the paucity of your arguments when you need to make an ad hominem attack on me , and to get it totally wrong into the bargain. Once again and just for the record I have never worked for any local authority.I am a retired businesman from York and anyway I am anti Labour and I advise all Press readers to vote Hugh Bayley MP and James Alexander out of office when they have a chance. I agree with you about the pavements etc. Its a problem for all councils including Tory ones, resulting from massive cuts in Government grants, so take it up with the Tories Bolero, 0 out of 10 for marshalling your facts Jonthan

3:09pm Fri 6 Dec 13

sheps lad says...

Jonthan if you can't blame the council who can you blame? It wasn't me that voted for it!
Jonthan if you can't blame the council who can you blame? It wasn't me that voted for it! sheps lad

5:38pm Fri 6 Dec 13

roobarb85 says...

Jonathan : it's only a "swipe at the council" in that I think their decision was wrong on two important counts

1 Although KS is a minor part of York its layout had a certain idiosyncratic charm, the York stone was an appropriate material for the surface; the story behind the original tree and its replacement resonated with York's history, and the raised area gave a natural stage to entertainers. Thus to replace this with a mundane layout with humdrum materials is, I would argue a form of, albeit possibly mundane cultural vandalism.

2. In a time of economic strictures, to spend £450 K on the work seems hugely extravagant.

These are hardly destructive comments, but reasonable and reasoned criticism.

To be even more constructive : what should CoYC have done instead?

Keep the materials and basic layout but use good design to allow ramps etc for differently-abled access, replace York stone as required and reuse (green brownie points!) as you can, and take the opportunity to realign road if necessary and rethink seating/viewing angles. OK so I don't have quotes on that , but can't see how it wold have reached £450K.

There you are - reasoned, constructive and not an ad hominem in sight. Any thoughts?
Jonathan : it's only a "swipe at the council" in that I think their decision was wrong on two important counts 1 Although KS is a minor part of York its layout had a certain idiosyncratic charm, the York stone was an appropriate material for the surface; the story behind the original tree and its replacement resonated with York's history, and the raised area gave a natural stage to entertainers. Thus to replace this with a mundane layout with humdrum materials is, I would argue a form of, albeit possibly mundane cultural vandalism. 2. In a time of economic strictures, to spend £450 K on the work seems hugely extravagant. These are hardly destructive comments, but reasonable and reasoned criticism. To be even more constructive : what should CoYC have done instead? Keep the materials and basic layout but use good design to allow ramps etc for differently-abled access, replace York stone as required and reuse (green brownie points!) as you can, and take the opportunity to realign road if necessary and rethink seating/viewing angles. OK so I don't have quotes on that , but can't see how it wold have reached £450K. There you are - reasoned, constructive and not an ad hominem in sight. Any thoughts? roobarb85

6:42pm Fri 6 Dec 13

bolero says...

So there we have it. Johnathan doesn't work for anybody.
So there we have it. Johnathan doesn't work for anybody. bolero

8:01pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Jonthan says...

I certainly agree about the York stone, and my own criticism ot the scheme apply equally to the work outside the Minster. The materials are unsympathetic and characterless. However I don't follow you when you imply that the raised area has gone. It has not. Have you been in the square recently? Nor an I clear what you are getting at when you say "the story behind the original tree and its replacement resonated with York's history" What tree? There at least three and I am not aware that anything has been done to any of them in the course of the work, can you explain please?
Moreover it is as well to remember that the completed work is phase one, and perhaps it would be as well to suspend judgement until we see what we are getting for our money. One persons "waste" is another person's investment.
Anyway thanks for avoiding avoiding the ad homs, and for making the discussion about the redevelopment of the square and not about cheap jibes at councillors.
I certainly agree about the York stone, and my own criticism ot the scheme apply equally to the work outside the Minster. The materials are unsympathetic and characterless. However I don't follow you when you imply that the raised area has gone. It has not. Have you been in the square recently? Nor an I clear what you are getting at when you say "the story behind the original tree and its replacement resonated with York's history" What tree? There at least three and I am not aware that anything has been done to any of them in the course of the work, can you explain please? Moreover it is as well to remember that the completed work is phase one, and perhaps it would be as well to suspend judgement until we see what we are getting for our money. One persons "waste" is another person's investment. Anyway thanks for avoiding avoiding the ad homs, and for making the discussion about the redevelopment of the square and not about cheap jibes at councillors. Jonthan

8:04pm Fri 6 Dec 13

sheps lad says...

bolero wrote:
So there we have it. Johnathan doesn't work for anybody.
i





















































Is he one of Chissy1's scroungers then?















































































































































I
[quote][p][bold]bolero[/bold] wrote: So there we have it. Johnathan doesn't work for anybody.[/p][/quote]i Is he one of Chissy1's scroungers then? I sheps lad

11:41pm Fri 6 Dec 13

wallman says...

cofyc have a certain amount of money to spend never mind spending it on services that we need their idea is just spend it
cofyc have a certain amount of money to spend never mind spending it on services that we need their idea is just spend it wallman

11:45pm Fri 6 Dec 13

akaroa says...

The illegally parked choc shop tricycle, should be booked, receive a parking ticket. Along with the hideous bike, their obnoxious, obstructive street signage is a disgrace. Why has this shop got special privileges that other shop owners have to apply for?
The illegally parked choc shop tricycle, should be booked, receive a parking ticket. Along with the hideous bike, their obnoxious, obstructive street signage is a disgrace. Why has this shop got special privileges that other shop owners have to apply for? akaroa

1:06am Sat 7 Dec 13

Magicman! says...

powerwatt wrote:
I'm still wondering what happened to the other £450,000?!

As there was no way on earth removing and installing the new square cost that.
Exactly. Whilst I neither love or hate what has been done to Kings Square, I am underwhelmed at just how little we have got for HALF A MILLION POUNDS. There isn't even as many places to sit as there were before!
[quote][p][bold]powerwatt[/bold] wrote: I'm still wondering what happened to the other £450,000?! As there was no way on earth removing and installing the new square cost that.[/p][/quote]Exactly. Whilst I neither love or hate what has been done to Kings Square, I am underwhelmed at just how little we have got for HALF A MILLION POUNDS. There isn't even as many places to sit as there were before! Magicman!

1:08am Sat 7 Dec 13

Magicman! says...

sheps lad wrote:
bolero wrote:
So there we have it. Johnathan doesn't work for anybody.
i





















































Is he one of Chissy1's scroungers then?















































































































































I
How long did you keep hitting the 'enter' key for those linespaces filling up this page??
[quote][p][bold]sheps lad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bolero[/bold] wrote: So there we have it. Johnathan doesn't work for anybody.[/p][/quote]i Is he one of Chissy1's scroungers then? I[/p][/quote]How long did you keep hitting the 'enter' key for those linespaces filling up this page?? Magicman!

9:58am Sat 7 Dec 13

sheps lad says...

That's what happens when you try typing in the dark! I was aiming for backspace and couldn't understand why it wasn't working! Hey Ho.
That's what happens when you try typing in the dark! I was aiming for backspace and couldn't understand why it wasn't working! Hey Ho. sheps lad

11:29am Sat 7 Dec 13

Rocking Horse says...

Jonthan wrote:
It's another swipe at the council and not to be taken seriously. The same sort of letter would have been written no matter how the renovation turned out Don't forget that according to the Ukippers and assorted right wing nutters, Labour group on the Council was responsible for the the Fukushima tsunami, the demise of the honeybee and global warming. I don't much approve of the square, but I totally disassociate myself from the nutters who are happy to denigrate the city just so long as they can lay the blame on the council
With comments like this, I'm sure readers will make their own minds up about who the 'nutter' is ?!!!
[quote][p][bold]Jonthan[/bold] wrote: It's another swipe at the council and not to be taken seriously. The same sort of letter would have been written no matter how the renovation turned out Don't forget that according to the Ukippers and assorted right wing nutters, Labour group on the Council was responsible for the the Fukushima tsunami, the demise of the honeybee and global warming. I don't much approve of the square, but I totally disassociate myself from the nutters who are happy to denigrate the city just so long as they can lay the blame on the council[/p][/quote]With comments like this, I'm sure readers will make their own minds up about who the 'nutter' is ?!!! Rocking Horse

7:37pm Sat 7 Dec 13

bolero says...

In view of the `thumbs` down awarded on this one, I withdraw my previous comments as obviously the majority consider this project to be money well spent and have no concern about the state of the streets and roads. So well done CoYC and apologies to Jonathan.
In view of the `thumbs` down awarded on this one, I withdraw my previous comments as obviously the majority consider this project to be money well spent and have no concern about the state of the streets and roads. So well done CoYC and apologies to Jonathan. bolero

2:58pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Dr Robert says...

Where did all the York stone go? it will be nicely laid in someones Terraced propety rear courtyard no doubt.
Where did all the York stone go? it will be nicely laid in someones Terraced propety rear courtyard no doubt. Dr Robert

10:36am Mon 9 Dec 13

Lunatic says...

The stone is to be used in repairing other areas of the city. It said as much in the plans for the square.

As a busker and a life-long York resident, I approve of the changes. The area feels much better now it's not in a state of unpleasant disrepair. If you honestly think replacing some 1970s cobbles with granite "changes the character" of the square, then you're sorely mistaken.

Go down to the Square. It "feels" no different now than it did before the work.
The stone is to be used in repairing other areas of the city. It said as much in the plans for the square. As a busker and a life-long York resident, I approve of the changes. The area feels much better now it's not in a state of unpleasant disrepair. If you honestly think replacing some 1970s cobbles with granite "changes the character" of the square, then you're sorely mistaken. Go down to the Square. It "feels" no different now than it did before the work. Lunatic

11:41am Tue 10 Dec 13

www.yorkstories.co.uk says...

I don't think the '1970s cobbles' and carts tracks were actually manufactured then, were they, they were relaid in the 70s, not quite the same thing. '1970s cobbles' was James Alexander's phrase in a recent tweet, as I recall, and it works well as a dismissive term, clearly.

The disrepair could have been repaired, but never mind, it's done now.

'The area feels much better now'
or
'It "feels" no different now than it did before the work' ?
?
It certainly feels different underfoot. I hope everyone who performs there finds it more pleasant, as you've said. Its main purpose in recent decades seems to have been as a busking and performance area, and let's hope that continues to be the case.
I don't think the '1970s cobbles' and carts tracks were actually manufactured then, were they, they were relaid in the 70s, not quite the same thing. '1970s cobbles' was James Alexander's phrase in a recent tweet, as I recall, and it works well as a dismissive term, clearly. The disrepair could have been repaired, but never mind, it's done now. 'The area feels much better now' or 'It "feels" no different now than it did before the work' ? ? It certainly feels different underfoot. I hope everyone who performs there finds it more pleasant, as you've said. Its main purpose in recent decades seems to have been as a busking and performance area, and let's hope that continues to be the case. www.yorkstories.co.uk

11:56pm Fri 13 Dec 13

akaroa says...

long live love
long live love akaroa

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree