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Starbucks kiosk at York Station to be removed (From York Press)
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Starbucks coffee kiosk at York Station to be removed
9:28am Tuesday 20th July 2010 in News
By Mike Laycock, Chief reporter
The Starbucks coffee shop at York Station
A STARBUCKS kiosk at York Station must be removed after a planning inspector ruled it spoiled the character of the historic former ticket hall.
Inspector Alan Novitzky upheld a listed building enforcement notice issued by City of York Council, which claimed the kiosk had been installed in contravention of planning legislation.
He said an appeal had been lodged against the notice, maintaining the kiosk was a free-standing structure which was not fixed to the building, and therefore did not form an alteration or extension to the Grade II* listed building.
The appeal also claimed the kiosk did not affect the listed building’s character or interfere with its features of special architectural or historic interest.
But the inspector said it made a “substantial intrusion” into the former ticket hall, which was a “symmetrical, classically contained space of carefully considered proportions, a transition space between the entrance portico and the railway concourse”.
He said: “The kiosk has a solid, heavy, four-square presence and a darkish appearance.”
He appreciated the usefulness of such customer facilities, but believed a less intrusive form might be more appropriate.
He also claimed the fact that a similar, unauthorised kiosk was in place before the present structure did not mitigate the harm and said the six months given for its removal it was an adequate length of time.
The council’s Labour group leader, Coun James Alexander, welcomed the decision, saying York was a very special place and its heritage must be protected. “It is what makes York special,” he said. “We can’t let large multi-national companies jeopardise this, as it means York will no longer be special. Fewer people will visit here and our economy will suffer.”
A spokesman for nationalised train operator East Coast, which is responsible for the station, said the kiosk had been introduced under the previous franchise operator. “East Coast will continue to discuss any further options with the council planners,” he said. “The facility has proven popular with customers at York.”
Comments(43)
J.D.
says...
9:33am Tue 20 Jul 10
Serioursly? Is this guy for real?
Unctuous
says...
9:43am Tue 20 Jul 10
.
Hope they don't shift the new pastie shop and its £1 bacon sarnies though.
TooRelaxed
says...
9:46am Tue 20 Jul 10
Good decision, planners. Shove off Starbucks, there's plenty of opportunity to buy your silly coffee all over York.
evelyn_trent
says...
9:51am Tue 20 Jul 10
peepod
says...
10:10am Tue 20 Jul 10
Macaco
says...
10:24am Tue 20 Jul 10
If a tiny starbucks unit at the station destroys the station historical feel what do all of the above mentioned do the city historical feel?
What about the own businesses that keep on shutting down imminently due to being overtaken by big end high street companies and enterprises?
Don't get me wrong, i rather have a cup of Nescafé at home instead of paying for an overpriced cappucino but the customer service in there is 5 stars compared to the other 2 SB in town center and so much better than 90% of the shops in town where i only get a tut, a sigh and dirty looks from the staff because they had to do what they're paid for.
There's more to worry about in York than a tiny outlet that stands at the corner of the station entrance...
bravo the brave
says...
11:15am Tue 20 Jul 10
peepod wrote:When first opened in 1877 York was the biggest station in the World, we thrive on history in this City, have some pride and ebjoy what we have to see.
It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.
robmins
says...
11:25am Tue 20 Jul 10
If there was a local business who could produce a high standard of coffees and teas, they should be allowed the opportunity to take the position opposite to "balance" the view of Mr Novitzky and Mr Alexander. Thus "greeting the fewer people who will visit here" with a good Yorkshire welcome.
Perhaps with a view to open commerce our economy will not suffer at all.
billy shears
says...
11:26am Tue 20 Jul 10
terranova
says...
11:32am Tue 20 Jul 10
evelyn_trent wrote:Couldn't agree more - don't like the look of the starbuks kiosk, but the station has been consistently ruined by susequent owners who have cared not a jot about thye nature of the building. Yes, we need information about delays, engineering works etc and we could do with more seating but be sensitive to the building - please.
Good. And perhaps they can get rid of all the other clutter that impedes movement in this busy and over-crowded area. Whose brainwave was it to introduce casual seating between the ticket office and the main southbound platform 4? And all those boards listing delays, refunds and works on the track - they're all in the way !
Woody Mellor
says...
11:36am Tue 20 Jul 10
Macaco wrote:It's not about the Starbucks kiosk ruining the 'look' of York, it's about it's location and setting that's important.
So lemme see, the historical city of York within the city walls contains overpriced nightclubs, 2 Starbucks, a handful of Subways, a countless ammount of high-street shops and outlets including Hmv, 2 New Looks, a HUGE boots, a TK Maxx on the way, a Pret a Manger that doesn't do much business, McDonnalds which sports a mob of questionable youths barricading the footpath and the list goes on...
If a tiny starbucks unit at the station destroys the station historical feel what do all of the above mentioned do the city historical feel?
What about the own businesses that keep on shutting down imminently due to being overtaken by big end high street companies and enterprises?
Don't get me wrong, i rather have a cup of Nescafé at home instead of paying for an overpriced cappucino but the customer service in there is 5 stars compared to the other 2 SB in town center and so much better than 90% of the shops in town where i only get a tut, a sigh and dirty looks from the staff because they had to do what they're paid for.
There's more to worry about in York than a tiny outlet that stands at the corner of the station entrance...
p.s. Carte-Noir me sen.
AngryandFrustrated
says...
11:54am Tue 20 Jul 10
billy shears wrote:That will never happen but you can apply for a "Bitecard" online which gives you 20% off everything sold by these overchargers at main line stations. It's free and it covers all the retailers with the exception of..................
This should be just the start. How about getting rid of the burger king at the station too, and all the other overpriced, corporate chains located there?
..... Starbucks so good riddance to them and their clutter!!
moneyforwhat
says...
12:19pm Tue 20 Jul 10
evelyn_trent
says...
12:22pm Tue 20 Jul 10
spiritofyork
says...
12:45pm Tue 20 Jul 10
Lizzie Browning
says...
12:59pm Tue 20 Jul 10
bravo the brave wrote:Agreed - its a beautiful building and one which I still find uplifting after all these years.
peepod wrote:When first opened in 1877 York was the biggest station in the World, we thrive on history in this City, have some pride and ebjoy what we have to see.
It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.
Not sure about Starbucks, I'd say what has been done outside the station is more architectural vandalism. All those signs, silly lanes and islands detract from what was designed as a grand open space to extenuate the magnificence of the station and hotel.
York isn't just a museum piece of course and I expect infra-structure modernization. Just think it could have been done better.
hifive
says...
1:23pm Tue 20 Jul 10
robmins wrote:Move to London then! Starbucks is over priced and tasteless - all grainy at the bottom and watery elswhere. Yuk! You have no taste. To call it essential is pathetic. Good riddance Starbucks - more independent coffee shops that don't rip off farmers please. The kiosk was oddly placed and I won't miss it.
What absolute rubbish. Starbucks serves a very important role in the start of the day for most commuters. I commute to London a number of times a week, and Stabucks is essential, rather than suffer other brands coffee on my long Journey. If there was a local business who could produce a high standard of coffees and teas, they should be allowed the opportunity to take the position opposite to "balance" the view of Mr Novitzky and Mr Alexander. Thus "greeting the fewer people who will visit here" with a good Yorkshire welcome. Perhaps with a view to open commerce our economy will not suffer at all.
Guy Fawkes
says...
1:34pm Tue 20 Jul 10
We can’t let large multi-national companies jeopardise this...
...said the planning inspector. In other words, it's not protecting the look of a historical building that he's really interested in, but rather imposing his own political views about big business on the residents of and visitors to York, by taking a shot at Starbucks. The flower stall in the middle of the entrance hall is far more obstructive and intrusive than the Starbucks one, but I note that he hasn't told them to bog off.
Historical buildings will only survive and be relevant if either people are willing to keep them in a timewarp and used only as a museum, or if they are adapted to modern use. The station was built in the 1840s, and the usage demanded of it is very different now to what it was then. If the Starbucks stall is a temporary structure that is not irreversibly changing the fabric of the building and is not causing a health and safety problem, then there can be no practical justification for ordering its removal - only a political and an ideological one. As an earlier contributor pointed out, the fast food chains have gutted and refitted the interiors of many buildings in the city centre, making changes to them that would be far more difficult and expensive to undo than simply packing up and removing a glorified tent. But the planning authorities had no problem with that.
intelligentviews
says...
2:17pm Tue 20 Jul 10
TooRelaxed
says...
2:37pm Tue 20 Jul 10
.
As for Guy Fawkes point, yep, fair enough. If it was a political and ideological decision then fair play to em. Nice one. It's not like it's a bad decision is it? It's not like they've banned dark skin from the concourse or enforced the wearing of beards. It's not an arbitrary decision.
.
Anyway, perhaps the planners weren't making such a political decision, perhaps they just wanted to make a decision based on rules and correct procedure? Y'know, to reinforce the idea that you can't just steam in without permission and then expect to get it because you've got some corporate clout? No organisation likes their rules to be walked all over.
Big business itself isn't the problem, but big business that thinks it can do whatever the h3ll it wants certainly is.
Lizzie Browning
says...
3:24pm Tue 20 Jul 10
See - no respect for our history, no wonder you revere Starbucks! <Joking>
Guy Fawkes
says...
4:13pm Tue 20 Jul 10
As for my revering Starbucks, quite the opposite: their coffee tastes like salt has been added to it, usually leaves me with a migraine and is something I avoid unless I cannot get a caffeine fix from anywhere else. However, I am opposed on principle to stopping people from doing business - even Starbucks - unless that business represents a major threat to the public interest (I would guess that two or three jobs will be lost when that stall closes). As Macaco points out, McVomit's, umpteen sandwich chain outlets and even Star*ucks themselves all occupy the ground floors of listed buildings in the city centres, having first torn the interiors out and relined them with identikit plastic fittings in many cases: yet CoYC isn't giving them the boot.
MissConstrood
says...
4:25pm Tue 20 Jul 10
pedalling paul
says...
4:31pm Tue 20 Jul 10
King Edward
says...
5:08pm Tue 20 Jul 10
sadfaz
says...
5:29pm Tue 20 Jul 10
gmsgop
says...
5:29pm Tue 20 Jul 10
leninwasright
says...
5:35pm Tue 20 Jul 10
peepod wrote:Still the finest station building outside London and still one of the finest in Europe, including all the Paris termini. It isn't dirty but does have one or two excrescences (or rather increscences ) like the ATM block which need moving. It does need another crossing point with escalators but on the other hand has two tunnels with lifts. The platforms sparkle. The only other thing missing is that wonderful sexy voice which used to announce "This is York, This is York". As for Starbucks, it isn't even drinkable in the States and they always provide it in sizes beginning with Dustbin, presumably to get rid of as much as possible.
It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.
leninwasright
says...
5:43pm Tue 20 Jul 10
Macaco wrote:The nice thing about York is that it is a working city and not a museum. If you want a Hanzel und Gretel walled city experience go to Rothenburg ob der Tauber or Carcassonne. York has to cater for shoppers who want TK Maxx and Macdonalds and also visitors who want the walls, Minster and mediaeval streets. Generally it does this pretty well.
So lemme see, the historical city of York within the city walls contains overpriced nightclubs, 2 Starbucks, a handful of Subways, a countless ammount of high-street shops and outlets including Hmv, 2 New Looks, a HUGE boots, a TK Maxx on the way, a Pret a Manger that doesn't do much business, McDonnalds which sports a mob of questionable youths barricading the footpath and the list goes on... If a tiny starbucks unit at the station destroys the station historical feel what do all of the above mentioned do the city historical feel? What about the own businesses that keep on shutting down imminently due to being overtaken by big end high street companies and enterprises? Don't get me wrong, i rather have a cup of Nescafé at home instead of paying for an overpriced cappucino but the customer service in there is 5 stars compared to the other 2 SB in town center and so much better than 90% of the shops in town where i only get a tut, a sigh and dirty looks from the staff because they had to do what they're paid for. There's more to worry about in York than a tiny outlet that stands at the corner of the station entrance...
Woody Mellor
says...
6:24pm Tue 20 Jul 10
JohnnyByrne
says...
6:27pm Tue 20 Jul 10
guitarfriend
says...
6:39pm Tue 20 Jul 10
SensibleSimon
says...
6:52pm Tue 20 Jul 10
I'm personally more bothered by the lack of bins. I hate to litter, but don't always have a spare 3 hands to carry a load of rubbish around. Are there really that many people hanging around to put bombs in bins?
Lizzie Browning
says...
7:32pm Tue 20 Jul 10
SensibleSimon
says...
11:12pm Tue 20 Jul 10
We have speed bumps because the
minority morons can't be sensible, and the majority are punished for something they'll never do. Meanwhile the morons will still speed and go bouncing over the bumps.
We have to strip naked to go on an airplane because one in 100 million might try and kill us... It's not fair on the law abiding majority. What's wrong with a bit of racial profiling!? (sarcasm)
When York station had bins, did a bomb ever go off in one? Not to belittle the suffering of anyone involved in such tragic events.... but if we change everything about our world just in case one in a million happens.... they've won. There needs to be another way. Or just keep going the best you can, and don't let the bas****s win! We give up too much.
Anyway, that's just me. By the way, my names not Simon. ;)
TooRelaxed
says...
12:17am Wed 21 Jul 10
Guy Fawkes
says...
1:16am Wed 21 Jul 10
cliftongirl
says...
1:53am Wed 21 Jul 10
Plus I like the frappes.
peepod
says...
9:34am Wed 21 Jul 10
leninwasright wrote:Don't get me wrong, York station is a grand building and has historical merits for York and for England. But, I use this station everyday and looking around it does need some TLC to bring it up to scratch. And, as for Starbucks, I prefer Costa coffee myself but you can't stand in the way of progress, Starbucks as a business has done very well, people like it and buy it. York needs to serve the residents and tourists here in the 21st century. Old has to mix with new in order for York to sustain economic viability for the future.
peepod wrote:Still the finest station building outside London and still one of the finest in Europe, including all the Paris termini. It isn't dirty but does have one or two excrescences (or rather increscences ) like the ATM block which need moving. It does need another crossing point with escalators but on the other hand has two tunnels with lifts. The platforms sparkle. The only other thing missing is that wonderful sexy voice which used to announce "This is York, This is York". As for Starbucks, it isn't even drinkable in the States and they always provide it in sizes beginning with Dustbin, presumably to get rid of as much as possible.
It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.
Eric Style
says...
1:29pm Wed 21 Jul 10
I thought that the station was to be redeveloped anyway to provide more shops?
deathwatch
says...
10:52am Thu 22 Jul 10
Eric Style wrote:"What about the dated bar that is in the station? That sign in the background is more of an eyesore. I'm sad, no more lemon muffins for breakfast!
What about the dated bar that is in the station? That sign in the background is more of an eyesore. I'm sad, no more lemon muffins for breakfast!
I thought that the station was to be redeveloped anyway to provide more shops?
I thought that the station was to be redeveloped anyway to provide more shops?"
IT'S A TRAIN STATION - NOT A SHOPPING CENTRE, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!
MattRSJ
says...
2:34pm Sat 24 Jul 10
spiritofyork says...
9:32am Tue 20 Jul 10