Discrimination is rife in York, say disabled

City Screen Cinema: Praised for its attitude towards people with disabilities

City Screen Cinema: Praised for its attitude towards people with disabilities

First published in News
Last updated

NEARLY 70 per cent of people with a disability in York have experienced discrimination, a Healthwatch York investigation has found.

Of the respondents to the investigation, 68.2 per cent had experienced discrimination when accessing or trying to access at least one service in York.

People have struggled when trying to access their doctor's surgery and public transport, particularly buses.

Many also said they had faced negative comments from members of the public.

A series of recommendations have been made to services in the city following the investigation.

Emma Hersey, the author of the report, wrote: "At present in York disabled people face discriminatory attitudes from a wide range of sources. This is not acceptable.

"Disabled people deserve to be treated equally. We believe it is in service providers and the general public's interest to change their attitudes towards disabled people. Not only because disabled people deserve a better quality of life but because disability affects everyone."

Disabled people using wheelchairs and their carers reported how they could sometimes not use buses as the designated space was filled with pushchairs which could be folded down and some commented that bus drivers seemed "put out" if they had to lower ramps. A few people said they had fallen over as drivers pulled away before they were seated.

There are also accessibility problems for disabled people in York with limited disabled parking in the city centre and the closing of Davygate to cars.

Worryingly, some people reported individuals banging on their windows and doors at night, making them feel threatened.

The views of mental health patients were also included, with one incident reading: "One individual told us how when visiting a chemists a member of staff wouldn't give them their prescription because they are a mental health service user - the staff member could tell from the medication. The staff member said to the service user, 'I don't want you coming in here'.

"Negative attitudes like this are extremely concerning particularly in light of the current push to get the general public to use pharmacies more as an alternative to GP and hospital services."

York Hospital's A&E department can also be a very difficult experience for disabled people who do not like to be in noisy places to cope with, respondents said.

However, positives were reported, with organisations such as City Screen and Cafe Nero singled out as being considerate.

Some 167 people responded to the Healthwatch report giving feedback via a survey and in meetings.

The report has been sent to City of York Council, North Yorkshire Police, NHS Vale of York Clinical Commissioning Group, York Hospital, NHS England and Leeds and York Partnership NHS Foundation Trust among others.

Comments (31)

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12:30pm Wed 30 Jul 14

wildthing666 says...

Just about everywhere you look there is some discrimination of disabled people. Cyclists are a big problem for me when I cross roads, as it takes me time, they can cover hundreds of meters and turn into the road they just shout look out as they nearly knock you over, a car driver has the curtosy to stop and allow you to continue.
Just about everywhere you look there is some discrimination of disabled people. Cyclists are a big problem for me when I cross roads, as it takes me time, they can cover hundreds of meters and turn into the road they just shout look out as they nearly knock you over, a car driver has the curtosy to stop and allow you to continue. wildthing666
  • Score: 21

12:45pm Wed 30 Jul 14

CaroleBaines says...

I work with many disabled people, they do not expect huge changes to be made to accommodate them, just some courtesy. One of the hardest things to hear about is the bullying and even 'scrounger' comments to people with conditions such as MS. Thanks to various government and media campaigns, the most vulnerable are often stigmatised and it stinks, frankly.
I work with many disabled people, they do not expect huge changes to be made to accommodate them, just some courtesy. One of the hardest things to hear about is the bullying and even 'scrounger' comments to people with conditions such as MS. Thanks to various government and media campaigns, the most vulnerable are often stigmatised and it stinks, frankly. CaroleBaines
  • Score: 31

12:49pm Wed 30 Jul 14

CommonSense!! says...

There is a difference between being discriminated against and finding things more difficult due to your disability which seems to be the crux of this article.
There is a difference between being discriminated against and finding things more difficult due to your disability which seems to be the crux of this article. CommonSense!!
  • Score: -4

12:54pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Stevie D says...

I'm not trying to downplay the results of this survey or to excuse discrimination, and it's awful that disabled people do face such discrimination, but I can't help wondering if the problem is as widespread as this article makes out ... to say that 68.2 per cent had experienced discrimination when accessing or trying to access at least one service doesn't give any indication of whether this is a serious and regular impediment. It would be good to know how many of those people faced problems regularly, or if they were just one-off instances. It would also be interesting to compare the problems people face in York are worse than elsewhere.

It may be that actually 70% is just the tip of the iceberg, and those people are having problems day-in and day-out, and discrimination is far worse in York than other cities ... but it may be the other way round and we're actually doing better here ... from this article, we just don't know!
I'm not trying to downplay the results of this survey or to excuse discrimination, and it's awful that disabled people do face such discrimination, but I can't help wondering if the problem is as widespread as this article makes out ... to say that [bold]68.2 per cent had experienced discrimination when accessing or trying to access at least one service[/bold] doesn't give any indication of whether this is a serious and regular impediment. It would be good to know how many of those people faced problems regularly, or if they were just one-off instances. It would also be interesting to compare the problems people face in York are worse than elsewhere. It may be that actually 70% is just the tip of the iceberg, and those people are having problems day-in and day-out, and discrimination is far worse in York than other cities ... but it may be the other way round and we're actually doing better here ... from this article, we just don't know! Stevie D
  • Score: 18

1:05pm Wed 30 Jul 14

York2000 says...

Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians.
Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians. York2000
  • Score: 14

1:14pm Wed 30 Jul 14

MilkandTwo says...

York2000 wrote:
Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians.
Can you source this quote please?
[quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians.[/p][/quote]Can you source this quote please? MilkandTwo
  • Score: 13

1:30pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Thecynic says...

I can't comment on the percentages quoted in the article. However I have seen first hand on several occasions where someone in a wheelchair has been refused entry to a bus because the area has been full with buggies.

Surely when a situation like that arises one or more of the buggies should be folded down to allow the wheelchair user access.
I can't comment on the percentages quoted in the article. However I have seen first hand on several occasions where someone in a wheelchair has been refused entry to a bus because the area has been full with buggies. Surely when a situation like that arises one or more of the buggies should be folded down to allow the wheelchair user access. Thecynic
  • Score: 33

1:34pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Stevie D says...

Thecynic wrote:
I can't comment on the percentages quoted in the article. However I have seen first hand on several occasions where someone in a wheelchair has been refused entry to a bus because the area has been full with buggies.

Surely when a situation like that arises one or more of the buggies should be folded down to allow the wheelchair user access.
Yes, they should be ... but bus drivers can't force parents to fold up a buggy, and so if the parent refuses to comply, the bus driver has no option but to not allow the wheelchair on. Unfortunately, that comes down to the willingness of individuals to help disabled people, rather than being systemic discrimination.

It would be nice to think that bus companies might use CCTV footage of any passengers who refused to fold their buggy when requested, and either ban them from taking a buggy on board (unfolded) in the future, or even ban them outright for six months.
[quote][p][bold]Thecynic[/bold] wrote: I can't comment on the percentages quoted in the article. However I have seen first hand on several occasions where someone in a wheelchair has been refused entry to a bus because the area has been full with buggies. Surely when a situation like that arises one or more of the buggies should be folded down to allow the wheelchair user access.[/p][/quote]Yes, they should be ... but bus drivers can't force parents to fold up a buggy, and so if the parent refuses to comply, the bus driver has no option but to not allow the wheelchair on. Unfortunately, that comes down to the willingness of individuals to help disabled people, rather than being systemic discrimination. It would be nice to think that bus companies might use CCTV footage of any passengers who refused to fold their buggy when requested, and either ban them from taking a buggy on board (unfolded) in the future, or even ban them outright for six months. Stevie D
  • Score: 17

2:36pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Zetkin says...

MilkandTwo wrote:
York2000 wrote: Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians.
Can you source this quote please?
I've no idea if the quote is genuine, but it certainly is an accurate description of their attitide to disabled people.

And, as CaroleBaines points out their campaign (ably assisted by sections of the media) to stigmatise and scapegoat disabled people results in bullying and discrimination.

Just one example: I witnessed a disabled person presenting his card when paying for a service, only to be asked by a sneering customer service assistant, "oh, and what's wrong with you, then?"

The disabled person's response probably wouldn't get past the Press filters; suffice it to say he got a round of applause from other customers.
[quote][p][bold]MilkandTwo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians.[/p][/quote]Can you source this quote please?[/p][/quote]I've no idea if the quote is genuine, but it certainly is an accurate description of their attitide to disabled people. And, as CaroleBaines points out their campaign (ably assisted by sections of the media) to stigmatise and scapegoat disabled people results in bullying and discrimination. Just one example: I witnessed a disabled person presenting his card when paying for a service, only to be asked by a sneering customer service assistant, "oh, and what's wrong with you, then?" The disabled person's response probably wouldn't get past the Press filters; suffice it to say he got a round of applause from other customers. Zetkin
  • Score: 15

2:49pm Wed 30 Jul 14

MilkandTwo says...

Zetkin wrote:
MilkandTwo wrote:
York2000 wrote: Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians.
Can you source this quote please?
I've no idea if the quote is genuine, but it certainly is an accurate description of their attitide to disabled people.

And, as CaroleBaines points out their campaign (ably assisted by sections of the media) to stigmatise and scapegoat disabled people results in bullying and discrimination.

Just one example: I witnessed a disabled person presenting his card when paying for a service, only to be asked by a sneering customer service assistant, "oh, and what's wrong with you, then?"

The disabled person's response probably wouldn't get past the Press filters; suffice it to say he got a round of applause from other customers.
A description is fair enough but the poster put it in quotes, meaning that they both actually said it.

I agree with a lot in this article and I don't vote Tory but if you are having a discussion you have to be fair about it. You can't put words in people's mouths just because you disagree with them
[quote][p][bold]Zetkin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MilkandTwo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians.[/p][/quote]Can you source this quote please?[/p][/quote]I've no idea if the quote is genuine, but it certainly is an accurate description of their attitide to disabled people. And, as CaroleBaines points out their campaign (ably assisted by sections of the media) to stigmatise and scapegoat disabled people results in bullying and discrimination. Just one example: I witnessed a disabled person presenting his card when paying for a service, only to be asked by a sneering customer service assistant, "oh, and what's wrong with you, then?" The disabled person's response probably wouldn't get past the Press filters; suffice it to say he got a round of applause from other customers.[/p][/quote]A description is fair enough but the poster put it in quotes, meaning that they both actually said it. I agree with a lot in this article and I don't vote Tory but if you are having a discussion you have to be fair about it. You can't put words in people's mouths just because you disagree with them MilkandTwo
  • Score: 20

3:58pm Wed 30 Jul 14

gerry1962 says...

A) 'The wheelchair' has actually got a person in it, it doesn't want to get on a bus by itself
B) YP - all through the article you use the phrase 'disabled people' yet underneath the picture at the top 'the disabled' - it is an old-fashioned and derogatory phrase - get rid!
C) As a wheelchair user, I see this happening in a lot of situations. I've actually been asked by a bus driver to get on a bus in order, I believe, to make a parent move a buggy. They SHOULD be bold enough to do it themselves, but they don't.
A) 'The wheelchair' has actually got a person in it, it doesn't want to get on a bus by itself B) YP - all through the article you use the phrase 'disabled people' yet underneath the picture at the top 'the disabled' - it is an old-fashioned and derogatory phrase - get rid! C) As a wheelchair user, I see this happening in a lot of situations. I've actually been asked by a bus driver to get on a bus in order, I believe, to make a parent move a buggy. They SHOULD be bold enough to do it themselves, but they don't. gerry1962
  • Score: 19

4:09pm Wed 30 Jul 14

big boy york says...

i must say this is quite true of york, my sons 4 has cerebral palsy, he uses a walker & wheelchair for longer trips. to most people ( mainly old people ) he's invisible, they walk into him as though he's not there, many a time ive had to bite my tongue we recently visited harrogate for the day & they couldnt be more different went into clarks to get his feet measured the kids dept was upstairs n no lift but there they brought the kids dept to him didnt complain about going up n down stairs to find shoes for him in york there would have been tuts n whinging
i must say this is quite true of york, my sons 4 has cerebral palsy, he uses a walker & wheelchair for longer trips. to most people ( mainly old people ) he's invisible, they walk into him as though he's not there, many a time ive had to bite my tongue we recently visited harrogate for the day & they couldnt be more different went into clarks to get his feet measured the kids dept was upstairs n no lift but there they brought the kids dept to him didnt complain about going up n down stairs to find shoes for him in york there would have been tuts n whinging big boy york
  • Score: 18

4:48pm Wed 30 Jul 14

rattydriver says...

gerry1962 wrote:
A) 'The wheelchair' has actually got a person in it, it doesn't want to get on a bus by itself
B) YP - all through the article you use the phrase 'disabled people' yet underneath the picture at the top 'the disabled' - it is an old-fashioned and derogatory phrase - get rid!
C) As a wheelchair user, I see this happening in a lot of situations. I've actually been asked by a bus driver to get on a bus in order, I believe, to make a parent move a buggy. They SHOULD be bold enough to do it themselves, but they don't.
As a driver we are not allowed to make them! Believe me I would, it's a no win situation and one I personally hate to be in!
[quote][p][bold]gerry1962[/bold] wrote: A) 'The wheelchair' has actually got a person in it, it doesn't want to get on a bus by itself B) YP - all through the article you use the phrase 'disabled people' yet underneath the picture at the top 'the disabled' - it is an old-fashioned and derogatory phrase - get rid! C) As a wheelchair user, I see this happening in a lot of situations. I've actually been asked by a bus driver to get on a bus in order, I believe, to make a parent move a buggy. They SHOULD be bold enough to do it themselves, but they don't.[/p][/quote]As a driver we are not allowed to make them! Believe me I would, it's a no win situation and one I personally hate to be in! rattydriver
  • Score: 22

5:19pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Meirion M says...

Disability is rife in York.
Go on Parliament Street any day and there is discrimination against the disabled people, especially by the tourists, and drivers, especially the delivery van drivers, who rush and brush past disabled people day in, day out.
York Council are one the biggest culprits, see the Lendal Bridge debacle when disabled drivers were fined for driving on the bridge after 10.30 a.m. but taxi drivers and bus drivers had a dispensation agains fines.
Disability is rife in York. Go on Parliament Street any day and there is discrimination against the disabled people, especially by the tourists, and drivers, especially the delivery van drivers, who rush and brush past disabled people day in, day out. York Council are one the biggest culprits, see the Lendal Bridge debacle when disabled drivers were fined for driving on the bridge after 10.30 a.m. but taxi drivers and bus drivers had a dispensation agains fines. Meirion M
  • Score: -2

7:55pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Digeorge says...

Disability is rife in York.

Not to mention trying to get a job with a disability is considerably harder having to tick a box, if the box hadn't been ticked, I would have got a job a very long time ago. Nought wrong with the skill set or the experience.
Disability is rife in York. Not to mention trying to get a job with a disability is considerably harder having to tick a box, if the box hadn't been ticked, I would have got a job a very long time ago. Nought wrong with the skill set or the experience. Digeorge
  • Score: 8

11:30pm Wed 30 Jul 14

quandaryqueen says...

The 'kneeling bus' is one of the best inventions since sliced bread for those with limited mobility ... and having the addition of a ramp for ease of access for wheelchair users is another added bonus.
If a young, fit, strong and able-bodied parent wants to use the bus with a buggy loaded with tots, shopping bags et-al they should be prepared to collapse the buggy and hold their child on their knees along with their shopping bags etc. etc. and if they want to complain and moan and groan about it, then they should not have got on the bus in the first place, they're young enough, strong enough and fit enough to ruddy-well walk from the shops to their homes, which could actually have several knock on advantageous effects...
1) It would save them the cost of their bus fare
2) It would help smaller local retailers
3) It could help reduce the 'obesity epidemic' rife in todays younger population.
And before they all want to jump down my throat....I am not speaking out of lack of experience. I brought my tots up in the years before front loading buses were invented, I never owned my own car, and when I needed to do my weekly shop, I had to walk the mile and a half to the village, (Acomb) do my shopping, then walk the mile and a half back home, whatever the weather, because buses did not have the facilities to accommodate prams, and if we wanted to get on with pushchairs we had no other choice than to fold them down and store them in the 'luggage compartment' under the stair well
The 'kneeling bus' is one of the best inventions since sliced bread for those with limited mobility ... and having the addition of a ramp for ease of access for wheelchair users is another added bonus. If a young, fit, strong and able-bodied parent wants to use the bus with a buggy loaded with tots, shopping bags et-al they should be prepared to collapse the buggy and hold their child on their knees along with their shopping bags etc. etc. and if they want to complain and moan and groan about it, then they should not have got on the bus in the first place, they're young enough, strong enough and fit enough to ruddy-well walk from the shops to their homes, which could actually have several knock on advantageous effects... 1) It would save them the cost of their bus fare 2) It would help smaller local retailers 3) It could help reduce the 'obesity epidemic' rife in todays younger population. And before they all want to jump down my throat....I am not speaking out of lack of experience. I brought my tots up in the years before front loading buses were invented, I never owned my own car, and when I needed to do my weekly shop, I had to walk the mile and a half to the village, (Acomb) do my shopping, then walk the mile and a half back home, whatever the weather, because buses did not have the facilities to accommodate prams, and if we wanted to get on with pushchairs we had no other choice than to fold them down and store them in the 'luggage compartment' under the stair well quandaryqueen
  • Score: 16

11:32pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Anotherangryvoice says...

Stevie D wrote:
Thecynic wrote:
I can't comment on the percentages quoted in the article. However I have seen first hand on several occasions where someone in a wheelchair has been refused entry to a bus because the area has been full with buggies.

Surely when a situation like that arises one or more of the buggies should be folded down to allow the wheelchair user access.
Yes, they should be ... but bus drivers can't force parents to fold up a buggy, and so if the parent refuses to comply, the bus driver has no option but to not allow the wheelchair on. Unfortunately, that comes down to the willingness of individuals to help disabled people, rather than being systemic discrimination.

It would be nice to think that bus companies might use CCTV footage of any passengers who refused to fold their buggy when requested, and either ban them from taking a buggy on board (unfolded) in the future, or even ban them outright for six months.
This all seems to stem from the view that the buggy would be a compact folding stroller that is designed for the older infant. What about the younger ones in prams/pushchairs that don't fold to anything resembling a small, manageable size? They don't fit in the luggage space, they require two hands to fold. Who's holding the baby as they do this?! The baby who can't lift their head or sit or stand or walk or have the balance to be left on a chair?

Don't get me wrong, there are parents who hog the space on the bus with strollers containing a fully mobile child rather than a tot who are quite clearly just being defiant and discriminative. But it's a sensitive issue on both sides, one could argue that a baby too is disabled given their complete lack of self sufficiency and who knows how the mother's (if that is who the infant is travelling with) mobility has been effect postpartum?

Often the only option to make room for the wheelchair user is for the parent to alight the bus and wait for the next one. This doesn't happen for seated passengers when the vehicle is full and approaching a busy stop. Why must the two most vulnerable sets of passengers be forced to have only one space which they cannot use together?

Maybe the problem on transport is not the passengers, but the operators themselves who cannot provide adequate space to suit passenger needs.
[quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thecynic[/bold] wrote: I can't comment on the percentages quoted in the article. However I have seen first hand on several occasions where someone in a wheelchair has been refused entry to a bus because the area has been full with buggies. Surely when a situation like that arises one or more of the buggies should be folded down to allow the wheelchair user access.[/p][/quote]Yes, they should be ... but bus drivers can't force parents to fold up a buggy, and so if the parent refuses to comply, the bus driver has no option but to not allow the wheelchair on. Unfortunately, that comes down to the willingness of individuals to help disabled people, rather than being systemic discrimination. It would be nice to think that bus companies might use CCTV footage of any passengers who refused to fold their buggy when requested, and either ban them from taking a buggy on board (unfolded) in the future, or even ban them outright for six months.[/p][/quote]This all seems to stem from the view that the buggy would be a compact folding stroller that is designed for the older infant. What about the younger ones in prams/pushchairs that don't fold to anything resembling a small, manageable size? They don't fit in the luggage space, they require two hands to fold. Who's holding the baby as they do this?! The baby who can't lift their head or sit or stand or walk or have the balance to be left on a chair? Don't get me wrong, there are parents who hog the space on the bus with strollers containing a fully mobile child rather than a tot who are quite clearly just being defiant and discriminative. But it's a sensitive issue on both sides, one could argue that a baby too is disabled given their complete lack of self sufficiency and who knows how the mother's (if that is who the infant is travelling with) mobility has been effect postpartum? Often the only option to make room for the wheelchair user is for the parent to alight the bus and wait for the next one. This doesn't happen for seated passengers when the vehicle is full and approaching a busy stop. Why must the two most vulnerable sets of passengers be forced to have only one space which they cannot use together? Maybe the problem on transport is not the passengers, but the operators themselves who cannot provide adequate space to suit passenger needs. Anotherangryvoice
  • Score: 5

1:10am Thu 31 Jul 14

jmumof3 says...

With mental health issues I don't expect or want special treatment,but I would like not to be laughed at in the street for looking different. I have experienced discrimination in terms of negative attitude from certain bodies of authority when they learn my diagnosis. I'm an extremely gentle and compassionate person. People with invisible disabilities also get judged by some. I find crossing roads extremely confusing due to medication but generally, drivers have been good. Cyclists don't seem to be as aware that pedestrians can feel overwhelmed and confused by busy roads. Drivers notice I am frightened or confused at those times. Cyclists come straight at you.
With mental health issues I don't expect or want special treatment,but I would like not to be laughed at in the street for looking different. I have experienced discrimination in terms of negative attitude from certain bodies of authority when they learn my diagnosis. I'm an extremely gentle and compassionate person. People with invisible disabilities also get judged by some. I find crossing roads extremely confusing due to medication but generally, drivers have been good. Cyclists don't seem to be as aware that pedestrians can feel overwhelmed and confused by busy roads. Drivers notice I am frightened or confused at those times. Cyclists come straight at you. jmumof3
  • Score: 8

1:22am Thu 31 Jul 14

Magicman! says...

Disabled people using wheelchairs and their carers reported how they could sometimes not use buses as the designated space was filled with pushchairs which could be folded down
... or the cases where a person in a wheelchair has been in the designated space, and some woman with a buggy, two kids (one probably named Britney), and massive earrings who is told by the driver the buggy has to be folded, and she then protests and requests the wheelchair person get off the bus so she can travel. Happens on trains too - and not just requesting people in wheelchairs get off, on a crowded peak time commuter train, some have been known for requesting 10 or so standing passengers get off so her and her kids have room to board.
[quote]Disabled people using wheelchairs and their carers reported how they could sometimes not use buses as the designated space was filled with pushchairs which could be folded down[/quote]... or the cases where a person in a wheelchair has been in the designated space, and some woman with a buggy, two kids (one probably named Britney), and massive earrings who is told by the driver the buggy has to be folded, and she then protests and requests the wheelchair person get off the bus so she can travel. Happens on trains too - and not just requesting people in wheelchairs get off, on a crowded peak time commuter train, some have been known for requesting 10 or so standing passengers get off so her and her kids have room to board. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

1:24am Thu 31 Jul 14

Magicman! says...

CaroleBaines wrote:
I work with many disabled people, they do not expect huge changes to be made to accommodate them, just some courtesy. One of the hardest things to hear about is the bullying and even 'scrounger' comments to people with conditions such as MS. Thanks to various government and media campaigns, the most vulnerable are often stigmatised and it stinks, frankly.
Indeed. Current evidence suggests to me that the current government is trying to create an aryan race idealology, whereby those seen as "weak" are removed, these being the poor, the old, and the disabled.
[quote][p][bold]CaroleBaines[/bold] wrote: I work with many disabled people, they do not expect huge changes to be made to accommodate them, just some courtesy. One of the hardest things to hear about is the bullying and even 'scrounger' comments to people with conditions such as MS. Thanks to various government and media campaigns, the most vulnerable are often stigmatised and it stinks, frankly.[/p][/quote]Indeed. Current evidence suggests to me that the current government is trying to create an aryan race idealology, whereby those seen as "weak" are removed, these being the poor, the old, and the disabled. Magicman!
  • Score: 5

1:28am Thu 31 Jul 14

Magicman! says...

York2000 wrote:
Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians.
And yet in the cabinet reshuffle, Iain Duncan Smith kept his job... despite wasting £40MILLION pounds on a computer system which is still broken and the aim of which is to take people's benefits away. No wonder David Cameron likes him, both are as incompetant and arrogant as each other. The whole point of a cabinet reshuffle is to get rid of the incompetant buffoons who can't do their job, and yet IDS is still there, what the hell?!
[quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians.[/p][/quote]And yet in the cabinet reshuffle, Iain Duncan Smith kept his job... despite wasting £40MILLION pounds on a computer system which is still broken and the aim of which is to take people's benefits away. No wonder David Cameron likes him, both are as incompetant and arrogant as each other. The whole point of a cabinet reshuffle is to get rid of the incompetant buffoons who can't do their job, and yet IDS is still there, what the hell?! Magicman!
  • Score: 3

1:31am Thu 31 Jul 14

Magicman! says...

Stevie D wrote:
Thecynic wrote:
I can't comment on the percentages quoted in the article. However I have seen first hand on several occasions where someone in a wheelchair has been refused entry to a bus because the area has been full with buggies.

Surely when a situation like that arises one or more of the buggies should be folded down to allow the wheelchair user access.
Yes, they should be ... but bus drivers can't force parents to fold up a buggy, and so if the parent refuses to comply, the bus driver has no option but to not allow the wheelchair on. Unfortunately, that comes down to the willingness of individuals to help disabled people, rather than being systemic discrimination.

It would be nice to think that bus companies might use CCTV footage of any passengers who refused to fold their buggy when requested, and either ban them from taking a buggy on board (unfolded) in the future, or even ban them outright for six months.
Shame some of the step-entrance buses can't be adapted to have a 'plug type' sliding door on the side just after the first wheel, which opens and a wheelchair ramp extends out straight into the wheelchair area - and that the door is ONLY opened for a passenger in a wheelchair, whereas beside the normal entrance there is a sticker stating that buggies have to be folded up.... mix those buses up with fully low floor buses on the same routes, and eventually those with buggies would see roll-on access as a priveledge and not a god-given right.
[quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thecynic[/bold] wrote: I can't comment on the percentages quoted in the article. However I have seen first hand on several occasions where someone in a wheelchair has been refused entry to a bus because the area has been full with buggies. Surely when a situation like that arises one or more of the buggies should be folded down to allow the wheelchair user access.[/p][/quote]Yes, they should be ... but bus drivers can't force parents to fold up a buggy, and so if the parent refuses to comply, the bus driver has no option but to not allow the wheelchair on. Unfortunately, that comes down to the willingness of individuals to help disabled people, rather than being systemic discrimination. It would be nice to think that bus companies might use CCTV footage of any passengers who refused to fold their buggy when requested, and either ban them from taking a buggy on board (unfolded) in the future, or even ban them outright for six months.[/p][/quote]Shame some of the step-entrance buses can't be adapted to have a 'plug type' sliding door on the side just after the first wheel, which opens and a wheelchair ramp extends out straight into the wheelchair area - and that the door is ONLY opened for a passenger in a wheelchair, whereas beside the normal entrance there is a sticker stating that buggies have to be folded up.... mix those buses up with fully low floor buses on the same routes, and eventually those with buggies would see roll-on access as a priveledge and not a god-given right. Magicman!
  • Score: 4

1:34am Thu 31 Jul 14

Magicman! says...

gerry1962 wrote:
A) 'The wheelchair' has actually got a person in it, it doesn't want to get on a bus by itself
B) YP - all through the article you use the phrase 'disabled people' yet underneath the picture at the top 'the disabled' - it is an old-fashioned and derogatory phrase - get rid!
C) As a wheelchair user, I see this happening in a lot of situations. I've actually been asked by a bus driver to get on a bus in order, I believe, to make a parent move a buggy. They SHOULD be bold enough to do it themselves, but they don't.
If I was driving a bus and a parent with a buggy wouldn't move for a wheelchair passenger then the stance would be simple: the bus doesn't move an inch until the buggy is moved so the person in the wheelchair can travel in the designated area. Sure, there'd be a couple of complaints from those who just wanted to get to the destination, and not seeing the bigger picture, but in such circumstances you'd always get somebody complaining.
[quote][p][bold]gerry1962[/bold] wrote: A) 'The wheelchair' has actually got a person in it, it doesn't want to get on a bus by itself B) YP - all through the article you use the phrase 'disabled people' yet underneath the picture at the top 'the disabled' - it is an old-fashioned and derogatory phrase - get rid! C) As a wheelchair user, I see this happening in a lot of situations. I've actually been asked by a bus driver to get on a bus in order, I believe, to make a parent move a buggy. They SHOULD be bold enough to do it themselves, but they don't.[/p][/quote]If I was driving a bus and a parent with a buggy wouldn't move for a wheelchair passenger then the stance would be simple: the bus doesn't move an inch until the buggy is moved so the person in the wheelchair can travel in the designated area. Sure, there'd be a couple of complaints from those who just wanted to get to the destination, and not seeing the bigger picture, but in such circumstances you'd always get somebody complaining. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

1:37am Thu 31 Jul 14

Magicman! says...

Digeorge wrote:
Disability is rife in York.

Not to mention trying to get a job with a disability is considerably harder having to tick a box, if the box hadn't been ticked, I would have got a job a very long time ago. Nought wrong with the skill set or the experience.
Oh of course... you go for a job and say you're disabled and you'll get an interview as employers are legally bound to interview a disabled person - but when it comes to being given the position, you'll be told that "a more suitable candidate was found":- they probably won't have as much skill or experience, but somehow not being disabled means the other person is seen as more suited to the role.
[quote][p][bold]Digeorge[/bold] wrote: Disability is rife in York. Not to mention trying to get a job with a disability is considerably harder having to tick a box, if the box hadn't been ticked, I would have got a job a very long time ago. Nought wrong with the skill set or the experience.[/p][/quote]Oh of course... you go for a job and say you're disabled and you'll get an interview as employers are legally bound to interview a disabled person - but when it comes to being given the position, you'll be told that "a more suitable candidate was found":- they probably won't have as much skill or experience, but somehow not being disabled means the other person is seen as more suited to the role. Magicman!
  • Score: 5

1:41am Thu 31 Jul 14

Magicman! says...

quandaryqueen wrote:
The 'kneeling bus' is one of the best inventions since sliced bread for those with limited mobility ... and having the addition of a ramp for ease of access for wheelchair users is another added bonus.
If a young, fit, strong and able-bodied parent wants to use the bus with a buggy loaded with tots, shopping bags et-al they should be prepared to collapse the buggy and hold their child on their knees along with their shopping bags etc. etc. and if they want to complain and moan and groan about it, then they should not have got on the bus in the first place, they're young enough, strong enough and fit enough to ruddy-well walk from the shops to their homes, which could actually have several knock on advantageous effects...
1) It would save them the cost of their bus fare
2) It would help smaller local retailers
3) It could help reduce the 'obesity epidemic' rife in todays younger population.
And before they all want to jump down my throat....I am not speaking out of lack of experience. I brought my tots up in the years before front loading buses were invented, I never owned my own car, and when I needed to do my weekly shop, I had to walk the mile and a half to the village, (Acomb) do my shopping, then walk the mile and a half back home, whatever the weather, because buses did not have the facilities to accommodate prams, and if we wanted to get on with pushchairs we had no other choice than to fold them down and store them in the 'luggage compartment' under the stair well
I was brought up in the days of step entrance buses... lived in acomb at the time, and a trip to the city meant going on the 4, which at the time would have been an 'A' reg double decker or older - no ramp, no buggy pen, not even a particularly large luggage area. The simple way of getting around it was to carry groceries that could be carried by hand as if the buggy was not there - not relying on the buggy as if it's a shopping trolley.
[quote][p][bold]quandaryqueen[/bold] wrote: The 'kneeling bus' is one of the best inventions since sliced bread for those with limited mobility ... and having the addition of a ramp for ease of access for wheelchair users is another added bonus. If a young, fit, strong and able-bodied parent wants to use the bus with a buggy loaded with tots, shopping bags et-al they should be prepared to collapse the buggy and hold their child on their knees along with their shopping bags etc. etc. and if they want to complain and moan and groan about it, then they should not have got on the bus in the first place, they're young enough, strong enough and fit enough to ruddy-well walk from the shops to their homes, which could actually have several knock on advantageous effects... 1) It would save them the cost of their bus fare 2) It would help smaller local retailers 3) It could help reduce the 'obesity epidemic' rife in todays younger population. And before they all want to jump down my throat....I am not speaking out of lack of experience. I brought my tots up in the years before front loading buses were invented, I never owned my own car, and when I needed to do my weekly shop, I had to walk the mile and a half to the village, (Acomb) do my shopping, then walk the mile and a half back home, whatever the weather, because buses did not have the facilities to accommodate prams, and if we wanted to get on with pushchairs we had no other choice than to fold them down and store them in the 'luggage compartment' under the stair well[/p][/quote]I was brought up in the days of step entrance buses... lived in acomb at the time, and a trip to the city meant going on the 4, which at the time would have been an 'A' reg double decker or older - no ramp, no buggy pen, not even a particularly large luggage area. The simple way of getting around it was to carry groceries that could be carried by hand as if the buggy was not there - not relying on the buggy as if it's a shopping trolley. Magicman!
  • Score: 5

1:53am Thu 31 Jul 14

Magicman! says...

Anotherangryvoice wrote:
Stevie D wrote:
Thecynic wrote:
I can't comment on the percentages quoted in the article. However I have seen first hand on several occasions where someone in a wheelchair has been refused entry to a bus because the area has been full with buggies.

Surely when a situation like that arises one or more of the buggies should be folded down to allow the wheelchair user access.
Yes, they should be ... but bus drivers can't force parents to fold up a buggy, and so if the parent refuses to comply, the bus driver has no option but to not allow the wheelchair on. Unfortunately, that comes down to the willingness of individuals to help disabled people, rather than being systemic discrimination.

It would be nice to think that bus companies might use CCTV footage of any passengers who refused to fold their buggy when requested, and either ban them from taking a buggy on board (unfolded) in the future, or even ban them outright for six months.
This all seems to stem from the view that the buggy would be a compact folding stroller that is designed for the older infant. What about the younger ones in prams/pushchairs that don't fold to anything resembling a small, manageable size? They don't fit in the luggage space, they require two hands to fold. Who's holding the baby as they do this?! The baby who can't lift their head or sit or stand or walk or have the balance to be left on a chair?

Don't get me wrong, there are parents who hog the space on the bus with strollers containing a fully mobile child rather than a tot who are quite clearly just being defiant and discriminative. But it's a sensitive issue on both sides, one could argue that a baby too is disabled given their complete lack of self sufficiency and who knows how the mother's (if that is who the infant is travelling with) mobility has been effect postpartum?

Often the only option to make room for the wheelchair user is for the parent to alight the bus and wait for the next one. This doesn't happen for seated passengers when the vehicle is full and approaching a busy stop. Why must the two most vulnerable sets of passengers be forced to have only one space which they cannot use together?

Maybe the problem on transport is not the passengers, but the operators themselves who cannot provide adequate space to suit passenger needs.
In the situation you describe, the priority would be given firstly to the wheelchair passenger, then to the parent who has a newborn (or similar) that cannot be safely conveyed outside of the pram, with a foldable buggy taking up the 3rd space likely having to be folded.

providing adequate space is always going to be an issue now. Stephensons have a J reg bus that goes around York and is still step-entrance (no ramp or wheelchair/buggy space) - if you step on that bus and have a look at how much space for regular passengers there is on that, then get off and go on one of the low floor single deckers that First or Transdev use (a Unibus single decker would be a suitable comparison) you will notice that the modern bus has lost about 1/3 of its seating compared to the older ancestor in order to make room *primarily* for passengers in wheelchairs... it is a decent balance now, and to lose more seating on a bus wouldn't really make much sense. The only way to get a big wheelchair and buggy area whilst not reducing seating for able-bodied passengers would be to get a longer bus - on a route such as the 5 that would mean bendy buses, and on double decker operated routes there'd need to be a bendy double decker built, and then that goes into all manner of issues.
The other option is 'more buses', but that only works if there's enough overall passengers to merit the higher outlay in paying for vehicles, fuel, maintenance, and wages - doubling the frequency of a bus route just because a parent with a buggy doesn't want to give priority to a person in a wheelchair doesn't make economical sense.

the only urban public transport vehicle that seems to have enough room for wheelchairs and buggies is the modern tram... perhaps York needs some of these!
[quote][p][bold]Anotherangryvoice[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thecynic[/bold] wrote: I can't comment on the percentages quoted in the article. However I have seen first hand on several occasions where someone in a wheelchair has been refused entry to a bus because the area has been full with buggies. Surely when a situation like that arises one or more of the buggies should be folded down to allow the wheelchair user access.[/p][/quote]Yes, they should be ... but bus drivers can't force parents to fold up a buggy, and so if the parent refuses to comply, the bus driver has no option but to not allow the wheelchair on. Unfortunately, that comes down to the willingness of individuals to help disabled people, rather than being systemic discrimination. It would be nice to think that bus companies might use CCTV footage of any passengers who refused to fold their buggy when requested, and either ban them from taking a buggy on board (unfolded) in the future, or even ban them outright for six months.[/p][/quote]This all seems to stem from the view that the buggy would be a compact folding stroller that is designed for the older infant. What about the younger ones in prams/pushchairs that don't fold to anything resembling a small, manageable size? They don't fit in the luggage space, they require two hands to fold. Who's holding the baby as they do this?! The baby who can't lift their head or sit or stand or walk or have the balance to be left on a chair? Don't get me wrong, there are parents who hog the space on the bus with strollers containing a fully mobile child rather than a tot who are quite clearly just being defiant and discriminative. But it's a sensitive issue on both sides, one could argue that a baby too is disabled given their complete lack of self sufficiency and who knows how the mother's (if that is who the infant is travelling with) mobility has been effect postpartum? Often the only option to make room for the wheelchair user is for the parent to alight the bus and wait for the next one. This doesn't happen for seated passengers when the vehicle is full and approaching a busy stop. Why must the two most vulnerable sets of passengers be forced to have only one space which they cannot use together? Maybe the problem on transport is not the passengers, but the operators themselves who cannot provide adequate space to suit passenger needs.[/p][/quote]In the situation you describe, the priority would be given firstly to the wheelchair passenger, then to the parent who has a newborn (or similar) that cannot be safely conveyed outside of the pram, with a foldable buggy taking up the 3rd space likely having to be folded. providing adequate space is always going to be an issue now. Stephensons have a J reg bus that goes around York and is still step-entrance (no ramp or wheelchair/buggy space) - if you step on that bus and have a look at how much space for regular passengers there is on that, then get off and go on one of the low floor single deckers that First or Transdev use (a Unibus single decker would be a suitable comparison) you will notice that the modern bus has lost about 1/3 of its seating compared to the older ancestor in order to make room *primarily* for passengers in wheelchairs... it is a decent balance now, and to lose more seating on a bus wouldn't really make much sense. The only way to get a big wheelchair and buggy area whilst not reducing seating for able-bodied passengers would be to get a longer bus - on a route such as the 5 that would mean bendy buses, and on double decker operated routes there'd need to be a bendy double decker built, and then that goes into all manner of issues. The other option is 'more buses', but that only works if there's enough overall passengers to merit the higher outlay in paying for vehicles, fuel, maintenance, and wages - doubling the frequency of a bus route just because a parent with a buggy doesn't want to give priority to a person in a wheelchair doesn't make economical sense. the only urban public transport vehicle that seems to have enough room for wheelchairs and buggies is the modern tram... perhaps York needs some of these! Magicman!
  • Score: 4

1:58am Thu 31 Jul 14

Magicman! says...

The council also doesn't help people with disabilities... think about the Minster Piazza for example. The surface for the cycle lane should be a contrasting colour to the rest of the area, so those with sight impairment can see the difference; and the border between the 'pavement' area and the cycle lane should be marked with a line of tactile paving slabs extending the full width of the cycle lane; ideally too there should be eye-level markers to show the route of the cycle lane, such as 'manchester' type bollards on the border of the cycle lane on both sides for the full length. The council has failed to provide any of this, and by not bothering to do so have opened themselves up to compensation claims as and when a blind or particlly sighted person steps out at the wrong time and is knocked over by a cyclist and both sustain injuries.

Kings Square is a *little* better, in that some blocks of a contrasting colour have been used to mark the roadway, in addition to tactile paving, but the markings do need to be better.
The council also doesn't help people with disabilities... think about the Minster Piazza for example. The surface for the cycle lane should be a contrasting colour to the rest of the area, so those with sight impairment can see the difference; and the border between the 'pavement' area and the cycle lane should be marked with a line of tactile paving slabs extending the full width of the cycle lane; ideally too there should be eye-level markers to show the route of the cycle lane, such as 'manchester' type bollards on the border of the cycle lane on both sides for the full length. The council has failed to provide any of this, and by not bothering to do so have opened themselves up to compensation claims as and when a blind or particlly sighted person steps out at the wrong time and is knocked over by a cyclist and both sustain injuries. Kings Square is a *little* better, in that some blocks of a contrasting colour have been used to mark the roadway, in addition to tactile paving, but the markings do need to be better. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

7:12am Thu 31 Jul 14

rat scabies says...

Some 167 people responded to the Healthwatch report giving feedback via a survey and in meetings.

NEARLY 70 per cent of people with a disability in York have experienced discrimination, a Healthwatch York investigation has found.

Of the respondents to the investigation, 68.2 per cent had experienced discrimination when accessing or trying to access at least one service in York.

So, is that 70% of 167 people? or 70% 0f disabled people?

Or is this just your moaning brigade who will moan about anything? I saw a guy in a small mobility scooter barging his way around Tesco on Clifton Moor, on leaving the shop , he went to his Volvo, got out of the scooter, actually picked it up and placed it in the rear! Seems to be a lot more disabled people around York in these scooters driving around in Volvo's and 4x4's whose only disability seems to be being overweight.
Some 167 people responded to the Healthwatch report giving feedback via a survey and in meetings. NEARLY 70 per cent of people with a disability in York have experienced discrimination, a Healthwatch York investigation has found. Of the respondents to the investigation, 68.2 per cent had experienced discrimination when accessing or trying to access at least one service in York. So, is that 70% of 167 people? or 70% 0f disabled people? Or is this just your moaning brigade who will moan about anything? I saw a guy in a small mobility scooter barging his way around Tesco on Clifton Moor, on leaving the shop , he went to his Volvo, got out of the scooter, actually picked it up and placed it in the rear! Seems to be a lot more disabled people around York in these scooters driving around in Volvo's and 4x4's whose only disability seems to be being overweight. rat scabies
  • Score: 8

7:20am Thu 31 Jul 14

rat scabies says...

York2000 wrote:
Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians.
Nonsense! You are a Labour councillor spreading your Labour lies as per usual!
[quote][p][bold]York2000[/bold] wrote: Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey have labelled the disabled as a 'problem for the taxpayer.' Disgraceful politicians.[/p][/quote]Nonsense! You are a Labour councillor spreading your Labour lies as per usual! rat scabies
  • Score: -7

9:54am Thu 31 Jul 14

SheWhoDoes says...

Not all parents are villains! Some prams/pushchairs (as opposed to strollers) are still very large when folded down so there would be no room to store them on the bus other than in the wheelchair/buggy area anyway. Also, in the case of babies (as opposed to toddlers) they are far, far safer strapped into the frame of a pushchair in the event of an accident than being held in the parent’s arms. So please do not tar all parents who use the bus with a pram/pushchair with the same “rude, selfish, chav” brush. Parents with buggies are entitled to use the bus too and very rarely would they need to fold their pushchair down on a journey to allow space for a wheelchair. Indeed I have been using the bus as a parent for 5 years and have never been required to do so, although I would of course put my toddler on my knee if a wheelchair required the space.
Not all parents are villains! Some prams/pushchairs (as opposed to strollers) are still very large when folded down so there would be no room to store them on the bus other than in the wheelchair/buggy area anyway. Also, in the case of babies (as opposed to toddlers) they are far, far safer strapped into the frame of a pushchair in the event of an accident than being held in the parent’s arms. So please do not tar all parents who use the bus with a pram/pushchair with the same “rude, selfish, chav” brush. Parents with buggies are entitled to use the bus too and very rarely would they need to fold their pushchair down on a journey to allow space for a wheelchair. Indeed I have been using the bus as a parent for 5 years and have never been required to do so, although I would of course put my toddler on my knee if a wheelchair required the space. SheWhoDoes
  • Score: 3

10:35am Thu 31 Jul 14

meme says...

Is this really about discrimination or access to places
Most places try their best to get disabled people in or onto their premises/vehicle but it takes time to get every property suitable for every level of disability etc.
I thought discrimination was being deliberately obstructive/rude/ or deliberately excluding someone due to their disability/creed/col
our to people but what do I know?
I thought most people/business/tran
sport were trying hard to be as inclusive as its physically possible but I am shocked that I am obviously wrong
Is this really about discrimination or access to places Most places try their best to get disabled people in or onto their premises/vehicle but it takes time to get every property suitable for every level of disability etc. I thought discrimination was being deliberately obstructive/rude/ or deliberately excluding someone due to their disability/creed/col our [which I cannot believe is generally the case] to people but what do I know? I thought most people/business/tran sport were trying hard to be as inclusive as its physically possible but I am shocked that I am obviously wrong meme
  • Score: 0

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