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10:07am Wednesday 10th March 2010 in
YORK’S political chiefs have been accused of dirty tricks and making “misleading” claims that the city has the lowest council tax bills in Yorkshire.
Leaflets emblazoned with the message were pushed through letterboxes throughout the city by City of York Council’s ruling Liberal Democrat group ahead of the settling of the authority’s budget for next year.
That ultimately included a 2.7 per cent rise in council tax for the year ahead. But now a row has erupted, after the political literature said York’s current bills were lower than the rest of Yorkshire, despite four other areas – Leeds, Doncaster, Wakefield and Bradford – paying less.
The Lib Dem group has now said its statement was based only on the council-controlled element of York’s tax – without taking into account the fire and police authority charges and parish precepts. The Lib Dems said the council’s share gave a charge of £1,062 for the average Band D property in 2009/10.
Holgate Labour councillor James Alexander, whose ward was among those where the leaflet was delivered, said: “This is deliberately misleading. When somebody says York has the lowest council tax in Yorkshire in big letters, they expect it to mean York residents pay the lowest council tax in Yorkshire. However, residents in places such as Leeds, Doncaster, Wakefield and Bradford all pay less than us. To say we pay less than them is simply not true.
“This reminds me of the local Lib Dem manifesto of 2003 where they said they would ‘knock around £100 off each household council tax bill in York’. After seven years, I am still waiting.”
Council leader Andrew Waller said: “Coun Alexander’s Government’s own Department for Communities and Local Government measures the council-controlled element of council tax separately from the charges levied by police and fire authorities and parish councils, so representing the figures in this way is nothing new or controversial.
“These figures enable a direct like-for-like comparison with other councils for the charge the council has direct control over. We are delivering the same services in York for less cost to residents than in other areas of Yorkshire.”
Comments(60)
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fatima blush
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10:41am Wed 10 Mar 10
voiceoreason
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10:47am Wed 10 Mar 10
Bishlad
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11:02am Wed 10 Mar 10
James Alexander
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11:05am Wed 10 Mar 10
fatima blush
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11:16am Wed 10 Mar 10
James Alexander wrote:Well said James, the Lib Dems would use any cover to deceive this city.
Dear voiceoreason / Lib Dem Councillor Nigel Ayre, Executive member for the Barbican, What is wrong is to claim people pay the least in Council Tax in Yorkshire when this is simply not true. Your leaflet made no mention of any small print regarding police and fire charges etc. If you tell people they have the lowest Council Tax in Yorkshire and this is not true, then this is misleading. I gave your Council Leader an opportunity to clarify this situation at the budget Council meeting and he did not answer the point I made. I am also not accusing the Council of misleading as the figures the Council gave me show that residents in Bradford, Leeds, Wakefield and Doncaster pay less than residents in York. I am accusing your local party who distribute material that is misleading. I suggest you try and sort out the Barbican mate and use your real name on her in future. All the best, Councillor James Alexander Labour Councillor for Holgate Ward
Minsterview
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11:25am Wed 10 Mar 10
sciencefan
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11:32am Wed 10 Mar 10
James Alexander wrote:Well done Councillor Alexander for outing another Politician not using his real name for this forum. Mr Ayre should be ashamed of himself for being so deceptive. I'm not a big fan of your politics James, but I applaud you for your morals.
Dear voiceoreason / Lib Dem Councillor Nigel Ayre, Executive member for the Barbican,
What is wrong is to claim people pay the least in Council Tax in Yorkshire when this is simply not true. Your leaflet made no mention of any small print regarding police and fire charges etc. If you tell people they have the lowest Council Tax in Yorkshire and this is not true, then this is misleading. I gave your Council Leader an opportunity to clarify this situation at the budget Council meeting and he did not answer the point I made.
I am also not accusing the Council of misleading as the figures the Council gave me show that residents in Bradford, Leeds, Wakefield and Doncaster pay less than residents in York. I am accusing your local party who distribute material that is misleading.
I suggest you try and sort out the Barbican mate and use your real name on her in future.
All the best,
Councillor James Alexander
Labour Councillor for Holgate Ward
LibDem
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11:33am Wed 10 Mar 10
AngryandFrustrated
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11:46am Wed 10 Mar 10
James Alexander wrote:Go James, go!!!!
Dear voiceoreason / Lib Dem Councillor Nigel Ayre, Executive member for the Barbican, What is wrong is to claim people pay the least in Council Tax in Yorkshire when this is simply not true. Your leaflet made no mention of any small print regarding police and fire charges etc. If you tell people they have the lowest Council Tax in Yorkshire and this is not true, then this is misleading. I gave your Council Leader an opportunity to clarify this situation at the budget Council meeting and he did not answer the point I made. I am also not accusing the Council of misleading as the figures the Council gave me show that residents in Bradford, Leeds, Wakefield and Doncaster pay less than residents in York. I am accusing your local party who distribute material that is misleading. I suggest you try and sort out the Barbican mate and use your real name on her in future. All the best, Councillor James Alexander Labour Councillor for Holgate Ward
Chumpy
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11:53am Wed 10 Mar 10
keepitshut
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12:24pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Nigel Ayre
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12:43pm Wed 10 Mar 10
James Alexander
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12:50pm Wed 10 Mar 10
yorknights
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12:53pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Silver
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12:54pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Nigel Ayre wrote:To quote Harry Hill there's only one way to settle this FIGHT!
why did I get dragged in to this? James if you will have spats with people on here at least let me know so I can join in!
Henry Swanson
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12:56pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Nigel Ayre
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12:59pm Wed 10 Mar 10
voiceoreason
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1:08pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Nigel Ayre
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1:10pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Silver wrote:I'm not sure this is something the council tax payers of York would want to see?
Nigel Ayre wrote:To quote Harry Hill there's only one way to settle this FIGHT!
why did I get dragged in to this? James if you will have spats with people on here at least let me know so I can join in!
AdmiralNN
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1:16pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Henry Swanson
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1:17pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Nigel Ayre wrote:WRONG!
Silver wrote:I'm not sure this is something the council tax payers of York would want to see?Nigel Ayre wrote: why did I get dragged in to this? James if you will have spats with people on here at least let me know so I can join in!To quote Harry Hill there's only one way to settle this FIGHT!
Silver
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1:17pm Wed 10 Mar 10
James Alexander wrote:Although I agree with the openness James is expressing and agree with the logic, it could be a bad move to guess who so and so is on this site. As you councillors have to work together to do your best for us. Ok we're rather critical of your work but wouldn't it be better for you to disagree rather less publically then this? Just thinking of the embarassment to the office this could one day incur
Dear keepitshut, There have been a number of comments on this site in the past which indicate council committee membership or attendance at a particular meeting. I worked out last year that if you piece together who was at all of those meetings it can only be him or myself and it isn’t me. He also commented on this story on my facebook wall this morning with a 1min time difference to his comment on this site. I see Nigel is on here properly now. Welcome Nigel! Nigel is an alright guy though and I am not having a go at him too much, we just don’t see eye to eye politically. I am glad you have taken off the cloak Nigel! I also think LibDem is Councillor Steve Galloway based on some previous comments on transport figures. The local Lib Dems not only do this on this site but also field members to speak at council meetings as members of the public to praise council policy. I worked out who one such member was at a recent executive meeting I attended. I assume he will be one of their candidates to be a councillor next year. Councillor James Alexander Labour Councillor for Holgate Ward
AdmiralNN
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1:22pm Wed 10 Mar 10
jez b
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1:28pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Nigel Ayre wrote:Yes we would, James v Galloway in a cage match.
Silver wrote:I'm not sure this is something the council tax payers of York would want to see?Nigel Ayre wrote: why did I get dragged in to this? James if you will have spats with people on here at least let me know so I can join in!To quote Harry Hill there's only one way to settle this FIGHT!
James Alexander
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1:51pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Silver
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2:00pm Wed 10 Mar 10
James Alexander wrote:Speaking personally here, shouldn't you both be commenting on the valuation of business rates for small businesses at the moment? As whilst it's a misleading figure, and I'll grant you that don't you both have a better issue to comment on first? It's what I'd expect from my elected officials that they read that story perhaps comment on what could be done to help out our small businesses or at least defend those fees.
Dear Henry Swanson, The point is the leaflet was not correct. It said lowest Council Tax in Yorkshire and had no mention of police and fire costs. It is misleading and this is wrong. I think it is wrong to be paid by the public purse and then defend your views or position under a pseudonym as if you are a member of the public backing up your own view. This is also misleading. It portrays a lack of belief and confidence in your own opinion. People can disagree with me if they wish, they can even as you said believe I am pointless, but at least I defend my position openly because I believe what I say. I get paid from the public purse and people who elect me have a right to know what my opinion is and what I am doing on their behalf. I therefore don’t believe politicians should have anonymity on this board. Dear Silver, I can work with Nigel but we don’t appear to be on any committees together anymore, apart from the full Council meetings. And Nigel, did you swap hats when you were logging in and logging out of this website just now? Anyway I couldn’t fight you Nige. I am a lover not a fighter… Councillor James Alexander Labour Councillor for Holgate Ward
James Alexander
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2:02pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Ben Guela
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2:10pm Wed 10 Mar 10
James Alexander wrote:Well said Mr. Alexander! You argue well against the LibDims.
Dear voiceoreason / Lib Dem Councillor Nigel Ayre, Executive member for the Barbican, What is wrong is to claim people pay the least in Council Tax in Yorkshire when this is simply not true. Your leaflet made no mention of any small print regarding police and fire charges etc. If you tell people they have the lowest Council Tax in Yorkshire and this is not true, then this is misleading. I gave your Council Leader an opportunity to clarify this situation at the budget Council meeting and he did not answer the point I made. I am also not accusing the Council of misleading as the figures the Council gave me show that residents in Bradford, Leeds, Wakefield and Doncaster pay less than residents in York. I am accusing your local party who distribute material that is misleading. I suggest you try and sort out the Barbican mate and use your real name on her in future. All the best, Councillor James Alexander Labour Councillor for Holgate Ward
Kiff
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2:28pm Wed 10 Mar 10
eddie vee
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2:31pm Wed 10 Mar 10
AdmiralNN
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2:36pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Kiff wrote:oh yes, your not the only one i thought that also. Especially when they started singing the virtues of vassie. And when you think of the judges comments which decribed Vassie as 'Unpleasant and Patronising' you could easily apply this to gails postings.
I've no problem with Councillors posting under their own names, but I take exception to the way they they were trying push their opinions anonymously. Not that I'm surprised - Based on comments 'she' has made about the Barbican I've long believed that "Gailforcewins" is really Vassie.
AngryandFrustrated
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2:37pm Wed 10 Mar 10
AdmiralNN wrote:Unfortunately, you were clearly being offensive to clowns!! There is no consistency with the moderation on this site - I have lost count of the amount of times that I have been moderated off for referring to Galloway as a "muppet" or "Wally Waller" - hardly cutting and hurtful comments but clearly offensive to someone! Oooops, there I go again - wonder how long this posting will last!
Who got my comment removed for saying Ayre was a clown? ' Even my correction got removed! ' some of you really need to get a backbone
kelly80
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3:49pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Henry Swanson
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4:14pm Wed 10 Mar 10
AngryandFrustrated wrote:But as well as being a councilor they are also members of the public are they not, and as such they may not always agree with what their party stands for or does, they should retain the right to publish anonymously if they so wish.....
AdmiralNN wrote: Who got my comment removed for saying Ayre was a clown? ' Even my correction got removed! ' some of you really need to get a backboneUnfortunately, you were clearly being offensive to clowns!! There is no consistency with the moderation on this site - I have lost count of the amount of times that I have been moderated off for referring to Galloway as a "muppet" or "Wally Waller" - hardly cutting and hurtful comments but clearly offensive to someone! Oooops, there I go again - wonder how long this posting will last! As an aside - once again respect to James Alexander for taking us posters head on, without hiding behind a cloak of anonymity. Keep up the good work in ousting other politicians on this site! A message for Henry Swanson - the bulk of people that post on this site are members of "Joe Public", with nothing to gain apart from the ability to vent or rant on a particular story or comment. Politicians that pretend to be Joe Public and who try to manipulate the people who read these comments are, in my view, guilty of deception. I find myself asking why they feel the need to hide behind the cloak of anonymity, especially when they begin spouting facts and figures at us that only the politicians would have access to - is it because they are maybe ashamed or embarrassed at some of the things they do or say? At least Mr Alexander stands up and is counted on the comments he makes.
James Alexander
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4:28pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Kiff
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4:34pm Wed 10 Mar 10
GoodDoc
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6:27pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Garrowby Turnoff
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6:27pm Wed 10 Mar 10
voiceoreason wrote:How's the worm tasting today voiceoreason?
Cllr Alexander ... wrong The council does not set the police fire or parish levels. How can you judge the council on how much the police charges? Accusing the council of being misleading while trying to suggest Leeds pay less because the council tax is higher but the police charge is lower is actually being misleading. THE SIMPLE FACT IS YORK COUNCIL CHARGES LESS TO RESIDENTS THAN ANY COUNCIL IN YORKSHIRE
petethefeet
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6:38pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Cost Accountant
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7:16pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Silver
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7:29pm Wed 10 Mar 10
James Alexander wrote:I don't know occasionally I'd want to be able to say what I really thought but according to your logic that would mean potentially leaving your political party and becoming an independant.
Dear Henry Swanson, I disagree. You shouldn’t be in public office being paid by the public purse if you are unwilling to stand up for your views openly. Councillor James Alexander Labour Councillor for Holgate Ward
yorkbornandbred
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8:31pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Silver
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8:51pm Wed 10 Mar 10
James Alexander wrote:Thank you for putting this view which I agree with but any chance of copying and pasting it into the proper news article. I'm being nit picky but as this is all in the public eye it'd be nice to have it on record in the correct place, should you become MP, and due to the nature of current distrusts of our political system (i.e Expenses not pointing the finger as far as I know you haven't fiddled the council expenses) no rush though there's a game on after all
Dear Silver, I was not aware of the changes in business rates but if it is harming business and an economic recovery, then there should be a review of the rates. Councillor James Alexander Labour Councillor for Holgate Ward
Michelle O'Malley
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9:24pm Wed 10 Mar 10
Jim Pooley
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9:32pm Wed 10 Mar 10
pedalling paul
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10:11pm Wed 10 Mar 10
sciencefan
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11:13pm Wed 10 Mar 10
LibDem wrote:Ah I wondered how long it would take you to crawl out of your hole. Be you Galloway the Jester of York or whoever if you want to campaign, be upfront about who you are or disappear down one of the holes in the our roads that the Council is failing to fill. Goodbye LibDum
10 years ago, when Labour were the largest Group on the Council, they issued a leaflet claiming to be the lowest Council Tax in North Yorkshire (true at the time). They didn't include the Police precept nor does the central (Labour) Government web sites which compare the performance of individual Councils.
The Press have the list of Council Tax levels to be paid throughout Yorkshire but they choose not to publish it. No doubt seeking to spare Cllr Alexanders blushes (he does spend a lot of time jumping on whatever bandwagon the media happen to be pushing from one month to the enxt).
James Alexander
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12:02am Thu 11 Mar 10
Kiff
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11:03am Thu 11 Mar 10
GoodDoc wrote:Personally I find it a lot less creepy then the likes of LibDem, GailForceWinds and the ironically named voiceoreason who are also quick to comment at any time of the day or night with their usual mantra
Am I the only one who finds Mr Alexander a little creepy? Putting himself up as a champion of the people, espousing populist ideas, bickering on public forums and courting York Press like he owes them a favour. 'Unveiling' councillors on here? To be frank, I am no more suspicious of commenters like 'voiceofreason' than I am of the comments that quickly follow any post by Mr Alexander, saying how wonderful and refreshing he is.
Ultimately, anyone that listens to any particular councillor on which councillors to trust, is probably not fit to vote.
createshavoc
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11:45am Thu 11 Mar 10
delboy352
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1:11pm Thu 11 Mar 10
James Alexander wrote:Personally, I think that as you local politicians are paid from the public purse, you should be sorting out the pot holes in the roads or other such important things instead of spending your time on here spouting off schoolboy taunts...come on...get some bl**dy work done!!!
Dear Henry Swanson, The point is the leaflet was not correct. It said lowest Council Tax in Yorkshire and had no mention of police and fire costs. It is misleading and this is wrong. I think it is wrong to be paid by the public purse and then defend your views or position under a pseudonym as if you are a member of the public backing up your own view. This is also misleading. It portrays a lack of belief and confidence in your own opinion. People can disagree with me if they wish, they can even as you said believe I am pointless, but at least I defend my position openly because I believe what I say. I get paid from the public purse and people who elect me have a right to know what my opinion is and what I am doing on their behalf. I therefore don’t believe politicians should have anonymity on this board. Dear Silver, I can work with Nigel but we don’t appear to be on any committees together anymore, apart from the full Council meetings. And Nigel, did you swap hats when you were logging in and logging out of this website just now? Anyway I couldn’t fight you Nige. I am a lover not a fighter… Councillor James Alexander Labour Councillor for Holgate Ward
James Alexander
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2:26pm Thu 11 Mar 10
GoodDoc
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6:36pm Fri 12 Mar 10
James Alexander
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8:11pm Fri 12 Mar 10
GoodDoc
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1:40pm Sun 14 Mar 10
James Alexander
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1:50pm Sun 14 Mar 10
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