"This is about the future of the police service"

JENNIFER BELL reports from today's huge police demonstration in London.

ANGRY off-duty officers from North Yorkshire joined colleagues from all 43 forces across England and Wales on London’s streets in protest against the Government over pay.

Parts of central London fell silent as 16,000 of the estimated 30,000 officers in today's rally donned black caps, to represent each police officer expected to be lost over the next four years under budget cuts.

The remaining officers wore white caps as they strode through the capital to deliver a stark message to Home Secretary Theresa May, who in January approved Tom Winsor's recommendations about reforming police pay in full.

The march is believed to be the biggest ever police demonstration.

Two train-loads of North Yorkshire officers left York and Scarborough before 8am to head to the capital, and the mass march commenced at noon, with officers of all ranks taking part.

The off-duty officers, which included 117 from North Yorkshire - about ten per cent of the rank-and-file - marched about a mile, from Millbank to Waterloo Place, passing the Home Office, Parliament Square, Whitehall and Trafalgar Square.

Passers-by watched as officers waved placards, bearing the words "RIP greatest police service in the world", "enough is enough" and "cutting police by 20 per event is criminal". Many onlookers cheered and there were spontaneous rounds of applause.

The 90-minute march, organised by the Police Federation for England and Wales, was mostly quiet but officers got noisier as they passed the Home Office, and some placed banners beside the building for Home Secretary Theresa May.

As officers passed the finish point at Pall Mall, Mike Stubbs, deputy chair of the North Yorkshire Police Federation, said: "It is clear that neither Tom Winsor, the policing minister, the Home Secretary or the Government understand what a catastrophic effect this reform will have. I hope this has been a wake-up call for them."

Detective Sgt Stuart Barnett, of York, told The Press: "This is not just about pay. This is about conditions and the environment we are going to be working in. This is about the future of the police service."

PC Shaun Weldon, who works in rural North Yorkshire, said: "I am in my last year and my main concern is not for myself but the future of this service for my younger colleagues in the force, some of whom are marching today. My concern is what future they face."

Officers from North Yorkshire met several local MPs during and after the march, including Anne Mcintosh, Robert Goodwill, Andrew Jones, Nigel Adams, and Julian Smith, among others.

Det Mohammad Manzoor, of York CID, told The Press he was "very angry" over cuts, saying: "This is about privatising through the back door the public sector for profiteering. There will be an exodus of skilled workers who will never be replaced."

PC Jim Martin, of Thirsk, added: "This is about the institution and the heart of Safer Neighbourhod Policing being threatened. This is not about money."

He said officers, especially in North Yorkshire, were angry over the way they had been treated over working hours and conditions.

Pc Michael Lynch, vice chair of the North Yorkshire Police Authority, said he thought reduced officer numbers would lead to a hike in crime, adding: "The only thing you get for less is less."

North Yorkshire Police had 1,656 serving officers in 2007 but 1,500 in 2010 and 1,443 in 2011, and the number is forecast to drop to 1,270 by 2015.

The Winsor Review said four in ten officers could lose up to £4,000 a year, but said the rest would gain by up to £2,000 annually.

Mark Botham, chairman of the North Yorkshire Police Federation, said: “This is probably the biggest challenge to our pay, conditions of service and future that police officers have faced in their history.

“It is less than a year since the president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, Sir Hugh Orde, spoke in Harrogate and warned that cuts and plans for reforming the police service risk ‘compromising the safety of citizens for reasons of expediency’."

Paul McKeever, the national federation's chairman, said: "The reality of the cuts to policing is really beginning to bite; numbers are beginning to fall rapidly.

"In the past year alone we have lost over 5,200 police officers from the frontline and we are witnessing the privatisation of core policing roles as chief officers struggle to cope with budget restraints.

"The Government need to be realistic about the outcome of severe cuts to policing; we cannot afford to compromise on public safety."

Theresa May, who asked former rail regulator Tom Winsor to carry out the most wide-ranging review of police pay and conditions in 30 years, will address the officers at their annual conference in Bournemouth next week.

Ms May said in January that she knew some police would be disappointed by the Winsor Review but stressed there would be no reduction in basic pay.

She hit back at the protest, saying: "As a service spending £14billion a year I think it is right for the police to make their contribution to reducing their record budget deal."

Comments(19)

Shouter says...
4:09pm Thu 10 May 12

If the previous government hadn't wasted billions on paying off the bankers, we wouldn't be in this situation now.

Gyspsy Power says...
5:00pm Thu 10 May 12

What is the problem here. It was only up until 20 years ago anyone could be a policeman providing they were a certain height and were willing to wear a big shiny nipple on their head. If there was actual day to day front line policing I would have symapthy for them . The majority of police officers are arrogant scum.

Sillybillies says...
5:43pm Thu 10 May 12

It was only up until 20 years ago anyone could be a policeman providing they were a certain height and were willing to wear a big shiny nipple on their head.

Wrong, there were stringent educational and fitness requirements.

What is sad is that so many members of the public hold the police force in such contempt, especially in North Yorkshire. Maybe the new Police Commissioners can turn this around by firing corrupt or incompetent chief constables as we have had here.

Ideally we need the ACPO ranks culling, and the other ranks decimating. All PCSOs should be sacked outright.

jelly10 says...
6:33pm Thu 10 May 12

"The majority of police officers are arrogant scum."
well, "Gyspsy Power", usually the people with these views are those that have had "dealings" with the police...????
The majority of police put their lives on the line every shift of every day, they are like ships that pass in the night with their families and work **** hard! They do not strike and are always there to serve and protect - even muppets like you with your ridiculous comments!

The Mc says...
10:02pm Thu 10 May 12

Shouter wrote:
If the previous government hadn't wasted billions on paying off the bankers, we wouldn't be in this situation now.
Absolute rubbish. The US banks lent unscrupulosly to people who could not afford to pay back creating a world wide crisis. If Labour had not rescued the banks then millions of people would have lost all their savings, loads of ATMs would have disappeared, borrowing would have been ridiculously high. The country would have been in a far worse state......

Ageing Hippy says...
10:13pm Thu 10 May 12

jelly10 wrote:
"The majority of police officers are arrogant scum."
well, "Gyspsy Power", usually the people with these views are those that have had "dealings" with the police...????
The majority of police put their lives on the line every shift of every day, they are like ships that pass in the night with their families and work **** hard! They do not strike and are always there to serve and protect - even muppets like you with your ridiculous comments!
Well said jelly, its quite sad the way it seems quite de rigueur to slate the Police but when Muppets like Gyspsy fall foul of their own kind they are quick enough to call the very people they call arrogant scum.

Robbop says...
12:27am Fri 11 May 12

Gyspsy Power wrote:
What is the problem here. It was only up until 20 years ago anyone could be a policeman providing they were a certain height and were willing to wear a big shiny nipple on their head. If there was actual day to day front line policing I would have symapthy for them . The majority of police officers are arrogant scum.
What an oxygen thief you are!!!

ReginaldBiscuit says...
9:52am Fri 11 May 12

Some of you should take a long hard look at yourselves. With some of the opinions kicking about on here, is it any wonder that there's a complete lack of respect for the police? Perhaps you would be more comfortable with the bouts of anarchy and lawlessness that exploded last summer? This country, your country, is experiencing a moral meltdown. I think the police do a very, very tough job with some of the trash pond-life that exists out there. They should be supported and respected. If the riots had occurred in some other places on earth, the rioters would have paid with their lives. Losing control is a desperate issue and desperate issues require equally desperate responses.

That said and bear in mind that I think most politicians have the integrity of a piece of shredded and mangled road-kill, I think all of you including the police need to real up somewhat. The government is short of a few bob and simply cannot go on paying outrageous salaries and pensions. There isn't money in the pot to do so. Greece is about to be kicked out of the EU and it looks like Monsieur Hollande single handedly will bring down the rest of the single-currency is he chooses to pursue a reverse path of austerity. Your greedy bankers unfortunately are gravely exposed to bad debts in europe. If I think the inevitable happens, your police will be taking pay and pension cuts soon as the country lurches from crisis to crisis. Still though, chin up.

Sillybillies says...
11:55am Fri 11 May 12

With some of the opinions kicking about on here, is it any wonder that there's a complete lack of respect for the police?

You put the horse before the cart in a way. The lack of respect is because of the failure of the police, especially in North Yorkshire to do what they are paid to do, and this was before any alleged cut backs.

Here in York we have the city centre awash with aggressive beggars bothering residents and tourists alike, and on the outskirts illegally tethered horses on grass verges put lives at risk when they get loose, but the police are doing nothing to enforce the law. Dial 999 for an emergency and no one comes, report a burglary or other serious crime and they don't give a d@mn. This is why the police are held in contempt.

Pete the Brickie says...
2:45pm Fri 11 May 12



ReginaldBiscuit says...
9:52am Fri 11 May 12

Some of you should take a long hard look at yourselves. With some of the opinions kicking about on here, is it any wonder that there's a complete lack of respect for the police? Perhaps you would be more comfortable with the bouts of anarchy and lawlessness that exploded last summer?



Sillybillies response to this is not far off the mark in North Yorkshire. What he hasn't mentioned are the grossly overstaffed, badly supervised, "pre-planned" operations our force is so fond of. There have been a large number of these involving both safeguarding and firearms which have cost tens of thousands of pounds, ruined businesses, destroyed reputations and traumatised totally inocent people in our county. Most of these could have been avoided by someone asking a few very basic questions quite unworthy of Hercule Poirot, hence some people are a little ticked off with them and choose to express negative opinions.

The recent rioting where the Met stood by while law abiding peoples businesses burnt to the ground was triggered by a "pre-planned" police firearms incident which our force has come close to replicating. An unarmed father of three who may or may not have sold drugs at some point in his life was shot dead by police officers with guns. 31 Police officers witnessed this incident, all have declined to be interviewed as is their right strangely and have instead forced investigators to rely on written statements making crimminal behaviour on their part very difficult to prove.

Hardly a shining example to use to re-gain people's respect for the police.

Saying all the above I would still say a vast majority of rank and file officers work very hard doing a difficult job, it is so sad their work is being constantly undone by a minority who constantly escape censure.

Kevin Turvey says...
3:23pm Fri 11 May 12

‘ReginaldBiscuit says...9:52am Fri 11 May 12
Some of you should take a long hard look at yourselves. With some of the opinions kicking about on here, is it any wonder that there's a complete lack of respect for the police? Perhaps you would be more comfortable with the bouts of anarchy and lawlessness that exploded last summer? ‘


Last summer was not anarchy it was criminal activity.

Anarchy is a social system that is much aligned by the statist system and misguides all people into believing that Anarchy is a violence unruly state – nor true.

Anarchy is a series of agreements/bartering system between individuals for goods and services without course for the Rule of government getting in the way, hence why government propaganda deride it as they don’t want you to think that we can do without them.

There was an interest comparison made by a paper written by an American academic after the New Orleans fiasco that compared the statist system and the anarchic and it showed that lives would have been saved.

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Anarchism
http://reason.com/ar
chives/2006/12/11/a-
healthy-dose-of-anar
chy/singlepage
http://www.mendeley.
com/research/katrina
-anarchy-content-ana
lysis-new-disaster-m
yth-pb-routledge/

http://www.oxfordadv
ancedlearnersdiction
ary.com/dictionary
anarchy - a situation in a country, an organization, etc. in which there is no government, order or control

Does not mean violence.

Anyway back to the point:
The Police have lost the respect of the population for many reasons, some are of their own doing and some are down to society in general.

However having serving police officers being paid by journalists for information and going untouched does not help the publics perception!

Also the controversy of the Consulting Association also does not help, where information that could only have come from either MI5 or the police computer should not fill the public with confidence!

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/business/2012/
mar/03/blacklisted-b
uilding-workers-cour
t-hopes
http://www.guardian.
co.uk/technology/201
2/mar/03/police-blac
klist-link-construct
ion-workers
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Consulting_
Association

Sillybillies says...
3:44pm Fri 11 May 12

31 Police officers witnessed this incident, all have declined to be interviewed as is their right strangely and have instead forced investigators to rely on written statements making crimminal behaviour on their part very difficult to prove.

As is their right and yours also. The law must apply equally to all of us.

idontspeakpineapple says...
3:58pm Fri 11 May 12

Like the vast majority of York & NY public, I will always support the police 100%. Yes there are a few numpties in the job but it's magnified by the job they do which is even more magnified by the negative media agenda. Poor leadership doesn't help and they should be empowered to fire the officers who give police a bad name.

Just because my bike got stollen and the police couldn't recover it doesn't mean they are incompetent. I just hope these haters, who may one day need police assistance appreciate the work they do day in day out, dealing with fatal RTCs, drunk idiots, domestics, robbers, muggers, volumes of paper work and constant scrutiny from a tiny percentage of the ill-informed public.

Pete the Brickie says...
4:08pm Fri 11 May 12

Sillybillies wrote:
31 Police officers witnessed this incident, all have declined to be interviewed as is their right strangely and have instead forced investigators to rely on written statements making crimminal behaviour on their part very difficult to prove.

As is their right and yours also. The law must apply equally to all of us.
Well no not quite, the man in the street cannot refuse to be interviewed. He or she can make no comment but that in its self can be used to infer guilt at a trial. There is a big difference between having to answer questions with your reactions and body language being filmed under caution and sitting down with a Fed Rep in private and taking as much time as you like to write down a statement which won't incriminate your colleagues. Interestingly if a builder witnesses or is involved in a serious incident or fatality at work they can be compelled by the HSE to attend a taped interview. It is a strange world we live in when they have more power than the IPC especially when construction workers aren't ever issued with guns.

Pete the Brickie says...
4:39pm Fri 11 May 12

idontspeakpineapple wrote:
Like the vast majority of York & NY public, I will always support the police 100%. Yes there are a few numpties in the job but it's magnified by the job they do which is even more magnified by the negative media agenda. Poor leadership doesn't help and they should be empowered to fire the officers who give police a bad name.

Just because my bike got stollen and the police couldn't recover it doesn't mean they are incompetent. I just hope these haters, who may one day need police assistance appreciate the work they do day in day out, dealing with fatal RTCs, drunk idiots, domestics, robbers, muggers, volumes of paper work and constant scrutiny from a tiny percentage of the ill-informed public.
Hate is a strong word:

My bike got stolen and strangely enough none of my views of some employees of NYP were formed from its loss.

In our force's case I wish anyone had, had the power to sack Graham Maxwell and Adam Briggs. As far as those lower down the ranks Complaints and Discipline and the IPC don't lack the power to get rid of idle or plain bad officers, they lack the means to find the evidence to do so.

I'll repeat what I've always said, despite a complete lack of confidence in the police, yes if I needed them I wouldn't hesitate to call them as they have a monopoly on crime prevention and detection and I am obliged to pay towards the service they provide giving me no choice of provider and a complete right to summon them despite my feelings.

Road traffic deaths, drunks, domestics etc are a tiny proportion of their days in reality. They are reasonably well paid and those who behave properly shouldn't fear scrutiny.

In my opinion the media don't actually expose a lot of what they know in the area of police incompetance.

York1900 says...
10:37am Sun 13 May 12

Well we will have even more to complain about when G4S take over more police duties as the goverment want them to do
Then you will not ha ny one o complain too

York1900 says...
10:48am Sun 13 May 12

The biggest trouble is that it is so hard for the police to put cases together that the CPS will take forward with the CPS deciding weather a case goes to court or not the police have done all the work in crossing the tees and dotting the eyes to find the CPS say NO it is not going to court

Pete the Brickie says...
12:28pm Sun 13 May 12

York1900 wrote:
Well we will have even more to complain about when G4S take over more police duties as the goverment want them to do
Then you will not ha ny one o complain too
This is a myth/scare story being put about by the likes of the Police Federation. Private coimpanies are being used to run custody suites to save money, they will never replace police officers.

Pete the Brickie says...
12:42pm Sun 13 May 12

York1900 wrote:
The biggest trouble is that it is so hard for the police to put cases together that the CPS will take forward with the CPS deciding weather a case goes to court or not the police have done all the work in crossing the tees and dotting the eyes to find the CPS say NO it is not going to court
Police officers are supposed to know the law and make checks to see if it has actually been broken before they as is too often the case act against a person. Often once their basic errors are discovered they then try to "make a case", sometimes they are stopped from proceeding by solicitors but what is happening more these days is the CPS are forced to put a stop to things to prevent trials being thrown out by judges. The burden of proof in jury trials is also higher these days due to the public simply not taking a police officer's word for things any more.

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