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'A serious threat to city centre's future' (From York Press)
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Campaign 4 York opposes the Monks Cross community stadium and retail development
8:30am Wednesday 16th May 2012 in News
As councillors prepare to make a decision on a new community stadium and retail development at Monks Cross, the Campaign 4 York – which opposes the scheme – explains why it believes the proposals should be turned down.
Q. Why do you oppose the Monks Cross plans?
A. The proposals are a serious, obvious threat to the short and long-term future of the city centre. There are two simultaneous proposals totalling nearly 500,000sq ft, with thousands of free car-parking spaces, threatening the economic and cultural vitality and viability of the city in the 800th year of its Royal Charter. The city centre would simply not be able to exist and compete on a level playing field. It is crucial to take a longer-term approach to delivering more central options for retail growth, securing the future of the historic core, rather than being lured by the “benefits” of an unviable stadium proposal which is not universally supported.
Drivers Jonas Deloitte (DJD), in their independent review for City of York Council, conclude the proposals fail the sequential test and are likely to have a significant adverse impact on the vitality and viability of the city centre, and are likely to prejudice planned investment in the city centre. They also conclude the scheme could prejudice the council’s emerging planning strategy and is therefore premature. DJD appear to have seen no evidence to demonstrate this could be regarded as “enabling development”. In every key respect, they support our conclusions and concerns. There is no evidence supporting such a large-scale out-of-town proposal. Oakgate have not adequately demonstrated the amount of floorspace proposed is required to fund the stadium. This amount of development would harm the delivery of existing and emerging development plan objectives and policies. Both this and the crippling impact on the city-centre’s trade and turnover will result in inevitable restriction on investment, and significant displacement and disinvestment. The proposal’s scale raises serious sustainability concerns. The site’s accessibility will increase reliance on private car transport and add pressure to the public transport network. Adequate mitigation is not proposed, and even it were, it would be a clear and obvious indicator that the site is not appropriately located and is contrary to the council’s principles of sustainability.
Q. What evidence do you use to support your claims?
A. GVA, who undertook the 2008 Regional Study for York, have given written evidence the city centre would permanently lose 15 to 20 per cent of its income. That evidence is supported by the DJD report and further corroborated by Jones Lang LaSalle’s written evidence to the council.
The applications are contrary to National Planning Policy Framework (NPPF), the Regional Spatial Strategy in the Yorkshire and Humber Plan 2008, and local planning policy. The NPPF encompasses planning for economic prosperity, people and places. This application fails to meet these objectives as a result of the harm on the city centre and neighbourhood community areas, the lack of sustainability and Monks Cross’s poor accessibility. The principles of the NPPF and its detailed considerations are compromised.
Within the 2008 draft of York’s emerging Allocations Draft Planning Document, Monks Cross is not indicated as a future retail site. It also describes how future retail development will be located towards district and local centres, in accordance with national retail policy. The location of future retail provision in York is made clear in the publication draft of York’s emerging Core Strategy, with the strategic objective for retail stating its priority is to “deliver new shopping provision to support the vitality and viability of the city centre and meet local shopping needs”.
These principles are then translated into draft policies, which state sustainable economic growth will be achieved by “supporting the protection and enhancement of the commercial, business, retail, leisure and tourism of York city centre”, and that York’s Local Development Framework “will support the vitality and viability of the city centre, with the central shopping area continuing to be the primary focus for new comparison goods retail development”.
The central shopping area is identified as being the priority location for new retail growth, with draft policy stating out-of-town centres will be considered as “phase two” (post-2020) location for growth, and only then in light of the “impact on existing centres and retail allocations”. York’s finalised Core Strategy specifically states: “The amount of comparison floorspace in out-of-town retail destinations will not be expanded.”
Q. So where do you believe Oakgate are wrong?
A. The developers have underestimated the proportion of the proposed turnover likely to be drawn away from the city centre. Of the assumed total turnover of £154 million, the applicant estimates only 25 per cent – £38.9 million – would be diverted away from the city centre. Putting this into context, they estimate more than £50 million of the proposal’s turnover will be diverted from Monks Cross and Clifton Moor retail parks. This assumption is illogical and fundamentally flawed, with profound consequences for the overall level of impact for the proposals. Indigo, in their assessment of the Monks Cross proposals, recognise the likelihood of a much greater level of overlap between Monks Cross and the city centre. Their assessment assumes 40 per cent of the proposal’s turnover will be diverted from the city centre. Given Oakgate’s proposals comprise relocation of a Marks & Spencer store and more directly-competing department/variety store facilities, GVA consider this level of overlap will be more significant. GVA’s view is that at least 50 per cent of the proposal’s turnover is likely to be diverted from the city centre.
On this basis, they consider about £80 million of trade will be lost directly from the city centre to the Oakgate proposals, ignoring the additional effects of competing developments in neighbouring city centres and at Monks Cross itself. They consider a more realistic assessment, taking into account these other developments, is likely to be in the range of 15-20 per cent – at least £95 million – of total city-centre sales permanently.
Q. Isn’t the possibility of more out-of-town shopping simply a case of extra competition?
A. It isn’t a fair, level playing field in terms of competition, because it’s far easier to park outside a store than to get the bus into town or pay expensive parking charges.
The question should be whether a 33 per cent increase in the amount of out-of-town shopping – meaning that, if these proposals are approved, York will be facing total out-of-town floorspace similar to that of Meadowhall – is a sustainable development?
An extra 500,000sq ft of retail with free parking isn’t fair competition when added to the existing 500,000sq ft of retail at Monks Cross. It’s not competition – it’s annihilation.
Q. Out-of-town shopping centres have free parking; the city-centre has its beautiful surroundings and international reputation. In terms of advantages and benefits, isn’t it just swings and roundabouts?
A. How attractive to residents or visitors would York’s city centre be if it was full of empty shops, bookmakers, charity shops and coffee shops? People visit York as residents, tourists and potential investors for shopping in a well-maintained heritage environment, not the other way around. If there are no shops, it will just be a museum. How sustainable is that?
Q. What would you say to those who claim your opposition is based on vested interests, rather than a desire for what is best for the city?
A. Nobody proposes or objects to anything unless they have an interest. Developers are vested to the tune of tens of millions of pounds. The council has the second-biggest vested financial interest here, and the owners of York City FC have the third. Football fans are vested because they’ve been spun tall tales. Businesses are vested because they are responsible for keeping people in work.
Q. If the Monks Cross plans are rejected, you may face a backlash from certain quarters, such as York City fans who fear for the future of their club, or residents who want to see John Lewis come to York. Are you prepared for this?
A. We are prepared to stand up for the economic, cultural and environmental good and global distinction of York, to welcome John Lewis into the city centre – where they are more than capable of competing on a level playing field – and to work with the valuable communities of supporters of York City Knights and York City FC for a positive outcome. Most of them fully understand and appreciate our concerns.
Q. What – if anything – would make you change your mind about opposition to this scheme?
A. Free parking in the city centre? A change in the worldwide economic situation? The collapse of the internet? The removal of the retail aspect of the requirement to build a stadium on a viable business case.
Q. If the Oakgate plans are approved by City of York Council, what would be your next step?
A. That’s for each business or organisation or individual to consider. For the moment, we are engaging fairly and properly on the issues with the officers and councillors of City of York Council.
Q. And if the Monks Cross scheme does go ahead in spite of your opposition, what should be done to ensure the city centre is not harmed by this development?
A. That’s not our job. That’s the responsibility of Coun James Alexander, the council leader, and his cabinet. The irreversible demise of this great city centre and the probable white elephant, loss-making stadium would be his and their legacy.
Comments(28)
Even AndyD
says...
8:39am Wed 16 May 12
If this doesn't show that the campaign against is merely about protectionism and self-interest, I don't know what does.
Anyway, below is an article from ten years ago, see what you think.
17th May 2002 - Coppergate will put York's specialist shops out of business..
Adam Sinclair, Chairman of York Chamber of Trade, claimed that established retailers elsewhere in York would not be able to compete on a level playing field with the £60 million Coppergate development. He said that there was a "frightening and intimidating" threat to the viability of other parts of the city centre, he also pointed out that demand for retail space in the city was already so poor that units at Stonegate Walk had not been let after a year on the market.
Woody Mellor
says...
8:41am Wed 16 May 12
johnabostock
says...
8:51am Wed 16 May 12
Woody Mellor wrote:Surely, it`s not only the football fans that form the `other side of the coin` but also the rugby and athletics - all will lose out in the long term. Take a look at the state of Huntington Stadium as it is now, plus the athletics won`t be able to move to the university site. All professional sport in York will suffer!
I'd like to see an article from the other side of the coin, the football fans. Sorry, I meant, the Pro-Monks Cross retail development supporters.
Even AndyD
says...
8:52am Wed 16 May 12
roskoboskovic
says...
9:16am Wed 16 May 12
maybejustmaybe
says...
9:19am Wed 16 May 12
KAT1965
says...
10:01am Wed 16 May 12
roskoboskovic wrote:They don't look the type that would ever step foot in John Lewis so it's no great loss to them. I also suspect that they have never been to a football match or understand what a football club (or rugby club for that matter) - however small - means to certain sections of the community. I for one would like to see Piccadilly developed as its an eyesore and Castle Car Park is a joke.
why is it that the press has so obviously come out on the side of the campaign 4 york mob.i can see the glorious d agorne in your photo which has confirmed my approval for the development.come on stop messing about,run a poll in the press and you ll soon see what the majority of press readers/locals want.what s stopping you.
You only have to go to the Westfield Centre at Stratford to see how redevelopment of a retail centre can re-invigorate a town. Not that I am suggesting for one minute that York is anything like a pre-Olympic Stratford!!
The fact of the matter is that Oakgate have a plan on the table which John Lewis (and M&S) prefer. Piccadilly is currently hot air and I suspect that the potential archaeology would seriously slow any redevelopment of that site - no woinder JL are currently not interested. Not to mention the fragmented land ownership issues. Noted that Northminster have been quiet for a while - or are they the hidden puppeteer? As they have much to gain from any development on Piccadilly.
Its no surprise that York's commercial property scene is fairly tight knit - don't be surprised by the kind of deals that are made over a glass of Prosecco in any of the current crop of trendy bars in the City.
TerryYork
says...
10:06am Wed 16 May 12
The Press should stop giving attention to these idiots.
speaks99
says...
10:20am Wed 16 May 12
This is a campaign led by retailers to save the revenue they currently make.
They campaigned AGAINST coppergate 10 years ago, just like they are doing today. And can anyone point to some MAJOR retail development in the past 20/30 years? York today looks very much like the York of 30 years ago, where as towns like Leeds, manchester, Doncaster, Hull, Rotherham, Wakefield have all moved on.
Now ask yourselves why we are so far behind in terms of development? Perhaps its the same people campaigning against progression.
Eric Bartholomew
says...
10:40am Wed 16 May 12
To be honest it was a pretty poor show,with many in just oddball tourist shops that residents would never set foot in anyway.
As for Atherton's that's gone because they didn't adapt to the modern world,it had just become a dinasour.
The Legend Of Keith
says...
11:49am Wed 16 May 12
Prob
says...
12:37pm Wed 16 May 12
A. Free parking in the city centre? A change in the worldwide economic situation? The collapse of the internet?
Wow. Nutters.
Even AndyD
says...
12:51pm Wed 16 May 12
Ditto - YCFC only have two fans, why cater for them, and next its these YCFC fans will 'bring traffic mayhem' once a fortnight.
Then its anti-Coppergate in 2002 and for it now. Or anti-out of town but Mr Sinclair has a store out there.
This is the problem when you tailor your argument to what suits rather than to the facts or to your true opinion - you end up contradicting yourself.
Lets stop listening to these few traders and get it built. The replies on today's threads say it all, its what people want. If only the Press had allowed that poll......
Ichabod76
says...
1:09pm Wed 16 May 12
maybejustmaybe wrote:Why should anybody but the football club, which is a private business pay for a new ground?
If the city centre shops cough up £10m to redevelop the Crescent, I for one will be happy to stay there.
I could do with a bigger factory and warehouse but I don't think COYC will build me one with a subsidized rent.
Mr Crabtree
says...
1:10pm Wed 16 May 12
If all Labour councillors vote to approve, it will be passed, as they have 9 out of the 16 committee members;
Boyce
Cunningham-Cross (Chair)
Funnell
King
McIlveen
Merrett
Simpson-Laing
Watson
Williams
The rest are as follows:-
Galvin (Con & Vice-chair)
Healey (Con)
Watt (Con)
Ayre (Lib-Dem)
Reid (Lib-Dem)
Firth (Lib-Dem)
D'Agorne (Green)
If Merrett and Simpson-Laing abstain and the other parties vote to refuse, it will be 7 each and then I think the chair will have the casting vote (correct me if I'm wrong).
I think it will be a close call, and it could be in the hands of Merrett and Simpson-Laing. If they want to protect their LDF, and defy their leader, they will vote for refusal. I don't think they are brave enough to make a stand, but, I may be wrong ?
What do others think ?
What about Andy D, who claims to understand the political nuances of this issue ?
Missy7878
says...
1:11pm Wed 16 May 12
Mr Crabtree
says...
1:15pm Wed 16 May 12
Even AndyD wrote:14 comments, up to when you posted this one, by 11 different posters (you did 3 and KAT1965 did 2) - it may be a majority on this thread, but, hardly representative of the majority of York !
Full of contradictions too. One moment its not a 'level playing field' because of expensive inner-city parking costs. Next its people don't want MX because petrol is expensive and its further to travel. Ditto - YCFC only have two fans, why cater for them, and next its these YCFC fans will 'bring traffic mayhem' once a fortnight. Then its anti-Coppergate in 2002 and for it now. Or anti-out of town but Mr Sinclair has a store out there. This is the problem when you tailor your argument to what suits rather than to the facts or to your true opinion - you end up contradicting yourself. Lets stop listening to these few traders and get it built. The replies on today's threads say it all, its what people want. If only the Press had allowed that poll......
yorkonafork
says...
1:51pm Wed 16 May 12
It was nice to see so many city centre traders come out of their shops yesterday during the low-key parade (as well as people clapping from the windows), even a few wished the club officials well for Thursday as well as Sunday.
These City-centre traders clearly seemed against it. Oh dear....
Even AndyD
says...
3:00pm Wed 16 May 12
Mr Crabtree wrote:Fair point, Mr C. I don't pretend to have scientific evidence, but from reading comments in the Press to speaking to others, the impression I get is most residents are for the scheme. Others may disagree, I can only tell it as I see it.
Even AndyD wrote:14 comments, up to when you posted this one, by 11 different posters (you did 3 and KAT1965 did 2) - it may be a majority on this thread, but, hardly representative of the majority of York !
Full of contradictions too. One moment its not a 'level playing field' because of expensive inner-city parking costs. Next its people don't want MX because petrol is expensive and its further to travel. Ditto - YCFC only have two fans, why cater for them, and next its these YCFC fans will 'bring traffic mayhem' once a fortnight. Then its anti-Coppergate in 2002 and for it now. Or anti-out of town but Mr Sinclair has a store out there. This is the problem when you tailor your argument to what suits rather than to the facts or to your true opinion - you end up contradicting yourself. Lets stop listening to these few traders and get it built. The replies on today's threads say it all, its what people want. If only the Press had allowed that poll......
greenmonkey
says...
4:14pm Wed 16 May 12
Mr Crabtree wrote:Cllr Merrett has ducked out of taking part, with Cllr Steve Burton substituting for him. Draw your own conclusions...
Too late for a press poll - by this time tomorrow it will be all over. If all Labour councillors vote to approve, it will be passed, as they have 9 out of the 16 committee members; Boyce Cunningham-Cross (Chair) Funnell King McIlveen Merrett Simpson-Laing Watson Williams The rest are as follows:- Galvin (Con & Vice-chair) Healey (Con) Watt (Con) Ayre (Lib-Dem) Reid (Lib-Dem) Firth (Lib-Dem) D'Agorne (Green) If Merrett and Simpson-Laing abstain and the other parties vote to refuse, it will be 7 each and then I think the chair will have the casting vote (correct me if I'm wrong). I think it will be a close call, and it could be in the hands of Merrett and Simpson-Laing. If they want to protect their LDF, and defy their leader, they will vote for refusal. I don't think they are brave enough to make a stand, but, I may be wrong ? What do others think ? What about Andy D, who claims to understand the political nuances of this issue ?
Mr Crabtree
says...
1:21am Thu 17 May 12
Surprised Simpson-Laing hasn't cried off also. It will be interesting if she goes against the LDF ?
KAT1965
says...
8:12am Thu 17 May 12
The Great Buda
says...
8:32am Thu 17 May 12
Get it built; give the residents something.
long distance depressive
says...
9:15am Thu 17 May 12
NeilC1
says...
10:06am Thu 17 May 12
Also, let's remember that smaller independent traders are those that bring differentiation to a city's high street, with new and innovative products and services. If all we do is pander to the homogeneous offer of the multiples, won't it/we be boring?
I've no objection to a new retail park/stadium, but the location just doesn't seem to work for me.
As an aside, I think the local authority should scrap expensive parking and look to reduce business rates for independent retailers. At this rate we'll find traders moving out with or without the new development, the result, York city centre will serve historic sight seeing only, the buzz will disappear.
long distance depressive
says...
11:31am Thu 17 May 12
jayeskaycee
says...
12:15am Fri 18 May 12
KAT1965 says...
8:38am Wed 16 May 12