£1m York mosque plan under attack

7:49am Tuesday 4th September 2012 in News Photograph of the Author By Mike Laycock, Chief reporter

THE decision to approve a new mosque in York without debate by councillors has come under fire.

Independent Osbaldwick councillor Mark Warters has written to City of York Council planning chief Mike Slater and Hull Road councillors to express his dismay that a “significant change” to York’s historic skyline had been allowed “without the open, democratic scrutiny of a planning committee meeting”.

He said many local residents had told him they felt let down that such a change had been agreed behind closed doors.

The Press reported last month that revised plans for the new £1 million mosque, on the site of the current one in Bull Lane, off Hull Road, had been approved by council planning officials, who said it had a significant number of benefits and complied with planning policy.

Coun Warters said he had followed a convention that councillors should not interfere in matters in other members’ wards, but would not follow any such convention in future where any important planning application was destined to be decided behind closed doors for “politically correct” concerns.

He said he personally felt the building would harm York’s skyline and councillors’ duty was to maintain the prominence of York Minster from all vantage points.

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He said: “The precedent set here will undermine that responsibility.

“This should have been debated and decided openly.”

Hull Road councillor Neil Barnes said he had been “actively working with both the residents and the mosque to address local concerns”, and said: “I believe this a good approach to the situation and on planning grounds felt no need to call in the application.”

He claimed the skyline would not be dramatically altered. “The minarets will be the equivalent of a three-storey high building,” he said.

“It will probably match the windmill of St Nicholas Fields or the spire of St Lawrence’s Church.”

Michael Slater, assistant director for city development and sustainability, said the council’s constitution set out the criteria for applications being determined by planning committees, with more than 90 per cent of applications being determined by officers under delegated authority.

He said: “This application meets the criteria for being delegated to officers for a decision.

“Elected members can ask for delegated applications to be brought to an area planning committee for a decision provided there is a planning reason for this. There was no request for this to go to an area planning sub-committee.

“The application was dealt with in accordance with our normal procedure for delegated applications.”

Comments(41)

Gary Gilmores Eyes says...
8:06am Tue 4 Sep 12

'Passengers emerging from the railway station would only have to walk a short distance to catch buses to most destinations in York and further afield.'

So under these proposals passengers will have to walk further to catch a bus than they do now straight outside the station! Is that an improvement?

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Jazzper says...
8:09am Tue 4 Sep 12

Gary Gilmores Eyes wrote:
'Passengers emerging from the railway station would only have to walk a short distance to catch buses to most destinations in York and further afield.'

So under these proposals passengers will have to walk further to catch a bus than they do now straight outside the station! Is that an improvement?
Gary open your eyes....you've posted on the wrong article!

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AnotherPointofView says...
8:37am Tue 4 Sep 12

"Cllr Waters said he personally felt the building would harm York’s skyline and councillors’ duty was to maintain the prominence of York Minster from all vantage points."

How then did the Yorkshire wheel get planning permission?

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CHISSY1 says...
8:48am Tue 4 Sep 12

AnotherPointofView wrote:
"Cllr Waters said he personally felt the building would harm York’s skyline and councillors’ duty was to maintain the prominence of York Minster from all vantage points."

How then did the Yorkshire wheel get planning permission?
"There is a difference between the Yorkshire wheel and an ugly Mosque.The wheel can be dismantled,unlike a Mosque.

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Johnboy. says...
8:58am Tue 4 Sep 12

Why not just let the people of York decide , have a vote ! After all it is their city and not the idiots who make these rash decisions without asking them .

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Oncebitten says...
9:00am Tue 4 Sep 12

Minster, Mosque or wheel I have no objections to any of them.....however I think they ALL blot a very nice skyline.

This just sounds, yet again, like the I'm not racist but brigade.....

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voiceofnormalpeople says...
9:08am Tue 4 Sep 12

So if you build on your house you have to put in planning, they send a letter to all the residants around you to ask them if they have any concerns. But a mosque can get built with out any residants imput? Bet any other "cough building would have had more scrutany cough"

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Elephant says...
9:13am Tue 4 Sep 12

Apparently York Minster was also built without planning permission.

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Micklegate says...
9:28am Tue 4 Sep 12

Elephant wrote:
Apparently York Minster was also built without planning permission.
Given the speed the planning department works they probably completed it and applied retrospectively.....
...... and are just waiting to hear the outcome!

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Buzz Light-year says...
9:30am Tue 4 Sep 12

There is no way in the world anyone can cite damage to skyline while just fifty yards away a huge however many storeys high gulag is creating a deep urban valley at the old dairy.

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Pete the Brickie says...
9:48am Tue 4 Sep 12



He said he personally felt the building would harm York’s skyline and councillors’ duty was to maintain the prominence of York Minster from all vantage points.



There aren't many places where the view of the Minster will be blocked by this building really and there are buildings of not dissimilar height on the surrounding streets.

If the building complies with regulations, there is sufficient parking and noise issues have been addressed permission will be given as it is in a large majority of cases using the procedure the council has used as the article states.

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Fat Harry says...
10:32am Tue 4 Sep 12

Great.

"Muddy" Warters is continuing his one-man campaign to stop anything ever being built in York.

All we need now is the nutters of the EDL to parachute in and jump on his independent coat-tails.

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Ignatius Lumpopo says...
11:26am Tue 4 Sep 12

I'd much rather have an elegant mosque and its attendant minarets that that exscrecence on top of the telephone exchange. Ugly building, ugly tower. Why doesn't BT get it in the neck as it should do? Ugliest building in York.

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Chrido81 says...
12:23pm Tue 4 Sep 12

Let me stand close behind my house. Yep, the skyline is obscured all right.

Let me stand away from my house.

Oh look It's the Minster!

Stop being NIMBYs and get the mosque built!

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YorkPatrol says...
1:00pm Tue 4 Sep 12

Fat Harry wrote:
Great. "Muddy" Warters is continuing his one-man campaign to stop anything ever being built in York. All we need now is the nutters of the EDL to parachute in and jump on his independent coat-tails.
The EDL have a lot of valid points and if York started to turn into another Luton, I'm sure more folk up here would join up!

I would love this to go to public vote as I know exactly as to the outcome... very few want this to happen!

Mosque's have thier place but NOT HERE!

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Scarlet Pimpernel says...
1:07pm Tue 4 Sep 12

We all know why the Council put this through on the 'nod' don't we ?

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Turpinette says...
1:08pm Tue 4 Sep 12

How is a three story building going to block the view from Osbaldwick of the Minster? The blocks of flats in the next street are four story, so they are already in the way - if anything is actually in the way! The only thing it will block is the view of the modern warehouses of James Street Industrial Estate from the local residents, who have peacefully co-existed with the mosque that is already there for a number of years.

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Scarlet Pimpernel says...
1:10pm Tue 4 Sep 12

If Alexander and England want something to go ahead, they don't let public opposition, rules or process get in the way - just like the MX2 decision and the 'cut and shut' planning report they engineered !

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Scarlet Pimpernel says...
1:16pm Tue 4 Sep 12

This sets a dangerous precedent, and for consistency, applicants will be asking for any controversial building of any design up to £1m in value should be dealt with without it going before a planning committee.

This is a large building, highly controversial in appearance, and it has been given planning consent without debate. It's appalling - the building and the decision !"

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Chrido81 says...
1:23pm Tue 4 Sep 12

Is it any wonder these fast-tracks are being applied? York is full of people who will object at anything if it blocks their view of the scaffolding on the Minster.

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yorkboy60 says...
1:46pm Tue 4 Sep 12

YorkPatrol wrote:
Fat Harry wrote:
Great. "Muddy" Warters is continuing his one-man campaign to stop anything ever being built in York. All we need now is the nutters of the EDL to parachute in and jump on his independent coat-tails.
The EDL have a lot of valid points and if York started to turn into another Luton, I'm sure more folk up here would join up!

I would love this to go to public vote as I know exactly as to the outcome... very few want this to happen!

Mosque's have thier place but NOT HERE!
but there is already one there....durrrr!

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ShunGokuSatsu says...
3:16pm Tue 4 Sep 12

YorkPatrol wrote:
Fat Harry wrote: Great. "Muddy" Warters is continuing his one-man campaign to stop anything ever being built in York. All we need now is the nutters of the EDL to parachute in and jump on his independent coat-tails.
The EDL have a lot of valid points and if York started to turn into another Luton, I'm sure more folk up here would join up! I would love this to go to public vote as I know exactly as to the outcome... very few want this to happen! Mosque's have thier place but NOT HERE!
The EDL are a group of racist thugs whose principle usefulness to British society is to act like such room-temperature-IQ knuckle-draggers that they make all racist chumps look ridiculous by association. They'd actually be pretty funny is they'd stop knocking shop fronts in.

Mosques do indeed have their place; their place is where there's a Muslim population in need of a place of worship. Concerns about due process and planning permission are as valid as in any other large-scale building project; the fact that this building happens to be a mosque is irrelevant, and pretending that opposition on those grounds is based in anything other than ignorance and fear of an alien culture is laughable.

I wish people would stop bandying around "political correctness" as a sneering denouncement of "not being racist." Avoiding discriminatory measures isn't some partisan posture, it's a basic step in not being a ****head.

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eeoodares says...
5:20pm Tue 4 Sep 12

I think it is great, working in Kingston (London) earlier in the year and the call to prayer sounded very dramatic...almost like being abroad.
When this begins in York it will certainly add spice and flavour to our old fashioned City.

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idlehousewife says...
8:27pm Tue 4 Sep 12

I can't believe some of the ill-advised comments on this article.
On what grounds can the mosque be described as ugly? Many of the most beautiful buildings in the world are mosques and so far there has been nothing to suggest that this one will be any different. As for the comment that mosques should just be in Islamic countries,then does it follow that churches should only be in Italy synagogues in Israel, gudwaras in India etc etc? What arrant nonsense.

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old_geezer says...
8:40pm Tue 4 Sep 12

If anything "harms the York skyline" then the Park Inn, and nearby buildings lining Rougier Street are prime contenders.

This Anglo-Saxon atheist welcomes the mosque.

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lels says...
9:38pm Tue 4 Sep 12

old_geezer wrote:
If anything "harms the York skyline" then the Park Inn, and nearby buildings lining Rougier Street are prime contenders.

This Anglo-Saxon atheist welcomes the mosque.
Here here! I am an atheist as well but I believe in the freedom for anyone of any religion to worship as they please and where they please. We are a multi cultural multi faith country and anyone who tries to say otherwise should look at the figures for church-going. Live and let live.

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Scarlet Pimpernel says...
10:56pm Tue 4 Sep 12

Why was the wiki-leaks link on muslim demographics in the UK, that I posted removed ?

What happened to freedom of speech ?

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jgycfc says...
1:25am Wed 5 Sep 12

Would love to know how the Muslims have had such a negative impact on YorkPatrol's life for such a strong view. What with York being 92% causacian (courtesy of Wikipedia)... Wow what has the 8% of anything but done to you? Must be pretty severe.

What's that? York is historically made up of such immigrant waves of Romans, Vikings, Angles, etc.

Using Luton (fell foul of lack of manufacturing) as an example is poor. Why not use the North East which has struggled and has different socio-economic problems, but is predominantly Caucasian?

and anyway there's already a mosque in York, it's not "A second" mosque.

Out of interest, how often do you attend the other religious buildings that are scattered across the city?

Mark Waters et al all seem to smack of bigotry through lack of exposure. Build the mosque, pull down Park Inn and BT monstrosity. That's what I say.

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Omega Point says...
8:11am Wed 5 Sep 12

Touche or is that touchi

Report this post »

CHISSY1 says...
10:06am Wed 5 Sep 12

I did say majority,read all the comments and the papers.You felt safer in Luton,simple solution,live there among your friends.

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god does not exist says...
2:38am Thu 6 Sep 12

Maybe it's about one law for them and one law for everybody else or maybe it's about the council expecting objection and being arrogant and not interested in what the people say or want.
But what you must realise is that if this had been a Hindu temple or a Sikh temple or any other type of building it would for one have gone through normal planning routes and nobody would have been bothered . But people look around the world an see Islam as a oppressive theopolitical ideology hell bent on world domination and determined to end all religions other than Islam and they truly fear that and you can't blame them when you look at how minorities are treated in Muslim majority countries. It's not down to us to change the change must come from Islam if it wants to be accepted

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god does not exist says...
2:41am Thu 6 Sep 12

Islam is not a race its an Ideology and not beyond criticism, An Ideology just like Communism or National Socialism so please don't call me a racist

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jgycfc says...
5:00am Thu 6 Sep 12

It's probably worth pointing out also though god does not exist that your first post could have the word "baptism" as interchangeable with Islam in the non-planning bit. George "W" championed this, and their quashing of evolutionary theories is concern alone. It's not Islam, it's extremists in any way of life.

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Shouter says...
8:16am Thu 6 Sep 12

No problem with the mosque - everyone should be allowed to worship in their own chosen way - but no amplified call to prayer please. Local people would not appreciate being woken up at 5am by loud wailing from the minarets.

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lis0r says...
10:55am Thu 6 Sep 12

Shouter wrote:
No problem with the mosque - everyone should be allowed to worship in their own chosen way - but no amplified call to prayer please. Local people would not appreciate being woken up at 5am by loud wailing from the minarets.
They've already explicitly said that'll never happen.

That said - church bells, anyone? Personally, I'd rather not be woken up by some inconsiderate god botherer calling people to prayer, regardless of their affiliation.

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Falsgrave says...
11:31am Thu 6 Sep 12

ShunGokuSatsu wrote:
YorkPatrol wrote:
Fat Harry wrote: Great. "Muddy" Warters is continuing his one-man campaign to stop anything ever being built in York. All we need now is the nutters of the EDL to parachute in and jump on his independent coat-tails.
The EDL have a lot of valid points and if York started to turn into another Luton, I'm sure more folk up here would join up! I would love this to go to public vote as I know exactly as to the outcome... very few want this to happen! Mosque's have thier place but NOT HERE!
The EDL are a group of racist thugs whose principle usefulness to British society is to act like such room-temperature-IQ knuckle-draggers that they make all racist chumps look ridiculous by association. They'd actually be pretty funny is they'd stop knocking shop fronts in.

Mosques do indeed have their place; their place is where there's a Muslim population in need of a place of worship. Concerns about due process and planning permission are as valid as in any other large-scale building project; the fact that this building happens to be a mosque is irrelevant, and pretending that opposition on those grounds is based in anything other than ignorance and fear of an alien culture is laughable.

I wish people would stop bandying around "political correctness" as a sneering denouncement of "not being racist." Avoiding discriminatory measures isn't some partisan posture, it's a basic step in not being a ****head.
@ShunGokuSatsu - very nicely put.

Report this post »

rjm2k1 says...
12:33pm Thu 6 Sep 12

It's 2012, no more buildings should be put up for any religion, it's time that such fairytales were allowed to die out.

There would be far fewer problems in the world without them.

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York born and bred says...
6:08pm Thu 6 Sep 12

As a person of African descent who has lived all over this great country of OURS, I know first hand about the ignorant and uneducated people of all classes and creeds, equally i also know first hand about all the educated and wonderful people of all religions who make up our multi-cultural society in which we expect to be able to live in peace. Once again I see and hear people who have opinions from what they obviously have no idea what they are talking about, these are people who feel it is their duty to protect the minority in all walks of life i.e. Gays, cyclists, homeless and of course muslims, they fail to side with the majority of most of the world who see things from ground level and not their ivory towers from which they think we all exist. It is in my experience of living in this country that every race of people are integrated into society for they feel their belonging is worthy of a peaceful and happy, fruitful life. Unfortunately and sadly I find this is not the case with the muslim community, they, for reasons known only unto themselves refuse steadfastly to integrate with anyone but of their own ilk, I have seen this happen first hand all over this land with my own eyes and it is not pretty, at first we treat them as some kind of novelty oooh they dont mean any harm let them in, then before you know there is another family just around the corner then another and another and so on, then net outcome of this, and the statistics prove this, is first the property prices start to fall, then the general area start to fall into decline so the only people who want to live here are the friends and familys of each other which in turn creates no go areas for the local populus, we have all heard the stories; dont go down there dont go here... the the next thing is unemployment rises which leads to a rise in crime, then the first spoken language at school is not English, our own kids start to feel like we are second class as the authorities seem to bend over backwards and succumb to their every whim on the premise of a vote.Open your eyes people this is happening,this is the real deal, if you dont believe me take a trip to West Yorkshire, Thornhill, on entering this ex mining town you are greeted (sic) with a sign which reads ' you are now entering a shariah law area, cover your shoulders and your legs' this is less than an hour away from York. You probably think I am banging on about this because I dont want this mosque being built, wrong the mosque already their is and has being big enough for previous generations, why now do they need bigger ? do they know something we dont are they keeping something from us... you have been warned. . .

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peter123456 says...
9:31am Fri 7 Sep 12

I am not racist but I do believe in equality. So for every mosque built in this country we build a Christian church in their countries. There in lies the problem. They are racist not us. So the council should wait until all Muslim countries come on board with this. Then we might all start living peacefully together.

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eeoodares says...
10:07am Fri 7 Sep 12

Regarding the call to prayer...sorry to burst your bubble. Once this building has been built eventually the call to prayer will be played. Do not doubt it, do not think it will never happen, do not think that the attendees do not want it to happen.
Ask yourself, WHY would it not be allowed? why would the mosque not have the same rights as all the Christian churches in the City?

Call to prayers are on their way to you, like it, lump it or move!

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Dave Taylor says...
2:50pm Fri 7 Sep 12

There's a mass of misinformation here.

There are no minarets, or 'spires' as we might describe them on a Christian church. The previous application was amended to look far less 'Islamic'.

There is no intention to have a 'call for prayer'. The Mosque representatives have told me this in no uncertain terms.

The building replaces the existing mosque, but is bigger as there is now a larger Muslim population - predominantly student growth.

I too am an Anglo-Saxon aetheist, but I have no problem with Christians, Muslims, Wiccans, or any other religion having their own place of worship. Maybe one day York will have a synogogue, except that some hate-filled vermin would probably burn it down...

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