York Hospital faces £10m in fines

York Hospital

Patrick Crowley, Chief Executive of York Hospital

First published in News
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YORK Hospital is set to lose £10 million this year - the equivalent of funding ten wards or 100 consultants for a year - due to NHS fines.

Penalties imposed on hospitals for missing government targets over emergency cases has already cost York Hospital £2.5 million in the first three months of this year and is on target to come to £10 million.

The tough penalties come alongside escalating financial pressure on the trust, which has delivered tens of millions of pounds of savings since 2009 - and must find another £25 million in savings this year.

Patrick Crowley, chief executive of York Teaching Hospital NHS Foundation Trust, said: "We are constantly looking to do more for less.

"At this stage of the year we're marginally in deficit, which isn't a position we usually find ourselves in or we're comfortable with. What we're seeing across the country is increasing numbers of hospitals going into deficit and there are a number already in significant problems. My general view is - it's not if, it's when, in the current state of affairs."

Last year the hospital lost £8.5 million due to financial penalties imposed on A&E - including a policy of non payment if a patient is readmitted within 30 days of being discharged, and a cap on the number of admissions they can have, meaning the department is only paid 30 per cent of the full cost of treating the patient thereafter.

The issue was raised in a Channel 4 Dispatches programme, after which Vale of York CCG said it would ensure money kept from the hospital would be effectively reinvested - something which is not happening, Mr Crowley said.

He said: "It's a systemic issue, not an issue of A&E. The problems in A&E are a symptom of the system and not a problem of A&E in itself.

"I would want to see that £10 million being invested and that would need to be either paid over to the hospital to invest in our hospital services and I believe that should be the case or invested in alternatives to reduce the demand in hospital services.

"What I don't think I could ever be satisfied is we're de-funded or not paid £10 million and nothing happens.

"There is an obligation on the CCG to invest the savings they make.

"That simply isn't happening."

However a spokesperson for North Yorkshire and Humber Commissioning Support Unit disagreed - stating that while historically the Primary Care Trust and CCG did not clearly identify the monies kept from the hospital, it has this year identified out of hospital programmes that are aimed at preventing urgent care admissions. They said a new "five year plan" would see "the system change that will ensure our local community receives the best possible healthcare."

Meanwhile, the overwhelming pressure on A&E last year meant that 2800 patients arriving by ambulance waited between 30 and 60 minutes in York and Scarborough hospitals before A&E staff were able to deal with them.

Nine hundred waited more than an hour and 51 in York waited more than two hours. A new waiting facility in York has been built so ambulances can off load patients more quickly.

Mr Crowley, who oversees the Trust-wide budget of over £400 million, has warned of "huge problems" in the NHS nationally, which is projecting a £30 billion shortfall in a number of years.

He said: "The current strategy is to look to integrate services, invest in services in the community, reduce pressure in the hospital and use our services wisely and there is this belief - almost a mantra - that will then provide sustainable finances for the NHS.

"There is no evidence to suggest that will be the case and I personally don't believe it can be the case. I am a huge advocate for integrating services but I don't believe that will provide the financial salvation many claim it's going to.

"It's getting worse, it will get worse before it gets better."

Seventy per cent of the hospital spend is on staff and he said that while jobs would always look to be protected, "there will be pressure" if the financial situation worsens.

But he said "it's not all doom and gloom" and ambitious plans for the future of the hospital included looking to develop new cardiac facilities, theatres, endoscopy and acute assessment areas.

Mr Crowley said: "My general view is the moment you stop planning with ambition is the moment you start giving up on your services and things start to get worse. We will always try to do the best with what we've got."

 

Disparities with NHS discussed

A POSTCODE lottery meant more people who had gastric band surgery at York Hospital lived outside of North Yorkshire than within it.

Differences between Clinical Commissioning Group thresholds meant that people with a lower BMI from outside the county were entitled to the weight loss operations people in it were not.

Mr Crowley said: “It was harder as a York resident to access the bariatric service than it was for a resident from another part of the country.”

Discussing other disparities, – such as York being the only place in the UK not to offer IVF and the withdrawal of funding for pain relief injections for some people – Mr Crowley made the point that a discussion needed to be held over what the NHS could and could not offer. He said the inconsistencies showed a “creeping rationalisation” where “some people will choose to pay and others will go without.”

Mr Crowley said: “The NHS will continue to have a good record in managing the acutely ill.

“Finances never come into consideration in managing the most acutely ill.

“What I think what might happen in the future is there will be a debate on what the NHS can provide and that will affect planned care, planned operations, and treatments.

He added: “The NHS should be free at the point of delivery and I agree with that.

“That’s not to say the NHS can and should provide everything people feel they should.

“If we’re going to provide what we currently provide to an increasingly high standard you would argue there should be more finance in the system.

“If you agree that’s not possible there will have to be discussions about some things not being affordable on the NHS – I can’t see that not being an option.”

 

Pay rise for A&E docs

“Bonuses” for A&E doctors DESPITE suffering financial hardship, York Hospital has confirmed it is looking to offer higher salaries to A&E doctors to attract staff.

Middle grade doctors on £37,176 to £69,325 could be offered an extra 10 or 15 per cent of their salary to work in York’s emergency department which is continually recruiting due to the high pressure environment and anti-social working hours.

Mr Crowley said: “Its hard pressed, it’s one of the few 24 hour services. The harder it is to recruit, the more we expect forfrom the people we have.

“It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy – the fewer we have makes it even less attractive as a job. In terms of the modern day expectations – fewer people are willing to work around the clock.

“We have an ability to decide whether we offer the going rate salary wise. All our salaries are paid under national terms and conditions but if we find a post is difficult to recruit for we can pay a recruitment or retention payment which lifts their level of pay.”

Comments (35)

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10:30am Tue 2 Sep 14

buzzy_bee says...

Fining the hospital and non payment will only negatively affect patient care -that's us.

Personally I do not agree with fining a hospital for missing targets when it comes to A&E admissions nor do I think it is right that the hospital doesn't receive payment if the patient is readmitted to the hospital after discharge.

The government needs to rethink its strategy in discussions with medical professionals.
Fining the hospital and non payment will only negatively affect patient care -that's us. Personally I do not agree with fining a hospital for missing targets when it comes to A&E admissions nor do I think it is right that the hospital doesn't receive payment if the patient is readmitted to the hospital after discharge. The government needs to rethink its strategy in discussions with medical professionals. buzzy_bee
  • Score: 73

10:35am Tue 2 Sep 14

Kelvar says...

Doesn't anyone in The Press proof-read or know grammar? First few words are terrible! It either 'looks set' (without the IS) or 'is set to lose' (without the looks!)

And 'Government targets' need throwing under a bus!! No wonder the NHS is struggling. They need to 'get rid' of some of the 'intermediate' managers who are paid to walk around looking important and let nurses get on with the job of nursing!
Doesn't anyone in The Press proof-read or know grammar? First few words are terrible! It either 'looks set' (without the IS) or 'is set to lose' (without the looks!) And 'Government targets' need throwing under a bus!! No wonder the NHS is struggling. They need to 'get rid' of some of the 'intermediate' managers who are paid to walk around looking important and let nurses get on with the job of nursing! Kelvar
  • Score: 37

10:45am Tue 2 Sep 14

Monks Boss says...

These government targets are a downright disgrace.All this does is pile more pressure on the already overworked staff.How long can York Hospital continue paying these ridiculous fines.They will loose staff left right and centre.
These government targets are a downright disgrace.All this does is pile more pressure on the already overworked staff.How long can York Hospital continue paying these ridiculous fines.They will loose staff left right and centre. Monks Boss
  • Score: 43

11:10am Tue 2 Sep 14

again says...

For one thing York hospital is no longer adequate given the population increase in its area and advancing age of that population.

Addressing that problem with fines is simply a ludicrous attempt to play to the gallery and is counter-productive.
For one thing York hospital is no longer adequate given the population increase in its area and advancing age of that population. Addressing that problem with fines is simply a ludicrous attempt to play to the gallery and is counter-productive. again
  • Score: 51

12:07pm Tue 2 Sep 14

gravitydrips says...

again wrote:
For one thing York hospital is no longer adequate given the population increase in its area and advancing age of that population.

Addressing that problem with fines is simply a ludicrous attempt to play to the gallery and is counter-productive.
Precisely. York Hospital is no longer fit for purpose. It will always have to pay these fines as there will always be delays for new admissions because it is no longer of sufficient size for the local population.
Two things York Trust could do though to alleviate the problem. York Hosptial is treating people from Leeds, Harrogate, as far south as Pontefract and as far north as Middlesbrough, all places with large hospitals themselves. It has not got the resources to act as a REGIONAL hospital. This needs to be resolved.
Secondly, ditch Scarborough. I don't know whose bright idea it was to amalgamate the two hospitals but it's been a financial disaster for York since day one.
[quote][p][bold]again[/bold] wrote: For one thing York hospital is no longer adequate given the population increase in its area and advancing age of that population. Addressing that problem with fines is simply a ludicrous attempt to play to the gallery and is counter-productive.[/p][/quote]Precisely. York Hospital is no longer fit for purpose. It will always have to pay these fines as there will always be delays for new admissions because it is no longer of sufficient size for the local population. Two things York Trust could do though to alleviate the problem. York Hosptial is treating people from Leeds, Harrogate, as far south as Pontefract and as far north as Middlesbrough, all places with large hospitals themselves. It has not got the resources to act as a REGIONAL hospital. This needs to be resolved. Secondly, ditch Scarborough. I don't know whose bright idea it was to amalgamate the two hospitals but it's been a financial disaster for York since day one. gravitydrips
  • Score: 34

12:14pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Meirion M says...

buzzy_bee wrote:
Fining the hospital and non payment will only negatively affect patient care -that's us.

Personally I do not agree with fining a hospital for missing targets when it comes to A&E admissions nor do I think it is right that the hospital doesn't receive payment if the patient is readmitted to the hospital after discharge.

The government needs to rethink its strategy in discussions with medical professionals.
I agree with buzzy_bee.
Targets are just that. They are what people want.
This government needs a wake-up call, and treat British people as equals, as we are.
This government looks after immigrants and visitors to this people before they look after they loyal British people.
Our hospitals, and York District especially, should be run by professionals: doctors and consultants, not pen pushing "administrators".
[quote][p][bold]buzzy_bee[/bold] wrote: Fining the hospital and non payment will only negatively affect patient care -that's us. Personally I do not agree with fining a hospital for missing targets when it comes to A&E admissions nor do I think it is right that the hospital doesn't receive payment if the patient is readmitted to the hospital after discharge. The government needs to rethink its strategy in discussions with medical professionals.[/p][/quote]I agree with buzzy_bee. Targets are just that. They are what people want. This government needs a wake-up call, and treat British people as equals, as we are. This government looks after immigrants and visitors to this people before they look after they loyal British people. Our hospitals, and York District especially, should be run by professionals: doctors and consultants, not pen pushing "administrators". Meirion M
  • Score: 17

12:22pm Tue 2 Sep 14

againstthecuts says...

Can anyone see it's a Tory plot by making the nhs fail so they open it to privatisation
Can anyone see it's a Tory plot by making the nhs fail so they open it to privatisation againstthecuts
  • Score: 26

12:33pm Tue 2 Sep 14

adam reith says...

Fines aren't the answer. They need their management strategies to be reviewed by independent outsiders. Most cockups happen because staff and other resources are being wrongly or inefficiently deployed.
Fines aren't the answer. They need their management strategies to be reviewed by independent outsiders. Most cockups happen because staff and other resources are being wrongly or inefficiently deployed. adam reith
  • Score: 19

12:39pm Tue 2 Sep 14

bloodaxe says...

What a nutty idea, fining public service providers. Where do the fines come from I wonder.
What a nutty idea, fining public service providers. Where do the fines come from I wonder. bloodaxe
  • Score: 19

12:40pm Tue 2 Sep 14

mrjonscho says...

I think that the money wasted on this regulatory mechanism, designed to break the National health system, and open the market to private health care providers ( cataract care anyone?) would be better spent on patient care, rather than adding to the not inconsiderable welfare costs of benefits for the unwaged. I am confident that York Voters will remember this shambles when they have the opportunity to express an opinion next year. We deserve the same medical treatment as those friends of the Government who don't pay tax( Amazon, Starbucks et al) and as a tax payer I am appalled at this flagrant waste of our collective investment, in the service that benefits us all.
I think that the money wasted on this regulatory mechanism, designed to break the National health system, and open the market to private health care providers ( cataract care anyone?) would be better spent on patient care, rather than adding to the not inconsiderable welfare costs of benefits for the unwaged. I am confident that York Voters will remember this shambles when they have the opportunity to express an opinion next year. We deserve the same medical treatment as those friends of the Government who don't pay tax( Amazon, Starbucks et al) and as a tax payer I am appalled at this flagrant waste of our collective investment, in the service that benefits us all. mrjonscho
  • Score: 22

12:43pm Tue 2 Sep 14

bloodaxe says...

Meirion M wrote:
buzzy_bee wrote:
Fining the hospital and non payment will only negatively affect patient care -that's us.

Personally I do not agree with fining a hospital for missing targets when it comes to A&E admissions nor do I think it is right that the hospital doesn't receive payment if the patient is readmitted to the hospital after discharge.

The government needs to rethink its strategy in discussions with medical professionals.
I agree with buzzy_bee.
Targets are just that. They are what people want.
This government needs a wake-up call, and treat British people as equals, as we are.
This government looks after immigrants and visitors to this people before they look after they loyal British people.
Our hospitals, and York District especially, should be run by professionals: doctors and consultants, not pen pushing "administrators
".
Under your ideal system would you receive equal treatment without proving your loyalty ? As for pen-pushing administrators, try running something as complex as a hospital without them.
[quote][p][bold]Meirion M[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]buzzy_bee[/bold] wrote: Fining the hospital and non payment will only negatively affect patient care -that's us. Personally I do not agree with fining a hospital for missing targets when it comes to A&E admissions nor do I think it is right that the hospital doesn't receive payment if the patient is readmitted to the hospital after discharge. The government needs to rethink its strategy in discussions with medical professionals.[/p][/quote]I agree with buzzy_bee. Targets are just that. They are what people want. This government needs a wake-up call, and treat British people as equals, as we are. This government looks after immigrants and visitors to this people before they look after they loyal British people. Our hospitals, and York District especially, should be run by professionals: doctors and consultants, not pen pushing "administrators ".[/p][/quote]Under your ideal system would you receive equal treatment without proving your loyalty ? As for pen-pushing administrators, try running something as complex as a hospital without them. bloodaxe
  • Score: 2

1:16pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

A terrible situation.
Fine the hospital so it is more cash strapped than it was. Then, when it fails next time (due to being cash strapped due to the fines) fine it again.
Net result? Hospital declared unviable, sold at a rock bottom rate to a private company- ("Do you know any companies that could run a hospital George?" "Why yes I do, Dave. There's mine, or there's my mate's" "Oh yes him! He's my mate too, good idea."

It's enough to make you sick. Pun intended.
A terrible situation. Fine the hospital so it is more cash strapped than it was. Then, when it fails next time (due to being cash strapped due to the fines) fine it again. Net result? Hospital declared unviable, sold at a rock bottom rate to a private company- ("Do you know any companies that could run a hospital George?" "Why yes I do, Dave. There's mine, or there's my mate's" "Oh yes him! He's my mate too, good idea." It's enough to make you sick. Pun intended. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 30

1:40pm Tue 2 Sep 14

perplexed says...

Before coming to power didn't David Cameron say you could sum up his priorities in three letters; N H S? He also said that he intended ditching targets. Billions have since been wasted in a pointless reorganisation , and countless services have been sold off to private investors who just happen to be generous donors to the Tory Party.

I only hope people remember what a fiasco this government's handling of the NHS has been when it comes to the ballot box !
Before coming to power didn't David Cameron say you could sum up his priorities in three letters; N H S? He also said that he intended ditching targets. Billions have since been wasted in a pointless reorganisation , and countless services have been sold off to private investors who just happen to be generous donors to the Tory Party. I only hope people remember what a fiasco this government's handling of the NHS has been when it comes to the ballot box ! perplexed
  • Score: 15

1:42pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Well I'll be blowed says...

Just what you want when you are struggling to deal with an increasing workload - a fine which will lead to a further cut in resources.

Not helped by the historical underfunding of health care in N Yorkshire.

All the monies wasted over the past 3 years on redundancy payments for PCT staff etc and who have now been re-employed by the CCG, on an unproven clumsy reorganisation, on the move of management offices to new premises, on GPs having to spend hours on management (taking them away from patient care) could have been spent on patient care.

Don't blame the managers - both governments over the past 25 years have indulged themselves in wasteful and often ineffective changes. which have tended to take managers' eyes off the ball - the care of patients.

THE NHS IS NOT OVERMANAGED - IT IS OVER-ADMINISTERED AND UNDER-MANAGED.
Just what you want when you are struggling to deal with an increasing workload - a fine which will lead to a further cut in resources. Not helped by the historical underfunding of health care in N Yorkshire. All the monies wasted over the past 3 years on redundancy payments for PCT staff etc and who have now been re-employed by the CCG, on an unproven clumsy reorganisation, on the move of management offices to new premises, on GPs having to spend hours on management (taking them away from patient care) could have been spent on patient care. Don't blame the managers - both governments over the past 25 years have indulged themselves in wasteful and often ineffective changes. which have tended to take managers' eyes off the ball - the care of patients. THE NHS IS NOT OVERMANAGED - IT IS OVER-ADMINISTERED AND UNDER-MANAGED. Well I'll be blowed
  • Score: 15

2:19pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Dave Ruddock says...

Do wonder what would happen is systems reversed and the Government where under Cost Cutting measures, and lack of incentive with things that really matter (Cameron and Co GET A GRIP) Cut the Bureaucratic crap) pull finger out and support the NHS .
Do wonder what would happen is systems reversed and the Government where under Cost Cutting measures, and lack of incentive with things that really matter (Cameron and Co GET A GRIP) Cut the Bureaucratic crap) pull finger out and support the NHS . Dave Ruddock
  • Score: 3

2:23pm Tue 2 Sep 14

CRWPROJ says...

My opinion is that too much money is thrown at the NHS to solve its problems. Even increasing the national contributions has not resulted in any measurable difference. Being self employed, my 2011/12 National Insurance contributions were TEN times the amount that I could buy private cover for. The salaries and pensions in the public sector (inc NHS) just seem to be rocketing. More and more administration, benefits, holidays, and so on...
The comment about being "free at the point of delivery " shows an attitude of not recognising that the person getting the treatment may have already paid for the treatment, many times over. Dental treatment needs paying for. Prescriptions need paying for...
The money paying the salaries, for the equipment, for the heating/lighting, the building maintenance does not grow on trees. Nor does it come from local government. Nor does it come from central government. The money is obtained by a mechanism called taxation. Coincidently, the person getting the 'free treatment' may be paying tax/NI.
My opinion is that too much money is thrown at the NHS to solve its problems. Even increasing the national contributions has not resulted in any measurable difference. Being self employed, my 2011/12 National Insurance contributions were TEN times the amount that I could buy private cover for. The salaries and pensions in the public sector (inc NHS) just seem to be rocketing. More and more administration, benefits, holidays, and so on... The comment about being "free at the point of delivery " shows an attitude of not recognising that the person getting the treatment may have already paid for the treatment, many times over. Dental treatment needs paying for. Prescriptions need paying for... The money paying the salaries, for the equipment, for the heating/lighting, the building maintenance does not grow on trees. Nor does it come from local government. Nor does it come from central government. The money is obtained by a mechanism called taxation. Coincidently, the person getting the 'free treatment' may be paying tax/NI. CRWPROJ
  • Score: 5

2:37pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Fanny Free House says...

Absolutely outrageous and counter-productive.

Failed to hit target, so we will take away a substantial financial resource which will inevitably reduce efficiencies in other parts of the service.

Who gets the money while we and OUR NHS gets shafted.

Give us the same funding they get in the South or Scotland and stop skewing us over.
Absolutely outrageous and counter-productive. Failed to hit target, so we will take away a substantial financial resource which will inevitably reduce efficiencies in other parts of the service. Who gets the money while we and OUR NHS gets shafted. Give us the same funding they get in the South or Scotland and stop skewing us over. Fanny Free House
  • Score: -11

2:44pm Tue 2 Sep 14

yorkshirelad says...

Well CRWPROJ.... Not sure what self employment you're in but you need to get your financial facts sorting. So you can buy the same cover for the amount you pay in NI...really? Have you even looked at the small print of private health policies? How much do you think the premiums would be as you got older or developed an expensive illness? No private health insurance can come anywhere close to matching the cover the NHS gives.

Sure if you're fit and healthy you'll be paying for not much at all...but the whole idea is that we all pay so that people are covered when they have the need...it might be you one day! And yes...we all pay to look after those unfortunate people carrying illnesses that no private insurer would ever look it. It's the mark of a decent decent society....despite the rise in post-Thatcher selfishness I think most people in Britain still go by decency.

And as for the rant about public sector and NHS salaries....what planet are you on? I guess the one fed by the Daily Mail...but it may be worth checking your facts about NHS salaries before spouting public ally about them.

Perfect the NHS ain't but it's incredibly good value...one of the best in the world for value. Like a previous poster said....the endless denigration of the NHS is to make us fall for the privatisation agenda. They must think we're fools!
Well CRWPROJ.... Not sure what self employment you're in but you need to get your financial facts sorting. So you can buy the same cover for the amount you pay in NI...really? Have you even looked at the small print of private health policies? How much do you think the premiums would be as you got older or developed an expensive illness? No private health insurance can come anywhere close to matching the cover the NHS gives. Sure if you're fit and healthy you'll be paying for not much at all...but the whole idea is that we all pay so that people are covered when they have the need...it might be you one day! And yes...we all pay to look after those unfortunate people carrying illnesses that no private insurer would ever look it. It's the mark of a decent decent society....despite the rise in post-Thatcher selfishness I think most people in Britain still go by decency. And as for the rant about public sector and NHS salaries....what planet are you on? I guess the one fed by the Daily Mail...but it may be worth checking your facts about NHS salaries before spouting public ally about them. Perfect the NHS ain't but it's incredibly good value...one of the best in the world for value. Like a previous poster said....the endless denigration of the NHS is to make us fall for the privatisation agenda. They must think we're fools! yorkshirelad
  • Score: 9

2:50pm Tue 2 Sep 14

JHardacre says...

Daft as it sounds, A&E do not receive payment for treating a patient if that patient returns within 30 days - even for something completely different!
Daft as it sounds, A&E do not receive payment for treating a patient if that patient returns within 30 days - even for something completely different! JHardacre
  • Score: 6

3:48pm Tue 2 Sep 14

samana says...

One of York Hospitals "consultants" is arrogant and totally unhelpful to Patients.
I had to have a 20 minute minor surgical procedure done and was given an appointment 5 and 1/2 hours before it would be done!!.
I had to sit wearing nothing but a dressing gown in an unaired waiting room with NO magazines or fresh water available--.
I wasn't told that there would be a 5 and 1/2 hour wait--after 3 and 1/2 hours I asked why I was waiting so .long and the nurse told me that the "consultant" was responsible for the prolonged waiting time.
After 5 hours I was told that Id have to wait an extra 1 and 1/2 hours!!!.
I walked out in great disappointment --and quite angry too..
There was NO one to complain to except a "middle manager" who was totally unsympathetic--takin
g the "consultants" side and making out that I should have been so grateful that he was willing to do this minor procedure.
He acted like a "little Hitler towards me.
One of York Hospitals "consultants" is arrogant and totally unhelpful to Patients. I had to have a 20 minute minor surgical procedure done and was given an appointment 5 and 1/2 hours before it would be done!!. I had to sit wearing nothing but a dressing gown in an unaired waiting room with NO magazines or fresh water available--. I wasn't told that there would be a 5 and 1/2 hour wait--after 3 and 1/2 hours I asked why I was waiting so .long and the nurse told me that the "consultant" was responsible for the prolonged waiting time. After 5 hours I was told that Id have to wait an extra 1 and 1/2 hours!!!. I walked out in great disappointment --and quite angry too.. There was NO one to complain to except a "middle manager" who was totally unsympathetic--takin g the "consultants" side and making out that I should have been so grateful that he was willing to do this minor procedure. He acted like a "little Hitler towards me. samana
  • Score: 6

4:51pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Jack Ham says...

I wonder what Labours parliamentary candidate Mark Hayes who also chairs the CCG responsible for imposing the fine thinks of this.

Funny none of the usual Labour councillors have come out (using their real names) to criticise this.
I wonder what Labours parliamentary candidate Mark Hayes who also chairs the CCG responsible for imposing the fine thinks of this. Funny none of the usual Labour councillors have come out (using their real names) to criticise this. Jack Ham
  • Score: -21

4:59pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Garrowby Turnoff says...

The only country on Earth who could sustain a crackpot NHS system like this is an oil Emirate state which is pumping oil out of the ground at a million barrels a day. During the past five years I've paid for my initial consultation with a specialist to jump the 3 month queue offered by the NHS. It's the only way to get seen before any complaint becomes chronic.

The £30billion NHS shortfall predicted by Mr Crowley would cripple any recovery from recession and will lead to more and more people going 'private' or abroad to receive treatment. Will the NHS issue arrest warrants for the thousands and thousands who'll do this?
The only country on Earth who could sustain a crackpot NHS system like this is an oil Emirate state which is pumping oil out of the ground at a million barrels a day. During the past five years I've paid for my initial consultation with a specialist to jump the 3 month queue offered by the NHS. It's the only way to get seen before any complaint becomes chronic. The £30billion NHS shortfall predicted by Mr Crowley would cripple any recovery from recession and will lead to more and more people going 'private' or abroad to receive treatment. Will the NHS issue arrest warrants for the thousands and thousands who'll do this? Garrowby Turnoff
  • Score: 1

5:02pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Chris HM says...

samana wrote:
One of York Hospitals "consultants" is arrogant and totally unhelpful to Patients.
I had to have a 20 minute minor surgical procedure done and was given an appointment 5 and 1/2 hours before it would be done!!.
I had to sit wearing nothing but a dressing gown in an unaired waiting room with NO magazines or fresh water available--.
I wasn't told that there would be a 5 and 1/2 hour wait--after 3 and 1/2 hours I asked why I was waiting so .long and the nurse told me that the "consultant" was responsible for the prolonged waiting time.
After 5 hours I was told that Id have to wait an extra 1 and 1/2 hours!!!.
I walked out in great disappointment --and quite angry too..
There was NO one to complain to except a "middle manager" who was totally unsympathetic--takin

g the "consultants" side and making out that I should have been so grateful that he was willing to do this minor procedure.
He acted like a "little Hitler towards me.
In that case you need to be making your complaint to PALS so that it is monitored and recorded. This thread is about resourcing the NHS - not individual examples of poor service.
[quote][p][bold]samana[/bold] wrote: One of York Hospitals "consultants" is arrogant and totally unhelpful to Patients. I had to have a 20 minute minor surgical procedure done and was given an appointment 5 and 1/2 hours before it would be done!!. I had to sit wearing nothing but a dressing gown in an unaired waiting room with NO magazines or fresh water available--. I wasn't told that there would be a 5 and 1/2 hour wait--after 3 and 1/2 hours I asked why I was waiting so .long and the nurse told me that the "consultant" was responsible for the prolonged waiting time. After 5 hours I was told that Id have to wait an extra 1 and 1/2 hours!!!. I walked out in great disappointment --and quite angry too.. There was NO one to complain to except a "middle manager" who was totally unsympathetic--takin g the "consultants" side and making out that I should have been so grateful that he was willing to do this minor procedure. He acted like a "little Hitler towards me.[/p][/quote]In that case you need to be making your complaint to PALS so that it is monitored and recorded. This thread is about resourcing the NHS - not individual examples of poor service. Chris HM
  • Score: 10

5:39pm Tue 2 Sep 14

xxwitchyxx says...

againstthecuts wrote:
Can anyone see it's a Tory plot by making the nhs fail so they open it to privatisation
They are already privatising parts of the NHS.
[quote][p][bold]againstthecuts[/bold] wrote: Can anyone see it's a Tory plot by making the nhs fail so they open it to privatisation[/p][/quote]They are already privatising parts of the NHS. xxwitchyxx
  • Score: 5

5:52pm Tue 2 Sep 14

old_geezer says...

"not all doom and gloom", Mr Crowley? You're helping to push it in that direction!

Comments above about privatisation are spot on. Look up "TTIP", being negotiated right now; if not subject to public pressure (thanks for nothing, press and TV) this will end up with the UK government being sued by healthcare companies unless it breaks up the NHS for privatisation.
"not all doom and gloom", Mr Crowley? You're helping to push it in that direction! Comments above about privatisation are spot on. Look up "TTIP", being negotiated right now; if not subject to public pressure (thanks for nothing, press and TV) this will end up with the UK government being sued by healthcare companies unless it breaks up the NHS for privatisation. old_geezer
  • Score: 4

6:47pm Tue 2 Sep 14

perplexed says...

Jack Ham wrote:
I wonder what Labours parliamentary candidate Mark Hayes who also chairs the CCG responsible for imposing the fine thinks of this.

Funny none of the usual Labour councillors have come out (using their real names) to criticise this.
Nor has Coun Steward nor any of the local Tory MP's who voted for these 'visionary ' changes when they went through the Commons. Funny that.
[quote][p][bold]Jack Ham[/bold] wrote: I wonder what Labours parliamentary candidate Mark Hayes who also chairs the CCG responsible for imposing the fine thinks of this. Funny none of the usual Labour councillors have come out (using their real names) to criticise this.[/p][/quote]Nor has Coun Steward nor any of the local Tory MP's who voted for these 'visionary ' changes when they went through the Commons. Funny that. perplexed
  • Score: -1

7:42pm Tue 2 Sep 14

muckybutt says...

Going to loose more when we sue the pants off them for medical negligence - incompetent idiots in A&E
Going to loose more when we sue the pants off them for medical negligence - incompetent idiots in A&E muckybutt
  • Score: -6

8:11pm Tue 2 Sep 14

Jonlogical says...

So when the government make one of their monumental **** ups costing Billions, like destabilising the Middle East, can I refuse to pay my tax?
So when the government make one of their monumental **** ups costing Billions, like destabilising the Middle East, can I refuse to pay my tax? Jonlogical
  • Score: 4

9:59pm Tue 2 Sep 14

karensworld55 says...

patrick cowley has not got the sense he was born with,due to buffoons like him this is why the public are at risk from not being able to access procedures that are available on the NHS but with the mis-management of monies by people like crowley they are un-able to access these procedures.I would like to see crowley pay for medical expenses if he received the minimum wage,Crowley and the CCG of York should hang their heads in shame they are totally mis-managing these issues and putting patient lives at risk on a daily basis
patrick cowley has not got the sense he was born with,due to buffoons like him this is why the public are at risk from not being able to access procedures that are available on the NHS but with the mis-management of monies by people like crowley they are un-able to access these procedures.I would like to see crowley pay for medical expenses if he received the minimum wage,Crowley and the CCG of York should hang their heads in shame they are totally mis-managing these issues and putting patient lives at risk on a daily basis karensworld55
  • Score: 4

12:10am Wed 3 Sep 14

York1900 says...

againstthecuts wrote:
Can anyone see it's a Tory plot by making the nhs fail so they open it to privatisation
Well Tories have only pushed the NHS towards privatisation since the 70s by every time they get in to power they change the way the NHS is run and split it in smaller parts and any profit making parts of the NHS sold off

Meaning that the NHS as to buy supplies from companies that were once part of the NHS

So to make sure that the NHS goes broke they then can turn round and say that it can not be funded from taxs only and privatisation is the only option

The only trouble with what the Tories are doing is that no future government can reverse the damage they have done because it would cost too much

We have all ready seen it with the 70s to 90s Tory governments the damage they did then could not be undone because of the costs
[quote][p][bold]againstthecuts[/bold] wrote: Can anyone see it's a Tory plot by making the nhs fail so they open it to privatisation[/p][/quote]Well Tories have only pushed the NHS towards privatisation since the 70s by every time they get in to power they change the way the NHS is run and split it in smaller parts and any profit making parts of the NHS sold off Meaning that the NHS as to buy supplies from companies that were once part of the NHS So to make sure that the NHS goes broke they then can turn round and say that it can not be funded from taxs only and privatisation is the only option The only trouble with what the Tories are doing is that no future government can reverse the damage they have done because it would cost too much We have all ready seen it with the 70s to 90s Tory governments the damage they did then could not be undone because of the costs York1900
  • Score: 9

8:47am Wed 3 Sep 14

Dr Brian says...

so this government once again shows how uncaring it is to patients- fines that mean patient care will suffer - still the money will save of a few bean counter's who monitor these stats jobs!
so this government once again shows how uncaring it is to patients- fines that mean patient care will suffer - still the money will save of a few bean counter's who monitor these stats jobs! Dr Brian
  • Score: 3

8:53am Wed 3 Sep 14

Dr Brian says...

muckybutt wrote:
Going to loose more when we sue the pants off them for medical negligence - incompetent idiots in A&E
They may - or may not be incompitent but I bet they know the difference between lose and loose
[quote][p][bold]muckybutt[/bold] wrote: Going to loose more when we sue the pants off them for medical negligence - incompetent idiots in A&E[/p][/quote]They may - or may not be incompitent but I bet they know the difference between lose and loose Dr Brian
  • Score: 3

9:02am Wed 3 Sep 14

CRWPROJ says...

Just to expand on my comment above relating to NHS financing (contrary to a following post twisting the details into a question of decency! But everybody is welcome to their own opinion..).
The article by Kate Liptrot identifies that the cost is "£2.5 million in the first three months of this year and is on target to come to £10 million".
To demonstrate these numbers, this relates to a forecast loss of £192,000 per week. Loss of 2 consultants per week, using the figures presented? That is over £830,000 by the end of a month. A forecast figure such as this should raise concerns within the hospital and actions should be taken immediately. Perhaps this may be seen by others as me "stating the obvious". I am sure it would be of interest to all readers if Mz Liptrot did a follow up story next week, to interview Mr. Patrick Crowley to find out what actions he has taken to prevent the further loss bearing in mind that the running forecast will then be £192,000 higher than this week, and subsequently eaten into the costs of another ward.
To all the genuine reader/voters out there, please do not vote on this post on whether you agree with my comments, please vote positive if you would like K.Liptrot to do a follow up article (in the very near future).
Just to expand on my comment above relating to NHS financing (contrary to a following post twisting the details into a question of decency! But everybody is welcome to their own opinion..). The article by Kate Liptrot identifies that the cost is "£2.5 million in the first three months of this year and is on target to come to £10 million". To demonstrate these numbers, this relates to a forecast loss of £192,000 per week. Loss of 2 consultants per week, using the figures presented? That is over £830,000 by the end of a month. A forecast figure such as this should raise concerns within the hospital and actions should be taken immediately. Perhaps this may be seen by others as me "stating the obvious". I am sure it would be of interest to all readers if Mz Liptrot did a follow up story next week, to interview Mr. Patrick Crowley to find out what actions he has taken to prevent the further loss bearing in mind that the running forecast will then be £192,000 higher than this week, and subsequently eaten into the costs of another ward. To all the genuine reader/voters out there, please do not vote on this post on whether you agree with my comments, please vote positive if you would like K.Liptrot to do a follow up article (in the very near future). CRWPROJ
  • Score: 2

10:45am Wed 3 Sep 14

I'msohappy.com says...

Totally ridiculous, what is the point of the fines as this only makes the already stretched finances even worse. Instead of imposing this system why not offer management more help on managing the situation which in the end would help all involved. Where does the fine money actually go?
I know one way York hospital could save an enormous amount of money each year - stop footing the bill for taxis to take people home after a visit to A & E, everyone has a family member or friend they could rely on at some point but if they say they don't then the hospital provides them with a comfy ride home and all at our expense.
Totally ridiculous, what is the point of the fines as this only makes the already stretched finances even worse. Instead of imposing this system why not offer management more help on managing the situation which in the end would help all involved. Where does the fine money actually go? I know one way York hospital could save an enormous amount of money each year - stop footing the bill for taxis to take people home after a visit to A & E, everyone has a family member or friend they could rely on at some point but if they say they don't then the hospital provides them with a comfy ride home and all at our expense. I'msohappy.com
  • Score: 1

8:29pm Wed 3 Sep 14

Digeorge says...

OK I go to Newcastle and get my 'infections' diagnosed with in 5-10 minutes that should have been done YEARS ago, I go to Newcastle and sort out many things including surgery, proper discussions about my care and treatment, I get my hearing aids which I should have had YEARS ago which actually was affecting my job performance as a secretary and yet how bizarre that stupid registrar sent me to some counselling place for two years in a queue really to do psycho tests to see if I had learning difficulties (what a fxck waste of time and 4 appointments). and in the wrong counselling queue for years. Only you don't need those siding tests when you have a degree. What paper was he writing along with all those other stupid consultants covering up for their colleagues in Leeds.

You ring PALS in Newcastle, they 'help' you sort out things in 5 minutes, you ring PALS in York that say 'write a complaint'. So you end up writing a complaint pages long as it is complex that could have been done by a phone call between consultants (given they talk to each other regularly between York and Leeds) to cover up my care - well just I am Leeds research and mess for the past 20 years so know what goes on. Just Prof stupid woman just happened to treat with the very drug for years and years and not put it on record.

But there again, I can write a book about both Leeds and York that isn't favourable.

How much money has been wasted on munchausens/factitio
us illness shaken baby syndrome between Scarborough and York, yes, I know as the whole thing is a farce isn't it and all the names to go with it and all the GPs involved. They all have rare genetic conditions of which they are being denied treatment and care. One you nearly sent to jail. What a farce, I sat in court for five weeks for that case, shame on you.

Your complaints procedure is a farce as well, time for apologies as really have messed up. You never learn at all that's why your in a mess.
OK I go to Newcastle and get my 'infections' diagnosed with in 5-10 minutes that should have been done YEARS ago, I go to Newcastle and sort out many things including surgery, proper discussions about my care and treatment, I get my hearing aids which I should have had YEARS ago which actually was affecting my job performance as a secretary and yet how bizarre that stupid registrar sent me to some counselling place for two years in a queue really to do psycho tests to see if I had learning difficulties (what a fxck waste of time and 4 appointments). and in the wrong counselling queue for years. Only you don't need those siding tests when you have a degree. What paper was he writing along with all those other stupid consultants covering up for their colleagues in Leeds. You ring PALS in Newcastle, they 'help' you sort out things in 5 minutes, you ring PALS in York that say 'write a complaint'. So you end up writing a complaint pages long as it is complex that could have been done by a phone call between consultants (given they talk to each other regularly between York and Leeds) to cover up my care - well just I am Leeds research and mess for the past 20 years so know what goes on. Just Prof stupid woman just happened to treat with the very drug for years and years and not put it on record. But there again, I can write a book about both Leeds and York that isn't favourable. How much money has been wasted on munchausens/factitio us illness shaken baby syndrome between Scarborough and York, yes, I know as the whole thing is a farce isn't it and all the names to go with it and all the GPs involved. They all have rare genetic conditions of which they are being denied treatment and care. One you nearly sent to jail. What a farce, I sat in court for five weeks for that case, shame on you. Your complaints procedure is a farce as well, time for apologies as really have messed up. You never learn at all that's why your in a mess. Digeorge
  • Score: 1
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