Punch Bowl regulars launch campaign amid fears of pub closure

Paul Giller, a regular at The Punch Bowl pub, with the petition he has organised to save the pub in Lowther Street, amid fears it may close to become a Tesco supermarket

Paul Giller, a regular at The Punch Bowl pub, with the petition he has organised to save the pub in Lowther Street, amid fears it may close to become a Tesco supermarket

First published in News

REGULARS at a York pub have launched a petition calling for it to be saved amid fears it faces closure, writes Debbie Millar.

The campaign was launched after customers heard that the Punch Bowl, which has been on Lowther Street in The Groves for at least 156 years, could be sold by owner Enterprise Inns to Tesco.

A public meeting is also being held at the pub at 3pm tomorrow about the campaign, to which everyone is being invited.

Customer Paul Giller, 65, who said he organised the petition after hearing about the threat of closure from pub staff, said he was registered blind and found the pub a safe haven, as well as an asset to the community.

He said: “The other problem, with it being a supermarket, is the position.

“If you get people parking in Lowther Street, which they would have to do, then nobody’s going to get by. There is nowhere to park.

“More importantly, it’s a community place.

“It’s just not good for the community or the environment.”

He also claimed having a supermarket on the pub site would worsen the problem of people drinking on the streets in the area.

“Tesco sells cheap drink and we’ve got a problem in this area with drinking on the street as it is, and it would just increase it.”

The petition has been attracting hundreds of signatures in the pub and from nearby businesses.

Mr Giller said: “First of all, we’re challenging Enterprise Inns because it’s a local place.

“It’s a community pub with a friendly atmosphere.

He said: “Hopefully it will reconsider, but if need be, we’ll take it as far as we have to go.”

The owner of the nearby Diamond Mini Market, Eulent Ciceq, said he was also against any moves to close the pub.

He said: “It’s going to affect not just business but all of the area: the residents, the traffic and all the small businesses.

“Sometimes I go to pick up my daughter from school and it takes ten minutes. With extra traffic, it will be worse.” In the past decade, the Groves area has lost The Magpie, The Reindeer and The Groves Working Men’s Club. The Castle Howard Ox is the only remaining pub in the vicinity.

Enterprise Inns, Tesco and the pub’s landlady all declined to comment to The Press.

The campaign comes just days after a national organisation called for a change in legislation to stop the practice of pubs being converted into other businesses.

Earlier this month, the Campaign for Real Ale (Camra) urged the Government to do more to protect pubs after research showed 31 pubs closed across the UK every week.

Comments (34)

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11:05am Sat 23 Aug 14

Dave Ruddock says...

Stop these Supermarkets taking over the High Streets and pushing out local shops, and public houses. There is far to many (Local Large Supermarkets) Pubs used to be the center of a community and I think they should still be, Communities have a Church, Pub, and local shops, NOT a supermarket with robot like attitude to ant community.
Go For It "PAUL"
Stop these Supermarkets taking over the High Streets and pushing out local shops, and public houses. There is far to many (Local Large Supermarkets) Pubs used to be the center of a community and I think they should still be, Communities have a Church, Pub, and local shops, NOT a supermarket with robot like attitude to ant community. Go For It "PAUL" Dave Ruddock
  • Score: 43

11:40am Sat 23 Aug 14

Tug job says...

Dave Ruddock wrote:
Stop these Supermarkets taking over the High Streets and pushing out local shops, and public houses. There is far to many (Local Large Supermarkets) Pubs used to be the center of a community and I think they should still be, Communities have a Church, Pub, and local shops, NOT a supermarket with robot like attitude to ant community.
Go For It "PAUL"
Sadly, though, pubs are unable to compete with the discounted offers of the major supermarkets. If people don't go their local pub because they can get cheaper booze elsewhere it's only a matter of time before the pub has to close. No government is likely to legislate on this issue - the current lot baulked at unit pricing of alcohol - as it's seen to be interfering with the free market. A shame but, perhaps inevitable. I suspect that the only pubs likely to survive will be those which are able to cater for tourists and those which support the late night scene.
[quote][p][bold]Dave Ruddock[/bold] wrote: Stop these Supermarkets taking over the High Streets and pushing out local shops, and public houses. There is far to many (Local Large Supermarkets) Pubs used to be the center of a community and I think they should still be, Communities have a Church, Pub, and local shops, NOT a supermarket with robot like attitude to ant community. Go For It "PAUL"[/p][/quote]Sadly, though, pubs are unable to compete with the discounted offers of the major supermarkets. If people don't go their local pub because they can get cheaper booze elsewhere it's only a matter of time before the pub has to close. No government is likely to legislate on this issue - the current lot baulked at unit pricing of alcohol - as it's seen to be interfering with the free market. A shame but, perhaps inevitable. I suspect that the only pubs likely to survive will be those which are able to cater for tourists and those which support the late night scene. Tug job
  • Score: 15

12:18pm Sat 23 Aug 14

city chick says...

I work in the punch and.it will be sadly missed, we.are.never empty and have lots of community events Un like the ox we
Have more space to hold these events
I work in the punch and.it will be sadly missed, we.are.never empty and have lots of community events Un like the ox we Have more space to hold these events city chick
  • Score: 19

12:37pm Sat 23 Aug 14

DJS83 says...

The problem of drinking in the groves is not helped by the diamond mart whose main business is selling strong lager and cider to people from arc light etc.
The problem of drinking in the groves is not helped by the diamond mart whose main business is selling strong lager and cider to people from arc light etc. DJS83
  • Score: 26

1:23pm Sat 23 Aug 14

marvell says...

CAMRA launched a national campaign recently against exactly what is happening here: http://pubsmatter.or
g.uk

The regulars at The Punch Bowl should enlist their help - one of the York CAMRA members was interviewed recently by Jon Cowap on Radio York about pub closures and planning laws.
CAMRA launched a national campaign recently against exactly what is happening here: http://pubsmatter.or g.uk The regulars at The Punch Bowl should enlist their help - one of the York CAMRA members was interviewed recently by Jon Cowap on Radio York about pub closures and planning laws. marvell
  • Score: 22

4:59pm Sat 23 Aug 14

dmw2008 says...

Another Tescos? Another one? You're joking right?

Do we need another one. We do not. End of.
Another Tescos? Another one? You're joking right? Do we need another one. We do not. End of. dmw2008
  • Score: 30

5:20pm Sat 23 Aug 14

julia brica says...

The death knell of this pub was installing that hoyty toyty rah rah horse besotted ex private school landlady. Folks left in droves......utter disaster.
The death knell of this pub was installing that hoyty toyty rah rah horse besotted ex private school landlady. Folks left in droves......utter disaster. julia brica
  • Score: -17

5:41pm Sat 23 Aug 14

julia brica says...

My information is that she no longer harbours ambitions towards the licenced trade and the world of rugby has been shelved.
My information is that she no longer harbours ambitions towards the licenced trade and the world of rugby has been shelved. julia brica
  • Score: -23

5:55pm Sat 23 Aug 14

notpedallingpaul says...

dmw2008 wrote:
Another Tescos? Another one? You're joking right?

Do we need another one. We do not. End of.
I have to agree, the supermarkets are the death nell of local shops, I agree lots of people want them as the are convenient and do stock a lot of items the local shops can't, but this comes at a time when supermarkets are taking over the city centre, keep supermarkets on the outskirts of the city, run buses to them for those that do not drive or have a car, but do we really want a big tesco sign as a blot on the landscape?, but if that is what the majority of people want then it probably will happen.
[quote][p][bold]dmw2008[/bold] wrote: Another Tescos? Another one? You're joking right? Do we need another one. We do not. End of.[/p][/quote]I have to agree, the supermarkets are the death nell of local shops, I agree lots of people want them as the are convenient and do stock a lot of items the local shops can't, but this comes at a time when supermarkets are taking over the city centre, keep supermarkets on the outskirts of the city, run buses to them for those that do not drive or have a car, but do we really want a big tesco sign as a blot on the landscape?, but if that is what the majority of people want then it probably will happen. notpedallingpaul
  • Score: -12

6:25pm Sat 23 Aug 14

goatman says...

Never been in but it always looks popular. It's there for the locals so SAVE IT!
Never been in but it always looks popular. It's there for the locals so SAVE IT! goatman
  • Score: 11

6:36pm Sat 23 Aug 14

wildthing666 says...

Tesco's and the like will not be content until they hold a monopoly on the food and drink industry then they will squeeze the brewery's until only the strong survive. Then they will be at each others throats until there is only one, in the words from the film highlander There can be only one! And tesco wants to be that one.
Tesco's and the like will not be content until they hold a monopoly on the food and drink industry then they will squeeze the brewery's until only the strong survive. Then they will be at each others throats until there is only one, in the words from the film highlander There can be only one! And tesco wants to be that one. wildthing666
  • Score: 11

8:12pm Sat 23 Aug 14

malonemalone says...

Iiving in the area I cant wait until it closes and it might get shot of the drunks that seem to just sit all day until they can hardly walk.......ideal for a Tesco to clean up the area a bit. I for one will not be signing any petition.........fin
gers crossed for Tesco and its brilliant they do not need planning permission by taking over a pub so it will be a done deal already.
Iiving in the area I cant wait until it closes and it might get shot of the drunks that seem to just sit all day until they can hardly walk.......ideal for a Tesco to clean up the area a bit. I for one will not be signing any petition.........fin gers crossed for Tesco and its brilliant they do not need planning permission by taking over a pub so it will be a done deal already. malonemalone
  • Score: 1

8:14pm Sat 23 Aug 14

malonemalone says...

julia brica wrote:
The death knell of this pub was installing that hoyty toyty rah rah horse besotted ex private school landlady. Folks left in droves......utter disaster.
to make way for all the vile riff raff you currently see sitting outside you mean ?
[quote][p][bold]julia brica[/bold] wrote: The death knell of this pub was installing that hoyty toyty rah rah horse besotted ex private school landlady. Folks left in droves......utter disaster.[/p][/quote]to make way for all the vile riff raff you currently see sitting outside you mean ? malonemalone
  • Score: 12

9:04pm Sat 23 Aug 14

Tom6187 says...

It's an awful area anyway, tesco will need a good security guard around there.
It's an awful area anyway, tesco will need a good security guard around there. Tom6187
  • Score: 17

9:35pm Sat 23 Aug 14

Noods333 says...

topless barmaids would do trade a great wonder.
topless barmaids would do trade a great wonder. Noods333
  • Score: 9

9:35pm Sat 23 Aug 14

goatman says...

Perhaps malonemalone they can all come with their cheap cider and si in your garden when their pub has gone. Even if it's only those that you see as undesirables sitting there it's performing as a community centre for the less fortunate to meet at. Or would you rather they were placed in a 'camp'?
Perhaps malonemalone they can all come with their cheap cider and si in your garden when their pub has gone. Even if it's only those that you see as undesirables sitting there it's performing as a community centre for the less fortunate to meet at. Or would you rather they were placed in a 'camp'? goatman
  • Score: 6

10:03pm Sat 23 Aug 14

eeoodares says...

julia brica wrote:
The death knell of this pub was installing that hoyty toyty rah rah horse besotted ex private school landlady. Folks left in droves......utter disaster.
Would you like salt and vinegar with you chip?
[quote][p][bold]julia brica[/bold] wrote: The death knell of this pub was installing that hoyty toyty rah rah horse besotted ex private school landlady. Folks left in droves......utter disaster.[/p][/quote]Would you like salt and vinegar with you chip? eeoodares
  • Score: 5

8:14am Sun 24 Aug 14

browbeaten says...

Register it as a community asset under the localism act. That should help things along.
Register it as a community asset under the localism act. That should help things along. browbeaten
  • Score: 2

8:44am Sun 24 Aug 14

steaknchips says...

The real problem for pubs is the pubcos like enterprise inns who only think of making as much money as quickly as possible, nobody wants to take on pubs nowadays as there's no money in it so eventually they will all be supermarkets
The real problem for pubs is the pubcos like enterprise inns who only think of making as much money as quickly as possible, nobody wants to take on pubs nowadays as there's no money in it so eventually they will all be supermarkets steaknchips
  • Score: 4

10:23am Sun 24 Aug 14

magnard says...

Pubs are private businesses not public services, the owners of this pub would be failing their shareholders if they didn't do the best deal whether that was keeping it open or selling it to Tescos.
As for whether we 'need' another Tescos people are just saying they don't want one and trying to impose their dislikes on everyone else. If a new Tescos isn't needed it will go out of business. 'End of'. The fact is Tescos will have done their homework and will be pretty sure this one will attract customers (including some of those vociferously against its being there).
If every pub in York became a Tescos it would be because people got what they really want, not what they say they want, by voting with their money and their custom. And not because of some fantasy evil empire 'depriving' the community of non-essential non-social services like 'the local pub'.
Pubs are private businesses not public services, the owners of this pub would be failing their shareholders if they didn't do the best deal whether that was keeping it open or selling it to Tescos. As for whether we 'need' another Tescos people are just saying they don't want one and trying to impose their dislikes on everyone else. If a new Tescos isn't needed it will go out of business. 'End of'. The fact is Tescos will have done their homework and will be pretty sure this one will attract customers (including some of those vociferously against its being there). If every pub in York became a Tescos it would be because people got what they really want, not what they say they want, by voting with their money and their custom. And not because of some fantasy evil empire 'depriving' the community of non-essential non-social services like 'the local pub'. magnard
  • Score: -5

10:45am Sun 24 Aug 14

malonemalone says...

goatman wrote:
Perhaps malonemalone they can all come with their cheap cider and si in your garden when their pub has gone. Even if it's only those that you see as undesirables sitting there it's performing as a community centre for the less fortunate to meet at. Or would you rather they were placed in a 'camp'?
Goatman.............
they frequently to and use the area and gardens and alleys as a toilet so thanks opening the conversation up further and as for the 'camp' that's how your mind works I had never thought about it before but now you mention it splendid idea thanks
[quote][p][bold]goatman[/bold] wrote: Perhaps malonemalone they can all come with their cheap cider and si in your garden when their pub has gone. Even if it's only those that you see as undesirables sitting there it's performing as a community centre for the less fortunate to meet at. Or would you rather they were placed in a 'camp'?[/p][/quote]Goatman............. they frequently to and use the area and gardens and alleys as a toilet so thanks opening the conversation up further and as for the 'camp' that's how your mind works I had never thought about it before but now you mention it splendid idea thanks malonemalone
  • Score: -3

11:52am Sun 24 Aug 14

Mark Newcombe says...

The Furze Platt Action Group (FPAG) fought long and hard to lessen the impact of the new Tesco Express at the site of the Golden Harp in Maidenhead. Permitted development laws meant that the 20 year lease was secured before anything could be done about it. No amount of public protest, listing the pub as an Asset of Community Value (ACV) or applying for an Article 4 direction could prevent the loss of another much loved local.

If you would like to protect your local from suffering the same fate as the Golden Harp in the future please sign our HM Government e-petition:

“That the Government help protect community pubs in England by ensuring that full planning permission and community consultation are required before community pubs are allowed to be converted to betting shops, supermarkets and pay-day loan stores or other uses, or are allowed to be demolished.”

If you can spare the time please sign the petition and share it with as many friends and groups as you can via Facebook, Twitter (#saveourpubs), and/or emails etc.

http://epetitions.di
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/66572
The Furze Platt Action Group (FPAG) fought long and hard to lessen the impact of the new Tesco Express at the site of the Golden Harp in Maidenhead. Permitted development laws meant that the 20 year lease was secured before anything could be done about it. No amount of public protest, listing the pub as an Asset of Community Value (ACV) or applying for an Article 4 direction could prevent the loss of another much loved local. If you would like to protect your local from suffering the same fate as the Golden Harp in the future please sign our HM Government e-petition: “That the Government help protect community pubs in England by ensuring that full planning permission and community consultation are required before community pubs are allowed to be converted to betting shops, supermarkets and pay-day loan stores or other uses, or are allowed to be demolished.” If you can spare the time please sign the petition and share it with as many friends and groups as you can via Facebook, Twitter (#saveourpubs), and/or emails etc. http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/66572 Mark Newcombe
  • Score: 3

5:00pm Sun 24 Aug 14

Jonlogical says...

And when the pub closes, will those that protested boycott Tesco?
And when the pub closes, will those that protested boycott Tesco? Jonlogical
  • Score: 9

6:15pm Sun 24 Aug 14

stevendurham33 says...

Tesco might worship at the greedy alter of money but how much happyness do's money buy + is'nt only a short term gain when all said + done written by bulekingfisher
Tesco might worship at the greedy alter of money but how much happyness do's money buy + is'nt only a short term gain when all said + done written by bulekingfisher stevendurham33
  • Score: -1

8:38pm Sun 24 Aug 14

snickelwaysofyork says...

Mark Newcombe wrote:
The Furze Platt Action Group (FPAG) fought long and hard to lessen the impact of the new Tesco Express at the site of the Golden Harp in Maidenhead. Permitted development laws meant that the 20 year lease was secured before anything could be done about it. No amount of public protest, listing the pub as an Asset of Community Value (ACV) or applying for an Article 4 direction could prevent the loss of another much loved local.

If you would like to protect your local from suffering the same fate as the Golden Harp in the future please sign our HM Government e-petition:

“That the Government help protect community pubs in England by ensuring that full planning permission and community consultation are required before community pubs are allowed to be converted to betting shops, supermarkets and pay-day loan stores or other uses, or are allowed to be demolished.”

If you can spare the time please sign the petition and share it with as many friends and groups as you can via Facebook, Twitter (#saveourpubs), and/or emails etc.

http://epetitions.di

rect.gov.uk/petition

s/66572
Thank you Mark... because if we're apathetic, as the great British public so often is, ultimately we'll only have ourselves to blame when all our wonderful character, traditions and culture have been stripped from the landscape.
[quote][p][bold]Mark Newcombe[/bold] wrote: The Furze Platt Action Group (FPAG) fought long and hard to lessen the impact of the new Tesco Express at the site of the Golden Harp in Maidenhead. Permitted development laws meant that the 20 year lease was secured before anything could be done about it. No amount of public protest, listing the pub as an Asset of Community Value (ACV) or applying for an Article 4 direction could prevent the loss of another much loved local. If you would like to protect your local from suffering the same fate as the Golden Harp in the future please sign our HM Government e-petition: “That the Government help protect community pubs in England by ensuring that full planning permission and community consultation are required before community pubs are allowed to be converted to betting shops, supermarkets and pay-day loan stores or other uses, or are allowed to be demolished.” If you can spare the time please sign the petition and share it with as many friends and groups as you can via Facebook, Twitter (#saveourpubs), and/or emails etc. http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/66572[/p][/quote]Thank you Mark... because if we're apathetic, as the great British public so often is, ultimately we'll only have ourselves to blame when all our wonderful character, traditions and culture have been stripped from the landscape. snickelwaysofyork
  • Score: 5

9:51pm Sun 24 Aug 14

magnard says...

snickelwaysofyork wrote:
Mark Newcombe wrote:
The Furze Platt Action Group (FPAG) fought long and hard to lessen the impact of the new Tesco Express at the site of the Golden Harp in Maidenhead. Permitted development laws meant that the 20 year lease was secured before anything could be done about it. No amount of public protest, listing the pub as an Asset of Community Value (ACV) or applying for an Article 4 direction could prevent the loss of another much loved local.

If you would like to protect your local from suffering the same fate as the Golden Harp in the future please sign our HM Government e-petition:

“That the Government help protect community pubs in England by ensuring that full planning permission and community consultation are required before community pubs are allowed to be converted to betting shops, supermarkets and pay-day loan stores or other uses, or are allowed to be demolished.”

If you can spare the time please sign the petition and share it with as many friends and groups as you can via Facebook, Twitter (#saveourpubs), and/or emails etc.

http://epetitions.di


rect.gov.uk/petition


s/66572
Thank you Mark... because if we're apathetic, as the great British public so often is, ultimately we'll only have ourselves to blame when all our wonderful character, traditions and culture have been stripped from the landscape.
My point exactly - people ultimately get what they want (rather than what heritage fantasists want to impose on us). In this case a Tescos rather than an uncompetitive and lets face it ugly pub - what's not to like?
[quote][p][bold]snickelwaysofyork[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mark Newcombe[/bold] wrote: The Furze Platt Action Group (FPAG) fought long and hard to lessen the impact of the new Tesco Express at the site of the Golden Harp in Maidenhead. Permitted development laws meant that the 20 year lease was secured before anything could be done about it. No amount of public protest, listing the pub as an Asset of Community Value (ACV) or applying for an Article 4 direction could prevent the loss of another much loved local. If you would like to protect your local from suffering the same fate as the Golden Harp in the future please sign our HM Government e-petition: “That the Government help protect community pubs in England by ensuring that full planning permission and community consultation are required before community pubs are allowed to be converted to betting shops, supermarkets and pay-day loan stores or other uses, or are allowed to be demolished.” If you can spare the time please sign the petition and share it with as many friends and groups as you can via Facebook, Twitter (#saveourpubs), and/or emails etc. http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/66572[/p][/quote]Thank you Mark... because if we're apathetic, as the great British public so often is, ultimately we'll only have ourselves to blame when all our wonderful character, traditions and culture have been stripped from the landscape.[/p][/quote]My point exactly - people ultimately get what they want (rather than what heritage fantasists want to impose on us). In this case a Tescos rather than an uncompetitive and lets face it ugly pub - what's not to like? magnard
  • Score: -2

8:41am Mon 25 Aug 14

farmerpalmer says...

Personally i dont like the look of the place but thats irrelevant - if its used and making money then surely it should be allowed to continue to trade and not be sold on by Enterprise Inns. Enterprise are an awful company - hammering their landlords to make more and more money, constantly resetting the beer prices as taking rise to hide the real profits.

What i really object to is yet another bloody Tesco! if diamond mart was on the site selling exactly the same products at the same price, it would not be particularly popular, but hang the blue sign.. and the fools flock in - see Low ousegate or piccadily as a great example - both had a mini market somewhere near that closed beforehand..

WAKE UP people - if you dont want these faceless corporates to take over then dont buy from them!

i havent shopped with Tesco for years.. break the cycle...
Personally i dont like the look of the place but thats irrelevant - if its used and making money then surely it should be allowed to continue to trade and not be sold on by Enterprise Inns. Enterprise are an awful company - hammering their landlords to make more and more money, constantly resetting the beer prices as taking rise to hide the real profits. What i really object to is yet another bloody Tesco! if diamond mart was on the site selling exactly the same products at the same price, it would not be particularly popular, but hang the blue sign.. and the fools flock in - see Low ousegate or piccadily as a great example - both had a mini market somewhere near that closed beforehand.. WAKE UP people - if you dont want these faceless corporates to take over then dont buy from them! i havent shopped with Tesco for years.. break the cycle... farmerpalmer
  • Score: 8

10:39am Mon 25 Aug 14

marvell says...

magnard wrote:
Pubs are private businesses not public services, the owners of this pub would be failing their shareholders if they didn't do the best deal whether that was keeping it open or selling it to Tescos.
As for whether we 'need' another Tescos people are just saying they don't want one and trying to impose their dislikes on everyone else. If a new Tescos isn't needed it will go out of business. 'End of'. The fact is Tescos will have done their homework and will be pretty sure this one will attract customers (including some of those vociferously against its being there).
If every pub in York became a Tescos it would be because people got what they really want, not what they say they want, by voting with their money and their custom. And not because of some fantasy evil empire 'depriving' the community of non-essential non-social services like 'the local pub'.
Your last sentence displays a fundamental lack of understanding of the value of the pub to a local community and there's not space in a comments section to educate you.

You also know next to nothing of the business behaviour of the large pub companies. Large pub companies sell groups of pubs to retailers as a job lot. Tesco may not have a clue whether this pub is viable for them or not if it is one of 20 they are buying.
[quote][p][bold]magnard[/bold] wrote: Pubs are private businesses not public services, the owners of this pub would be failing their shareholders if they didn't do the best deal whether that was keeping it open or selling it to Tescos. As for whether we 'need' another Tescos people are just saying they don't want one and trying to impose their dislikes on everyone else. If a new Tescos isn't needed it will go out of business. 'End of'. The fact is Tescos will have done their homework and will be pretty sure this one will attract customers (including some of those vociferously against its being there). If every pub in York became a Tescos it would be because people got what they really want, not what they say they want, by voting with their money and their custom. And not because of some fantasy evil empire 'depriving' the community of non-essential non-social services like 'the local pub'.[/p][/quote]Your last sentence displays a fundamental lack of understanding of the value of the pub to a local community and there's not space in a comments section to educate you. You also know next to nothing of the business behaviour of the large pub companies. Large pub companies sell groups of pubs to retailers as a job lot. Tesco may not have a clue whether this pub is viable for them or not if it is one of 20 they are buying. marvell
  • Score: -24

11:01am Mon 25 Aug 14

magnard says...

marvell wrote:
magnard wrote:
Pubs are private businesses not public services, the owners of this pub would be failing their shareholders if they didn't do the best deal whether that was keeping it open or selling it to Tescos.
As for whether we 'need' another Tescos people are just saying they don't want one and trying to impose their dislikes on everyone else. If a new Tescos isn't needed it will go out of business. 'End of'. The fact is Tescos will have done their homework and will be pretty sure this one will attract customers (including some of those vociferously against its being there).
If every pub in York became a Tescos it would be because people got what they really want, not what they say they want, by voting with their money and their custom. And not because of some fantasy evil empire 'depriving' the community of non-essential non-social services like 'the local pub'.
Your last sentence displays a fundamental lack of understanding of the value of the pub to a local community and there's not space in a comments section to educate you.

You also know next to nothing of the business behaviour of the large pub companies. Large pub companies sell groups of pubs to retailers as a job lot. Tesco may not have a clue whether this pub is viable for them or not if it is one of 20 they are buying.
Firstly, pubs survive or go under for commercial reasons, usually but not always linked to how well patronised the pub is by its locals. State intervention of any kind to restrict these commercial decisions, effectively forcing the owner to operate a pub as a social service when the owner has a better commercial plan, is inappropriate. If the owner isn't free to make these commercial decisions it might affect the viability of the whole business and dozens of pubs might then close rather than one.

Secondly, if people want to drink in a pub, and are prepared to walk, York is not exactly short of pubs; its not as if we're talking about closing the hospital (which is an essential service by the way).

Thirdly, whether the new Tescos is viable or not is entirely a matter for Tescos. If it isn't and Tescos close it, the locals can form a social enterprise to buy it and reopen the pub. It takes energy and commitment but there are dozens of examples of this happening (Google 'pub social enterprise' or see for example http://tinyurl.com/l
2u8qe5). Perhaps the pro Punch Bowl lobby could channel their energies more positively in this direction, rather than unjustified special pleading? I can then start a campaign to save my local Tescos ;)
[quote][p][bold]marvell[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]magnard[/bold] wrote: Pubs are private businesses not public services, the owners of this pub would be failing their shareholders if they didn't do the best deal whether that was keeping it open or selling it to Tescos. As for whether we 'need' another Tescos people are just saying they don't want one and trying to impose their dislikes on everyone else. If a new Tescos isn't needed it will go out of business. 'End of'. The fact is Tescos will have done their homework and will be pretty sure this one will attract customers (including some of those vociferously against its being there). If every pub in York became a Tescos it would be because people got what they really want, not what they say they want, by voting with their money and their custom. And not because of some fantasy evil empire 'depriving' the community of non-essential non-social services like 'the local pub'.[/p][/quote]Your last sentence displays a fundamental lack of understanding of the value of the pub to a local community and there's not space in a comments section to educate you. You also know next to nothing of the business behaviour of the large pub companies. Large pub companies sell groups of pubs to retailers as a job lot. Tesco may not have a clue whether this pub is viable for them or not if it is one of 20 they are buying.[/p][/quote]Firstly, pubs survive or go under for commercial reasons, usually but not always linked to how well patronised the pub is by its locals. State intervention of any kind to restrict these commercial decisions, effectively forcing the owner to operate a pub as a social service when the owner has a better commercial plan, is inappropriate. If the owner isn't free to make these commercial decisions it might affect the viability of the whole business and dozens of pubs might then close rather than one. Secondly, if people want to drink in a pub, and are prepared to walk, York is not exactly short of pubs; its not as if we're talking about closing the hospital (which is an essential service by the way). Thirdly, whether the new Tescos is viable or not is entirely a matter for Tescos. If it isn't and Tescos close it, the locals can form a social enterprise to buy it and reopen the pub. It takes energy and commitment but there are dozens of examples of this happening (Google 'pub social enterprise' or see for example http://tinyurl.com/l 2u8qe5). Perhaps the pro Punch Bowl lobby could channel their energies more positively in this direction, rather than unjustified special pleading? I can then start a campaign to save my local Tescos ;) magnard
  • Score: 24

12:26pm Mon 25 Aug 14

marvell says...

magnard wrote:
marvell wrote:
magnard wrote:
Pubs are private businesses not public services, the owners of this pub would be failing their shareholders if they didn't do the best deal whether that was keeping it open or selling it to Tescos.
As for whether we 'need' another Tescos people are just saying they don't want one and trying to impose their dislikes on everyone else. If a new Tescos isn't needed it will go out of business. 'End of'. The fact is Tescos will have done their homework and will be pretty sure this one will attract customers (including some of those vociferously against its being there).
If every pub in York became a Tescos it would be because people got what they really want, not what they say they want, by voting with their money and their custom. And not because of some fantasy evil empire 'depriving' the community of non-essential non-social services like 'the local pub'.
Your last sentence displays a fundamental lack of understanding of the value of the pub to a local community and there's not space in a comments section to educate you.

You also know next to nothing of the business behaviour of the large pub companies. Large pub companies sell groups of pubs to retailers as a job lot. Tesco may not have a clue whether this pub is viable for them or not if it is one of 20 they are buying.
Firstly, pubs survive or go under for commercial reasons, usually but not always linked to how well patronised the pub is by its locals. State intervention of any kind to restrict these commercial decisions, effectively forcing the owner to operate a pub as a social service when the owner has a better commercial plan, is inappropriate. If the owner isn't free to make these commercial decisions it might affect the viability of the whole business and dozens of pubs might then close rather than one.

Secondly, if people want to drink in a pub, and are prepared to walk, York is not exactly short of pubs; its not as if we're talking about closing the hospital (which is an essential service by the way).

Thirdly, whether the new Tescos is viable or not is entirely a matter for Tescos. If it isn't and Tescos close it, the locals can form a social enterprise to buy it and reopen the pub. It takes energy and commitment but there are dozens of examples of this happening (Google 'pub social enterprise' or see for example http://tinyurl.com/l

2u8qe5). Perhaps the pro Punch Bowl lobby could channel their energies more positively in this direction, rather than unjustified special pleading? I can then start a campaign to save my local Tescos ;)
The whole PubCo model is flawed and iniquitous. It definitely needs state intervention to smash the pub tie.

How can you justify a PubCo charging a tenant 70% more for alcohol than is charged to a freehouse?
How can you justify a trade that ensures that by punitive practice's that 57% of tenants earn less than £10,000 per year?
Why did pubs that went from struggling tied to freehouse suddenly show healthy profits?

The whole business is not designed to provide the best possible service to the community but just profit to a select few.
[quote][p][bold]magnard[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]marvell[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]magnard[/bold] wrote: Pubs are private businesses not public services, the owners of this pub would be failing their shareholders if they didn't do the best deal whether that was keeping it open or selling it to Tescos. As for whether we 'need' another Tescos people are just saying they don't want one and trying to impose their dislikes on everyone else. If a new Tescos isn't needed it will go out of business. 'End of'. The fact is Tescos will have done their homework and will be pretty sure this one will attract customers (including some of those vociferously against its being there). If every pub in York became a Tescos it would be because people got what they really want, not what they say they want, by voting with their money and their custom. And not because of some fantasy evil empire 'depriving' the community of non-essential non-social services like 'the local pub'.[/p][/quote]Your last sentence displays a fundamental lack of understanding of the value of the pub to a local community and there's not space in a comments section to educate you. You also know next to nothing of the business behaviour of the large pub companies. Large pub companies sell groups of pubs to retailers as a job lot. Tesco may not have a clue whether this pub is viable for them or not if it is one of 20 they are buying.[/p][/quote]Firstly, pubs survive or go under for commercial reasons, usually but not always linked to how well patronised the pub is by its locals. State intervention of any kind to restrict these commercial decisions, effectively forcing the owner to operate a pub as a social service when the owner has a better commercial plan, is inappropriate. If the owner isn't free to make these commercial decisions it might affect the viability of the whole business and dozens of pubs might then close rather than one. Secondly, if people want to drink in a pub, and are prepared to walk, York is not exactly short of pubs; its not as if we're talking about closing the hospital (which is an essential service by the way). Thirdly, whether the new Tescos is viable or not is entirely a matter for Tescos. If it isn't and Tescos close it, the locals can form a social enterprise to buy it and reopen the pub. It takes energy and commitment but there are dozens of examples of this happening (Google 'pub social enterprise' or see for example http://tinyurl.com/l 2u8qe5). Perhaps the pro Punch Bowl lobby could channel their energies more positively in this direction, rather than unjustified special pleading? I can then start a campaign to save my local Tescos ;)[/p][/quote]The whole PubCo model is flawed and iniquitous. It definitely needs state intervention to smash the pub tie. How can you justify a PubCo charging a tenant 70% more for alcohol than is charged to a freehouse? How can you justify a trade that ensures that by punitive practice's that 57% of tenants earn less than £10,000 per year? Why did pubs that went from struggling tied to freehouse suddenly show healthy profits? The whole business is not designed to provide the best possible service to the community but just profit to a select few. marvell
  • Score: 8

10:56pm Mon 25 Aug 14

Pinza-C55 says...

I would have normally agreed about supermarkets killing off local shops but about 2 years after the Tesco in Goodramgate opened , the newsagents opposite is still in business.
I would have normally agreed about supermarkets killing off local shops but about 2 years after the Tesco in Goodramgate opened , the newsagents opposite is still in business. Pinza-C55
  • Score: -4

9:44am Tue 26 Aug 14

grovesman says...

I live in the Groves. I haven't heard one good word about the Punch Bowl. Everyone says "punch by name, punch by nature ". I would never take my family in there. If it's nice weather, you usually just see a bunch of drunks sitting outside with their shirts off and they all stare at you as you walk past. Not what a community needs or wants. Come on Tesco, get a move on! We frequent the Gillygate, a beautiful refurbished family friendly pub. If it was anything like that, I would happily sign a petition.
I live in the Groves. I haven't heard one good word about the Punch Bowl. Everyone says "punch by name, punch by nature ". I would never take my family in there. If it's nice weather, you usually just see a bunch of drunks sitting outside with their shirts off and they all stare at you as you walk past. Not what a community needs or wants. Come on Tesco, get a move on! We frequent the Gillygate, a beautiful refurbished family friendly pub. If it was anything like that, I would happily sign a petition. grovesman
  • Score: 3

1:01pm Tue 26 Aug 14

Jackanory2 says...

Over many years I have frequented this pub maybe 3/4 times a year, and to be fair this pub started to be in trouble even before the last recession and the pubcos took over. It seems to have had brief spells of being a little more popular but thats usually been down to cheap beer promotions. It would be really sad to see it go, but if it has to because it can't pay for itself then whats the problem with a Tesco or any other supermarket taking over, better than leaving the building empty.
Over many years I have frequented this pub maybe 3/4 times a year, and to be fair this pub started to be in trouble even before the last recession and the pubcos took over. It seems to have had brief spells of being a little more popular but thats usually been down to cheap beer promotions. It would be really sad to see it go, but if it has to because it can't pay for itself then whats the problem with a Tesco or any other supermarket taking over, better than leaving the building empty. Jackanory2
  • Score: 1

8:36am Wed 27 Aug 14

DJS83 says...

I suppose the tesco will be a cheaper alternative to the londis and the spa. Maybe even a friendlier alternative. The staff in the londis aren't very friendly at all.
I suppose the tesco will be a cheaper alternative to the londis and the spa. Maybe even a friendlier alternative. The staff in the londis aren't very friendly at all. DJS83
  • Score: 1

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