Hugh Bayley visits Derwenthorpe development (From York Press)

Another expenses claim ?

nowthen wrote:
Another expenses claim ?

You beat me to it.

hope he took his shoes off before he went round the showhouse as we had to do!!

That's Hugh Bayley off Mark Warter's christmas card list.

The mix of rented homes, part-ownership and homes for sale at varying prices will create a mixed income community

And is the reason why I wouldn't touch one with a disinfected barge pole.

Despite all the upmarket bull, the word from insiders is that they are struggling to sell the high priced private homes.

Hardly surprising. £400k to live here!
In one of these! Next door to those folks!

And do you think you would be able to easily re-sell and move on if you didn't like it! Not a chance. That is why they are offering a part exchange scheme. Sheer desperation to shift them.

Like 'sperare' says, sales of the private homes are bombing. A while ago, they (JRHT & DWH) said 16 homes had been sold. They omitted to qualify if any of these were shared-ownership, which are affordable (social) not private. Even if they are just the private homes, the sales rate is around half the average that Barratt/DWH achieve nationally, which is 0.52 reservations, per week, per site.

The site is living up to it's nickname ' DISASTERTHORPE !

Bayley's statement was as usual, useless !

He states the obvious - that York is short of affordable homes.
He omits to mention, that York has a housing shortage created by the council's unworkable affordable housing policy. He also does not make any suggestions as to how the problem could be overcome.

What does Bayley do for York exactly ? Getting his photo in the Press regularly like the equally useless, self-promoting, attention-seeking, council leader James Alexander, doesn't impress or fool any of us. They are both a waste of space, and should be sent packing back to their birthplace (London) at the next elections.

The fact it's next door to Tang Hall won't be helping

Visited the site today, to check out it's 'success' ?

It apears that less than half the 64 dwellings in the first phase, are actually completed. Many of these have 'SOLD' signs on them but, quite a lot are not occupied. Those that are occupied may be in the main the affordable units.

Plots under construction are fenced off, but those that could be seen, which haven't reached roof stage, have sales status signage on them. Alternate dwellings have 'SOLD' and 'FOR SALE' signs on them. What does this suggest ? To me, it looks like many properties that have a 'SOLD' sign are 'ghosted' - not actually sold. The site has been under construction for around 15 months, and the level of progress may suggest that they have intentionally slowed the build for sales to catch up.

If the site was selling well, you would expect that JRHT and DWH would be shouting it from the roof tops. The fact that they are keeping quiet about sales, again suggests that things are going badly.

When will the truth come out ?

My information is that the plots have to be fenced off because of the high rates of looting taking place every night.

Wonder if that will cease when the site is completed ?.

The golden rule of managing cashflow in housebuilding is to control 'WIP' in line with forward sales, and not to have high levels of unsold stock.

Someone will soon be carrying out a mystery shopper exercise at Derwenthorpe, and we shall soon know what the true state of affairs is on this development.

Be prepared for a soon to be published exposé, - the shocking truth about the failure of Derwenthorpe !

Another point to bear in mind.

The slower the rate of sales, the longer the development takes, and this results in higher costs of overheads and financing/interest. All this impacts on the bottom line, and such are the risks that the private sector has to juggle, along with all the other costly regulatory burdens imposed on them by councils.

Derwenthorpe is at an advantage though. It is by a non-profit making organisation, uses subsidised land sold on the cheap by the council, uses government (HCA) money/grants for financing. One rule for the friends of left wing politicians, and another, more discriminatory, punitive rule for the private sector.

IT STINKS !

Excellent posts. The misery quotient is near its all-time high. Keep this up. After all, whingeing is soon to be an Olympic event.

sperare e coraggio wrote:
Despite all the upmarket bull, the word from insiders is that they are struggling to sell the high priced private homes.

Hardly surprising. £400k to live here!
In one of these! Next door to those folks!

And do you think you would be able to easily re-sell and move on if you didn't like it! Not a chance. That is why they are offering a part exchange scheme. Sheer desperation to shift them.

You sound like Margot from The Good Life. Next door to these folks ! Euch ! How simply ghaarstleagh.

Here is another prediction - it is doubtful that David Wilson Homes(owned by Barratt) will build the next phase.

They only took the work on because they had no private sites on in York, and I expect they have caught a cold on the price, and will be losing money. This will be a problem for JRHT, as other contractors will be wary and up their prices because of the risks involved. It's all looking bad for Derwenthorpe........ ?!?!

Just to take an interesting side look at the situation of say proposing to purchase a £400.000 property next to a pile of social housing ?

Having your best interests at heart .
What would your solicitor advise ?

Clearly he would point out the pitfalls of such a proposal and most likely advise extreme caution.

The fact that you would probably never be able to sell it on without reducing the price would at the forefront and then the problems which could occur actualy living there.

Wonder if any solicitors out there would care to comment.

If they were going well in terms of private sales there would be lots of good publicity.The private sales are obviously not going well.
Will this site be the end of the labour parties social engineering experiment which has been so detrimental to house building in York with devastating consequences for those employed locally in construction?

meme wrote:
If they were going well in terms of private sales there would be lots of good publicity.The private sales are obviously not going well.
Will this site be the end of the labour parties social engineering experiment which has been so detrimental to house building in York with devastating consequences for those employed locally in construction?

Loving all the negative comments in here :)

Meme, you say there would be positive press if it was going well: do you mean press such as this? http://www.whathouse
.co.uk/news/new-home
s-in-north-yorkshire
-dwh-derwenthorpe-98
2

Papers rarely bother to print good news as it isn't that exciting.

Over 2/3rds of the homes (even the unbuilt ones) are now sold and prices have gone up substantially since the launch: up to £30k more than they launched at already. Hardly the sign that they are desperate to sell them.

The sales home is always busy.

DWH are bidding actively for the next phase and are very keen to get it.

As for the comments about social housing, well pretty much all new builds have to have that aspect so the only difference with Derwenthorpe is that it is well-integrated and well-thought out rather than bunched up in a corner that always causes trouble.

All building sites need to be fenced off at night - that is just common sense.

But keep believing why you want to believe!

Wibbler123 wrote:

meme wrote: If they were going well in terms of private sales there would be lots of good publicity.The private sales are obviously not going well. Will this site be the end of the labour parties social engineering experiment which has been so detrimental to house building in York with devastating consequences for those employed locally in construction?

Loving all the negative comments in here :) Meme, you say there would be positive press if it was going well: do you mean press such as this? http://www.whathouse .co.uk/news/new-home s-in-north-yorkshire -dwh-derwenthorpe-98 2 Papers rarely bother to print good news as it isn't that exciting. Over 2/3rds of the homes (even the unbuilt ones) are now sold and prices have gone up substantially since the launch: up to £30k more than they launched at already. Hardly the sign that they are desperate to sell them. The sales home is always busy. DWH are bidding actively for the next phase and are very keen to get it. As for the comments about social housing, well pretty much all new builds have to have that aspect so the only difference with Derwenthorpe is that it is well-integrated and well-thought out rather than bunched up in a corner that always causes trouble. All building sites need to be fenced off at night - that is just common sense. But keep believing why you want to believe!

Yes, the press ran a small story at the beginning of July saying that 2/3rds of Phase 1 had been sold. 2/3rds x 64 = 42 dwellings.

I tried to count up the plots that have either sold signs or are occupied, and of those that were visible. From what I could see, there were 28 and 13 of these were social units (8 for rent and 3 for shared ownership). This means of the units that I couldn't see, there should be a further 16 units sold ? There were 20 units that I could either not see or had no signage. For 16 out of these 20 to be sold is a big ask.

If 'Wibbler123' is so well informed, could he perhaps list the polt numbers that are sold, and I will check these against my spreadsheet.

Further questions for 'Wibbler123':-

1. How long will it take for the first phase to be completed ?
2. How long in total has phase 1 taken to build ?
2. When will phase 2 start ?

Oops, sorry. My mistake - 9 for rent and 4 shared ownership sold/occupied = 13.

Another way of calculating the 2/3rds is to discount the rented units. Total 64 less rented 15 = 49 units for sale x 2/3rds = 33.

Of the ones that I referred to above, as sold/occupied, totalling 28, there were 9 rented, leaving 19 units. So there are another 14 out of the 20 that I could not reconcile.

Now waitng for the DWH/JRHT spokesperson, Wibbler123 to come back with the answers..........

I suspect the figures printed by press include the affordable units
Perhaps it could be answered as to how large a percentage of the private homes for sale have sold?
I want it to work but doubt it will as buyers just wont part with money as building societies / banks wont give mortgage with such a high percentage of affordable and there are lots of places where you can buy without any

Of the 20 that I could not see, 6 of these are listed FOR SALE on the DWH Derwenthorpe website. That means the other 14 are all sold, which is highly doubtful. Something doesn't square here. I very much suspect that the 2/3rds is an exaggeration, used for purposes of hype. I further suspect that DWH/JRHT don't expect anyone to try and check, and that as time goes by more sales will come and make it impossible to challenge.

We will have to see if anyone is determined enough to expose any porky pies, won't we ?

Still waiting for Wibbler123 to support his defence with specific details/plot no's ........

so if they are selling so well, why the need for a man to come round properties in Osbaldwick door to door to sell them?

I assure you, I'm not anything to do with DWH / JRHT. I live here and can report that those of us who have moved in are very happy with our houses indeed!

Just wanted to provide an alternative viewpoint; am not going to get into statistical number bashing battle with those who appear to have nothing better to do ;)

Wibbler123 wrote:
I assure you, I'm not anything to do with DWH / JRHT. I live here and can report that those of us who have moved in are very happy with our houses indeed! Just wanted to provide an alternative viewpoint; am not going to get into statistical number bashing battle with those who appear to have nothing better to do ;)

I'm pleased that you are happy with your house.

Your viewpoint is one thing, but, unless you are able to substantiate the sales numbers, your testimonial, as far as speaking up for the accuracy of the claim that 2/3rds are sold, is worthless.

Do not worry, the validity of the sales figures will be taken up with DWH directly.

By the way, you may be interested to learn, that it is not unusual for housebuilders to use a bit of marketing trickery, where they use 'ghost' sales. Ask the negotiators on site, and see how well they disguise any sign of guilt ? That's if you have nothing better to do ? !!!!

Sillybillies wrote:

The mix of rented homes, part-ownership and homes for sale at varying prices will create a mixed income community

And is the reason why I wouldn't touch one with a disinfected barge pole.

The sold houses will be let out to students and the remaining houses to families on benefits and any remaing filled to the brim with polish immigrants

Wonder if anyone has noticed that the affordable units are not actually evenly distributed throughout the site ?

From looking at the site plan, you can see that there are four, shall we call them 'zones'. Each zone is a collection of dwellings which are in clusters separated by roads/vehicular accessways.

Plots 1 - 25 has 11 affordable (44%)
Plots 26 -40, plus 48 & 49 has 8 AH (47%)
Plots 41 - 47 has 2 AH (29%)
Plots 50 - 64 has 4 AH (27%)

Guess which areas have the least sales ?

From the visible sales signage and occupied properties, the following appear to be sold/occupied:

Plots 1 - 25 : 6
Plots 26 - 40, 48 & 49 : 6
Plots 41 - 47 : 6
Plots 50 - 64 : 10

Total : 28 of which 13 are AH (9 rented and 4 shared ownership) and 15 private.

Where do DWH/JRHT get 2/3rds from ?

It looks like the areas with the higher concentrations of AH have significantly less sales.

No waiting for someone to disprove my findings, with hard facts please......

Oops, sorry, typo above - meant to be 'Now waiting.....'

I visited at the weekend and thought it was a lovely site albeit expensive properties, however they have been rather short sighted when it comes to car parking for the properties .... 1 space each (small in front of a small garage) and no road parking outside your own house as the road is only a single track .. they stated you could park in the visitors bays if you wanted, but who wants to pay £415k for a 4 bedroom house (example only) where 2nd car owners or guests have to leave their cars some distance away from their properties ?? and compete withthe rest of the estate for a space ?

Mr Crabtree wrote:

Wibbler123 wrote:

meme wrote: If they were going well in terms of private sales there would be lots of good publicity.The private sales are obviously not going well. Will this site be the end of the labour parties social engineering experiment which has been so detrimental to house building in York with devastating consequences for those employed locally in construction?

Loving all the negative comments in here :) Meme, you say there would be positive press if it was going well: do you mean press such as this? http://www.whathouse .co.uk/news/new-home s-in-north-yorkshire -dwh-derwenthorpe-98 2 Papers rarely bother to print good news as it isn't that exciting. Over 2/3rds of the homes (even the unbuilt ones) are now sold and prices have gone up substantially since the launch: up to £30k more than they launched at already. Hardly the sign that they are desperate to sell them. The sales home is always busy. DWH are bidding actively for the next phase and are very keen to get it. As for the comments about social housing, well pretty much all new builds have to have that aspect so the only difference with Derwenthorpe is that it is well-integrated and well-thought out rather than bunched up in a corner that always causes trouble. All building sites need to be fenced off at night - that is just common sense. But keep believing why you want to believe!

Yes, the press ran a small story at the beginning of July saying that 2/3rds of Phase 1 had been sold. 2/3rds x 64 = 42 dwellings.

I tried to count up the plots that have either sold signs or are occupied, and of those that were visible. From what I could see, there were 28 and 13 of these were social units (8 for rent and 3 for shared ownership). This means of the units that I couldn't see, there should be a further 16 units sold ? There were 20 units that I could either not see or had no signage. For 16 out of these 20 to be sold is a big ask.

If 'Wibbler123' is so well informed, could he perhaps list the polt numbers that are sold, and I will check these against my spreadsheet.

Further questions for 'Wibbler123':-

1. How long will it take for the first phase to be completed ?
2. How long in total has phase 1 taken to build ?
2. When will phase 2 start ?

You actually have a spreadsheet?

I think thats wonderful.

The Great Buda wrote:

Mr Crabtree wrote:

Wibbler123 wrote:

meme wrote: If they were going well in terms of private sales there would be lots of good publicity.The private sales are obviously not going well. Will this site be the end of the labour parties social engineering experiment which has been so detrimental to house building in York with devastating consequences for those employed locally in construction?

Loving all the negative comments in here :) Meme, you say there would be positive press if it was going well: do you mean press such as this? http://www.whathouse .co.uk/news/new-home s-in-north-yorkshire -dwh-derwenthorpe-98 2 Papers rarely bother to print good news as it isn't that exciting. Over 2/3rds of the homes (even the unbuilt ones) are now sold and prices have gone up substantially since the launch: up to £30k more than they launched at already. Hardly the sign that they are desperate to sell them. The sales home is always busy. DWH are bidding actively for the next phase and are very keen to get it. As for the comments about social housing, well pretty much all new builds have to have that aspect so the only difference with Derwenthorpe is that it is well-integrated and well-thought out rather than bunched up in a corner that always causes trouble. All building sites need to be fenced off at night - that is just common sense. But keep believing why you want to believe!

Yes, the press ran a small story at the beginning of July saying that 2/3rds of Phase 1 had been sold. 2/3rds x 64 = 42 dwellings. I tried to count up the plots that have either sold signs or are occupied, and of those that were visible. From what I could see, there were 28 and 13 of these were social units (8 for rent and 3 for shared ownership). This means of the units that I couldn't see, there should be a further 16 units sold ? There were 20 units that I could either not see or had no signage. For 16 out of these 20 to be sold is a big ask. If 'Wibbler123' is so well informed, could he perhaps list the polt numbers that are sold, and I will check these against my spreadsheet. Further questions for 'Wibbler123':- 1. How long will it take for the first phase to be completed ? 2. How long in total has phase 1 taken to build ? 2. When will phase 2 start ?

You actually have a spreadsheet? I think thats wonderful.

I don't think that JRHT, DWH and CYC will agree with you on that. The spreadsheet may provide evidence that debunks the myths, that this development is a sales success, and that the high affordable housing content, which is pepper-potted around the site, is not affecting sales. I'm still waiting for someone from one of these bodies to provide evidence to the contrary.........

One point that 'wibbler123' made about prices having been increased by as much as £30,000 per dwelling, is in fact true. This one puzzles me, because this represents in percentage terms, increases of between 4% - 12%, when house prices in York have increased in the year to March 2012 by 4.7%. A 12% increase is treble the average local increase. This could of course be artificial, as the advertised price may be inflated, and actual agreed prices are discounted through negotiation. Another reason why the advertised prices may have been hiked is opportunistic. If the land and build is financed by JRHT/HCA, with DWH building under contract and being paid on monthly valuation, and sharing any profit on the sale of the private dwellings, then they may be trying to enhance their margins by hiking the prices, as they have no financing risk ?

All interesting stuff........ ?

The question is - are increased prices attracting or putting off buyers ?

Id like to know who all the rented propertys have gone to?????

Mr Crabtree wrote:
The question is - are increased prices attracting or putting off buyers ?

These comments were very intriguing (highly amusing) so i decided to visit this development to see what all the fuss is about.

What a delightful experience it was! The site looks fantastic, lots of green space. well presented, friendly and knowledgeable staff.

It would appear there are 13 occupied homes, 2 of which are affordable! 26 homes have been sold privately by DWH leaving 13. This equates to 2/3's of the private properties for sale!

Put that on your spreadsheet and smoke it!

You might want to think about getting out of the house more? Or watch the Olympics?

ceserasera123 wrote:

Mr Crabtree wrote: The question is - are increased prices attracting or putting off buyers ?

These comments were very intriguing (highly amusing) so i decided to visit this development to see what all the fuss is about. What a delightful experience it was! The site looks fantastic, lots of green space. well presented, friendly and knowledgeable staff. It would appear there are 13 occupied homes, 2 of which are affordable! 26 homes have been sold privately by DWH leaving 13. This equates to 2/3's of the private properties for sale! Put that on your spreadsheet and smoke it! You might want to think about getting out of the house more? Or watch the Olympics?

Care to tell us why you were so interested to check out the sales position, and where you work ?

Interesting that you posted your comment the day after this story came off the most commented list, because it was over a week old. This means that you made a special effort to find the story. All this effort to try and make the sales position look convincing. What are you so worried about ?

It's very easy to calculate that 2/3rds x 39 = 26. A primary school child could do the maths, so a sales negotiator should have no problem in coming up with the figure.

What would be more convincing though, is a list of the plot numbers that are sold. Those of us who are sceptical about the accuracy of the claim that 2/3rds are sold, would then be able to check that none of these plots have either 'Available' signs on them or advertised for sale on DWH website.

People are watching the sales on this site....... !!!!!