More York streets could get 20mph limit (From York Press)

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  Even AndyD wrote:
  

  Woody Mellor wrote:

  BioLogic wrote:

  Anna Semlyen wrote: 89% of residents surveyed in Bristo after 20mph limits approved. Nationally the figure is 73% support, 11% against. 8million peoples authorities have agreed 20mph limits including last week Wigan and Waltham Forest. It is safer, quicker, cleaner, good for the local economy and saves fuel. Traffic flow improves as drivers require shorter gaps and flow is smoothed. See www.20splentyforuk.o rg.uk

  Disraeli was spot on when he said lies, **** lies and statistics and you have just proved the point. Ask a question in the right way and you can prove what you want. ask people do they think that an already introduced 20mph speed limit is a bad think and 89% say no its not a problem. That suddenly translates to 89% approve. However as a practical proposition the whole idea is utterly utterly pointless. Regardless of the improved mortality statistics at 20mph there are some serious real world problems with implementing it. 20mph speed limits can be implemented either through a 20mph "zone" or 20mph "speed limit". A zone has minimal signage (at the entry and exits to the zone only) but must be enforced through traffic calming measures such as speed humps, physical enforcement by the Police is effectively prohibited. So if the traffic calming is ineffective then so is the 20mph zone. A 20mph speed limit is just like any other speed limit, however due to the nature of the areas in which they are normally installed they are very difficult to enforce. Speed enforcement must be undertaken at least 200m inside a speed limit and have clear lines of sight over sufficient distance to measure the speed over. A class example of this is the 20mph limit on Fishergate. At the outset the Police said they would not and could not enforce it and lo and behold it is widely ignored (even by the police passing through it I might add). If the limit is never going to be enforced it actually increases the risk to pedestrians not reduces it. If NYP wont enforce Fishergate, what on earth makes you think they can do it anywhere else inside the city walls? So while it is noble to want 20mph speed limits city wide it is completely pointless and a waste of money and everyone's time. It also increases traffic noise as below 30mph traffic noise is engine dominated and 20mph is actually louder than 30mph, noise levels then start to increase again after 30mph. lets not forget the practical issue that most motorbikes above 600cc are far less stable and safe at 20mph than they are at 30mph. So although as AndyD says your stated facts may be correct, your understanding of the issues and complexities associated with your proposition is clearly utterly lacking. So please stop trying to waste taxpayers money on a fruitless endeavour which will change nothing and move on to your next cause.

  Glad I'm on your side!

  Glad I'm not his history teacher. Although Mark Twain and others attribute the '**** lies' quote to Disraeli, the chap had been dead years before its emergence. Meanwhile - you run someone over at 20mph and they are significantly less deceased than if you hit them at 30mph. As Biologic would attribute Disraeli as saying - 'that is a whole lotta less dead, baby'. Reason in my humble opinion for implementing the law :-)

  You really don't read the things you comment on do you? I said that whilst mortality rates improve at 20mph there are a large number of reasons why trying to enshrine the principle in a city wide restriction will be ineffective. I then went on to outline those reasons. For the hard of reading then can be found detailed above. Anyone else that has got to this point will have understood already.
  
  When you have to resort to criticising someone's use of a quote generally attributed to Benjamin Disraeli as factually incorrect you lost the argument the moment you started."
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