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Call for end to ‘rat-run’ misery (From York Press)
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Call for end to ‘rat-run’ misery in Clifton
9:07am Wednesday 10th October 2012 in News
DOZENS of York residents are calling for action to tackle “rat-run” traffic in their streets.
More than 80 people living in The Avenue and Westminster Road in Clifton have signed a petition calling on the city council to take action.
Coun David Scott, who will present the petition at a council meeting tomorrow night, said the return of the left-turn filter lane at Clifton Green had eased traffic flow, but traffic had doubled in The Avenue and Westminster Road, leading to more noise, pollution and aggressive driving.
He said: “Residents tell me more than 1,500 vehicles now use this route, causing them real concerns over safety and quality of life.”
Comments(36)
roskoboskovic
says...
9:09am Wed 10 Oct 12
snugglebunny
says...
9:13am Wed 10 Oct 12
Even on a Sat morning at 0800,Bootham can be at a standstill while dropping off takes place.
A designated Park and Ride for the schools would improve the situation no end and help all and not just the locals
BL2
says...
9:31am Wed 10 Oct 12
Pete the Brickie
says...
9:40am Wed 10 Oct 12
The Great Buda
says...
9:40am Wed 10 Oct 12
Silver
says...
9:44am Wed 10 Oct 12
Gary Gilmores Eyes
says...
9:47am Wed 10 Oct 12
Caveat Emptor – Let buyer beware. They bought the house in the street, surely they should have thought about many things being doing so!
What is probably a bigger issue is the ‘rat run’ of the little rich kids being dropped off by mummy or daddy at the private school in the household Range Rover V8 when they should really be walking!
Quote safety concerns to hopefully get it put to the top of the agenda? Nice trick if it works, except it does not.
Out of pure devilment I would argue that the Westminster Road ‘Rat Run’ serves as a valuable alternative for the busy junction at Clifton green and should be promoted as a viable alternative for traffic!
Even AndyD
says...
9:49am Wed 10 Oct 12
The Great Buda wrote:Disagree with that. If a residential street ends up like a trunk road - that isn't right. Imagine an arterial road near you and then place its traffic on a quiet terraced street - sometimes it really isn't on. But in this particular instance, the residents already have the (high!) speed-bumps and when I use that road (we visit the Glen before anyone starts), I can't say its anything out of the ordinary.
There is no such thing as a rat run.
lancysteve
says...
10:22am Wed 10 Oct 12
ive driving'?? that's impossible with the size of them humps, 'noise'....very possible with the state of the roads especially the Avenue, exactly what can they do about it? if they are not happy....move!!
davew17
says...
10:41am Wed 10 Oct 12
ZachCohen
says...
11:24am Wed 10 Oct 12
I agree if they want the road closing they should all buy the road from the council and they can then do what they like.
again
says...
11:28am Wed 10 Oct 12
Woody G Mellor wrote:Not people?
And I thought that roads were primarily built for cars.
again
says...
11:33am Wed 10 Oct 12
davew17 wrote:Nobody pays road tax. There is no such tax. Only Vehicle Excise Duty, fuel tax and VAT.
if you pay your road tax you can drive anywhere you like and if you dont like it move.
Your right to use the roads does not include any right to use a motor vehicle. It applies only to pedestrians and cyclists. You must pay for the privilege of using a motor vehicle. And why not?
yorkshirelad
says...
1:59pm Wed 10 Oct 12
It seems to me the congestion and queuing is just as bad as ever...it was nearly queued back to Poppleton Road the other day!
So apart from compromising cyclists safety, and perhaps getting a handful of extra votes for David Scott, what has really been achieved by spending thousands of pounds to destroy part of the orbital cycle network?
pedalling paul
says...
2:07pm Wed 10 Oct 12
yorkshirelad wrote:Precisely....! Maybe JA will live to regret his three line whip handling of his colleagues on this matter. .
I wonder if David Scott might consider the effect of trashing a decent bit of cycle route there. Is it just possible that some of these people are now in cars contributing to the queues?
It seems to me the congestion and queuing is just as bad as ever...it was nearly queued back to Poppleton Road the other day!
So apart from compromising cyclists safety, and perhaps getting a handful of extra votes for David Scott, what has really been achieved by spending thousands of pounds to destroy part of the orbital cycle network?
Guy Fawkes
says...
4:15pm Wed 10 Oct 12
If a residential street ends up like a trunk road - that isn't right.
Are you trying to suggest that no-one should drive on any road with homes by the side of it other than for the purpose of going to or from one of those homes?
As for the Westminster Road residents, I wonder how many of them own cars themselves and have driven through other residential streets in them?
This reminds me of driving on the back road from Shipton to Tollerton a few weeks ago. I was aggressively tailgated by a moron in a BMW all the way, and then when I slowed to observe the 30-limit through the village he flashed at me, honked his horn and tailgated me aggressively as we passed a load of propaganda posters on the lamp posts about driving carefully and having respect for local residents. And then he turned into a driveway in the village! This suggests to me that the residents of these pretty neighbourhoods are very keen to have speed limits, camel humps and other restrictions imposed on other people, but they sure as hell don't like it up 'em when it comes to observing them themselves.
powerwatt
says...
4:27pm Wed 10 Oct 12
MrChuckles
says...
4:51pm Wed 10 Oct 12
However...
This road rubbish isn't just a NIMBY issue. This is because, as a driver... this area is a f*cking pain in the ****! End of. It ennoys me, BUT only so much can be done. We have to get from A-B for work and study commitments and York was never designed for this volume of traffic. Its a catch-22, like the flooding, where we solve the problem in one area, it will always move somewhere else and cost money as a result. Sometimes in life we just have to deal with things that we don't like. NIMBY attitudes and trying to wrap our little perfect lives in cotton wool is detrimental for everyone.
Jazzper
says...
4:57pm Wed 10 Oct 12
pedalling paul wrote:Pull the other one Paul!...traffic flows much better now since left lane has been put back. You must be one of a tiny minority who thinks other wise.
yorkshirelad wrote:Precisely....! Maybe JA will live to regret his three line whip handling of his colleagues on this matter. .
I wonder if David Scott might consider the effect of trashing a decent bit of cycle route there. Is it just possible that some of these people are now in cars contributing to the queues?
It seems to me the congestion and queuing is just as bad as ever...it was nearly queued back to Poppleton Road the other day!
So apart from compromising cyclists safety, and perhaps getting a handful of extra votes for David Scott, what has really been achieved by spending thousands of pounds to destroy part of the orbital cycle network?
Even AndyD
says...
6:38pm Wed 10 Oct 12
Guy Fawkes wrote:Not at all, I'm suggesting that if a quiet residential road suddenly gets traffic volume that (say) Tadcaster Rd gets, then really something has failed somewhere.
If a residential street ends up like a trunk road - that isn't right.
Are you trying to suggest that no-one should drive on any road with homes by the side of it other than for the purpose of going to or from one of those homes?
As for the Westminster Road residents, I wonder how many of them own cars themselves and have driven through other residential streets in them?
This reminds me of driving on the back road from Shipton to Tollerton a few weeks ago. I was aggressively tailgated by a moron in a BMW all the way, and then when I slowed to observe the 30-limit through the village he flashed at me, honked his horn and tailgated me aggressively as we passed a load of propaganda posters on the lamp posts about driving carefully and having respect for local residents. And then he turned into a driveway in the village! This suggests to me that the residents of these pretty neighbourhoods are very keen to have speed limits, camel humps and other restrictions imposed on other people, but they sure as hell don't like it up 'em when it comes to observing them themselves.
Traffic planning should be structured to encourage heavy volumes onto arterial roads. When your average suburbian avenue looks like the A1, then I'd suggest that helps nobody. Who wants to queue down a narrow street - who wants to live on the A1?
Buzz Light-year
says...
6:44pm Wed 10 Oct 12
again wrote:Yes.
davew17 wrote: if you pay your road tax you can drive anywhere you like and if you dont like it move.Nobody pays road tax. There is no such tax. Only Vehicle Excise Duty, fuel tax and VAT. Your right to use the roads does not include any right to use a motor vehicle. It applies only to pedestrians and cyclists. You must pay for the privilege of using a motor vehicle. And why not?
In other words pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders use the roads by right of way, motorists do so under licence.
According to some cranks what you and I just said is dangerous nonsense.
bob the builder
says...
7:08pm Wed 10 Oct 12
Pedro
says...
7:12pm Wed 10 Oct 12
pedalling paul
says...
7:34pm Wed 10 Oct 12
Jazzper wrote:I felt like the meat in a sandwich when I pedalled through the site this evening...very daunting and offputting for less experienced cyclists.
pedalling paul wrote:Pull the other one Paul!...traffic flows much better now since left lane has been put back. You must be one of a tiny minority who thinks other wise.
yorkshirelad wrote:Precisely....! Maybe JA will live to regret his three line whip handling of his colleagues on this matter. .
I wonder if David Scott might consider the effect of trashing a decent bit of cycle route there. Is it just possible that some of these people are now in cars contributing to the queues?
It seems to me the congestion and queuing is just as bad as ever...it was nearly queued back to Poppleton Road the other day!
So apart from compromising cyclists safety, and perhaps getting a handful of extra votes for David Scott, what has really been achieved by spending thousands of pounds to destroy part of the orbital cycle network?
Why fly in the face of York's LTP which seeks to sensibly reduce car dependancy.
I note comments about tailbacks to Poppy Road, and increased rat running. Join me in a year at the back of the peak queue. Let's see if it is as bad or even worse.
I await the outcome with interest, of a Met Police enquiry into TfL's redesign of a junction in London, which allegedly contributed to a cyclist fatality. Corporate manslaughter may yet be determined, with implications for other UK Local Authorities.
AnotherPointofView
says...
9:28pm Wed 10 Oct 12
again wrote:No, people should stick to the pavements, rather than the roads.
Woody G Mellor wrote:Not people?
And I thought that roads were primarily built for cars.
Cars, buses and lorries trundle past my house night and day, it's not a problem. Surely there are more important things in life, rather than moaning about a few cars driving past your house.
davew17
says...
10:32pm Wed 10 Oct 12
again wrote:ok nob head
davew17 wrote: if you pay your road tax you can drive anywhere you like and if you dont like it move.Nobody pays road tax. There is no such tax. Only Vehicle Excise Duty, fuel tax and VAT. Your right to use the roads does not include any right to use a motor vehicle. It applies only to pedestrians and cyclists. You must pay for the privilege of using a motor vehicle. And why not?
davew17
says...
10:34pm Wed 10 Oct 12
davew17 wrote:ok vehicle tax u tit
again wrote:ok nob headdavew17 wrote: if you pay your road tax you can drive anywhere you like and if you dont like it move.Nobody pays road tax. There is no such tax. Only Vehicle Excise Duty, fuel tax and VAT. Your right to use the roads does not include any right to use a motor vehicle. It applies only to pedestrians and cyclists. You must pay for the privilege of using a motor vehicle. And why not?
davew17
says...
10:38pm Wed 10 Oct 12
again wrote:u knew what i ment to much time on your hands get a job nob head
davew17 wrote: if you pay your road tax you can drive anywhere you like and if you dont like it move.Nobody pays road tax. There is no such tax. Only Vehicle Excise Duty, fuel tax and VAT. Your right to use the roads does not include any right to use a motor vehicle. It applies only to pedestrians and cyclists. You must pay for the privilege of using a motor vehicle. And why not?
Yorkie-Clifton
says...
12:56am Thu 11 Oct 12
I agree with the Residents of Westminster Road in their objections , i only wish i had been approached to sign their petition . I am a resident of Clifton and find this new so called rat run silly . It will not serve the car driver any benefit but it has become the -- Thing to Do , At the junction of The Avenue and Westminster Road -- Who has the right of way ??? - It is a danger to all road and pedestrians .All this evolved to help the cyclist who didn't use the cycle track , They now use the pavements . THIS IS THE TRUTH ,
Magicman!
says...
3:12am Thu 11 Oct 12
{/sarcasm}
yorkshirelad
says...
9:48am Thu 11 Oct 12
It's absolute nonsense that squeezing two lanes in has made any significant difference.
Er...and if it had, how is it that we are still seeing these stories about 'rat run misery'?
Jazzper
says...
2:00pm Thu 11 Oct 12
yorkshirelad wrote:We are still seeing these stories because it makes 'a good story' for The Press. It is obvious that the editor likes to publish anything with the slightest hint of car/cycle conflict. The truth is most of us don't complain, and just get on with it. These stories are just what Peddling P and Yorkshirelad are waiting for,as they are always open for comments, and give them a platform to spout their usual tripe!
Well... Water End looks pretty congested to me and in fact I saw it as bad as I've ever seen it one day last week. I reckon Clifton both ways and Water Lane are even worse.
It's absolute nonsense that squeezing two lanes in has made any significant difference.
Er...and if it had, how is it that we are still seeing these stories about 'rat run misery'?
It is blatantly obvious that the left lane reinstatement has made a difference, whilst not completely curing congestion due to the sheer volume of traffic at peak times. This will always remain a problem as long work/schools etc. start and finish at the same time. I sure that's why its called 'rush hour'....maybe it should be re named 'slow hour' !
oldgoat
says...
2:54pm Thu 11 Oct 12
yorkshirelad wrote:Load of rubbish.
I wonder if David Scott might consider the effect of trashing a decent bit of cycle route there. Is it just possible that some of these people are now in cars contributing to the queues?
It seems to me the congestion and queuing is just as bad as ever...it was nearly queued back to Poppleton Road the other day!
So apart from compromising cyclists safety, and perhaps getting a handful of extra votes for David Scott, what has really been achieved by spending thousands of pounds to destroy part of the orbital cycle network?
Cycle lanes crammed into spaces that aren't there in the first place are a problem. Getting rid of them is not.
As most road in York do not have cycle paths/lanes on or near them, and cycling remains very popular in York, the arguments do not stack up.
The only way cyclists compromise their own safety is by being foolish. Use the road, be aware of traffic and respect other road users, and you cannot go wrong.
margesimpson!!
says...
8:48pm Thu 11 Oct 12
Magicman!
says...
12:13am Wed 17 Oct 12
It is blatantly obvious that the left lane reinstatement has made a difference, whilst not completely curing congestion due to the sheer volume of traffic at peak timeserr, no. The left hand lane itself has not made any difference. what HAs made the difference is the council fiddling with the timing of the traffic lights to give Water End more time on green and less time on red, at the cost of more time on red for Shipton Road and the A19.... which the council could have done in the first place at a cost of no more than £200 instead of spending £1200 creating a bigger hazard for the emergency services and making things less safe for the less experienced cyclists in the city. If the council had just changed the light timings and not said anything, people might have got curious as to why things were suddenly moving better... but no, make a big song and dance, spend a lot of money doing the equivalent of using plastic explosives to get rid of a spider, over the top and not required and just a huge waste of money.
Oldgoat
Cycle lanes crammed into spaces that aren't there in the first place are a problem. Getting rid of them is not.
As most road in York do not have cycle paths/lanes on or near them, and cycling remains very popular in York, the arguments do not stack up.
Some of this I agree with. Roads such as Huntington Road (from Bell Farm northwards), Strensall road in Huntington, and York Road in Haxby all have cycle lanes that are less that the DfT minimum specified width, which is 150cm. (Huntington Road goes down to as little as 60cm, Strensall Road goes down to 40cm - which is less than the width of a bike! and York Road Haxby goes down to roughly 50cm) All of these mentioned cycle lanes are actually more dangerous than not having a cycle lane there at all, as scientific tests have been carried out which show that where there is a line dividing cyclists from motor cars, the drivers of the cars will pass at a quicker speed and closer to the cyclist than they would if the white line was not there (due to the line creating, in the drivers mind, a physical seperation between bike and car, in the same way as a kerb edge seperates car and pedestrian)... and in such cases I do believe such lanes should either be removed or have the road widended to accommodate a cycle lane that is actually legal.
The cycle lane where it actually was on the road in Water End did meet the minimum width requirement, and as such made it safe for less experienced cyclists to use. The road space was there by removing an underused traffic lane (as straight ahead and right-turning traffic blocked access to the left turn lane) to promote cycling amongst those less likely to tae it up: families and women.
As for 'cycling remains very popular in York' despite a lot of road not having cycle lanes - I think there is a one word answer to that little quandry: Firstgroup!!
Woody G Mellor says...
9:09am Wed 10 Oct 12