£1.5m York market plans to go on display

York Press: York's Newgate Market, which is in line for a £1.5 million facelift York's Newgate Market, which is in line for a £1.5 million facelift

PLANS for a £1.5 million revamp of York’s Newgate Market are to go on show.

Architects enlisted by City of York Council are looking at how the market can be improved following claims it is looking tired and needs a higher profile. Possible schemes include specialist shopping “zones”, canopies over stalls and a meeting area with seats, as well as improving the Jubbergate entrance to attract more customers from Parliament Street.

Bauman Lyons will set up a stall at the market between 11am and 2pm tomorrow and on Saturday and Sunday during York Residents’ Festival, and will also soon have a base in Silver Street where open consultation sessions will be held every Monday between early Feburary and March 3, from 5pm to 6pm. An online consultation will be available at york.gov.uk shortly.

“The £1.5 million we’ve awarded the refurbishment project affirms the market’s importance to the city centre economy - the jobs it supports, the income it generates and the shopping experience,” said Coun Sonja Crisp, the council's cabinet member for leisure, culture and tourism.

 

Comments (40)

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11:29am Thu 23 Jan 14

sheps lad says...

Coun Crisp,put it back where it belongs, in PARLIAMENT STREET!
Coun Crisp,put it back where it belongs, in PARLIAMENT STREET! sheps lad

11:38am Thu 23 Jan 14

rws841 says...

sheps lad wrote:
Coun Crisp,put it back where it belongs, in PARLIAMENT STREET!
The issue with this idea is that Parliament Street is already host to a large number of festivals and stalls and markets every couple of weeks/months. It's really not an appropriate place to put the Newgate Market.
[quote][p][bold]sheps lad[/bold] wrote: Coun Crisp,put it back where it belongs, in PARLIAMENT STREET![/p][/quote]The issue with this idea is that Parliament Street is already host to a large number of festivals and stalls and markets every couple of weeks/months. It's really not an appropriate place to put the Newgate Market. rws841

11:46am Thu 23 Jan 14

Chasing Clicks says...

I think a market should look like a market, any changes would modernise it and i like the old classic market feel. I think the foot fall is the problem getting passing trade from parliament street is a great move good luck.
I think a market should look like a market, any changes would modernise it and i like the old classic market feel. I think the foot fall is the problem getting passing trade from parliament street is a great move good luck. Chasing Clicks

12:03pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Garrowby Turnoff says...

Whenever we're on holiday, no matter where in the World, Mrs Turnoff looks for local "markets" and I get dragged along for a day of purgatory looking at the same old tat you find in every market twixt Rome and Hell. "Your guarantee is in the post" one cheeky Spanish stallholder told Mrs T when she bought a €22 "Rolex" watch.

Hey Ho... A million and half squids is here nor there at CoYC these days as long as it vaguely comes under the "tourism" excuse.
Whenever we're on holiday, no matter where in the World, Mrs Turnoff looks for local "markets" and I get dragged along for a day of purgatory looking at the same old tat you find in every market twixt Rome and Hell. "Your guarantee is in the post" one cheeky Spanish stallholder told Mrs T when she bought a €22 "Rolex" watch. Hey Ho... A million and half squids is here nor there at CoYC these days as long as it vaguely comes under the "tourism" excuse. Garrowby Turnoff

12:03pm Thu 23 Jan 14

JHardacre says...

Alternatively the site would make a great location for a central multi-storey car park.

Only joking folks!
Alternatively the site would make a great location for a central multi-storey car park. Only joking folks! JHardacre

12:12pm Thu 23 Jan 14

ouseswimmer says...

The market should be closed and rebuilt as it was before being bombed. Tourists want history not shoddy markets as this one is.
The market should be closed and rebuilt as it was before being bombed. Tourists want history not shoddy markets as this one is. ouseswimmer

12:18pm Thu 23 Jan 14

tobefair says...

Where do they keep getting the money from?
Where do they keep getting the money from? tobefair

12:27pm Thu 23 Jan 14

BL2 says...

tobefair wrote:
Where do they keep getting the money from?
Our pockets! Then they waste it... People will use the market if it sells what they want at a decent quality and price and they know it is there. No amount of money thrown at the way it looks will change this!
[quote][p][bold]tobefair[/bold] wrote: Where do they keep getting the money from?[/p][/quote]Our pockets! Then they waste it... People will use the market if it sells what they want at a decent quality and price and they know it is there. No amount of money thrown at the way it looks will change this! BL2

1:23pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Aladdinsane says...

tobefair wrote:
Where do they keep getting the money from?
Fines for crossing the river on Lendal bridge!
[quote][p][bold]tobefair[/bold] wrote: Where do they keep getting the money from?[/p][/quote]Fines for crossing the river on Lendal bridge! Aladdinsane

1:29pm Thu 23 Jan 14

pedalling paul says...

Hope the scheme retains the useful covered cycle racks towards the Pavement end of the site..........
Hope the scheme retains the useful covered cycle racks towards the Pavement end of the site.......... pedalling paul

1:39pm Thu 23 Jan 14

m dee says...

Couple of points,are the fees of Bauman Lyons for doing the consultation and design coming out of the £1.5 million if so will there be much left for the project.
Please do not do that Kings Square world class idea thing its meant to be a market square.
Couple of points,are the fees of Bauman Lyons for doing the consultation and design coming out of the £1.5 million if so will there be much left for the project. Please do not do that Kings Square world class idea thing its meant to be a market square. m dee

2:00pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Sugarpop says...

Why not switch things round when the special markets are on? Put them in Newgate and give Parliament street to the everyday Market or better still whack them all together in Newgate but with better signed and easier access?
Why not switch things round when the special markets are on? Put them in Newgate and give Parliament street to the everyday Market or better still whack them all together in Newgate but with better signed and easier access? Sugarpop

4:32pm Thu 23 Jan 14

PhilR@Strike says...

wilson usain wrote:
pedalling paul wrote: Hope the scheme retains the useful covered cycle racks towards the Pavement end of the site..........
Get a life you sad prat
#Car-driver :(
[quote][p][bold]wilson usain[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Hope the scheme retains the useful covered cycle racks towards the Pavement end of the site..........[/p][/quote]Get a life you sad prat[/p][/quote]#Car-driver :( PhilR@Strike

5:21pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Fabius the Delayer says...

m dee wrote:
Couple of points,are the fees of Bauman Lyons for doing the consultation and design coming out of the £1.5 million if so will there be much left for the project.
Please do not do that Kings Square world class idea thing its meant to be a market square.
£1,000,000 in consultancy fees,
£400,000 councillors meetings and expenses
£100,000 all that'l be spent on bricks and mortar.

Dose anybody know where the cobbles from Kings square went ?
worth a few bob they were. sold to who?
[quote][p][bold]m dee[/bold] wrote: Couple of points,are the fees of Bauman Lyons for doing the consultation and design coming out of the £1.5 million if so will there be much left for the project. Please do not do that Kings Square world class idea thing its meant to be a market square.[/p][/quote]£1,000,000 in consultancy fees, £400,000 councillors meetings and expenses £100,000 all that'l be spent on bricks and mortar. Dose anybody know where the cobbles from Kings square went ? worth a few bob they were. sold to who? Fabius the Delayer

5:21pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Fabius the Delayer says...

m dee wrote:
Couple of points,are the fees of Bauman Lyons for doing the consultation and design coming out of the £1.5 million if so will there be much left for the project.
Please do not do that Kings Square world class idea thing its meant to be a market square.
£1,000,000 in consultancy fees,
£400,000 councillors meetings and expenses
£100,000 all that'l be spent on bricks and mortar.

Dose anybody know where the cobbles from Kings square went ?
worth a few bob they were. sold to who?
[quote][p][bold]m dee[/bold] wrote: Couple of points,are the fees of Bauman Lyons for doing the consultation and design coming out of the £1.5 million if so will there be much left for the project. Please do not do that Kings Square world class idea thing its meant to be a market square.[/p][/quote]£1,000,000 in consultancy fees, £400,000 councillors meetings and expenses £100,000 all that'l be spent on bricks and mortar. Dose anybody know where the cobbles from Kings square went ? worth a few bob they were. sold to who? Fabius the Delayer

5:35pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Steve, says...

This is someone trying to make themselves look busy at the council..

Jesus, do they not sit back and think 'well, it is a WORKING city that needs to cater for residents also'?
How are they going to shut Fossgate??
The market would be fine if it was better run, it's a shambles at the moment; the jubbergate entrance is the busiest one!
This is someone trying to make themselves look busy at the council.. Jesus, do they not sit back and think 'well, it is a WORKING city that needs to cater for residents also'? How are they going to shut Fossgate?? The market would be fine if it was better run, it's a shambles at the moment; the jubbergate entrance is the busiest one! Steve,

7:58pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Bauman Lyons says...

Hello,
Looking forward to talking with you all at the market.
We will be there from Friday till Sunday .
Please come and talk to us: it will be cold and wet and we need to know what you think to make it all worthwhile.
Irena Bauman (Bauman Lyons)
Hello, Looking forward to talking with you all at the market. We will be there from Friday till Sunday . Please come and talk to us: it will be cold and wet and we need to know what you think to make it all worthwhile. Irena Bauman (Bauman Lyons) Bauman Lyons

8:02pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Bauman Lyons says...

Hello,
We look forward to talking with you .
We will be at the Market on a stall on Friday, Saturday and Sunday- it will be wet and cold so please come to talk to us to make it all worthwhile- we need to know what you think and we have a lot to show you.
Hello, We look forward to talking with you . We will be at the Market on a stall on Friday, Saturday and Sunday- it will be wet and cold so please come to talk to us to make it all worthwhile- we need to know what you think and we have a lot to show you. Bauman Lyons

1:08am Fri 24 Jan 14

Magicman! says...

How about moving it to Stonebow... either by clearing out the betting shop, jobcentre, and associated offices next door in order to make a large covered space for trading; or by demolishing the building and replacing it with a covered dedicated markets centre. It'd be right by the primary bus stops for York in addition to a main car park and so would be in the heart if visitor streams.
How about moving it to Stonebow... either by clearing out the betting shop, jobcentre, and associated offices next door in order to make a large covered space for trading; or by demolishing the building and replacing it with a covered dedicated markets centre. It'd be right by the primary bus stops for York in addition to a main car park and so would be in the heart if visitor streams. Magicman!

8:28am Fri 24 Jan 14

pedalling paul says...

PhilR@Strike wrote:
wilson usain wrote:
pedalling paul wrote: Hope the scheme retains the useful covered cycle racks towards the Pavement end of the site..........
Get a life you sad prat
#Car-driver :(
One bite so far.....keep 'em coming!
[quote][p][bold]PhilR@Strike[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wilson usain[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Hope the scheme retains the useful covered cycle racks towards the Pavement end of the site..........[/p][/quote]Get a life you sad prat[/p][/quote]#Car-driver :([/p][/quote]One bite so far.....keep 'em coming! pedalling paul

8:33am Fri 24 Jan 14

boroboy66 says...

Why dont they build a huge indoor market on the stonebow site?as other cities have,would attract stall holders and shopkeepers alike,or is this earmarked for another 3-4 star hotel,or even more unoccupied new flats?,and do we not have our own designers or architects or must we waste the usual percentage on consultancy fees!. as normal.
Why dont they build a huge indoor market on the stonebow site?as other cities have,would attract stall holders and shopkeepers alike,or is this earmarked for another 3-4 star hotel,or even more unoccupied new flats?,and do we not have our own designers or architects or must we waste the usual percentage on consultancy fees!. as normal. boroboy66

9:18am Fri 24 Jan 14

manfromuncle says...

Don't worry taxpayers, the money is coming from a loan which will have to be paid back from increased rents to the traders over the next 10 years.

This of course will cause considerablke hardship if a corresponding increase in trade does not materialise.

Parliament street is the historical *home* of the market, where it stood for 300 years.

Visiting event markets have been eroding the city centre economy, and have become far too numerous. For every 10k the council collects from visiting markets in rent I would suggest 100k is lost to the local economy, this will continue to close small businesses in the centre and lead us relentlessly to clone town York.
Don't worry taxpayers, the money is coming from a loan which will have to be paid back from increased rents to the traders over the next 10 years. This of course will cause considerablke hardship if a corresponding increase in trade does not materialise. Parliament street is the historical *home* of the market, where it stood for 300 years. Visiting event markets have been eroding the city centre economy, and have become far too numerous. For every 10k the council collects from visiting markets in rent I would suggest 100k is lost to the local economy, this will continue to close small businesses in the centre and lead us relentlessly to clone town York. manfromuncle

11:20am Fri 24 Jan 14

Robert Davro says...

The new plans are great but they really should move the market to Monks Cross, that's where most of the shoppers are.
The new plans are great but they really should move the market to Monks Cross, that's where most of the shoppers are. Robert Davro

3:52pm Fri 24 Jan 14

Just_My_Twopenneth says...

Hi Bauman Lyons, Sonja Crisp (Market officials, traders, public, and whoever else is listening) :

It is a real shame, that the thought of spending such money (which have come from a grant) is going to reinvigorate Newgate Market. Such as the York Council department for Tourism (who are spending the money/grant), do they REALLY believe that folks visit York to visit a Newgate Market?

If folks do go to York to visit a market at all, it is most likely to be one of the well publicised Event Markets, that take place in Parliament St. It will hardly be a market that is 'tucked away' where they (and a lot of locals also) didn't even know a market dark/dirty/smelly square existed, whilst they were probably en-route to the Shambles or the Minster, or one of York's much superior things to see if you are visiting the city (sorry Newgate traders, but the truth does hurt).

The main issues for Newgate as I see it are several fold, and you can spend as much money on it as you like, but it will not fix these problems:
(and in no uncertain order of priority)

1) Increasing frequency of Specialist Event markets on Parliament St. (As they have much greater visibility to both locals and visitors alike)

2) Newgate is very poorly (if at all) publicised/marketed.
market. (given it's location)

2a) It looks and smells and sounds like a temporary rubbish tip, with those large overflowing council bins, being careered around regularly.

3) It is more a 'locals' market; and as a local, I like it, and use it regularly. But as a visitor, you are only likely to fall/stumble upon it, en-route to other places; and ANY idea that in rough retail times, (when high streets are taking a hit); that folks are going to travel (and put petrol in their cars, and park them; even in Park & Ride, as the city traffic fines, and parking fees are extortionate) or get on a train to go to Newgate (even once it is renovated) seriously are showing an abject 'lack of understanding' regarding York.

4) Markets are for people who like the market experience, if it ends up getting turned into a funkier place (by the architects, and planners so they can win an award, and big themselves up) in the first few weeks it may get a little extra footfall, due to a fillip in media (local Yorkshire TV & News) and publications etc, but it will not be maintained for long, and the Newgate traders will be left picking up the tab in the medium to long term.

5) There are currently business's closing on the 'Shamble's in York, due to lack of footfall; previously unheard of in years gone by! Yes of course I am aware that their rates/rents are much much higher, the point I am making is > if they cannot attract footfall and enough business (in one of Yorks oldest and most famous reasons for visiting York by many), what chance has a redeveloped Newgate got? The business principles are the same; i.e. footfall equates directly to takings.

6) To add to this impending proverbial 'train-crash' of a money spend; the people/team who look after the market (did I say "look after"; forgive me...I do apologise ;-); have no idea how to run the show, or promote Newgate effectively for our City; besides which none have traded at Newgate (or other markets for that matter), so are completely unable to empathise with the traders difficult situations. They are good however at collecting the traders rent. Whilst being unable to resolve trader issues/disputes; or to represent them positively. i.e weak management persists. And you cannot count Bauman Lyons (the architects) standing out for a couple of hours over a few days, and putting a consultation team between the hours of 5pm & 6pm (as discussed in the news article above), once the city streets are literally dead at that time, and everyone is rushing home in the Winter. Especially the all important traders, who come from all over the place, and have been on the go since as early as 4am 5am and 6am, standing in all manner of British weather; they, simply wish to be home also; and are already pretty dismayed that the Council and market operatives (who are sat in warm offices most of the day), only ever pretend to listen to them, (pay them lip service) and then it's a case of same old same-old; "could we have your rent please". Have you ever tried to get hold of anyone in the 'Markets office' after 2:30 in the afternoon. Well give it a go, and see what I mean. Why don't they finish in their when the traders finish? Seems silly, especially if an issue arises which requires resolving; I assume they are supposed to do that also, besides collecting rent, which I'm sure isn't really a 'skill' as such.

7) And please please please, keep the cobbles, they are part of what makes York quaint, beautiful, quirky and different. I know all has been ripped up in other areas, and Kings Square recently, in the name of Health & Safety, or for the few folks who will visit York in wheelchairs etc, (I have nothing against people in wheelchairs by the way, before the PC brigade get on the case) they are wonderful visitors to York's, and I am sure that they aid to the struggling economy also; once again the point being made (regarding the cobbles) is; why don't we ever end up doing what the majority of the traders want to vote for, as they are the market, and all that is ever done in this country appears to be for the minorities; now many folks forefathers fought in wars so this country could be a democracy, not so that folks could 'pass' bill or decision ( sneked under the carpet) by way of stating that it needs to be such in the name of Health and Safety.

8) Newgate market is open on TOO MANY days of the week.... Making it less than special... go and see why more successful markets open on less days; if it is not bloody obvious already..... Oh dear I see the issue, it wouldn't generate the rent... LOL!

Then there will be another shake up of local government, and staff positions, just so blame is less traceable (as usual in councils). Oh... Gotta keep folks on the move, and no single person can EVER be responsible, as it's all done by a committee nowadays.

Only winners are going to be Bauman Lyons here, as it's their contract. So of course they have to send a couple of 'stool pigeons' out to pretend they understand all about markets now, and we listened??? to what the traders had to say for a couple of hours for a few day. Job Done!

Here's an idea... get the traders to fill out a quick tick form/card (ONLY every time they SERVE a PAYING/PURCHASING customer), as to whether the customer 'themselves' (as that is the important bit, and key here) decides they are a 'local customer' or 'a tourist/visitor customer'. It wouldn't be onerous on the trader to gain that information/feedback from 'purchasing customers' and hand that back to the committee. A simple idea, which will definitely show the local to tourist/visitor spread; but it is unlikely, that this good idea will be adopted... because it is a good and 'importantly' simple idea; however the truthful data that it would produce, would cause an issue for the council, as they wouldn't want the results.

I could go on...,,and there is a lot more... but I figure that should present a reasonable amount of evidence to state, that spending money is NOT going to help Newgate and it's traders.

It's a crying shame....

And finally:

There is another breaking news story that states York Council are Spending 2.2Million on other areas of York, described as: (Verbatim)

"A £2.2 MILLION new look for a York square, a city-centre junction and one of its shopping streets has been unveiled"

I'm really not sure how that stacks up and equates against spending £1.5 Million on a market, that wants to remain a market, and is only frequented by locals. It's bloody crazy.

Just_My_Twopenneth
Hi Bauman Lyons, Sonja Crisp (Market officials, traders, public, and whoever else is listening) : It is a real shame, that the thought of spending such money (which have come from a grant) is going to reinvigorate Newgate Market. Such as the York Council department for Tourism (who are spending the money/grant), do they REALLY believe that folks visit York to visit a Newgate Market? If folks do go to York to visit a market at all, it is most likely to be one of the well publicised Event Markets, that take place in Parliament St. It will hardly be a market that is 'tucked away' where they (and a lot of locals also) didn't even know a market dark/dirty/smelly square existed, whilst they were probably en-route to the Shambles or the Minster, or one of York's much superior things to see if you are visiting the city (sorry Newgate traders, but the truth does hurt). The main issues for Newgate as I see it are several fold, and you can spend as much money on it as you like, but it will not fix these problems: (and in no uncertain order of priority) 1) Increasing frequency of Specialist Event markets on Parliament St. (As they have much greater visibility to both locals and visitors alike) 2) Newgate is very poorly (if at all) publicised/marketed. market. (given it's location) 2a) It looks and smells and sounds like a temporary rubbish tip, with those large overflowing council bins, being careered around regularly. 3) It is more a 'locals' market; and as a local, I like it, and use it regularly. But as a visitor, you are only likely to fall/stumble upon it, en-route to other places; and ANY idea that in rough retail times, (when high streets are taking a hit); that folks are going to travel (and put petrol in their cars, and park them; even in Park & Ride, as the city traffic fines, and parking fees are extortionate) or get on a train to go to Newgate (even once it is renovated) seriously are showing an abject 'lack of understanding' regarding York. 4) Markets are for people who like the market experience, if it ends up getting turned into a funkier place (by the architects, and planners so they can win an award, and big themselves up) in the first few weeks it may get a little extra footfall, due to a fillip in media (local Yorkshire TV & News) and publications etc, but it will not be maintained for long, and the Newgate traders will be left picking up the tab in the medium to long term. 5) There are currently business's closing on the 'Shamble's in York, due to lack of footfall; previously unheard of in years gone by! Yes of course I am aware that their rates/rents are much much higher, the point I am making is > if they cannot attract footfall and enough business (in one of Yorks oldest and most famous reasons for visiting York by many), what chance has a redeveloped Newgate got? The business principles are the same; i.e. footfall equates directly to takings. 6) To add to this impending proverbial 'train-crash' of a money spend; the people/team who look after the market (did I say "look after"; forgive me...I do apologise ;-); have no idea how to run the show, or promote Newgate effectively for our City; besides which none have traded at Newgate (or other markets for that matter), so are completely unable to empathise with the traders difficult situations. They are good however at collecting the traders rent. Whilst being unable to resolve trader issues/disputes; or to represent them positively. i.e weak management persists. And you cannot count Bauman Lyons (the architects) standing out for a couple of hours over a few days, and putting a consultation team between the hours of 5pm & 6pm (as discussed in the news article above), once the city streets are literally dead at that time, and everyone is rushing home in the Winter. Especially the all important traders, who come from all over the place, and have been on the go since as early as 4am 5am and 6am, standing in all manner of British weather; they, simply wish to be home also; and are already pretty dismayed that the Council and market operatives (who are sat in warm offices most of the day), only ever pretend to listen to them, (pay them lip service) and then it's a case of same old same-old; "could we have your rent please". Have you ever tried to get hold of anyone in the 'Markets office' after 2:30 in the afternoon. Well give it a go, and see what I mean. Why don't they finish in their when the traders finish? Seems silly, especially if an issue arises which requires resolving; I assume they are supposed to do that also, besides collecting rent, which I'm sure isn't really a 'skill' as such. 7) And please please please, keep the cobbles, they are part of what makes York quaint, beautiful, quirky and different. I know all has been ripped up in other areas, and Kings Square recently, in the name of Health & Safety, or for the few folks who will visit York in wheelchairs etc, (I have nothing against people in wheelchairs by the way, before the PC brigade get on the case) they are wonderful visitors to York's, and I am sure that they aid to the struggling economy also; once again the point being made (regarding the cobbles) is; why don't we ever end up doing what the majority of the traders want to vote for, as they are the market, and all that is ever done in this country appears to be for the minorities; now many folks forefathers fought in wars so this country could be a democracy, not so that folks could 'pass' bill or decision ( sneked under the carpet) by way of stating that it needs to be such in the name of Health and Safety. 8) Newgate market is open on TOO MANY days of the week.... Making it less than special... go and see why more successful markets open on less days; if it is not bloody obvious already..... Oh dear I see the issue, it wouldn't generate the rent... LOL! Then there will be another shake up of local government, and staff positions, just so blame is less traceable (as usual in councils). Oh... Gotta keep folks on the move, and no single person can EVER be responsible, as it's all done by a committee nowadays. Only winners are going to be Bauman Lyons here, as it's their contract. So of course they have to send a couple of 'stool pigeons' out to pretend they understand all about markets now, and we listened??? to what the traders had to say for a couple of hours for a few day. Job Done! Here's an idea... get the traders to fill out a quick tick form/card (ONLY every time they SERVE a PAYING/PURCHASING customer), as to whether the customer 'themselves' (as that is the important bit, and key here) decides they are a 'local customer' or 'a tourist/visitor customer'. It wouldn't be onerous on the trader to gain that information/feedback from 'purchasing customers' and hand that back to the committee. A simple idea, which will definitely show the local to tourist/visitor spread; but it is unlikely, that this good idea will be adopted... because it is a good and 'importantly' simple idea; however the truthful data that it would produce, would cause an issue for the council, as they wouldn't want the results. I could go on...,,and there is a lot more... but I figure that should present a reasonable amount of evidence to state, that spending money is NOT going to help Newgate and it's traders. It's a crying shame.... And finally: There is another breaking news story that states York Council are Spending 2.2Million on other areas of York, described as: (Verbatim) "A £2.2 MILLION new look for a York square, a city-centre junction and one of its shopping streets has been unveiled" I'm really not sure how that stacks up and equates against spending £1.5 Million on a market, that wants to remain a market, and is only frequented by locals. It's bloody crazy. Just_My_Twopenneth Just_My_Twopenneth

3:58pm Fri 24 Jan 14

Just_My_Twopenneth says...

Robert Davro wrote:
The new plans are great but they really should move the market to Monks Cross, that's where most of the shoppers are.
Oh Yes Robert?

I'm sure that the 'Privately' enterprises and shops run by a private landlord will be very enamoured with the idea of a council 'market' turning up on their doorstep.

Get real.
[quote][p][bold]Robert Davro[/bold] wrote: The new plans are great but they really should move the market to Monks Cross, that's where most of the shoppers are.[/p][/quote]Oh Yes Robert? I'm sure that the 'Privately' enterprises and shops run by a private landlord will be very enamoured with the idea of a council 'market' turning up on their doorstep. Get real. Just_My_Twopenneth

4:40pm Fri 24 Jan 14

Dave Taylor says...

It would be a shame if the extensive comments of "Just_My_Twopenneth" are lost. Please send it in 'properly' to the consultation or as a letter to the Council.
It would be a shame if the extensive comments of "Just_My_Twopenneth" are lost. Please send it in 'properly' to the consultation or as a letter to the Council. Dave Taylor

7:43pm Fri 24 Jan 14

Just_My_Twopenneth says...

Dave Taylor wrote:
It would be a shame if the extensive comments of "Just_My_Twopen
neth" are lost. Please send it in 'properly' to the consultation or as a letter to the Council.
Thanks Dave for your sentiment:

But if folks aren't sure that Newgate is seen primarily as a 'locals' market... by the council; which everybody else knows it is anyway (apart from those making money from the contract, and those wanting to leave a legacy) really need to be reading reports such as the downloadable 'pdf' files (Adobe Acrobat documents) at the foot of the following web page.

Even tells you how much they plan to increase the traders rent to recoup the money... I'm sure they will be well 'chuffed' with that, as they say in Yarkshire ;-)


http://democracy.yor
k.gov.uk/ieDecisionD
etails.aspx?AIId=297
28

Where point 10 (amongst a whole lot of other interesting stuff in the main report) states, that the key deliverables are to deliver:

• A market that continues to provide a retail offer for local
residents (especially high quality fresh food) whilst at the same
time becoming a destination for visitors

• A market that is popular with existing traders whilst stimulating
new business start ups and attracts new traders to enhance the
quality of the offer

It's all there in black and white

the main document being the first one in the list, (Newgate Market)


http://democracy.yor
k.gov.uk/documents/s
76928/Newgate%20Mark
et.pdf

but the others are also interesting, if you really want to get a view of how the council see things.

It's all valid for public information/consumpt
ion, in black and white, undeniable and recorded online, and there is plenty more info/words where that came from.

The traders (very important to them) and public really ought to be reading these, as all the info has been regurgitated many times, over & over in the past. But words are cheap; it's actions that count.

It's all about how much the council are currently making from the traders, how they will recoup the money being spent on the renovation, without any reality (simply conjecture all over the place) regarding how they will are going to bring customers and footfall, to a market, that is up against the additional extra money that the council take from the increasing frequency of Parliament St/Specialist Events.

Do these folks really live in the real world?, anyone would think these councillors and market operatives, and "qualified architects" (regarding Newgate Market renovation meetings) are experts regarding market trading, understanding Newgate's poor footfall, and how they are going to improve it; when clearly these documents show, that they too are just a 'business' and in the name of making a profit, namely from the traders... read it for yourselves.

I Ask the council and the architects this question?

"What is Newgate's' current footfall?, and how much will it increase after renovation (& not just the initial 'honeymoon' euphoria period!).

If they are talking about increasing the footfall, or bettering it... one has to know what the 'status quo'; so that there is something to measure against.

But nowhere after all these years will they have ANY data on how many folks visit Newgate:

a) on average; on what day of the week.

b) on average; in any given month.

c) how many on average visit Newgate when the Events markets are on in Parliament St.

(I'm not talking about having EXACT figures, just something 'ball-park' would be useful?)

The trouble is once again, this kind of 'relative' information would be scary to the council, because it would show/highlight the reality.

The reality is though, that they have never cared about these figures, and do not have these figures available (which shows nobody cares); because, they don't matter... "Hey, we still collect the rent" from Newgate & Event markets... it's wonderful"...who cares what the footfall is".

Talk about "having your cake & eating it".

"Win Win" "Double Wammie"

It's all in the reading of the documents mentioned...

It is just as well, these folks don't run their own business's, and have the luxury of spending public money; otherwise they would have been out of business a long time ago. But they know how to take the traders money..., and show a healthy profit which is what really counts eh? (regardless of what the footfall is!)

At least Dick Turpin had the 'honour and respect' to wear a mask ;-)

Happy reading...

Another_Twopenneth
[quote][p][bold]Dave Taylor[/bold] wrote: It would be a shame if the extensive comments of "Just_My_Twopen neth" are lost. Please send it in 'properly' to the consultation or as a letter to the Council.[/p][/quote]Thanks Dave for your sentiment: But if folks aren't sure that Newgate is seen primarily as a 'locals' market... by the council; which everybody else knows it is anyway (apart from those making money from the contract, and those wanting to leave a legacy) really need to be reading reports such as the downloadable 'pdf' files (Adobe Acrobat documents) at the foot of the following web page. Even tells you how much they plan to increase the traders rent to recoup the money... I'm sure they will be well 'chuffed' with that, as they say in Yarkshire ;-) [Cut/Copy & Paste the link into your Browser] http://democracy.yor k.gov.uk/ieDecisionD etails.aspx?AIId=297 28 Where point 10 (amongst a whole lot of other interesting stuff in the main report) states, that the key deliverables are to deliver: • A market that continues to provide a retail offer for local residents (especially high quality fresh food) whilst at the same time becoming a destination for visitors • A market that is popular with existing traders whilst stimulating new business start ups and attracts new traders to enhance the quality of the offer It's all there in black and white the main document being the first one in the list, (Newgate Market) [Cut/Copy & Paste the link into your Browser] http://democracy.yor k.gov.uk/documents/s 76928/Newgate%20Mark et.pdf but the others are also interesting, if you really want to get a view of how the council see things. It's all valid for public information/consumpt ion, in black and white, undeniable and recorded online, and there is plenty more info/words where that came from. The traders (very important to them) and public really ought to be reading these, as all the info has been regurgitated many times, over & over in the past. But words are cheap; it's actions that count. It's all about how much the council are currently making from the traders, how they will recoup the money being spent on the renovation, without any reality (simply conjecture all over the place) regarding how they will are going to bring customers and footfall, to a market, that is up against the additional extra money that the council take from the increasing frequency of Parliament St/Specialist Events. Do these folks really live in the real world?, anyone would think these councillors and market operatives, and "qualified architects" (regarding Newgate Market renovation meetings) are experts regarding market trading, understanding Newgate's poor footfall, and how they are going to improve it; when clearly these documents show, that they too are just a 'business' and in the name of making a profit, namely from the traders... read it for yourselves. I Ask the council and the architects this question? "What is Newgate's' current footfall?, and how much will it increase after renovation (& not just the initial 'honeymoon' euphoria period!). If they are talking about increasing the footfall, or bettering it... one has to know what the 'status quo'; so that there is something to measure against. But nowhere after all these years will they have ANY data on how many folks visit Newgate: a) on average; on what day of the week. b) on average; in any given month. c) how many on average visit Newgate when the Events markets are on in Parliament St. (I'm not talking about having EXACT figures, just something 'ball-park' would be useful?) The trouble is once again, this kind of 'relative' information would be scary to the council, because it would show/highlight the reality. The reality is though, that they have never cared about these figures, and do not have these figures available (which shows nobody cares); because, they don't matter... "Hey, we still collect the rent" from Newgate & Event markets... it's wonderful"...who cares what the footfall is". Talk about "having your cake & eating it". "Win Win" "Double Wammie" It's all in the reading of the documents mentioned... It is just as well, these folks don't run their own business's, and have the luxury of spending public money; otherwise they would have been out of business a long time ago. But they know how to take the traders money..., and show a healthy profit which is what really counts eh? (regardless of what the footfall is!) At least Dick Turpin had the 'honour and respect' to wear a mask ;-) Happy reading... Another_Twopenneth Just_My_Twopenneth

7:49pm Fri 24 Jan 14

Just_My_Twopenneth says...

Apologies the web links in my above post came out oddly...

Through to no fault of my own I might add, as when I pasted them, they were all in one line:

Blinkin' Computers...

So here they are again for clarity:

http://democracy.yor
k.gov.uk/ieDecisionD
etails.aspx?AIId=297
28

http://democracy.yor
k.gov.uk/documents/s
76928/Newgate%20Mark
et.pdf
Apologies the web links in my above post came out oddly... Through to no fault of my own I might add, as when I pasted them, they were all in one line: Blinkin' Computers... So here they are again for clarity: http://democracy.yor k.gov.uk/ieDecisionD etails.aspx?AIId=297 28 http://democracy.yor k.gov.uk/documents/s 76928/Newgate%20Mark et.pdf Just_My_Twopenneth

7:53pm Fri 24 Jan 14

Just_My_Twopenneth says...

Drat... it doesn't work on this website, it's something to do with putting 'web links into this forum.

Simply put everything onto the same line, without any spaces the (newline/carriage-re
turn feeds, which this forum is somehow adding in itself??); and you'll be there.
Drat... it doesn't work on this website, it's something to do with putting 'web links into this forum. Simply put everything onto the same line, without any spaces the (newline/carriage-re turn feeds, which this forum is somehow adding in itself??); and you'll be there. Just_My_Twopenneth

1:23am Sat 25 Jan 14

Dave Ruddock says...

Just_My_Twopenneth u a council official.

Point to council , its a Street Market not a super douper fanct market, and definatley no seating areas, the consulting company, Are there any pilories in the market, there should me for theses consultants and councilors , better control of traders be better, Use Fossgate as over spill, oh consultation fee is £1000 please
Just_My_Twopenneth u a council official. Point to council , its a Street Market not a super douper fanct market, and definatley no seating areas, the consulting company, Are there any pilories in the market, there should me for theses consultants and councilors , better control of traders be better, Use Fossgate as over spill, oh consultation fee is £1000 please Dave Ruddock

7:03am Sat 25 Jan 14

Bauman Lyons says...

Goodmorning to all traders setting up this morning at Newgate Market.You have made us feel very welcomed yesterday which we really appreciate.
And thanks to all who came to talk to us yesterday and all who are contributing comments above.
We will be at the market again today from 11 till 14 and hope to meet many more people and share your insightful and helpful viewpoints.

Irena
Goodmorning to all traders setting up this morning at Newgate Market.You have made us feel very welcomed yesterday which we really appreciate. And thanks to all who came to talk to us yesterday and all who are contributing comments above. We will be at the market again today from 11 till 14 and hope to meet many more people and share your insightful and helpful viewpoints. Irena Bauman Lyons

10:19am Sat 25 Jan 14

Just_My_Twopenneth says...

Dave Ruddock wrote:
Just_My_Twopenneth u a council official.

Point to council , its a Street Market not a super douper fanct market, and definatley no seating areas, the consulting company, Are there any pilories in the market, there should me for theses consultants and councilors , better control of traders be better, Use Fossgate as over spill, oh consultation fee is £1000 please
Dave, are you or have you read my posts here fully?

The reason I say that is... You are asking if I am a council worker?

Clearly not, if you have taken the time to read them.

I've been insulted before, but to accuse me of being a Council Worker is a little below the belt.
[quote][p][bold]Dave Ruddock[/bold] wrote: Just_My_Twopenneth u a council official. Point to council , its a Street Market not a super douper fanct market, and definatley no seating areas, the consulting company, Are there any pilories in the market, there should me for theses consultants and councilors , better control of traders be better, Use Fossgate as over spill, oh consultation fee is £1000 please[/p][/quote]Dave, are you or have you read my posts here fully? The reason I say that is... You are asking if I am a council worker? Clearly not, if you have taken the time to read them. I've been insulted before, but to accuse me of being a Council Worker is a little below the belt. Just_My_Twopenneth

10:57am Sat 25 Jan 14

Just_My_Twopenneth says...

Bauman Lyons wrote:
Goodmorning to all traders setting up this morning at Newgate Market.You have made us feel very welcomed yesterday which we really appreciate.
And thanks to all who came to talk to us yesterday and all who are contributing comments above.
We will be at the market again today from 11 till 14 and hope to meet many more people and share your insightful and helpful viewpoints.

Irena
Well Done Irena,

So you are today's stool pigeon.

Big day for you today then 11 til 3 eh; & on a Saturday too.

If Bauman Lyons don't know what the issues with Newgate are already, it shows that they haven't done their homework properly, and you are supposed to be professional, & be responsible for the Newgate overhaul!

Well let me add this, you won't get anything from standing out in the rain for a couple of days with traders; that can't agree on where they want the market to go forward; most of them don't even talk to or trust each other; & you think you can suddenly become their best mate, pretending to listen to them, once they have stood outside for years.

The traders are their to do exactly that 'trade'; or to vie for trade; hence not having real quality time to discuss their points of view! Get real. It's their livelihoods that come first, hence they need to he touting for business. You don't.

Still, I guess you'll witness that their are empty stalls about, & poor footfall, which as all the traders will at least agree on one thing regarding that; and that is that you spending of £1.5 Million is NOT going to increase the footfall.
You could spend ten times that, and the footfall won't increase!

Still, you (Bauman Lyons) have to go through the political exercise of standing out with them for a couple of days; so you can tick that box as done/complete, (lip-service paid) then get back to completing the agenda for Newgate, that yourselves and the council which no doubt will pretty much be a done deal.

Footfall, how do you intend to improve it? You can write your info here, it's free, so tell the traders here, & that might give them some faith that this isn't simply
A cash generating scheme for Bauman Lyons.

They need footfall, not words or 'were are listening'
[quote][p][bold]Bauman Lyons[/bold] wrote: Goodmorning to all traders setting up this morning at Newgate Market.You have made us feel very welcomed yesterday which we really appreciate. And thanks to all who came to talk to us yesterday and all who are contributing comments above. We will be at the market again today from 11 till 14 and hope to meet many more people and share your insightful and helpful viewpoints. Irena[/p][/quote]Well Done Irena, So you are today's stool pigeon. Big day for you today then 11 til 3 eh; & on a Saturday too. If Bauman Lyons don't know what the issues with Newgate are already, it shows that they haven't done their homework properly, and you are supposed to be professional, & be responsible for the Newgate overhaul! Well let me add this, you won't get anything from standing out in the rain for a couple of days with traders; that can't agree on where they want the market to go forward; most of them don't even talk to or trust each other; & you think you can suddenly become their best mate, pretending to listen to them, once they have stood outside for years. The traders are their to do exactly that 'trade'; or to vie for trade; hence not having real quality time to discuss their points of view! Get real. It's their livelihoods that come first, hence they need to he touting for business. You don't. Still, I guess you'll witness that their are empty stalls about, & poor footfall, which as all the traders will at least agree on one thing regarding that; and that is that you spending of £1.5 Million is NOT going to increase the footfall. You could spend ten times that, and the footfall won't increase! Still, you (Bauman Lyons) have to go through the political exercise of standing out with them for a couple of days; so you can tick that box as done/complete, (lip-service paid) then get back to completing the agenda for Newgate, that yourselves and the council which no doubt will pretty much be a done deal. Footfall, how do you intend to improve it? You can write your info here, it's free, so tell the traders here, & that might give them some faith that this isn't simply A cash generating scheme for Bauman Lyons. They need footfall, not words or 'were are listening' Just_My_Twopenneth

9:20pm Sat 25 Jan 14

Considering Matters says...

So you think the market is rubbish, and I can see it needs some serious help, but you don't appear to want anything done to improve it in any way. Perhaps you might be able to come up with some suggestions of your own, possibly even just one idea, even one that is remotely positive. Maybe give it a try, just this once and instead of insulting people, you may be surprised how much better you could feel!
So you think the market is rubbish, and I can see it needs some serious help, but you don't appear to want anything done to improve it in any way. Perhaps you might be able to come up with some suggestions of your own, possibly even just one idea, even one that is remotely positive. Maybe give it a try, just this once and instead of insulting people, you may be surprised how much better you could feel! Considering Matters

6:00pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Just_My_Twopenneth says...

Considering matters, I can only assume that you are addressing myself.

I have insulted nobody or been personal (which your tone appears personal, but OK, maybe you can't help that?), I have merely pointed out that the traders are going to be the ones that suffer, more than they already do, regardless of how much is spent on the market; unless you were missing my crux? I have also shown evidence, in the way of the links for the attached documents.

However to answer to question, as requested:

One idea to improve the market, would be to remove the overflowing council bins that reside most days (for long parts of the day) at the end of Silver St, Also remove them from the lovely "Gert & Henry's" grade listed building, as they are smelly, attract flies and simply look unsightly.

Another idea, would be to remove some of the stalls to allow more daylight into the market, making it more welcoming and less ominous looking to venture into.

Onwards and upwards, install some high brightness LED (i.e. low power, but extensive light output) to all the stalls (making them switchable of course, if the stall is vacated/unused), this would look much better, than the myriad and array, of power guzzling varieties of lighting that the traders tend to use. This would offer a consistent look to the market, and also SAVE money. It would also direct the light onto the product, rather than in omnidirectional directions, as per is the case with the old (but much used) incandescent light bulbs.

Signpost the market from the 'Shambles' via the little snickets and alleyways, to make folk venture into Newgate, for a least a 'peak' (as a lot of folks that visit the Shambles, won't even know there is a market alongside/behind, as they'll simply often go from Pavement to Kings Square (along the Shambles), or visa-versa, without knowledge of Newgate, signing the snickets and ginnels would help tremendously. I couldn't possible see any harm in this, also an 'attractive welcoming' t the end of Silver St (promoting Newgate Market would be useful, as you can't see the 'extents' of the market from that viewpoint.

These solutions, would increase footfall, and therefore help trade.

They wouldn't require an overhaul, and huge amounts of money wasted. On the contrary, the lighting idea would save the (Watts/KVA) being burned at the moment, and be brighter, so a 'win win' (double wammy) for the council and the trader there.

There are plenty more simple improvements that could be made, for little cost, to improve the footfall, whilst retaining that genuine market feel.

The £1.5Million overhaul will however not achieve this.

Sometimes 'tickling' a problem (i.e. small steps), can give much improved results to throwing a load of finance at it.

I hope I have to some degree answered your reservations. I repeat, the intention was no to insult anyone, which I believe was the case, but to prove that the traders were the ones who are currently suffering at Newgate, are going to suffer further (i.e. if you've read the links, which contain the minutes of meetings; it all in there) are going to suffer yet further still.

So I put the same question to you... effectively, if you had £1.5Million sat around in your back pocket, do you think you would throw it towards a set of professional architects to re-plan the market? (taking the current high street austerity culture into consideration) I would say it's a market, and should look like market, but just needs some simple tweeks here and there.

There is a good saying in business...

Keep It Simple....

I rest my case some more....

Heck if I keep on putting in my two_penneth, I'll soon be skint ;-)

Good day to you sir/madam.

I look forward to your response.
Considering matters, I can only assume that you are addressing myself. I have insulted nobody or been personal (which your tone appears personal, but OK, maybe you can't help that?), I have merely pointed out that the traders are going to be the ones that suffer, more than they already do, regardless of how much is spent on the market; unless you were missing my crux? I have also shown evidence, in the way of the links for the attached documents. However to answer to question, as requested: One idea to improve the market, would be to remove the overflowing council bins that reside most days (for long parts of the day) at the end of Silver St, Also remove them from the lovely "Gert & Henry's" grade listed building, as they are smelly, attract flies and simply look unsightly. Another idea, would be to remove some of the stalls to allow more daylight into the market, making it more welcoming and less ominous looking to venture into. Onwards and upwards, install some high brightness LED (i.e. low power, but extensive light output) to all the stalls (making them switchable of course, if the stall is vacated/unused), this would look much better, than the myriad and array, of power guzzling varieties of lighting that the traders tend to use. This would offer a consistent look to the market, and also SAVE money. It would also direct the light onto the product, rather than in omnidirectional directions, as per is the case with the old (but much used) incandescent light bulbs. Signpost the market from the 'Shambles' via the little snickets and alleyways, to make folk venture into Newgate, for a least a 'peak' (as a lot of folks that visit the Shambles, won't even know there is a market alongside/behind, as they'll simply often go from Pavement to Kings Square (along the Shambles), or visa-versa, without knowledge of Newgate, signing the snickets and ginnels would help tremendously. I couldn't possible see any harm in this, also an 'attractive welcoming' t the end of Silver St (promoting Newgate Market would be useful, as you can't see the 'extents' of the market from that viewpoint. These solutions, would increase footfall, and therefore help trade. They wouldn't require an overhaul, and huge amounts of money wasted. On the contrary, the lighting idea would save the (Watts/KVA) being burned at the moment, and be brighter, so a 'win win' (double wammy) for the council and the trader there. There are plenty more simple improvements that could be made, for little cost, to improve the footfall, whilst retaining that genuine market feel. The £1.5Million overhaul will however not achieve this. Sometimes 'tickling' a problem (i.e. small steps), can give much improved results to throwing a load of finance at it. I hope I have to some degree answered your reservations. I repeat, the intention was no to insult anyone, which I believe was the case, but to prove that the traders were the ones who are currently suffering at Newgate, are going to suffer further (i.e. if you've read the links, which contain the minutes of meetings; it all in there) are going to suffer yet further still. So I put the same question to you... effectively, if you had £1.5Million sat around in your back pocket, do you think you would throw it towards a set of professional architects to re-plan the market? (taking the current high street austerity culture into consideration) I would say it's a market, and should look like market, but just needs some simple tweeks here and there. There is a good saying in business... Keep It Simple.... I rest my case some more.... Heck if I keep on putting in my two_penneth, I'll soon be skint ;-) Good day to you sir/madam. I look forward to your response. Just_My_Twopenneth

10:48pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Considering Matters says...

Well, in my very humble opinion, this is so much better, and, my thoughts were not directed at your personally, especially as I could see you had given this matter great consideration,but just the tone of this thread generally. You have some very constructive ideas, and whether I agree with them or not (and actually I do agree with most of your 'ideas & suggestions' ) I just feel it would be more productive if people who consider situations (and I don't just mean this market) would perhaps just come up with some ideas. Then with ideas things can be moved forward - negatives rarely achieve much. Anyway, I appreciate your response. As to whether I would give money to consultants, the answer is, yes and I would choose very wisely. I do not think the Council are sufficiently experienced to do this stuff and I'm afraid you would probably never get all traders to agree on a way forward. It appears some don't want anything done at all (whilst the market dies around them!) I personally think the market is a total eyesore in the centre of this wonderful city, so would be great if people gave their feedback to the consultation and perhaps some 'ideas'
Well, in my very humble opinion, this is so much better, and, my thoughts were not directed at your personally, especially as I could see you had given this matter great consideration,but just the tone of this thread generally. You have some very constructive ideas, and whether I agree with them or not (and actually I do agree with most of your 'ideas & suggestions' ) I just feel it would be more productive if people who consider situations (and I don't just mean this market) would perhaps just come up with some ideas. Then with ideas things can be moved forward - negatives rarely achieve much. Anyway, I appreciate your response. As to whether I would give money to consultants, the answer is, yes and I would choose very wisely. I do not think the Council are sufficiently experienced to do this stuff and I'm afraid you would probably never get all traders to agree on a way forward. It appears some don't want anything done at all (whilst the market dies around them!) I personally think the market is a total eyesore in the centre of this wonderful city, so would be great if people gave their feedback to the consultation and perhaps some 'ideas' Considering Matters

5:03pm Wed 29 Jan 14

meme says...

York is famous for its quaintness and history and therefore the new market need to reflect that image not become a modern brash place
design in some quirkiness to make sure its somewhere special and not a repeat of a modern functional market anywhere in the country
make it a place people want to visit including tourists so give it a feature that people want to see then they go into area and spend money in stalls. same principle as having a holding tenant in a shopping centre ie department store. if the wheel was not as big that would get people in !! statue of Richard 1 there possibly? Replica of Viking helmet? or even a Viking? set od stocks etc? there must be something that people would want to visit
A an aside, I have nothing against Leeds architects as I am sure they are very nice people but, is there not one architect in York our council could have given the work to thereby supporting local business? [I am not an architect!!} I think their catchphrase is 'get York working' This is not a good example is it?
York is famous for its quaintness and history and therefore the new market need to reflect that image not become a modern brash place design in some quirkiness to make sure its somewhere special and not a repeat of a modern functional market anywhere in the country make it a place people want to visit including tourists so give it a feature that people want to see then they go into area and spend money in stalls. same principle as having a holding tenant in a shopping centre ie department store. if the wheel was not as big that would get people in !! statue of Richard 1 there possibly? Replica of Viking helmet? or even a Viking? set od stocks etc? there must be something that people would want to visit A an aside, I have nothing against Leeds architects as I am sure they are very nice people but, is there not one architect in York our council could have given the work to thereby supporting local business? [I am not an architect!!} I think their catchphrase is 'get York working' This is not a good example is it? meme

10:51pm Wed 29 Jan 14

Considering Matters says...

Meme - I thought your post with some 'ideas' was great. IMHO more ideas the better. Hope people will feedback to the Architects Consultation. That is what a Consultation is - say what you like and what you don't. And I hope the traders and the architects are able to get together and come up with a plan that works for the majority, including traders, shoppers, locals & visitors and to have something to be proud of in that fantastic location. Yes, I totally agree that it should be sympathetic to its historic surroundings, but I don't agree with the view that nothing should be done. As to the Architects coming from Leeds, well I take your point and had it been London I would minded, but I don't want to get too parochial, it is Yorkshire.
Meme - I thought your post with some 'ideas' was great. IMHO more ideas the better. Hope people will feedback to the Architects Consultation. That is what a Consultation is - say what you like and what you don't. And I hope the traders and the architects are able to get together and come up with a plan that works for the majority, including traders, shoppers, locals & visitors and to have something to be proud of in that fantastic location. Yes, I totally agree that it should be sympathetic to its historic surroundings, but I don't agree with the view that nothing should be done. As to the Architects coming from Leeds, well I take your point and had it been London I would minded, but I don't want to get too parochial, it is Yorkshire. Considering Matters

11:18pm Wed 29 Jan 14

Bauman Lyons says...

Just to let you know that the discussions over the three days of the weekend were very engaging, productive and enlightening. People were generous with their comments and many new ideas and a lot of history was shared and collated .
I am tracking all your comments on these pages too, so thank you so much for taking the time over this.
We have also opened project room at 5 Silver Street, York where we will hold Monday evenings open meetings from the 3rd of February for 2 months. at 17.30-19. It would be so good if you could pop in and discuss the plans with all the others as they develop.
Because we are based in Leeds we invited a York based architect to work with us to make sure that the knowledge and the love of the city informs all architectural decisions. There is no need to be angry with us- we are trying to understand what is needed and do a good job. Irena
Just to let you know that the discussions over the three days of the weekend were very engaging, productive and enlightening. People were generous with their comments and many new ideas and a lot of history was shared and collated . I am tracking all your comments on these pages too, so thank you so much for taking the time over this. We have also opened project room at 5 Silver Street, York where we will hold Monday evenings open meetings from the 3rd of February for 2 months. at 17.30-19. It would be so good if you could pop in and discuss the plans with all the others as they develop. Because we are based in Leeds we invited a York based architect to work with us to make sure that the knowledge and the love of the city informs all architectural decisions. There is no need to be angry with us- we are trying to understand what is needed and do a good job. Irena Bauman Lyons

11:22am Thu 30 Jan 14

meme says...

I think the Leeds architects are very good to comment on this page openly and admit they listen to these comments
Lets se what they come up with but I ask them to be brave and make it a place to visit as well as shop. Footfall is the answer to trading success so it must have something other than stalls to attract the public
I think the Leeds architects are very good to comment on this page openly and admit they listen to these comments Lets se what they come up with but I ask them to be brave and make it a place to visit as well as shop. Footfall is the answer to trading success so it must have something other than stalls to attract the public meme

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