Chance to air Clifton Green cycle lane views (From York Press)

Yayyyyy! I've beaten Pedalling Paul on here!

His bike-related-story-s
ensor must need new batteries

Talk about closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

The council will ignore the majority - the vocal minority of cyclists will win the day!

Theendoftheworld wrote:
The council will ignore the majority - the vocal minority of cyclists will win the day!

I hope we don't - the Clifton Green junction remodelling was an expensive mistake. It was also a lesson in why cycle lanes do not work everywhere, and that keeping all road users in harmony is more important than chasing funding like 'Cycling City'.

Now, let's hope common sense prevails on Blossom Street.

"The project – which had an original budget of £300,000 – saw the old left-hand filter lane given over to bikes, causing tailbacks for cars turning from Water End into Shipton Road"

This 'improvement' doesn't cause tailbacks for people wishing to turn from Water End onto Shipton Road, it is a nightmare for anyone unfortunate enough to have to use Water End in a car full stop. Now during peak times traffic doesn't just back up to Leeman Road, it backs up to Boroughbridge Road/Poppleton Road and much further sometimes. As for the Westminster Road/Avenue 'rat run', this is used generally by people wishing to turn right across 2 lanes of traffic avoiding this terrible mistake of a junction. Without lights to help them safely negotiate other cars, pedestrians and yes, the all important cyclist how can the whole fiasco be considered an improvement??
If this is the best idea the council can come up with for the windfall cycling fund then they deserve not to have it. Thanks to this 'improvement' the Water mains in this area have already been replaced owing to the contractors turning the Green into a lake during the remodelling of the road, so it is unlikely to cause a problem in reinstating.
£36k to put this unholy f*** up right.. bargain.!.. perhaps the Executive Members for City Strategy could foot the bill between them..

Regarding Blossom Street.. God Help Us.. Let's just fix one thing before breaking another.

Drat and double drat...sorry but I had to pedal to the dentist this morning...getting a bit long in the tooth!
I think it will be helpful to consider the role which this route will play, in the suburban "green wheel" cycle route. Another part is currently being built along Crichton Avenue. Controversy surrounded an earlier section alongside Tadcaster Road/Mount Vale which has since died down, and this section is now well used for school journeys, and commuting via the Millennium Bridge.

Quick question, if it cost £540k to change the road initiall why will it only cost £36k to put it back as was??

Why don't you just come out and say "To hell with you all, everyone who isn't obsessed with cycling"?
We all know it's what you and your ilk really think of everyone who isn't a greenier-than-thou bully.
Why should I cycle several miles to work, then work a 10 or 12 hour day before cycling the several miles back home - in the dark and across this fiasco of a junction?
Why should I rely on pathetic, disorganised, over priced public transport if I want to go into town?
How about Park & Ride? Well, why should I have to travel AWAY from my destination to use the service?
.
Current council policy - as it has been for many years, sadly - is not to encourage people to use more "environmentally friendly" (in quotes because running a car for forty minutes a day is not even a drop in the ocean compared to the output from power generation and industry, but maybe this lunatic thinks we should live in the dark and have medieval technology) transport, but, through "consultation" and amazing redesign of arterial routes into the city, to make doing anything but cycling so utterly painful that when congestion increases they can say "well, we told you so. This is why we want you to cycle". And that's it - it's what they want us to do. Never mind that they OUR elected public servants; they have their own, unfair, biased, out-of-touch, parochial view of the world and we have to fit it or else.
So, to the council - listen to what we, the citizens who selected you to lead us and to run our city, have to say and consider what we need to to our jobs and live our lives more easily. And to Paul and proselytising crowd of eco-evangelists - don't be so shrill, don't ram the message down people's throats, don't expect everyone to be willing - or even able - to live like you do. Have some consideration, and, just maybe, then we can have a debate.

"...saw the old left-hand filter lane given over to bikes," No, York Press, the bike lane is not the width of the old left-hand filter lane. Look at Google Maps for a reminder of what it used to look like, and get out of the office and go and look at what it's like now.

It would be a serious mistake to reverse the changes to Clifton Green. You could look forward to the restored left-hand filter lane being blocked by a badly-positioned vehicle in the right-hand lane, again and again and again, like in the bad old days, but how quickly some have forgotten. Those long tailbacks are caused by too many vehicles trying to use the roads at the same time. Hint: it's worse in term-time... Even if the filter was restored, even if the Green was turned into a huge roundabout, the traffic wouldn't magically speed through York; it would just move to the back of the next queue of traffic.

I'd still like an honest reply to the question of how many seconds the left-filter and right-filter traffic light phase for vehicles travelling on Water Lane allowed, and how long the lights allow now. When I checked, it was approximately 30 seconds, but lacking a Tardis I don't know how long it used to be. That's how you could determine whether the light phasing is aiding or abetting traffic flows.

Just discovered that "next week's " meeting is actually at 5.30 tonight. Too late to register to speak! But only an update for Members and no decision making involved at this stage.

cycles are great...they have unfortunately been turned into some sort of martyr because they have a lot of very self righteous & patronising enthusiasts. There are many cyclists who literally get on their bike and just get on with it. Good on them - they are marvellous! They don't ride all over the footpaths, don't ride around in the dark wearing black having no lights either on the cycle or on their person and are no menace. Neither do they pretend they are in the Tour de France riding at speed which is not matched by concentration. The economy is in a bit of a mess and sadly from what I see it is not going to be pulled around by the glorification of the cycle. There is only a certain amount of money available for too many things now. Our economy has been greatly overstretched and a lot of restructuring will be required before there are any advances on the gloom we have witnessed in this latest recession. Many old people are finding life a struggle and young people are denied so many oportunities. Not all young people have parents who can despatch them to University. Many young people are not matching their potential presently as, even if they have a job, are doing mundane things because they have to. Great Britain was great because not only were there clever people there were skilled people too and there was industry for others who simply wanted to work and earn a living. I don't believe a financial recovery will ensue due to the auspices of the cycle. I don't believe the ecomony will improve due to the money generated from the bicycle. I wish it could, wouldn't life be easy. But life isn't so rosy. Take the spectacles off for a while and use money to it's best purpose. Clifton Green was a costly mistake...I notice that ambulances from Acomb side no longer seem to use that route to the hospital which must surely have been the quickest route. I notice each day huge buses with few passengers travelling around in a space which could be filled with something much more realistic in our city. Does a bus need to go the Harrogate with such frequency often with two passengers (just like the Leeds Bradford Airport bus which ceased). Is that environmentally friendly? I notice that the problems on Blossom Street are mainly caused by a large double length bus which cannot successfully complete the turn into Station Road without the need to sit in two rows of traffic thus making a mockery of the filter system. We live in difficult times and I think that the Council should be seen to use money to it's very best advantage. Perhaps if they made some economies, were more receptive to business people who can generate a thriving economy AND people were able to keep a little bit more of the money they earn it could be the foundation of brighter prospects. If people weren't so stressed about money maybe they could spend money on leisure activites.......whic
h could be done on a cycle if they wanted to!

I don't want the poorly designed cycle-lanes we see all over the UK. Just let's have road-users of all kinds behaving considerately, responsibly and competently.

I know, 'dream on'.

the answer to Yorks traffic problems is simple.
MONORAIL!!

There is a lot of high blood pressure today among motorists who have a fit at any suggestion they should get out of their cars. I drive when necessary, and cycle when I can to benefit my health.
Those who have to, or choose to drive over Clifton Bridge should not complain -- they are part of the problem. Too many vehicles for too little road, or too few bridges over the river.
Those who cycle are doing you a favour by not taking up road space. Perhaps you should thank Pedalling Paul, if you can without blowing a gasket.

There is no debate here - again CyC got it completely wrong by ingnoring public opinion in the first place and now they want to wriggle out of their mistake by suggesting that if they want to U turn on this one they will lose future funding for Cyclist York - well if all they are going to spend that funding on is gridlocking Blossom St, then lets all hope they lose it anyway - and the sooner that not using adequate lights attracts a life sentence working the Siberian salt mines, the better

voteofnoconfidence wrote:
the answer to Yorks traffic problems is simple. MONORAIL!!

A town with money is like a mule with a spinning wheel, damned if you know how he got and damned if he knows how to use it.
Although that is more of a shelbyville idea.

wobblesofpedallingpl
ks wrote:
There is no debate here - again CyC got it completely wrong by ingnoring public opinion in the first place and now they want to wriggle out of their mistake by suggesting that if they want to U turn on this one they will lose future funding for Cyclist York - well if all they are going to spend that funding on is gridlocking Blossom St, then lets all hope they lose it anyway - and the sooner that not using adequate lights attracts a life sentence working the Siberian salt mines, the better

Unfortunately no Local Authority in the UK can deliver what public opinion allegedly wants ie a motoring paradise with empty roads from front door to destination. Don't believe the TV ads for new cars. Never mind an open road. You don't get a gorgeous blond either.
Your claimed "public opinion" is actually lots of car owners believing that they have bought the right to unbridled car use. Thankfully there are a lot of sensible car owners in our suburbs, who have found it faster to pedal short distances, car share or use the bus. They are helping those who need, rather than want, to use a car.
Not just in York either. We are not alone.
Just try Leeds city centre in the peak, to see what pandering to car owners has brought. They are starting to invest in alternative transport choices now.

Silver wrote:

voteofnoconfidence wrote: the answer to Yorks traffic problems is simple. MONORAIL!!

A town with money is like a mule with a spinning wheel, damned if you know how he got and damned if he knows how to use it. Although that is more of a shelbyville idea.

What about us brain dead slobs?

pedalling paul wrote:

wobblesofpedallingpl ks wrote: There is no debate here - again CyC got it completely wrong by ingnoring public opinion in the first place and now they want to wriggle out of their mistake by suggesting that if they want to U turn on this one they will lose future funding for Cyclist York - well if all they are going to spend that funding on is gridlocking Blossom St, then lets all hope they lose it anyway - and the sooner that not using adequate lights attracts a life sentence working the Siberian salt mines, the better

Unfortunately no Local Authority in the UK can deliver what public opinion allegedly wants ie a motoring paradise with empty roads from front door to destination. Don't believe the TV ads for new cars. Never mind an open road. You don't get a gorgeous blond either. Your claimed "public opinion" is actually lots of car owners believing that they have bought the right to unbridled car use. Thankfully there are a lot of sensible car owners in our suburbs, who have found it faster to pedal short distances, car share or use the bus. They are helping those who need, rather than want, to use a car. Not just in York either. We are not alone. Just try Leeds city centre in the peak, to see what pandering to car owners has brought. They are starting to invest in alternative transport choices now.

I think that even the most unattractive person, male, female, young or old could get that attractive blond if they had the right car............

moleculeman wrote:
Why don't you just come out and say "To hell with you all, everyone who isn't obsessed with cycling"? We all know it's what you and your ilk really think of everyone who isn't a greenier-than-thou bully. Why should I cycle several miles to work, then work a 10 or 12 hour day before cycling the several miles back home - in the dark and across this fiasco of a junction? Why should I rely on pathetic, disorganised, over priced public transport if I want to go into town? How about Park & Ride? Well, why should I have to travel AWAY from my destination to use the service? . Current council policy - as it has been for many years, sadly - is not to encourage people to use more "environmentally friendly" (in quotes because running a car for forty minutes a day is not even a drop in the ocean compared to the output from power generation and industry, but maybe this lunatic thinks we should live in the dark and have medieval technology) transport, but, through "consultation" and amazing redesign of arterial routes into the city, to make doing anything but cycling so utterly painful that when congestion increases they can say "well, we told you so. This is why we want you to cycle". And that's it - it's what they want us to do. Never mind that they OUR elected public servants; they have their own, unfair, biased, out-of-touch, parochial view of the world and we have to fit it or else. So, to the council - listen to what we, the citizens who selected you to lead us and to run our city, have to say and consider what we need to to our jobs and live our lives more easily. And to Paul and proselytising crowd of eco-evangelists - don't be so shrill, don't ram the message down people's throats, don't expect everyone to be willing - or even able - to live like you do. Have some consideration, and, just maybe, then we can have a debate.

But YOU'RE saying, in effect, "To hell with anyone who doesn't accept my overriding right to go everywhere in my car and to have priority over all other road users". If you, and hundreds of people like you, didn't insist on using a car twice a day to travel only 'several miles' into York, then the roads wouldn't be choked. It's not cycle lanes that cause congestion, it's masses of people in cars. Take the bikes away, and you'ld still be sitting there in a traffic jam. Why do you think it would be dangerous for you to cycle on York's roads in the dark, unless it's because of the volume of traffic (and the stupidity of some of the people behind the wheel)?

I would guess that 99% of the many people who cycle in York are neither "obsessed with cycling" nor a "greenier-than-thou bully": it's just the quickest and most convenient way to get about. Personally, I have no interest in forcing anybody to ride a bike. What does nark me is people who refuse to acknowledge that they're actually part of the problem they're complaining about or to accept the consequences of their choice to get in the car, but object to any provision being made for other (paying) users of the city's road network.

pedalling paul wrote:
Drat and double drat...sorry but I had to pedal to the dentist this morning...getting a bit long in the tooth! I think it will be helpful to consider the role which this route will play, in the suburban "green wheel" cycle route. Another part is currently being built along Crichton Avenue. Controversy surrounded an earlier section alongside Tadcaster Road/Mount Vale which has since died down, and this section is now well used for school journeys, and commuting via the Millennium Bridge.

You sometimes make good points but ruin them with your insistence on bringing "pedalling" into every post (and many non-cycling stories). Why is this? Are you a. deliberately trying to wind people up? b. so vehemently anti-car that you want to have a go at every opportunity? c. a Troll. d. irretrievably smug? e. a complete to553r? e. all of the above?

pedalling paul wrote:
Just discovered that "next week's " meeting is actually at 5.30 tonight. Too late to register to speak! But only an update for Members and no decision making involved at this stage.

Two words: penile numbness. I rest my case... (BTW It's why many medical specialists recommend that men shoud not cycle. Look it up on the net).

I did mention before with regard to blossom st, it also goes for Clifton Green area, modifying the traffic light program, so that cyclists have clear access when changing or crossing an intersection, I'm sure that it is worth a try plus have a public exposure to the ignorance that drivers also cyclists have come to. Get some discipline into this subject.

Mr Udigawa wrote:

Silver wrote:

voteofnoconfidence wrote: the answer to Yorks traffic problems is simple. MONORAIL!!

A town with money is like a mule with a spinning wheel, damned if you know how he got and damned if he knows how to use it. Although that is more of a shelbyville idea.

What about us brain dead slobs?

Apologies but "You'll be given a job as a City of York Councillor."

Rhino's Wellies, says...
8:52pm Tue 26 Jan 10

Mr Udigawa wrote:

Silver wrote:

voteofnoconfidence wrote: the answer to Yorks traffic problems is simple. MONORAIL!!
A town with money is like a mule with a spinning wheel, damned if you know how he got and damned if he knows how to use it. Although that is more of a shelbyville idea.
What about us brain dead slobs?
Apologies but "You'll be given a job as a City of York Councillor."


WooHoo!!

I have to travel the Clifton Green route on a regular basis.

Only on the rarest of occasions do I see any cycles using the cycle lane, but I ALWAYS see lots of cars queing at the new junction lay out.

I really do think the fact that 2 or 3 very out spoken cyclist that dont mind giving up there own personal time to campgain have ruined it for the vast majority.

Well done chaps, hope you are happy.

Surely the main problem with this junction is not the siting of a cycle lane but simply that there are 3 lanes of traffic on a road built for only 2 ? Instead of slagging each other off in the usual cyclist vs motorist fashion wouldn't everyone be better served in coming up with a solution ? I would recommend widening the road at Clifton Green to allow two lanes into the City/Shipton Road and one to Clifton Bridge or is that too easy? It wouldn't need to be two lanes for the full length of the road, just enough to eliminate the "dog-leg" at the approach to the traffic lights.

the butler wrote:
I did mention before with regard to blossom st, it also goes for Clifton Green area, modifying the traffic light program, so that cyclists have clear access when changing or crossing an intersection, I'm sure that it is worth a try plus have a public exposure to the ignorance that drivers also cyclists have come to. Get some discipline into this subject.

Modifying the traffic light program would be a waste of money,Why? because most of the cyclists in York don't give a toss what colour the lights are.