Go-ahead for new toilets and shop in Exhibition Square

Exhibition Square

Exhibition Square

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NEW public toilets and a shop are on the way for Exhibition Square, despite a row over disabled access.

Councillors on the city council's area planning sub-committee approved the plans for seven unisex toilets, plus a retail unit, in a space attached to the city walls at Bootham Bar.

The old toilets have already been demolished, and work has begun on site after English Heritage already granted Scheduled Ancient Monument consent for the scheme, the committee heard.

The new plans will see half the space become a shop with a glass floor panel opening up a view of the original Roman foundations for the walls.

But before they gave their consent to the scheme in a meeting on Thursday, councillors argued over the number of toilets to be provided - seven in the new facility, down from 13 in the now demolished block - and facilities for disabled people.

The new facility will have one fully wheelchair accessible toilet but the plans show a night toilet which would not be available wheelchair users.

Cllr Fiona Fitzpatrick criticised that aspect of the scheme, and said it was unfair and unequal to expect wheelchair user to go to the Union Terrace public convenience at night instead.

She said: "I will not support any development that offers able bodied people more than disabled people."

Cllr Mark Warters also asked officials how it had been decided that seven cubicles was an adequate provision for the site, which had been one of the most heavily used public conveniences in the city.

Ward councillor Brian Watson also raised concerns about the smaller facilities, and criticised proposals to fit a shop into the space, and install a window through the wall onto Petergate.

He added: "I believe a window there is entirely alien, and I don't believe in doing things like this just to make money."

The committee eventually voted for the proposals, but insisted that a point be added to the plans asking the operators Healthmatic to look at alterations to make the night toilet fully wheelchair accessible.

The development is part of a £650,000 programme to improve public conveniences across York, which has already seen renovations at Union Terrace and Nunnery Lane car parks.

Comments (25)

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8:19am Sat 9 Aug 14

Fat Harry says...

The old loos were rank, glad to see the back of them. Not looking forward to the inevitable queues for the inadequate new provision.
The old loos were rank, glad to see the back of them. Not looking forward to the inevitable queues for the inadequate new provision. Fat Harry
  • Score: 24

8:25am Sat 9 Aug 14

pedalling paul says...

That will be a great relief. With Bootham Bar plus the Art Gallery loos out of action at present, it's a long cross-legged walk into town.
That will be a great relief. With Bootham Bar plus the Art Gallery loos out of action at present, it's a long cross-legged walk into town. pedalling paul
  • Score: 11

8:34am Sat 9 Aug 14

Fat Harry says...

Come off it PP, on your trusty bike, you can be at Tanner Row in a couple of minutes.
Come off it PP, on your trusty bike, you can be at Tanner Row in a couple of minutes. Fat Harry
  • Score: 26

8:54am Sat 9 Aug 14

AnotherPointofView says...

Fat Harry wrote:
The old loos were rank, glad to see the back of them. Not looking forward to the inevitable queues for the inadequate new provision.
Agreed FH, they were awful. No doubt though, it'll cost a fortune to spend a penny.
[quote][p][bold]Fat Harry[/bold] wrote: The old loos were rank, glad to see the back of them. Not looking forward to the inevitable queues for the inadequate new provision.[/p][/quote]Agreed FH, they were awful. No doubt though, it'll cost a fortune to spend a penny. AnotherPointofView
  • Score: 23

10:05am Sat 9 Aug 14

Yorkie41 says...

It is all right the Council ticking all the boxes for these facilities but in my opinion the main thing is that they should provide an environment that is beneficial to most user groups.
It is all right the Council ticking all the boxes for these facilities but in my opinion the main thing is that they should provide an environment that is beneficial to most user groups. Yorkie41
  • Score: 2

10:23am Sat 9 Aug 14

ouseswimmer says...

.That works out to about £100,000 per toilet unit. Are they gold plated too?
.That works out to about £100,000 per toilet unit. Are they gold plated too? ouseswimmer
  • Score: 14

11:06am Sat 9 Aug 14

Acomblady says...

The library and art gallery toilets are closed, they knocked down the public toilets and didn't have planning permission to build new ones! Don't people need toilets these days. Very bad planning
The library and art gallery toilets are closed, they knocked down the public toilets and didn't have planning permission to build new ones! Don't people need toilets these days. Very bad planning Acomblady
  • Score: 21

11:07am Sat 9 Aug 14

Yorkswalls says...

Nice to see work happening to improve the Walls experience for visitors and residents.
Although I am surprised this has taken priority over the 'urgent' repairs needed on Walmgate Bar and the Walls in general.A team of 10 would take years to point and repair the Walls.They need constant work maintaining them for future generations.
Anyone walking the walls can see the gaps that need re pointing,the modern way of financing these issues is to wait until a section needs urgent attention then apply for funding.Wrong!
York Heritage Group
Nice to see work happening to improve the Walls experience for visitors and residents. Although I am surprised this has taken priority over the 'urgent' repairs needed on Walmgate Bar and the Walls in general.A team of 10 would take years to point and repair the Walls.They need constant work maintaining them for future generations. Anyone walking the walls can see the gaps that need re pointing,the modern way of financing these issues is to wait until a section needs urgent attention then apply for funding.Wrong! York Heritage Group Yorkswalls
  • Score: 8

11:29am Sat 9 Aug 14

RingoStarr says...

Who gives a s**t?
Who gives a s**t? RingoStarr
  • Score: -19

11:29am Sat 9 Aug 14

RingoStarr says...

Who gives a s**t?
Who gives a s**t? RingoStarr
  • Score: -18

11:52am Sat 9 Aug 14

Jack Ham says...

Providing essential public services provides little interest to CYC and the Labour Cabinet. Why worry about toilets when you can privatise then (yep - and a labour council doing it!) and then spend your time cursing the Ouse on your tax payer funded Arts Barge on route to a fax payer funded conference and Fairness. And if that gets too heavy never mind, you can always pop off on a foreign trip to learn about 'rewiring' or 'transformation'.

At least Brian, now unshackled and independent is speaking out more. Hopefully now he's no longer under Hortons notorious whip he'll be able to give the wisdom we expect from our longest serving councillor.
Providing essential public services provides little interest to CYC and the Labour Cabinet. Why worry about toilets when you can privatise then (yep - and a labour council doing it!) and then spend your time cursing the Ouse on your tax payer funded Arts Barge on route to a fax payer funded conference and Fairness. And if that gets too heavy never mind, you can always pop off on a foreign trip to learn about 'rewiring' or 'transformation'. At least Brian, now unshackled and independent is speaking out more. Hopefully now he's no longer under Hortons notorious whip he'll be able to give the wisdom we expect from our longest serving councillor. Jack Ham
  • Score: -26

12:16pm Sat 9 Aug 14

MaisieMol says...

Speaking of public toilets, does anyone know what the deal is with the toilets which were removed from Museum Gardens to make way for the Starr Inn renovation? The Starr Inn were supposed to provide some new toilets and signage to ensure that the public would know where they were. I gather that there is no signage and that there are now 2 pretty rank toilets at the back of their building which they deliberately don't advertise in order to keep the public away. Is this right?
Speaking of public toilets, does anyone know what the deal is with the toilets which were removed from Museum Gardens to make way for the Starr Inn renovation? The Starr Inn were supposed to provide some new toilets and signage to ensure that the public would know where they were. I gather that there is no signage and that there are now 2 pretty rank toilets at the back of their building which they deliberately don't advertise in order to keep the public away. Is this right? MaisieMol
  • Score: 23

1:09pm Sat 9 Aug 14

Dave Ruddock says...

I like the council redirecting and misinforming the public, I an sure it was said they were to be "Manned" and we get a over priced, totally useless Box with little attention to cleaning, surly a manned (as in Silver Street . Surly Inconvenience from Convenience. Also agree with others, lack of these and the promise of new has again (Been Flushed )
I like the council redirecting and misinforming the public, I an sure it was said they were to be "Manned" and we get a over priced, totally useless Box with little attention to cleaning, surly a manned (as in Silver Street . Surly Inconvenience from Convenience. Also agree with others, lack of these and the promise of new has again (Been Flushed ) Dave Ruddock
  • Score: -4

1:34pm Sat 9 Aug 14

bolero says...

pedalling paul wrote:
That will be a great relief. With Bootham Bar plus the Art Gallery loos out of action at present, it's a long cross-legged walk into town.
It's a long way to piddle,sorry, pedal.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: That will be a great relief. With Bootham Bar plus the Art Gallery loos out of action at present, it's a long cross-legged walk into town.[/p][/quote]It's a long way to piddle,sorry, pedal. bolero
  • Score: 5

2:16pm Sat 9 Aug 14

Martin true Viking says...

Because of the lack of parking, the cost of the parking and the amount of time it takes to get into York. I now drive to leeds. £4 per 12 hours right in the middle of a proper city or park at Garforth and pay £2 on a train. I suggest you try it, no gangs of males and females in fancy dress no mass brawls in the streets and a host of listed buildings and architecture to admire.
Because of the lack of parking, the cost of the parking and the amount of time it takes to get into York. I now drive to leeds. £4 per 12 hours right in the middle of a proper city or park at Garforth and pay £2 on a train. I suggest you try it, no gangs of males and females in fancy dress no mass brawls in the streets and a host of listed buildings and architecture to admire. Martin true Viking
  • Score: 8

5:22pm Sat 9 Aug 14

LindaNess says...

Why does the council close facilities before the replacements are up and running? Whether it is toilets, care homes or any other facility. It does not seem like joined up thinking.
Why does the council close facilities before the replacements are up and running? Whether it is toilets, care homes or any other facility. It does not seem like joined up thinking. LindaNess
  • Score: 11

6:41pm Sat 9 Aug 14

yorkandproud says...

Dave Ruddock wrote:
I like the council redirecting and misinforming the public, I an sure it was said they were to be "Manned" and we get a over priced, totally useless Box with little attention to cleaning, surly a manned (as in Silver Street . Surly Inconvenience from Convenience. Also agree with others, lack of these and the promise of new has again (Been Flushed )
At the expense of being a troll. Another cryptic post from Dave Ruddock.
[quote][p][bold]Dave Ruddock[/bold] wrote: I like the council redirecting and misinforming the public, I an sure it was said they were to be "Manned" and we get a over priced, totally useless Box with little attention to cleaning, surly a manned (as in Silver Street . Surly Inconvenience from Convenience. Also agree with others, lack of these and the promise of new has again (Been Flushed )[/p][/quote]At the expense of being a troll. Another cryptic post from Dave Ruddock. yorkandproud
  • Score: 7

6:56pm Sat 9 Aug 14

eeoodares says...

Martin true Viking wrote:
Because of the lack of parking, the cost of the parking and the amount of time it takes to get into York. I now drive to leeds. £4 per 12 hours right in the middle of a proper city or park at Garforth and pay £2 on a train. I suggest you try it, no gangs of males and females in fancy dress no mass brawls in the streets and a host of listed buildings and architecture to admire.
Hahahaha, Leeds is not a rough night out hahaha, you could not make it up...oh hang on, you did.


Feel free to move there Marty, the houses are cheaper too!
[quote][p][bold]Martin true Viking[/bold] wrote: Because of the lack of parking, the cost of the parking and the amount of time it takes to get into York. I now drive to leeds. £4 per 12 hours right in the middle of a proper city or park at Garforth and pay £2 on a train. I suggest you try it, no gangs of males and females in fancy dress no mass brawls in the streets and a host of listed buildings and architecture to admire.[/p][/quote]Hahahaha, Leeds is not a rough night out hahaha, you could not make it up...oh hang on, you did. Feel free to move there Marty, the houses are cheaper too! eeoodares
  • Score: 0

7:43pm Sat 9 Aug 14

bolero says...

Martin true Viking wrote:
Because of the lack of parking, the cost of the parking and the amount of time it takes to get into York. I now drive to leeds. £4 per 12 hours right in the middle of a proper city or park at Garforth and pay £2 on a train. I suggest you try it, no gangs of males and females in fancy dress no mass brawls in the streets and a host of listed buildings and architecture to admire.
It's a long way to for leeks though.
[quote][p][bold]Martin true Viking[/bold] wrote: Because of the lack of parking, the cost of the parking and the amount of time it takes to get into York. I now drive to leeds. £4 per 12 hours right in the middle of a proper city or park at Garforth and pay £2 on a train. I suggest you try it, no gangs of males and females in fancy dress no mass brawls in the streets and a host of listed buildings and architecture to admire.[/p][/quote]It's a long way to for leeks though. bolero
  • Score: 0

8:10pm Sat 9 Aug 14

pedalling paul says...

Fat Harry wrote:
Come off it PP, on your trusty bike, you can be at Tanner Row in a couple of minutes.
Ever tried pedalling crossed legged.....?
[quote][p][bold]Fat Harry[/bold] wrote: Come off it PP, on your trusty bike, you can be at Tanner Row in a couple of minutes.[/p][/quote]Ever tried pedalling crossed legged.....? pedalling paul
  • Score: 25

9:11pm Sat 9 Aug 14

Yorkie41 says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Fat Harry wrote:
Come off it PP, on your trusty bike, you can be at Tanner Row in a couple of minutes.
Ever tried pedalling crossed legged.....?
A little awkward on a bike with a cross bar on. ha ha.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fat Harry[/bold] wrote: Come off it PP, on your trusty bike, you can be at Tanner Row in a couple of minutes.[/p][/quote]Ever tried pedalling crossed legged.....?[/p][/quote]A little awkward on a bike with a cross bar on. ha ha. Yorkie41
  • Score: 2

1:22am Sun 10 Aug 14

dweezil says...

So they argued before giving consent. Without, it seems, getting any answers. Still, consent was given. Am I the only one looking at this as another shop for tourists at the expense of locals?????
So they argued before giving consent. Without, it seems, getting any answers. Still, consent was given. Am I the only one looking at this as another shop for tourists at the expense of locals????? dweezil
  • Score: 3

3:56am Sun 10 Aug 14

Magicman! says...

The new facility will have one fully wheelchair accessible toilet but the plans show a night toilet which would not be available wheelchair users.

Cllr Fiona Fitzpatrick criticised that aspect of the scheme, and said it was unfair and unequal to expect wheelchair user to go to the Union Terrace public convenience at night instead.

The councillors might want to check out Union Terrace first before making statements... I tried to open the disabled toilet for a RADAR keyholder a few days ago, after 8pm, and the door wouldn't open... the door wouldn't open because there is a secondary deadbolt which had locked the facility out of use - the use of a secondary lock to close off a RADAR-locked facility is against the code of practice for those who provide public conveniences, as the accessible toilet is already 'locked' because only RADAR keyholders can use it. Anyways, the person concerned couldn't use the toilets there and so had to go off to the Hospital instead for their facilities.


Also as another thought... currently Bootham Bar toilets have gone, the Art Gallery toilets are closed as the gallery is refurbished (not all that long ago since it was last refurbished), and the Museum Gardens no longer have any toilets... who on earth planned a wipeout of toilets all in one go?
[quote] The new facility will have one fully wheelchair accessible toilet but the plans show a night toilet which would not be available wheelchair users. Cllr Fiona Fitzpatrick criticised that aspect of the scheme, and said it was unfair and unequal to expect wheelchair user to go to the Union Terrace public convenience at night instead. [/quote] The councillors might want to check out Union Terrace first before making statements... I tried to open the disabled toilet for a RADAR keyholder a few days ago, after 8pm, and the door wouldn't open... the door wouldn't open because there is a secondary deadbolt which had locked the facility out of use - the use of a secondary lock to close off a RADAR-locked facility is against the code of practice for those who provide public conveniences, as the accessible toilet is already 'locked' because only RADAR keyholders can use it. Anyways, the person concerned couldn't use the toilets there and so had to go off to the Hospital instead for their facilities. Also as another thought... currently Bootham Bar toilets have gone, the Art Gallery toilets are closed as the gallery is refurbished (not all that long ago since it was last refurbished), and the Museum Gardens no longer have any toilets... who on earth planned a wipeout of toilets all in one go? Magicman!
  • Score: 17

11:26am Sun 10 Aug 14

Jack Ham says...

LindaNess wrote:
Why does the council close facilities before the replacements are up and running? Whether it is toilets, care homes or any other facility. It does not seem like joined up thinking.
Simple. It removes even the opportunity of debate and consultation.

What Labour have for with the Elderly Persons Homes is shocking. Closed facilities for our most vulnerable and then spent the money for their replacements elsewhere.

Fortunately even their own auditors have told them they've spent the money twice. Now it's out in the open they will finally be forced to tell us what they plan to do.
[quote][p][bold]LindaNess[/bold] wrote: Why does the council close facilities before the replacements are up and running? Whether it is toilets, care homes or any other facility. It does not seem like joined up thinking.[/p][/quote]Simple. It removes even the opportunity of debate and consultation. What Labour have for with the Elderly Persons Homes is shocking. Closed facilities for our most vulnerable and then spent the money for their replacements elsewhere. Fortunately even their own auditors have told them they've spent the money twice. Now it's out in the open they will finally be forced to tell us what they plan to do. Jack Ham
  • Score: -20

3:28pm Sun 10 Aug 14

m dee says...

Cllr Fiona Fitzpatrick is quiet right why no disabled facility on the night yet open for able bodied,York has many residents and visitors that go in the centre on a evening and require the disabled facility.
Was there not a report a few days ago about excluding and how difficult it was for disabled people seems like a step back in time,could and should be easily put right.
York does not really seem very welcoming with many disabled parking been taken away I note the Green badge scheme for severely disabled has recently been stopped in York,which is a shame as all these people are needed for the local economy to thrive.
Cllr Fiona Fitzpatrick is quiet right why no disabled facility on the night yet open for able bodied,York has many residents and visitors that go in the centre on a evening and require the disabled facility. Was there not a report a few days ago about excluding and how difficult it was for disabled people seems like a step back in time,could and should be easily put right. York does not really seem very welcoming with many disabled parking been taken away I note the Green badge scheme for severely disabled has recently been stopped in York,which is a shame as all these people are needed for the local economy to thrive. m dee
  • Score: 3

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