Letting agents allowed to dump tonnes of student waste free of charge

Cllr Mark Warters says two letting agents in York are being allowed to dump student waste free of charge

Cllr Mark Warters says two letting agents in York are being allowed to dump student waste free of charge

First published in News
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A COUNCILLOR is fuming after discovering that two York letting agents are each being allowed to dump up to 10 tonnes of student household waste free of charge by City of York Council.

Landlords are also being given permits allowing them to dispose of some household waste from student accommodation at Hazel Court household waste recycling centre for no charge, said Independent Osbaldwick councillor Mark Warters.

He said the authority had told him that students clearing out rented property at the end of term could also use vans or trailers to dump waste by producing a valid student's union card.

Cllr Warters claimed the arrangement was unfair when landlords and letting agencies were making plenty of money from lucrative student lets and other York businesses were having to pay fees to dump waste.

He said the arrangement was 'ludicrous' when it was considered that students and landlords did not have to pay council tax on their properties and when residents who did pay council tax were facing the prospect of increased charges for dumping waste, along with possible reductions in waste collections.

A council spokeswoman said the authority had followed in the footsteps of many other councils and universities by launching its Smarter York student campaign three years ago in partnership with the city's universities.

"One of the reasons the campaign targets student areas was to address historic problems around rubbish being dumped in back lanes," she said.

"Allowing letting agents/landlords/students some flexibility to dispose of student property rubbish has helped to reduce the number of complaints and jobs that have come through to the council, meaning that additional resources do not have to be found to deal with rubbish that might otherwise have been left in lanes outside properties.

"However, the arrangements for dealing with student waste is due to be reviewed and a report will be taken to Cabinet later this year.”

Environmental services Cabinet member Cllr Dave Merrett said the authority needed to avoid 'cutting off its nose to spite its face' and ending up spending more money clearing up illegally dumped waste, where the culprits could not be traced, than on the concessions scheme.

However, in the light of tightening financial resources, it was right to look again at the policy, he added.

Comments (62)

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10:53am Mon 18 Aug 14

Oaklands Resident says...

On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying.

It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability.

Must be one or the other surely?
On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying. It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability. Must be one or the other surely? Oaklands Resident
  • Score: 55

10:58am Mon 18 Aug 14

nearlyman says...

So , so as not to cut off his nose to spite Mr merretts face, if we want more services for less money, all of us law abiding, clean and tidy residents need to do is start leaving black bin bags along with our other mess in the streets.......great logic !!!! How about starting some real action against the mess and fining those property owners responsible....they would soon force their tenants to clean up their mess...and couldn't care less lifestyle.
So , so as not to cut off his nose to spite Mr merretts face, if we want more services for less money, all of us law abiding, clean and tidy residents need to do is start leaving black bin bags along with our other mess in the streets.......great logic !!!! How about starting some real action against the mess and fining those property owners responsible....they would soon force their tenants to clean up their mess...and couldn't care less lifestyle. nearlyman
  • Score: 9

10:59am Mon 18 Aug 14

Fat Harry says...

Oaklands Resident wrote:
On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying. It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability. Must be one or the other surely?
Seems sensible to me that landlords should pay a business rate. They are in an extremely lucrative business which often has a negative impact on the neighbourhoods where they operate; only fair that they should put something back.
[quote][p][bold]Oaklands Resident[/bold] wrote: On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying. It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability. Must be one or the other surely?[/p][/quote]Seems sensible to me that landlords should pay a business rate. They are in an extremely lucrative business which often has a negative impact on the neighbourhoods where they operate; only fair that they should put something back. Fat Harry
  • Score: 48

11:08am Mon 18 Aug 14

emen says...

This one isn't down to the council. Central government prevent local councils charging for the collection and disposal of waste from privately owned student accommodation. Just another nice little subsidy for the landlords.
This one isn't down to the council. Central government prevent local councils charging for the collection and disposal of waste from privately owned student accommodation. Just another nice little subsidy for the landlords. emen
  • Score: -37

11:10am Mon 18 Aug 14

yorkie0802 says...

Students opposite us left about ten bags of rubbish outside for weeks, landlord made no effort to remove it, only got moved after contacting letting agents several times.
Students opposite us left about ten bags of rubbish outside for weeks, landlord made no effort to remove it, only got moved after contacting letting agents several times. yorkie0802
  • Score: -8

11:23am Mon 18 Aug 14

York2000 says...

Mark Waters would have been even more 'fuming' if there was tonnes of rubbish dumped in his area. But, York's chief NIMBY refusing to think before he fumes.

The Press needs to start being a little more selective with the council bashing. It seems to want to run ANY story involving the council.
Mark Waters would have been even more 'fuming' if there was tonnes of rubbish dumped in his area. But, York's chief NIMBY refusing to think before he fumes. The Press needs to start being a little more selective with the council bashing. It seems to want to run ANY story involving the council. York2000
  • Score: -10

12:17pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Martin true Viking says...

With a man like Merrit at the helm I'm sure this problem will be resolved swiftly and efficiently.
With a man like Merrit at the helm I'm sure this problem will be resolved swiftly and efficiently. Martin true Viking
  • Score: -4

12:19pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Fanny Free House says...

York2000 wrote:
Mark Waters would have been even more 'fuming' if there was tonnes of rubbish dumped in his area. But, York's chief NIMBY refusing to think before he fumes.

The Press needs to start being a little more selective with the council bashing. It seems to want to run ANY story involving the council.
Perfectly right that the press runs every story that involves the council, after all we know the councils preference for operating in secrecy.

If you don't like it you and the rest (small number) of the pro-council posters have plenty of non-council articles fed to you by the Press. Why can't you just keep to those articles eh, and give everyone else a break from your misplaced unabounded love for all things council.

GO, GO COUCIL BASHERS RAH, RAH, RAH.

They deserve everything they get.
[quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Mark Waters would have been even more 'fuming' if there was tonnes of rubbish dumped in his area. But, York's chief NIMBY refusing to think before he fumes. The Press needs to start being a little more selective with the council bashing. It seems to want to run ANY story involving the council.[/p][/quote]Perfectly right that the press runs every story that involves the council, after all we know the councils preference for operating in secrecy. If you don't like it you and the rest (small number) of the pro-council posters have plenty of non-council articles fed to you by the Press. Why can't you just keep to those articles eh, and give everyone else a break from your misplaced unabounded love for all things council. GO, GO COUCIL BASHERS RAH, RAH, RAH. They deserve everything they get. Fanny Free House
  • Score: 47

12:26pm Mon 18 Aug 14

York2000 says...

Fanny Free House - Who is pro council? Not me. Just sick of you and your ilk hijacking the local news website. This is the main source of news and comment for York and to quote you and your (small number) of moaners have made the website a local joke.
Fanny Free House - Who is pro council? Not me. Just sick of you and your ilk hijacking the local news website. This is the main source of news and comment for York and to quote you and your (small number) of moaners have made the website a local joke. York2000
  • Score: 7

12:29pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Kevin Turvey says...

‘York2000 says...

The Press needs to start being a little more selective with the council bashing. It seems to want to run ANY story involving the council.’

Elected representatives and officials meant to be working for us who employ them equals fair game for accountability and satire in my book.

Back to the subject – only properties let to students are exempt from council tax.
Normal tenants have to pay their full council tax and so they should as members of society using council services no matter how good or bad they are in reality!
As a landlord for private tenants, why should I have to pay their way as well as my own?
I have my own council tax to pay for my own residence property.
It’s not all beer and skittles being a private landlord, yes it has it’s long term benefits but sometimes it’s not worth it if you have ‘problem’ tenants.
‘York2000 says... The Press needs to start being a little more selective with the council bashing. It seems to want to run ANY story involving the council.’ Elected representatives and officials meant to be working for us who employ them equals fair game for accountability and satire in my book. Back to the subject – only properties let to students are exempt from council tax. Normal tenants have to pay their full council tax and so they should as members of society using council services no matter how good or bad they are in reality! As a landlord for private tenants, why should I have to pay their way as well as my own? I have my own council tax to pay for my own residence property. It’s not all beer and skittles being a private landlord, yes it has it’s long term benefits but sometimes it’s not worth it if you have ‘problem’ tenants. Kevin Turvey
  • Score: 19

12:29pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Fanny Free House says...

York2000 wrote:
Fanny Free House - Who is pro council? Not me. Just sick of you and your ilk hijacking the local news website. This is the main source of news and comment for York and to quote you and your (small number) of moaners have made the website a local joke.
The biggest joke is the council and those who try to protect them.
[quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Fanny Free House - Who is pro council? Not me. Just sick of you and your ilk hijacking the local news website. This is the main source of news and comment for York and to quote you and your (small number) of moaners have made the website a local joke.[/p][/quote]The biggest joke is the council and those who try to protect them. Fanny Free House
  • Score: -4

12:32pm Mon 18 Aug 14

York2000 says...

Fanny Free House - Actually, I'll do you a deal. You can have your council pages, I will stay way IF you stay off the other stories?
Fanny Free House - Actually, I'll do you a deal. You can have your council pages, I will stay way IF you stay off the other stories? York2000
  • Score: 12

12:46pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Fanny Free House says...

York2000 wrote:
Fanny Free House - Actually, I'll do you a deal. You can have your council pages, I will stay way IF you stay off the other stories?
So long as the story does not include references to or by failed councillors or council officers trying to promote their images on the backs of successful people then I will continue to comment.

I don't consider your influence sufficient to change or restrict my options to comment, after all when individual commenters are referred to as moaners by a poster, it indicates a base level capacity to comprehend opposing views.

So no change for me, business as usual, NO hiding place to self promote.
[quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Fanny Free House - Actually, I'll do you a deal. You can have your council pages, I will stay way IF you stay off the other stories?[/p][/quote]So long as the story does not include references to or by failed councillors or council officers trying to promote their images on the backs of successful people then I will continue to comment. I don't consider your influence sufficient to change or restrict my options to comment, after all when individual commenters are referred to as moaners by a poster, it indicates a base level capacity to comprehend opposing views. So no change for me, business as usual, NO hiding place to self promote. Fanny Free House
  • Score: -15

12:47pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Ichabod76 says...

York2000 wrote:
Fanny Free House - Actually, I'll do you a deal. You can have your council pages, I will stay way IF you stay off the other stories?
This is a public website with the feature where anyone can comment
If you don't like it stay away, no one is forcing you to visit the site.

You don't have the right to tell people on which stories they can and can't comment on.
[quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Fanny Free House - Actually, I'll do you a deal. You can have your council pages, I will stay way IF you stay off the other stories?[/p][/quote]This is a public website with the feature where anyone can comment If you don't like it stay away, no one is forcing you to visit the site. You don't have the right to tell people on which stories they can and can't comment on. Ichabod76
  • Score: -7

1:00pm Mon 18 Aug 14

York2000 says...

Fanny Free House - Haha. Thought not.
Fanny Free House - Haha. Thought not. York2000
  • Score: -19

1:01pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Fanny Free House says...

York2000 wrote:
Fanny Free House - Haha. Thought not.
But thought enough to try, pathetic.
[quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Fanny Free House - Haha. Thought not.[/p][/quote]But thought enough to try, pathetic. Fanny Free House
  • Score: 21

1:08pm Mon 18 Aug 14

York2000 says...

Fanny Free House - Settle down. Just keep thinking about election day 2015 when all your worries will be over.
Fanny Free House - Settle down. Just keep thinking about election day 2015 when all your worries will be over. York2000
  • Score: 28

1:09pm Mon 18 Aug 14

vax2002 says...

Trade waste is trade waste.
An average student house generates 10K per annum in profit plus the capital investment of capital gain.
All other businesses have to pay the going rate for trade waste.
Fair is fair, we are all supposed to be equal.
Trade waste is trade waste. An average student house generates 10K per annum in profit plus the capital investment of capital gain. All other businesses have to pay the going rate for trade waste. Fair is fair, we are all supposed to be equal. vax2002
  • Score: -4

1:18pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Fanny Free House says...

York2000 wrote:
Fanny Free House - Settle down. Just keep thinking about election day 2015 when all your worries will be over.
Desperate, now accusing me of being irrational.

Go away soft person.
[quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Fanny Free House - Settle down. Just keep thinking about election day 2015 when all your worries will be over.[/p][/quote]Desperate, now accusing me of being irrational. Go away soft person. Fanny Free House
  • Score: -25

1:23pm Mon 18 Aug 14

johnwill says...

The real issue is surely why student properties are free of council tax, they use the Councils amenities, facilities, infrastructure etc as much as anyone else, so why should they not pay towards the cost ?
At least they or their landlords would have then contributed through council tax towards the expense of tidying up after them when they leave the properties .
The real issue is surely why student properties are free of council tax, they use the Councils amenities, facilities, infrastructure etc as much as anyone else, so why should they not pay towards the cost ? At least they or their landlords would have then contributed through council tax towards the expense of tidying up after them when they leave the properties . johnwill
  • Score: -4

1:43pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Pinza-C55 says...

""Allowing letting agents/landlords/stu
dents some flexibility to dispose of student property rubbish has helped to reduce the number of complaints and jobs that have come through to the council"
Translated.
""Allowing letting agents/landlords/stu
dents to break the law allows the council to target those who pay council tax but receive no service".
""Allowing letting agents/landlords/stu dents some flexibility to dispose of student property rubbish has helped to reduce the number of complaints and jobs that have come through to the council" Translated. ""Allowing letting agents/landlords/stu dents to break the law allows the council to target those who pay council tax but receive no service". Pinza-C55
  • Score: -15

1:54pm Mon 18 Aug 14

PlanetTea says...

I moved into a student house on Huntington Road last year as a temporary stop gap between homes. When I moved into the property there must have been 20 rubbish bags in the yard left there by the previous students. It was absolutely awful. I'm an estate agent myself and was not happy that the landlord wouldn't obliged with arranging to have it removed. In the end we (myself and the two students) did end up putting all twenty bags out in the alleyway to be picked up. The issue is that had it been left we could have ended up with a rat issue which would have undoubtedly effected our neighbours too. I cannot understand why a landlord can't deduct all costs for disposing of rubbish from tenant's deposit, this is what the bond is there for! Frankly, I do not blame landlords for this, I blame those who are so lazy they can't be bothered to take responsibility to put their bins out. The council should not be having to pay for the disposal for large amounts of rubbish, but it my case, thank god they took it away or the issue could have become far more serious. You might be interested to know that the dirty buggers who left the rubbish were medical students training to be Doctors. I hate to stereotype, but in my experience those in the medical profession are the worst slobs you can imagine. My current property was rented previously by a Doctor and when I went to view it, it was in a complete state and had to be professionally cleaned before we moved in. Rubbish had been left to fester in the bin and as a result maggots had started to flourish in there, fun for me to clean out I can tell you!
I moved into a student house on Huntington Road last year as a temporary stop gap between homes. When I moved into the property there must have been 20 rubbish bags in the yard left there by the previous students. It was absolutely awful. I'm an estate agent myself and was not happy that the landlord wouldn't obliged with arranging to have it removed. In the end we (myself and the two students) did end up putting all twenty bags out in the alleyway to be picked up. The issue is that had it been left we could have ended up with a rat issue which would have undoubtedly effected our neighbours too. I cannot understand why a landlord can't deduct all costs for disposing of rubbish from tenant's deposit, this is what the bond is there for! Frankly, I do not blame landlords for this, I blame those who are so lazy they can't be bothered to take responsibility to put their bins out. The council should not be having to pay for the disposal for large amounts of rubbish, but it my case, thank god they took it away or the issue could have become far more serious. You might be interested to know that the dirty buggers who left the rubbish were medical students training to be Doctors. I hate to stereotype, but in my experience those in the medical profession are the worst slobs you can imagine. My current property was rented previously by a Doctor and when I went to view it, it was in a complete state and had to be professionally cleaned before we moved in. Rubbish had been left to fester in the bin and as a result maggots had started to flourish in there, fun for me to clean out I can tell you! PlanetTea
  • Score: -6

1:59pm Mon 18 Aug 14

York2000 says...

Fanny Free House - Such rage. Need a hug?
Fanny Free House - Such rage. Need a hug? York2000
  • Score: -22

2:01pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Dave Ruddock says...

From one council Tax payer, I just find it all rather in the Government hands and of course No One Knows how to contact them. Regards Students, well heres a wild Idea, As Universities like to encourage students to "Their" Uni, it fall on the Uni to support the council, city residents then students , in that they put in their 2 penarth , to clean up after the students. or do we all go back to the Middle Ages, Refuse everywhere, decease, Rat infested York .
Quicker student accommodation (UNI at/in University campus, College in Central Student Accommodation, less private property used for students .
From one council Tax payer, I just find it all rather in the Government hands and of course No One Knows how to contact them. Regards Students, well heres a wild Idea, As Universities like to encourage students to "Their" Uni, it fall on the Uni to support the council, city residents then students , in that they put in their 2 penarth , to clean up after the students. or do we all go back to the Middle Ages, Refuse everywhere, decease, Rat infested York . Quicker student accommodation (UNI at/in University campus, College in Central Student Accommodation, less private property used for students . Dave Ruddock
  • Score: 17

2:14pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Fanny Free House says...

York2000 wrote:
Fanny Free House - Such rage. Need a hug?
Ha, Ha, your not really equipped to be on here are you, I'm surprised the council allow it in works time.
[quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Fanny Free House - Such rage. Need a hug?[/p][/quote]Ha, Ha, your not really equipped to be on here are you, I'm surprised the council allow it in works time. Fanny Free House
  • Score: -23

2:24pm Mon 18 Aug 14

meme says...

good idea rubbish removal can be deducted from deposits so landlords should be charged as they will get it back
good idea rubbish removal can be deducted from deposits so landlords should be charged as they will get it back meme
  • Score: -19

2:26pm Mon 18 Aug 14

York2000 says...

Fanny Free House - Ha. I am sat here in the office planning on closing the road where you live to traffic, and slapping a fine on you for driving down there. Not bothered about the legallity of it, like and I won't bother blocking the road. A sign above eye level will do.
Fanny Free House - Ha. I am sat here in the office planning on closing the road where you live to traffic, and slapping a fine on you for driving down there. Not bothered about the legallity of it, like and I won't bother blocking the road. A sign above eye level will do. York2000
  • Score: 23

3:03pm Mon 18 Aug 14

bill bailey says...

STUDENTS seem to have plenty of money to get smashed over the weekend, make them get rid of their own rubbish, if not the owners should be made to pay. by default. why isn't it collected every two weeks like ours?
STUDENTS seem to have plenty of money to get smashed over the weekend, make them get rid of their own rubbish, if not the owners should be made to pay. by default. why isn't it collected every two weeks like ours? bill bailey
  • Score: -19

3:03pm Mon 18 Aug 14

eeoodares says...

York2000 wrote:
Fanny Free House - Actually, I'll do you a deal. You can have your council pages, I will stay way IF you stay off the other stories?
Are you for real?

What makes you think you have the right to dictate or deal on who can comment on what, when and where? You keep complaining in these forums about people council bashing. If you do not like it why do you keep reading the articles and then the comments, you then go further and comment yourself. You show an amazing ability to waste your time in pointless exercises, are you sure you are not on the Liebour council?
[quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Fanny Free House - Actually, I'll do you a deal. You can have your council pages, I will stay way IF you stay off the other stories?[/p][/quote]Are you for real? What makes you think you have the right to dictate or deal on who can comment on what, when and where? You keep complaining in these forums about people council bashing. If you do not like it why do you keep reading the articles and then the comments, you then go further and comment yourself. You show an amazing ability to waste your time in pointless exercises, are you sure you are not on the Liebour council? eeoodares
  • Score: -20

3:43pm Mon 18 Aug 14

thinkingoutsidethebox says...

Malta recently excluded itself from some EU rules - so councils should be able to do something about this problem in some shape or form. I know central government are responsible for the pay no council tax ruling for students - perhaps they should think again and charge the landlords who are earning really good rewards from lettings......you only have to look at how many are doing it and how many multiple housing properties are in use in York. The amount of stuff discarded is a travesty and a great shame that students cannot be more responsible in organising themselves to donate a lot of their not required stuff to worthy causes and benefit people not as fortunate as they are. Each time I go to Hazel Court I am irritated at the wonderful stuff that people throw away. A pity then that someone cannot charge people for throwing perfectly good stuff away..............I couldn't even get them to give me a little old bike to paint yellow for the TDF (Which of course I would have been taking back). The cynic in me also suspects that some stuff is acquired by those in a position to acquire it. So if I'm cynical am I also a conspiracy theorist, in that the Press has changed it's look considerably and I wonder if this is to distract too many negative comments regarding our less than illustrious council.
Malta recently excluded itself from some EU rules - so councils should be able to do something about this problem in some shape or form. I know central government are responsible for the pay no council tax ruling for students - perhaps they should think again and charge the landlords who are earning really good rewards from lettings......you only have to look at how many are doing it and how many multiple housing properties are in use in York. The amount of stuff discarded is a travesty and a great shame that students cannot be more responsible in organising themselves to donate a lot of their not required stuff to worthy causes and benefit people not as fortunate as they are. Each time I go to Hazel Court I am irritated at the wonderful stuff that people throw away. A pity then that someone cannot charge people for throwing perfectly good stuff away..............I couldn't even get them to give me a little old bike to paint yellow for the TDF (Which of course I would have been taking back). The cynic in me also suspects that some stuff is acquired by those in a position to acquire it. So if I'm cynical am I also a conspiracy theorist, in that the Press has changed it's look considerably and I wonder if this is to distract too many negative comments regarding our less than illustrious council. thinkingoutsidethebox
  • Score: -37

3:52pm Mon 18 Aug 14

sensetalking says...

Kevin Turvey wrote:
‘York2000 says...

The Press needs to start being a little more selective with the council bashing. It seems to want to run ANY story involving the council.’

Elected representatives and officials meant to be working for us who employ them equals fair game for accountability and satire in my book.

Back to the subject – only properties let to students are exempt from council tax.
Normal tenants have to pay their full council tax and so they should as members of society using council services no matter how good or bad they are in reality!
As a landlord for private tenants, why should I have to pay their way as well as my own?
I have my own council tax to pay for my own residence property.
It’s not all beer and skittles being a private landlord, yes it has it’s long term benefits but sometimes it’s not worth it if you have ‘problem’ tenants.
Shame on you. You run a business renting out property to students, therefore you should pay the appropriate business rate/council tax. If you'd invested money instead into buying a hotel or any other business you'd have to pay, so why should you be exempt because you're a student landlord? It's still a business. I too rent a property to students and feel very strongly that this exemption is simply wrong. A house of four adult students generates far more rubbish than most families. My letters to MPs have come to nothing, though I'm sure that ending student exemption and making landlords (not students) pay, would surely be popular with all council tax payers.
[quote][p][bold]Kevin Turvey[/bold] wrote: ‘York2000 says... The Press needs to start being a little more selective with the council bashing. It seems to want to run ANY story involving the council.’ Elected representatives and officials meant to be working for us who employ them equals fair game for accountability and satire in my book. Back to the subject – only properties let to students are exempt from council tax. Normal tenants have to pay their full council tax and so they should as members of society using council services no matter how good or bad they are in reality! As a landlord for private tenants, why should I have to pay their way as well as my own? I have my own council tax to pay for my own residence property. It’s not all beer and skittles being a private landlord, yes it has it’s long term benefits but sometimes it’s not worth it if you have ‘problem’ tenants.[/p][/quote]Shame on you. You run a business renting out property to students, therefore you should pay the appropriate business rate/council tax. If you'd invested money instead into buying a hotel or any other business you'd have to pay, so why should you be exempt because you're a student landlord? It's still a business. I too rent a property to students and feel very strongly that this exemption is simply wrong. A house of four adult students generates far more rubbish than most families. My letters to MPs have come to nothing, though I'm sure that ending student exemption and making landlords (not students) pay, would surely be popular with all council tax payers. sensetalking
  • Score: 12

3:59pm Mon 18 Aug 14

smudge2 says...

Remember when you were 17 and had left home for the first time with a pocket full of money.... ???? Not a care in the world ..Now I am a lot older and find myself complaining about everything. Sometimes a more balanced view can help.
Remember when you were 17 and had left home for the first time with a pocket full of money.... ???? Not a care in the world ..Now I am a lot older and find myself complaining about everything. Sometimes a more balanced view can help. smudge2
  • Score: 1

4:11pm Mon 18 Aug 14

York2000 says...

eeoodares - For crying out loud. Fanny Free and I were having a half hearted bickering contest. Don't be so serious.
eeoodares - For crying out loud. Fanny Free and I were having a half hearted bickering contest. Don't be so serious. York2000
  • Score: 35

4:29pm Mon 18 Aug 14

pbrowne2009@live.co.uk says...

Oaklands Resident wrote:
On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying.

It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability.

Must be one or the other surely?
I've never thought about that before. Renting a home for profit is the same as running a business. So why do landlords not pay business rates? You can bet most landlords don't declare rental income on their self assessment tax returns. Not saying all don't but I can bet anything that this happens. That's the joys or private letting, you can literally do as you please and charge what you want while doing nothing at all. (yours sincerely: bitter tenant )
[quote][p][bold]Oaklands Resident[/bold] wrote: On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying. It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability. Must be one or the other surely?[/p][/quote]I've never thought about that before. Renting a home for profit is the same as running a business. So why do landlords not pay business rates? You can bet most landlords don't declare rental income on their self assessment tax returns. Not saying all don't but I can bet anything that this happens. That's the joys or private letting, you can literally do as you please and charge what you want while doing nothing at all. (yours sincerely: bitter tenant ) pbrowne2009@live.co.uk
  • Score: -37

5:11pm Mon 18 Aug 14

smudge2 says...

pbrowne2009@live.co.
uk
wrote:
Oaklands Resident wrote:
On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying.

It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability.

Must be one or the other surely?
I've never thought about that before. Renting a home for profit is the same as running a business. So why do landlords not pay business rates? You can bet most landlords don't declare rental income on their self assessment tax returns. Not saying all don't but I can bet anything that this happens. That's the joys or private letting, you can literally do as you please and charge what you want while doing nothing at all. (yours sincerely: bitter tenant )
You always have the option of buying your own houses instead of moaning .If it wasn't for private Landlords you would have no where to live as councils can't provide enough properties for the population to live in and nobody forces people to rent a home.Its your life and how you live it and work it in your own hands.
[quote][p][bold]pbrowne2009@live.co. uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oaklands Resident[/bold] wrote: On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying. It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability. Must be one or the other surely?[/p][/quote]I've never thought about that before. Renting a home for profit is the same as running a business. So why do landlords not pay business rates? You can bet most landlords don't declare rental income on their self assessment tax returns. Not saying all don't but I can bet anything that this happens. That's the joys or private letting, you can literally do as you please and charge what you want while doing nothing at all. (yours sincerely: bitter tenant )[/p][/quote]You always have the option of buying your own houses instead of moaning .If it wasn't for private Landlords you would have no where to live as councils can't provide enough properties for the population to live in and nobody forces people to rent a home.Its your life and how you live it and work it in your own hands. smudge2
  • Score: -47

6:21pm Mon 18 Aug 14

notpedallingpaul says...

Fat Harry wrote:
Oaklands Resident wrote:
On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying. It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability. Must be one or the other surely?
Seems sensible to me that landlords should pay a business rate. They are in an extremely lucrative business which often has a negative impact on the neighbourhoods where they operate; only fair that they should put something back.
It's a kick in the teeth for the many responsible residents of this city who dispose of their waste responsibly.
Students live in the house next door to me, the post grad students are more responsible and abide by the waste collection services, but the under grads are a complete pain in the derrière, with overflowing bins and bags of rubbish which they don't bother to put out for collection.
I agree that landlords should be made to pay either council tax or business rates for the impact they have on the surrounding area.
[quote][p][bold]Fat Harry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oaklands Resident[/bold] wrote: On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying. It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability. Must be one or the other surely?[/p][/quote]Seems sensible to me that landlords should pay a business rate. They are in an extremely lucrative business which often has a negative impact on the neighbourhoods where they operate; only fair that they should put something back.[/p][/quote]It's a kick in the teeth for the many responsible residents of this city who dispose of their waste responsibly. Students live in the house next door to me, the post grad students are more responsible and abide by the waste collection services, but the under grads are a complete pain in the derrière, with overflowing bins and bags of rubbish which they don't bother to put out for collection. I agree that landlords should be made to pay either council tax or business rates for the impact they have on the surrounding area. notpedallingpaul
  • Score: -38

6:51pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Sillybillies says...

Isn't the story good justification for the fairest local taxation system ever devised? I mean the so called poll tax, where ALL have to contribute financially to the area where they live. What a lost opportunity to bring in some fairness to taxation. Bring it back.
Isn't the story good justification for the fairest local taxation system ever devised? I mean the so called poll tax, where ALL have to contribute financially to the area where they live. What a lost opportunity to bring in some fairness to taxation. Bring it back. Sillybillies
  • Score: -38

7:19pm Mon 18 Aug 14

A.P.Feeders says...

Looking at some previous comments am I to believe that if you rent out a house to students you don't pay council tax?
Looking at some previous comments am I to believe that if you rent out a house to students you don't pay council tax? A.P.Feeders
  • Score: -1

7:49pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Things can only get.. worse.. says...

As a previous undergrad student who lived in student accommodation for several years, it seems only fair that someone speaks out for the students on here..
Firstly, not all students are the same. It seems unfair that the actions of a few messy sods creates such animosity towards the student population in York. I moved into a 5 bed house with 4 other students - the spare room was full up with boxes, broken chairs etc. leftover by the previous student tenants. When we came to leave the property, the letting agency in question insisted all rubbish (inc. the refuge in the black bins) was to be removed from the property before our moving date. Our black bin was full up but not overflowing, and our bin collection date wasn't until a few days after the end of our tenancy. We were expected to take these bags to the tip or pay for removal - who wants to put rotting food into their car and drive it to the tip? Or pay an extortionate fee for someone to remove the rubbish when the normal collection date is only a few days away? We were charged £60.00 for the removal of several bin bags from the spare room in question, and from our bin, and were unable to claim back that money from our bonds.. Is it no wonder, then, that a handful of students DO opt to dump rubbish? I'm not excusing their actions, but it is the money-grabbing landlords who really should be held accountable here, especially if they've been able to claim money for rubbish removal yet have dumped the rubbish elsewhere..
As for the council tax debate, living in York, as many if not all of you should know, is not cheap. For a bog standard student let you're looking at around £60pppw for a 3/4 bed property, which works out around a grand or so per month. There are nicer ones, but you're looking at up to £100pppw etc. And what do you get for those prices? Rising damp, broken furniture/white goods etc. and no help from the landlord. I spent a year in a damp extension with no radiator and no ventilation, but I had no choice and no way of sorting out the problem. Yes, we used the council's bin collection service, but with tuition (let's not forget how much that's risen), accommodation, gas, elec, water, internet, insurance and food bills to pay for, there's really very little left over to pay out much more. And why shouldn't students be able to enjoy their free time with what's leftover? Students have such a bad rep for dossing and boozing and being messy but it is completely unfair and not altogether true. After all, how can people be allowed to better themselves if their isn't a bit of give and take somewhere along the line? If anything, landlords should have to pay some sort of insurance fee to the council to make sure the bins are collected. They certainly make enough money off of us..
As a previous undergrad student who lived in student accommodation for several years, it seems only fair that someone speaks out for the students on here.. Firstly, not all students are the same. It seems unfair that the actions of a few messy sods creates such animosity towards the student population in York. I moved into a 5 bed house with 4 other students - the spare room was full up with boxes, broken chairs etc. leftover by the previous student tenants. When we came to leave the property, the letting agency in question insisted all rubbish (inc. the refuge in the black bins) was to be removed from the property before our moving date. Our black bin was full up but not overflowing, and our bin collection date wasn't until a few days after the end of our tenancy. We were expected to take these bags to the tip or pay for removal - who wants to put rotting food into their car and drive it to the tip? Or pay an extortionate fee for someone to remove the rubbish when the normal collection date is only a few days away? We were charged £60.00 for the removal of several bin bags from the spare room in question, and from our bin, and were unable to claim back that money from our bonds.. Is it no wonder, then, that a handful of students DO opt to dump rubbish? I'm not excusing their actions, but it is the money-grabbing landlords who really should be held accountable here, especially if they've been able to claim money for rubbish removal yet have dumped the rubbish elsewhere.. As for the council tax debate, living in York, as many if not all of you should know, is not cheap. For a bog standard student let you're looking at around £60pppw for a 3/4 bed property, which works out around a grand or so per month. There are nicer ones, but you're looking at up to £100pppw etc. And what do you get for those prices? Rising damp, broken furniture/white goods etc. and no help from the landlord. I spent a year in a damp extension with no radiator and no ventilation, but I had no choice and no way of sorting out the problem. Yes, we used the council's bin collection service, but with tuition (let's not forget how much that's risen), accommodation, gas, elec, water, internet, insurance and food bills to pay for, there's really very little left over to pay out much more. And why shouldn't students be able to enjoy their free time with what's leftover? Students have such a bad rep for dossing and boozing and being messy but it is completely unfair and not altogether true. After all, how can people be allowed to better themselves if their isn't a bit of give and take somewhere along the line? If anything, landlords should have to pay some sort of insurance fee to the council to make sure the bins are collected. They certainly make enough money off of us.. Things can only get.. worse..
  • Score: 3

8:13pm Mon 18 Aug 14

yawn.. says...

Martin true Viking wrote:
With a man like Merrit at the helm I'm sure this problem will be resolved swiftly and efficiently.
lmfao.... priceless fella.. God how I needed a good laugh today.
[quote][p][bold]Martin true Viking[/bold] wrote: With a man like Merrit at the helm I'm sure this problem will be resolved swiftly and efficiently.[/p][/quote]lmfao.... priceless fella.. God how I needed a good laugh today. yawn..
  • Score: 3

8:21pm Mon 18 Aug 14

CRWPROJ says...

An article such as this implies all students are dirty and leave rubbish behind them. As always its a minority that generate these stereotypes.
The issue with rubbish left by students, or any other indivdual leaving a residential property, whether rented or not, is that it is household rubbish. It is not rubbish generated from the function of a business. It is the legal obligation of the council to provide services to handle domestic waste. That is one of the many essential services they are required to provide. They do not have an option as to wether they can provide it or not.
York council are actively promoting the expansion of the york "education industry". Has anybody asked how much tax is paid by these large establishments. Registered as charities? No corporation tax due? How much of the £9000 fees contribute to york council's overheads?
York council have their own tenants. I wonder how many of these have left waste behind that has been disposed of by the council using their employees. All at a hidden cost to the community charge payer.
If agent charges were introduced, they would only be passed onto the tenant by any agent. Fees would become £9050 per year?!!
The UK councils need to stop wasting money on nonsense and provide core services. Which is what the community charge is paid for.
An article such as this implies all students are dirty and leave rubbish behind them. As always its a minority that generate these stereotypes. The issue with rubbish left by students, or any other indivdual leaving a residential property, whether rented or not, is that it is household rubbish. It is not rubbish generated from the function of a business. It is the legal obligation of the council to provide services to handle domestic waste. That is one of the many essential services they are required to provide. They do not have an option as to wether they can provide it or not. York council are actively promoting the expansion of the york "education industry". Has anybody asked how much tax is paid by these large establishments. Registered as charities? No corporation tax due? How much of the £9000 fees contribute to york council's overheads? York council have their own tenants. I wonder how many of these have left waste behind that has been disposed of by the council using their employees. All at a hidden cost to the community charge payer. If agent charges were introduced, they would only be passed onto the tenant by any agent. Fees would become £9050 per year?!! The UK councils need to stop wasting money on nonsense and provide core services. Which is what the community charge is paid for. CRWPROJ
  • Score: 3

11:03pm Mon 18 Aug 14

York1900 says...

It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property

Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax

It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not
It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not York1900
  • Score: 9

12:27am Tue 19 Aug 14

Things can only get.. worse.. says...

York1900 wrote:
It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property

Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax

It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not
So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day.
As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement.
In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..
[quote][p][bold]York1900[/bold] wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not[/p][/quote]So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day. As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement. In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures.. Things can only get.. worse..
  • Score: 2

2:09am Tue 19 Aug 14

Magicman! says...

"One of the reasons the campaign targets student areas was to address historic problems around rubbish being dumped in back lanes," she said.

"Allowing letting agents/landlords/stu
dents some flexibility to dispose of student property rubbish has helped to reduce the number of complaints and jobs that have come through to the council, meaning that additional resources do not have to be found to deal with rubbish that might otherwise have been left in lanes outside properties.

Here's an alternative idea: the old fashioned "school teacher punishment trick":- if a bag of illegally dumped rubbish is found in a back lane, take to task all the landlords in that area until one of them confesses it was them.
Whilst students are, in a way, an economic asset to York, in no way shape or form should the greedy landlords who are taking valuable family housing stock out of the market to use as tax-free student lets be given any sort of economic incentives to keep reducing York's housing stock and furthering the housing crisis in this city which will eventually lead to new houses having to be built on the green belt.
[quote] "One of the reasons the campaign targets student areas was to address historic problems around rubbish being dumped in back lanes," she said. "Allowing letting agents/landlords/stu dents some flexibility to dispose of student property rubbish has helped to reduce the number of complaints and jobs that have come through to the council, meaning that additional resources do not have to be found to deal with rubbish that might otherwise have been left in lanes outside properties. [/quote] Here's an alternative idea: the old fashioned "school teacher punishment trick":- if a bag of illegally dumped rubbish is found in a back lane, take to task all the landlords in that area until one of them confesses it was them. Whilst students are, in a way, an economic asset to York, in no way shape or form should the greedy landlords who are taking valuable family housing stock out of the market to use as tax-free student lets be given any sort of economic incentives to keep reducing York's housing stock and furthering the housing crisis in this city which will eventually lead to new houses having to be built on the green belt. Magicman!
  • Score: 1

7:09am Tue 19 Aug 14

oi oi savaloy says...

A.P.Feeders wrote:
Looking at some previous comments am I to believe that if you rent out a house to students you don't pay council tax?
yes! properties rented to student are council tax free, and they can put out umpteen bags (seems to be no limit) of rubbish days in advance of the collection date at no charge and the landlord/students will not get any kind of fine for littering your/our streets! remind me about this 'green bin' sticker lark again??
[quote][p][bold]A.P.Feeders[/bold] wrote: Looking at some previous comments am I to believe that if you rent out a house to students you don't pay council tax?[/p][/quote]yes! properties rented to student are council tax free, and they can put out umpteen bags (seems to be no limit) of rubbish days in advance of the collection date at no charge and the landlord/students will not get any kind of fine for littering your/our streets! remind me about this 'green bin' sticker lark again?? oi oi savaloy
  • Score: -20

7:15am Tue 19 Aug 14

oi oi savaloy says...

CRWPROJ wrote:
An article such as this implies all students are dirty and leave rubbish behind them. As always its a minority that generate these stereotypes.
The issue with rubbish left by students, or any other indivdual leaving a residential property, whether rented or not, is that it is household rubbish. It is not rubbish generated from the function of a business. It is the legal obligation of the council to provide services to handle domestic waste. That is one of the many essential services they are required to provide. They do not have an option as to wether they can provide it or not.
York council are actively promoting the expansion of the york "education industry". Has anybody asked how much tax is paid by these large establishments. Registered as charities? No corporation tax due? How much of the £9000 fees contribute to york council's overheads?
York council have their own tenants. I wonder how many of these have left waste behind that has been disposed of by the council using their employees. All at a hidden cost to the community charge payer.
If agent charges were introduced, they would only be passed onto the tenant by any agent. Fees would become £9050 per year?!!
The UK councils need to stop wasting money on nonsense and provide core services. Which is what the community charge is paid for.
it isn't a minority, go down a street with student properties and you will see that the minority is the tidy student, recently Heslington was in such a state with the student properties there had to be an organised clean up!
[quote][p][bold]CRWPROJ[/bold] wrote: An article such as this implies all students are dirty and leave rubbish behind them. As always its a minority that generate these stereotypes. The issue with rubbish left by students, or any other indivdual leaving a residential property, whether rented or not, is that it is household rubbish. It is not rubbish generated from the function of a business. It is the legal obligation of the council to provide services to handle domestic waste. That is one of the many essential services they are required to provide. They do not have an option as to wether they can provide it or not. York council are actively promoting the expansion of the york "education industry". Has anybody asked how much tax is paid by these large establishments. Registered as charities? No corporation tax due? How much of the £9000 fees contribute to york council's overheads? York council have their own tenants. I wonder how many of these have left waste behind that has been disposed of by the council using their employees. All at a hidden cost to the community charge payer. If agent charges were introduced, they would only be passed onto the tenant by any agent. Fees would become £9050 per year?!! The UK councils need to stop wasting money on nonsense and provide core services. Which is what the community charge is paid for.[/p][/quote]it isn't a minority, go down a street with student properties and you will see that the minority is the tidy student, recently Heslington was in such a state with the student properties there had to be an organised clean up! oi oi savaloy
  • Score: -12

7:42am Tue 19 Aug 14

Kevin Turvey says...

‘sensetalking says...
‘Kevin Turvey wrote:
‘York2000 says...

The Press needs to start being a little more selective with the council bashing. It seems to want to run ANY story involving the council.’

Elected representatives and officials meant to be working for us who employ them equals fair game for accountability and satire in my book.

Back to the subject – only properties let to students are exempt from council tax.
Normal tenants have to pay their full council tax and so they should as members of society using council services no matter how good or bad they are in reality!
As a landlord for private tenants, why should I have to pay their way as well as my own?
I have my own council tax to pay for my own residence property.
It’s not all beer and skittles being a private landlord, yes it has it’s long term benefits but sometimes it’s not worth it if you have ‘problem’ tenants.’
Shame on you. You run a business renting out property to students, therefore you should pay the appropriate business rate/council tax. If you'd invested money instead into buying a hotel or any other business you'd have to pay, so why should you be exempt because you're a student landlord? It's still a business. I too rent a property to students and feel very strongly that this exemption is simply wrong. A house of four adult students generates far more rubbish than most families. My letters to MPs have come to nothing, though I'm sure that ending student exemption and making landlords (not students) pay, would surely be popular with all council tax payers.’



There are two ends of a stick and you sir have very much got the wrong end of it.

Nowhere do I say I let to students. It does quite clearly say ‘private tenants’ therefore they pay their own council tax.

I would never dream of letting to un-vetted private tenants or worse still any student!

I am at the higher end of the market for professional people and let out the whole flat and do not pay business rates as it’s a private let – only lots of income tax!

So before you launch into damnation of others please read their post properly.

Perhaps your username requires a pretext eg. nil or no?
‘sensetalking says... ‘Kevin Turvey wrote: ‘York2000 says... The Press needs to start being a little more selective with the council bashing. It seems to want to run ANY story involving the council.’ Elected representatives and officials meant to be working for us who employ them equals fair game for accountability and satire in my book. Back to the subject – only properties let to students are exempt from council tax. Normal tenants have to pay their full council tax and so they should as members of society using council services no matter how good or bad they are in reality! As a landlord for private tenants, why should I have to pay their way as well as my own? I have my own council tax to pay for my own residence property. It’s not all beer and skittles being a private landlord, yes it has it’s long term benefits but sometimes it’s not worth it if you have ‘problem’ tenants.’ Shame on you. You run a business renting out property to students, therefore you should pay the appropriate business rate/council tax. If you'd invested money instead into buying a hotel or any other business you'd have to pay, so why should you be exempt because you're a student landlord? It's still a business. I too rent a property to students and feel very strongly that this exemption is simply wrong. A house of four adult students generates far more rubbish than most families. My letters to MPs have come to nothing, though I'm sure that ending student exemption and making landlords (not students) pay, would surely be popular with all council tax payers.’ There are two ends of a stick and you sir have very much got the wrong end of it. Nowhere do I say I let to students. It does quite clearly say ‘private tenants’ therefore they pay their own council tax. I would never dream of letting to un-vetted private tenants or worse still any student! I am at the higher end of the market for professional people and let out the whole flat and do not pay business rates as it’s a private let – only lots of income tax! So before you launch into damnation of others please read their post properly. Perhaps your username requires a pretext eg. nil or no? Kevin Turvey
  • Score: -1

8:49am Tue 19 Aug 14

CaroleBaines says...

smudge2 wrote:
pbrowne2009@live.co.

uk
wrote:
Oaklands Resident wrote:
On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying.

It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability.

Must be one or the other surely?
I've never thought about that before. Renting a home for profit is the same as running a business. So why do landlords not pay business rates? You can bet most landlords don't declare rental income on their self assessment tax returns. Not saying all don't but I can bet anything that this happens. That's the joys or private letting, you can literally do as you please and charge what you want while doing nothing at all. (yours sincerely: bitter tenant )
You always have the option of buying your own houses instead of moaning .If it wasn't for private Landlords you would have no where to live as councils can't provide enough properties for the population to live in and nobody forces people to rent a home.Its your life and how you live it and work it in your own hands.
Nonsense. Housing stock is reduced by landlords who buy up 'homes' to make easy money. Thus lowering demand, artificially inflating prices and making a fortune.
Landlords receive huge rents, often paid for by the tax payer since the abolition of the rent cap, AND see their investment values rise, AND don't pay council tax.
Time we clamped down on these people and they paid their way.
No I am not a student, nor do I rent, nor am I a Marxist stooge, just someone who wants some fairness.
[quote][p][bold]smudge2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pbrowne2009@live.co. uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oaklands Resident[/bold] wrote: On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying. It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability. Must be one or the other surely?[/p][/quote]I've never thought about that before. Renting a home for profit is the same as running a business. So why do landlords not pay business rates? You can bet most landlords don't declare rental income on their self assessment tax returns. Not saying all don't but I can bet anything that this happens. That's the joys or private letting, you can literally do as you please and charge what you want while doing nothing at all. (yours sincerely: bitter tenant )[/p][/quote]You always have the option of buying your own houses instead of moaning .If it wasn't for private Landlords you would have no where to live as councils can't provide enough properties for the population to live in and nobody forces people to rent a home.Its your life and how you live it and work it in your own hands.[/p][/quote]Nonsense. Housing stock is reduced by landlords who buy up 'homes' to make easy money. Thus lowering demand, artificially inflating prices and making a fortune. Landlords receive huge rents, often paid for by the tax payer since the abolition of the rent cap, AND see their investment values rise, AND don't pay council tax. Time we clamped down on these people and they paid their way. No I am not a student, nor do I rent, nor am I a Marxist stooge, just someone who wants some fairness. CaroleBaines
  • Score: 5

12:47pm Tue 19 Aug 14

WhyEver says...

York1900 wrote:
It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property

Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax

It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not
Of course to make the rules the same for students, you'd have to let them claim housing benefit too. Since most students have low incomes and no savings, that will cost a lot.
[quote][p][bold]York1900[/bold] wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not[/p][/quote]Of course to make the rules the same for students, you'd have to let them claim housing benefit too. Since most students have low incomes and no savings, that will cost a lot. WhyEver
  • Score: 0

1:28pm Tue 19 Aug 14

archieboldthe2nd says...

Things can only get.. worse.. wrote:
York1900 wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not
So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day. As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement. In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..
i did..... but I was part time and working on day release (why pay for uni yourself ey) . But one thing I did notice was most courses require attendance for say 2 "days" a week. Most of the full timers didn’t bother turning up. Don't get me wrong there were a few good eggs.

But I always say this, if you knew you weren't going to be able to afford uni, gas electric etc etc why make the choice to go (or in your case continue)? Live at home? commute? I know lads who used to drive from derby to leeds each time to attend uni as they couldn't afford to do it. No one is forcing you to live or study here? you chose it.
[quote][p][bold]Things can only get.. worse..[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]York1900[/bold] wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not[/p][/quote]So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day. As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement. In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..[/p][/quote]i did..... but I was part time and working on day release (why pay for uni yourself ey) . But one thing I did notice was most courses require attendance for say 2 "days" a week. Most of the full timers didn’t bother turning up. Don't get me wrong there were a few good eggs. But I always say this, if you knew you weren't going to be able to afford uni, gas electric etc etc why make the choice to go (or in your case continue)? Live at home? commute? I know lads who used to drive from derby to leeds each time to attend uni as they couldn't afford to do it. No one is forcing you to live or study here? you chose it. archieboldthe2nd
  • Score: 2

2:20pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Things can only get.. worse.. says...

archieboldthe2nd wrote:
Things can only get.. worse.. wrote:
York1900 wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not
So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day. As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement. In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..
i did..... but I was part time and working on day release (why pay for uni yourself ey) . But one thing I did notice was most courses require attendance for say 2 "days" a week. Most of the full timers didn’t bother turning up. Don't get me wrong there were a few good eggs.

But I always say this, if you knew you weren't going to be able to afford uni, gas electric etc etc why make the choice to go (or in your case continue)? Live at home? commute? I know lads who used to drive from derby to leeds each time to attend uni as they couldn't afford to do it. No one is forcing you to live or study here? you chose it.
I understand the point you're making, but surely this is another debate. Do you really want to see only the rich go to university? Yes, my choice to attend university and to continue with education as post-grad, but I ask you to consider the flip side of that choice. What would the other alternatives be? In the case of the lads you mentioned commuting from Derby to Leeds - when was that exactly? Would you really consider doing that now? With petrol costs. And of course, I would need to learn to drive, so I would have to pay for lessons, testing, a car and insurance.. oh and petrol for the massive commute. And if I wasn't to attend university, it would mean staying in my parental home, working locally (or at least try to find a job locally) and then - hopefully, eventually - being able to move out, get some independence. In short - my choices would be fairly limited. I went to university because I wanted to become an academic and continue down the career path I chose at college. Many students choose university for similar reasons, the majority so they have a better chance of gaining a qualification that will allow them to pursue their career choices. Who doesn't want that option? Who wouldn't want that for their children? Should all students just give up on their career choices because the fees have risen and so affording university and all that comes with it is now a struggle? Would you rather have a whole load of unemployed 18 - 20 somethings living on your street, claiming off the council for housing and job seekers? How would that make the situation any better?

To go back to the original argument here - which seems to have been forgotten - landlords make A LOT of money off students for poor accommodation, and so should pay at least part of the way towards ensuring the streets are kept clear of student rubbish. See above comments for my own experience of student lets, and how we were basically told to either remove the bin bags from our black bin BY HAND and take them to the tip, or to pay for the council to come out especially to collect a couple of bin bags. In the end we were charged £60.00 for rubbish which could have been collected on the normal collection date 2 days after our tenancy ended. We were stereotyped and penalized for having a normal amount of household waste - our treatment was disgusting. No wonder there are students who dump waste!
[quote][p][bold]archieboldthe2nd[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Things can only get.. worse..[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]York1900[/bold] wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not[/p][/quote]So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day. As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement. In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..[/p][/quote]i did..... but I was part time and working on day release (why pay for uni yourself ey) . But one thing I did notice was most courses require attendance for say 2 "days" a week. Most of the full timers didn’t bother turning up. Don't get me wrong there were a few good eggs. But I always say this, if you knew you weren't going to be able to afford uni, gas electric etc etc why make the choice to go (or in your case continue)? Live at home? commute? I know lads who used to drive from derby to leeds each time to attend uni as they couldn't afford to do it. No one is forcing you to live or study here? you chose it.[/p][/quote]I understand the point you're making, but surely this is another debate. Do you really want to see only the rich go to university? Yes, my choice to attend university and to continue with education as post-grad, but I ask you to consider the flip side of that choice. What would the other alternatives be? In the case of the lads you mentioned commuting from Derby to Leeds - when was that exactly? Would you really consider doing that now? With petrol costs. And of course, I would need to learn to drive, so I would have to pay for lessons, testing, a car and insurance.. oh and petrol for the massive commute. And if I wasn't to attend university, it would mean staying in my parental home, working locally (or at least try to find a job locally) and then - hopefully, eventually - being able to move out, get some independence. In short - my choices would be fairly limited. I went to university because I wanted to become an academic and continue down the career path I chose at college. Many students choose university for similar reasons, the majority so they have a better chance of gaining a qualification that will allow them to pursue their career choices. Who doesn't want that option? Who wouldn't want that for their children? Should all students just give up on their career choices because the fees have risen and so affording university and all that comes with it is now a struggle? Would you rather have a whole load of unemployed 18 - 20 somethings living on your street, claiming off the council for housing and job seekers? How would that make the situation any better? To go back to the original argument here - which seems to have been forgotten - landlords make A LOT of money off students for poor accommodation, and so should pay at least part of the way towards ensuring the streets are kept clear of student rubbish. See above comments for my own experience of student lets, and how we were basically told to either remove the bin bags from our black bin BY HAND and take them to the tip, or to pay for the council to come out especially to collect a couple of bin bags. In the end we were charged £60.00 for rubbish which could have been collected on the normal collection date 2 days after our tenancy ended. We were stereotyped and penalized for having a normal amount of household waste - our treatment was disgusting. No wonder there are students who dump waste! Things can only get.. worse..
  • Score: 0

3:30pm Tue 19 Aug 14

York1900 says...

Things can only get.. worse.. wrote:
York1900 wrote:
It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property

Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax

It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not
So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day.
As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement.
In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..
The unemployed still have to pay council tax so there should not be case for students not to pay council tax
[quote][p][bold]Things can only get.. worse..[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]York1900[/bold] wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not[/p][/quote]So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day. As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement. In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..[/p][/quote]The unemployed still have to pay council tax so there should not be case for students not to pay council tax York1900
  • Score: 1

3:43pm Tue 19 Aug 14

notpedallingpaul says...

CaroleBaines wrote:
smudge2 wrote:
pbrowne2009@live.co. uk wrote:
Oaklands Resident wrote: On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying. It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability. Must be one or the other surely?
I've never thought about that before. Renting a home for profit is the same as running a business. So why do landlords not pay business rates? You can bet most landlords don't declare rental income on their self assessment tax returns. Not saying all don't but I can bet anything that this happens. That's the joys or private letting, you can literally do as you please and charge what you want while doing nothing at all. (yours sincerely: bitter tenant )
You always have the option of buying your own houses instead of moaning .If it wasn't for private Landlords you would have no where to live as councils can't provide enough properties for the population to live in and nobody forces people to rent a home.Its your life and how you live it and work it in your own hands.
Nonsense. Housing stock is reduced by landlords who buy up 'homes' to make easy money. Thus lowering demand, artificially inflating prices and making a fortune. Landlords receive huge rents, often paid for by the tax payer since the abolition of the rent cap, AND see their investment values rise, AND don't pay council tax. Time we clamped down on these people and they paid their way. No I am not a student, nor do I rent, nor am I a Marxist stooge, just someone who wants some fairness.
I think that the majority of people in york, including myself, would be in total agreement on that CB
[quote][p][bold]CaroleBaines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smudge2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pbrowne2009@live.co. uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oaklands Resident[/bold] wrote: On balance I would say that the Council policy was probably right. However the implication that Landlords would otherwise "dump" rubbish illegally is worrying. It about time that student lets were either charged normal Council Tax or the Landlords were subject to the Business Rates liability. Must be one or the other surely?[/p][/quote]I've never thought about that before. Renting a home for profit is the same as running a business. So why do landlords not pay business rates? You can bet most landlords don't declare rental income on their self assessment tax returns. Not saying all don't but I can bet anything that this happens. That's the joys or private letting, you can literally do as you please and charge what you want while doing nothing at all. (yours sincerely: bitter tenant )[/p][/quote]You always have the option of buying your own houses instead of moaning .If it wasn't for private Landlords you would have no where to live as councils can't provide enough properties for the population to live in and nobody forces people to rent a home.Its your life and how you live it and work it in your own hands.[/p][/quote]Nonsense. Housing stock is reduced by landlords who buy up 'homes' to make easy money. Thus lowering demand, artificially inflating prices and making a fortune. Landlords receive huge rents, often paid for by the tax payer since the abolition of the rent cap, AND see their investment values rise, AND don't pay council tax. Time we clamped down on these people and they paid their way. No I am not a student, nor do I rent, nor am I a Marxist stooge, just someone who wants some fairness.[/p][/quote]I think that the majority of people in york, including myself, would be in total agreement on that CB notpedallingpaul
  • Score: 3

4:08pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Things can only get.. worse.. says...

York1900 wrote:
Things can only get.. worse.. wrote:
York1900 wrote:
It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property

Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax

It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not
So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day.
As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement.
In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..
The unemployed still have to pay council tax so there should not be case for students not to pay council tax
Oh dear York1900, you seem to have completely missed my point..
Yes, the unemployed still pay council tax. I paid council tax before I became a post-grad. But my point is that the majority of unemployed are able to claim some form of council benefit, be it housing, reductions, job seekers etc. Not all students are eligible for student loans and bursaries - how many times do I have to explain this? I received a teeny tiny amount of help towards accommodation etc. and barely had enough to buy course texts and food. If you're going to start charging students council tax, you need to start allowing them to claim housing benefit and job seekers (if eligible, of course). Otherwise you're going to end up with no students from poor family backgrounds in higher education and more young people in unemployment. CHARGE THE LANDLORDS, they are the ones laughing all the way to the bank..
[quote][p][bold]York1900[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Things can only get.. worse..[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]York1900[/bold] wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not[/p][/quote]So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day. As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement. In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..[/p][/quote]The unemployed still have to pay council tax so there should not be case for students not to pay council tax[/p][/quote]Oh dear York1900, you seem to have completely missed my point.. Yes, the unemployed still pay council tax. I paid council tax before I became a post-grad. But my point is that the majority of unemployed are able to claim some form of council benefit, be it housing, reductions, job seekers etc. Not all students are eligible for student loans and bursaries - how many times do I have to explain this? I received a teeny tiny amount of help towards accommodation etc. and barely had enough to buy course texts and food. If you're going to start charging students council tax, you need to start allowing them to claim housing benefit and job seekers (if eligible, of course). Otherwise you're going to end up with no students from poor family backgrounds in higher education and more young people in unemployment. CHARGE THE LANDLORDS, they are the ones laughing all the way to the bank.. Things can only get.. worse..
  • Score: 0

4:27pm Tue 19 Aug 14

m dee says...

As well as been unfair on the rest of the Businesses /residents who do pay this encourages the one big clear out which if the picture is anything to go by goes to landfill.
Why not recycle like the rest of us do no wonder we are now charged £5 for extra recycle boxes and £35 for extra green bin,not surprising I have seen neighbours putting extra garden waste in the black bin.
As well as been unfair on the rest of the Businesses /residents who do pay this encourages the one big clear out which if the picture is anything to go by goes to landfill. Why not recycle like the rest of us do no wonder we are now charged £5 for extra recycle boxes and £35 for extra green bin,not surprising I have seen neighbours putting extra garden waste in the black bin. m dee
  • Score: 0

4:29pm Tue 19 Aug 14

archieboldthe2nd says...

Things can only get.. worse.. wrote:
archieboldthe2nd wrote:
Things can only get.. worse.. wrote:
York1900 wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not
So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day. As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement. In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..
i did..... but I was part time and working on day release (why pay for uni yourself ey) . But one thing I did notice was most courses require attendance for say 2 "days" a week. Most of the full timers didn’t bother turning up. Don't get me wrong there were a few good eggs. But I always say this, if you knew you weren't going to be able to afford uni, gas electric etc etc why make the choice to go (or in your case continue)? Live at home? commute? I know lads who used to drive from derby to leeds each time to attend uni as they couldn't afford to do it. No one is forcing you to live or study here? you chose it.
I understand the point you're making, but surely this is another debate. Do you really want to see only the rich go to university? Yes, my choice to attend university and to continue with education as post-grad, but I ask you to consider the flip side of that choice. What would the other alternatives be? In the case of the lads you mentioned commuting from Derby to Leeds - when was that exactly? Would you really consider doing that now? With petrol costs. And of course, I would need to learn to drive, so I would have to pay for lessons, testing, a car and insurance.. oh and petrol for the massive commute. And if I wasn't to attend university, it would mean staying in my parental home, working locally (or at least try to find a job locally) and then - hopefully, eventually - being able to move out, get some independence. In short - my choices would be fairly limited. I went to university because I wanted to become an academic and continue down the career path I chose at college. Many students choose university for similar reasons, the majority so they have a better chance of gaining a qualification that will allow them to pursue their career choices. Who doesn't want that option? Who wouldn't want that for their children? Should all students just give up on their career choices because the fees have risen and so affording university and all that comes with it is now a struggle? Would you rather have a whole load of unemployed 18 - 20 somethings living on your street, claiming off the council for housing and job seekers? How would that make the situation any better? To go back to the original argument here - which seems to have been forgotten - landlords make A LOT of money off students for poor accommodation, and so should pay at least part of the way towards ensuring the streets are kept clear of student rubbish. See above comments for my own experience of student lets, and how we were basically told to either remove the bin bags from our black bin BY HAND and take them to the tip, or to pay for the council to come out especially to collect a couple of bin bags. In the end we were charged £60.00 for rubbish which could have been collected on the normal collection date 2 days after our tenancy ended. We were stereotyped and penalized for having a normal amount of household waste - our treatment was disgusting. No wonder there are students who dump waste!
Well it was about 3 years ago so not really that long.... Yes driving does have a cost associated too.. But again this is where costs come.. is 2 trips in a car a week with petrol costing say £30 (obv assuming you already run a car etc) cheaper then paying £60pwpp plus bills etc? i'd say yes... but if you choose to stay and pay then you can’t complain.. you could buy a nice car from what you would save… you’d just loose out on the uni life of drinking lying round and getting high (on education obviously)

Well sometimes people go back to uni after taking a bit of time out? Maybe to save money up etc. I can see why you would want to carry straight on mind.

Yes tuition fees for certain courses at certain uni's have gone up. Again it’s a choice of what uni you choose. But there are loans to take out to cover such expenses. All I’m saying is you've chosen to go academic for longer then most but it was a choice. Some can't as like you say they can't afford it. I use 9k as its the max I think? Personally my uni didn't touch mine. I know some went up by like 1k or so...which compared to running a house is not really worth mentioning.

But i know blokes who were in their 30's/40's doing a phd part time. The fact of modern life is you fit what you can in and what you can afford.

But yes I agree the above is off topic and I have no sympathy for people who want to study forever and complain they can’t afford to live.

As for landlords making loads off students?? yes they do... but then (again knowing people who do let student places) you have to spend between 3k-6k of that money each time they leave to get cleaners in and to repair all the damage. They are in the fortunate position of its cheap and its cr@p but students will have it because they don't want to spend more on private renting. It fits a purpose is what I would say. You also have to account generally unless you have loads rented out its not worth it... property prices don't rise much in those areas, the house gets trashed so you are loosing out on the housing market gains.

As for seeing loads of 18-20 somethings being on the dole. No... i'd rather see skilled labour increase really... some areas are lacking at the moment. Jointing for example.... you can charge what you want if you are qualified but there is no one taking up the training. Why? because 18-20 year olds are mainly too busy doing pointless degrees getting into debt. Leeds uni actually did a casino management course! i imagine this to be like the film 21. Obviously some do take it seriously like yourself and take it further. As for the jam role... i'd say a fair few students head onto that route after passing and not having any jobs lined up... (i know at least one) In fact I know a few who have ended up back at the bottom of the ladder learning a trade… after all a degree after 2 years of qualification is only worth wiping your ar@e with…

You weren't really stereotyped.... you were a student living in student digs and had 6 bags of rubbish (think you said that earlier if it was 2 drop them in a bin on your walk into town)? Yes the landlord should have cleared his stuff or you should have left it were it was... You were stereotyped but it was bang on really…

Personally I would have left it knowing councils are as good at chasing debts as a fat bloke is a salad.
[quote][p][bold]Things can only get.. worse..[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]archieboldthe2nd[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Things can only get.. worse..[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]York1900[/bold] wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not[/p][/quote]So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day. As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement. In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..[/p][/quote]i did..... but I was part time and working on day release (why pay for uni yourself ey) . But one thing I did notice was most courses require attendance for say 2 "days" a week. Most of the full timers didn’t bother turning up. Don't get me wrong there were a few good eggs. But I always say this, if you knew you weren't going to be able to afford uni, gas electric etc etc why make the choice to go (or in your case continue)? Live at home? commute? I know lads who used to drive from derby to leeds each time to attend uni as they couldn't afford to do it. No one is forcing you to live or study here? you chose it.[/p][/quote]I understand the point you're making, but surely this is another debate. Do you really want to see only the rich go to university? Yes, my choice to attend university and to continue with education as post-grad, but I ask you to consider the flip side of that choice. What would the other alternatives be? In the case of the lads you mentioned commuting from Derby to Leeds - when was that exactly? Would you really consider doing that now? With petrol costs. And of course, I would need to learn to drive, so I would have to pay for lessons, testing, a car and insurance.. oh and petrol for the massive commute. And if I wasn't to attend university, it would mean staying in my parental home, working locally (or at least try to find a job locally) and then - hopefully, eventually - being able to move out, get some independence. In short - my choices would be fairly limited. I went to university because I wanted to become an academic and continue down the career path I chose at college. Many students choose university for similar reasons, the majority so they have a better chance of gaining a qualification that will allow them to pursue their career choices. Who doesn't want that option? Who wouldn't want that for their children? Should all students just give up on their career choices because the fees have risen and so affording university and all that comes with it is now a struggle? Would you rather have a whole load of unemployed 18 - 20 somethings living on your street, claiming off the council for housing and job seekers? How would that make the situation any better? To go back to the original argument here - which seems to have been forgotten - landlords make A LOT of money off students for poor accommodation, and so should pay at least part of the way towards ensuring the streets are kept clear of student rubbish. See above comments for my own experience of student lets, and how we were basically told to either remove the bin bags from our black bin BY HAND and take them to the tip, or to pay for the council to come out especially to collect a couple of bin bags. In the end we were charged £60.00 for rubbish which could have been collected on the normal collection date 2 days after our tenancy ended. We were stereotyped and penalized for having a normal amount of household waste - our treatment was disgusting. No wonder there are students who dump waste![/p][/quote]Well it was about 3 years ago so not really that long.... Yes driving does have a cost associated too.. But again this is where costs come.. is 2 trips in a car a week with petrol costing say £30 (obv assuming you already run a car etc) cheaper then paying £60pwpp plus bills etc? i'd say yes... but if you choose to stay and pay then you can’t complain.. you could buy a nice car from what you would save… you’d just loose out on the uni life of drinking lying round and getting high (on education obviously) Well sometimes people go back to uni after taking a bit of time out? Maybe to save money up etc. I can see why you would want to carry straight on mind. Yes tuition fees for certain courses at certain uni's have gone up. Again it’s a choice of what uni you choose. But there are loans to take out to cover such expenses. All I’m saying is you've chosen to go academic for longer then most but it was a choice. Some can't as like you say they can't afford it. I use 9k as its the max I think? Personally my uni didn't touch mine. I know some went up by like 1k or so...which compared to running a house is not really worth mentioning. But i know blokes who were in their 30's/40's doing a phd part time. The fact of modern life is you fit what you can in and what you can afford. But yes I agree the above is off topic and I have no sympathy for people who want to study forever and complain they can’t afford to live. As for landlords making loads off students?? yes they do... but then (again knowing people who do let student places) you have to spend between 3k-6k of that money each time they leave to get cleaners in and to repair all the damage. They are in the fortunate position of its cheap and its cr@p but students will have it because they don't want to spend more on private renting. It fits a purpose is what I would say. You also have to account generally unless you have loads rented out its not worth it... property prices don't rise much in those areas, the house gets trashed so you are loosing out on the housing market gains. As for seeing loads of 18-20 somethings being on the dole. No... i'd rather see skilled labour increase really... some areas are lacking at the moment. Jointing for example.... you can charge what you want if you are qualified but there is no one taking up the training. Why? because 18-20 year olds are mainly too busy doing pointless degrees getting into debt. Leeds uni actually did a casino management course! i imagine this to be like the film 21. Obviously some do take it seriously like yourself and take it further. As for the jam role... i'd say a fair few students head onto that route after passing and not having any jobs lined up... (i know at least one) In fact I know a few who have ended up back at the bottom of the ladder learning a trade… after all a degree after 2 years of qualification is only worth wiping your ar@e with… You weren't really stereotyped.... you were a student living in student digs and had 6 bags of rubbish (think you said that earlier if it was 2 drop them in a bin on your walk into town)? Yes the landlord should have cleared his stuff or you should have left it were it was... You were stereotyped but it was bang on really… Personally I would have left it knowing councils are as good at chasing debts as a fat bloke is a salad. archieboldthe2nd
  • Score: 2

4:46pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Cheeky face says...

johnwill wrote:
The real issue is surely why student properties are free of council tax, they use the Councils amenities, facilities, infrastructure etc as much as anyone else, so why should they not pay towards the cost ?
At least they or their landlords would have then contributed through council tax towards the expense of tidying up after them when they leave the properties .
Government decided that students do not pay council tax!
[quote][p][bold]johnwill[/bold] wrote: The real issue is surely why student properties are free of council tax, they use the Councils amenities, facilities, infrastructure etc as much as anyone else, so why should they not pay towards the cost ? At least they or their landlords would have then contributed through council tax towards the expense of tidying up after them when they leave the properties .[/p][/quote]Government decided that students do not pay council tax! Cheeky face
  • Score: 1

5:08pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Things can only get.. worse.. says...

archieboldthe2nd wrote:
Things can only get.. worse.. wrote:
archieboldthe2nd wrote:
Things can only get.. worse.. wrote:
York1900 wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not
So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day. As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement. In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..
i did..... but I was part time and working on day release (why pay for uni yourself ey) . But one thing I did notice was most courses require attendance for say 2 "days" a week. Most of the full timers didn’t bother turning up. Don't get me wrong there were a few good eggs. But I always say this, if you knew you weren't going to be able to afford uni, gas electric etc etc why make the choice to go (or in your case continue)? Live at home? commute? I know lads who used to drive from derby to leeds each time to attend uni as they couldn't afford to do it. No one is forcing you to live or study here? you chose it.
I understand the point you're making, but surely this is another debate. Do you really want to see only the rich go to university? Yes, my choice to attend university and to continue with education as post-grad, but I ask you to consider the flip side of that choice. What would the other alternatives be? In the case of the lads you mentioned commuting from Derby to Leeds - when was that exactly? Would you really consider doing that now? With petrol costs. And of course, I would need to learn to drive, so I would have to pay for lessons, testing, a car and insurance.. oh and petrol for the massive commute. And if I wasn't to attend university, it would mean staying in my parental home, working locally (or at least try to find a job locally) and then - hopefully, eventually - being able to move out, get some independence. In short - my choices would be fairly limited. I went to university because I wanted to become an academic and continue down the career path I chose at college. Many students choose university for similar reasons, the majority so they have a better chance of gaining a qualification that will allow them to pursue their career choices. Who doesn't want that option? Who wouldn't want that for their children? Should all students just give up on their career choices because the fees have risen and so affording university and all that comes with it is now a struggle? Would you rather have a whole load of unemployed 18 - 20 somethings living on your street, claiming off the council for housing and job seekers? How would that make the situation any better? To go back to the original argument here - which seems to have been forgotten - landlords make A LOT of money off students for poor accommodation, and so should pay at least part of the way towards ensuring the streets are kept clear of student rubbish. See above comments for my own experience of student lets, and how we were basically told to either remove the bin bags from our black bin BY HAND and take them to the tip, or to pay for the council to come out especially to collect a couple of bin bags. In the end we were charged £60.00 for rubbish which could have been collected on the normal collection date 2 days after our tenancy ended. We were stereotyped and penalized for having a normal amount of household waste - our treatment was disgusting. No wonder there are students who dump waste!
Well it was about 3 years ago so not really that long.... Yes driving does have a cost associated too.. But again this is where costs come.. is 2 trips in a car a week with petrol costing say £30 (obv assuming you already run a car etc) cheaper then paying £60pwpp plus bills etc? i'd say yes... but if you choose to stay and pay then you can’t complain.. you could buy a nice car from what you would save… you’d just loose out on the uni life of drinking lying round and getting high (on education obviously)

Well sometimes people go back to uni after taking a bit of time out? Maybe to save money up etc. I can see why you would want to carry straight on mind.

Yes tuition fees for certain courses at certain uni's have gone up. Again it’s a choice of what uni you choose. But there are loans to take out to cover such expenses. All I’m saying is you've chosen to go academic for longer then most but it was a choice. Some can't as like you say they can't afford it. I use 9k as its the max I think? Personally my uni didn't touch mine. I know some went up by like 1k or so...which compared to running a house is not really worth mentioning.

But i know blokes who were in their 30's/40's doing a phd part time. The fact of modern life is you fit what you can in and what you can afford.

But yes I agree the above is off topic and I have no sympathy for people who want to study forever and complain they can’t afford to live.

As for landlords making loads off students?? yes they do... but then (again knowing people who do let student places) you have to spend between 3k-6k of that money each time they leave to get cleaners in and to repair all the damage. They are in the fortunate position of its cheap and its cr@p but students will have it because they don't want to spend more on private renting. It fits a purpose is what I would say. You also have to account generally unless you have loads rented out its not worth it... property prices don't rise much in those areas, the house gets trashed so you are loosing out on the housing market gains.

As for seeing loads of 18-20 somethings being on the dole. No... i'd rather see skilled labour increase really... some areas are lacking at the moment. Jointing for example.... you can charge what you want if you are qualified but there is no one taking up the training. Why? because 18-20 year olds are mainly too busy doing pointless degrees getting into debt. Leeds uni actually did a casino management course! i imagine this to be like the film 21. Obviously some do take it seriously like yourself and take it further. As for the jam role... i'd say a fair few students head onto that route after passing and not having any jobs lined up... (i know at least one) In fact I know a few who have ended up back at the bottom of the ladder learning a trade… after all a degree after 2 years of qualification is only worth wiping your ar@e with…

You weren't really stereotyped.... you were a student living in student digs and had 6 bags of rubbish (think you said that earlier if it was 2 drop them in a bin on your walk into town)? Yes the landlord should have cleared his stuff or you should have left it were it was... You were stereotyped but it was bang on really…

Personally I would have left it knowing councils are as good at chasing debts as a fat bloke is a salad.
Ok.. I take your point re commuting. Yes, it would be cheaper, but like you say, that is assuming all the other costs of owning a car have been met.
Student experience you've suggested is again a negative stereotype. Not all students drink, drug and dos their lives away for 3 years. Just like not all students are messy and hoard bin bags full of rotting food..
As for the loans you mention re expenses - yes, they exist, but not everyone is able to take out a student loan. I can't comment on bank loans because I've never had one, but I imagine it still wouldn't be enough to cover living costs.
I do my PhD part-time for those reasons you mention - as for having no sympathy, that is your prerogative. But I'm not complaining about my situation so much as I'm complaining about the treatment of students here. And no offence, but I can't imagine for one second that landlords spend 3 - 6k - of their own money - on property maintenance. If a property is damaged or in need of cleaning, that money is taken out of the property bonds, hence why such bonds exist to cover for these expenses. There are students who leave houses in a mess. But there are also students who abide by the rules and contact the landlord when problems arise and are still penalized for their actions.
And yes, skilled labor is obviously a great option. Apprenticeship schemes are really developing at the moment, which is great. And yes, you will get students taking degrees and then going back to learn a trade, but there's nothing 'pointless' in that. Everyone has a right to education.
And as for your last comments.. was I or wasn't I stereotyped? The very fact that you've just said 'if it was 2 drop them in a bin on your walk into town?' you've clearly missed the entire point of this article. How was it bang on stereotyping? As mentioned in previous comments, our black bin wasn't overflowing. When we put the last bin bag in the lid still closed fully. Surely it's not unreasonable for me to expect the landlord to leave the rubbish for the council to collect on the normal bin collection day (which I mentioned was only 2 days after the end of our tenancy)? It is COMPLETELY unreasonable to ask anyone to pull bin bags of rotten food out of a bin which isn't overflowing - putting themselves at risk of illness - because the landlord isn't happy to wait 2 days for the normal bin collection. MADNESS..
[quote][p][bold]archieboldthe2nd[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Things can only get.. worse..[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]archieboldthe2nd[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Things can only get.. worse..[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]York1900[/bold] wrote: It is time that student were treated the same as single people living in a property Eg: they are charged council tax at single person rate so each student would have to pay council tax It is no wonder the council is short of money and need to put up council tax charges on the rest of us when there are thousands of students not paying towards the council tax when every one else as to pay council tax no mater if they have a job or not[/p][/quote]So you would have students on low-income, many of whom do actually have difficulty getting jobs and studying at the same time, pay a ridiculous sum of money on top of their tuition fees, housing fees, water rates, gas and elec bills etc? Not all students will be able to claim loans and bursaries. Many will have to rely on family to foot the bill. No council will offer additional financial aid to students on undergrad courses as they do to the unemployed. Post-grad students face the same difficulties. Slowly but surely it seems we are regressing back to a time where only those who can afford it will be able to attend university.. but that is another debate for another day. As a PhD student, I have been extremely lucky to have a family who have been able to support me. I don't worry about tuition fees as other students might. But I do worry about when the rent is due, and when I'll have to pay the next water bill. I worry about food and paying for necessities. I was unemployed for almost a year, but as I lived as a post-grad student with a partner, I was unable to claim housing benefit or job seeker's allowance to support myself. More money went out then came in - the only silver lining was the council tax reduction offered for students on my partner's statement. In conclusion: there is no point trying to take money from people who don't have any money coming in. Especially from those who are trying their very best to make a difference for themselves - to work hard and to get a job that will allow them to contribute in the future. How many of you commenting here paid council tax when studying? I would love to see those figures..[/p][/quote]i did..... but I was part time and working on day release (why pay for uni yourself ey) . But one thing I did notice was most courses require attendance for say 2 "days" a week. Most of the full timers didn’t bother turning up. Don't get me wrong there were a few good eggs. But I always say this, if you knew you weren't going to be able to afford uni, gas electric etc etc why make the choice to go (or in your case continue)? Live at home? commute? I know lads who used to drive from derby to leeds each time to attend uni as they couldn't afford to do it. No one is forcing you to live or study here? you chose it.[/p][/quote]I understand the point you're making, but surely this is another debate. Do you really want to see only the rich go to university? Yes, my choice to attend university and to continue with education as post-grad, but I ask you to consider the flip side of that choice. What would the other alternatives be? In the case of the lads you mentioned commuting from Derby to Leeds - when was that exactly? Would you really consider doing that now? With petrol costs. And of course, I would need to learn to drive, so I would have to pay for lessons, testing, a car and insurance.. oh and petrol for the massive commute. And if I wasn't to attend university, it would mean staying in my parental home, working locally (or at least try to find a job locally) and then - hopefully, eventually - being able to move out, get some independence. In short - my choices would be fairly limited. I went to university because I wanted to become an academic and continue down the career path I chose at college. Many students choose university for similar reasons, the majority so they have a better chance of gaining a qualification that will allow them to pursue their career choices. Who doesn't want that option? Who wouldn't want that for their children? Should all students just give up on their career choices because the fees have risen and so affording university and all that comes with it is now a struggle? Would you rather have a whole load of unemployed 18 - 20 somethings living on your street, claiming off the council for housing and job seekers? How would that make the situation any better? To go back to the original argument here - which seems to have been forgotten - landlords make A LOT of money off students for poor accommodation, and so should pay at least part of the way towards ensuring the streets are kept clear of student rubbish. See above comments for my own experience of student lets, and how we were basically told to either remove the bin bags from our black bin BY HAND and take them to the tip, or to pay for the council to come out especially to collect a couple of bin bags. In the end we were charged £60.00 for rubbish which could have been collected on the normal collection date 2 days after our tenancy ended. We were stereotyped and penalized for having a normal amount of household waste - our treatment was disgusting. No wonder there are students who dump waste![/p][/quote]Well it was about 3 years ago so not really that long.... Yes driving does have a cost associated too.. But again this is where costs come.. is 2 trips in a car a week with petrol costing say £30 (obv assuming you already run a car etc) cheaper then paying £60pwpp plus bills etc? i'd say yes... but if you choose to stay and pay then you can’t complain.. you could buy a nice car from what you would save… you’d just loose out on the uni life of drinking lying round and getting high (on education obviously) Well sometimes people go back to uni after taking a bit of time out? Maybe to save money up etc. I can see why you would want to carry straight on mind. Yes tuition fees for certain courses at certain uni's have gone up. Again it’s a choice of what uni you choose. But there are loans to take out to cover such expenses. All I’m saying is you've chosen to go academic for longer then most but it was a choice. Some can't as like you say they can't afford it. I use 9k as its the max I think? Personally my uni didn't touch mine. I know some went up by like 1k or so...which compared to running a house is not really worth mentioning. But i know blokes who were in their 30's/40's doing a phd part time. The fact of modern life is you fit what you can in and what you can afford. But yes I agree the above is off topic and I have no sympathy for people who want to study forever and complain they can’t afford to live. As for landlords making loads off students?? yes they do... but then (again knowing people who do let student places) you have to spend between 3k-6k of that money each time they leave to get cleaners in and to repair all the damage. They are in the fortunate position of its cheap and its cr@p but students will have it because they don't want to spend more on private renting. It fits a purpose is what I would say. You also have to account generally unless you have loads rented out its not worth it... property prices don't rise much in those areas, the house gets trashed so you are loosing out on the housing market gains. As for seeing loads of 18-20 somethings being on the dole. No... i'd rather see skilled labour increase really... some areas are lacking at the moment. Jointing for example.... you can charge what you want if you are qualified but there is no one taking up the training. Why? because 18-20 year olds are mainly too busy doing pointless degrees getting into debt. Leeds uni actually did a casino management course! i imagine this to be like the film 21. Obviously some do take it seriously like yourself and take it further. As for the jam role... i'd say a fair few students head onto that route after passing and not having any jobs lined up... (i know at least one) In fact I know a few who have ended up back at the bottom of the ladder learning a trade… after all a degree after 2 years of qualification is only worth wiping your ar@e with… You weren't really stereotyped.... you were a student living in student digs and had 6 bags of rubbish (think you said that earlier if it was 2 drop them in a bin on your walk into town)? Yes the landlord should have cleared his stuff or you should have left it were it was... You were stereotyped but it was bang on really… Personally I would have left it knowing councils are as good at chasing debts as a fat bloke is a salad.[/p][/quote]Ok.. I take your point re commuting. Yes, it would be cheaper, but like you say, that is assuming all the other costs of owning a car have been met. Student experience you've suggested is again a negative stereotype. Not all students drink, drug and dos their lives away for 3 years. Just like not all students are messy and hoard bin bags full of rotting food.. As for the loans you mention re expenses - yes, they exist, but not everyone is able to take out a student loan. I can't comment on bank loans because I've never had one, but I imagine it still wouldn't be enough to cover living costs. I do my PhD part-time for those reasons you mention - as for having no sympathy, that is your prerogative. But I'm not complaining about my situation so much as I'm complaining about the treatment of students here. And no offence, but I can't imagine for one second that landlords spend 3 - 6k - of their own money - on property maintenance. If a property is damaged or in need of cleaning, that money is taken out of the property bonds, hence why such bonds exist to cover for these expenses. There are students who leave houses in a mess. But there are also students who abide by the rules and contact the landlord when problems arise and are still penalized for their actions. And yes, skilled labor is obviously a great option. Apprenticeship schemes are really developing at the moment, which is great. And yes, you will get students taking degrees and then going back to learn a trade, but there's nothing 'pointless' in that. Everyone has a right to education. And as for your last comments.. was I or wasn't I stereotyped? The very fact that you've just said 'if it was 2 drop them in a bin on your walk into town?' you've clearly missed the entire point of this article. How was it bang on stereotyping? As mentioned in previous comments, our black bin wasn't overflowing. When we put the last bin bag in the lid still closed fully. Surely it's not unreasonable for me to expect the landlord to leave the rubbish for the council to collect on the normal bin collection day (which I mentioned was only 2 days after the end of our tenancy)? It is COMPLETELY unreasonable to ask anyone to pull bin bags of rotten food out of a bin which isn't overflowing - putting themselves at risk of illness - because the landlord isn't happy to wait 2 days for the normal bin collection. MADNESS.. Things can only get.. worse..
  • Score: -1

5:33pm Tue 19 Aug 14

archieboldthe2nd says...

A bond doesn't cover half the damage hence the need for insurances.

I don't think I've missed the point really? I think you said several bin bangs in a back room and some in a bin? It's your mess dispose of it yourselves? It's not the land lord creating it? Why should the landlord take bin bags from your room? Are you above him?

Illnesses? Yes that's why bin men often die on duty... If you thought it was unfair why sign up to the contract? Why have bin bags in a spare room that weren't in the bin...

So how was the stereotype wrong?? You are a student? You were going to leave rubbish for him to sort? Hence the contract clause. Besides it's £60 between 4 of you!! £15 each... You think you have it bad?! I got fined £60 for parking and having a tyre hanging over a line.... Not to mention the £30 that fell out of my pocket playing golf. Least your money went to something useful.
A bond doesn't cover half the damage hence the need for insurances. I don't think I've missed the point really? I think you said several bin bangs in a back room and some in a bin? It's your mess dispose of it yourselves? It's not the land lord creating it? Why should the landlord take bin bags from your room? Are you above him? Illnesses? Yes that's why bin men often die on duty... If you thought it was unfair why sign up to the contract? Why have bin bags in a spare room that weren't in the bin... So how was the stereotype wrong?? You are a student? You were going to leave rubbish for him to sort? Hence the contract clause. Besides it's £60 between 4 of you!! £15 each... You think you have it bad?! I got fined £60 for parking and having a tyre hanging over a line.... Not to mention the £30 that fell out of my pocket playing golf. Least your money went to something useful. archieboldthe2nd
  • Score: 3

6:10pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Things can only get.. worse.. says...

archieboldthe2nd wrote:
A bond doesn't cover half the damage hence the need for insurances.

I don't think I've missed the point really? I think you said several bin bangs in a back room and some in a bin? It's your mess dispose of it yourselves? It's not the land lord creating it? Why should the landlord take bin bags from your room? Are you above him?

Illnesses? Yes that's why bin men often die on duty... If you thought it was unfair why sign up to the contract? Why have bin bags in a spare room that weren't in the bin...

So how was the stereotype wrong?? You are a student? You were going to leave rubbish for him to sort? Hence the contract clause. Besides it's £60 between 4 of you!! £15 each... You think you have it bad?! I got fined £60 for parking and having a tyre hanging over a line.... Not to mention the £30 that fell out of my pocket playing golf. Least your money went to something useful.
Ok this is getting a little bit out of hand. Think you need to read a bit more carefully before commenting.
And actually we were charged £200.00 odd in the end. If bonds don't cover half the damage, why then did they only take the £200.00? They could have easily taken more than the £200.00 from us because it would have been within their rights, yeah? So no, I have absolutely no sympathy for landlords who let student houses. And for your information, those extra charges were relating to a bike left in the spare room by previous tenants which had marked the spare room carpet. Landlord and letting agency were fully aware of the state of the property and what was left there BEFORE we moved in. In fact, when we viewed the property, we were told the room would be cleared BEFORE we moved in. So how is any of that our fault? Why should we have been responsible for clearing away after other people? Cleaning and house moving can be difficult enough without the added bonus of some other person's leftovers to contend with. Also nothing was said about the landlord taking bags from the rooms we actually lived in, by the way. Other than the spare room and the bin (which, for like the 5th time I'd like to stress, was not overfilled) the house was spotless. So if you're going to comment, please check the facts first, and imagine what you would do in the same position. Would YOU have cleared the room for the landlord, if you were expecting to move into a new property? Yes, I mentioned a spare room filled with rubbish, but I didn't stipulate what rubbish did I? If you must know, it was extra bedding, card board boxes from moving, broken desks and chairs etc.
Haha, so all students are OBLIGED to leave rubbish, now? Is that part of the stereotype? In which case, no I wasn't a student, I didn't do any of the so-called student things you've mentioned thus far. When will people stop being so hyper critical and start treating young adults and students as actual hard working law abiding citizens? I could easily stereotype you for your bad parking and golf-playing y'know..
[quote][p][bold]archieboldthe2nd[/bold] wrote: A bond doesn't cover half the damage hence the need for insurances. I don't think I've missed the point really? I think you said several bin bangs in a back room and some in a bin? It's your mess dispose of it yourselves? It's not the land lord creating it? Why should the landlord take bin bags from your room? Are you above him? Illnesses? Yes that's why bin men often die on duty... If you thought it was unfair why sign up to the contract? Why have bin bags in a spare room that weren't in the bin... So how was the stereotype wrong?? You are a student? You were going to leave rubbish for him to sort? Hence the contract clause. Besides it's £60 between 4 of you!! £15 each... You think you have it bad?! I got fined £60 for parking and having a tyre hanging over a line.... Not to mention the £30 that fell out of my pocket playing golf. Least your money went to something useful.[/p][/quote]Ok this is getting a little bit out of hand. Think you need to read a bit more carefully before commenting. And actually we were charged £200.00 odd in the end. If bonds don't cover half the damage, why then did they only take the £200.00? They could have easily taken more than the £200.00 from us because it would have been within their rights, yeah? So no, I have absolutely no sympathy for landlords who let student houses. And for your information, those extra charges were relating to a bike left in the spare room by previous tenants which had marked the spare room carpet. Landlord and letting agency were fully aware of the state of the property and what was left there BEFORE we moved in. In fact, when we viewed the property, we were told the room would be cleared BEFORE we moved in. So how is any of that our fault? Why should we have been responsible for clearing away after other people? Cleaning and house moving can be difficult enough without the added bonus of some other person's leftovers to contend with. Also nothing was said about the landlord taking bags from the rooms we actually lived in, by the way. Other than the spare room and the bin (which, for like the 5th time I'd like to stress, was not overfilled) the house was spotless. So if you're going to comment, please check the facts first, and imagine what you would do in the same position. Would YOU have cleared the room for the landlord, if you were expecting to move into a new property? Yes, I mentioned a spare room filled with rubbish, but I didn't stipulate what rubbish did I? If you must know, it was extra bedding, card board boxes from moving, broken desks and chairs etc. Haha, so all students are OBLIGED to leave rubbish, now? Is that part of the stereotype? In which case, no I wasn't a student, I didn't do any of the so-called student things you've mentioned thus far. When will people stop being so hyper critical and start treating young adults and students as actual hard working law abiding citizens? I could easily stereotype you for your bad parking and golf-playing y'know.. Things can only get.. worse..
  • Score: -3

10:47am Wed 20 Aug 14

archieboldthe2nd says...

I'm not sure I do? Ok you didn't damage the house. Congrats. But usually a bond does not cover even half of the damage. Hence why the rent is high to pay for cleaning and repairs afterwards (yes this includes the landlord taking the bond) now I am lost. You said £60 why did he take £200? Also no I wouldn't clear out someone's room but as you stated I thought it was common sense to tick off the list of known defects and not to accept the property if this list changed. I.e a bike in a room or whatever it was. So these boxes and bedding were not yours? You don't need to stipulate what rubbish it is the fact you call it rubbish is significant enough to assume the land lord didn't want it! I really am struggling with your point here? You signed up to an agreement to clear the bins before you left. You didn't and there was rubbish left in a spare room (which I'm assuming is yours as you've not said it wasn't?). Then £60 turned into £200 which doesn't divide by 4 so not sure why the rest was taken? We start treating them like young adults when they don't winge about breaking an agreement they had in writing and get fined for this (oh and hard working and hard studying are different). Not sure how you would stereotype my golf? Does me dropping £30 mean I draw or hook it or I'm just all round cr@p? Either way the black and white is you left rubbish in a spare room and a bin. I don't care if the bin was full and I don't see what relevance this has as the lease said the bin must be empty when you go. Even if it had a bag in he could take cash off you.

Lesson learnt read the contracr
I'm not sure I do? Ok you didn't damage the house. Congrats. But usually a bond does not cover even half of the damage. Hence why the rent is high to pay for cleaning and repairs afterwards (yes this includes the landlord taking the bond) now I am lost. You said £60 why did he take £200? Also no I wouldn't clear out someone's room but as you stated I thought it was common sense to tick off the list of known defects and not to accept the property if this list changed. I.e a bike in a room or whatever it was. So these boxes and bedding were not yours? You don't need to stipulate what rubbish it is the fact you call it rubbish is significant enough to assume the land lord didn't want it! I really am struggling with your point here? You signed up to an agreement to clear the bins before you left. You didn't and there was rubbish left in a spare room (which I'm assuming is yours as you've not said it wasn't?). Then £60 turned into £200 which doesn't divide by 4 so not sure why the rest was taken? We start treating them like young adults when they don't winge about breaking an agreement they had in writing and get fined for this (oh and hard working and hard studying are different). Not sure how you would stereotype my golf? Does me dropping £30 mean I draw or hook it or I'm just all round cr@p? Either way the black and white is you left rubbish in a spare room and a bin. I don't care if the bin was full and I don't see what relevance this has as the lease said the bin must be empty when you go. Even if it had a bag in he could take cash off you. Lesson learnt read the contracr archieboldthe2nd
  • Score: 3

11:06am Wed 20 Aug 14

archieboldthe2nd says...

If you mean the point of the article is they get to dump it for free then yes they do. But who takes it? The letting agent or do they have to pay to have someone take it? Hence the fee? Either way the cost of someone dumping it as you didn't isn't free.
If you mean the point of the article is they get to dump it for free then yes they do. But who takes it? The letting agent or do they have to pay to have someone take it? Hence the fee? Either way the cost of someone dumping it as you didn't isn't free. archieboldthe2nd
  • Score: 4

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