Cabbies’ fury at free-for-all idea (From York Press)

Competition is good for customers.

Not that good.Look what it did to the utilities bills.

snugglebunny wrote:
Not that good.Look what it did to the utilities bills.

Yes, they went down other things being equal - e.g. phones well down, though of course where energy costs have soared then so have energy bills.

Anyway back onto the article - I thought people could sell/buy plates for thousands - is that not the case though if it's a waiting list and then you pay £107?

Of course the Taxi companies would think this is a bad idea.... some are able to sell a licence plate for thousands of pounds that they only paid hundreds for.
If the cap is removed it will increase revenue for CofY council and lower fares for customers..... there will still be a need for taxi's but the playing field will be level.

How will competition be good for customers? Fares are already decided by the local council so costs will not decrease as these are decided to ensure that the drivers can cover their costs such as fuel and other operational expenses. As someone has mentioned drivers could end up on the road for 14 hours a day just trying to break even/ earn a living. This is not in the interest of the general public due to the associated risks.

There is a reason for having a limit on the numbers of licenses in issue and that is supply and demand. At the moment demand is easily met. Scaremongers can't be allowed to use events (ie the races) as reasons to increase the numbers- you have to consider all of the facts. The facts which point out we have an excellent service already provided for deregulation will actually cost the local tax payers through having to pay for more ranks- the current ranks can't cope with the existing numbers of cars never minf a 100% increase!

Hopefully this will not happen.

The system didn't seem to broke; does it really need fixing?

Yorkshire_one wrote:
How will competition be good for customers? Fares are already decided by the local council so costs will not decrease as these are decided to ensure that the drivers can cover their costs such as fuel and other operational expenses. As someone has mentioned drivers could end up on the road for 14 hours a day just trying to break even/ earn a living. This is not in the interest of the general public due to the associated risks.

There is a reason for having a limit on the numbers of licenses in issue and that is supply and demand. At the moment demand is easily met. Scaremongers can't be allowed to use events (ie the races) as reasons to increase the numbers- you have to consider all of the facts. The facts which point out we have an excellent service already provided for deregulation will actually cost the local tax payers through having to pay for more ranks- the current ranks can't cope with the existing numbers of cars never minf a 100% increase!

Hopefully this will not happen.

Should the drivers be allowed to sell the plates to other parties then?
To make this fare on the waiting list they should only be able to sell them back to the council.

More taxis on the road = more dangerous roads.

Bad idea.

If any of you think its atruelly wonderfull idea, then totally de-regulise taxi's and see what would happen. Dublin did this and its a right mess. Unsafe vehicles that are used 24/7 with different drivers, rape,fraud,backhande
rs with garages to let the vehicle pass (RTE uncovered this) .Just think drivers from other parts like Bradford taking custom from local drivers. Very good idea NOT.

this is gonna be a nightmare...

the problem is simple, york is a crap city to be a taxi driver in, its not a council problem, its not a dirver problem, its a geographic and demographic problem.

the present number of taxis is too many for the population of york residents, but is not enough for the population of yorks drinking venues

if you have just enough for the city, you dont have enough for saturday night, if you have enough for saturday night, then they wont be enough work for the rest of the week and people go bust.

I have not driven for a while now but its not changed, I have gone out at 6pm to start and not done a job before 10pm! then from 10pm to midnight I have done 3-4 jobs an hour, then from 12-3am its as many as you can get done as fast as you can...

its this irregular pattern to work that makes the job so **** hard.

if you think a driver starts at 6pm and he is 14th car on the rank, that having more cars on making him 28th car on the rank an improvement, well...

i have just reverted back to private hire after been a hackney driver for 13 yrs for one simple reason, ....you cannot earn a living been a hackney driver , simple

Big Bad Wolf wrote:

Yorkshire_one wrote: How will competition be good for customers? Fares are already decided by the local council so costs will not decrease as these are decided to ensure that the drivers can cover their costs such as fuel and other operational expenses. As someone has mentioned drivers could end up on the road for 14 hours a day just trying to break even/ earn a living. This is not in the interest of the general public due to the associated risks. There is a reason for having a limit on the numbers of licenses in issue and that is supply and demand. At the moment demand is easily met. Scaremongers can't be allowed to use events (ie the races) as reasons to increase the numbers- you have to consider all of the facts. The facts which point out we have an excellent service already provided for deregulation will actually cost the local tax payers through having to pay for more ranks- the current ranks can't cope with the existing numbers of cars never minf a 100% increase! Hopefully this will not happen.

Should the drivers be allowed to sell the plates to other parties then? To make this fare on the waiting list they should only be able to sell them back to the council.

It's a fair point that, but also difficult to answer. On one hand the council should perhaps regulate how the plates are sold on to ensure that the waiting list serves a purpose and these people have the first opportunity to gain a plate. On the other though it would be unfair for any current plate owners to lose out financially- if press reports are anything to go by they are a valuable commodity!

lezyork1966 wrote:
this is gonna be a nightmare... the problem is simple, york is a crap city to be a taxi driver in, its not a council problem, its not a dirver problem, its a geographic and demographic problem. the present number of taxis is too many for the population of york residents, but is not enough for the population of yorks drinking venues if you have just enough for the city, you dont have enough for saturday night, if you have enough for saturday night, then they wont be enough work for the rest of the week and people go bust. I have not driven for a while now but its not changed, I have gone out at 6pm to start and not done a job before 10pm! then from 10pm to midnight I have done 3-4 jobs an hour, then from 12-3am its as many as you can get done as fast as you can... its this irregular pattern to work that makes the job so **** hard. if you think a driver starts at 6pm and he is 14th car on the rank, that having more cars on making him 28th car on the rank an improvement, well...

At least the initial consensus is a NO to deregulation...

This old chestnut keeps rearing it's ugly head, just like the the "Big Wheel" and "Clifton Green cycle lane" scenorios. It just never lies down. As far as I can see, the Hackney at the Station and St Saviorgate spend all day and evening hanging about. Then, as in every City in the UK, they are busy for 2 or 3 hours on a Friday and Saturday night. So putting twice as many taxis on the streets of York would achieve exactly the opposite to what the CoY council want. That is less cars in the city centre.
Come on, Law Commission, give it a rest.

York hackney drivers may then pick up off the street rather going back to York Station to make a living

Station taxis are the worst for not picking up off the street they only pick up off the street if there is nothing at the station or the when night clubs are chucking out then they will come out of the station to pick up in York

Taxi drivers only bring these things on them selves with there restrictive practices of only picking up at there favorite ranks

Speaking as a retired Bobby I think the issue should start with a review of what kind of cab system do we want.Less regulation leads to attacks on vulnerable passengers.However, why have a two tier system and all the associated perceived privileges of selling on plates etc.In London there was a problem with moonlighting and cabbies not being properly insured.However, when it came to night clubs kicking out having a sufficient number of cabs available helped to stop people standing around and trouble kicking off.To use a good Yorkshire saying "If in doubt do nowt" The Fire Service has issues around peak work times -perhaps someone who has sat in on reforming them could help?.

Am I missing something here. Plates changing hands for thousands of pounds! If it was so bad being a cabbie in York, you would not be able to give them away.

The selling of plates has become a black market. Technically the plates belong to the council and cabbies have no right to sell them on. Surely it is their own fault if they have bought something that the seller had no right to sell, and the council claimed back ownership.

bjb wrote:
Am I missing something here. Plates changing hands for thousands of pounds! If it was so bad being a cabbie in York, you would not be able to give them away. The selling of plates has become a black market. Technically the plates belong to the council and cabbies have no right to sell them on. Surely it is their own fault if they have bought something that the seller had no right to sell, and the council claimed back ownership.

Well why has the council allowed it happen? They must know who the owners of plates are- if they have allowed it how would that be fair on the buyers of plates? Essentially their purchase becomes worthless and I imagine claims being made against the council etc etc. This seems like change for the sake of change and for no benefit- all I see is more public finances wasted!

..is it that time of year again..?

..makes me laugh, if ever the press want to find out if anyone is paying attention - 'Taxi' story/article. Instantly scores of experts hove into view to air their undoubted wealth of knowledge and heartfelt opinions on a matter that many (as usual) haven't got a clue about.

As a person who has endeavoured to earn a living in said trade over the last decade and a non expert, I should just like to add my ‘Ha’ penneth’.

Many many people will fence a compelling argument for and against the de-regulation of taxis, many people have a keen interest in the outcome of said debate. Certainly those who were unfortunate enough to buy a ‘Hackney plate’ at the peak of their worth several years ago (£60 – 65k), may be slightly ‘miffed’ to find that something that may have been financed over a good number of years, that was actually the property of the City of York council, had overnight become absolutely WORTHLESS (save of course for the £107p/a City of York license fee).

You see, as far as I can ascertain, attitudes to the buying and selling of something that remains essentially the property of the City of York Council (Hackney license plates), by a good number of the members of the City of York Council, is in fact liable to remain pretty much in limbo and a largely taboo subject, owing simply to the fact that they themselves officially sanctioned the sale of essentially nothing more than the potential to earn a living, sanctioned BY the Council.

Indeed, many councillors have themselves profited substantially by the essentially ‘free’ Hackney vehicle licenses, I speak undoubtedly amongst others, in particular of the current leader of the opposition, none other than Councilor Ian Gillies http://democracy.yor
k.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.
aspx?UID=1103 (link undoubtedly filled with spaces by ‘the press’ to make it difficult for anyone to simply ‘click’ on a link) , who, I’m guessing, would be strongly opposed to de-regulation. It is no secret to many in ‘the trade’ that when Cllr Alexander (who incidentally I don’t support) raised question to the cause, Cllr Gillies instantly responded to the mere hint of such allegation with, ‘have you got a problem with that.?’, or words to the effect. And how do I know this to be fact, because I heard it from the horse’s mouth during a cab journey!

To Joe public, the reality is that they really and honestly don’t give a fig, just so long as they get to where they want to go, when they want to go there, and they don’t have their leg lifted in the process. At 2.30am blind drunk having been ejected from a night club they’d happily jump in the back of a builders wagon just so long as it gets them to within half a mile of where they think they want to be.. and this simply adds fuel to the fire that there’s never enough taxis in York.. never that is unless you want a taxi at 12.30pm on a Tuesday afternoon when, all joking apart, and to be fair, during many other times through the rest of the week, you could, in all honesty specify a make, model, colour, and indeed (for those so inclined) an ethnic persuasion of driver.! (And before we break off on a tangent, this is not a racist statement, merely an indication of fact).

"Big Bad Wolf says...
11:05am Wed 25 Jul 12
Of course the Taxi companies would think this is a bad idea...."
Howling up the wrong tree there pal. ‘Taxi Firms’ such as ‘Streamline/Local, Fleetways, etc, etc, etc’, have little, if anything to do with the Hackney trade, which of course is the issue being called in to question here. Their level of involvement ends at often a driver or shareholder within the company being granted a ‘free’ plate by the C.O.Y.C (City of York Council) often by virtue of the length of time they have spent on the list (for the first, second or perhaps even third time), and the shareholders of said company (consumed with jealousy at the prospect of someone getting a free ride, plus also being aware that the firm’s rates and that of the ‘Hackneys’ deviate albeit slightly, would cause conflict within the firm). Often this causes one of a number of things, the driver
1. (rental) saves himself between £100 and £140p/w in subs, say’s ‘stuff it’, and goes Hackneying (just pay your annual vehicle and driver license fees to C.O.Y.C (top of my head £250 per year + naturally the usual (taxi insurance, fuel etc))
2. Sells the plate (owned and granted by C.O.Y.C to a willing party who then in the eyes of the council become the legal proprietor of the plate) price currently around £35k, or
3. And perhaps more contentiously, as in the case of a number of shareholders at various firms, they ‘rent’ a freely granted hackney plated vehicle out to some ‘monkey’ for in excess of £250 per week (this of course, due to earlier court issues includes in many cases the insurance (which has to be in the plate proprietors name as does the vehicle) but not of course the fuel and in many cases wear and tear, as, in many cases, so long as the vehicle is netting a handsome profit who cares).

"Yorkshire_one says...
11:19am Wed 25 Jul 12
How will competition be good for customers?"
With drivers not having to earn such huge sums of money before they earn a penny (sweeping aside of course how liquid gold has seen a 100% increase inside 10 years, not to mention insurance which to many almost seems a license to print money in itself – and on a personal note is the only time of the year I feel 17 again), the price to trade for the driver would have dropped hugely – which is likely to be reflected in the fares. Fares are merely regulated, not dictated by local government, and frankly, as a private hire driver, I’m convinced the Council couldn’t care less if we lived or died, so regarding earning a living, well.. enough said.

For me, the most vile and reprehensible blind eye that the council turn is to that of multiple/corporate plate ownership. There are many Hackney proprietors that have 4,5 and 6 plates to their name. The same people who are netting approx £250 per week off each plate and moan about not earning a living. It is these offensive people that in my opinion keep fares artificially high due to the outlay of the average rental driver who, having been on the waiting list for years still has to pay through the nose simply in order to try and earn a living.

It is York’s taxi cartel that calls the shots for this trade in the city, not the council. The Council are merely paying this old chestnut little more than ‘lip service’, however they cannot be absolved entirely from blame. For example only a few short years ago the Council granted a ‘free’ plate to a person registered as blind. When challenged over this mind bogglingly flippant oversight, the taxi licensing officer (who shall remain nameless) said that ‘the City of York Council does not discriminate’, SHE failed to point out that they clearly operate devoid of any common sense or regard to the safety of the fare paying public, owing to the fact that a driver is often forced to spend well in excess of 14 hrs a day behind the wheel simply to try and earn a living.

Then for another example, there are the people who have been granted a ‘free’ plate for a second or third time. How on earth is this any different from people sitting on the list for a council house, getting one, buying it, two years down the line selling it, sitting on the list then gaining another council house to sell? Wrong wrong wrong.!!

Why do I do this job? Believe me, I’m desperately trying to find a way out.. the sums for some simply aren’t adding up any more.

The Council should sell plates but there should be different ones. 6am to 6pm Mon to Thurs plates, 6pm to 6am Mon to Thurs plates, same again for Fri and Sat plates. All to one named individual, the plate belongs to the council like a council house does, it's used or given up, not sold on nor ever sub-let.
Existing plates must be honoured so let's say 24-7 for the next 5 years, then they become invalid and the owners chose from the above list.

National plan then... thought up by the government... and using that odl term: deregulation.
Ah how the Tories love deregulating things... Buses, Trains, Electric, Gas, Water, Coal... anybody would think they make a ship load of money everytime they deregulate something, as every new Tory cabinet always tries to sell off something in this way.