Calls for city-wide 20mph speed limit rejected (From York Press)
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Calls for York-wide 20mph speed limit rejected
12:10pm Thursday 4th June 2009 in News
Demonstrators gather outside the Guildhall in York calling for a city-wide 20mph speed limit to be introduced
CHILDREN and campaigners gathered in York to call for reduced speed limits in their streets.
A demonstration was held outside Guildhall before the issue was discussed by councillors and officials.
Coun Steve Galloway, City of York Council’s executive member for city strategy, rejected calls for a city-wide 20mph scheme, and has instead asked officials to come up with a list of particular streets or areas where the speed limit could be reduced.
He specifically asked them to look at South Bank, following a petition by residents.
A pilot scheme is under way in Fishergate, and Coun Galloway said the results there could influence the decision in South Bank.
Coun Galloway said York already had several 20mph zones but a blanket speed restriction was not the best way to improve safety.
He said: “Many accidents are not directly caused by the speeds of the vehicles involved. Many occur at road junctions.
“However, I accept that the severity of an accident will often be influenced by the speed of the vehicles involved and for that reason the council and the police are using their limited resources to monitor vehicle speeds particularly where there have been resident complaints.”
He said the council had pressed North Yorkshire’s Chief Constable, Grahame Maxwell, to use mobile speed enforcement cameras to control traffic speeds.
He also said that, in future, satellite navigation technology could be used to regulate traffic speeds automatically.
Anna Semlyen, leader of the Twenty’s Plenty campaign group, had called for a city-wide 20mph zone.
She said: “It is disappointing to see that what we were saying did not change anything. But the campaign will go on.”
She said the council had ignored advice from transport authorities, and said money spent on the outer ring-road should have been used to improve safety in residential areas.
The council and North Yorkshire Police will now compile a list of streets where there is evidence of accident risk, and which may be suitable for a lower speed limit.
The report is expected to be available in the summer.
Comments(48)
sun seeker's
says...
12:34pm Thu 4 Jun 09
I can't remember ever reading or hearing of any.
The old saying: "if it aint broken, dont fix it" comes to mind.
mztripps
says...
12:40pm Thu 4 Jun 09
sun seeker's
says...
12:43pm Thu 4 Jun 09
mztripps wrote:mmmmm, is it voting day by any chance??
Very rare that I support Galloway's decisions but today is one of those days. Has hell frozen over?
security word: safe-fail
Top Banana
says...
1:25pm Thu 4 Jun 09
People should take responsibility for their own actions before blaming 'speeding' cars for everything.
Pah.
Kids shouldn't be on the road, in fact nobody should be on the road. or don't they have footpaths in Southbank?
sj61
says...
1:47pm Thu 4 Jun 09
JOHNYBOY
says...
1:48pm Thu 4 Jun 09
No doubt the looney cycliig lefties that allow their kids to play in the middle of the road dont realise how difficult it actually is to drive a car at 20mph - you spend more time looking at the speedo than the road so stand more chance of having an accident as your distacted.
Arent cyclists on footpaths where there are no cycle lanes more of a danger to your prescious kids?
Thats said who allows their kids to run around the streets on their own nowadays anyway?
AdmiralNN
says...
1:59pm Thu 4 Jun 09
ouseswimmer
says...
2:00pm Thu 4 Jun 09
AdmiralNN
says...
2:04pm Thu 4 Jun 09
ouseswimmer wrote:What about when cars cross the path?
Pedestrian only get hit by cars because they have walked into the road. Why not ban them from doing so? It will be a lot more sensible.
The Vicar
says...
2:09pm Thu 4 Jun 09
AdmiralNN wrote:Unlucky!
ouseswimmer wrote: Pedestrian only get hit by cars because they have walked into the road. Why not ban them from doing so? It will be a lot more sensible.What about when cars cross the path?
sun seeker's
says...
2:10pm Thu 4 Jun 09
AdmiralNN wrote:Are you talking about when cars pull onto their driveway?
ouseswimmer wrote: Pedestrian only get hit by cars because they have walked into the road. Why not ban them from doing so? It will be a lot more sensible.What about when cars cross the path?
Guy Fawkes
says...
2:14pm Thu 4 Jun 09
Irresponsible parents passing the buck again. Teach your little scrotes NOT to play in the road, then they won't get knocked over.
+1.
I note with interest that it is 'children and campaginers' who are calling for this: i.e. no-one who has to work for a living.
sun seeker's
says...
2:16pm Thu 4 Jun 09
Jassy
says...
2:19pm Thu 4 Jun 09
RingoStarr
says...
2:25pm Thu 4 Jun 09
AdmiralNN
says...
2:33pm Thu 4 Jun 09
Mother of Hercules
says...
2:36pm Thu 4 Jun 09
JOHNYBOY wrote:Why does it always come down to "Cycling Lefties"?? I am a cyclist and am most certainly not a lefty!!
Not often I agree with a council decision - but well done common sense at last!!! No doubt the looney cycliig lefties that allow their kids to play in the middle of the road dont realise how difficult it actually is to drive a car at 20mph - you spend more time looking at the speedo than the road so stand more chance of having an accident as your distacted. Arent cyclists on footpaths where there are no cycle lanes more of a danger to your prescious kids? Thats said who allows their kids to run around the streets on their own nowadays anyway?
I would also like to add that the leader of the campaign Ann Semlyn DOES have a job actually.
petethefeet
says...
2:47pm Thu 4 Jun 09
Captain Jack Sparrow
says...
2:52pm Thu 4 Jun 09
So make the speed limit coming into junctions 20mph.
Simples.
Jassy
says...
3:02pm Thu 4 Jun 09
petethefeet wrote:If you want to see really bad driving just watch the school run. Look at the way they dump the vehicle at school gates, park on blind corners, double yellow lines, rat run through back streets, just so their precious little child is cocooned in a blanket of steel.
I hope you lot never kill a kid by accident....even if it isn't your own fault. At such a time, some of the above sentiments won't help at all with your anguish!
To use the emotive argument of not killing children is just emotional black mail by what is often some of the worst drivers.
What York needs is proper enforcement of the existing limits. Stop the d*** heads that do 40 down Tadcaster road for a start.
Andrew's tea boy
says...
3:22pm Thu 4 Jun 09
Jassy wrote:Agree whole heartedly with that statement Jassy, why all the parents of The Mount School need huge cars to drop their darlings off each morning baffles me. Do they all live in the countryside accessible only by rough track.
petethefeet wrote: I hope you lot never kill a kid by accident....even if it isn't your own fault. At such a time, some of the above sentiments won't help at all with your anguish!If you want to see really bad driving just watch the school run. Look at the way they dump the vehicle at school gates, park on blind corners, double yellow lines, rat run through back streets, just so their precious little child is cocooned in a blanket of steel. To use the emotive argument of not killing children is just emotional black mail by what is often some of the worst drivers. What York needs is proper enforcement of the existing limits. Stop the d*** heads that do 40 down Tadcaster road for a start.
York1900
says...
4:45pm Thu 4 Jun 09
sun seeker's
says...
5:00pm Thu 4 Jun 09
York1900 wrote:Have you read any school books since leaving school?
Well 90% of car drives have not read the highway code since they passed there test and don't know one tenth of it
tonezzzznoddedoff
says...
5:30pm Thu 4 Jun 09
Jassy wrote:and Clifton.
Cars should be made to drive on the pavements in Tang hall, Acomb and FoxWood.
the butler
says...
5:38pm Thu 4 Jun 09
marc
says...
6:25pm Thu 4 Jun 09
eddie vee
says...
9:54pm Thu 4 Jun 09
ly PM250s which account for the fact that nationwide although only 2,000 or so people are injured in road accidents -the air quality caused by slow traffic has given over 6million children in the uk breathing problems.
Our traffic needs speeding up-not slowing down. Lets get England moving again.
SensibleSimon
says...
11:46pm Thu 4 Jun 09
It's not exactly going to slow our journeys down much, the average speed taking into account traffic, traffic lights, roundabout, speed bumps etc is below 20mph anyway.
Then again, what effect does a speed limit have on those who wish to break it? If you break 30mph, you'll break 20mph too....
See what I did there, I had a debate with myself and didn't answer any questions.... its like Prime Ministers Question Time!
mystic_genius
says...
7:53am Fri 5 Jun 09
SensibleSimon wrote:
Sorry, but I don't understand the objection to a 20mph limit? (at least in residential areas) It's not exactly going to slow our journeys down much, the average speed taking into account traffic, traffic lights, roundabout, speed bumps etc is below 20mph anyway. Then again, what effect does a speed limit have on those who wish to break it? If you break 30mph, you'll break 20mph too.... See what I did there, I had a debate with myself and didn't answer any questions.... its like Prime Ministers Question Time!
Difference being when I drive in a 30 limit I tend to drive between 30 and 40. If I'm in a 20 limit I tend to drive between 20 and 30. Thus slowing me down (albeit to still being above the law).
I agree with whoever said that driving at 20mph is nigh on impossible - you DO spend all your time staring at the needle creeping ever closer to 20...perhaps drivers should look at the road instead? Just a thought.
Those who aren't staring at the needle are inspecting their wallets through a mask of smog. But that's a different story.
TooRad
says...
8:18am Fri 5 Jun 09
Viper_7
says...
8:40am Fri 5 Jun 09
To stay under 20mph I'd be in first gear all the time averaging about 12mpg
Keep cars and people seperate. Bring in Jay walking laws, with crossing places clearly defined, anywhere else and it's an offense.
topumpire1
says...
9:03am Fri 5 Jun 09
JOHNYBOY wrote:I agree Johnboy, if you have to DRIVE at 20mph, you are constantly looking at speedo, NOT the road, whilst at 20 hitting someone MAY be safer than hitting them at 30, you are STILL hitting them because you cannot be concentrating on the road. I bet that IF the CoY council brought in this there would be an INCREASE of incidents (though much less serious ones) than at present - but how many have there been anyway recently?, near misses would become incidents as well!!
Not often I agree with a council decision - but well done common sense at last!!! No doubt the looney cycliig lefties that allow their kids to play in the middle of the road dont realise how difficult it actually is to drive a car at 20mph - you spend more time looking at the speedo than the road so stand more chance of having an accident as your distacted. Arent cyclists on footpaths where there are no cycle lanes more of a danger to your prescious kids? Thats said who allows their kids to run around the streets on their own nowadays anyway?
topumpire1
says...
9:05am Fri 5 Jun 09
TooRad wrote:IMPOSSIBLE and VERY UNgreen!!!!
Some of you don't know how to drive... if I need to stick to 20 I just keep it in second. No staring at the needle at all.
smog everywhere in the city again.
How long before those wanting 20 would be moaning about the smog?
rod king
says...
9:11am Fri 5 Jun 09
How would you feel about people in Leeds who wish to drive to Scarborough ignoring the wishes of York residents by refusing to slow down when travelling on York roads.
Do you believe that the speed on York roads should be determined by those just travelling through, or the people who have to walk, cycle, shop, chat on those streets, or simply sit in their gardens.
And if you think that York residents should insist on those from Leeds exercising caution then why not take that down to a local community and street level.
And in any case what exactly are the advantages of travelling at 30 mph on residential roads. Great, so you can get to the next congestion point a few seconds earlier!!!
No, the time has come for a sensible speed limit on residential roads. Far too many people are frightened by the speed and volume of traffic to walk or cycle. Our neighbourhoods are becoming blighted by inconsiderate driving.
"Speed becomes greed" when it stops other enjoying the use of their community roads in safety.
York will eventually become a 20 mph city, but only when its officers and politicians listen to its residents.
Rod King
www.20splentyforus.o
rg.uk
pedalling paul
says...
9:27am Fri 5 Jun 09
Time was when the street frontage was a conduit for social interaction between residents. Now that link has been severed by excessive speeding, and residents tend to hide in their back gardens, and see far less of their neighbours. This also increases crime risk.
Woonerf is a Dutch word for an area, usually residential, where motorists and other users share the street without boundaries such as lanes and curbs. The term can be translated as "residential yard. "In a woonerf, people on bikes and on foot have access to the whole street, not just sidewalks. Moreover, the street functions as a public living room, where adults gather and children play safely because vehicle speed is kept to a minimum.
In Germany, similar zones are termed Verkehrsberuhigter Bereich. Under German traffic law motorists in a Verkehrsberuhigter Bereich are restricted to a maximum speed of 7 km/h, pedestrians, including children, may use the entire street and children are permitted to play in the street
Zebedee
says...
10:05am Fri 5 Jun 09
pedalling paul
says...
3:34pm Fri 5 Jun 09
Zebedee wrote:Boing..time for bed Zebedee....!
At last someone has seen sense and the do gooders have lost their case. If they had their way we would go back to the early 1900's and employ a man walking with a red flag in front of each car.
mystic_genius
says...
3:53pm Fri 5 Jun 09
mystic_genius
says...
3:57pm Fri 5 Jun 09
topumpire1 wrote:
TooRad wrote:IMPOSSIBLE and VERY UNgreen!!!!
Some of you don't know how to drive... if I need to stick to 20 I just keep it in second. No staring at the needle at all.
smog everywhere in the city again.
How long before those wanting 20 would be moaning about the smog?
I've just tried it, actually. Just driven down Gale Lane, doing 20mph in 2nd gear.
The car (a bog standard new Astra) managed a startlingly poor 14mpg, the rev counter was a stable 4500revs, and slight touch on the accellerator and I shoot off into the sunset.
Some of you don't know how to drive. Yes, and with comments like that, TooRad, those unable to drive show themselves up very quickly.
The children in the photo would love to walk to school (HA!) in a 20mph zone. However with muppets driving like you suggest they a) wouldn't be able to see where they are going for the smog and b) not be able to get to school anyway as would have asthma due to the fumes.
Big Bad Wolf
says...
4:03pm Fri 5 Jun 09
mystic_genius
says...
4:03pm Fri 5 Jun 09
rod king wrote:York MAY eventually become a 20mph zone. However, judging by the comments on here, do you think you are in the minority or the majority?
The question for the people of York is fairly simple.
How would you feel about people in Leeds who wish to drive to Scarborough ignoring the wishes of York residents by refusing to slow down when travelling on York roads.
Do you believe that the speed on York roads should be determined by those just travelling through, or the people who have to walk, cycle, shop, chat on those streets, or simply sit in their gardens.
And if you think that York residents should insist on those from Leeds exercising caution then why not take that down to a local community and street level.
And in any case what exactly are the advantages of travelling at 30 mph on residential roads. Great, so you can get to the next congestion point a few seconds earlier!!!
No, the time has come for a sensible speed limit on residential roads. Far too many people are frightened by the speed and volume of traffic to walk or cycle. Our neighbourhoods are becoming blighted by inconsiderate driving.
"Speed becomes greed" when it stops other enjoying the use of their community roads in safety.
York will eventually become a 20 mph city, but only when its officers and politicians listen to its residents.
Rod King
www.20splentyforus.o
rg.uk
Listening to the residents would mean maintaining a 30mph limit...surely? Or do the residents who want a 30mph limit not count?
How does "speed become greed"? I don't understand the link.
Those people in Leeds going to Scarborough shouldn't go near a residential road - that is the sole reason why the A64 and A1237 were built, unless, of course, they are now residential roads? (although, granted, places like Rillington are an exception, they are also out of the York area).
If York is as congested as you suggest, what is the point in your campaign?
Keep batting me the arguments, Rod, and I will keep the battle for common sense going. god knows there are enough muppets with ridiculous thoughts like this in the world.
rod king
says...
9:42pm Fri 5 Jun 09
2005 British Survey of Social Attitudes found that 75% of people and 72% of drivers felt that 20 mph was the correct speed limit for residential roads. Do you think that York residents are different?
The point about Leeds to Scarborough was about who decides the speed limit on the through roads. Do you want York residents or Leeds drivers to set what is the maximum speed?
The point is that there is no point in travelling at 30 mph along 200m of residential road just to join the back of a queue at the next junction. Travelling faster rarely shortens the journey time and hence has no practical benefit to driver of the community.
And yes I will keep battling with the arguments because all over the country those arguments are winning as communities realise that high vehicle speeds blight communities and reduce quality of life.
Best regards
Rod King
20's Plenty for Us
TooRad
says...
10:01pm Fri 5 Jun 09
mystic_genius and others -
So how come driving instructors teach you to keep it in second between the bumps in order to keep to the limit? You are BSing aren't you? It works in my car. And all that smog and asthma nonsense? Are you some sort of drama queen?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it failed, a 20mph limit citywide is a stupid and unworkable idea and well over the top, but PuddledPaul's description of some continental European styles show us right up. I remember playing in the road as a child. The change has been gradual enough for people to not see what they've lost. To suggest that parents should discipline their "scrotes" in order to not get run over by the good motorists who have a divine freedom to race through their community cos they pay their taxes? That's totally bent.
rod king
says...
5:39am Sat 6 Jun 09
What are the benefits of such a speed limit to the people who use that road, ie drivers, walkers cyclists and residents?
Regards
Rod King
20's Plenty for Us
sun seeker's
says...
11:45am Sat 6 Jun 09
Big Bad Wolf wrote:I asked that question at the top of this thread. Nobody seems to know, so like i said above: "if it isn't broken dont try to fix it".
when WAS the last time someone was runover by a car in York???
I am sure everybody will agree that there should be some kind of speed reduction near schools.
This restriction however should only be on when required, ie, during the drop off and pick up times for the school.
These restrictions should be controlled by the school itself by means of signs that illuminated or flipped when required. People would be more tollerant of a 20mph limit if it wasn't in force when it wasn't required.
mystic_genius
says...
5:22pm Sat 6 Jun 09
rod king wrote:
Well, lets start from another point of view. Will anyone tell me why 30 mph is the right speed limit for residential roads?
What are the benefits of such a speed limit to the people who use that road, ie drivers, walkers cyclists and residents?
Regards
Rod King
20's Plenty for Us
Define "residential road".
A lot of residential roads in york, for exampel those in Fishergate 20mph is ample, however on such roads getting beyond 15mph is nigh on impossible - as a result, what is the point in changing it??
If you are referring to roads such as Tadcaster Road or Gale Lane, or Huntington Road for a 20mph, this is plain ridiculous. There are large grass verges on each side of some of these roads, cycle lanes, what would 20mph achieve?
The benefits were presumably sought in the 1970's when these limits were set. I imagine that they are a blend of congestion-busting, efficiency and consideration to other road users.
They took into consideration the average stopping distances of the best selling car of the time, and reaction times of the average person to determine what was safe.
What you are suggesting is that cars today have poorer safety (for occupants of car AND anything they may hit) than in the 1970's. That is simple not true.
mystic_genius
says...
5:29pm Sat 6 Jun 09
TooRad wrote:
It was the right decision, a stupid idea in the first place.
mystic_genius and others -
So how come driving instructors teach you to keep it in second between the bumps in order to keep to the limit? You are BSing aren't you? It works in my car. And all that smog and asthma nonsense? Are you some sort of drama queen?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it failed, a 20mph limit citywide is a stupid and unworkable idea and well over the top, but PuddledPaul's description of some continental European styles show us right up. I remember playing in the road as a child. The change has been gradual enough for people to not see what they've lost. To suggest that parents should discipline their "scrotes" in order to not get run over by the good motorists who have a divine freedom to race through their community cos they pay their taxes? That's totally bent.
Firstly, my driving instructor told me to stay in 3rd over speed bumps.
Secondly, the vast majority (if not all) cars are more efficient at 30 than 20. I believe that the most efficient speed for the majority of cars is between 38 and 45mph. Inefficiency = more pollution, simple as that. Smog as destroyed the lives of many children in LA (look it up), for example, through breathing difficulties, asthma, other preventable illnesses. This is a strong contributor to the fat-generation (a child who struggles to breath is less likely to partake in sports or other exercise).
That is not a drama queen, that is FACT!!
No one is suggesting that people should not play in the road (I did as a child), and no one is suggesting that motorists should use roads as a racetrack. I am merely suggesting mutual respect. Motorists should obey the laws of the road (or common sense, which in theory should be the same) and people (i.e. pedestrians) should also obey the laws of the road (or common sense). For example, I used to play on quiet residential roads. I did not used to play on, for example, Tadcaster Road or Fulford Road.
mystic_genius says...
12:31pm Thu 4 Jun 09
All the muppets out there petitioning for this need a grip on reality.