Big revamp for King's Square as café idea is dropped (From York Press)
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York Chocolate Story's café plan dropped after backlash from buskers
9:41am Thursday 9th August 2012 in News
King's Square in York
CONTROVERSIAL plans for a street café in York’s King’s Square have been withdrawn – and the area could now undergo a huge regeneration.
Continuum, which runs York’s Chocolate Story, has withdrawn its plans for a café outside its building following a backlash from street performers who use the square.
Council planning officers yesterday recommended the plan be approved, but Continuum withdrew its application nonetheless. The firm said it hoped to find a way in future to “share the square”.
The Press can reveal City of York Council has drawn up plans to develop the square as part of the Reinvigorate York programme, which could see the road narrowed and two parking bays removed to expand the pedestrianised area.
The section of Colliergate near the square could also be repaved, in a similar style to Coney Street, to make it feel more pedestrian-friendly.
Sir Ron Cooke, chairman of Reinvigorate York, said the aim was to “improve and enhance” the square and said he hoped the wishes of everyone who uses the square could be accommodated.
Coun Dave Merrett , the council’s cabinet member for transport issues, said the plans were still being designed ad would go to public consultation in the autumn at the earliest.
The Press understand that motorists with disabled badges will still be able to park further along Colliergate.
Buskers, who had feared the proposed café would squeeze them out of their pitch nd had organised a huge petition against the proposal, yesterday welcomed Continuum’s decision to shelve their plans.
Escapologist Rob Roy Collins said he was delighted the firm had “seen sense and listened to the outcry from the public”.
He said: “We have been overwhelmed by the public support, which included 5,200 people who signed the petition in a couple of weeks.”
He said he hoped all parties in the square could now build bridges.
Mark Wallis, a regular performer in the square and one of those behind the petition, said: “We are all extremely happy and I’m sure the people of York are happy. It has been the people of York coming forward saying ‘we want our open space and don’t want it taking over’.”
Chrissie and Ed Jackson, who run lemonade and ice cream stalls on the square, said: “It has been obvious from the overwhelming response to the campaign of opposition to the development that the people of York hold this space very dearly. We hope we can all now put this behind us and that the King’s Square community can work together to ensure that any future alterations to this beautiful space meets the needs and wishes of vistors, surrounding businesses and most importantly the people of York themselves.”
Kevin Smith, Continuum’s director of attractions, said the firm had never aimed to drive buskers from the square. He said: “They add vibrancy to the area, and we are keen to see them remain part of a shared square,” he said. “(But) our ‘share the square’ perspective has clearly not been fully heard.”
He said it would now “consider a way forward with all stakeholders on how we might, in future, best share the square to everyone’s benefit”.
Comments(36)
Zetkin
says...
10:02am Thu 9 Aug 12
However, it's a concern that Continuum have not said they won't try again.
It's claptrap to say they want to "share the square" when they know fine well their plans impinge on the area needed for performers' audiences.
When they taked davantage of the council officers' recommenadtion to accept, and re-submit their plans, how long before they start complaining that the performances are adversely affecting their customers' enjoyment of their over-priced coffee?
The cafe is not the core of Continuum's business and there is no good reason for them to attempt to grab this valuable PUBLIC space for themselves.
This battle hasn't been won yet.
roskoboskovic
says...
10:06am Thu 9 Aug 12
bolero
says...
10:07am Thu 9 Aug 12
notmyrealname
says...
10:09am Thu 9 Aug 12
sheps lad
says...
10:23am Thu 9 Aug 12
TONY THE TORCHE
says...
10:23am Thu 9 Aug 12
MrsHoney
says...
11:10am Thu 9 Aug 12
YSTClinguist
says...
11:26am Thu 9 Aug 12
I'd rather see a benched area surrounding a couple of sectioned off performing areas suitable for buskers, street performers, bands (modern and old) Something to fill that empty space and make it fit visually in with the surroundings. Currently we see groups of teenagers sat on the floor there, and will, when the weather turns, become a wind tunnel affected area, cold and dusty.
www.yorkstories.co.uk
says...
11:28am Thu 9 Aug 12
There were around 80 comments registered, and I couldn't find one 'Support' comment. They were all objections. Giving valid reasons. It wasn't just about street performers, but about all the people who use the square, or walk through it. I'm no planning expert but can't see any way the plan could be justified.
The threat remains, I think, and will no doubt reappear.
Older Sometimes Wiser
says...
12:27pm Thu 9 Aug 12
www.yorkstories.co.uI agree one must be vigilant when dealing with " Planning Officers", who I find tend to " live on another planet" speaking a tongue that few of us on Earth can comprehend!
k wrote:
The most shocking line in this article is "Council planning officers yesterday recommended the plan be approved". If that's true - and it's hard to tell as I've not been able to find the relevant document on the council's website - then perhaps we should despair.
There were around 80 comments registered, and I couldn't find one 'Support' comment. They were all objections. Giving valid reasons. It wasn't just about street performers, but about all the people who use the square, or walk through it. I'm no planning expert but can't see any way the plan could be justified.
The threat remains, I think, and will no doubt reappear.
Also why we should we wish to " share the Square with Continuum whose frontage does nothing to enhance the ambiance of Kings Square?
yorkie71
says...
12:50pm Thu 9 Aug 12
What planet are they on ? overwhelming public concern about right of access/crowding etc should the outside cafe be approved and OUR ellected officials blindly go ahead with their own agenda ? thank god it was withdrawn, but I bet it wont be the last we have heard of it
gravitydrips
says...
1:10pm Thu 9 Aug 12
Jezreel
says...
1:51pm Thu 9 Aug 12
If the abuse is effectively policed the number of cars will diminish without inconveniencing the disabled who already have enough problems. I like buskers, but we have to consider the disabled first.
meme
says...
3:59pm Thu 9 Aug 12
York Rover
says...
10:47pm Thu 9 Aug 12
" lol you take your life in your hands every time u walk down Coney street after 6pm can't believe the amount of fast traffic allowed down there, since moving to York that is my biggest let down
York1900
says...
3:03am Fri 10 Aug 12
The section of Colliergate near the square could also be repaved, in a similar style to Coney Street, to make it feel more pedestrian-friendly.
Leave Alone you will destroy King’s Square and Colliergate
I would sooner have a defined road and footpath
Colliergate is too narrow to be paved like Coney street you would get delivery vehicles pulling up too close to the shops and others trying to pass hence no footpath at least as it is there is a footpath
.
Even AndyD
says...
6:53am Fri 10 Aug 12
www.yorkstories.co.uWorried me too. Such a bad idea even the owners agree. But it got permission?
k wrote:
The most shocking line in this article is "Council planning officers yesterday recommended the plan be approved". If that's true - and it's hard to tell as I've not been able to find the relevant document on the council's website - then perhaps we should despair.
There were around 80 comments registered, and I couldn't find one 'Support' comment. They were all objections. Giving valid reasons. It wasn't just about street performers, but about all the people who use the square, or walk through it. I'm no planning expert but can't see any way the plan could be justified.
The threat remains, I think, and will no doubt reappear.
themanthebeardthelegend
says...
7:57am Fri 10 Aug 12
gravitydrips wrote:then where would you suggest they park instead?
I'm going to be the one to say this but I think the biggest improvement would actually be to remove the disabled parking from Kings Square. Like St' Sampons Square, cars parked in Kings Square are the biggest impediment to pedestrians there. The square could then be widened, Chocolate Story could gets it's cafe and the buskers would have their space to perform.
personally I'm more concerned with disabled people being able to enjoy the city as much as anyone else, rather than a few people whingeing about cars being an "impediment to pedestrians" (are they?).
Sawday2
says...
8:49am Fri 10 Aug 12
Jezreel wrote:Playing Devil's Advocate here but last time I checked a disabled person's car took up exactly the same space as a non-disabled person's car so how can it be that they are less of a problem?
That old chestnut again ! There is no problem with disabled parking. The problem is with non-disabled parking ie. those who abuse the scheme by using the parking card of a relative when they have no disabled person with them .
If the abuse is effectively policed the number of cars will diminish without inconveniencing the disabled who already have enough problems. I like buskers, but we have to consider the disabled first.
PinzaC55
says...
9:39am Fri 10 Aug 12
roskoboskovic wrote:I agree the fountain should go into the same landfill site that the Splash Palace did.
shouldn t they do something with parliament street first.the place is an eyesore but it is the nearest thing we ve got to a city square and should be seen as a focal point.the fountain should be removed for a start and the whole area redeveloped.the cycle racks should be put somewhere else and whoever decided to place them there should be publicly flogged.
Kings Square looks very untidy to me. If I was in charge the first thing to go would be that cluster of phone boxes and the cash machine which are an eyesore besides the fact hardly anyone uses phone boxes nowadays.
Ignatius Lumpopo
says...
10:18am Fri 10 Aug 12
pedalling paul
says...
10:38am Fri 10 Aug 12
roskoboskovic wrote:"...the cycle racks should be put somewhere else and whoever decided to place them there should be publicly flogged."
shouldn t they do something with parliament street first.the place is an eyesore but it is the nearest thing we ve got to a city square and should be seen as a focal point.the fountain should be removed for a start and the whole area redeveloped.the cycle racks should be put somewhere else and whoever decided to place them there should be publicly flogged.
Tch. Tch Tch!
It would be useful if every employer in the City could provide secure on site cycle parking for those of their staff who pedal to work. Also useful if cycling shoppers had an underground bike park in the vicinity
www.biceberg.es/INGL
ES/ for an expensive example.
One bike very often equals one less car, and has a time saving competitive advantage for short urban journeys, due to its ability to penetrate closer to one's final destination. Remove the bike racks and you'd get uncontrollable cycle parking chaos, plus a disincentive to use pedal power. Bad news all round,.
m dee
says...
11:36am Fri 10 Aug 12
www.yorkstories.co.uI agree its not just the buskers school groups and visitors and residents alike use the square on a regular basis,to think the council would just gain a few hundred pounds per year and ignore all the valid concerns including public safety issues really does make you think.
k wrote:
The most shocking line in this article is "Council planning officers yesterday recommended the plan be approved". If that's true - and it's hard to tell as I've not been able to find the relevant document on the council's website - then perhaps we should despair.
There were around 80 comments registered, and I couldn't find one 'Support' comment. They were all objections. Giving valid reasons. It wasn't just about street performers, but about all the people who use the square, or walk through it. I'm no planning expert but can't see any way the plan could be justified.
The threat remains, I think, and will no doubt reappear.
TerryYork
says...
11:48am Fri 10 Aug 12
Crap acts and work with pickpockets who pray on the large gatherings.
Kick them out of the square.
m dee
says...
12:00pm Fri 10 Aug 12
gravitydrips wrote:Firstly looking at the amount of disabled blue badge holders visiting the City centre I would think they contribute to the local economy to deter them would be a loss to local businesses.
I'm going to be the one to say this but I think the biggest improvement would actually be to remove the disabled parking from Kings Square. Like St' Sampons Square, cars parked in Kings Square are the biggest impediment to pedestrians there. The square could then be widened, Chocolate Story could gets it's cafe and the buskers would have their space to perform.
Also why should expanding a private business be put before disadvantaged people,Colliergate is a designated street for blue badge holders to exit the pedestrian zone so would still have a traffic flow,plus it would encourage parking on the narrow end of colliergate as disabled can park on double yellows.
Might I suggest leave it as it is save the of expense of changing it and should the Chocolate story find they have outgrown their current premises consider relocating to a more suitable location,although credit to them for actually listening to public concerns.
lezyork1966
says...
12:27pm Fri 10 Aug 12
PinzaC55
says...
2:19pm Fri 10 Aug 12
m dee wrote:I've a friend who works for a restaurant and he says the council would actually have charged about £15,000 P.A for use of the pavement for tables.
www.yorkstories.co.uI agree its not just the buskers school groups and visitors and residents alike use the square on a regular basis,to think the council would just gain a few hundred pounds per year and ignore all the valid concerns including public safety issues really does make you think.
k wrote:
The most shocking line in this article is "Council planning officers yesterday recommended the plan be approved". If that's true - and it's hard to tell as I've not been able to find the relevant document on the council's website - then perhaps we should despair.
There were around 80 comments registered, and I couldn't find one 'Support' comment. They were all objections. Giving valid reasons. It wasn't just about street performers, but about all the people who use the square, or walk through it. I'm no planning expert but can't see any way the plan could be justified.
The threat remains, I think, and will no doubt reappear.
rodney'sdog
says...
2:30pm Fri 10 Aug 12
m dee
says...
2:33pm Fri 10 Aug 12
PinzaC55 wrote:Thanks for correcting me on that,it explains why planning may have been granted despite so many people against it.
m dee wrote:I've a friend who works for a restaurant and he says the council would actually have charged about £15,000 P.A for use of the pavement for tables.
www.yorkstories.co.uI agree its not just the buskers school groups and visitors and residents alike use the square on a regular basis,to think the council would just gain a few hundred pounds per year and ignore all the valid concerns including public safety issues really does make you think.
k wrote:
The most shocking line in this article is "Council planning officers yesterday recommended the plan be approved". If that's true - and it's hard to tell as I've not been able to find the relevant document on the council's website - then perhaps we should despair.
There were around 80 comments registered, and I couldn't find one 'Support' comment. They were all objections. Giving valid reasons. It wasn't just about street performers, but about all the people who use the square, or walk through it. I'm no planning expert but can't see any way the plan could be justified.
The threat remains, I think, and will no doubt reappear.
scooterboy
says...
7:02pm Fri 10 Aug 12
Scarlet Pimpernel
says...
11:22pm Fri 10 Aug 12
Even AndyD wrote:It didn't get permission - it was withdrawn.......
www.yorkstories.co.uWorried me too. Such a bad idea even the owners agree. But it got permission?
k wrote:
The most shocking line in this article is "Council planning officers yesterday recommended the plan be approved". If that's true - and it's hard to tell as I've not been able to find the relevant document on the council's website - then perhaps we should despair.
There were around 80 comments registered, and I couldn't find one 'Support' comment. They were all objections. Giving valid reasons. It wasn't just about street performers, but about all the people who use the square, or walk through it. I'm no planning expert but can't see any way the plan could be justified.
The threat remains, I think, and will no doubt reappear.
Council planning officers yesterday recommended the plan be approved, but Continuum withdrew its application nonetheless.
Steve,
says...
2:33pm Sat 11 Aug 12
Rosko you're wrong, the fountain is as much a trademark as the theatre Royal in York and adds a 'fresh' part of street furniture to the city, there's no others.
The cafe have no right to wrangle extra space for seating - how long have they been there, 2mins? are their profits really a priority over people standing there earning a few quid? everyone moans employment is low but these 'entertainers' get out very often and perform in the hope of a few quid; I couldn't so credit where its due.
AnotherPointofView
says...
11:00am Sun 12 Aug 12
TONY THE TORCHE wrote:Miserable g**.
Great now I wont be able to move for the morons gawping at buskers/fellow morons!!
Scarlet Pimpernel
says...
2:00pm Sun 12 Aug 12
Steve, wrote:When an application is withdrawn, no decision is taken, therefore it was not approved. Officer recommendation is not a consent, it's a recommendation.
It DID get permission, but the application was shelved; not scrapped, worryingly. Rosko you're wrong, the fountain is as much a trademark as the theatre Royal in York and adds a 'fresh' part of street furniture to the city, there's no others. The cafe have no right to wrangle extra space for seating - how long have they been there, 2mins? are their profits really a priority over people standing there earning a few quid? everyone moans employment is low but these 'entertainers' get out very often and perform in the hope of a few quid; I couldn't so credit where its due.
www.yorkstories.co.uk
says...
12:25am Thu 16 Aug 12
dodgydavereturns says...
10:01am Thu 9 Aug 12
Good news for the buskers in the mean time though