Starbucks coffee kiosk at York Station to be removed

York Press: The Starbucks coffee  shop at York Station The Starbucks coffee shop at York Station

A STARBUCKS kiosk at York Station must be removed after a planning inspector ruled it spoiled the character of the historic former ticket hall.

Inspector Alan Novitzky upheld a listed building enforcement notice issued by City of York Council, which claimed the kiosk had been installed in contravention of planning legislation.

He said an appeal had been lodged against the notice, maintaining the kiosk was a free-standing structure which was not fixed to the building, and therefore did not form an alteration or extension to the Grade II* listed building.

The appeal also claimed the kiosk did not affect the listed building’s character or interfere with its features of special architectural or historic interest.

But the inspector said it made a “substantial intrusion” into the former ticket hall, which was a “symmetrical, classically contained space of carefully considered proportions, a transition space between the entrance portico and the railway concourse”.

He said: “The kiosk has a solid, heavy, four-square presence and a darkish appearance.”

He appreciated the usefulness of such customer facilities, but believed a less intrusive form might be more appropriate.

He also claimed the fact that a similar, unauthorised kiosk was in place before the present structure did not mitigate the harm and said the six months given for its removal it was an adequate length of time.

The council’s Labour group leader, Coun James Alexander, welcomed the decision, saying York was a very special place and its heritage must be protected. “It is what makes York special,” he said. “We can’t let large multi-national companies jeopardise this, as it means York will no longer be special. Fewer people will visit here and our economy will suffer.”

A spokesman for nationalised train operator East Coast, which is responsible for the station, said the kiosk had been introduced under the previous franchise operator. “East Coast will continue to discuss any further options with the council planners,” he said. “The facility has proven popular with customers at York.”

Comments (43)

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9:32am Tue 20 Jul 10

spiritofyork says...

Only Starbucks and it's unfettered capitalism has the power and audacity to ignore regulation and build a coffee shop here when it wasn't supposed to. I'm glad it's been removed. Best news of the day. Bye bye S***bucks
Only Starbucks and it's unfettered capitalism has the power and audacity to ignore regulation and build a coffee shop here when it wasn't supposed to. I'm glad it's been removed. Best news of the day. Bye bye S***bucks spiritofyork

9:33am Tue 20 Jul 10

J.D. says...

But the inspector said it made a “substantial intrusion” into the former ticket hall, which was a “symmetrical, classically contained space of carefully considered proportions, a transition space between the entrance portico and the railway concourse”.

Serioursly? Is this guy for real?
But the inspector said it made a “substantial intrusion” into the former ticket hall, which was a “symmetrical, classically contained space of carefully considered proportions, a transition space between the entrance portico and the railway concourse”. Serioursly? Is this guy for real? J.D.

9:43am Tue 20 Jul 10

Unctuous says...

It did look out of place and I'm glad it's going.
.
Hope they don't shift the new pastie shop and its £1 bacon sarnies though.
It did look out of place and I'm glad it's going. . Hope they don't shift the new pastie shop and its £1 bacon sarnies though. Unctuous

9:46am Tue 20 Jul 10

TooRelaxed says...

The arrogance of corporations that believe they can just do what the h3ll they want regardless of the law.
Good decision, planners. Shove off Starbucks, there's plenty of opportunity to buy your silly coffee all over York.
The arrogance of corporations that believe they can just do what the h3ll they want regardless of the law. Good decision, planners. Shove off Starbucks, there's plenty of opportunity to buy your silly coffee all over York. TooRelaxed

9:51am Tue 20 Jul 10

evelyn_trent says...

Good. And perhaps they can get rid of all the other clutter that impedes movement in this busy and over-crowded area. Whose brainwave was it to introduce casual seating between the ticket office and the main southbound platform 4? And all those boards listing delays, refunds and works on the track - they're all in the way !
Good. And perhaps they can get rid of all the other clutter that impedes movement in this busy and over-crowded area. Whose brainwave was it to introduce casual seating between the ticket office and the main southbound platform 4? And all those boards listing delays, refunds and works on the track - they're all in the way ! evelyn_trent

10:10am Tue 20 Jul 10

peepod says...

It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.
It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch. peepod

10:24am Tue 20 Jul 10

Macaco says...

So lemme see, the historical city of York within the city walls contains overpriced nightclubs, 2 Starbucks, a handful of Subways, a countless ammount of high-street shops and outlets including Hmv, 2 New Looks, a HUGE boots, a TK Maxx on the way, a Pret a Manger that doesn't do much business, McDonnalds which sports a mob of questionable youths barricading the footpath and the list goes on...
If a tiny starbucks unit at the station destroys the station historical feel what do all of the above mentioned do the city historical feel?
What about the own businesses that keep on shutting down imminently due to being overtaken by big end high street companies and enterprises?
Don't get me wrong, i rather have a cup of Nescafé at home instead of paying for an overpriced cappucino but the customer service in there is 5 stars compared to the other 2 SB in town center and so much better than 90% of the shops in town where i only get a tut, a sigh and dirty looks from the staff because they had to do what they're paid for.
There's more to worry about in York than a tiny outlet that stands at the corner of the station entrance...
So lemme see, the historical city of York within the city walls contains overpriced nightclubs, 2 Starbucks, a handful of Subways, a countless ammount of high-street shops and outlets including Hmv, 2 New Looks, a HUGE boots, a TK Maxx on the way, a Pret a Manger that doesn't do much business, McDonnalds which sports a mob of questionable youths barricading the footpath and the list goes on... If a tiny starbucks unit at the station destroys the station historical feel what do all of the above mentioned do the city historical feel? What about the own businesses that keep on shutting down imminently due to being overtaken by big end high street companies and enterprises? Don't get me wrong, i rather have a cup of Nescafé at home instead of paying for an overpriced cappucino but the customer service in there is 5 stars compared to the other 2 SB in town center and so much better than 90% of the shops in town where i only get a tut, a sigh and dirty looks from the staff because they had to do what they're paid for. There's more to worry about in York than a tiny outlet that stands at the corner of the station entrance... Macaco

11:15am Tue 20 Jul 10

bravo the brave says...

peepod wrote:
It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.
When first opened in 1877 York was the biggest station in the World, we thrive on history in this City, have some pride and ebjoy what we have to see.
[quote][p][bold]peepod[/bold] wrote: It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.[/p][/quote]When first opened in 1877 York was the biggest station in the World, we thrive on history in this City, have some pride and ebjoy what we have to see. bravo the brave

11:25am Tue 20 Jul 10

robmins says...

What absolute rubbish. Starbucks serves a very important role in the start of the day for most commuters. I commute to London a number of times a week, and Stabucks is essential, rather than suffer other brands coffee on my long Journey.

If there was a local business who could produce a high standard of coffees and teas, they should be allowed the opportunity to take the position opposite to "balance" the view of Mr Novitzky and Mr Alexander. Thus "greeting the fewer people who will visit here" with a good Yorkshire welcome.

Perhaps with a view to open commerce our economy will not suffer at all.
What absolute rubbish. Starbucks serves a very important role in the start of the day for most commuters. I commute to London a number of times a week, and Stabucks is essential, rather than suffer other brands coffee on my long Journey. If there was a local business who could produce a high standard of coffees and teas, they should be allowed the opportunity to take the position opposite to "balance" the view of Mr Novitzky and Mr Alexander. Thus "greeting the fewer people who will visit here" with a good Yorkshire welcome. Perhaps with a view to open commerce our economy will not suffer at all. robmins

11:26am Tue 20 Jul 10

billy shears says...

This should be just the start. How about getting rid of the burger king at the station too, and all the other overpriced, corporate chains located there?
This should be just the start. How about getting rid of the burger king at the station too, and all the other overpriced, corporate chains located there? billy shears

11:32am Tue 20 Jul 10

terranova says...

evelyn_trent wrote:
Good. And perhaps they can get rid of all the other clutter that impedes movement in this busy and over-crowded area. Whose brainwave was it to introduce casual seating between the ticket office and the main southbound platform 4? And all those boards listing delays, refunds and works on the track - they're all in the way !
Couldn't agree more - don't like the look of the starbuks kiosk, but the station has been consistently ruined by susequent owners who have cared not a jot about thye nature of the building. Yes, we need information about delays, engineering works etc and we could do with more seating but be sensitive to the building - please.
[quote][p][bold]evelyn_trent[/bold] wrote: Good. And perhaps they can get rid of all the other clutter that impedes movement in this busy and over-crowded area. Whose brainwave was it to introduce casual seating between the ticket office and the main southbound platform 4? And all those boards listing delays, refunds and works on the track - they're all in the way ![/p][/quote]Couldn't agree more - don't like the look of the starbuks kiosk, but the station has been consistently ruined by susequent owners who have cared not a jot about thye nature of the building. Yes, we need information about delays, engineering works etc and we could do with more seating but be sensitive to the building - please. terranova

11:36am Tue 20 Jul 10

Woody Mellor says...

Macaco wrote:
So lemme see, the historical city of York within the city walls contains overpriced nightclubs, 2 Starbucks, a handful of Subways, a countless ammount of high-street shops and outlets including Hmv, 2 New Looks, a HUGE boots, a TK Maxx on the way, a Pret a Manger that doesn't do much business, McDonnalds which sports a mob of questionable youths barricading the footpath and the list goes on...
If a tiny starbucks unit at the station destroys the station historical feel what do all of the above mentioned do the city historical feel?
What about the own businesses that keep on shutting down imminently due to being overtaken by big end high street companies and enterprises?
Don't get me wrong, i rather have a cup of Nescafé at home instead of paying for an overpriced cappucino but the customer service in there is 5 stars compared to the other 2 SB in town center and so much better than 90% of the shops in town where i only get a tut, a sigh and dirty looks from the staff because they had to do what they're paid for.
There's more to worry about in York than a tiny outlet that stands at the corner of the station entrance...
It's not about the Starbucks kiosk ruining the 'look' of York, it's about it's location and setting that's important.
p.s. Carte-Noir me sen.
[quote][p][bold]Macaco[/bold] wrote: So lemme see, the historical city of York within the city walls contains overpriced nightclubs, 2 Starbucks, a handful of Subways, a countless ammount of high-street shops and outlets including Hmv, 2 New Looks, a HUGE boots, a TK Maxx on the way, a Pret a Manger that doesn't do much business, McDonnalds which sports a mob of questionable youths barricading the footpath and the list goes on... If a tiny starbucks unit at the station destroys the station historical feel what do all of the above mentioned do the city historical feel? What about the own businesses that keep on shutting down imminently due to being overtaken by big end high street companies and enterprises? Don't get me wrong, i rather have a cup of Nescafé at home instead of paying for an overpriced cappucino but the customer service in there is 5 stars compared to the other 2 SB in town center and so much better than 90% of the shops in town where i only get a tut, a sigh and dirty looks from the staff because they had to do what they're paid for. There's more to worry about in York than a tiny outlet that stands at the corner of the station entrance...[/p][/quote]It's not about the Starbucks kiosk ruining the 'look' of York, it's about it's location and setting that's important. p.s. Carte-Noir me sen. Woody Mellor

11:54am Tue 20 Jul 10

AngryandFrustrated says...

billy shears wrote:
This should be just the start. How about getting rid of the burger king at the station too, and all the other overpriced, corporate chains located there?
That will never happen but you can apply for a "Bitecard" online which gives you 20% off everything sold by these overchargers at main line stations. It's free and it covers all the retailers with the exception of..................
..... Starbucks so good riddance to them and their clutter!!
[quote][p][bold]billy shears[/bold] wrote: This should be just the start. How about getting rid of the burger king at the station too, and all the other overpriced, corporate chains located there?[/p][/quote]That will never happen but you can apply for a "Bitecard" online which gives you 20% off everything sold by these overchargers at main line stations. It's free and it covers all the retailers with the exception of.................. ..... Starbucks so good riddance to them and their clutter!! AngryandFrustrated

12:19pm Tue 20 Jul 10

moneyforwhat says...

so York is special....what precisely is special about it? And why has it just been remembered? It has the potential to be truly superb. This is unlikely to happen unless there is a radical re-think, which will be complex as York is small and it is difficult to fit modern living into small spaces to accommodate the needs of the residents as well as those of the visitor. York is a jewel waiting to be cut. It has suffered some indignities in recent times with some bad decision making, so quite how it may be restored back to the thriving place it once was will be an onerous task and that is without the current financial constraints. I don't feel I may comment on the Starbucks kiosk as such...it may provide what a lot of people prefer. I'm one of the 'rather have a cup at home brigade' as coffees and such are an expense I manage without. But that's just me. Ethically Starbucks may be frowned upon by many, but it appears not to affect their popularity. Regarding the appearance of the station....it would be wonderful to see it and know that it may function with it's old style appearance and heritage. I think that needs to start outside the station as you are prepared for clutter inside as there is so much clutter outside and that includes all the bizarre road markings which look like a childrens playground. Hopscotch anyone?
so York is special....what precisely is special about it? And why has it just been remembered? It has the potential to be truly superb. This is unlikely to happen unless there is a radical re-think, which will be complex as York is small and it is difficult to fit modern living into small spaces to accommodate the needs of the residents as well as those of the visitor. York is a jewel waiting to be cut. It has suffered some indignities in recent times with some bad decision making, so quite how it may be restored back to the thriving place it once was will be an onerous task and that is without the current financial constraints. I don't feel I may comment on the Starbucks kiosk as such...it may provide what a lot of people prefer. I'm one of the 'rather have a cup at home brigade' as coffees and such are an expense I manage without. But that's just me. Ethically Starbucks may be frowned upon by many, but it appears not to affect their popularity. Regarding the appearance of the station....it would be wonderful to see it and know that it may function with it's old style appearance and heritage. I think that needs to start outside the station as you are prepared for clutter inside as there is so much clutter outside and that includes all the bizarre road markings which look like a childrens playground. Hopscotch anyone? moneyforwhat

12:22pm Tue 20 Jul 10

evelyn_trent says...

Of course, a pithier headline to this piece could have read "Coffee To Go"...
Of course, a pithier headline to this piece could have read "Coffee To Go"... evelyn_trent

12:45pm Tue 20 Jul 10

spiritofyork says...

Starbucks isn't essential and anyone with a sense of ethicc would avoid this chain like the plague. Ironically it always seems to be alternative student types who are seen with the typical green logo in their grasp. Those and the businessmen/women who quite rightly couldn't give a monkey's about ethics, so long as money is being made.
Starbucks isn't essential and anyone with a sense of ethicc would avoid this chain like the plague. Ironically it always seems to be alternative student types who are seen with the typical green logo in their grasp. Those and the businessmen/women who quite rightly couldn't give a monkey's about ethics, so long as money is being made. spiritofyork

12:59pm Tue 20 Jul 10

Lizzie Browning says...

bravo the brave wrote:
peepod wrote:
It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.
When first opened in 1877 York was the biggest station in the World, we thrive on history in this City, have some pride and ebjoy what we have to see.
Agreed - its a beautiful building and one which I still find uplifting after all these years.
Not sure about Starbucks, I'd say what has been done outside the station is more architectural vandalism. All those signs, silly lanes and islands detract from what was designed as a grand open space to extenuate the magnificence of the station and hotel.
York isn't just a museum piece of course and I expect infra-structure modernization. Just think it could have been done better.
[quote][p][bold]bravo the brave[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]peepod[/bold] wrote: It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.[/p][/quote]When first opened in 1877 York was the biggest station in the World, we thrive on history in this City, have some pride and ebjoy what we have to see.[/p][/quote]Agreed - its a beautiful building and one which I still find uplifting after all these years. Not sure about Starbucks, I'd say what has been done outside the station is more architectural vandalism. All those signs, silly lanes and islands detract from what was designed as a grand open space to extenuate the magnificence of the station and hotel. York isn't just a museum piece of course and I expect infra-structure modernization. Just think it could have been done better. Lizzie Browning

1:23pm Tue 20 Jul 10

hifive says...

robmins wrote:
What absolute rubbish. Starbucks serves a very important role in the start of the day for most commuters. I commute to London a number of times a week, and Stabucks is essential, rather than suffer other brands coffee on my long Journey. If there was a local business who could produce a high standard of coffees and teas, they should be allowed the opportunity to take the position opposite to "balance" the view of Mr Novitzky and Mr Alexander. Thus "greeting the fewer people who will visit here" with a good Yorkshire welcome. Perhaps with a view to open commerce our economy will not suffer at all.
Move to London then! Starbucks is over priced and tasteless - all grainy at the bottom and watery elswhere. Yuk! You have no taste. To call it essential is pathetic. Good riddance Starbucks - more independent coffee shops that don't rip off farmers please. The kiosk was oddly placed and I won't miss it.
[quote][p][bold]robmins[/bold] wrote: What absolute rubbish. Starbucks serves a very important role in the start of the day for most commuters. I commute to London a number of times a week, and Stabucks is essential, rather than suffer other brands coffee on my long Journey. If there was a local business who could produce a high standard of coffees and teas, they should be allowed the opportunity to take the position opposite to "balance" the view of Mr Novitzky and Mr Alexander. Thus "greeting the fewer people who will visit here" with a good Yorkshire welcome. Perhaps with a view to open commerce our economy will not suffer at all.[/p][/quote]Move to London then! Starbucks is over priced and tasteless - all grainy at the bottom and watery elswhere. Yuk! You have no taste. To call it essential is pathetic. Good riddance Starbucks - more independent coffee shops that don't rip off farmers please. The kiosk was oddly placed and I won't miss it. hifive

1:34pm Tue 20 Jul 10

Guy Fawkes says...

We can’t let large multi-national companies jeopardise this...


...said the planning inspector. In other words, it's not protecting the look of a historical building that he's really interested in, but rather imposing his own political views about big business on the residents of and visitors to York, by taking a shot at Starbucks. The flower stall in the middle of the entrance hall is far more obstructive and intrusive than the Starbucks one, but I note that he hasn't told them to bog off.

Historical buildings will only survive and be relevant if either people are willing to keep them in a timewarp and used only as a museum, or if they are adapted to modern use. The station was built in the 1840s, and the usage demanded of it is very different now to what it was then. If the Starbucks stall is a temporary structure that is not irreversibly changing the fabric of the building and is not causing a health and safety problem, then there can be no practical justification for ordering its removal - only a political and an ideological one. As an earlier contributor pointed out, the fast food chains have gutted and refitted the interiors of many buildings in the city centre, making changes to them that would be far more difficult and expensive to undo than simply packing up and removing a glorified tent. But the planning authorities had no problem with that.
[quote]We can’t let large multi-national companies jeopardise this...[/quote] ...said the planning inspector. In other words, it's not protecting the look of a historical building that he's really interested in, but rather imposing his own political views about big business on the residents of and visitors to York, by taking a shot at Starbucks. The flower stall in the middle of the entrance hall is far more obstructive and intrusive than the Starbucks one, but I note that he hasn't told them to bog off. Historical buildings will only survive and be relevant if either people are willing to keep them in a timewarp and used only as a museum, or if they are adapted to modern use. The station was built in the 1840s, and the usage demanded of it is very different now to what it was then. If the Starbucks stall is a temporary structure that is not irreversibly changing the fabric of the building and is not causing a health and safety problem, then there can be no practical justification for ordering its removal - only a political and an ideological one. As an earlier contributor pointed out, the fast food chains have gutted and refitted the interiors of many buildings in the city centre, making changes to them that would be far more difficult and expensive to undo than simply packing up and removing a glorified tent. But the planning authorities had no problem with that. Guy Fawkes

2:17pm Tue 20 Jul 10

intelligentviews says...

The station should be shown off to its best and tacky looking branded outlets are out of kilter. Get rid, please.
The station should be shown off to its best and tacky looking branded outlets are out of kilter. Get rid, please. intelligentviews

2:37pm Tue 20 Jul 10

TooRelaxed says...

Anyone who deems a Starbucks "essential" has been taken in hook, line and sinker. Enjoy your servitude.
.
As for Guy Fawkes point, yep, fair enough. If it was a political and ideological decision then fair play to em. Nice one. It's not like it's a bad decision is it? It's not like they've banned dark skin from the concourse or enforced the wearing of beards. It's not an arbitrary decision.
.
Anyway, perhaps the planners weren't making such a political decision, perhaps they just wanted to make a decision based on rules and correct procedure? Y'know, to reinforce the idea that you can't just steam in without permission and then expect to get it because you've got some corporate clout? No organisation likes their rules to be walked all over.
Big business itself isn't the problem, but big business that thinks it can do whatever the h3ll it wants certainly is.
Anyone who deems a Starbucks "essential" has been taken in hook, line and sinker. Enjoy your servitude. . As for Guy Fawkes point, yep, fair enough. If it was a political and ideological decision then fair play to em. Nice one. It's not like it's a bad decision is it? It's not like they've banned dark skin from the concourse or enforced the wearing of beards. It's not an arbitrary decision. . Anyway, perhaps the planners weren't making such a political decision, perhaps they just wanted to make a decision based on rules and correct procedure? Y'know, to reinforce the idea that you can't just steam in without permission and then expect to get it because you've got some corporate clout? No organisation likes their rules to be walked all over. Big business itself isn't the problem, but big business that thinks it can do whatever the h3ll it wants certainly is. TooRelaxed

3:24pm Tue 20 Jul 10

Lizzie Browning says...

Guy Fawkes - the present York station was opened in 1877, the previous one (finished in 1841) was on the site within the bar walls now occupied by the railway offices.
See - no respect for our history, no wonder you revere Starbucks! <Joking>
Guy Fawkes - the present York station was opened in 1877, the previous one (finished in 1841) was on the site within the bar walls now occupied by the railway offices. See - no respect for our history, no wonder you revere Starbucks! Lizzie Browning

4:13pm Tue 20 Jul 10

Guy Fawkes says...

Thanks for the correction, Lizzie. So in 1877, archetypal Victorian capitalist pragmatism determined that the 1841 station was no longer fit for purpose, and it was pulled down and replaced. Perhaps that might be an alternative to the regular, very costly refurbishment and maintenance of the current structure? <also joking>
As for my revering Starbucks, quite the opposite: their coffee tastes like salt has been added to it, usually leaves me with a migraine and is something I avoid unless I cannot get a caffeine fix from anywhere else. However, I am opposed on principle to stopping people from doing business - even Starbucks - unless that business represents a major threat to the public interest (I would guess that two or three jobs will be lost when that stall closes). As Macaco points out, McVomit's, umpteen sandwich chain outlets and even Star*ucks themselves all occupy the ground floors of listed buildings in the city centres, having first torn the interiors out and relined them with identikit plastic fittings in many cases: yet CoYC isn't giving them the boot.
Thanks for the correction, Lizzie. So in 1877, archetypal Victorian capitalist pragmatism determined that the 1841 station was no longer fit for purpose, and it was pulled down and replaced. Perhaps that might be an alternative to the regular, very costly refurbishment and maintenance of the current structure? As for my revering Starbucks, quite the opposite: their coffee tastes like salt has been added to it, usually leaves me with a migraine and is something I avoid unless I cannot get a caffeine fix from anywhere else. However, I am opposed on principle to stopping people from doing business - even Starbucks - unless that business represents a major threat to the public interest (I would guess that two or three jobs will be lost when that stall closes). As Macaco points out, McVomit's, umpteen sandwich chain outlets and even Star*ucks themselves all occupy the ground floors of listed buildings in the city centres, having first torn the interiors out and relined them with identikit plastic fittings in many cases: yet CoYC isn't giving them the boot. Guy Fawkes

4:25pm Tue 20 Jul 10

MissConstrood says...

.........maybe if the rent wasnt in excess of £30 000 per annum for the little kiosks, local people could set up business and afford to make it look in keeping with the regulations?
.........maybe if the rent wasnt in excess of £30 000 per annum for the little kiosks, local people could set up business and afford to make it look in keeping with the regulations? MissConstrood

4:31pm Tue 20 Jul 10

pedalling paul says...

......bring back the British Rail sarnie......!
......bring back the British Rail sarnie......! pedalling paul

5:08pm Tue 20 Jul 10

King Edward says...

... and they wonder why we have empty shops... What next markets spoiling the backdrop of Parliament Street? It's high time Mr Alexander found something positive to say about York, otherwise he'll find himself unelected next election(again!).
... and they wonder why we have empty shops... What next markets spoiling the backdrop of Parliament Street? It's high time Mr Alexander found something positive to say about York, otherwise he'll find himself unelected next election(again!). King Edward

5:29pm Tue 20 Jul 10

sadfaz says...

Can't believe that this story has so many comments,jog on ....
Can't believe that this story has so many comments,jog on .... sadfaz

5:29pm Tue 20 Jul 10

gmsgop says...

For those in any doubt about the merits of Starbucks coffee... on the way to the station, drop by Declare's on Lendel- now there you will find a great cup of coffee at a great price too!!
For those in any doubt about the merits of Starbucks coffee... on the way to the station, drop by Declare's on Lendel- now there you will find a great cup of coffee at a great price too!! gmsgop

5:35pm Tue 20 Jul 10

leninwasright says...

peepod wrote:
It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.
Still the finest station building outside London and still one of the finest in Europe, including all the Paris termini. It isn't dirty but does have one or two excrescences (or rather increscences ) like the ATM block which need moving. It does need another crossing point with escalators but on the other hand has two tunnels with lifts. The platforms sparkle. The only other thing missing is that wonderful sexy voice which used to announce "This is York, This is York". As for Starbucks, it isn't even drinkable in the States and they always provide it in sizes beginning with Dustbin, presumably to get rid of as much as possible.
[quote][p][bold]peepod[/bold] wrote: It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.[/p][/quote]Still the finest station building outside London and still one of the finest in Europe, including all the Paris termini. It isn't dirty but does have one or two excrescences (or rather increscences [!]) like the ATM block which need moving. It does need another crossing point with escalators but on the other hand has two tunnels with lifts. The platforms sparkle. The only other thing missing is that wonderful sexy voice which used to announce "This is York, This is York". As for Starbucks, it isn't even drinkable in the States and they always provide it in sizes beginning with Dustbin, presumably to get rid of as much as possible. leninwasright

5:43pm Tue 20 Jul 10

leninwasright says...

Macaco wrote:
So lemme see, the historical city of York within the city walls contains overpriced nightclubs, 2 Starbucks, a handful of Subways, a countless ammount of high-street shops and outlets including Hmv, 2 New Looks, a HUGE boots, a TK Maxx on the way, a Pret a Manger that doesn't do much business, McDonnalds which sports a mob of questionable youths barricading the footpath and the list goes on... If a tiny starbucks unit at the station destroys the station historical feel what do all of the above mentioned do the city historical feel? What about the own businesses that keep on shutting down imminently due to being overtaken by big end high street companies and enterprises? Don't get me wrong, i rather have a cup of Nescafé at home instead of paying for an overpriced cappucino but the customer service in there is 5 stars compared to the other 2 SB in town center and so much better than 90% of the shops in town where i only get a tut, a sigh and dirty looks from the staff because they had to do what they're paid for. There's more to worry about in York than a tiny outlet that stands at the corner of the station entrance...
The nice thing about York is that it is a working city and not a museum. If you want a Hanzel und Gretel walled city experience go to Rothenburg ob der Tauber or Carcassonne. York has to cater for shoppers who want TK Maxx and Macdonalds and also visitors who want the walls, Minster and mediaeval streets. Generally it does this pretty well.
[quote][p][bold]Macaco[/bold] wrote: So lemme see, the historical city of York within the city walls contains overpriced nightclubs, 2 Starbucks, a handful of Subways, a countless ammount of high-street shops and outlets including Hmv, 2 New Looks, a HUGE boots, a TK Maxx on the way, a Pret a Manger that doesn't do much business, McDonnalds which sports a mob of questionable youths barricading the footpath and the list goes on... If a tiny starbucks unit at the station destroys the station historical feel what do all of the above mentioned do the city historical feel? What about the own businesses that keep on shutting down imminently due to being overtaken by big end high street companies and enterprises? Don't get me wrong, i rather have a cup of Nescafé at home instead of paying for an overpriced cappucino but the customer service in there is 5 stars compared to the other 2 SB in town center and so much better than 90% of the shops in town where i only get a tut, a sigh and dirty looks from the staff because they had to do what they're paid for. There's more to worry about in York than a tiny outlet that stands at the corner of the station entrance...[/p][/quote]The nice thing about York is that it is a working city and not a museum. If you want a Hanzel und Gretel walled city experience go to Rothenburg ob der Tauber or Carcassonne. York has to cater for shoppers who want TK Maxx and Macdonalds and also visitors who want the walls, Minster and mediaeval streets. Generally it does this pretty well. leninwasright

6:24pm Tue 20 Jul 10

Woody Mellor says...

Seeing as we're on the subject of coffee, Pret a manger's Latte gets my vote, sorry it's a big chain.
Seeing as we're on the subject of coffee, Pret a manger's Latte gets my vote, sorry it's a big chain. Woody Mellor

6:27pm Tue 20 Jul 10

JohnnyByrne says...

OMG!!! Its a coffee shop in a station FFS!! So what!. You lot need to get out more or apply for a full time carer!!
OMG!!! Its a coffee shop in a station FFS!! So what!. You lot need to get out more or apply for a full time carer!! JohnnyByrne

6:39pm Tue 20 Jul 10

guitarfriend says...

I think what is more interesting is that I met a really nice couple recently from Wahington DC - they loved York but were really disapointed that in the middle of summer everything except pubs appeared to have shut at 5pm so they headed off to Manchester instead of staying- tourist city - no decent evening economy catering for anyone other than lager louts and hen night clubbers - its a real missed opportunity!
I think what is more interesting is that I met a really nice couple recently from Wahington DC - they loved York but were really disapointed that in the middle of summer everything except pubs appeared to have shut at 5pm so they headed off to Manchester instead of staying- tourist city - no decent evening economy catering for anyone other than lager louts and hen night clubbers - its a real missed opportunity! guitarfriend

6:52pm Tue 20 Jul 10

SensibleSimon says...

Jobsworth. There are more important things to worry about than Starbucks. They're not the worst thing in the world are they? The pub sells booze which is bad for you and can cause trouble when overused, the cigarette shop isn't exactly healthy and burger king is selling heart disease at double prices! Lovely. But as long as the symmetry of the building isn't affected....

I'm personally more bothered by the lack of bins. I hate to litter, but don't always have a spare 3 hands to carry a load of rubbish around. Are there really that many people hanging around to put bombs in bins?
Jobsworth. There are more important things to worry about than Starbucks. They're not the worst thing in the world are they? The pub sells booze which is bad for you and can cause trouble when overused, the cigarette shop isn't exactly healthy and burger king is selling heart disease at double prices! Lovely. But as long as the symmetry of the building isn't affected.... I'm personally more bothered by the lack of bins. I hate to litter, but don't always have a spare 3 hands to carry a load of rubbish around. Are there really that many people hanging around to put bombs in bins? SensibleSimon

7:32pm Tue 20 Jul 10

Lizzie Browning says...

If they reintroduced bins and then we heard a rather angry 'boom' sound, Simon, I suspect you would be the first to complain. Unless of course you were happily redecorating large parts of our lovely county with your sensible entrails! <smile>
If they reintroduced bins and then we heard a rather angry 'boom' sound, Simon, I suspect you would be the first to complain. Unless of course you were happily redecorating large parts of our lovely county with your sensible entrails! Lizzie Browning

11:12pm Tue 20 Jul 10

SensibleSimon says...

If if if though! What if they put a bomb up their jumper? Having no bins wouldn't help would it? Are we just going to change everything and take every over the top precaution for something that is extremely unlikely to happen?

We have speed bumps because the
minority morons can't be sensible, and the majority are punished for something they'll never do. Meanwhile the morons will still speed and go bouncing over the bumps.

We have to strip naked to go on an airplane because one in 100 million might try and kill us... It's not fair on the law abiding majority. What's wrong with a bit of racial profiling!? (sarcasm)

When York station had bins, did a bomb ever go off in one? Not to belittle the suffering of anyone involved in such tragic events.... but if we change everything about our world just in case one in a million happens.... they've won. There needs to be another way. Or just keep going the best you can, and don't let the bas****s win! We give up too much.

Anyway, that's just me. By the way, my names not Simon. ;)
If if if though! What if they put a bomb up their jumper? Having no bins wouldn't help would it? Are we just going to change everything and take every over the top precaution for something that is extremely unlikely to happen? We have speed bumps because the minority morons can't be sensible, and the majority are punished for something they'll never do. Meanwhile the morons will still speed and go bouncing over the bumps. We have to strip naked to go on an airplane because one in 100 million might try and kill us... It's not fair on the law abiding majority. What's wrong with a bit of racial profiling!? (sarcasm) When York station had bins, did a bomb ever go off in one? Not to belittle the suffering of anyone involved in such tragic events.... but if we change everything about our world just in case one in a million happens.... they've won. There needs to be another way. Or just keep going the best you can, and don't let the bas****s win! We give up too much. Anyway, that's just me. By the way, my names not Simon. ;) SensibleSimon

12:17am Wed 21 Jul 10

TooRelaxed says...

Nice one Simon.
Nice one Simon. TooRelaxed

1:16am Wed 21 Jul 10

Guy Fawkes says...

I lived not too far from Waterloo station when, back in the days of Arthur Scargill, Duran Duran, Mini Metros and don't tell Sid, our Guinness-glugging friends did indeed decide that it would be fun to make a bin go boom. If my memory of the occasion is correct, the boom was not a very spectacular one and it did not cause anyone's entrails to compete with the pigeon droppings on the concourse to provide that nostalgic British Rail ambience we all miss so much. Furthermore, there has been a distinct absence of bins going boom since: they might have been almost instantly purged from all railway stations, but the paranoia never extended into the towns beyond them. There are public litter bins all over the city centre of York that have politely refrained from exploding for quite a long time now: why is the risk that they might become possessed by the ghost of Blaster Bates considered worth taking in St. Helen's Square but not on one of the station platforms?
I lived not too far from Waterloo station when, back in the days of Arthur Scargill, Duran Duran, Mini Metros and don't tell Sid, our Guinness-glugging friends did indeed decide that it would be fun to make a bin go boom. If my memory of the occasion is correct, the boom was not a very spectacular one and it did not cause anyone's entrails to compete with the pigeon droppings on the concourse to provide that nostalgic British Rail ambience we all miss so much. Furthermore, there has been a distinct absence of bins going boom since: they might have been almost instantly purged from all railway stations, but the paranoia never extended into the towns beyond them. There are public litter bins all over the city centre of York that have politely refrained from exploding for quite a long time now: why is the risk that they might become possessed by the ghost of Blaster Bates considered worth taking in St. Helen's Square but not on one of the station platforms? Guy Fawkes

1:53am Wed 21 Jul 10

cliftongirl says...

I hate corporations, but still, heritage is a timeless thing in a way. Today's cliches are tomorrow's heritage and an old station like York's is going to be there for a long, long time. The 20th and 21st century are a part of its future heritage. If we keep it exclusively reflective of the past, with nothing modern allowed, it won't be able to say anything about our times in the future. What if anything contemporary was stripped from such a building in the 1920s because they wanted it only to look Victorian? Wouldn't that be lost 1920s heritage now, in 2010?

Plus I like the frappes.
I hate corporations, but still, heritage is a timeless thing in a way. Today's cliches are tomorrow's heritage and an old station like York's is going to be there for a long, long time. The 20th and 21st century are a part of its future heritage. If we keep it exclusively reflective of the past, with nothing modern allowed, it won't be able to say anything about our times in the future. What if anything contemporary was stripped from such a building in the 1920s because they wanted it only to look Victorian? Wouldn't that be lost 1920s heritage now, in 2010? Plus I like the frappes. cliftongirl

9:34am Wed 21 Jul 10

peepod says...

leninwasright wrote:
peepod wrote:
It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.
Still the finest station building outside London and still one of the finest in Europe, including all the Paris termini. It isn't dirty but does have one or two excrescences (or rather increscences ) like the ATM block which need moving. It does need another crossing point with escalators but on the other hand has two tunnels with lifts. The platforms sparkle. The only other thing missing is that wonderful sexy voice which used to announce "This is York, This is York". As for Starbucks, it isn't even drinkable in the States and they always provide it in sizes beginning with Dustbin, presumably to get rid of as much as possible.
Don't get me wrong, York station is a grand building and has historical merits for York and for England. But, I use this station everyday and looking around it does need some TLC to bring it up to scratch. And, as for Starbucks, I prefer Costa coffee myself but you can't stand in the way of progress, Starbucks as a business has done very well, people like it and buy it. York needs to serve the residents and tourists here in the 21st century. Old has to mix with new in order for York to sustain economic viability for the future.
[quote][p][bold]leninwasright[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]peepod[/bold] wrote: It's hardly Grand Central! I wouldn't say that York Station is pleasing to the eye at the moment, it's dirty, dated and needs money spending on it to bring it up to scratch.[/p][/quote]Still the finest station building outside London and still one of the finest in Europe, including all the Paris termini. It isn't dirty but does have one or two excrescences (or rather increscences [!]) like the ATM block which need moving. It does need another crossing point with escalators but on the other hand has two tunnels with lifts. The platforms sparkle. The only other thing missing is that wonderful sexy voice which used to announce "This is York, This is York". As for Starbucks, it isn't even drinkable in the States and they always provide it in sizes beginning with Dustbin, presumably to get rid of as much as possible.[/p][/quote]Don't get me wrong, York station is a grand building and has historical merits for York and for England. But, I use this station everyday and looking around it does need some TLC to bring it up to scratch. And, as for Starbucks, I prefer Costa coffee myself but you can't stand in the way of progress, Starbucks as a business has done very well, people like it and buy it. York needs to serve the residents and tourists here in the 21st century. Old has to mix with new in order for York to sustain economic viability for the future. peepod

1:29pm Wed 21 Jul 10

Eric Style says...

What about the dated bar that is in the station? That sign in the background is more of an eyesore. I'm sad, no more lemon muffins for breakfast!
I thought that the station was to be redeveloped anyway to provide more shops?
What about the dated bar that is in the station? That sign in the background is more of an eyesore. I'm sad, no more lemon muffins for breakfast! I thought that the station was to be redeveloped anyway to provide more shops? Eric Style

10:52am Thu 22 Jul 10

deathwatch says...

Eric Style wrote:
What about the dated bar that is in the station? That sign in the background is more of an eyesore. I'm sad, no more lemon muffins for breakfast!
I thought that the station was to be redeveloped anyway to provide more shops?
"What about the dated bar that is in the station? That sign in the background is more of an eyesore. I'm sad, no more lemon muffins for breakfast!
I thought that the station was to be redeveloped anyway to provide more shops?"
IT'S A TRAIN STATION - NOT A SHOPPING CENTRE, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!
[quote][p][bold]Eric Style[/bold] wrote: What about the dated bar that is in the station? That sign in the background is more of an eyesore. I'm sad, no more lemon muffins for breakfast! I thought that the station was to be redeveloped anyway to provide more shops?[/p][/quote]"What about the dated bar that is in the station? That sign in the background is more of an eyesore. I'm sad, no more lemon muffins for breakfast! I thought that the station was to be redeveloped anyway to provide more shops?" IT'S A TRAIN STATION - NOT A SHOPPING CENTRE, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! deathwatch

2:34pm Sat 24 Jul 10

MattRSJ says...

Bothered. There are too many coffee shops in York and I'm pretty certain NOBODY in York needs that much caffeine.
Bothered. There are too many coffee shops in York and I'm pretty certain NOBODY in York needs that much caffeine. MattRSJ

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