Family bid for Richard III's return (From York Press)
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Family bid for Richard III's return
8:23am Saturday 9th February 2013 in Letters
By Richard Catton, richard.catton@thepress.co.uk
Richard III
THE war of words over where Richard III’s final resting place should be has now seen descendants of the dead king call for him to be buried in York.
Stephen Nicolay, who claims the controversial monarch as his 15th great uncle, said Richard’s final resting place should “without question” be York Minster, while Charles Brunner, a descendant of Richard’s sister, Anne of York, said: “We repatriate those who give their lives in battle, so why is this any different?”
York Minster, whose new dean comes from Leicester, has said it does not want the bones to be buried there.
However, the calls continue to grow for the remains to come to York, and a petition has now gathered more than 15,000 signatures.
Meanwhile, council leaders from all parties in Yorkshire and the north-east are voicing their support, including Bill Dixon, leader of Darlington, Tim Fox leader of Scarborough and Linda Cowling, leader of Ryedale.
James Alexander, leader of City of York Council, said: “As there is no precedent for this extraordinary situation, we have a duty to represent the voice of local people and have submitted appropriate representation to be considered by the respective authorities.
“A number of his descendants have appealed to us to uphold their ancestor’s known living wishes to be buried in York where the king was establishing a chantry of 100 priests. By the time of his death in 1485, six altars were already in place in the Minster where prayers for his and his family’s souls were said.”
Sandra Wadley, chairman of the Society of Friends of King Richard III, said: “York was Richard’s city, the people of York loved him and Richard loved York. You only have to look in York city archives to see how much he was loved.”
To sign the petition, go to bringbackrichard.co.uk
• A German academic working with City of York Council’s archives service has recreated the medieval bread presented to Richard III when he visited the city in 1482.
Richard was presented with a kind of bread unique to the city called “mayne” – a rich and spicy loaf made for special occasions and traditionally presented to Royal or noble visitors by the Mayor, Sheriff and Aldermen.
Coun Sonja Crisp, the council’s cabinet member for leisure, culture and tourism, said: “The art of making it was lost in the 17th century, but attempts to reconstruct the recipe have been underway since the 1950s.
“Now, after working with archive staff to collect all references to the bread in the city’s records, Dr Almute Grohmann-Sinz, a German academic, believes she has developed a mixture close to the medieval original.”
This week, staff received a parcel containing the final version of the bread.
Comments(34)
MrChuckles
says...
9:08am Sat 9 Feb 13
voiceofnormalpeople
says...
10:03am Sat 9 Feb 13
JV1966
says...
10:24am Sat 9 Feb 13
MLewisW
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10:42am Sat 9 Feb 13
voiceofnormalpeople wrote:The Dean is a woman. You may want to take a greater interest in 'your' Minster before you treat it like your own and spread slander. "Moron".
What the hell does it have to do with the new dean of york? Why has he said he doesn't want them here? he just works in the minster not owns it. It is more our minster than his. It would be good for york as it would bring more visitors and that means more money and more publicity for this city. What is there not to like about the prospect of a city surrounded by walls, a castle and a minster and the prospect of a king buried here? Is the dean a moron?
johnabostock
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10:43am Sat 9 Feb 13
voiceofnormalpeople wrote:Would be nice if you got your facts correct. The new Dean of York is not a HE but a SHE, and she comes from Leicester. Can`t you see the link there.
What the hell does it have to do with the new dean of york? Why has he said he doesn't want them here? he just works in the minster not owns it. It is more our minster than his. It would be good for york as it would bring more visitors and that means more money and more publicity for this city. What is there not to like about the prospect of a city surrounded by walls, a castle and a minster and the prospect of a king buried here? Is the dean a moron?
How apart reading the news accurately instead of jumping in with both feet1
RingoStarr
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10:58am Sat 9 Feb 13
DEAN: Delilah
bob the builder
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12:08pm Sat 9 Feb 13
wolfpaw1972
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12:56pm Sat 9 Feb 13
bob the builder wrote:King John was moved across half the country to be buried in Worcester after he died in Newark. Mary Queen of Scots was moved from Peterborough Abbey to Westminster. Henry VI was moved from Chertsey Abbey to St George's Chapel. Royal remains have often been moved around.
English monarchs should be buried at Westminster if not re-interred as near as possible to their first burial. Amazing how all these 'relatives' and 'supporters' appear now his body has been located, shown to have been ill treated and history re-interpreted to suggest he was a 'good' king, after all with good publicity comes money to be made.
Anyway, the key point for me is how on earth a decision of such importance can be left to a biased academic university department?! The licence says that the bones can be buried in *any* consecrated ground where interments can take place. The decision is solely that of the university.
In four hundred years time, when people ask 'why was Richard III buried in Leicester cathedral?' the answer will be 'because that's where the University of Leicester decided'.
York or Westminster are the only two viable options and, even though I don't live in the north, my strong preference is for York Minster.
Sillybillies
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1:18pm Sat 9 Feb 13
Neither give a stuff about York. Well done James Alexander and Julian Sturdy who clearly do.
Woody G Mellor
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2:41pm Sat 9 Feb 13
Sillybillies wrote:Well said!
Isn't the support for a York burial coming from Hugh Bayley and the Archbishop of York wonderful? The first is elected and can be got rid of at the next election, the latter we are lumbered with.
Neither give a stuff about York. Well done James Alexander and Julian Sturdy who clearly do.
It's about time Hugh and John gave their view.
R'Marcus
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3:31pm Sat 9 Feb 13
Woody G Mellor wrote:Well written, Woody.
This situation is obviously not a decision to be made by one or two people at the Minster. Thousands have made their feelings clear. It's the thousands that should be listened too.
King Richard III is OUR king, and has always was.
He was a good king, and did many good things for the people of York during his short life.
Echoing those many thousands of people, the remains of King Richard III must be finally be rested in York Minister.
Sillybillies
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3:38pm Sat 9 Feb 13
R'Marcus
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3:39pm Sat 9 Feb 13
bob the builder wrote:Richard III was a GOOD king during his short life, as many well-read historians know.
English monarchs should be buried at Westminster if not re-interred as near as possible to their first burial. Amazing how all these 'relatives' and 'supporters' appear now his body has been located, shown to have been ill treated and history re-interpreted to suggest he was a 'good' king, after all with good publicity comes money to be made.
"History" from 1470 was mostly the work of William Shakespeare, an arden Tudor supporter and protagantist for the Tudors. It was Shakespeare painted Richard III in a very bad picture.
again
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5:04pm Sat 9 Feb 13
They will assume we have lost our marbles! It will be all Greek to them.
Mullarkian
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6:58pm Sat 9 Feb 13
Put him in Sheriff Hutton where one of his homes was and he will be in the company of his son.
voiceofnormalpeople
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8:27pm Sat 9 Feb 13
MLewisW wrote:spread slander? grow up and stop over exaggerating. So the dean is a women, and? whats the difference in that relating to her opinion? male of female why does a person from leicester have a say in if he is buried at york? And the term "our" means every ones not the deans own building to make decisions on.
voiceofnormalpeople wrote:The Dean is a woman. You may want to take a greater interest in 'your' Minster before you treat it like your own and spread slander. "Moron".
What the hell does it have to do with the new dean of york? Why has he said he doesn't want them here? he just works in the minster not owns it. It is more our minster than his. It would be good for york as it would bring more visitors and that means more money and more publicity for this city. What is there not to like about the prospect of a city surrounded by walls, a castle and a minster and the prospect of a king buried here? Is the dean a moron?
voiceofnormalpeople
says...
8:29pm Sat 9 Feb 13
johnabostock wrote:Obviously aa freind of MlewisW. Yawn.
voiceofnormalpeople wrote:Would be nice if you got your facts correct. The new Dean of York is not a HE but a SHE, and she comes from Leicester. Can`t you see the link there.
What the hell does it have to do with the new dean of york? Why has he said he doesn't want them here? he just works in the minster not owns it. It is more our minster than his. It would be good for york as it would bring more visitors and that means more money and more publicity for this city. What is there not to like about the prospect of a city surrounded by walls, a castle and a minster and the prospect of a king buried here? Is the dean a moron?
How apart reading the news accurately instead of jumping in with both feet1
redbluelion
says...
10:27pm Sat 9 Feb 13
king richard 111 .. belongs to york..he is our true king..unlike the impostors we have now..this great king died on the battlefield alongside other men and so deserves our upmost respect and gratitude..and her in doors at the palace needs to make a statement...
Woody G Mellor
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10:54pm Sat 9 Feb 13
Out of interest. Does anyone know if there is a petition to keep RichardIII in Leicester, and how many votes they have gathered?
Chrido81
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1:36am Sun 10 Feb 13
Mr Anderson
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9:35am Sun 10 Feb 13
Chrido81 wrote:I think we can.
I don't think there is a debate on this matter. I mean, we can't force York Minster to take the remains if they don't want them.
Magritte
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10:53am Sun 10 Feb 13
Mr Anderson wrote:So do I!
Chrido81 wrote:I think we can.
I don't think there is a debate on this matter. I mean, we can't force York Minster to take the remains if they don't want them.
Derbyricardian
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11:18am Sun 10 Feb 13
Woody G Mellor
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1:11pm Sun 10 Feb 13
Magritte wrote:So do I.
Mr Anderson wrote:So do I!
Chrido81 wrote:I think we can.
I don't think there is a debate on this matter. I mean, we can't force York Minster to take the remains if they don't want them.
Seadog
says...
3:34pm Sun 10 Feb 13
The new Dean of York is indeed a woman. She only "comes from Leicester" in the sense that she was previously the Dean of Leicester. Deans may not own their cathedrals (it's not entirely clear who does, actually!) but they are (primus interpares at least) the most senior people in them - roughly the equivalent of a CEO of a major company. Even Bishops and Archbishops are obliged to respect their authority within cathedral precincts. Even Sentamu cannot attend a Chapter meeting uninvited - unless he has a Royal Warrant to do so.
Incidentally, the last burial of (uncremated) remains in York Minster took place in 1836. In that year the Chapter took the decision to allow no more, thanks to overcrowding. A few years later (1850s I think) an Order in Council was issued, forbidding any further burials in any church or churchyard within York's walls.
I suppose all this might be overturned by due process, but I imagine it would be a lengthy and expensive operation.
yorkborn66
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4:09pm Sun 10 Feb 13
Seadog
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5:41pm Sun 10 Feb 13
Mr Anderson
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5:47pm Sun 10 Feb 13
Seadog wrote:Do you have link?
Someone made a very good case for Fotheringhay in yesterday's Guardian letters. (It wasn't me, by the way, passionate "guardianista" though I am !)
Seadog
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5:57pm Sun 10 Feb 13
Mr Anderson
says...
6:22pm Sun 10 Feb 13
Seadog wrote:Ok. Thanks. I'll have a google.
Erm ... probably! But I'm not very IT literate. Just google Guardian Letters, I suppose!
the butler
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1:19am Mon 11 Feb 13
knibbsie
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9:29am Mon 11 Feb 13
Old_Town_Leicester
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9:25am Tue 12 Feb 13
No-one knows where Richard wanted to be buried. Leave him to rest in peace in Leicester, where he has been for so long...
Woody G Mellor says...
9:05am Sat 9 Feb 13