With pensions back in the news again, we ask for two opposing views on the question...

"Yes," says Hugh Bayley, Labour MP for York

PENSIONERS need more money and I will champion their cause. When I was social security minister we increased pensions by more than inflation, and that continues. Since we defeated the Conservatives we have:

u introduced winter fuel payments worth £200 (almost £4 a week) and £300 (£6 a week) for over-80s;

u raised the basic state pension to £77.45 for single pensioners and £123.80 for couples - an extra £5 and £8 for all pensioners on top of inflation;

u provided four million pensioner households with free TV licences (worth £112 a year);

u increased the state pension every year by 2.5 per cent or inflation, whichever is higher;

u given free eye tests for all pensioners;

u and introduced the first national half-fare travel concession for all pensioners.

But we have done more than this, because we've targeted extra money on the poorest pensioners - the ones who need most help. Under the Tories, the basic state pension was £62.45 a week. Labour's Minimum Income Guarantee brings pensioner incomes up to £102.10 a week for singles and £155.80 for couples. One-fifth of pensioners in Yorkshire can get this extra help.

If we had used the earning link to share the money equally among all pensioners, the poorest would have got only a fifth of the increase - £8 rather than £40 extra a week.

But what about pensioners with small private pensions or savings who are just above benefits level? It's not fair, so we have created the new pension credit to help pensioners who saved or paid into a works pension. Two-thirds of pensioner households in Yorkshire are eligible for the new credit, worth £400 a year on average. To find out more, call the freephone helpline: 0800 991 234.

I agree that council tax rises are a problem. Under Labour control, York had the lowest council tax in Yorkshire - lower than any Liberal Democrat or Tory council - but still York's Band D tax went up £3.68 a week over the last two years. York's share of the increase is about half the total - the rest went to the police and parishes. Tories and Liberal Democrats between them control all the parish councils and the police authority, and now the Liberal Democrats control City of York Council where they have pushed up spending by £2 million.

The Labour government's reforms over the past six years have put extra money into all pensioners' pockets. We are now spending £9.2 billion extra per year on pensioners. This is £5.7 billion more than if the basic state pension had been linked to earnings. In Parliament the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives opposed the pension credit, and many of Labour's other increases for pensioners too.

But has Labour got it right? Should we have given more to all pensioners, and less to the poorest, who are mainly widows who never had the chance to earn a pension in their own right? Write to me at 59 Holgate Road, York YO24 4AA to tell me what you think.

"No," says Don Parlabean, Chairman, York Older People's Assembly.

THIS Government proudly boasts of what it is doing for the pensioner - everything but give them a proper pension, it would seem. Free eye tests are not much use if you can't afford new glasses.

They boast of giving £200 for winter fuel, but it gets used to pay higher council tax instead. And have you tried to find a National Health Service dentist?

The majority of today's pensioners left school aged 14 or 15 and have worked hard and paid towards a pension all their lives.

Not for them two or three years at college with a gap year to chase kangaroos before going on to university. If they had a gap year it was to serve in the armed forces.

So why not pay them their due rights, the pension they were promised? They should retire with dignity, not go cap in hand for handouts.

Pension credits, or call them what you may, are still a means test. A vast number of pensioners will be too proud to apply for credits and many more will find it too confusing to apply. How much is all this administration costing? That alone would go towards a better pension.

John Prescott recently said there is no more money available and if pensions were increased the fat cats would get it as well.

That is no reason to keep pensioners below the poverty line, John. If £102 is seen to be the minimum needed to live on, that should be the basic pension.

The Government said there was no money to increase nurses', doctors', and teachers' pay, but ways to give them above-inflation pay rises year after year were found when they had no choice.

There was no money to pay the firemen 40 per cent but the pensioners still had to watch them reluctantly settle for 16 per cent when pensions went up by only 1.7 per cent.

Will the council tax, gas, electricity, house maintenance, and garage repair costs go up by under 1.7 per cent? I think not.

And when did the Government last award themselves only 1.7 per cent?

This Government needs to remember that the grey voters put them in, and the grey vote can remove them.

With 25 per cent of the population of pension age, and 25 per cent of the population being too young to vote, this puts the pensioners' vote at about one third of the total.

Many young voters don't bother to turn out, which puts the grey voters into a very strong position, possibly nearly 50 per cent of the votes cast. There's no need to go on strike when you have that sort of power.

Whatever happened to the older people's charter, "Pensioners will share in the rising prosperity of the nation"? They could make it happen.

The Older People's Assembly is a non-political organisation. These are not politically motivated comments, but facts. So come on, Tony - we have all paid our dues, let's see the money.

Updated: 11:17 Wednesday, October 08, 2003