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Fury over ‘drug-dealing beggars’
10:36am Tuesday 15th April 2008
By Mike Laycock »
TRADERS in the historic heart of York city centre are calling for a crackdown on drug-dealing beggars.
Shopkeepers in the Stonegate and Low Petergate area say they have witnessed certain beggars consistently dealing in drugs, and are "sick to the teeth" that nothing is being done about them.
One of them claimed in a letter to City of York Council, signed by 19 other traders, that a beggar regularly sat down near her premises, begging and dealing all day and also buying alcohol for teenagers.
She said that passers-by were given abuse if they didn't give him money.
"But all that happens when we call is that a PSCO (police community support officer) comes down and moves him on, but unfortunately two seconds later he returns and starts it all over again."
She said that beggars could enjoy a "fantastic little earner" because of tourists visiting the Minster, but it was less profitable for businesses because they discouraged browsers and customers from entering premises they were sitting outside.
She said shopkeepers often had to clean up bin bags of litter to clean up on a morning.
"We should not have to do this," she said in the letter, which was handed in to the council by Guildhall councillor Janet Looker.
Now a senior police officer has revealed that the authorities are taking a fresh look at the whole issue of rough sleeping and begging in the city centre.
Inspector Mark Khan, of the Safer Neighbourhoods Team for the city centre, said police were working in partnership with other organisations, including City of York Council and the voluntary sector, to draw up a fresh strategy for dealing with the problems raised.
He said: "We are aware that some rough sleepers and beggars have personal issues requiring support, and at the same time that they can cause problems for businesses."
He said that while the strategy was being drawn up, police would continue to deal "robustly" with anyone found begging aggressively.
He appealed for anyone with evidence of beggars dealing in drugs to come forward with information.
Ewan Allison, of the Minster Quarter, a group of shops situated near the Minster who have united together, said that most beggars were courteous and well-behaved, but if there were "bad eggs" they needed sorting out.
Your Say YourPress
Jason, says...
10:56am Tue 15 Apr 08
I don't suppose they might consider arresting them might they. A revolutionary approach.
David, York says...
10:57am Tue 15 Apr 08
Everybody body with any sense know this already - its only the do-gooding idiots who keep talking about the poor oppressed homeless who prevent real action being taken. Just walk around town and you can see straight away that most of the beggers are junkies from a hundred yards. Most are worthless scum who have no intention of getting better or finding work.
akuma, everywhere says...
10:57am Tue 15 Apr 08
He appealed for anyone with evidence of beggars dealing in drugs to come forward with information.
I recon a bit of camera footage should do the trick.
If the people are ealing as openly as cliamed it shouldn't be hard tyo get.
And camera footage is pretty much gold for the CPS.
akuma, everywhere says...
10:58am Tue 15 Apr 08
Sorry about the gramma in the above post. Long night and not much sleep :(
newsboy, York says...
11:15am Tue 15 Apr 08
No doubt they are the same "poor homeless" individuals who arrive in York each morning by train from Harrogate or Leeds for a hard days begging/dealing. Hard police intelligence needed with an equally hard joint agency response.
Miss Amelia Rate, YORK says...
11:16am Tue 15 Apr 08
Sorry to go off subject but does anyone know why the press feels it appropriate to invite comments on a tragic story about a RTA yet will not allow us to have a say on a conman living the highlife or addicts threatening people? Seems wrong to me somehow.
newsboy, York says...
11:17am Tue 15 Apr 08
No doubt they are the same "poor homeless" individuals who arrive in York each morning by train from Harrogate or Leeds for a hard days begging/dealing. Hard police intelligence needed with an equally hard joint agency response.
newsboy, York says...
11:17am Tue 15 Apr 08
No doubt they are the same "poor homeless" individuals who arrive in York each morning by train from Harrogate or Leeds for a hard days begging/dealing. Hard police intelligence needed with an equally hard joint agency response.
akuma, everywhere says...
11:21am Tue 15 Apr 08
Miss Amelia Rate wrote:Its only a guess, but it seems to be when names are mentioned in relation to court cases.
Sorry to go off subject but does anyone know why the press feels it appropriate to invite comments on a tragic story about a RTA yet will not allow us to have a say on a conman living the highlife or addicts threatening people? Seems wrong to me somehow.
I dont think the press wants personal comments made that may or may not be liable.
The RTA maybe tradigic, but there nothing really liable that can be said.
Peachy4, york says...
11:22am Tue 15 Apr 08
Finger trouble newsboy???
yorkieboy, HongKong says...
11:34am Tue 15 Apr 08
Well I would stop them.Put the scum in an old steamer,sail it to the middle of the Atlantic and torpedo it.It's more commonly known as 'waste disposal'.
Jo, York says...
11:40am Tue 15 Apr 08
Well the Press also deleted my perfectly reasonable comment about the athlete who crashed her car at 60mph in icy road conditions. I said "She was driving too fast for the conditions" and my comment got deleted.
I guess they're just selective in what they want us to talk about.
I guess they're just selective in what they want us to talk about.
Hieronymous, York says...
11:44am Tue 15 Apr 08
Miss Amelia Rate raises an interesting point. I wonder - if comments WERE allowed on the "high living" conman story, whether they would be as many or as critical? We seem to have a sneaking regard in our culture for "clever" or "cheeky" criminals; hence the popularity of films such as Catch Me if You Can and Ocean's Eleven etc.
RodneyRowe, York says...
11:46am Tue 15 Apr 08
I don't think the problem is as black and white as it seems to be portrayed here.
So what happens when you arrest them? They will be kept in for a few hours, ask to speak to a drug counsellor, the case will never go to court and they will be recycled back onto the street. Its time consuming for the police and exspensive to keep them in the cells for a highly unlikely conviction. PCSOs have no power of arrest and are frankly useless. The only way this kind of thing will stop happening is if people stop buying drugs from them. You can't blanketly ban beggars, some may be there for genuine reasons, Just because a few are dealing drugs. I'm not sure about the evidence of beggars coming from other towns but I suspect the numbers are very low.
I say make a stand as citizens, ask the beggars to move on. If you make life difficult for them to deal they will have to move somewhere else. It happened in the markets in Portsmouth, Exeter and the most high profile episode was in Newcastle.
So what happens when you arrest them? They will be kept in for a few hours, ask to speak to a drug counsellor, the case will never go to court and they will be recycled back onto the street. Its time consuming for the police and exspensive to keep them in the cells for a highly unlikely conviction. PCSOs have no power of arrest and are frankly useless. The only way this kind of thing will stop happening is if people stop buying drugs from them. You can't blanketly ban beggars, some may be there for genuine reasons, Just because a few are dealing drugs. I'm not sure about the evidence of beggars coming from other towns but I suspect the numbers are very low.
I say make a stand as citizens, ask the beggars to move on. If you make life difficult for them to deal they will have to move somewhere else. It happened in the markets in Portsmouth, Exeter and the most high profile episode was in Newcastle.
bobby_spray, york says...
12:05pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Well the Press also deleted my perfectly reasonable comment about the athlete who crashed her car at 60mph in icy road conditions
No just your comments. the whole thread has been pulled.
Ask 'keith' as he was the one maoning about the comments.
Angry and Frustrated, York says...
12:28pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Lets have a reality check - there are very few "genuine" beggars or homeless people on the streets of York.
Newsboy is correct - because York is an outwardly affluent town with large numbers of tourists, we are subjected to "beggar tourism" - they do travel all over, especially from Leeds, Harrogate and Hull. Most have drink or drug problems. Very few are genuinely homeless - all you need do is look at them - if they were homeless, they would have bags filled with stuff etc. Most of them have nothing more than a blanket which is a big indicator that they have no need to beg or portray themselves as homeless. I know this because I used to be employed in this field.
The other giveaway is when they sit there texting ot talking on a mobile phone - once again, genuinely homeless/broke people would have sold the phone for bedding or food.
The only way of dealing with these beggars is for the police to come down and arrest them - bail conditions can stop them from returning to their haunts. If this was repeated every day for a couple of weeks, the travellers would soon stop coming as it would not be cost effective for them to do so.
That, coupled with the CCTV idea should be enough to deter them. However, the police won't do it because they have more "important" things to do like persecuting motorists etc.
If the public genuinely want to help homeless people/beggars, then I suggest that they buy the Big Issue off the various sellers around York. Instead of putting money in the hat or cup, but them a cuppa or a sarnie etc. If they are genuinely homeless they be extremely grateful - if they are not, you will be able to tell from the displeasure on their face!!
Newsboy is correct - because York is an outwardly affluent town with large numbers of tourists, we are subjected to "beggar tourism" - they do travel all over, especially from Leeds, Harrogate and Hull. Most have drink or drug problems. Very few are genuinely homeless - all you need do is look at them - if they were homeless, they would have bags filled with stuff etc. Most of them have nothing more than a blanket which is a big indicator that they have no need to beg or portray themselves as homeless. I know this because I used to be employed in this field.
The other giveaway is when they sit there texting ot talking on a mobile phone - once again, genuinely homeless/broke people would have sold the phone for bedding or food.
The only way of dealing with these beggars is for the police to come down and arrest them - bail conditions can stop them from returning to their haunts. If this was repeated every day for a couple of weeks, the travellers would soon stop coming as it would not be cost effective for them to do so.
That, coupled with the CCTV idea should be enough to deter them. However, the police won't do it because they have more "important" things to do like persecuting motorists etc.
If the public genuinely want to help homeless people/beggars, then I suggest that they buy the Big Issue off the various sellers around York. Instead of putting money in the hat or cup, but them a cuppa or a sarnie etc. If they are genuinely homeless they be extremely grateful - if they are not, you will be able to tell from the displeasure on their face!!
Miss Amelia Rate, YORK says...
12:46pm Tue 15 Apr 08
yorkieboy wrote:I really hate this kind of attitude. Some of these people will be genuinely homeless people whose lives have been horrific in ways you can't even imagine.yes, some will be lazy b*****ds who are simpy scrounging but by no means all of them. Through my work I have seen what people have been through that causes them to be on the street and on drugs and I just thank god it's not me or mine.
Well I would stop them.Put the scum in an old steamer,sail it to the middle of the Atlantic and torpedo it.It's more commonly known as 'waste disposal'.
LiarPrior, york says...
1:10pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Well no offence Amelia old angel of mercy, but why don't you let them come and sit on your doorstep then, feed them, tender them, give them money and let the rest of us have a peaceful life?
I have always been tolerant towards these things but sooner or later you have to take a stand. There is NO reason for someone to be homeless, unless they choose to be. Support is available.
Watch some of the scum that trawls backwards and forwards to The Arclight centre.
"Shall i spend the money that i begged on some new clothes, get cleaned up and look for a job?"
No.
"I'll buy some Special Brew / Lightning cider / smack and get off my face and intimidate people."
Sorry, but i know people who have had horrific experiences in life and have chosen to fight their way back.
Stand near any public phonebox in town and i will guarentee that inside of 30 minutes you will witness one of these miscreants there blatantly phoning a dealer to score.
Cue, soft hearted bleating.
I have always been tolerant towards these things but sooner or later you have to take a stand. There is NO reason for someone to be homeless, unless they choose to be. Support is available.
Watch some of the scum that trawls backwards and forwards to The Arclight centre.
"Shall i spend the money that i begged on some new clothes, get cleaned up and look for a job?"
No.
"I'll buy some Special Brew / Lightning cider / smack and get off my face and intimidate people."
Sorry, but i know people who have had horrific experiences in life and have chosen to fight their way back.
Stand near any public phonebox in town and i will guarentee that inside of 30 minutes you will witness one of these miscreants there blatantly phoning a dealer to score.
Cue, soft hearted bleating.
Miss Amelia Rate, YORK says...
1:22pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Well no offence Amelia old angel of mercy - less of the old if you don't mind.
Do you know about addiction? do you know how hard it is to get off drugs? Yes some people have hard lives and carry on ok, some don't, we are all different. Some people have psychiatric problems that they are not getting help for. It is your generalisation that I abhor.
Do you know about addiction? do you know how hard it is to get off drugs? Yes some people have hard lives and carry on ok, some don't, we are all different. Some people have psychiatric problems that they are not getting help for. It is your generalisation that I abhor.
Redr, york says...
1:27pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Many of the homeless in York as in the rest of the UK fall into two categories
1) Former service men who cannot cope with what they have experienced, many suffering post traumatic stress disorder
2) Young people who have suffered appalling abuse who again have no idea how to move on.
Yes I am sure there are drug dealers amongst the homeless but what we need is a response that will help those who need it whilst deterring their criminal activities.
1) Former service men who cannot cope with what they have experienced, many suffering post traumatic stress disorder
2) Young people who have suffered appalling abuse who again have no idea how to move on.
Yes I am sure there are drug dealers amongst the homeless but what we need is a response that will help those who need it whilst deterring their criminal activities.
purpleronnie, Fully, York says...
1:31pm Tue 15 Apr 08
One way of stopping them is to stop giving them money. If a begger knows where is a Hot Spot for making easy money, they won't go. Signs should be put up to make tourists aware not to given them money and they will soon get the message. If you want to help the genuine homeless people buy a Big Issue from a vendor - there are many of them all over York centre. I buy it religiously and there are some very interesting articles in it.
GoodramgateTerrier, York says...
1:51pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Afternoon all, nice to see everything has been going to pot since I've been away!
Speaking as a regular on stonegate (in both a professional and personal capacity the number of beggars can be counted on two fingers during the day, one at the top and one at the bottom of the street, sometimes you get the same one migrating up the street to sit outside of the posh new jewellery store until the nice people at the branded coffee outlet oposite give him a cuppa, then he dissapears.
Only problem Stonegate has with begging on a night time is the one legged chap who plays the harmonica badly all night long on a weekend and disturbs the sounds of the quite talented busker!
NO evidence of drugs whatsoever being sold, just scaremongering to whip up sympathy
Err NO that would be nothing to do with the beggars, more to do with the drunks on a weekend playing bin bag football, and may I also say that walking down stonegate every morning on my way to work as I do it's usually tidier than a lot of other streets in town.
In fact the most mess I have seen down the street for some time was about a fortnight ago when someone stole a load of flyers for a gig and threw them out side Evil Eye.
Speaking as a regular on stonegate (in both a professional and personal capacity the number of beggars can be counted on two fingers during the day, one at the top and one at the bottom of the street, sometimes you get the same one migrating up the street to sit outside of the posh new jewellery store until the nice people at the branded coffee outlet oposite give him a cuppa, then he dissapears.
Only problem Stonegate has with begging on a night time is the one legged chap who plays the harmonica badly all night long on a weekend and disturbs the sounds of the quite talented busker!
NO evidence of drugs whatsoever being sold, just scaremongering to whip up sympathy
She said shopkeepers often had to clean up bin bags of litter to clean up on a morning.
Err NO that would be nothing to do with the beggars, more to do with the drunks on a weekend playing bin bag football, and may I also say that walking down stonegate every morning on my way to work as I do it's usually tidier than a lot of other streets in town.
In fact the most mess I have seen down the street for some time was about a fortnight ago when someone stole a load of flyers for a gig and threw them out side Evil Eye.
The Crack Fox, Coming at you, like a razor says...
2:07pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Angry and Frustrated wrote:Sorry, I have to disagree, I live near a homeless shelter and see more than enough homeless people in York, however I do agree with you that a better way to help would be to buy a big issue or a sandwich for a person rather than giving them money which is often saved towards drugs
Lets have a reality check - there are very few "genuine" beggars or homeless people on the streets of York. Newsboy is correct - because York is an outwardly affluent town with large numbers of tourists, we are subjected to "beggar tourism" - they do travel all over, especially from Leeds, Harrogate and Hull. Most have drink or drug problems. Very few are genuinely homeless - all you need do is look at them - if they were homeless, they would have bags filled with stuff etc. Most of them have nothing more than a blanket which is a big indicator that they have no need to beg or portray themselves as homeless. I know this because I used to be employed in this field. The other giveaway is when they sit there texting ot talking on a mobile phone - once again, genuinely homeless/broke people would have sold the phone for bedding or food. The only way of dealing with these beggars is for the police to come down and arrest them - bail conditions can stop them from returning to their haunts. If this was repeated every day for a couple of weeks, the travellers would soon stop coming as it would not be cost effective for them to do so. That, coupled with the CCTV idea should be enough to deter them. However, the police won't do it because they have more "important" things to do like persecuting motorists etc. If the public genuinely want to help homeless people/beggars, then I suggest that they buy the Big Issue off the various sellers around York. Instead of putting money in the hat or cup, but them a cuppa or a sarnie etc. If they are genuinely homeless they be extremely grateful - if they are not, you will be able to tell from the displeasure on their face!!
Janet M, york says...
2:21pm Tue 15 Apr 08
I am also a trader on Stonegate and unfortunatley have to watch this awful chap all day. He DOES deal drugs , he also has a house! I know for a fact that there are NO homeless people in York ! They all have coucil houses or flats and LIVE ON BENEFITS! He gets handed £20.00 and £10.00 pound notes every five minutes and HE IS ON BENEFITS ALSO! He gets handed free Starbucks all day by tourists, and Starbucks find him as much as a problem as the rest of us. He is a CON-MAN and he needs arresting for fraud! Most of us work hard to earn a living, and I know for a fact he gets alot more money than I do!
Keith, York says...
2:23pm Tue 15 Apr 08
bobby_spray wrote:Not that comment. Why would anyone "maon" as you put it about that?
Well the Press also deleted my perfectly reasonable comment about the athlete who crashed her car at 60mph in icy road conditionsNo just your comments. the whole thread has been pulled. Ask 'keith' as he was the one maoning about the comments.
The Crack Fox, Coming at you, like a razor says...
2:27pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Janet M wrote:So if there are no genuinely homeless people in York why is there the need for homeless shelters and centres that provide food for the homeless, open your eyes dont be so naive, of course there are some genuinely homeless people.
I am also a trader on Stonegate and unfortunatley have to watch this awful chap all day. He DOES deal drugs , he also has a house! I know for a fact that there are NO homeless people in York ! They all have coucil houses or flats and LIVE ON BENEFITS! He gets handed £20.00 and £10.00 pound notes every five minutes and HE IS ON BENEFITS ALSO! He gets handed free Starbucks all day by tourists, and Starbucks find him as much as a problem as the rest of us. He is a CON-MAN and he needs arresting for fraud! Most of us work hard to earn a living, and I know for a fact he gets alot more money than I do!
I am aware of the guy you speak of bunt just because he behaves in this way it dosent mean all homeless people do!
Jason, says...
2:27pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Janet you are a wrong, I step over a homeless person sleeping in the car park out at the back of the station most days. I doubt he is there because he enjoys alfresco living.
Bemused, says...
2:32pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Powers for tackling begging:
* Vagrancy Act 1824 (section 3). Enables the arrest of anybody who is begging. It is a recordable offence and carries a level 3 fine (currently £1,000);
* Highways Act 1980 (section 137). If a person willfully obstructs the free passage along a highway they are guilty of an offence. This carries a level 2 fine (currently £00);
* Public Order Act 1986 (section 5). Causing harassment, alarm or distress. This carries a level 3 fine (£1000) or a penalty notice of £80.
Community sentences can currently be imposed when the court considers that the offence is serious enough to warrant that penalty.
Under the Criminal Justice Act 2003, the courts will be able to issue community sentences, rather than fines, for those convicted a fourth time for an offence. This may include community penalties for drug, alcohol and mental health treatment. These powers are scheduled to come into force in late 2004.
In some cases it may be appropriate to use other civil measures, including injunctions under section 222 of the Local Government Act 1972 and anti-social behaviour orders.
This is from the Home Office website, proving once more that all that is needed in York is a proper police force.
Miss Amelia Rate, YORk says...
2:35pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Janet M wrote:If you are so sure this guy is dealing, has a house and is committing benefit fraud you presumably have evidence against so take it to the police (or the pres. As to there being no homeless people in York - where do you get that from? I can assure you there are, again I have seen this through my work.
I am also a trader on Stonegate and unfortunatley have to watch this awful chap all day. He DOES deal drugs , he also has a house! I know for a fact that there are NO homeless people in York ! They all have coucil houses or flats and LIVE ON BENEFITS! He gets handed £20.00 and £10.00 pound notes every five minutes and HE IS ON BENEFITS ALSO! He gets handed free Starbucks all day by tourists, and Starbucks find him as much as a problem as the rest of us. He is a CON-MAN and he needs arresting for fraud! Most of us work hard to earn a living, and I know for a fact he gets alot more money than I do!
Press journalist, says...
2:43pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Comments are now available on 'The high life of a conman' story.
GoodramgateTerrier, York says...
2:44pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Janet M wrote:Is that because you run a pointless souvenir shop which displays the most horrendous tat in it's window, much to the embarrasment of the people of York?
I am also a trader on Stonegate and unfortunatley have to watch this awful chap all day. He DOES deal drugs , he also has a house! I know for a fact that there are NO homeless people in York ! They all have coucil houses or flats and LIVE ON BENEFITS! He gets handed £20.00 and £10.00 pound notes every five minutes and HE IS ON BENEFITS ALSO! He gets handed free Starbucks all day by tourists, and Starbucks find him as much as a problem as the rest of us. He is a CON-MAN and he needs arresting for fraud! Most of us work hard to earn a living, and I know for a fact he gets alot more money than I do!
ok so that was rather a facetious point on my behalf but your claim is at best ludicrous. Do you know how hard it actually is to get on the housing list even with a job let alone without on?
If he was dealing drugs then the random searches he is subjected to by the police would uncover this and he would be arrested properly, and this..
"But all that happens when we call is that a PSCO (police community support officer) comes down and moves him on, but unfortunately two seconds later he returns and starts it all over again."
would not occur
ranger21, big gaff near york says...
2:56pm Tue 15 Apr 08
bloke tried to flog the 'big issue' today.
i said 'whats that for then'
he replies 'the homeless'
i says 'sorry mate,no use to me coz i've got a nice big gaff'.
laugh? i nearly passed me fags round.
bless em.
i said 'whats that for then'
he replies 'the homeless'
i says 'sorry mate,no use to me coz i've got a nice big gaff'.
laugh? i nearly passed me fags round.
bless em.
TitsMcGee, Selby says...
3:19pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Jason wrote:What and give them a bed for the night. Round 'em up and shoot 'em, that's what i say!!
I don't suppose they might consider arresting them might they. A revolutionary approach.
purpleronnie, Fully, York says...
3:41pm Tue 15 Apr 08
A bit harsh!
Like the others have said - if this fella is dealing drugs every 5 minutes - surely the searches and PSCO's will have uncovered them eventually?
I also know for a fact that there are genuine homeless people living on the streets of York - you just have to look at the station at 6:30 in the morning to see.
Like the others have said - if this fella is dealing drugs every 5 minutes - surely the searches and PSCO's will have uncovered them eventually?
I also know for a fact that there are genuine homeless people living on the streets of York - you just have to look at the station at 6:30 in the morning to see.
Bemused, says...
3:45pm Tue 15 Apr 08
surely the searches and PSCO's will have uncovered them eventually?
Is this a joke?
Angry and Frustrated, York says...
3:54pm Tue 15 Apr 08
The Crack Fox wrote:You have misinterpreted my comments. I am NOT saying that there are no homeless people in York. I am also NOT having a go at homeless people. What I AM saying is that average beggar on the streets of York is neither homeless or local. They are "professional" beggars who will travel to make money. That is why I made the point about bags etc. Those beggars with loads of bags etc are more likeley to be homeless as they are carrying their worldly goods around with them and hence, a more genuine "beggar". Those that merely have themselves and a blanket are most likely to be your con-men looking to make a quick buck.
Angry and Frustrated wrote: Lets have a reality check - there are very few "genuine" beggars or homeless people on the streets of York. Newsboy is correct - because York is an outwardly affluent town with large numbers of tourists, we are subjected to "beggar tourism" - they do travel all over, especially from Leeds, Harrogate and Hull. Most have drink or drug problems. Very few are genuinely homeless - all you need do is look at them - if they were homeless, they would have bags filled with stuff etc. Most of them have nothing more than a blanket which is a big indicator that they have no need to beg or portray themselves as homeless. I know this because I used to be employed in this field. The other giveaway is when they sit there texting ot talking on a mobile phone - once again, genuinely homeless/broke people would have sold the phone for bedding or food. The only way of dealing with these beggars is for the police to come down and arrest them - bail conditions can stop them from returning to their haunts. If this was repeated every day for a couple of weeks, the travellers would soon stop coming as it would not be cost effective for them to do so. That, coupled with the CCTV idea should be enough to deter them. However, the police won't do it because they have more "important" things to do like persecuting motorists etc. If the public genuinely want to help homeless people/beggars, then I suggest that they buy the Big Issue off the various sellers around York. Instead of putting money in the hat or cup, but them a cuppa or a sarnie etc. If they are genuinely homeless they be extremely grateful - if they are not, you will be able to tell from the displeasure on their face!!Sorry, I have to disagree, I live near a homeless shelter and see more than enough homeless people in York, however I do agree with you that a better way to help would be to buy a big issue or a sandwich for a person rather than giving them money which is often saved towards drugs
purpleronnie, Fully, York says...
3:55pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Bemused - Yeah, I lost my train of thought!
Be, Scotland says...
4:48pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Miss A Rate you are definatley to soft on these beggars they have not got any psychiatric problems in fact half of them are clogging up B.Park claiming to be mentally ill and denying places for geniune cases.If you tossed into there cup,a sarnie or food ,you would get a very expletive response.If you want to help the homeless support the people who sell the big issue and are helping themselves.
MrParrot, york says...
7:28pm Tue 15 Apr 08
David wrote:This sums up the ignorant attitude of most people who comment on this site. How does being addicted to drugs make them worthless scum? Plenty want to change, plenty want a home, a living and not to be dependant on drugs. There are reasons why people take heroin. Arresting them for begging will go absolutely no way in solving these issues. Even you put them in prison, which would be absolutely ridiculous, they would come out in an even more desperate state.
Everybody body with any sense know this already - its only the do-gooding idiots who keep talking about the poor oppressed homeless who prevent real action being taken. Just walk around town and you can see straight away that most of the beggers are junkies from a hundred yards. Most are worthless scum who have no intention of getting better or finding work.
As for the person that states they know for a fact that there are no homless people in york, its like denying the war! There ARE lots of people who sleep rough. I personally know one person who had been sleeping on the streets for about six years. Yes, on the streets, regardless of weather. They cannot get housed by the council as they are not deemed a priority i.e. have children, fleeing violence, severe mental illness. Yet they have many many other problems. The Council continue to restrict their criteria the more the government fails to invest in social housing. If a heroin addict begs, it often means they wont need to go theiving to fund their habit. Is it a less of two evils? I think so. How will you stop begging? By arresting them, moving them on? Of course, not. How will you stop a heroin addict who had a 40 pound a day habit from stealing and / or begging? Not by arresting them. The answer, and ONLY answer is treatment, is housing, is hope, is for any and all of their problems whether they be mental, childhood traumas, relationships etc etc to be addressed.
Littlepoo, Washington, DC (ex pat) says...
7:33pm Tue 15 Apr 08
I hate to say it but over here, when a homeless guy was giving a lot of abuse when people walked past and didn't give him anything, he got punched in the face by someone I know and he never bothered us again!
TooRad, york says...
7:42pm Tue 15 Apr 08
Oh dear me, some uptight traders let their fevered imaginations run riot and look what happens!
Especially Janet M with all the hysterical bold typing. If you are working so hard Janet, how do you know so much about these beggars? Shouldn't you be getting on with your job? I've seen firsthand how uptight traders' associations can be - yeah so your business rates are high, big deal, what's the difference between conning tourists out of cuppas and pennies, and conning tourists into buying minster cups and yorkshire tea towels?
And if you know for a fact that there are no homeless in York then I also know for a fact that Santa Claus pays the Tooth Fairy in crack to go joyriding in UFOs.
I'm in town every day, and I see the same old faces every day. None of them are ever aggressive or intimidating, they are usually too fkd up. I see a lot of them buying drugs but rarely do I see them selling. You can tell the dealers - they're a little better dressed cos they're making money.
The ones on Stonegate usually go there for a bit of a nod, after they've scored.
But if traders from our much prized historic Stonegate want to claim drug-dealing beggars are leading teenagers astray when what they really mean is they feel that business rates are too high for them to make a profit then who are we to deny them their scapegoat?
Especially Janet M with all the hysterical bold typing. If you are working so hard Janet, how do you know so much about these beggars? Shouldn't you be getting on with your job? I've seen firsthand how uptight traders' associations can be - yeah so your business rates are high, big deal, what's the difference between conning tourists out of cuppas and pennies, and conning tourists into buying minster cups and yorkshire tea towels?
And if you know for a fact that there are no homeless in York then I also know for a fact that Santa Claus pays the Tooth Fairy in crack to go joyriding in UFOs.
I'm in town every day, and I see the same old faces every day. None of them are ever aggressive or intimidating, they are usually too fkd up. I see a lot of them buying drugs but rarely do I see them selling. You can tell the dealers - they're a little better dressed cos they're making money.
The ones on Stonegate usually go there for a bit of a nod, after they've scored.
But if traders from our much prized historic Stonegate want to claim drug-dealing beggars are leading teenagers astray when what they really mean is they feel that business rates are too high for them to make a profit then who are we to deny them their scapegoat?
Gardener, New Zealand says...
8:52pm Tue 15 Apr 08
..why can't they get it sorted? Pay your money and things get taken care of, just like medieval times with the guilds..
Brian, york says...
9:40am Wed 16 Apr 08
Dont know what the answer on this one is, if its that bad would a multi agency aproach looking at each one and ways to get them out of that situation work,I avoid them myself although would not begrudge the genuine homeless a hot drink or sarnie like some,Have noticed one thing the lads selling the big issue could teach some {not all} shop staff a thing or to in customer skills dept.
maryjane, york says...
12:20pm Wed 16 Apr 08
MrParrot wrote:gosh, someone who actually recognises that there are worse people in the world than drug addicts. how does being addicted to something make a person 'scum'? it's such a judgemental thing to say and glaringly obvious that eventually, a heroin addiction isn't something to do for fun...
David wrote: Everybody body with any sense know this already - its only the do-gooding idiots who keep talking about the poor oppressed homeless who prevent real action being taken. Just walk around town and you can see straight away that most of the beggers are junkies from a hundred yards. Most are worthless scum who have no intention of getting better or finding work.This sums up the ignorant attitude of most people who comment on this site. How does being addicted to drugs make them worthless scum? Plenty want to change, plenty want a home, a living and not to be dependant on drugs. There are reasons why people take heroin. Arresting them for begging will go absolutely no way in solving these issues. Even you put them in prison, which would be absolutely ridiculous, they would come out in an even more desperate state. As for the person that states they know for a fact that there are no homless people in york, its like denying the war! There ARE lots of people who sleep rough. I personally know one person who had been sleeping on the streets for about six years. Yes, on the streets, regardless of weather. They cannot get housed by the council as they are not deemed a priority i.e. have children, fleeing violence, severe mental illness. Yet they have many many other problems. The Council continue to restrict their criteria the more the government fails to invest in social housing. If a heroin addict begs, it often means they wont need to go theiving to fund their habit. Is it a less of two evils? I think so. How will you stop begging? By arresting them, moving them on? Of course, not. How will you stop a heroin addict who had a 40 pound a day habit from stealing and / or begging? Not by arresting them. The answer, and ONLY answer is treatment, is housing, is hope, is for any and all of their problems whether they be mental, childhood traumas, relationships etc etc to be addressed.
Bemused, York says...
1:21pm Thu 17 Apr 08
Posted by: Gardener, New Zealand on 8:52pm Tue 15 Apr 08
..why can't they get it sorted? Pay your money and things get taken care of, just like medieval times with the guilds..
That's the Belfast way, substitute para-militaries for guilds. I think it was late last year that they tarred and feathered a drug dealer in a main street. It's one way ...
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RetiredBobby, says...
10:41am Tue 15 Apr 08