Busking battle hots up (From York Press)

The unnamed spokes person for the Chocolate museum is Micheal Constantine. I used to work with him, nice bloke but a corporate boy through to the core. I don't believe for a second that he likes the Buskers being outside his museum.

C'mon everyone, fight for the buskers to the bitter end. Reclaim our squares!

Agree with Woody.

Our public space is being privatised and taken over by corporations.
I know that it's how the system of discretion works but it's amazing that out of all the appreciative public and the passive traders, complaints from *one* shopkeeper can mean Magic Ball dude gets shifted.
I hope that it's a long-standing shopkeeper and not a new one.


Incidently - Woody... how come you gained a G?

I've been in several continental squares where the competitive cafes offer buskers money to entertain their clients. All done with chuckles and smiles.

York? Dog eat dog. Argue argue argue. Me me me.

Buzz Light-year wrote:
Agree with Woody.

Our public space is being privatised and taken over by corporations.
I know that it's how the system of discretion works but it's amazing that out of all the appreciative public and the passive traders, complaints from *one* shopkeeper can mean Magic Ball dude gets shifted.
I hope that it's a long-standing shopkeeper and not a new one.


Incidently - Woody... how come you gained a G?

To cut a long story short I had to add the G for re-registering.

(Joe's middle name was Graham)

The Chocolate Story is primarily a museum/visitor attraction and its cafe is only incidental to its main purpose.
If it is not good enough at being a visitor attraction to survive without squeezing out the buskers in King's Square, then it is not worth its salt--or its chocolate.
We should resist the privatization of public space. Buskers are part of a vibrant street culture and contribute a lot to the city's charm for locals and tourists alike.

Yes the Chocolate place “want buskers in the square”……..it�
��s just that they want to take over the space exactly where all the crowds stand. Love their common sense!

The buskers bring history, character, wit, variety and talent with their performances – the crowds add to this by bringing fun, laughter, applause, cheering, interaction and atmosphere. No point having street entertainers if there’s no room to stand and be entertained.

Cheers Woody, just as I thought.

Who would want to sit in King’s Square at a table with the pigons flying a round
tring to get scraps of food

The Chocolate Story did not put there request of outside tables in there planing request when they set up The Chocolate Story if they had they may of had it's planing turned down

There are other food out lets that could lay claim to having tables in King’s Square but they do not

there is a lot of propaganda and nonsense being talked about buskers generally, so a question. How much business rates does a busker pay for earning very good money in prime retail locations? Another question? how many York residents do the Buskers employ? and another question. How many of the buskers actually live in the York area and pay council tax to support our amenities? and yet another question how many of the Buskers pay tax and ni conts on their very good earnings, Lasy question why should Busking activities be supported over the interests of bona fide local business that have invested vast sums in York and do all of the above? PLEASE LETS HAVE A LITTLE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ISSUE

York1900 wrote:
Who would want to sit in King’s Square at a table with the pigons flying a round tring to get scraps of food The Chocolate Story did not put there request of outside tables in there planing request when they set up The Chocolate Story if they had they may of had it's planing turned down There are other food out lets that could lay claim to having tables in King’s Square but they do not

You're right, they did not have outside tables in the original request. The £2mill "investment" does not benefit me in any way. I dare say I cant even afford nor want a cup of their dairy-laden stuff. Buskers pay for their license and what would you have them do, Peterstreet, be on the dole?

Ya boo sucks @ Peter Street, ya misery. Buskers forever!!!

RoseD wrote:

York1900 wrote:
Who would want to sit in King’s Square at a table with the pigons flying a round tring to get scraps of food The Chocolate Story did not put there request of outside tables in there planing request when they set up The Chocolate Story if they had they may of had it's planing turned down There are other food out lets that could lay claim to having tables in King’s Square but they do not

You're right, they did not have outside tables in the original request. The £2mill "investment" does not benefit me in any way. I dare say I cant even afford nor want a cup of their dairy-laden stuff. Buskers pay for their license and what would you have them do, Peterstreet, be on the dole?

How do you know that some of the travelling buskers aren’t claiming benefits elsewhere? There have been many cases of buskers and other itinerant traders doing just that nationwide, so please do some research before you spout and I was not talking about Kings Square but Buskers and the business scene in York city centre generally. But, It should be obvious to anybody that read the article properly that the Kings Square Buskers, at least two of them for certain, are in breach of the Council’s street entertainment rules. Bona fide permanent, tax paying businesses cannot get away with breaking the rules, what’s so special about Buskers? I also notice that you do not attempt to answer my questions? How about it? Cat got your tongue?

MrsDingledongle wrote:
Ya boo sucks @ Peter Street, ya misery. Buskers forever!!!

as I said there is alot of propaganda and nonsense being talked about buskers generally! especially by buskers!

There's a very fine line to be drawn here.
1. Buskers
2. Street Entertainers
3. Beggars
I support the 1st two !!

Jazzper wrote:
There's a very fine line to be drawn here.
1. Buskers
2. Street Entertainers
3. Beggars
I support the 1st two !!

Is that why you use 2 exclaimation marks. As for your support, You probably do if you are a tax payer!
some of 'em anyway!! wow 2

peterstreet wrote:
there is a lot of propaganda and nonsense being talked about buskers generally, so a question. How much business rates does a busker pay for earning very good money in prime retail locations? Another question? how many York residents do the Buskers employ? and another question. How many of the buskers actually live in the York area and pay council tax to support our amenities? and yet another question how many of the Buskers pay tax and ni conts on their very good earnings, Lasy question why should Busking activities be supported over the interests of bona fide local business that have invested vast sums in York and do all of the above? PLEASE LETS HAVE A LITTLE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ISSUE

Thing is the street entertainers are registered with the local council therefore bona fide in the eyes of the law ,the reasons they should be supported as in the picture they are enjoyed by hundreds of visitors and residents.
The very spot where you see the large crowd watching the entertainer would be lost by residents/visitors as a open area for the sake of a private business taking it over for extra space.
As for investing vast sums in York they have invested in a business venture and judging by their ticket prices will soon recoup this ,and despite only been open a short time are trying to expand in a very clever way taking over a open space that is very much enjoyed by many and as been for many years

I am British, and grew up in England. I now live in the USA, and am married to an American. I can perhaps give a viewpoint from the perspective of a tourist, but with the understanding of a Brit.

My wife and I love York. We visit if possible every time we come to the UK. What attracts us? Well, obviously the history, but also the ambience. An important part of that ambience is the Busking. Do we enjoy all of the Buskers? No, of course not. Not all of them are going to be to everyone's tastes, but the entertainment aspect of the majority is important. Do we go to York as tourists to visit the shops? No. While we buy things when there, that is not the primary draw. Do we go to York to partake of a cafe with "sidewalk" seats? No. It might be that we would use one when there, but we would not be seeking any specific cafe. Do we visit museums? Yes. Would we partake of a drink at a museum? Maybe, but that would not be the primary draw - in fact it is our general experience that museums should stick to matters historical and not culinary (although one might argue that a Chocolate museum is doing both!).

My point is that the addition of yet more tables and chairs outside is not a primary draw, nor will it add to ambience. The buskers however are and do.

To address PeterStreet's points specifically:

"How much business rates does a busker pay for earning very good money in prime retail locations?"

Probably none, but my understanding is that they do pay a license, and they are a draw to the businesses of York. It's that ambience thing again! And without visitors, the prime retail locations will be in trouble!

"how many York residents do the Buskers employ?"

Well, obviously I cannot say with certainty, but the majority probably none. However... once again, we have to look at the spin-off benefit. If there are fewer tourists such as ourselves, then there will be reduced income to the businesses, and consequentially fewer people employed by those businesses, so although the direct answer to your question is "none" (or few), the indirect answer may well be "significant numbers".

"How many of the buskers actually live in the York area and pay council tax to support our amenities?"

Probably as many as the visitors who willingly give up their money to support local businesses while visiting - and once again, we're back at that spin-off effect...

"how many of the Buskers pay tax and ni(sic) conts(sic) on their very good earnings"

I think what you are asking here is whether the Buskers pay income tax, with the inference being that they do not. This is a specious argument, and one that cannot be verified in either direction. One could equally argue that not all businesses or employees in York pay taxes at the rate they should. So what?! This is in the same vein as your later suggestions that Buskers may be claiming benefits over and above their income. The same can be said of anyone in York! I can happily concede that it is wrong to not pay taxes due or to claim benefits not offset by income, but it is not something that is limited to Buskers. Perhaps we should get rid of all waiters and waitresses in York, as they may not be declaring any tips they make!! :-)

"why should Busking activities be supported over the interests of bona fide local business that have invested vast sums in York and do all of the above?"

Well, I hope that for readers that have hung in this long in my protracted reply, you will appreciate that my response will again come back to that matter of ambience and entertainment. Would we - my wife and I - as tourist come back repeatedly to York each trip to the UK if it was just another shopping town with some historic interest value? Probably not. There are a lot of similar locations in the UK that we have not yet visited. Will we come back to York because of the ambience and street entertainment? Yes.

Never underestimate the importance of ambience and the "changing attraction"...

I hope this adds another viewpoint of value for consideration.

m dee wrote:

peterstreet wrote:
there is a lot of propaganda and nonsense being talked about buskers generally, so a question. How much business rates does a busker pay for earning very good money in prime retail locations? Another question? how many York residents do the Buskers employ? and another question. How many of the buskers actually live in the York area and pay council tax to support our amenities? and yet another question how many of the Buskers pay tax and ni conts on their very good earnings, Lasy question why should Busking activities be supported over the interests of bona fide local business that have invested vast sums in York and do all of the above? PLEASE LETS HAVE A LITTLE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ISSUE

Thing is the street entertainers are registered with the local council therefore bona fide in the eyes of the law ,the reasons they should be supported as in the picture they are enjoyed by hundreds of visitors and residents.
The very spot where you see the large crowd watching the entertainer would be lost by residents/visitors as a open area for the sake of a private business taking it over for extra space.
As for investing vast sums in York they have invested in a business venture and judging by their ticket prices will soon recoup this ,and despite only been open a short time are trying to expand in a very clever way taking over a open space that is very much enjoyed by many and as been for many years

Very good points M Dee and again I say that I am not commenting on Kings Square specifically, we have Councillors who will decide the issue and my guess is that they will not allow the chocolate place outside seating. The point I am making is that I believe that this whole issue as been insidiously blown up by the Kings Square buskers themselves in order to pressure the councillors into making the decision they want. I am not against busking. Where did I say I was? In fact as an ex professional musician I spent years busking in a number of cities when work was short. I know busking backwards and also know what goes on! I have also run a business in York city centre for years and still do! So I can see both sides, but it will be a sad day when itinerant buskers decide city centre policy because I can say from vast experience that some of them can be a **** nuisance and affect a shops trade severely. Also some posters seem to believe that visitors come to York attracted by the Buskers, sorry folks it’s the other way round! The buskers come because of the tourists! Proof of this is between Christmas and Easter when tourists are thin on the ground, Where are the Buskers then? Nowhere to be seen!!! Whereas bona fide permanent business are still employing staff and paying taxes. As for Expat I respect your views but beg to differ on most of them. I believe that York’s ambience comes from its Cathedral, its beautiful buildings and its remarkable history; these things were here long before busking and hopefully will be here for more centauries to come

Since there is only one busker i the square at any time, if the council let the choc shop have the pavement - which they surely will - why not let the buskers use the vacant site of the Splash Palace? It's far more visible, less pigeons and more punters passing.

York Chocolate Story probably would like to keep the buskers & large crowds, as long as all members of said crowd, had purchased a drink from their establishment in order to make use of their chairs.

Common sense from Pinza and Highly amused; but another small point. Many pro busking posts have called for claiming public space back from the relatively recently allowed pavement cafes. As many tourists and locals enjoy these facilities as enjoy buskers, probably more. If this were not true they would be out of business by now as it costs a lot more for these pavement areas than the buskers pay which is nothing, except for a cheap yearly license. But there are many traders occupying pavement sites for which they pay high rent to the council. Take Kings Square for example. There are two permanent stalls selling iced drinks and ice cream which convert to hot stuff during the colder months. One stall selling fancy candles, in direct competition to a permanent shop just round the corner on Church Street, one artist selling portraits and two very good piano players, both York citizens, traceable and therefore on the level. Also other operations operate time to time. They all take up considerable space! If you are calling for the removal of the pavement cafes then it would be hypocritical not to insist on the of the removal these operations and others in the city centre, not to mention the council leaving itself open t legal challenge on grounds of discrimination!

Big mouth.

Pedro wrote:
Big mouth.

Lah luh Lah laaaah

I'm generally in support of the buskers but I would like the buskers to explain why the old splash palace area couldn't be used. Is it just preference of site or is there other reason?

In addition to the busking issue, the area proposed for the tables and chairs is a main thorough-fare for pedestrians coming out of the Shambles and Market. Chairs and tables would cause regular inconvenience to pedestrians trying to pass through the area. Has this been considered? I have been walking through this area for the last two years, and not sure where this £2 million pounds has been spent, but not on Kings Square. The pavements haven't even been cleaned! If they are referring to the amount they invested in their business, I don't think that is relevant to this discussion. They haven't made any visible improvements to the square itself, so stop throwing that number into the debate.

mmarshal wrote:
I'm generally in support of the buskers but I would like the buskers to explain why the old splash palace area couldn't be used. Is it just preference of site or is there other reason?

They do use it.

If the Chocolate Story thing gets the approval to have seating in kings Sq to sell drinks and food dose that mean that the other two coffee shops/Bistro's on the Square will have the right to do the same thing? Once the precedent has been set there is almost NO way CYC can say no to other applications! now there are 3 sets of seating on a very small square.

Hang on a minute why stop there! why not let the Bakers and the Cookie shop on the Square have seating as they sell Tea, coffee, soup and food.... Now there is 5 sets of seating!

Then give it a couple of years when the weather is wet and cold why not ask CYC to part cover it? then you can sell it to them as a great idea because it can be used as a partly heated under cover natural arena for Musicians and Busker's...

Sorry I just remembered that there is a Nero's there as well so that will make it Three other Coffee shops / Bistro's

So that will make it 6 sets of seating needed on the smallest square in the city center!

Agree on this:"We should resist the privatization of public space. Buskers are part of a vibrant street culture and contribute a lot to the city's charm for locals and tourists alike.”

lokifromyork flags up the risks- part of the attraction of buskers is that they are on the fringe, depend on generosity of the public if they provide a good show providing 'free' entertainment. Im sure many professional well known performers started out busking and doing acts in local pubs and clubs. The chocolate factory are not going to provide seats then let people sit there without buying from them, and will want a good turnover once you have consumed your purchase. And how long will it be before the audience has to be 'policed' to ensure they stand clear of the table area and keep the walkways across frontages clear?

Agree with StainedGlassDiva that's it's a rather baffling statement about the investment in King's Square. The investment was in a private business and there's an entrance fee into the building they invested in. They seem to be suggesting some kind of benevolent / charitable intent? If they've invested money in the actual square outside the building, can someone point out where?

As well as the impact on street performers, the fact that the cafe users carrying their drinks have to cross a busy thoroughfare should be enough of a reason for this plan to be rejected.

There's a brilliant bit of time-lapse film on YouTube, which isn't connected with the campaign but just happens to show the pedestrian 'flow' through the square during and after one of the street performer shows:
http://youtu.be/FiYH
iRSI9f8

Busy, isn't it. Especially across the front of the King's Court buildings, where their cafe users would be crossing to the tables.

peterstreet wrote:

m dee wrote:

peterstreet wrote:
there is a lot of propaganda and nonsense being talked about buskers generally, so a question. How much business rates does a busker pay for earning very good money in prime retail locations? Another question? how many York residents do the Buskers employ? and another question. How many of the buskers actually live in the York area and pay council tax to support our amenities? and yet another question how many of the Buskers pay tax and ni conts on their very good earnings, Lasy question why should Busking activities be supported over the interests of bona fide local business that have invested vast sums in York and do all of the above? PLEASE LETS HAVE A LITTLE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ISSUE

Thing is the street entertainers are registered with the local council therefore bona fide in the eyes of the law ,the reasons they should be supported as in the picture they are enjoyed by hundreds of visitors and residents.
The very spot where you see the large crowd watching the entertainer would be lost by residents/visitors as a open area for the sake of a private business taking it over for extra space.
As for investing vast sums in York they have invested in a business venture and judging by their ticket prices will soon recoup this ,and despite only been open a short time are trying to expand in a very clever way taking over a open space that is very much enjoyed by many and as been for many years

Very good points M Dee and again I say that I am not commenting on Kings Square specifically, we have Councillors who will decide the issue and my guess is that they will not allow the chocolate place outside seating. The point I am making is that I believe that this whole issue as been insidiously blown up by the Kings Square buskers themselves in order to pressure the councillors into making the decision they want. I am not against busking. Where did I say I was? In fact as an ex professional musician I spent years busking in a number of cities when work was short. I know busking backwards and also know what goes on! I have also run a business in York city centre for years and still do! So I can see both sides, but it will be a sad day when itinerant buskers decide city centre policy because I can say from vast experience that some of them can be a **** nuisance and affect a shops trade severely. Also some posters seem to believe that visitors come to York attracted by the Buskers, sorry folks it’s the other way round! The buskers come because of the tourists! Proof of this is between Christmas and Easter when tourists are thin on the ground, Where are the Buskers then? Nowhere to be seen!!! Whereas bona fide permanent business are still employing staff and paying taxes. As for Expat I respect your views but beg to differ on most of them. I believe that York’s ambience comes from its Cathedral, its beautiful buildings and its remarkable history; these things were here long before busking and hopefully will be here for more centauries to come

Thing is the street entertainers are registered with the local council and the point of that is so that DWP, HMRC and others can cross check if they are claiming benefits elsewhere

That is one of the reasons they have to register with the council to busk in York

This is why some buskers have been caught

Before the register it was easy for buskers to claim benefits and such elsewhere as no one knew were they came from or there name

I would sooner have to make my way through crowds than tables and people carrying hot drinks

So peterstreet how much did you cheat the benefits out of when you spent years busking in a number of cities when work was short ?

Nuke the buskers.

Agree completely with the people who've said this is about the privatisation of public space.

It's a trend right across the country, with all sorts of established and traditional activities being marginalised and criminalised so business can rake in the profits.

In his/her implication that buskers are probably tax-dodgers and/or benefit scroungers, peterstreet is clearly a keen supporter of that process, but it's one that many people are determined to resist.

Zetkin wrote:
Agree completely with the people who've said this is about the privatisation of public space.

It's a trend right across the country, with all sorts of established and traditional activities being marginalised and criminalised so business can rake in the profits.

In his/her implication that buskers are probably tax-dodgers and/or benefit scroungers, peterstreet is clearly a keen supporter of that process, but it's one that many people are determined to resist.

He only knows because he as done busking

York1900 wrote:

peterstreet wrote:

m dee wrote:

peterstreet wrote:
there is a lot of propaganda and nonsense being talked about buskers generally, so a question. How much business rates does a busker pay for earning very good money in prime retail locations? Another question? how many York residents do the Buskers employ? and another question. How many of the buskers actually live in the York area and pay council tax to support our amenities? and yet another question how many of the Buskers pay tax and ni conts on their very good earnings, Lasy question why should Busking activities be supported over the interests of bona fide local business that have invested vast sums in York and do all of the above? PLEASE LETS HAVE A LITTLE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ISSUE

Thing is the street entertainers are registered with the local council therefore bona fide in the eyes of the law ,the reasons they should be supported as in the picture they are enjoyed by hundreds of visitors and residents.
The very spot where you see the large crowd watching the entertainer would be lost by residents/visitors as a open area for the sake of a private business taking it over for extra space.
As for investing vast sums in York they have invested in a business venture and judging by their ticket prices will soon recoup this ,and despite only been open a short time are trying to expand in a very clever way taking over a open space that is very much enjoyed by many and as been for many years

Very good points M Dee and again I say that I am not commenting on Kings Square specifically, we have Councillors who will decide the issue and my guess is that they will not allow the chocolate place outside seating. The point I am making is that I believe that this whole issue as been insidiously blown up by the Kings Square buskers themselves in order to pressure the councillors into making the decision they want. I am not against busking. Where did I say I was? In fact as an ex professional musician I spent years busking in a number of cities when work was short. I know busking backwards and also know what goes on! I have also run a business in York city centre for years and still do! So I can see both sides, but it will be a sad day when itinerant buskers decide city centre policy because I can say from vast experience that some of them can be a **** nuisance and affect a shops trade severely. Also some posters seem to believe that visitors come to York attracted by the Buskers, sorry folks it’s the other way round! The buskers come because of the tourists! Proof of this is between Christmas and Easter when tourists are thin on the ground, Where are the Buskers then? Nowhere to be seen!!! Whereas bona fide permanent business are still employing staff and paying taxes. As for Expat I respect your views but beg to differ on most of them. I believe that York’s ambience comes from its Cathedral, its beautiful buildings and its remarkable history; these things were here long before busking and hopefully will be here for more centauries to come

Thing is the street entertainers are registered with the local council and the point of that is so that DWP, HMRC and others can cross check if they are claiming benefits elsewhere

That is one of the reasons they have to register with the council to busk in York

This is why some buskers have been caught

Before the register it was easy for buskers to claim benefits and such elsewhere as no one knew were they came from or there name

I would sooner have to make my way through crowds than tables and people carrying hot drinks

So peterstreet how much did you cheat the benefits out of when you spent years busking in a number of cities when work was short ?

York 1900, you must be a bit simple! Being registered as a busker is not proof of income or the amount of earnings also have you never heard of the data protection act? In addition, I have not claimed a benefit in my life, Zetkin, what process am I a clear supporter of? Talk sense please! I am not against Busking. I am for the regulation of Buskers as exists in York because without it there would be anarchy. I am not lobbying for the chocolate factory application to be granted, I have already stated that we have councillors who will take that decision and I think they will refuse the application. I am not even talking specifically about Kings Square. I am against what I believe is an insidious campaign by certain Kings Square buskers, who operate in breach of the city centre rules, to unfairly attempt to influence or intimidate the Council to allow Buskers to dictate city centre policy.

data protection act do,s not cover government fraud depatmens as your name is flag up every time you apply for any thing from a government department that relates to employment and benefits
data protection act only protects you from none government departments and businesses

The data protection act is not as tight as people think when it comes to governent deparments passing information between themselves

This is about one business wanting to do what suits their interests, at the expense of others. And as others have mentioned above, they're wanting to claim what is our public space.

A part of it already seems to be occupied most evenings by a vehicle parked up outside the museum. Can we all park in the square now or do the rest of us have to park on the road as usual? Anyone know more?

city_view wrote:
This is about one business wanting to do what suits their interests, at the expense of others. And as others have mentioned above, they're wanting to claim what is our public space.

A part of it already seems to be occupied most evenings by a vehicle parked up outside the museum. Can we all park in the square now or do the rest of us have to park on the road as usual? Anyone know more?

yes and going the wrong way from Kings Square to church street as well

peterstreet wrote:

York1900 wrote:

peterstreet wrote:

m dee wrote:

peterstreet wrote:
there is a lot of propaganda and nonsense being talked about buskers generally, so a question. How much business rates does a busker pay for earning very good money in prime retail locations? Another question? how many York residents do the Buskers employ? and another question. How many of the buskers actually live in the York area and pay council tax to support our amenities? and yet another question how many of the Buskers pay tax and ni conts on their very good earnings, Lasy question why should Busking activities be supported over the interests of bona fide local business that have invested vast sums in York and do all of the above? PLEASE LETS HAVE A LITTLE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ISSUE

Thing is the street entertainers are registered with the local council therefore bona fide in the eyes of the law ,the reasons they should be supported as in the picture they are enjoyed by hundreds of visitors and residents.
The very spot where you see the large crowd watching the entertainer would be lost by residents/visitors as a open area for the sake of a private business taking it over for extra space.
As for investing vast sums in York they have invested in a business venture and judging by their ticket prices will soon recoup this ,and despite only been open a short time are trying to expand in a very clever way taking over a open space that is very much enjoyed by many and as been for many years

Very good points M Dee and again I say that I am not commenting on Kings Square specifically, we have Councillors who will decide the issue and my guess is that they will not allow the chocolate place outside seating. The point I am making is that I believe that this whole issue as been insidiously blown up by the Kings Square buskers themselves in order to pressure the councillors into making the decision they want. I am not against busking. Where did I say I was? In fact as an ex professional musician I spent years busking in a number of cities when work was short. I know busking backwards and also know what goes on! I have also run a business in York city centre for years and still do! So I can see both sides, but it will be a sad day when itinerant buskers decide city centre policy because I can say from vast experience that some of them can be a **** nuisance and affect a shops trade severely. Also some posters seem to believe that visitors come to York attracted by the Buskers, sorry folks it’s the other way round! The buskers come because of the tourists! Proof of this is between Christmas and Easter when tourists are thin on the ground, Where are the Buskers then? Nowhere to be seen!!! Whereas bona fide permanent business are still employing staff and paying taxes. As for Expat I respect your views but beg to differ on most of them. I believe that York’s ambience comes from its Cathedral, its beautiful buildings and its remarkable history; these things were here long before busking and hopefully will be here for more centauries to come

Thing is the street entertainers are registered with the local council and the point of that is so that DWP, HMRC and others can cross check if they are claiming benefits elsewhere

That is one of the reasons they have to register with the council to busk in York

This is why some buskers have been caught

Before the register it was easy for buskers to claim benefits and such elsewhere as no one knew were they came from or there name

I would sooner have to make my way through crowds than tables and people carrying hot drinks

So peterstreet how much did you cheat the benefits out of when you spent years busking in a number of cities when work was short ?

York 1900, you must be a bit simple! Being registered as a busker is not proof of income or the amount of earnings also have you never heard of the data protection act? In addition, I have not claimed a benefit in my life, Zetkin, what process am I a clear supporter of? Talk sense please! I am not against Busking. I am for the regulation of Buskers as exists in York because without it there would be anarchy. I am not lobbying for the chocolate factory application to be granted, I have already stated that we have councillors who will take that decision and I think they will refuse the application. I am not even talking specifically about Kings Square. I am against what I believe is an insidious campaign by certain Kings Square buskers, who operate in breach of the city centre rules, to unfairly attempt to influence or intimidate the Council to allow Buskers to dictate city centre policy.

peterstreet please read this it might enlighten you to the data protection act

http://www.ico.gov.u
k/Global/faqs/data_p
rotection_for_organi
sations.aspx

If the police approach us for information under what circumstances should we provide it?

There is an exemption under the Data Protection Act that can be applied if the police need some information to prevent or detect crime or catch or prosecute a suspect.

However there are limits on the information you can release. If you are satisfied that the information is going to be used for this purpose and that if you did not release the information it would be likely to prejudice (that is, significantly harm) any attempt by the police to prevent a crime or catch a suspect then you can disclose this information.

This is an important subject, for more information, read our good practice note on Releasing information to prevent or detect crime

v1.0
08.08.06
Data Protection Good Practice Note
Releasing information to prevent or
detect crime
This good practice note explains what you need to consider when you are
asked to release personal information because it is needed to prevent or
detect a crime, or catch and prosecute a suspect. It is intended as a guide for organisations that do not normally receive requests of this kind.
Does the Data Protection Act 1998 stop me from releasing this personal
information?

No. There is an exemption in the Data Protection Act 1998 (the Act) that allows you to give out personal information for these purposes

(Section 29 –Crime and Taxation), but there are limits on what you can release.
Who might ask me to release personal information under this
exemption?
The police are most likely to ask you to release personal information under
this exemption. However, you may get requests from other organisations that can rely upon this exemption because they have a crime prevention or law enforcement function, for example, the Department for Work and Pensions – Benefit Fraud Section. For the sake of clarity, in this note we will continue to refer to releasing information to the police.

What personal information can I release under this exemption?

The exemption does not cover the disclosure of all personal information, in allcircumstances. It only allows you to release personal information for the stated purposes and only if not releasing it would be likely to prejudice (that is,significantly harm) any attempt by police to prevent crime or catch a suspect.

What questions do I need to ask?
For every request for personal information you receive (and about each separate individual), you need to ask yourself the following questions.

• Am I sure the person is who they say they are? (For this reason
particular care should be taken if the request is made over the
telephone.)

• Is the person asking for this information doing so to prevent or detect a crime or catch or prosecute an offender?

• If I do not release the personal information, will this significantly harm
any attempt by the police to prevent crime or catch a suspect? (The
risk must be that the investigation may very well be impeded.)

• If I do decide to release personal information to the police, what is the
minimum I should release for them to be able to do their job?
v1.0
08.08.06

• What else (if anything) do I need to know to be sure that the exemption
applies?

There are times when you may release personal information relating to more than one person who the police do not name, but who fit a particular description.

For example: the police may not have the name of the particular suspect, but they believe he is an employee of your organisation and have a particular description (for
example, white male, between 20 and 30 years old with brown hair). In this situation, you may release the
personal information of all the employees who match that particular description.

However, you would need to be satisfied that the police have narrowed the description of the suspect as much as they reasonably can.

Do I have to release the personal information requested?
We understand that most people will want to help the police to prevent crime or catch a suspect, but it is up to you to decide to release personal informationunder this exemption. Even if you decide that the exemption applies, you still
do not have to release the personal information.

If you have genuine concerns about releasing the personal information (for example, because you think you have other legal obligations such as the information being confidential), then you can ask the police to come back with a court order requiring the release of the personal information. If the court decides you should release the information, you will not break the Act by obeying the order.For example: Why is it necessary for us to provide thispersonal information (can you not get this personal
information from another source)?
Or
How will this personal information assist your attempts
to prevent crime or catch a suspect?
v1.0
08.08.06

Recommended good practice

• Select a person or group of people within your organisation to make the decision whether or not to release personal information underthe exemption.

• Ask for the request to be made in writing and signed by someone of
sufficient authority.

• Make a record of each decision you make and the reasons why you
came to that particular decision.

More information
If you need any more information about this or any other aspect of data
protection, please contact us.
Phone: 01625 545745
E-mail: please use the online enquiry form on our website
Website: www.ico.gov.uk

So this money maker moves into the kings sq area, and then starts making complaints, well if he wants a war of complaints, I'm sure the buskers have some friends...

oh another scenario...

I walk through that area, so I use it etc, was I consulted by any form of planning app if i objected to a chair in my path, I dont think so...

So maybe when i next walk through, I should just pick up that chair and move it, maybe move it quite a way so it bothers me no more...

i'd like to say kick it out the way but that would no doubt be criminal damage..

Ii quiet liked the idea of this place opening, but to start on the street performers I love to stop and watch as i go through, oh no, there do more good for the city than your poxy chocolate display.

The chocolate museum may regret not having the buskers, the square will after all be just a square with no other particular reason to visit. Currently it attracts a crowd some of whom may visit the museum as a bonus, history and chocolate are not top of the list of everyone's visiting agenda.
On the other hand if quality busking acts moved to Parliament Street instead that would keep out the ones who stay all day and repeat the same five songs over and over again, badly to begin with and worsening over time! Lots of buskers ignore the message to be considerate or move pitch regularly. Could a scheme not exist whereby there are designated pitches and each act must move on after an hour or two?