Left-hand lane reinstated at Clifton Green junction

York Press: Coun David Scott, Coun Ken King and Coun Helen Douglas at the reinstated junction at Clifton Green Coun David Scott, Coun Ken King and Coun Helen Douglas at the reinstated junction at Clifton Green

A TRAFFIC lane which was controversially removed from a busy York junction has been reinstated.

The left-hand filter lane at the junction of Clifton Green and Water End was taken away in 2009 to make more space for cyclists, but the changes were blamed for longer queues of cars in the area.

City of York Council ’s Labour group pledged to reinstate the car lane when it took control of the authority at last year’s local elections and the work, which cost £12,000, has now been completed.

Clifton councillors David Scott , Ken King and Helen Douglas had campaigned for the return of the lane.

Coun Scott said: “This change should see traffic moving more freely and queues running into Clifton Green reduced.

“I’m delighted with this outcome after working for so long to get this change made, and while I know we have more work to do to help residents in the affected streets, I hope this will be the start of the improvements needed.”

Emergency services and cycling campaigners had called for the cycle route to remain and council officers admitted it would make the area less safe for bikes but said returning to the original layout would cut congestion.

Comments (32)

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8:57am Tue 4 Sep 12

Jazzper says...

Hooray, it's taken a long time...but thank goodness its been sorted!, now how about improving those traffic lights that keep you waiting with nothing passing in the other directions, surely that could be done 'fairly quickly' ?
Hooray, it's taken a long time...but thank goodness its been sorted!, now how about improving those traffic lights that keep you waiting with nothing passing in the other directions, surely that could be done 'fairly quickly' ? Jazzper
  • Score: 0

9:00am Tue 4 Sep 12

3.8liter says...

I used this junction yesterday. sailed along on the inside, filter arrow at green, straight through, easy.
£12000 well spent. This amount is loose change compared with other highly expensive, and unneccessary traffic schemes which have been introduced and are being proposed.
I used this junction yesterday. sailed along on the inside, filter arrow at green, straight through, easy. £12000 well spent. This amount is loose change compared with other highly expensive, and unneccessary traffic schemes which have been introduced and are being proposed. 3.8liter
  • Score: 0

9:03am Tue 4 Sep 12

Jim says...

Maybe I'm out of touch with costs, but how can removing some road markings, painting some new ones and a possible adjustment to traffic light timing/phasing cost TWELVE THOUSAND POUNDS?

I'm not surprised that the council has budget problems.
Maybe I'm out of touch with costs, but how can removing some road markings, painting some new ones and a possible adjustment to traffic light timing/phasing cost TWELVE THOUSAND POUNDS? I'm not surprised that the council has budget problems. Jim
  • Score: 0

9:48am Tue 4 Sep 12

Yeahbutno says...

As a regular user of the junction as both a car driver and cyclist, I am disgusted by the new layout. Councillors were told by safety officers, that the new layout was dangerous, and it clearly is. The cycle path now dumps bikes straight onto the junction at exactly the point where left-turning cars are directed to cut straight across their path.

The fact that traffic may flow slightly quicker through the junction simply makes that danger worse.

As a lifelong labour voter, I am SO disappointed that the current incumbents in York are so pig-headed about things like Beckfield Lane tip, and are willing to put people's lives at risk through their obstinate unwillingness to listen to sensible advice on Clifton Green.
As a regular user of the junction as both a car driver and cyclist, I am disgusted by the new layout. Councillors were told by safety officers, that the new layout was dangerous, and it clearly is. The cycle path now dumps bikes straight onto the junction at exactly the point where left-turning cars are directed to cut straight across their path. The fact that traffic may flow slightly quicker through the junction simply makes that danger worse. As a lifelong labour voter, I am SO disappointed that the current incumbents in York are so pig-headed about things like Beckfield Lane tip, and are willing to put people's lives at risk through their obstinate unwillingness to listen to sensible advice on Clifton Green. Yeahbutno
  • Score: 0

9:56am Tue 4 Sep 12

Jazzper says...

Yeahbutno wrote:
As a regular user of the junction as both a car driver and cyclist, I am disgusted by the new layout. Councillors were told by safety officers, that the new layout was dangerous, and it clearly is. The cycle path now dumps bikes straight onto the junction at exactly the point where left-turning cars are directed to cut straight across their path.

The fact that traffic may flow slightly quicker through the junction simply makes that danger worse.

As a lifelong labour voter, I am SO disappointed that the current incumbents in York are so pig-headed about things like Beckfield Lane tip, and are willing to put people's lives at risk through their obstinate unwillingness to listen to sensible advice on Clifton Green.
The points raised in your post are your opinions....certainl
y NOT mine. Well done CYC for listening to the majority on this one...NOT the minority! as for law suits, well accidents will happen, and it has to be proved in a court who is to blame. I am a cyclist who uses that junction every day, I find the junction no problem at all to negotiate...care and common sense is all that is required!
[quote][p][bold]Yeahbutno[/bold] wrote: As a regular user of the junction as both a car driver and cyclist, I am disgusted by the new layout. Councillors were told by safety officers, that the new layout was dangerous, and it clearly is. The cycle path now dumps bikes straight onto the junction at exactly the point where left-turning cars are directed to cut straight across their path. The fact that traffic may flow slightly quicker through the junction simply makes that danger worse. As a lifelong labour voter, I am SO disappointed that the current incumbents in York are so pig-headed about things like Beckfield Lane tip, and are willing to put people's lives at risk through their obstinate unwillingness to listen to sensible advice on Clifton Green.[/p][/quote]The points raised in your post are your opinions....certainl y NOT mine. Well done CYC for listening to the majority on this one...NOT the minority! as for law suits, well accidents will happen, and it has to be proved in a court who is to blame. I am a cyclist who uses that junction every day, I find the junction no problem at all to negotiate...care and common sense is all that is required! Jazzper
  • Score: 0

9:58am Tue 4 Sep 12

mrcharly says...

I'm a cyclist, do a heck of a lot of miles a week.

I've been writing to the council about the junction for ages, asking for the left-turning lane for cars to be reinstated.

Cars and bikes mix fine on roads. Forcing them into separate lanes that cross one another's path is an invitation to disaster.
I'm a cyclist, do a heck of a lot of miles a week. I've been writing to the council about the junction for ages, asking for the left-turning lane for cars to be reinstated. Cars and bikes mix fine on roads. Forcing them into separate lanes that cross one another's path is an invitation to disaster. mrcharly
  • Score: 0

10:05am Tue 4 Sep 12

YorkArchitect says...

I used it Yesterday, much better, cyclists wove in and out quite freely and without problems. To throw 'a brick in the pond', how about making Clifton Green the island in a one way traffic circulation system, all the traffic going in the same direction and no conflict of crossing traffic? This may remove the need for traffic lights at non-peak times?
I used it Yesterday, much better, cyclists wove in and out quite freely and without problems. To throw 'a brick in the pond', how about making Clifton Green the island in a one way traffic circulation system, all the traffic going in the same direction and no conflict of crossing traffic? This may remove the need for traffic lights at non-peak times? YorkArchitect
  • Score: 0

10:42am Tue 4 Sep 12

Von_Dutch says...

Jazzper wrote:
Yeahbutno wrote:
As a regular user of the junction as both a car driver and cyclist, I am disgusted by the new layout. Councillors were told by safety officers, that the new layout was dangerous, and it clearly is. The cycle path now dumps bikes straight onto the junction at exactly the point where left-turning cars are directed to cut straight across their path.

The fact that traffic may flow slightly quicker through the junction simply makes that danger worse.

As a lifelong labour voter, I am SO disappointed that the current incumbents in York are so pig-headed about things like Beckfield Lane tip, and are willing to put people's lives at risk through their obstinate unwillingness to listen to sensible advice on Clifton Green.
The points raised in your post are your opinions....certainl

y NOT mine. Well done CYC for listening to the majority on this one...NOT the minority! as for law suits, well accidents will happen, and it has to be proved in a court who is to blame. I am a cyclist who uses that junction every day, I find the junction no problem at all to negotiate...care and common sense is all that is required!
Jazzper, just a point - listening to the majority would have left the junction as it was - as the public consultation clearly showed that most people didn't want it changed back. It's actually the vocal minority who've won here.

However, i'll reserve judgement on this. As a driver i noticed the flow of traffic significantly better coming from Water End turning left onto the A19. However i've also used this new layout as a cyclist and at busy times it's certainly a lot more dangerous... I suppose time will tell.
[quote][p][bold]Jazzper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Yeahbutno[/bold] wrote: As a regular user of the junction as both a car driver and cyclist, I am disgusted by the new layout. Councillors were told by safety officers, that the new layout was dangerous, and it clearly is. The cycle path now dumps bikes straight onto the junction at exactly the point where left-turning cars are directed to cut straight across their path. The fact that traffic may flow slightly quicker through the junction simply makes that danger worse. As a lifelong labour voter, I am SO disappointed that the current incumbents in York are so pig-headed about things like Beckfield Lane tip, and are willing to put people's lives at risk through their obstinate unwillingness to listen to sensible advice on Clifton Green.[/p][/quote]The points raised in your post are your opinions....certainl y NOT mine. Well done CYC for listening to the majority on this one...NOT the minority! as for law suits, well accidents will happen, and it has to be proved in a court who is to blame. I am a cyclist who uses that junction every day, I find the junction no problem at all to negotiate...care and common sense is all that is required![/p][/quote]Jazzper, just a point - listening to the majority would have left the junction as it was - as the public consultation clearly showed that most people didn't want it changed back. It's actually the vocal minority who've won here. However, i'll reserve judgement on this. As a driver i noticed the flow of traffic significantly better coming from Water End turning left onto the A19. However i've also used this new layout as a cyclist and at busy times it's certainly a lot more dangerous... I suppose time will tell. Von_Dutch
  • Score: 0

10:56am Tue 4 Sep 12

Yeahbutno says...

Jazzper wrote:
Yeahbutno wrote:
As a regular user of the junction as both a car driver and cyclist, I am disgusted by the new layout. Councillors were told by safety officers, that the new layout was dangerous, and it clearly is. The cycle path now dumps bikes straight onto the junction at exactly the point where left-turning cars are directed to cut straight across their path.

The fact that traffic may flow slightly quicker through the junction simply makes that danger worse.

As a lifelong labour voter, I am SO disappointed that the current incumbents in York are so pig-headed about things like Beckfield Lane tip, and are willing to put people's lives at risk through their obstinate unwillingness to listen to sensible advice on Clifton Green.
The points raised in your post are your opinions....certainl

y NOT mine. Well done CYC for listening to the majority on this one...NOT the minority! as for law suits, well accidents will happen, and it has to be proved in a court who is to blame. I am a cyclist who uses that junction every day, I find the junction no problem at all to negotiate...care and common sense is all that is required!
The "majority" wanted it left alone!

As the junction has only been in operation for a couple of days, I think it's too early for you to say it is "no problem". And yes, care and common sense is needed, but not everyone who uses cycles AND cars displays those qualities, sadly.

In the winter, when many more are using their cars, I think that is when we will see just how much more dangerous this junction now is.
[quote][p][bold]Jazzper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Yeahbutno[/bold] wrote: As a regular user of the junction as both a car driver and cyclist, I am disgusted by the new layout. Councillors were told by safety officers, that the new layout was dangerous, and it clearly is. The cycle path now dumps bikes straight onto the junction at exactly the point where left-turning cars are directed to cut straight across their path. The fact that traffic may flow slightly quicker through the junction simply makes that danger worse. As a lifelong labour voter, I am SO disappointed that the current incumbents in York are so pig-headed about things like Beckfield Lane tip, and are willing to put people's lives at risk through their obstinate unwillingness to listen to sensible advice on Clifton Green.[/p][/quote]The points raised in your post are your opinions....certainl y NOT mine. Well done CYC for listening to the majority on this one...NOT the minority! as for law suits, well accidents will happen, and it has to be proved in a court who is to blame. I am a cyclist who uses that junction every day, I find the junction no problem at all to negotiate...care and common sense is all that is required![/p][/quote]The "majority" wanted it left alone! As the junction has only been in operation for a couple of days, I think it's too early for you to say it is "no problem". And yes, care and common sense is needed, but not everyone who uses cycles AND cars displays those qualities, sadly. In the winter, when many more are using their cars, I think that is when we will see just how much more dangerous this junction now is. Yeahbutno
  • Score: 0

11:27am Tue 4 Sep 12

Ichabod76 says...

mrcharly wrote:
I'm a cyclist, do a heck of a lot of miles a week.

I've been writing to the council about the junction for ages, asking for the left-turning lane for cars to be reinstated.

Cars and bikes mix fine on roads. Forcing them into separate lanes that cross one another's path is an invitation to disaster.
Are you sure your a cyclist

far too sensible comment ; )
[quote][p][bold]mrcharly[/bold] wrote: I'm a cyclist, do a heck of a lot of miles a week. I've been writing to the council about the junction for ages, asking for the left-turning lane for cars to be reinstated. Cars and bikes mix fine on roads. Forcing them into separate lanes that cross one another's path is an invitation to disaster.[/p][/quote]Are you sure your a cyclist far too sensible comment ; ) Ichabod76
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Tue 4 Sep 12

twoleftfeet says...

YorkArchitect wrote:
I used it Yesterday, much better, cyclists wove in and out quite freely and without problems. To throw 'a brick in the pond', how about making Clifton Green the island in a one way traffic circulation system, all the traffic going in the same direction and no conflict of crossing traffic? This may remove the need for traffic lights at non-peak times?
How about today when all the kids are back at school? No doubt all the Chelsea tractors are back on the road to make the demanding 1 mile run to the school!

Glad it has been reinstated though. £12,000 for some new white lines does seem a bit pricy!
[quote][p][bold]YorkArchitect[/bold] wrote: I used it Yesterday, much better, cyclists wove in and out quite freely and without problems. To throw 'a brick in the pond', how about making Clifton Green the island in a one way traffic circulation system, all the traffic going in the same direction and no conflict of crossing traffic? This may remove the need for traffic lights at non-peak times?[/p][/quote]How about today when all the kids are back at school? No doubt all the Chelsea tractors are back on the road to make the demanding 1 mile run to the school! Glad it has been reinstated though. £12,000 for some new white lines does seem a bit pricy! twoleftfeet
  • Score: 0

12:21pm Tue 4 Sep 12

vandriver says...

after been a cyclist i can see why cyclist are upset but if there wasent a cycle lane in the country
what would you all do just stand there and cry ????

no you would just get on with it !

PREACH
after been a cyclist i can see why cyclist are upset but if there wasent a cycle lane in the country what would you all do just stand there and cry ???? no you would just get on with it ! PREACH vandriver
  • Score: 0

1:03pm Tue 4 Sep 12

AlwaySwilby says...

Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box.
A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.
Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me. AlwaySwilby
  • Score: 0

1:16pm Tue 4 Sep 12

Mr Udigawa says...

AlwaySwilby wrote:
Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.
You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one.
You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box.
[quote][p][bold]AlwaySwilby[/bold] wrote: Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.[/p][/quote]You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one. You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box. Mr Udigawa
  • Score: 0

1:35pm Tue 4 Sep 12

Yeahbutno says...

Mr Udigawa wrote:
AlwaySwilby wrote:
Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.
You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one.
You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box.
The poster clearly stated that the car was (illegally) in the cycle box. to go in front would have put him right in the middle of the junction! Going behind wouldn't be an option in most cases, as the car behind pulls right up to the one in front.
[quote][p][bold]Mr Udigawa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AlwaySwilby[/bold] wrote: Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.[/p][/quote]You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one. You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box.[/p][/quote]The poster clearly stated that the car was (illegally) in the cycle box. to go in front would have put him right in the middle of the junction! Going behind wouldn't be an option in most cases, as the car behind pulls right up to the one in front. Yeahbutno
  • Score: 0

2:05pm Tue 4 Sep 12

mrcharly says...

Ichabod76 wrote:
mrcharly wrote:
I'm a cyclist, do a heck of a lot of miles a week.

I've been writing to the council about the junction for ages, asking for the left-turning lane for cars to be reinstated.

Cars and bikes mix fine on roads. Forcing them into separate lanes that cross one another's path is an invitation to disaster.
Are you sure your a cyclist

far too sensible comment ; )
lol

I'm the cyclist that commutes down the A64 to Leeds and has done for years.

Bikes and cars mix just fine. Idiots (in either form of transportation) don't mix with anyone.
[quote][p][bold]Ichabod76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mrcharly[/bold] wrote: I'm a cyclist, do a heck of a lot of miles a week. I've been writing to the council about the junction for ages, asking for the left-turning lane for cars to be reinstated. Cars and bikes mix fine on roads. Forcing them into separate lanes that cross one another's path is an invitation to disaster.[/p][/quote]Are you sure your a cyclist far too sensible comment ; )[/p][/quote]lol I'm the cyclist that commutes down the A64 to Leeds and has done for years. Bikes and cars mix just fine. Idiots (in either form of transportation) don't mix with anyone. mrcharly
  • Score: 0

2:18pm Tue 4 Sep 12

Mr Udigawa says...

Yeahbutno wrote:
Mr Udigawa wrote:
AlwaySwilby wrote: Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.
You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one. You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box.
The poster clearly stated that the car was (illegally) in the cycle box. to go in front would have put him right in the middle of the junction! Going behind wouldn't be an option in most cases, as the car behind pulls right up to the one in front.
I wouldn't get myself in a position where I was sat right on the edge of the left hand lane though, there's always space to move over even if it involves sitting at an angle to the front vehicle, much safer anyway, my point is that you could find yourself in the same situation at multiple junctions around York, you just need to apply some common sense in how you position yourself.
[quote][p][bold]Yeahbutno[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mr Udigawa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AlwaySwilby[/bold] wrote: Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.[/p][/quote]You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one. You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box.[/p][/quote]The poster clearly stated that the car was (illegally) in the cycle box. to go in front would have put him right in the middle of the junction! Going behind wouldn't be an option in most cases, as the car behind pulls right up to the one in front.[/p][/quote]I wouldn't get myself in a position where I was sat right on the edge of the left hand lane though, there's always space to move over even if it involves sitting at an angle to the front vehicle, much safer anyway, my point is that you could find yourself in the same situation at multiple junctions around York, you just need to apply some common sense in how you position yourself. Mr Udigawa
  • Score: 0

4:45pm Tue 4 Sep 12

yorkshirelad says...

It's very clearly more dangerous and will remain a potent symbol of irresponsible local politics...you don't play politics with people's lives.

However, with dangerous junctions the biggest effect is deterrence - some people will simply stop using it (and just because some people find it manageable does not mean all will). This is an important one as it was part of a growing network...incomplete
, yes, but gradually building.

Of course people deterred may well take to their cars which ultimately adds to the problem.

It is a shining example of what's wrong with UK cycle lanes (they disappear at the most dangerous points) and what is wrong with local politics. A shameful waste of £12,000.
It's very clearly more dangerous and will remain a potent symbol of irresponsible local politics...you don't play politics with people's lives. However, with dangerous junctions the biggest effect is deterrence - some people will simply stop using it (and just because some people find it manageable does not mean all will). This is an important one as it was part of a growing network...incomplete , yes, but gradually building. Of course people deterred may well take to their cars which ultimately adds to the problem. It is a shining example of what's wrong with UK cycle lanes (they disappear at the most dangerous points) and what is wrong with local politics. A shameful waste of £12,000. yorkshirelad
  • Score: 0

5:05pm Tue 4 Sep 12

Pete the Brickie says...

Yeahbutno wrote:
Mr Udigawa wrote:
AlwaySwilby wrote:
Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.
You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one.
You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box.
The poster clearly stated that the car was (illegally) in the cycle box. to go in front would have put him right in the middle of the junction! Going behind wouldn't be an option in most cases, as the car behind pulls right up to the one in front.
If you are a cyclist and you are in the box first correctly positioned car cannot enter it, if the car is in it first wrongly and you are a cyclist by riding to the front of the queue and sitting next to it you are making yourself vulnerable so don't.
[quote][p][bold]Yeahbutno[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mr Udigawa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AlwaySwilby[/bold] wrote: Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.[/p][/quote]You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one. You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box.[/p][/quote]The poster clearly stated that the car was (illegally) in the cycle box. to go in front would have put him right in the middle of the junction! Going behind wouldn't be an option in most cases, as the car behind pulls right up to the one in front.[/p][/quote]If you are a cyclist and you are in the box first correctly positioned car cannot enter it, if the car is in it first wrongly and you are a cyclist by riding to the front of the queue and sitting next to it you are making yourself vulnerable so don't. Pete the Brickie
  • Score: 0

7:26pm Tue 4 Sep 12

pedalling paul says...

The report which Cabinet considered earlier this year is at http://democracy.yor
k.gov.uk/documents/s
55561/Water%20End%20
Cabinet%20report%201
6.03.12%20RC.pdf
and Officers clearly stated their recommendation to leave the junction as it was, on cyclist safety grounds.
Never mind, shedloads of peak time motorists will be able to reach the back of the next queue a few seconds earlier.
Meantime I challenge the Councillors in the photo to meet back there in a year's time, school term and morning peak, to check if queues really have reduced. In fact I'll take my camera there around that time, and demonstrate the folly of trying to win votes by pandering to car commuters.
The report which Cabinet considered earlier this year is at http://democracy.yor k.gov.uk/documents/s 55561/Water%20End%20 Cabinet%20report%201 6.03.12%20RC.pdf and Officers clearly stated their recommendation to leave the junction as it was, on cyclist safety grounds. Never mind, shedloads of peak time motorists will be able to reach the back of the next queue a few seconds earlier. Meantime I challenge the Councillors in the photo to meet back there in a year's time, school term and morning peak, to check if queues really have reduced. In fact I'll take my camera there around that time, and demonstrate the folly of trying to win votes by pandering to car commuters. pedalling paul
  • Score: 0

7:54pm Tue 4 Sep 12

AnotherPointofView says...

Jim wrote:
Maybe I'm out of touch with costs, but how can removing some road markings, painting some new ones and a possible adjustment to traffic light timing/phasing cost TWELVE THOUSAND POUNDS?

I'm not surprised that the council has budget problems.
Here, here. Well said Jim.
[quote][p][bold]Jim[/bold] wrote: Maybe I'm out of touch with costs, but how can removing some road markings, painting some new ones and a possible adjustment to traffic light timing/phasing cost TWELVE THOUSAND POUNDS? I'm not surprised that the council has budget problems.[/p][/quote]Here, here. Well said Jim. AnotherPointofView
  • Score: 0

9:20pm Tue 4 Sep 12

greenmonkey says...

yorkshirelad wrote:
It's very clearly more dangerous and will remain a potent symbol of irresponsible local politics...you don't play politics with people's lives. However, with dangerous junctions the biggest effect is deterrence - some people will simply stop using it (and just because some people find it manageable does not mean all will). This is an important one as it was part of a growing network...incomplete , yes, but gradually building. Of course people deterred may well take to their cars which ultimately adds to the problem. It is a shining example of what's wrong with UK cycle lanes (they disappear at the most dangerous points) and what is wrong with local politics. A shameful waste of £12,000.
Hmm! Have to say 'told you so' but that's not much consolation to the less confident cyclist or the objective of creating continental standard cycle links around the city. Everyone asks why York doesnt have a decent network, this is a clear symbol of what is wrong. If they had been as timid in 1987 we wouldnt have our footstreets now.
[quote][p][bold]yorkshirelad[/bold] wrote: It's very clearly more dangerous and will remain a potent symbol of irresponsible local politics...you don't play politics with people's lives. However, with dangerous junctions the biggest effect is deterrence - some people will simply stop using it (and just because some people find it manageable does not mean all will). This is an important one as it was part of a growing network...incomplete , yes, but gradually building. Of course people deterred may well take to their cars which ultimately adds to the problem. It is a shining example of what's wrong with UK cycle lanes (they disappear at the most dangerous points) and what is wrong with local politics. A shameful waste of £12,000.[/p][/quote]Hmm! Have to say 'told you so' but that's not much consolation to the less confident cyclist or the objective of creating continental standard cycle links around the city. Everyone asks why York doesnt have a decent network, this is a clear symbol of what is wrong. If they had been as timid in 1987 we wouldnt have our footstreets now. greenmonkey
  • Score: 0

10:52pm Tue 4 Sep 12

piaggio1 says...

so PP, is this the same person who go,s round york on the tour bus ,at 10 miles per hour??? annoying every car/van/lorry/,can we take a photo of the said bus/bus,s. that seem to hold most of the traffic up in the city centre,god it,s only a junction.get over it ,and £12 grand?? no wonder we is skint
so PP, is this the same person who go,s round york on the tour bus ,at 10 miles per hour??? annoying every car/van/lorry/,can we take a photo of the said bus/bus,s. that seem to hold most of the traffic up in the city centre,god it,s only a junction.get over it ,and £12 grand?? no wonder we is skint piaggio1
  • Score: 0

9:11am Wed 5 Sep 12

pedalling paul says...

piaggio1 wrote:
so PP, is this the same person who go,s round york on the tour bus ,at 10 miles per hour??? annoying every car/van/lorry/,can we take a photo of the said bus/bus,s. that seem to hold most of the traffic up in the city centre,god it,s only a junction.get over it ,and £12 grand?? no wonder we is skint
Having fought my way through a mass of commas, I deduce that another well worn story is being recycled.
Sensible Councillors will always allow the corporate good of the City to outweigh local considerations within their own Wards. In this case, the strategy embodied in the current Local Transport Plan to achieve further reductions in car dependancy should have held sway, but it didn't. The Ward Councillors got themselves a few votes at the last elections, but such decisions will eventually condemn our descendants in York to gridlock.
Artificial priority for competing travel choices is the most sensible way to encourage modal shift. If not, then perhaps the congestion charging will have to re-emerge.
[quote][p][bold]piaggio1[/bold] wrote: so PP, is this the same person who go,s round york on the tour bus ,at 10 miles per hour??? annoying every car/van/lorry/,can we take a photo of the said bus/bus,s. that seem to hold most of the traffic up in the city centre,god it,s only a junction.get over it ,and £12 grand?? no wonder we is skint[/p][/quote]Having fought my way through a mass of commas, I deduce that another well worn story is being recycled. Sensible Councillors will always allow the corporate good of the City to outweigh local considerations within their own Wards. In this case, the strategy embodied in the current Local Transport Plan to achieve further reductions in car dependancy should have held sway, but it didn't. The Ward Councillors got themselves a few votes at the last elections, but such decisions will eventually condemn our descendants in York to gridlock. Artificial priority for competing travel choices is the most sensible way to encourage modal shift. If not, then perhaps the congestion charging will have to re-emerge. pedalling paul
  • Score: 0

12:02pm Wed 5 Sep 12

Yeahbutno says...

Pete the Brickie wrote:
Yeahbutno wrote:
Mr Udigawa wrote:
AlwaySwilby wrote:
Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.
You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one.
You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box.
The poster clearly stated that the car was (illegally) in the cycle box. to go in front would have put him right in the middle of the junction! Going behind wouldn't be an option in most cases, as the car behind pulls right up to the one in front.
If you are a cyclist and you are in the box first correctly positioned car cannot enter it, if the car is in it first wrongly and you are a cyclist by riding to the front of the queue and sitting next to it you are making yourself vulnerable so don't.
I have no idea what that means. It's a series of apparently random words, asssembled in no particular order.
[quote][p][bold]Pete the Brickie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Yeahbutno[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mr Udigawa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AlwaySwilby[/bold] wrote: Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.[/p][/quote]You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one. You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box.[/p][/quote]The poster clearly stated that the car was (illegally) in the cycle box. to go in front would have put him right in the middle of the junction! Going behind wouldn't be an option in most cases, as the car behind pulls right up to the one in front.[/p][/quote]If you are a cyclist and you are in the box first correctly positioned car cannot enter it, if the car is in it first wrongly and you are a cyclist by riding to the front of the queue and sitting next to it you are making yourself vulnerable so don't.[/p][/quote]I have no idea what that means. It's a series of apparently random words, asssembled in no particular order. Yeahbutno
  • Score: 0

12:04pm Wed 5 Sep 12

m dee says...

greenmonkey wrote:
yorkshirelad wrote:
It's very clearly more dangerous and will remain a potent symbol of irresponsible local politics...you don't play politics with people's lives. However, with dangerous junctions the biggest effect is deterrence - some people will simply stop using it (and just because some people find it manageable does not mean all will). This is an important one as it was part of a growing network...incomplete , yes, but gradually building. Of course people deterred may well take to their cars which ultimately adds to the problem. It is a shining example of what's wrong with UK cycle lanes (they disappear at the most dangerous points) and what is wrong with local politics. A shameful waste of £12,000.
Hmm! Have to say 'told you so' but that's not much consolation to the less confident cyclist or the objective of creating continental standard cycle links around the city. Everyone asks why York doesnt have a decent network, this is a clear symbol of what is wrong. If they had been as timid in 1987 we wouldnt have our footstreets now.
Yes P.P and Greenmonkey it would be nice to have continental standard cycle links around the city,problem with this idea is York is a small medieval City the roads in many parts of the city are just not wide enough to accommodate a recommended minimum width cycle lane at 1.5 metres, but 2 metres is preferred so we end up with such a situation we have here.
[quote][p][bold]greenmonkey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yorkshirelad[/bold] wrote: It's very clearly more dangerous and will remain a potent symbol of irresponsible local politics...you don't play politics with people's lives. However, with dangerous junctions the biggest effect is deterrence - some people will simply stop using it (and just because some people find it manageable does not mean all will). This is an important one as it was part of a growing network...incomplete , yes, but gradually building. Of course people deterred may well take to their cars which ultimately adds to the problem. It is a shining example of what's wrong with UK cycle lanes (they disappear at the most dangerous points) and what is wrong with local politics. A shameful waste of £12,000.[/p][/quote]Hmm! Have to say 'told you so' but that's not much consolation to the less confident cyclist or the objective of creating continental standard cycle links around the city. Everyone asks why York doesnt have a decent network, this is a clear symbol of what is wrong. If they had been as timid in 1987 we wouldnt have our footstreets now.[/p][/quote]Yes P.P and Greenmonkey it would be nice to have continental standard cycle links around the city,problem with this idea is York is a small medieval City the roads in many parts of the city are just not wide enough to accommodate a recommended minimum width cycle lane at 1.5 metres, but 2 metres is preferred so we end up with such a situation we have here. m dee
  • Score: 0

2:25pm Wed 5 Sep 12

Sillybillies says...

The "majority" wanted it left alone!

Wrong, this was in the Labour manifesto at the last COYC election and they won. The majority have got what they voted for.
In this case, the strategy embodied in the current Local Transport Plan ...

Which has been kicked into touch as it's a load of rubbish.
[quote]The "majority" wanted it left alone! [/quote] Wrong, this was in the Labour manifesto at the last COYC election and they won. The majority have got what they voted for. [quote]In this case, the strategy embodied in the current Local Transport Plan ... [/quote] Which has been kicked into touch as it's a load of rubbish. Sillybillies
  • Score: 0

3:02pm Wed 5 Sep 12

Mr Udigawa says...

Yeahbutno wrote:
Pete the Brickie wrote:
Yeahbutno wrote:
Mr Udigawa wrote:
AlwaySwilby wrote: Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.
You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one. You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box.
The poster clearly stated that the car was (illegally) in the cycle box. to go in front would have put him right in the middle of the junction! Going behind wouldn't be an option in most cases, as the car behind pulls right up to the one in front.
If you are a cyclist and you are in the box first correctly positioned car cannot enter it, if the car is in it first wrongly and you are a cyclist by riding to the front of the queue and sitting next to it you are making yourself vulnerable so don't.
I have no idea what that means. It's a series of apparently random words, asssembled in no particular order.
Which probably explains why you don't have any basic roadcraft skills also.
[quote][p][bold]Yeahbutno[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pete the Brickie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Yeahbutno[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mr Udigawa[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AlwaySwilby[/bold] wrote: Well, I felt extremely vulnerable at this junction this morning. I was waiting to turn right in the middle of the cycle stop box with car to my right also in the cycle advance box. All of a sudden cars start passing me quite quickly about six inches away from me on my left hand side as they go through the new left filter. I couldn't move over to the right out of their way because of the car in the cycle box. A cyclist WILL be injured at this junction fairly soon, I just hope it's not me.[/p][/quote]You could apply this problem to any junction in the city, not just this one. You should have moved either to the front or rear of the car blocking the cycle box.[/p][/quote]The poster clearly stated that the car was (illegally) in the cycle box. to go in front would have put him right in the middle of the junction! Going behind wouldn't be an option in most cases, as the car behind pulls right up to the one in front.[/p][/quote]If you are a cyclist and you are in the box first correctly positioned car cannot enter it, if the car is in it first wrongly and you are a cyclist by riding to the front of the queue and sitting next to it you are making yourself vulnerable so don't.[/p][/quote]I have no idea what that means. It's a series of apparently random words, asssembled in no particular order.[/p][/quote]Which probably explains why you don't have any basic roadcraft skills also. Mr Udigawa
  • Score: 0

4:26pm Wed 5 Sep 12

Von_Dutch says...

Sillybillies wrote:
The "majority" wanted it left alone!
Wrong, this was in the Labour manifesto at the last COYC election and they won. The majority have got what they voted for.
In this case, the strategy embodied in the current Local Transport Plan ...
Which has been kicked into touch as it's a load of rubbish.
Wrong on both accounts my ignorant friend.

The Labour Manifesto does not mention Clifton Green at all. Check it out yourself if you don't believe me:- http://www.yorklabou
r.org.uk/policy/mani
festo.php

Plus the fact that public consultation showed an overwhelming majority said do NOT reinstate the left hand lane. Now i'm not arguing who will be proved right there long-term, but please if you're going to talk authoritively, get the correct facts please.

Secondly, I think you're mistaking the LDF (Local Development Framework) - which has indeed been kicked into touch - with the Local Transport Plan (LTP), which is still very much adopted and running.

As i said - Pure ignorance and rubbish spouted from Sillybillies, but then did we expect anything less?...
[quote][p][bold]Sillybillies[/bold] wrote: [quote]The "majority" wanted it left alone! [/quote] Wrong, this was in the Labour manifesto at the last COYC election and they won. The majority have got what they voted for. [quote]In this case, the strategy embodied in the current Local Transport Plan ... [/quote] Which has been kicked into touch as it's a load of rubbish.[/p][/quote]Wrong on both accounts my ignorant friend. The Labour Manifesto does not mention Clifton Green at all. Check it out yourself if you don't believe me:- http://www.yorklabou r.org.uk/policy/mani festo.php Plus the fact that public consultation showed an overwhelming majority said do NOT reinstate the left hand lane. Now i'm not arguing who will be proved right there long-term, but please if you're going to talk authoritively, get the correct facts please. Secondly, I think you're mistaking the LDF (Local Development Framework) - which has indeed been kicked into touch - with the Local Transport Plan (LTP), which is still very much adopted and running. As i said - Pure ignorance and rubbish spouted from Sillybillies, but then did we expect anything less?... Von_Dutch
  • Score: 0

4:41pm Wed 5 Sep 12

Mr Udigawa says...

Von_Dutch wrote:
Sillybillies wrote:
The "majority" wanted it left alone!
Wrong, this was in the Labour manifesto at the last COYC election and they won. The majority have got what they voted for.
In this case, the strategy embodied in the current Local Transport Plan ...
Which has been kicked into touch as it's a load of rubbish.
Wrong on both accounts my ignorant friend. The Labour Manifesto does not mention Clifton Green at all. Check it out yourself if you don't believe me:- http://www.yorklabou r.org.uk/policy/mani festo.php Plus the fact that public consultation showed an overwhelming majority said do NOT reinstate the left hand lane. Now i'm not arguing who will be proved right there long-term, but please if you're going to talk authoritively, get the correct facts please. Secondly, I think you're mistaking the LDF (Local Development Framework) - which has indeed been kicked into touch - with the Local Transport Plan (LTP), which is still very much adopted and running. As i said - Pure ignorance and rubbish spouted from Sillybillies, but then did we expect anything less?...
Prepare to be trolled & selectively misquoted.
[quote][p][bold]Von_Dutch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sillybillies[/bold] wrote: [quote]The "majority" wanted it left alone! [/quote] Wrong, this was in the Labour manifesto at the last COYC election and they won. The majority have got what they voted for. [quote]In this case, the strategy embodied in the current Local Transport Plan ... [/quote] Which has been kicked into touch as it's a load of rubbish.[/p][/quote]Wrong on both accounts my ignorant friend. The Labour Manifesto does not mention Clifton Green at all. Check it out yourself if you don't believe me:- http://www.yorklabou r.org.uk/policy/mani festo.php Plus the fact that public consultation showed an overwhelming majority said do NOT reinstate the left hand lane. Now i'm not arguing who will be proved right there long-term, but please if you're going to talk authoritively, get the correct facts please. Secondly, I think you're mistaking the LDF (Local Development Framework) - which has indeed been kicked into touch - with the Local Transport Plan (LTP), which is still very much adopted and running. As i said - Pure ignorance and rubbish spouted from Sillybillies, but then did we expect anything less?...[/p][/quote]Prepare to be trolled & selectively misquoted. Mr Udigawa
  • Score: 0

1:17am Thu 6 Sep 12

Magicman! says...

m dee wrote:
greenmonkey wrote:
yorkshirelad wrote:
It's very clearly more dangerous and will remain a potent symbol of irresponsible local politics...you don't play politics with people's lives. However, with dangerous junctions the biggest effect is deterrence - some people will simply stop using it (and just because some people find it manageable does not mean all will). This is an important one as it was part of a growing network...incomplete , yes, but gradually building. Of course people deterred may well take to their cars which ultimately adds to the problem. It is a shining example of what's wrong with UK cycle lanes (they disappear at the most dangerous points) and what is wrong with local politics. A shameful waste of £12,000.
Hmm! Have to say 'told you so' but that's not much consolation to the less confident cyclist or the objective of creating continental standard cycle links around the city. Everyone asks why York doesnt have a decent network, this is a clear symbol of what is wrong. If they had been as timid in 1987 we wouldnt have our footstreets now.
Yes P.P and Greenmonkey it would be nice to have continental standard cycle links around the city,problem with this idea is York is a small medieval City the roads in many parts of the city are just not wide enough to accommodate a recommended minimum width cycle lane at 1.5 metres, but 2 metres is preferred so we end up with such a situation we have here.
The best cycle routes are off road, as they can then be used by less experienced cyclists such as parents with young children (not talking about teenagers, by time they're 12 they should be getting taught to be on the road).

As an example, a cycle route from the train station to wigginton road could be built... using the current cycle/ped ramps that exit the station by the short stay car park, the cycle lane could remain at rail level onto the scarborough bridge - whereby cyclists then either dismount and walk over the bridge, or can cycle by means of a width extension due to a new 2m wide bridge deck being bolted on (with supports going into the current brick pillars) which would have new steps so pedestrians stay on the new deck and cycles on the old deck... then on the east side of the river the cycle lane gradually lowers to the level of the car park, switches under the rail line, but then goes up on the right hand side of Bootham Terrace in its own physically seperated lane so cyclists can climb the hill without a car up their butts. At Bootham, and new traffic island could be provided to allow cycles to cross on lane of traffic at a time, whilst at the same time crossing back over the railway line so as to use the next section of route which would go through Bootham Park Hospital grounds beside the rail line until it comes to the York Hospital grounds. Then the route could go through the car park at the back of the hospital and behind murrough wilson place to join the foss islands / derwent valley cycle route using the former railway alignment which goes behind the scrap yard.
This opens up the following cycle journey opportunities: (a) Crichton Avenue and Burton Stone Lane (east) areas to the hospital and the rail station (b) hospital to the train station (c) Haxby Road and Huntington road north (using hayleys terrace) to the hospital and the train station (d) train station (and by extension holgate road) to morrisons and osbaldwick (e) hospital to city centre via north street.... all of which (except for (c) until the bridge at Haxby Road / Kitchener Street) are completely traffic free - and because they'd be traffic free routes there'd be no traffic lights and so a journey from Huntington (yearsley grove pub for example) to the train station would be roughly 5 minutes quicker cycling the traffic free route than going by road, even though the road route is technically more direct.

That's just one example. Another good off road cycle route would be to utilise the river foss for strensall to monkgate traffic free (and as the level of the river foss is managed you could potentially extend the off-road route to hungate or even piccadilly using boardwalks). The strensall to huntington section would be used by kids going to school for example.
[quote][p][bold]m dee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]greenmonkey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yorkshirelad[/bold] wrote: It's very clearly more dangerous and will remain a potent symbol of irresponsible local politics...you don't play politics with people's lives. However, with dangerous junctions the biggest effect is deterrence - some people will simply stop using it (and just because some people find it manageable does not mean all will). This is an important one as it was part of a growing network...incomplete , yes, but gradually building. Of course people deterred may well take to their cars which ultimately adds to the problem. It is a shining example of what's wrong with UK cycle lanes (they disappear at the most dangerous points) and what is wrong with local politics. A shameful waste of £12,000.[/p][/quote]Hmm! Have to say 'told you so' but that's not much consolation to the less confident cyclist or the objective of creating continental standard cycle links around the city. Everyone asks why York doesnt have a decent network, this is a clear symbol of what is wrong. If they had been as timid in 1987 we wouldnt have our footstreets now.[/p][/quote]Yes P.P and Greenmonkey it would be nice to have continental standard cycle links around the city,problem with this idea is York is a small medieval City the roads in many parts of the city are just not wide enough to accommodate a recommended minimum width cycle lane at 1.5 metres, but 2 metres is preferred so we end up with such a situation we have here.[/p][/quote]The best cycle routes are off road, as they can then be used by less experienced cyclists such as parents with young children (not talking about teenagers, by time they're 12 they should be getting taught to be on the road). As an example, a cycle route from the train station to wigginton road could be built... using the current cycle/ped ramps that exit the station by the short stay car park, the cycle lane could remain at rail level onto the scarborough bridge - whereby cyclists then either dismount and walk over the bridge, or can cycle by means of a width extension due to a new 2m wide bridge deck being bolted on (with supports going into the current brick pillars) which would have new steps so pedestrians stay on the new deck and cycles on the old deck... then on the east side of the river the cycle lane gradually lowers to the level of the car park, switches under the rail line, but then goes up on the right hand side of Bootham Terrace in its own physically seperated lane so cyclists can climb the hill without a car up their butts. At Bootham, and new traffic island could be provided to allow cycles to cross on lane of traffic at a time, whilst at the same time crossing back over the railway line so as to use the next section of route which would go through Bootham Park Hospital grounds beside the rail line until it comes to the York Hospital grounds. Then the route could go through the car park at the back of the hospital and behind murrough wilson place to join the foss islands / derwent valley cycle route using the former railway alignment which goes behind the scrap yard. This opens up the following cycle journey opportunities: (a) Crichton Avenue and Burton Stone Lane (east) areas to the hospital and the rail station (b) hospital to the train station (c) Haxby Road and Huntington road north (using hayleys terrace) to the hospital and the train station (d) train station (and by extension holgate road) to morrisons and osbaldwick (e) hospital to city centre via north street.... all of which (except for (c) until the bridge at Haxby Road / Kitchener Street) are completely traffic free - and because they'd be traffic free routes there'd be no traffic lights and so a journey from Huntington (yearsley grove pub for example) to the train station would be roughly 5 minutes quicker cycling the traffic free route than going by road, even though the road route is technically more direct. That's just one example. Another good off road cycle route would be to utilise the river foss for strensall to monkgate traffic free (and as the level of the river foss is managed you could potentially extend the off-road route to hungate or even piccadilly using boardwalks). The strensall to huntington section would be used by kids going to school for example. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

11:19am Thu 6 Sep 12

Sillybillies says...

Oh dear, whoops I got it wrong, it was NOT deliberate.

I've just used the junction and I sailed through and turned left without having to stop. Just like we used to be able to, at certain times of course. Under the last configuration it was queue, queue, queue all the way. There were only two cyclists on the whole stretch from the A 59 today.

We need more of this, how about putting Fulford Road back to what it was?
Oh dear, whoops I got it wrong, it was NOT deliberate. I've just used the junction and I sailed through and turned left without having to stop. Just like we used to be able to, at certain times of course. Under the last configuration it was queue, queue, queue all the way. There were only two cyclists on the whole stretch from the A 59 today. We need more of this, how about putting Fulford Road back to what it was? Sillybillies
  • Score: 0

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