Swapping benefits?

DISABILITY benefits are always an emotive subject (Letters, December 21). The new work capability assessments are obviously meant to separate the genuine from those swinging the lead.

If, as stated, 41 per cent of claimants found fit for work appealed, and 38 per cent of those succeeded, it means that 84 per cent of claimants who were found fit to do some sort of work could actually do so.

Percentage figures can always be used to bolster an argument but can never tell the whole human story.

Let’s hope that in the critical jobs market, work has been found by claimants and they have not had to move from disability to job seekers’ benefits.

Geoff Robb, Hunters Close, Dunnington.

Comments (6)

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12:54pm Mon 24 Dec 12

Zetkin says...

The assessments are in now way "meant to separate the genuine from those swinging the lead," they are meant to save a relatively small amount of cash by withdrawing much-needed support from as many disabled people as possible.

A system that has found several dead people to be capable of work must be suspected of not being especially well-placed to judge who is and who isn't actually able to work.

Scrooge is alive and kicking. His name is Atos and he's kicking disabled people as hard as he possibly can.
The assessments are in now way "meant to separate the genuine from those swinging the lead," they are meant to save a relatively small amount of cash by withdrawing much-needed support from as many disabled people as possible. A system that has found several dead people to be capable of work must be suspected of not being especially well-placed to judge who is and who isn't actually able to work. Scrooge is alive and kicking. His name is Atos and he's kicking disabled people as hard as he possibly can. Zetkin
  • Score: 0

2:09pm Mon 24 Dec 12

Silver says...

Zetkin wrote:
The assessments are in now way "meant to separate the genuine from those swinging the lead," they are meant to save a relatively small amount of cash by withdrawing much-needed support from as many disabled people as possible.

A system that has found several dead people to be capable of work must be suspected of not being especially well-placed to judge who is and who isn't actually able to work.

Scrooge is alive and kicking. His name is Atos and he's kicking disabled people as hard as he possibly can.
Dead people capable of work? I knew they'd made the mistakes of thinking people with disabilities leaving them incapable of work yet classed as being able to work but not the deceased....
[quote][p][bold]Zetkin[/bold] wrote: The assessments are in now way "meant to separate the genuine from those swinging the lead," they are meant to save a relatively small amount of cash by withdrawing much-needed support from as many disabled people as possible. A system that has found several dead people to be capable of work must be suspected of not being especially well-placed to judge who is and who isn't actually able to work. Scrooge is alive and kicking. His name is Atos and he's kicking disabled people as hard as he possibly can.[/p][/quote]Dead people capable of work? I knew they'd made the mistakes of thinking people with disabilities leaving them incapable of work yet classed as being able to work but not the deceased.... Silver
  • Score: 0

6:05pm Mon 24 Dec 12

YSTClinguist says...

>>Let’s hope that in the critical jobs market, work has been found by claimants and they have not had to move from disability to job seekers’ benefits.

People shifted from Incapacity (totally unable to work) to JSA (able to do some work, now given £25 a week less than before) are seen by disability advisors in the jobcentre and are unfortunately subject to sanctions. I have concerns that they, due to mental and physical health issues, may fail to jump through hoops properly and will end up punished, left destitute with no way of feeding or clothing themselves, let alone replacing household appliances in the long run, or covering additional expenditures resulting from their disability.

Many disabled want to work, and do so. It provides them with social contact away from the home, a sense of belonging to the community. The problem with numbers of those found "fit to work" is that people think it means "fit". It doesn't. It means "fit for some work". It might very well be easier for the government to go full communism over this matter and create jobs for the disabled, give them a stipend, as a form of community service role. Unfortunately they'd have to replace workers already doing it, so there'd be an outcry from them.
>>Let’s hope that in the critical jobs market, work has been found by claimants and they have not had to move from disability to job seekers’ benefits. People shifted from Incapacity (totally unable to work) to JSA (able to do some work, now given £25 a week less than before) are seen by disability advisors in the jobcentre and are unfortunately subject to sanctions. I have concerns that they, due to mental and physical health issues, may fail to jump through hoops properly and will end up punished, left destitute with no way of feeding or clothing themselves, let alone replacing household appliances in the long run, or covering additional expenditures resulting from their disability. Many disabled want to work, and do so. It provides them with social contact away from the home, a sense of belonging to the community. The problem with numbers of those found "fit to work" is that people think it means "fit". It doesn't. It means "fit for some work". It might very well be easier for the government to go full communism over this matter and create jobs for the disabled, give them a stipend, as a form of community service role. Unfortunately they'd have to replace workers already doing it, so there'd be an outcry from them. YSTClinguist
  • Score: 0

2:41am Tue 25 Dec 12

Magicman! says...

And to continue from the above point, which is very well written, the simple fact is that Jobcentre 'advisors' don't really count in disability simply because their computer system tells them that they need to have done at least 10 things a week to look for work, be able to travel at least 90 minutes each way to and from work, and have contacted at least 3 employers each week - even if no suitable work is there.
And the government is about to get even more anal on this... as they plan to make it mandatory for jobseekers claimants to sign up to the "jobmatch" website, which puts claimants in direct contact with employers automatically based on what the computer system determines is a job the person can do.... and despite an EU law stating people do not have to allow jobcentre staff access to online records of what has been applied for, our government plans to go around this law by a backdoor along the lines of "if we don't see who you've applied to with evidence we'll have you coming to the jobcentre by force several times a week". Now regardless of whether the disability is physical such as MS, ME, no legs, etc or a mental disability such as a learning disability like Aspergers Syndrome or Downs Syndrome - such changes will either provoke mental trauma or the person will simply not be able to keep up and will be forced into applying for work that is not suitable... and don't think the tack of saying "I only applied for this to keep the jobcentre off my back but actually I won't be able to do this job" will work either, as the jobcentre will follow up to make sure people aren't doing that, with a 6 month sanction for those who do.... with some sanctions going up to several years.


If only we had the know-how to create a huge successful buisness, and then we could work around the tax system whilst lining the Tories' pockets to keep ourselves in money.
And to continue from the above point, which is very well written, the simple fact is that Jobcentre 'advisors' don't really count in disability simply because their computer system tells them that they need to have done at least 10 things a week to look for work, be able to travel at least 90 minutes each way to and from work, and have contacted at least 3 employers each week - even if no suitable work is there. And the government is about to get even more anal on this... as they plan to make it mandatory for jobseekers claimants to sign up to the "jobmatch" website, which puts claimants in direct contact with employers automatically based on what the computer system determines is a job the person can do.... and despite an EU law stating people do not have to allow jobcentre staff access to online records of what has been applied for, our government plans to go around this law by a backdoor along the lines of "if we don't see who you've applied to with evidence we'll have you coming to the jobcentre by force several times a week". Now regardless of whether the disability is physical such as MS, ME, no legs, etc or a mental disability such as a learning disability like Aspergers Syndrome or Downs Syndrome - such changes will either provoke mental trauma or the person will simply not be able to keep up and will be forced into applying for work that is not suitable... and don't think the tack of saying "I only applied for this to keep the jobcentre off my back but actually I won't be able to do this job" will work either, as the jobcentre will follow up to make sure people aren't doing that, with a 6 month sanction for those who do.... with some sanctions going up to several years. If only we had the know-how to create a huge successful buisness, and then we could work around the tax system whilst lining the Tories' pockets to keep ourselves in money. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

2:51pm Wed 26 Dec 12

CynicaloldGit says...

I agree whole heartedly with everything said, but let's not forget just who stared this scheme..............
so called Labour, remember, "think the unthinkable"

When the Tories got in, they must have been clapping their hands in glee to realise that all they have to do to dismantle at least one part of the welfare state, was to follow on where Nu Labour had begun.
That is why there was a hung parliament, voters just could tell the difference between the main 3
I agree whole heartedly with everything said, but let's not forget just who stared this scheme.............. so called Labour, remember, "think the unthinkable" When the Tories got in, they must have been clapping their hands in glee to realise that all they have to do to dismantle at least one part of the welfare state, was to follow on where Nu Labour had begun. That is why there was a hung parliament, voters just could tell the difference between the main 3 CynicaloldGit
  • Score: 0

9:29pm Wed 26 Dec 12

wildthing666 says...

Having had contact with the company ATOS & jobcentre plus I can honestly say that ATOS when it comes tot he so called assessments will, if the HCP thinks they can get away with it, use part of the answer given by the person on the report after the words CLAIMANT STATES: which IMO is saying that the claimant stated these words when asked the question. They do not like been recorded because that means there is a record of the actual words said by the claimant. IMO ATOS are nothing more than corporate bullies, they try telling claimants they see what they can and cannot do, they even say that recording machines are not available when the claimant has informed ATOS at every stage they want their assessment recording. I didn't ask them to record any assessment I told them I would be recording any face to face, maybe with the fact that if provoked I get regressive, also stated on the form, they didn't see me but sent me straight to an WFI at the JC+ and like stated on the form I recorded it.

When I did have to sign on I was told by the JC+ I could only apply for full time work or I wouldn't receive any JSA, they had no answer to why the majority of the jobs I was able to do were part time from 2 hours plus to 20 hours per week. They relented in the end when I refused to sign the form and told them I wouldn't be leaving the building until they altered the form. I think the persons mind was made up when the mobile rang and the wire leading from my pocket wasn't connected to the phone I took out of my pocket to reject the call.
Having had contact with the company ATOS & jobcentre plus I can honestly say that ATOS when it comes tot he so called assessments will, if the HCP thinks they can get away with it, use part of the answer given by the person on the report after the words CLAIMANT STATES: which IMO is saying that the claimant stated these words when asked the question. They do not like been recorded because that means there is a record of the actual words said by the claimant. IMO ATOS are nothing more than corporate bullies, they try telling claimants they see what they can and cannot do, they even say that recording machines are not available when the claimant has informed ATOS at every stage they want their assessment recording. I didn't ask them to record any assessment I told them I would be recording any face to face, maybe with the fact that if provoked I get regressive, also stated on the form, they didn't see me but sent me straight to an WFI at the JC+ and like stated on the form I recorded it. When I did have to sign on I was told by the JC+ I could only apply for full time work or I wouldn't receive any JSA, they had no answer to why the majority of the jobs I was able to do were part time from 2 hours plus to 20 hours per week. They relented in the end when I refused to sign the form and told them I wouldn't be leaving the building until they altered the form. I think the persons mind was made up when the mobile rang and the wire leading from my pocket wasn't connected to the phone I took out of my pocket to reject the call. wildthing666
  • Score: 0

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