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City unveils plans for new £40m civic headquarters
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| City of York Council's head of property services, describes the new HQ as "iconic" |
TAKE a look at York's new civic headquarters.
City of York Council has unveiled the first images of its landmark new £40 million offices at Hungate, in the east of the city centre.
At a media briefing yesterday, the authority's head of property services, Neil Hindhaugh, hailed the "iconic" building, which will house 1,400 employees.
The eco-friendly design includes a green roof, rainwater-harvesting system and a raft of other environmentally-friendly features.
Mr Hindhaugh said it was a challenge to come up with a building appropriate for York.
He said: "We wanted something iconic; a building special to York."
The building is designed by RMJM architects, who have previously worked on the Scottish Parliament, the University of York, and the world headquarters of Glaxo, in Brentford.
Chris Jones, the firm's project director, said the building was "incredibly successful as a piece of 21st-century architecture".
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| A model of the new council headquarters on display in the Mansion House |
He hailed its open and eco-friendly lay-out, and said: "It's a building about people. It is customer focussed and has to be welcoming and accessible, but it also has to serve 1,400 staff."
A planning submission is due to be submitted within weeks, and it is hoped the building will be ready by 2010.
It will bring almost all council services under one roof, replacing 16 buildings around the city. Mr Hindhaugh said that no amount of money could make those buildings fit for purpose, and said relocating to a purpose-built headquarters was the only sensible long-term option.
The building will have five storeys, and will be about 20 metres high. There will also be a 28-metre, seven-storey bio-tower, encompassing various pieces of sustainable energy technology. Mr Hindhaugh said it was the modern-day equivalent of a bell-tower.
The main building will have a large open space in the centre, and is heavily glazed to create a transparent and light building, which will also offer spectacular panoramic views over the city.
Ceredig Jamieson-Ball, the council's executive member for corporate services, said the council would now consult with the public, before submitting a planning application later in the spring.
He said English Heritage and conservation groups had already been involved, and the building would meet the highest environmental standards.
GAVIN AITCHISON and JENNY BELL gauged reaction to the proposed new council offices
Phillip Thake, chief executive of York Conservation Trust, said: "I appreciate it's got to be something relatively modern, but you can still have modern and traditional - such as the Norwich Union building.
"This is just a square box. It looks extremely boring. I am gob-smacked by the blandness of it all - you expect more from a city like York.
"It is very large and imposing and at such a large scale that it will dwarf the surrounding buildings.
"I don't like it at all and I completely oppose it."
David Scott, leader of the Labour opposition on the council, said: "The design is not as spectacular as I would have hoped for."
But he said it was important to focus on getting a building that served its purpose while not exceeding the council's budget, adding: "I do not think people would want us spending twice as much as we have."
He said English Heritage loved the design.
Ceredig Jamieson-Ball, the council's executive member for corporate services said: "I think it's an impressive building that, when some of the comments are taken on board, the city can be proud of for years to come."
Councillor Janet Looker said:
"With a lot of constraints, it has not done too badly as a modern building in a very, very tricky situation.
"You have listed buildings opposite, and the Black Swan next door, so it's got to fit into quite a complex area, but I think it's got some very positive things going for it."
Philip Crowe, who chairs the campaigning group York Tomorrow, but said he was speaking in a personal capacity, said: "My initial impression would be that it is not a very friendly building.
"It's essential that it appeals to the residents of York who will be coming to the building for advice and so on. I don't feel that this is the right way forward.
"Certainly the attempt to avoid any pastiche solution is to be applauded, but I do feel that a reconsideration of the massing of the building, particularly along the Stonebow frontage, would be worth considering."
11:03am Wednesday 5th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: Stephen, York on 11:09am Wed 5 Mar 08
"The eco-friendly design includes a green roof, rainwater-harvesting system and a raft of other environmentally-frie
ndly features."
Just another palacial hot air harvestor.
"The eco-friendly design includes a green roof, rainwater-harvesting system and a raft of other environmentally-frie
ndly features."
Just another palacial hot air harvestor.
Posted by: ataxidriver, york on 11:11am Wed 5 Mar 08
oh dear what an eye sore, would be great up at monks cross, what a waste of £40 million
oh dear what an eye sore, would be great up at monks cross, what a waste of £40 million
Posted by: marc on 11:15am Wed 5 Mar 08
It reminds me of some 60s building that other towns are demolishing.
It reminds me of some 60s building that other towns are demolishing.
Posted by: AdmiralN, York Centre on 11:18am Wed 5 Mar 08
The building is designed by RMJM architects, who have previously worked on the Scottish Parliament, the University of York, and the world headquarters of Glaxo, in Brentford.
hmmm we were a contractor on the scottish parliments building and the architects were well, lets just say that they didnt know there ar$e from their elbow!
The building is designed by RMJM architects, who have previously worked on the Scottish Parliament, the University of York, and the world headquarters of Glaxo, in Brentford.
hmmm we were a contractor on the scottish parliments building and the architects were well, lets just say that they didnt know there ar$e from their elbow!
Posted by: Nomadic, York on 11:19am Wed 5 Mar 08
Stonebow is an eyesore, so I know, lets build another one!
Stonebow is an eyesore, so I know, lets build another one!
Posted by: Dave Taylor, Fishergate, York on 11:21am Wed 5 Mar 08
Oh no! It looks like a Council building all right! It looks as deeply unattractive and impersonal as a Council building thrown up by joyless mordernists in the 1960s. Have the architects taken Stonebow House as their cue for the design?
I'm appalled that we don't seem to have moved on when the potential for exciting modern architecture is out there.
The green roof, rainwater harvesting and heating/cooling mechanisms are to be welcomed, but York deserves better than another cruddy concrete box.
Oh no! It looks like a Council building all right! It looks as deeply unattractive and impersonal as a Council building thrown up by joyless mordernists in the 1960s. Have the architects taken Stonebow House as their cue for the design?
I'm appalled that we don't seem to have moved on when the potential for exciting modern architecture is out there.
The green roof, rainwater harvesting and heating/cooling mechanisms are to be welcomed, but York deserves better than another cruddy concrete box.
Posted by: hustler, York on 11:29am Wed 5 Mar 08
Looks like something York University forgot to build ! One step forward and two back, as ever, with the council.
Looks like something York University forgot to build ! One step forward and two back, as ever, with the council.
Posted by: Lt.Dobie, York-ish on 12:13pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Hustler & Dave Taylor~ spot on! I was gonna say a 60s Polytechnic!!
Poor old Pub next door!
Hustler & Dave Taylor~ spot on! I was gonna say a 60s Polytechnic!!
Poor old Pub next door!
Posted by: franky, york on 12:19pm Wed 5 Mar 08
It's very square and boxy... kind of like Stonebow house which is an eyesore.
I would have preferred modern but a bit more sympathetic to the city - something more like the Norwich Union building near Lendal Bridge.
It's very square and boxy... kind of like Stonebow house which is an eyesore.
I would have preferred modern but a bit more sympathetic to the city - something more like the Norwich Union building near Lendal Bridge.
Posted by: MichaelRutherford, York on 12:22pm Wed 5 Mar 08
I think this is based on the old Telephone Exchange on Stonebow.
Sadly I think it would be easier to convert that building to being beautiful and modern than this new council one.
Maybe in reality with the upper bits of glass shining and looking less concretey it'll look better but I am sceptical.
I think this is based on the old Telephone Exchange on Stonebow.
Sadly I think it would be easier to convert that building to being beautiful and modern than this new council one.
Maybe in reality with the upper bits of glass shining and looking less concretey it'll look better but I am sceptical.
Posted by: Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall on 12:31pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Dave Taylor[/bold] wrote:
Oh no! It looks like a Council building all right! It looks as deeply unattractive and impersonal as a Council building thrown up by joyless mordernists in the 1960s. Have the architects taken Stonebow House as their cue for the design? I'm appalled that we don't seem to have moved on when the potential for exciting modern architecture is out there. The green roof, rainwater harvesting and heating/cooling mechanisms are to be welcomed, but York deserves better than another cruddy concrete box.[/quote] Good on you Dave.
How about my suggestion, scrap Hungate and move into the old Terry's buildings. The infrastructure is there as well as the parking? Can you put a motion forward?
All you'd need to do would be to subsidize a frequent bus service for customers from the centre of town up to Terry's.
This proposal is sensible and will save an awful lot of money.
Remember, these architects were responsible for the horrendous waste of money on the Scottish Parliament building - Hungate will be more than 38 million. The last thing York needs is a taxpayers revolt.
Dave Taylor wrote:
Oh no! It looks like a Council building all right! It looks as deeply unattractive and impersonal as a Council building thrown up by joyless mordernists in the 1960s. Have the architects taken Stonebow House as their cue for the design? I'm appalled that we don't seem to have moved on when the potential for exciting modern architecture is out there. The green roof, rainwater harvesting and heating/cooling mechanisms are to be welcomed, but York deserves better than another cruddy concrete box.
Good on you Dave.
How about my suggestion, scrap Hungate and move into the old Terry's buildings. The infrastructure is there as well as the parking? Can you put a motion forward?
All you'd need to do would be to subsidize a frequent bus service for customers from the centre of town up to Terry's.
This proposal is sensible and will save an awful lot of money.
Remember, these architects were responsible for the horrendous waste of money on the Scottish Parliament building - Hungate will be more than 38 million. The last thing York needs is a taxpayers revolt.
Posted by: meme, york on 12:35pm Wed 5 Mar 08
I'm amodernist but frankly this is overpowering, bland and downright ugly.
I would rather the Council blew the budget and created something York could really be proud of for many years to come rather than a dull 60s box that is a replica of the new council offices in Middlesbrough which are about to be replaced already
Its not right for York
I would also ike too know where the pedestrian Plaza has sprung up from The impression is taken from St saviourgate and thats a road and it will NEVER look like this
I'm amodernist but frankly this is overpowering, bland and downright ugly.
I would rather the Council blew the budget and created something York could really be proud of for many years to come rather than a dull 60s box that is a replica of the new council offices in Middlesbrough which are about to be replaced already
Its not right for York
I would also ike too know where the pedestrian Plaza has sprung up from The impression is taken from St saviourgate and thats a road and it will NEVER look like this
Posted by: delboy, York on 12:38pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Will the raft be used in summer for tourists to sail the Ouse?? If so, it will be a money spinner and that's for sure!!
Will the raft be used in summer for tourists to sail the Ouse?? If so, it will be a money spinner and that's for sure!!
Posted by: BL on 12:38pm Wed 5 Mar 08
I've been told that they were offered one of the DEFRA buildings next to the site which will be unoccupied and will have already been refurbished. On top of that it would be rent free as the rent is already paid up for so many years. They wanted their own new building instead...
I've been told that they were offered one of the DEFRA buildings next to the site which will be unoccupied and will have already been refurbished. On top of that it would be rent free as the rent is already paid up for so many years. They wanted their own new building instead...
Posted by: Lt.Dobie, Northallerton on 12:41pm Wed 5 Mar 08
The Terry's Factory idea sound spot-on; so why not?
£38million could go to repairing the walls for example. How hard would it be to convert Terry's? Now that would be green...
The Terry's Factory idea sound spot-on; so why not?
£38million could go to repairing the walls for example. How hard would it be to convert Terry's? Now that would be green...
Posted by: delboy, York on 12:44pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Can't agree with you Captain Jack on the Terry's idea...they would close the place on race days and be down the races gambling our Council Tax!!!
Can't agree with you Captain Jack on the Terry's idea...they would close the place on race days and be down the races gambling our Council Tax!!!
Posted by: Stephen, York on 12:45pm Wed 5 Mar 08
And how much gas will their ECO-Tower burn to heat the building and hot water supply ECO-Friendly bull crud.
Its a replica of the Weymouth Borough Council offices built 30yrs ago.
Keep moving folks, nothing modern or outstandingly new here to see.
And how much gas will their ECO-Tower burn to heat the building and hot water supply ECO-Friendly bull crud.
Its a replica of the Weymouth Borough Council offices built 30yrs ago.
Keep moving folks, nothing modern or outstandingly new here to see.
Posted by: Jason on 12:54pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Was this design done in crayon by any chance?
Was this design done in crayon by any chance?
Posted by: Peter, york on 12:55pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Looking at the artists impression there is absolutely no need to demolish the Peasholm homeless shelter, it would be far better left to hide this monstrosity.
Looking at the artists impression there is absolutely no need to demolish the Peasholm homeless shelter, it would be far better left to hide this monstrosity.
Posted by: oaklander, York on 1:02pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Apparently the newish Norwich Union building by Lendal Bridge cost £22million and houses 2000 employees. Ok there are no real enviromently doo-dahs on it but the building does look reasonably pleasant in an MI6 sort of way. I dont understand how a box with a few Enviro doo-dahs on it can cost twice as much and house less people? Its not as if the council has had to buy the land for it in the first place.
I would like to see a break down of the costings of this monstrosity.
The council have turned down many planning aplications because the buildings dont fit with the historical suroundings of york of which everyone agrees stonebow house is the ugliest, un-energy efficient building in north yorkshire yet they style their headquarters on it???
Just shows how dull this council really is.
Apparently the newish Norwich Union building by Lendal Bridge cost £22million and houses 2000 employees. Ok there are no real enviromently doo-dahs on it but the building does look reasonably pleasant in an MI6 sort of way. I dont understand how a box with a few Enviro doo-dahs on it can cost twice as much and house less people? Its not as if the council has had to buy the land for it in the first place.
I would like to see a break down of the costings of this monstrosity.
The council have turned down many planning aplications because the buildings dont fit with the historical suroundings of york of which everyone agrees stonebow house is the ugliest, un-energy efficient building in north yorkshire yet they style their headquarters on it???
Just shows how dull this council really is.
Posted by: hmmmmm, York on 1:11pm Wed 5 Mar 08
all the materials being used are very expensive. Why not stick a cheap easy to look after office block up at Monks Cross or Clifton Moor, where there is a park & ride so there should be no problems for anyone to get to it. It would be a whole lot cheaper and the excess money could go into essentials.
all the materials being used are very expensive. Why not stick a cheap easy to look after office block up at Monks Cross or Clifton Moor, where there is a park & ride so there should be no problems for anyone to get to it. It would be a whole lot cheaper and the excess money could go into essentials.
Posted by: Stephen, York on 1:26pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Local government is working much better than in previous years. However, a new survey reveals that:
* Six in ten people do not feel they are given an adequate say on how local council services are run;
* More than 9 in 10 people believe accountability of councils could be improved;
* Nearly four in 10 people do not feel councillors are representative of their communities and six in 10 do not believe they adequately reflect their views.
Local government is working much better than in previous years. However, a new survey reveals that:
* Six in ten people do not feel they are given an adequate say on how local council services are run;
* More than 9 in 10 people believe accountability of councils could be improved;
* Nearly four in 10 people do not feel councillors are representative of their communities and six in 10 do not believe they adequately reflect their views.
Posted by: David H, York on 1:28pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Ideal design for Leeds, [bold]hopeless[/bold] for York.
Ideal design for Leeds,
hopeless for York.
Posted by: DAVID BAKER, AYCLIFFE VILLAGE CO DURHAM on 1:31pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Just looks like Darlington Civic Centre which the Council would like to demolish.
Just looks like Darlington Civic Centre which the Council would like to demolish.
Posted by: The Voice of Reason, York on 1:33pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Yee-ak! What an ugly, stinking waste of money. The Terry's idea sounds great - a bet this Council gave it LOADS of consideration.
Yee-ak! What an ugly, stinking waste of money. The Terry's idea sounds great - a bet this Council gave it LOADS of consideration.
Posted by: the exile, York on 1:35pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote][bold]BL[/bold] wrote:
I've been told that they were offered one of the DEFRA buildings next to the site which will be unoccupied and will have already been refurbished. On top of that it would be rent free as the rent is already paid up for so many years. They wanted their own new building instead...[/quote] "I've been told...." by who??? You're talking absolute tosh! Just because the rent has been paid by DEFRA doesn't mean they'd let the council have it for nothing...they'll want to recoup some of their costs...and if the council accept their offer what do they do when they move out of DEFRA buildings? At some point they need to grasp the nettle and sort this out!
BL wrote:
I've been told that they were offered one of the DEFRA buildings next to the site which will be unoccupied and will have already been refurbished. On top of that it would be rent free as the rent is already paid up for so many years. They wanted their own new building instead...
"I've been told...." by who??? You're talking absolute tosh! Just because the rent has been paid by DEFRA doesn't mean they'd let the council have it for nothing...they'll want to recoup some of their costs...and if the council accept their offer what do they do when they move out of DEFRA buildings? At some point they need to grasp the nettle and sort this out!
Posted by: slornie, Birmingham/York on 1:46pm Wed 5 Mar 08
What they fail to mention in the article is that although the building is intended to house 1400 workers, there will only be desk space for 3 in 5 of them.
Theyre intending on using a hot desk system, with each employee having a little wheeled set of drawers to pull to their chosen desk each day. This will prevent coherent team and department working , and needlessly complicate office practices!
The employees then waste time at the beginning and end of each day setting up (their set of drawers, their files, adjusting the computer/seat, etc) and clearing up (they have make sure the desk is clean for the next day's user).
As well as this, all files are set to be stored in one central location (rather than in each dept where theyre needed), where they have to be collected from and returned to each day, wasting even more time.
*I found this out from a council employee i know.
What they fail to mention in the article is that although the building is intended to house 1400 workers, there will only be desk space for 3 in 5 of them.
Theyre intending on using a hot desk system, with each employee having a little wheeled set of drawers to pull to their chosen desk each day. This will prevent coherent team and department working , and needlessly complicate office practices!
The employees then waste time at the beginning and end of each day setting up (their set of drawers, their files, adjusting the computer/seat, etc) and clearing up (they have make sure the desk is clean for the next day's user).
As well as this, all files are set to be stored in one central location (rather than in each dept where theyre needed), where they have to be collected from and returned to each day, wasting even more time.
*I found this out from a council employee i know.
Posted by: ouserower, york on 1:47pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Unbelievable! I thought the Stonebow was bad but this is just INCREDIBLE! A major rethink is needed here urgently before such a Lenin inspired monolith is foisted upon York. A truly retrograde step shockingly bad when so much modern architecture is so good this building aspires to be the very worst that can be found so reminiscent of the '60's Lets hope this can be stopped dead in its tracks before another blight lands on our doorstep. Dreary, dull and demolished is what this should be.
Unbelievable! I thought the Stonebow was bad but this is just INCREDIBLE! A major rethink is needed here urgently before such a Lenin inspired monolith is foisted upon York. A truly retrograde step shockingly bad when so much modern architecture is so good this building aspires to be the very worst that can be found so reminiscent of the '60's Lets hope this can be stopped dead in its tracks before another blight lands on our doorstep. Dreary, dull and demolished is what this should be.
Posted by: slornie, Birmingham/York on 1:48pm Wed 5 Mar 08
What they fail to mention in the article is that although the building is intended to house 1400 workers, there will only be desk space for 3 in 5 of them.
Theyre intending on using a hot desk system, with each employee having a little wheeled set of drawers to pull to their chosen desk each day. This will prevent coherent team and department working , and needlessly complicate office practices!
The employees then waste time at the beginning and end of each day setting up (their set of drawers, their files, adjusting the computer/seat, etc) and clearing up (they have make sure the desk is clean for the next day's user).
As well as this, all files are set to be stored in one central location (rather than in each dept where theyre needed), where they have to be collected from and returned to each day, wasting even more time.
*I found this out from a council employee i know.
What they fail to mention in the article is that although the building is intended to house 1400 workers, there will only be desk space for 3 in 5 of them.
Theyre intending on using a hot desk system, with each employee having a little wheeled set of drawers to pull to their chosen desk each day. This will prevent coherent team and department working , and needlessly complicate office practices!
The employees then waste time at the beginning and end of each day setting up (their set of drawers, their files, adjusting the computer/seat, etc) and clearing up (they have make sure the desk is clean for the next day's user).
As well as this, all files are set to be stored in one central location (rather than in each dept where theyre needed), where they have to be collected from and returned to each day, wasting even more time.
*I found this out from a council employee i know.
Posted by: petethefeet, york on 1:49pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Seems that the general concensus is that it is an hateful thing? The problem here is that it will be the City Council that gives approval for it's own project. One possibility to block it is for many people to object to the application and then, as a group, you will have the right to appeal to the Environment agency. The problem though is, that whilst York is a historic City, the Stonebow area in general resembles an architectural 'Gorilla's armpit'. So it should blend in quite nicely!
Seems that the general concensus is that it is an hateful thing? The problem here is that it will be the City Council that gives approval for it's own project. One possibility to block it is for many people to object to the application and then, as a group, you will have the right to appeal to the Environment agency. The problem though is, that whilst York is a historic City, the Stonebow area in general resembles an architectural 'Gorilla's armpit'. So it should blend in quite nicely!
Posted by: Voice of reason, York on 1:58pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote]Posted by: The Voice of Reason, York[/quote]
Noted and reported.
Get an imagination please!
Posted by: The Voice of Reason, York
Noted and reported.
Get an imagination please!
Posted by: Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall on 2:20pm Wed 5 Mar 08
We should really put a stop to all of this Hungate Business for good.
A campaign of civil disobedience with the aim of bringing the council to a grinding halt would do the trick. There are various ways we can do this - non/late payment of council tax, paying your council tax in pennies, laying bodies down in front of council vehicles etc. Stop the organisation from fuctioning and it's leaders will sit up and take notice. We need a local referendum on whether or not to proceed with Hungate.
We could also do with a national referendum on membership of the EU and the death penalty.
We should really put a stop to all of this Hungate Business for good.
A campaign of civil disobedience with the aim of bringing the council to a grinding halt would do the trick. There are various ways we can do this - non/late payment of council tax, paying your council tax in pennies, laying bodies down in front of council vehicles etc. Stop the organisation from fuctioning and it's leaders will sit up and take notice. We need a local referendum on whether or not to proceed with Hungate.
We could also do with a national referendum on membership of the EU and the death penalty.
Posted by: BL on 2:23pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote]"I've been told...." by who??? You're talking absolute tosh! Just because the rent has been paid by DEFRA doesn't mean they'd let the council have it for nothing...they'll want to recoup some of their costs...and if the council accept their offer what do they do when they move out of DEFRA buildings? At some point they need to grasp the nettle and sort this out![/quote]
By someone who works for DEFRA at the offices in question...
"I've been told...." by who??? You're talking absolute tosh! Just because the rent has been paid by DEFRA doesn't mean they'd let the council have it for nothing...they'll want to recoup some of their costs...and if the council accept their offer what do they do when they move out of DEFRA buildings? At some point they need to grasp the nettle and sort this out!
By someone who works for DEFRA at the offices in question...
Posted by: andyb2, york on 2:24pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Great idea Captain Jack, I`ll see you at the barricades!
Great idea Captain Jack, I`ll see you at the barricades!
Posted by: Voice of reason, York on 2:41pm Wed 5 Mar 08
I seem to remember that last time the council asked us for our opinions. Less than 5% of residents bothered to reply.
I'm as against the council as the next man most of the time, but more people should have had their say when they had the rare opportunity.
I seem to remember that last time the council asked us for our opinions. Less than 5% of residents bothered to reply.
I'm as against the council as the next man most of the time, but more people should have had their say when they had the rare opportunity.
Posted by: york1900, York on 2:42pm Wed 5 Mar 08
It looks like a tarted up copy of Stonebow House which as never looked right since it was built in the 60s
It looks like a tarted up copy of Stonebow House which as never looked right since it was built in the 60s
Posted by: Shiny_Dave, @ Work on 2:45pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Oh dear! Many cities in UK are re-developing their city centres for the better (in many cases though not all) with innovative new architecture and York Council comes up with that!
How could anyone think that it is appealing? It is as bad as the new apartments opposite Rowntree Wharf! I've seen pictures of Hungate when it was a slum that looked better!
Is it not time to employ a resident architect for the city who creates a style/ vision, accepted by the citizens, with which all buildings must conform too for a set period of time?
Oh dear! Many cities in UK are re-developing their city centres for the better (in many cases though not all) with innovative new architecture and York Council comes up with that!
How could anyone think that it is appealing? It is as bad as the new apartments opposite Rowntree Wharf! I've seen pictures of Hungate when it was a slum that looked better!
Is it not time to employ a resident architect for the city who creates a style/ vision, accepted by the citizens, with which all buildings must conform too for a set period of time?
Posted by: york1900, York on 2:52pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Captain Jack Sparrow[/bold] wrote:
We should really put a stop to all of this Hungate Business for good. A campaign of civil disobedience with the aim of bringing the council to a grinding halt would do the trick. There are various ways we can do this - non/late payment of council tax, paying your council tax in pennies, laying bodies down in front of council vehicles etc. Stop the organisation from fuctioning and it's leaders will sit up and take notice. We need a local referendum on whether or not to proceed with Hungate. We could also do with a national referendum on membership of the EU and the death penalty. [/quote] [bold]You can not do that[/bold] you have to get rid of the councilors who have there own agenda to what they want and the only way to do that is to go out and vote
[bold]untill then we have to suffer the rubbish they like even if it is the worsed of taste[/bold]
Captain Jack Sparrow wrote:
We should really put a stop to all of this Hungate Business for good. A campaign of civil disobedience with the aim of bringing the council to a grinding halt would do the trick. There are various ways we can do this - non/late payment of council tax, paying your council tax in pennies, laying bodies down in front of council vehicles etc. Stop the organisation from fuctioning and it's leaders will sit up and take notice. We need a local referendum on whether or not to proceed with Hungate. We could also do with a national referendum on membership of the EU and the death penalty.
You can not do that you have to get rid of the councilors who have there own agenda to what they want and the only way to do that is to go out and vote
untill then we have to suffer the rubbish they like even if it is the worsed of taste Posted by: TW, Wrong Planet on 2:57pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote]Ceredig Jamieson-Ball, the council's executive member for corporate services said: "I think it's an impressive building that, when some of the comments are taken on board, the city can be proud of for years to come."[/quote]
Not judging by these comments it can't
Ceredig Jamieson-Ball, the council's executive member for corporate services said: "I think it's an impressive building that, when some of the comments are taken on board, the city can be proud of for years to come."
Not judging by these comments it can't
Posted by: york1900, York on 3:00pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[bold]There is not a building in York city center built in the passed 50 years that is of any of merit
they all look out of place with the other buildings in York[/bold]
There is not a building in York city center built in the passed 50 years that is of any of merit
they all look out of place with the other buildings in York Posted by: meme, york on 3:14pm Wed 5 Mar 08
What about westgate ?Thats modern, imposing and looks good and has lasted well?
What about westgate ?Thats modern, imposing and looks good and has lasted well?
Posted by: Galloway Out on 3:21pm Wed 5 Mar 08
I dont see the problem with the building. Its a basic office block. If the council had come up with something flamboyant and artistic they would have been crucified for wasting money.
I dont see the problem with the building. Its a basic office block. If the council had come up with something flamboyant and artistic they would have been crucified for wasting money.
Posted by: Mark5691, York on 3:24pm Wed 5 Mar 08
My God !!! Looks as if it was knocked up in 5 minutes by an architect who only used a set square.
Do we the public get a chance to tell the council what we think of this disaster?
My God !!! Looks as if it was knocked up in 5 minutes by an architect who only used a set square.
Do we the public get a chance to tell the council what we think of this disaster?
Posted by: gaz_leeds, york on 3:44pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[bold]As ever on the evening press website, people who do not have a clue about anything to do with architecture, design, construction or development within York. Moaning and bickering and passing pathetic comments when 99% of you do not have the foggiest idea what when it come to this……[/bold]
As ever on the evening press website, people who do not have a clue about anything to do with architecture, design, construction or development within York. Moaning and bickering and passing pathetic comments when 99% of you do not have the foggiest idea what when it come to this…… Posted by: Lt.Dobie, York-ish on 3:47pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Hot-desking is pointless. What are the 20% of workers 'out of the office' doing, exactly???
They can't ALL be visiting or even in visiting roles...
How often have councillors/ MPs really represented the community anyway? Own agendas get in their way.
Hot-desking is pointless. What are the 20% of workers 'out of the office' doing, exactly???
They can't ALL be visiting or even in visiting roles...
How often have councillors/ MPs really represented the community anyway? Own agendas get in their way.
Posted by: franky, york on 3:49pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote][bold]gaz_leeds[/bold] wrote:
[bold]As ever on the evening press website, people who do not have a clue about anything to do with architecture, design, construction or development within York. Moaning and bickering and passing pathetic comments when 99% of you do not have the foggiest idea what when it come to this……[/bold] [/quote] Aren't people allowed an opinion on how it looks to them Gaz? As ordinary people?
Seems like you are a bit touchy on the subject, with bold print and all... any chance you were involved in this design?
gaz_leeds wrote:
As ever on the evening press website, people who do not have a clue about anything to do with architecture, design, construction or development within York. Moaning and bickering and passing pathetic comments when 99% of you do not have the foggiest idea what when it come to this……
Aren't people allowed an opinion on how it looks to them Gaz? As ordinary people?
Seems like you are a bit touchy on the subject, with bold print and all... any chance you were involved in this design?
Posted by: Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall on 3:50pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Galloway Out[/bold] wrote:
I dont see the problem with the building. Its a basic office block. If the council had come up with something flamboyant and artistic they would have been crucified for wasting money.[/quote] [quote]crucified for wasting money.[/quote]
[bold]That's the point![/bold] Regardless of whether you like the design or not, it's a needless building.
How many jobs have been sacrificed in the council (we all know the recent cutbacks) to enable them to waste 38 million plus on this building???
It simply beggars belief. Here is a clear case of them putting the interests of the council first instead of the constituents they represent. It speaks volumes when councillors award themselve 11% pay rises. Your interests, not ours - the payers of local taxation.
Come the military Junta, most of you councillors will be sat in stocks on Marygate whence the public can happen upon you, help themselves to rotten fruit and veg, and launch the fetid stinking organics at your personages.
Galloway Out wrote:
I dont see the problem with the building. Its a basic office block. If the council had come up with something flamboyant and artistic they would have been crucified for wasting money.
crucified for wasting money.
That's the point! Regardless of whether you like the design or not, it's a needless building.
How many jobs have been sacrificed in the council (we all know the recent cutbacks) to enable them to waste 38 million plus on this building???
It simply beggars belief. Here is a clear case of them putting the interests of the council first instead of the constituents they represent. It speaks volumes when councillors award themselve 11% pay rises. Your interests, not ours - the payers of local taxation.
Come the military Junta, most of you councillors will be sat in stocks on Marygate whence the public can happen upon you, help themselves to rotten fruit and veg, and launch the fetid stinking organics at your personages.
Posted by: redp, Huntington on 3:55pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Am I right in thinking that stonebow house was once voted the ugliest building in europe? If so it looks like YCC intends on giving it competition.
Am I right in thinking that stonebow house was once voted the ugliest building in europe? If so it looks like YCC intends on giving it competition.
Posted by: Captain Jack Sparrow, Strensall on 3:58pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote][bold]gaz_leeds[/bold] wrote:
[bold]As ever on the evening press website, people who do not have a clue about anything to do with architecture, design, construction or development within York. Moaning and bickering and passing pathetic comments when 99% of you do not have the foggiest idea what when it come to this……[/bold] [/quote] That's a bit presumptious.
Am I to assume then that from the juxtaposition of your moniker and location that you are indeed, a cannibal residing in the armpit of Yorkshire that is known as Leeds?
gaz_leeds wrote:
As ever on the evening press website, people who do not have a clue about anything to do with architecture, design, construction or development within York. Moaning and bickering and passing pathetic comments when 99% of you do not have the foggiest idea what when it come to this……
That's a bit presumptious.
Am I to assume then that from the juxtaposition of your moniker and location that you are indeed, a cannibal residing in the armpit of Yorkshire that is known as Leeds?
Posted by: gaz_leeds, york on 4:09pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Captain Jack Sparrow[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]gaz_leeds[/bold] wrote: [bold]As ever on the evening press website, people who do not have a clue about anything to do with architecture, design, construction or development within York. Moaning and bickering and passing pathetic comments when 99% of you do not have the foggiest idea what when it come to this……[/bold] [/quote] That's a bit presumptious. Am I to assume then that from the juxtaposition of your moniker and location that you are indeed, a cannibal residing in the armpit of Yorkshire that is known as Leeds? [/quote] You are correct Captain Jack, you are wrong to assume that i reside in the “armpit of Yorkshire” this been Leeds. York born and bread my good friend.
Captain Jack Sparrow wrote:
gaz_leeds wrote: As ever on the evening press website, people who do not have a clue about anything to do with architecture, design, construction or development within York. Moaning and bickering and passing pathetic comments when 99% of you do not have the foggiest idea what when it come to this……
That's a bit presumptious. Am I to assume then that from the juxtaposition of your moniker and location that you are indeed, a cannibal residing in the armpit of Yorkshire that is known as Leeds?
You are correct Captain Jack, you are wrong to assume that i reside in the “armpit of Yorkshire” this been Leeds. York born and bread my good friend.
Posted by: goangordon, India on 4:21pm Wed 5 Mar 08
MAD,MAD,BAD. That can be the only conclusion regarding the design of the proposed council offices. In the 1800s, the then Corparation (now Council) wanted to tear down the city walls. In the 1960s we had Stonebow and Rydale Hse, recently the Council wanted to destroy the beauty of Clifford's Tower with a shopping mall. And now they want to inflict this monstrosity on our city, when will they learn. I call on all York citizens to voice their anger at this abysmal attempt at architecture. It doesn't matter if it is an "eco" building, it is just plain ugly and our city does not deserve a further carbuncle on it's face. Go back to the drawing board, or let some six year old have a go, I'm sure they could do better.
MAD,MAD,BAD. That can be the only conclusion regarding the design of the proposed council offices. In the 1800s, the then Corparation (now Council) wanted to tear down the city walls. In the 1960s we had Stonebow and Rydale Hse, recently the Council wanted to destroy the beauty of Clifford's Tower with a shopping mall. And now they want to inflict this monstrosity on our city, when will they learn. I call on all York citizens to voice their anger at this abysmal attempt at architecture. It doesn't matter if it is an "eco" building, it is just plain ugly and our city does not deserve a further carbuncle on it's face. Go back to the drawing board, or let some six year old have a go, I'm sure they could do better.
Posted by: newsboy, York on 4:51pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Will the Council have the courage to bounce their own planning application and insist on a design more in keeping with the city environment as they have done to others?
Will the Council have the courage to bounce their own planning application and insist on a design more in keeping with the city environment as they have done to others?
Posted by: Mullarkian, York on 4:55pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Go and have a look at the Scottish parliament building - it's really ugly and just does not fit in with its surroundings.
At least I suppose this building matches the telephone exchange nearby, more ironic than iconic!
Go and have a look at the Scottish parliament building - it's really ugly and just does not fit in with its surroundings.
At least I suppose this building matches the telephone exchange nearby, more ironic than iconic!
Posted by: hustler, York on 5:00pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote][bold]gaz_leeds[/bold] wrote:
[bold]As ever on the evening press website, people who do not have a clue about anything to do with architecture, design, construction or development within York. Moaning and bickering and passing pathetic comments when 99% of you do not have the foggiest idea what when it come to this……[/bold] [/quote] I think the vast majority of contributers here have passed comment with regard to the aesthetic "look" of the building. Either that it looks out of place, or hails back to an era not looked back fondly on for its style of architecture. Surely we are entitled to our opinions, just as you are yours ?
gaz_leeds wrote:
As ever on the evening press website, people who do not have a clue about anything to do with architecture, design, construction or development within York. Moaning and bickering and passing pathetic comments when 99% of you do not have the foggiest idea what when it come to this……
I think the vast majority of contributers here have passed comment with regard to the aesthetic "look" of the building. Either that it looks out of place, or hails back to an era not looked back fondly on for its style of architecture. Surely we are entitled to our opinions, just as you are yours ?
Posted by: ALD, York on 5:00pm Wed 5 Mar 08
I don't think much of the Scottish Parliament building but the main thing to ensure is that there is not a cost over run like there was with that building.
I don't think much of the Scottish Parliament building but the main thing to ensure is that there is not a cost over run like there was with that building.
Posted by: read-all-about-it, Haxby on 5:36pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Voice of reason[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Posted by: The Voice of Reason, York[/quote] Noted and reported. Get an imagination please![/quote] Agree with you 'Voice of reason'.
It's high time the Press sorted out and got rid of all the impersonators now freely operating on this site.
Including yours my friend!!
Voice of reason wrote:
Posted by: The Voice of Reason, York
Noted and reported. Get an imagination please!
Agree with you 'Voice of reason'.
It's high time the Press sorted out and got rid of all the impersonators now freely operating on this site.
Including yours my friend!!
Posted by: C H, york on 5:43pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Should have got Potacabin to put a load of cabins up would,nt have looked any different, alot cheaper anyway they,l probably knock it down in 20 years to build a homeless hostel
Should have got Potacabin to put a load of cabins up would,nt have looked any different, alot cheaper anyway they,l probably knock it down in 20 years to build a homeless hostel
Posted by: ouserower, york on 6:04pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Frank Lloyd Wright will be turning in his grave.I shall have to start a campaign against this concrete council carbuncle. The pity is this building is next to a lovely timber framed Tudor building a total antithesis of any taste whatsoever!
Frank Lloyd Wright will be turning in his grave.I shall have to start a campaign against this concrete council carbuncle. The pity is this building is next to a lovely timber framed Tudor building a total antithesis of any taste whatsoever!
Posted by: the Butler, Cowichan Bay B.C Canada on 6:30pm Wed 5 Mar 08
I'm sure 'Portacabin' could have build
an excellent building, ecco friendly for much less, even a leased unit,Modernized every ten years, This would also employ a York firm that has an excellent construction record..
I'm sure 'Portacabin' could have build
an excellent building, ecco friendly for much less, even a leased unit,Modernized every ten years, This would also employ a York firm that has an excellent construction record..
Posted by: jt, walmgate on 6:30pm Wed 5 Mar 08
When I applied for planning permission to build a roof dormer on top of my 1960's ex council maisonette, I was told as it was in a conservation area the mass was too great. Suffice to say that my plan was somewhat smaller than the Council's own proposal.
When I applied for planning permission to build a roof dormer on top of my 1960's ex council maisonette, I was told as it was in a conservation area the mass was too great. Suffice to say that my plan was somewhat smaller than the Council's own proposal.
Posted by: Voice of reason, York on 7:45pm Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote]York born and bread my good friend.[/quote]
Looks like we've found our illiterate grafitti artist from the story last week!!
York born and bread my good friend.
Looks like we've found our illiterate grafitti artist from the story last week!!
Posted by: ghost of oscar deutsch on 8:00pm Wed 5 Mar 08
What a heap of pap!!Looks like they've been looking to inner city eyesores for inspiration.
This isn't a remotely exciting piece of architecture and is totally out of scale with the surrounding area.
How long before its announced that it will be costing closer to £100 million.
Galloway must be picking out his corner luxury office as we speak.
I can just imagine the tour buses going past in the future and the guides saying " And on your left we have centre of local government, as shiny and useless as the people it houses".
York is becoming a hole.
What a heap of pap!!Looks like they've been looking to inner city eyesores for inspiration.
This isn't a remotely exciting piece of architecture and is totally out of scale with the surrounding area.
How long before its announced that it will be costing closer to £100 million.
Galloway must be picking out his corner luxury office as we speak.
I can just imagine the tour buses going past in the future and the guides saying " And on your left we have centre of local government, as shiny and useless as the people it houses".
York is becoming a hole.
Posted by: selmabolatoin, York on 8:11pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Let’s face it, the Council are on a hiding to nothing with any proposal. Sure, the Black Swan is lovely, as charming (in an ‘I could have starred in Shrek’ kind of way) as the DEFRA building is charmless and underwhelming. The unmerited appreciation for the Norwich Union building in the comments shows just how conservative a town York is – it lacks the spirit and adventure of a true city and slumps complacently in the cosy battered armchair of its architectural legacy. The DEFRA and Norwich Union buildings could have been designed with a box of Lego, so too, perhaps, the proposed building but at least it is more honest about that. True, it’s unadventurous but how far would proposals for a truly iconic adventurous building get? We know don’t we.
How about we get the French guy who did the stunning coloured light tracery on the Minster a while back to come and design changeable laser light projections for the façades? We could have Roman, Viking, Tudor, Georgian, Victorian etc. projections to suit all tastes in turn. I suspect the scorn and bile poured onto this proposal are largely due to the fact it is, all said and done, a municipal building. Have a look at the residential developments on Heworth Green and then say this is a proposal we don’t deserve. The word for both is timid.
Let’s face it, the Council are on a hiding to nothing with any proposal. Sure, the Black Swan is lovely, as charming (in an ‘I could have starred in Shrek’ kind of way) as the DEFRA building is charmless and underwhelming. The unmerited appreciation for the Norwich Union building in the comments shows just how conservative a town York is – it lacks the spirit and adventure of a true city and slumps complacently in the cosy battered armchair of its architectural legacy. The DEFRA and Norwich Union buildings could have been designed with a box of Lego, so too, perhaps, the proposed building but at least it is more honest about that. True, it’s unadventurous but how far would proposals for a truly iconic adventurous building get? We know don’t we.
How about we get the French guy who did the stunning coloured light tracery on the Minster a while back to come and design changeable laser light projections for the façades? We could have Roman, Viking, Tudor, Georgian, Victorian etc. projections to suit all tastes in turn. I suspect the scorn and bile poured onto this proposal are largely due to the fact it is, all said and done, a municipal building. Have a look at the residential developments on Heworth Green and then say this is a proposal we don’t deserve. The word for both is timid.
Posted by: selmabolatoin, York on 9:42pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Hello ghost of oscar deutsch "...as shiny and useless as the people it houses". ?
Please share with us your contribution to society, just so we can be assured you're not equally as useless.
Hello ghost of oscar deutsch "...as shiny and useless as the people it houses". ?
Please share with us your contribution to society, just so we can be assured you're not equally as useless.
Posted by: Harvey, York on 10:28pm Wed 5 Mar 08
This is ridiculous, if you want to work in an ugly building, save load's of money and move into Stonebow House. It's about time councils started listening to the people. Mind you.... Does it matter, it' not their money. Rip Off parking will soon pay for it.
This is ridiculous, if you want to work in an ugly building, save load's of money and move into Stonebow House. It's about time councils started listening to the people. Mind you.... Does it matter, it' not their money. Rip Off parking will soon pay for it.
Posted by: Harvey, York on 11:00pm Wed 5 Mar 08
Poor old Black Swan, Stuck in between DEFRA and this monster. There is something very wrong here.
Poor old Black Swan, Stuck in between DEFRA and this monster. There is something very wrong here.
Posted by: mivvi, near York on 1:41am Thu 6 Mar 08
[quote]the authority's head of property services, Neil Hindhaugh, hailed the "iconic" building" [/quote].
...after which he was handed back his white cane.
[quote]Mr Hindhaugh said it was a challenge to come up with a building appropriate for York. ...We wanted a building special to York.[/quote]
A challenge not met then? Though it will certainly be special to York - for all the wrong reasons.
[quote]The main building will....also offer spectacular panoramic views over the city.[/quote]
It's not about what the inside is like, it's about what it looks like outside - and it's hideous. Forget the environmental, eco-friendly & sustainable cr@p; any building can have those. This one is ugly and out of place and is 'iconic' only in the same way as Stonebow House is. It's difficult to argue against the basic premise for relocation and consolidation, but surely a site at Monk's Cross or similar would provide easier access and parking for both staff and customers. I sometimes wonder if the Council has forgotten that it serves us, its tax-paying customers, & not itself. How do we stop this monstrosity?
the authority's head of property services, Neil Hindhaugh, hailed the "iconic" building"
.
...after which he was handed back his white cane.
Mr Hindhaugh said it was a challenge to come up with a building appropriate for York. ...We wanted a building special to York.
A challenge not met then? Though it will certainly be special to York - for all the wrong reasons.
The main building will....also offer spectacular panoramic views over the city.
It's not about what the inside is like, it's about what it looks like outside - and it's hideous. Forget the environmental, eco-friendly & sustainable cr@p; any building can have those. This one is ugly and out of place and is 'iconic' only in the same way as Stonebow House is. It's difficult to argue against the basic premise for relocation and consolidation, but surely a site at Monk's Cross or similar would provide easier access and parking for both staff and customers. I sometimes wonder if the Council has forgotten that it serves us, its tax-paying customers, & not itself. How do we stop this monstrosity?
Posted by: ouserower, york on 7:33am Thu 6 Mar 08
We already have the two most hideous piles in York in this area with the Soulless Stonebow and enormous exchange. The area is in great need of a devastating earthquake not a complimentary building adding to the dross. The Council should be striding to set an example. If it costs slightly more for an iconic building then so be it. York will benefit but this can only drag the city into the depths of depression. If there really is a need to build rubbish then do so outside the city walls not inside.
We already have the two most hideous piles in York in this area with the Soulless Stonebow and enormous exchange. The area is in great need of a devastating earthquake not a complimentary building adding to the dross. The Council should be striding to set an example. If it costs slightly more for an iconic building then so be it. York will benefit but this can only drag the city into the depths of depression. If there really is a need to build rubbish then do so outside the city walls not inside.
Posted by: oli4uk, York on 9:32am Thu 6 Mar 08
Not a fan of this, with 10 million less than what they are paying they could buy so much more. And as much as tehy like to tout the environmentally friendly horn, building this is going to cause a helllova lto more co2 than recycling an old building.
The council has been offered many alternative locations but they are blundering ahead with this disaster.
Cant wait to see how the maintenance cost on this hits our council tax.
Not a fan of this, with 10 million less than what they are paying they could buy so much more. And as much as tehy like to tout the environmentally friendly horn, building this is going to cause a helllova lto more co2 than recycling an old building.
The council has been offered many alternative locations but they are blundering ahead with this disaster.
Cant wait to see how the maintenance cost on this hits our council tax.
Posted by: yorkshi!e, york on 9:01am Sat 8 Mar 08
anyone watched the video on york.gov.uk
i notice the press didnt show the picture of the big agricultural grain store out back! wonder what it is for? maybe a feed silo for galloway and his chums
anyone watched the video on york.gov.uk
i notice the press didnt show the picture of the big agricultural grain store out back! wonder what it is for? maybe a feed silo for galloway and his chums
Posted by: Dave McBridge, York on 4:49pm Sat 8 Mar 08
Would fit in perfectly on the uni campus, or at monks x, but not in the city centre.
Modern city developments can work (bullring in birmingham, city sq. leeds) but hungate's not a big area, and that building just looks too imposing.....but i suppose it'll take my eyes off the stonebow!
Would fit in perfectly on the uni campus, or at monks x, but not in the city centre.
Modern city developments can work (bullring in birmingham, city sq. leeds) but hungate's not a big area, and that building just looks too imposing.....but i suppose it'll take my eyes off the stonebow!
Posted by: J Castle, Acomb on 6:20pm Sat 15 Mar 08
Dear Sirs,
Amid all the clamour surrounding the new council building why is it necessary to throw up such a smoke screen by reeling off all the building's supposedly green credentials. They should apply to any new building these days. Perhaps it's an attempt to hide the real properties of the place and that is that it's a total bore that a two year old child could have bettered. Why on earth our leaders should even consider something like this and allow it to reach the design stage is beyond me. A plea to our councillors, please use a bit of imagination and not just nod through a poor imitation a Lego cube at the planning stage. Even the nearby Defra and Telecoms buildings, which we are told it has to blend in with, offer a more pleasing appearance and that says something.
Please use the Norwich Union buiding as an example of what can be achieved.
Yours etc
J Castle
Dear Sirs,
Amid all the clamour surrounding the new council building why is it necessary to throw up such a smoke screen by reeling off all the building's supposedly green credentials. They should apply to any new building these days. Perhaps it's an attempt to hide the real properties of the place and that is that it's a total bore that a two year old child could have bettered. Why on earth our leaders should even consider something like this and allow it to reach the design stage is beyond me. A plea to our councillors, please use a bit of imagination and not just nod through a poor imitation a Lego cube at the planning stage. Even the nearby Defra and Telecoms buildings, which we are told it has to blend in with, offer a more pleasing appearance and that says something.
Please use the Norwich Union buiding as an example of what can be achieved.
Yours etc
J Castle
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