City’s 20mph limit ‘works’ (From York Press)

Comparing York with Newcastle? What?? Bunch of clowns. And since when and where did York have a high rate of road accidents?

aha good to see people reclaim the streets from the machines . . .

gurgles wrote:
aha good to see people reclaim the streets from the machines . . .

It's the roads which are in question. And they were built for "the machines" so that people can walk safely on the pavements and cross at designated areas which are put in place at great expense yet not always used because they may be a short walk along the path to get to.

It was'nt working this morning- everyone is still doing 40 down Scarcroft Road between two narrow rows of parked cars near 3 schools ....

Woody G Mellor wrote:

gurgles wrote:
aha good to see people reclaim the streets from the machines . . .

It's the roads which are in question. And they were built for "the machines" so that people can walk safely on the pavements and cross at designated areas which are put in place at great expense yet not always used because they may be a short walk along the path to get to.

How many roads have 'designated' crossing areas? I live in a part of York with 5,000 residents, there isn't one!
Also - you flatten your own argument really, you want a world where people are penned in, funneled to your designated areas, where they stand a chance of not being run over? You want Coney St to be full of cars again too, I imagine?
I'm not anti-car, we have two, but to me it is clear, accidents happen in this random world and slower speed saves lives. It is also clear that across the globe, people are stepping back from the car-rules-over-all mentality and back to pedestrian areas, public transport initiatives etc. This is the way we are going and as the planet becomes even more crowded, its the only way.
All that said, I'm still suspicious of the 20mph proposals simply because I don't see how they will be policed. Money better spent on a proper, well funded, cheap public transport system.

The 20's plenty propaganda machine is in full swing daily.
Stop telling us what we think.

come on show us the figures which can prove that we need these measures.i am not aware of any great number of pedestrians being injured in york and how much do all these new signs and road markings cost.i thought that we were strapped for cash.

Even AndyD wrote:

Woody G Mellor wrote:

gurgles wrote:
aha good to see people reclaim the streets from the machines . . .

It's the roads which are in question. And they were built for "the machines" so that people can walk safely on the pavements and cross at designated areas which are put in place at great expense yet not always used because they may be a short walk along the path to get to.

How many roads have 'designated' crossing areas? I live in a part of York with 5,000 residents, there isn't one!
Also - you flatten your own argument really, you want a world where people are penned in, funneled to your designated areas, where they stand a chance of not being run over? You want Coney St to be full of cars again too, I imagine?
I'm not anti-car, we have two, but to me it is clear, accidents happen in this random world and slower speed saves lives. It is also clear that across the globe, people are stepping back from the car-rules-over-all mentality and back to pedestrian areas, public transport initiatives etc. This is the way we are going and as the planet becomes even more crowded, its the only way.
All that said, I'm still suspicious of the 20mph proposals simply because I don't see how they will be policed. Money better spent on a proper, well funded, cheap public transport system.

I find it hard to believe there are NO designated crossing areas anywhere near where 50000 people live. Where is that Andy?

Penned in? Funnelled? You forget, motorists are pedestrians too. I've never felt penned in or funnelled.

Coney St full of cars again? I remember that well and would never want it back. Please don't accuse me of such things when you don't even know me.

Accidents do happen in this random world as you put it. This is usually due to carelessness from pedestrians and motorists alike. Education is needed not punishment for the considerate motorists so people can cross roads carefree and with a false sense of safety due to these stupid speed limits.

And what about the increased pollution levels this will cause, the expense that we can I'll afford. And all in a city with a low road accident rate.

Woody G Mellor wrote:

Even AndyD wrote:

Woody G Mellor wrote:

gurgles wrote:
aha good to see people reclaim the streets from the machines . . .

It's the roads which are in question. And they were built for "the machines" so that people can walk safely on the pavements and cross at designated areas which are put in place at great expense yet not always used because they may be a short walk along the path to get to.

How many roads have 'designated' crossing areas? I live in a part of York with 5,000 residents, there isn't one!
Also - you flatten your own argument really, you want a world where people are penned in, funneled to your designated areas, where they stand a chance of not being run over? You want Coney St to be full of cars again too, I imagine?
I'm not anti-car, we have two, but to me it is clear, accidents happen in this random world and slower speed saves lives. It is also clear that across the globe, people are stepping back from the car-rules-over-all mentality and back to pedestrian areas, public transport initiatives etc. This is the way we are going and as the planet becomes even more crowded, its the only way.
All that said, I'm still suspicious of the 20mph proposals simply because I don't see how they will be policed. Money better spent on a proper, well funded, cheap public transport system.

I find it hard to believe there are NO designated crossing areas anywhere near where 50000 people live. Where is that Andy?

Penned in? Funnelled? You forget, motorists are pedestrians too. I've never felt penned in or funnelled.

Coney St full of cars again? I remember that well and would never want it back. Please don't accuse me of such things when you don't even know me.

Accidents do happen in this random world as you put it. This is usually due to carelessness from pedestrians and motorists alike. Education is needed not punishment for the considerate motorists so people can cross roads carefree and with a false sense of safety due to these stupid speed limits.

And what about the increased pollution levels this will cause, the expense that we can I'll afford. And all in a city with a low road accident rate.

Sorry 5,000. Typo. My bad.

The article refers to a 20mph 'limit' which is notably different to a 20mph 'zone'.

A speed 'limit' relies on the responsibility of the driver to obey the signed 20mph restrictions and does not involve any physical features such as speed bumps or chicanes.

A 'zone' on the other hand is required to have some form of traffic calming feature every 50 meters and is probably what most of the above motorists complain about.

Please refer to the following website for further information...

http://www.20splenty
forus.org.uk/limits_
or_zones.htm

I drive (albeit as little as possible) but have no problem with 20mph - it will make little or no difference to overall journey times in any city, where average speed is largely decided by congestion and traffic lights.

Woody G Mellor wrote:

Even AndyD wrote:

Woody G Mellor wrote:

gurgles wrote:
aha good to see people reclaim the streets from the machines . . .

It's the roads which are in question. And they were built for "the machines" so that people can walk safely on the pavements and cross at designated areas which are put in place at great expense yet not always used because they may be a short walk along the path to get to.

How many roads have 'designated' crossing areas? I live in a part of York with 5,000 residents, there isn't one!
Also - you flatten your own argument really, you want a world where people are penned in, funneled to your designated areas, where they stand a chance of not being run over? You want Coney St to be full of cars again too, I imagine?
I'm not anti-car, we have two, but to me it is clear, accidents happen in this random world and slower speed saves lives. It is also clear that across the globe, people are stepping back from the car-rules-over-all mentality and back to pedestrian areas, public transport initiatives etc. This is the way we are going and as the planet becomes even more crowded, its the only way.
All that said, I'm still suspicious of the 20mph proposals simply because I don't see how they will be policed. Money better spent on a proper, well funded, cheap public transport system.

I find it hard to believe there are NO designated crossing areas anywhere near where 50000 people live. Where is that Andy?

Penned in? Funnelled? You forget, motorists are pedestrians too. I've never felt penned in or funnelled.

Coney St full of cars again? I remember that well and would never want it back. Please don't accuse me of such things when you don't even know me.

Accidents do happen in this random world as you put it. This is usually due to carelessness from pedestrians and motorists alike. Education is needed not punishment for the considerate motorists so people can cross roads carefree and with a false sense of safety due to these stupid speed limits.

And what about the increased pollution levels this will cause, the expense that we can I'll afford. And all in a city with a low road accident rate.

Agree to disagree, but the Press is full of stories re tragic accidents on our roads, you can't educate people not to have any accidents. My great-gran was killed by a dustbin lorry which went out of control and mounted the pavement she was walking on, yards from her home - stuff happens. How could she have been educated to avoid that?

The point is that accidents will always happen, but if they happen at lower speed, then there is more chance death will be avoided. The stats do prove that - they all agree.

Not sure what percentage of suburban streets have 'designated crossing points' but its got to be a lot less than 1%. Poppleton has about 4-5000 residents, I can't think of one crossing - unless you want to count the railway level crossing! Prior to that I lived in Holgate and the nearest crossing was about a mile away. In your world I'd have had to get in my car and drive to it to be able to cross the road!

City’s 20mph limit ‘works’

No point discussing it on here then.

Even AndyD wrote:

Woody G Mellor wrote:

Even AndyD wrote:

Woody G Mellor wrote:

gurgles wrote:
aha good to see people reclaim the streets from the machines . . .

It's the roads which are in question. And they were built for "the machines" so that people can walk safely on the pavements and cross at designated areas which are put in place at great expense yet not always used because they may be a short walk along the path to get to.

How many roads have 'designated' crossing areas? I live in a part of York with 5,000 residents, there isn't one!
Also - you flatten your own argument really, you want a world where people are penned in, funneled to your designated areas, where they stand a chance of not being run over? You want Coney St to be full of cars again too, I imagine?
I'm not anti-car, we have two, but to me it is clear, accidents happen in this random world and slower speed saves lives. It is also clear that across the globe, people are stepping back from the car-rules-over-all mentality and back to pedestrian areas, public transport initiatives etc. This is the way we are going and as the planet becomes even more crowded, its the only way.
All that said, I'm still suspicious of the 20mph proposals simply because I don't see how they will be policed. Money better spent on a proper, well funded, cheap public transport system.

I find it hard to believe there are NO designated crossing areas anywhere near where 50000 people live. Where is that Andy?

Penned in? Funnelled? You forget, motorists are pedestrians too. I've never felt penned in or funnelled.

Coney St full of cars again? I remember that well and would never want it back. Please don't accuse me of such things when you don't even know me.

Accidents do happen in this random world as you put it. This is usually due to carelessness from pedestrians and motorists alike. Education is needed not punishment for the considerate motorists so people can cross roads carefree and with a false sense of safety due to these stupid speed limits.

And what about the increased pollution levels this will cause, the expense that we can I'll afford. And all in a city with a low road accident rate.

Agree to disagree, but the Press is full of stories re tragic accidents on our roads, you can't educate people not to have any accidents. My great-gran was killed by a dustbin lorry which went out of control and mounted the pavement she was walking on, yards from her home - stuff happens. How could she have been educated to avoid that?

The point is that accidents will always happen, but if they happen at lower speed, then there is more chance death will be avoided. The stats do prove that - they all agree.

Not sure what percentage of suburban streets have 'designated crossing points' but its got to be a lot less than 1%. Poppleton has about 4-5000 residents, I can't think of one crossing - unless you want to count the railway level crossing! Prior to that I lived in Holgate and the nearest crossing was about a mile away. In your world I'd have had to get in my car and drive to it to be able to cross the road!

That's terrible about your Gran and you have my genuine sympathy. I'm sure we do both agree that education or a 20mph limit would of not helped in her situation.

I also agree that lower speeds cause less damage/ serious casualtys in most cases. But do we really really need it in York? I don't believe the accident stats are anywhere near the levels that these measures are called for. Why compare York with Newcastle? There is no comparison. I don't get that at all.

The thing is York doesn't need it and cannot afford it.

In fairness, Woody, I agree that spending a lot of money should be about results not political dogma, and as I state above, I really can't see how this can be policed. As such, it smells of dogma to me!

Great gran was a long time ago and she was nearly ninety - there are probably worse ways to go! Just used it to demonstrate what a random world we live in.

..will Anne 'green wave' Reid have a secret switch to flick that will allow her to do 30..?

lol propaganda. People aren't going to pay attention to these limits.

i think I must have been dreaming for the last umpteen months, I am sure that gale lane has a 20mph speed limit, wonder if the council is aware of this? If Anne magic switch reid would like to take time to come visit gale lane in acomb. She will be met with a long road with a 20 mph speed limit which makes not the slightest difference to the motorists, who speed up and down the road all day and night. After complaining to the police about these motorists,they do nothing.
Have the council forgot about this road being 20 mph? Why are they waiting for analysis from Newcastle, they can study it here in York, c'mon annie come and have a look for yourselves at the speed they come down the road.Police don't do anything so why blanket a whole city with 20mph limits if the council cannot even enforce 1 road.I suppose the council will have to find extra money for the council tax and the wasted money by the council changing road lanes at Clifton Green and other places? Its about time the council was run by business men who know what they are doing, like in the very early days of councils.

Woody G Mellor wrote:
Comparing York with Newcastle? What?? Bunch of clowns. And since when and where did York have a high rate of road accidents?

Why, only every other day. Read today's edition.

roskoboskovic wrote:
come on show us the figures which can prove that we need these measures.i am not aware of any great number of pedestrians being injured in york and how much do all these new signs and road markings cost.i thought that we were strapped for cash.

Why, only every other day. Read today's edition.

Alf Garnett wrote:

roskoboskovic wrote:
come on show us the figures which can prove that we need these measures.i am not aware of any great number of pedestrians being injured in york and how much do all these new signs and road markings cost.i thought that we were strapped for cash.

Why, only every other day. Read today's edition.

Sorry. Wrong comment. Blame the website. Blame the council. Blame anyone but don't blame me.

What a load of bull. Take a look at the Acomb hotel roundabout. There are 20mph signs one side of the road and 30mph signs on the other. Then there are 20mph signs crossed out on one side of the road and 30mph signs crossed out on the other. So, Hamilton Drive, Stuart Road, Tudor Road are 20mph, oh no there not. Then they are 30mph, oh no they are not. In fact, I aren't sure anymore what the speed limit is. It seems that you can go 30mph one direction but only 20mph in the other direction. I do know that trying to make sense of what is what is a real safety issue. Add to that, the morons that ride bikes wearing the cloak of invisibility and indestructability, an accident is going to happen. Congrats to the Labour councillors for finding a new innovative way in which to blow £600,000 of council tax payers money whilst cutting housing and council tax benefits for people on benefits. They are as bad as the ConDems in the government. We desperately need an alternative to voting Lab, Cons or LibDem.

Alf Garnett wrote:

Woody G Mellor wrote:
Comparing York with Newcastle? What?? Bunch of clowns. And since when and where did York have a high rate of road accidents?

Why, only every other day. Read today's edition.

High rate I asked. Not one.

CYC learning how to waste money in bold new ways no one would could imagine and considering it a good thing.
Seriously we should employ the people who consider these ideas and get other councils to pay them extortionate fees for the advice whilst we use it for something sensible like care for the elderly. After all one consultant can earn a smegging fortune imagine what they could earn if we channeled this evil for good

Woe is me...... I have to drive a bit slower through residential streets, life's so unfair....