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Landlords’ fear over smoke ban

9:14am Saturday 2nd December 2006

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PUBS in York which lack the space to create outside areas for punters are in danger of "going to the wall" when the new smoking ban comes into force next summer, a landlord has warned.

The warning comes as city landlords look ahead and consider how to deal with the change in a bid to keep customers and trade.

The Government has set July 1, as the date for the ban in England and Wales, which means virtually all enclosed public places and workplaces will become smoke-free environments.

It will include offices, factories, shops, pubs, bars, restaurants, membership clubs, public transport and work vehicles used by more than one person.

The date has triggered a mixed reaction among licencees across York.

Dave Headley, manager of The Bay Horse, Blossom Street, said: "A lot of our customers smoke so we would need an outside heated shelter area. We have been quoted about £4,000 which is a considerable amount. As a small business it will affect trade.

"A lot of pubs don't have the space for that. Places without an outside area are really going to struggle. It is a shame. I think a few pubs will go to the wall over this."

Danny Cousins, landlord of The Fox, Holgate Road, said his pub was a listed building which might pose problems as they try to create an outside patio area for smokers. But he said it was a necessary step.

"Everyone here smokes. When you collect ashtrays they are full of fag ends," he said. "Customers are frustrated by the ban. We all thought we might be able to keep perhaps one room for smokers, but that's not the case.

"People are not happy about it. I don't know what effect it will have on trade."

Jim Hardie, of The Blue Bell, on Fossgate, said: "We are a very small pub with no backyard or garden, so if anyone wants to smoke they will have to stand outside. I can't put an awning up because it is a grade-II listed building."

However, he was confident smoke-free pubs would attract more business, not less.

"I think this pub will just get busier. It is small and pretty smoky. We have air purifiers, but there's only one door so it doesn't circulate well."

Rachel Johns, a director of Public Health with North Yorkshire and York Primary Care Trust (PCT), said: "This is a really important piece of legislation. Breathing in someone else's smoke can dramatically increase your risk of developing some serious health conditions, such as heart or lung disease."

Sean Suckling, Food And Safety unit manager, City of York Council, said: "Now the Government has confirmed the launch date, we will be working with the Selby and York Primary Care Trust to prepare guidance for the 5,000 businesses in York that may be affected by the ban."


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DG, says...
9:23am Sat 2 Dec 06

well I for one might actually visit a pub again. Can't wait for the ban to begin. Bring it on !

Tk, says...
9:45am Sat 2 Dec 06

All Mr Headley from the Bay Horse needs to do is spend the £4000, shove the grotty smokers outside, and inside the pub with be busier than it has ever been! He will recoup the £4000 within the first few weeks!!

ChrisB, says...
10:04am Sat 2 Dec 06

Rachel Johns is quoting the usual 'dramatic increase' statement we keep hearing. This increase is actually one of about 2.5 people in 100,000. Government wanted this legislation and dismissed all thoughts of community, individual or commercial harm.
They show themselves incapable of allowing 14 million people from enjoying a legal pastime within 4 walls.
There were many sensible options that other countries have adopted but the minotity of anti-smokers have had it all their own way.
Sign the petition at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/smokers-united/

Tk, says...
10:23am Sat 2 Dec 06

ChrisB - it is not a minority of anti-smokers that have had it all their own way. It is the majority of the population, whether anti-smoking or not, who find smokey environments horrible, smelly and totally unpleasant to the point that they cannot use the facilities that the minority (smokers) spoil. Whether the increase in risk of suffering health problems is dramatic or not in irrelevant. If there is any increase, then action should rightly be taken, and it is being. By the way, don't waste your time filling in the petition, you are too late - unlucky!!

anon, says...
11:58am Sat 2 Dec 06

tuff titties to all you smoking bleaters , you may all love smelling like an ash tray , but we dont & weve won , so shut up & give up or drink at home !!!!

Vic, says...
12:58pm Sat 2 Dec 06

Should it not be the choice of the land lord whether or not to impose a total ban or set aside a smoking room or even not change anything. Mine is a rural pub and the majority of my customers are smokers, those who don't smoke don't complain as that's what you expect from a pub! Surely.

Tk, says...
1:42pm Sat 2 Dec 06

Vic - have you ever considered that the only reason that the majority of your customers smoke, is that the rest of the people in the area (who are the majority of local residents) can't bear to spend time in the stinking hole you run which has been taken over by the minority?? As regards 'expecting that from a pub', if people want to pay inflated prices only to sit in an atmosphere where their eyes water, they struggle to breathe and have to wash all their clothes after each visit, then maybe you're right........

Ash, says...
4:10pm Sat 2 Dec 06

I am a lifelong non-smoker and never intend to start. I hate smoking with a passion, and yet I am opposed to this ban. It should be the landlord's choice as to how they deal with smokers in their pubs. And besides, who are this government to enforce such laws on the public? Are we in some sort of nanny state? Father-knows-best? It's ridiculous that people aren't even given enough respect to judge what they do or do not do to their own bodies! I hate passive smoking. You know what I do? I move away to somewhere else in the room. Oho, wow, that was difficult. Some people (our government and our mentally unsafe health and safety workers) should just get a grip. Either make smoking 100% illegal and have done with it (oops, won't do that because won't get tax revenue! :o ), or shut up and just accept that people are going to smoke. It's their body, and what gives anyone the right to stop them if they want to?

anon, says...
5:07pm Sat 2 Dec 06

ash , please note that weve nothing agains people smoking yup its thier choice , but when they smoke in a pub it is FORCING US TO BREATH IT IN AS WELL WHERE ARE OUR RIGHTS , any way you can moan as much as you like cos come 1 july they have dipped yippeeee

Brit ex pat, says...
8:41pm Sat 2 Dec 06

The non smoking ban in all public places is great news. Now when I visit my family in England I will be able to enjoy a drink in the local without stinking like an old ashtray.
Don't worry, you smokers out there will soon get used to it after a while.

Leo, says...
9:31pm Sat 2 Dec 06

It's their body, and what gives anyone the right to stop them if they want to?


The fact that the smoke from their cigarettes can affect other people's bodies. You can't get liver disease by keeping me company while I drink a G & T: but (the majority of scientific opinion holds) you can get lung cancer by breathing in the smoke from my ****.

That having been said, I think a complete ban is a little heavy-handed. I'd have prefered to see a law that says that if a publican wishes to provide a smoking area, it has to be totally segregated (as in, airtight) from the rest of the bar, and staff have the right to refuse to set foot in it. If the publican is willing to invest in the building works and can find staff who are willing to work in there, then I don't feel that the government has any right to stop him from providing a smoking area.

Ash, says...
11:21pm Sat 2 Dec 06

You misunderstand me. I despise smoking as a whole. My parents smoke, a lot of my friends smoke, and I am frequently caught in the Cloud of Death. However, I still don't see why the government should have any say in how landlords run their pubs, nor why those landlords should be forced to have a legal obligation to deny smokers even so much as a segregated smoking area or room that they may indulge in their other habit besides a quiet pint.
Granted, I appreciate that there are those who find it distasteful to breathe in the smoke (I am one of those people, I hasten to add), and I do feel for the bar staff. However, I disagree when you say allowing people to smoke in pubs is in any way forcing you to breathe it in. Just do what I do, and move away. Feel for me, who must walk through the living-room of two fifty-a-day parents whenever I am present in the room. Do you think that a law should be passed prohibiting them from smoking in a home they've bought and paid for for over twenty years? I don't.

If the Government is so anti-smoking and trying to make it look bad, the best way would be, as I said before, to make it completely illegal. The reason they won't is because they make too much tax revenue on it to do so (can't make tax off an illegal substance, can you, or else that would make you accessory to the crime). The government really loves the fact people smoke, but they put on a face that says they don't. They know people will pay a fiver a packet, so they make them do so. I also read that this ban will cost £50m. I wonder how much of that will come out of the cigarette tax. Oh, the delicious irony. Smokers are paying to be segregated. God how I love to hate this country...

Tk, says...
5:27am Sun 3 Dec 06

For all those who think that 'smoking rooms' or 'smoking areas' should be set aside, it is impossible to set anything that contains smoke 'aside'. Unless it is airtight from the rest of the buiding with its own entry/exit door, then it is pointless. Ask the fire brigade about how far and widespread smoke damage occurs in relation to where a fire takes place. I have lost count of the number of restaurants I have been to where I have been shown to a supposedly 'non-smoking area', only to discover that the only difference is a sign on the table which is clouded by the same smoke which is wafting around the rest of the place!

Wendy, says...
6:34am Mon 4 Dec 06

My only gripe is that it's taking so long to bring in the ban. I hate going out and having to share space with smokers. If a restaurant or pub is smoky we walk out again and find another place to go. Recently I visited a pub which had a no smoking policy and the pub was full to overflowing.
I want to be able to go out without being restricted because of smokers.

Roy Andrew, says...
1:15pm Mon 4 Dec 06

As an independent publican I ought to be allowed to run my business as I see fit so long as I stay within the law. Its all about choice , anyone has a chioce to in to a smoking public area. This ban is expected to close forever 3000 British pubs at least , thousands of jobs will be lost & the smoking issue will move to people's houses where they may well smoke in a non ventilated environment & quite possibly with thier children present... The "problem " won't go away , it will simply move to another location. Smoking rates have increased in Ireland since the ban, cigarette sales are up ... Smoking bans do not work on many levels.... Labour toild the Electorate that a smoking COMPROMISE was the way forward in their 05 manifesto but once they were in they caved in to pressure from fellow MPs & organisations & flip flopped on this promise..... Some would say they told utter lies.
Paul Andrew , Exeter

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