Call for resignations over Lendal Bridge trial

York Press: Call for resignations over Lendal Bridge trial Call for resignations over Lendal Bridge trial

TWO top councillors will formally be urged at tonight’s full council meeting to apologise and resign over the 'botched' Lendal Bridge trial.

Liberal Democrats will claim the Labour cabinet member responsible for the trial closure of the bridge, Dave Merrett, had said in April that if the trial was proved to be unlawful, he would resign.

"It has been proved unlawful and therefore he has to leave the Cabinet," claimed the party's group leader Keith Aspden, adding that council leader James Alexander should 'follow him out,' after 'failing to get a grip of the issue from day one.'

Cllr Aspden will also call tonight for all 60,000 motorists who were fined for crossing the bridge to be repaid automatically, without having to apply for a refund.

His resignation calls were give short shrift by Labour, who accused opposition parties of political point scoring after putting Lendal Bridge closure in the council's transport plan when they ran the authority.

Cllr Alexander said the Conservative group leader, Chris Steward, had previously been called on to resign when he had said 'don't give to food banks as the poor are feckless' and a Liberal Democrat Executive Member - Ann Reid - had previously been urged to resign when she had arranged for her daughter to travel automatically through all traffic lights for her wedding. "Neither did," he said.

“Labour tried some bold action to tackle congestion, it was controversial and unpopular and we have listened. What is important is we now try to work together to tackle congestion which is an issue that will not go away."

Cllr Steward said it was disappointing the Labour leader had linked calls for him to stand down over the Lendal Bridge 'shambles' to events going back years.

He denied saying what Cllr Alexander alleged, but admitted he had said 'something wrong' about food banks early last year and had promptly apologised afterwards.

"My point was that poverty in the third world was far greater than the UK, but I made that point badly," he said. "Cllr Alexander has refused to apologise for any of his many failings and sadly always avoids any responsibility or lashes out at others with personal attacks instead."

The row come as a leading QC has questioned the legality of the authority's decision - as a 'goodwill gesture' - to provide the refunds.

Paul Greaney, who works from chambers in Leeds but said he was speaking as a York council tax payer, said the council’s position essentially was that it intended to give away money to which it contended it was lawfully entitled.

"On its face, that is a surprising position for a public body to adopt," he said, asking what power the council purported to be exercising in making such payments and, if such power existed, what reasons were asserted for the give away when public funds were scarce.

A council spokeswoman said the authority would be responding to the QC’s claims in due course, and could not comment on them at this stage.

Comments (83)

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11:20am Thu 17 Jul 14

The Great Buda says...

Have to agree.

Its the only way to save your party now Jimmy, Time to fall on your sword.
Have to agree. Its the only way to save your party now Jimmy, Time to fall on your sword. The Great Buda
  • Score: -40

11:26am Thu 17 Jul 14

Kevin Turvey says...

I do agree with the Liberal Democrats suggestion that Alexander and Merret should resign tonight.

However they should have done so long ago, so if they do not do the honourable thing tonight they should be sacked.

This is far from party political it is about honesty and being fit to undertake public duties.

These two individuals and Simply Wrong are neither!

All three have messed up and attempted to cover up using dirty tricks in vain attempts to hookwink the very people they purport to represent who also pay their wages.

I will look forward to Friday mornings Press website with the good news that York can finally start to rebuild its international reputation that these individuals have done so much damage to in such a short space of time

It’s time to take politics back to the people to represent them and not to self-serving career so called ‘leaders’.

Maybe the public gallery will be a record turnout tonight to ensure that it actually happens, even if a flash mob demonstration is required?
Its a sad day when this would be required but they have brought on themselves!
I do agree with the Liberal Democrats suggestion that Alexander and Merret should resign tonight. However they should have done so long ago, so if they do not do the honourable thing tonight they should be sacked. This is far from party political it is about honesty and being fit to undertake public duties. These two individuals and Simply Wrong are neither! All three have messed up and attempted to cover up using dirty tricks in vain attempts to hookwink the very people they purport to represent who also pay their wages. I will look forward to Friday mornings Press website with the good news that York can finally start to rebuild its international reputation that these individuals have done so much damage to in such a short space of time It’s time to take politics back to the people to represent them and not to self-serving career so called ‘leaders’. Maybe the public gallery will be a record turnout tonight to ensure that it actually happens, even if a flash mob demonstration is required? Its a sad day when this would be required but they have brought on themselves! Kevin Turvey
  • Score: -68

11:32am Thu 17 Jul 14

Big Bad Wolf says...

Not a chance..... They can see no wrong in their actions.

The only way they will leave is at the next election.
Not a chance..... They can see no wrong in their actions. The only way they will leave is at the next election. Big Bad Wolf
  • Score: -81

11:40am Thu 17 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

The council's reputation is in tatters;

* Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge)
* High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious'
* Wasted £600k on 20mph signage
* Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta
* Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring'
* Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves

Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO. Badgers Drift
  • Score: -78

11:54am Thu 17 Jul 14

big boy york says...

theres more chance of the pope giving up sunday working than alexander falling on his sword n doing the right thing
theres more chance of the pope giving up sunday working than alexander falling on his sword n doing the right thing big boy york
  • Score: -81

12:08pm Thu 17 Jul 14

BL2 says...

There needs to be a local council recall process as well as the MP recall one. These people should never be allowed to hold public office again!
There needs to be a local council recall process as well as the MP recall one. These people should never be allowed to hold public office again! BL2
  • Score: -84

12:16pm Thu 17 Jul 14

strangebuttrue? says...

On the subject of the legality of fines - Mr Merrett told BBC Radio York:

"Yes, I accept that at the end of the day that if we've got it wrong to that extent that I'd have to resign."

Is he a man of his word? We will know today evidently.
On the subject of the legality of fines - Mr Merrett told BBC Radio York: "Yes, I accept that at the end of the day that if we've got it wrong to that extent that I'd have to resign." Is he a man of his word? We will know today evidently. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -84

12:19pm Thu 17 Jul 14

tessah-York says...

Badgers Drift wrote:
The council's reputation is in tatters;

* Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge)
* High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious'
* Wasted £600k on 20mph signage
* Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta
* Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring'
* Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves

Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
I couldn't agree more... all need to go... they have wasted enough of our hard earned money and time in their vanity projects, while letting the essential services suffer.

BL2 - I agree - its a shame we can't vote them out now... public recall.
[quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.[/p][/quote]I couldn't agree more... all need to go... they have wasted enough of our hard earned money and time in their vanity projects, while letting the essential services suffer. BL2 - I agree - its a shame we can't vote them out now... public recall. tessah-York
  • Score: -82

12:19pm Thu 17 Jul 14

tessah-York says...

Badgers Drift wrote:
The council's reputation is in tatters;

* Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge)
* High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious'
* Wasted £600k on 20mph signage
* Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta
* Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring'
* Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves

Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
I couldn't agree more... all need to go... they have wasted enough of our hard earned money and time in their vanity projects, while letting the essential services suffer.

BL2 - I agree - its a shame we can't vote them out now... public recall.
[quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.[/p][/quote]I couldn't agree more... all need to go... they have wasted enough of our hard earned money and time in their vanity projects, while letting the essential services suffer. BL2 - I agree - its a shame we can't vote them out now... public recall. tessah-York
  • Score: -28

12:23pm Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

Badgers Drift wrote:
The council's reputation is in tatters;

* Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge)
* High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious'
* Wasted £600k on 20mph signage
* Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta
* Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring'
* Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves

Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
Boo hiss the nasty council.

You have a point about the first two items, and I understand action is being taken to redress those, with a refund scheme and a review of why the FoIs were regarded as they were.

You are unfortunately wrong on the other points. and are bringing too much opinion into your argument. What you see to be a waste of 20mph signs I regards a a really good improvement to the city. Nesta isn't a dubious charity. As for local labour party politics, I suspect it's only the cllrs involved, plus you and one or two others, who actually care about it. I doubt people coming to England from Beijing are going to think "uh-oh, York has got some serious issues with how its incumbent local government selects its candidates, we'd better go to Newcastle instead."

York's reputation isn't in "tatters" because a few grumpy internet haters want to think it is.

Bethany
[quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.[/p][/quote]Boo hiss the nasty council. You have a point about the first two items, and I understand action is being taken to redress those, with a refund scheme and a review of why the FoIs were regarded as they were. You are unfortunately wrong on the other points. and are bringing too much opinion into your argument. What you see to be a waste of 20mph signs I regards a a really good improvement to the city. Nesta isn't a dubious charity. As for local labour party politics, I suspect it's only the cllrs involved, plus you and one or two others, who actually care about it. I doubt people coming to England from Beijing are going to think "uh-oh, York has got some serious issues with how its incumbent local government selects its candidates, we'd better go to Newcastle instead." York's reputation isn't in "tatters" because a few grumpy internet haters want to think it is. Bethany BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: 73

12:24pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Jackanory2 says...

The Great Buda wrote:
Have to agree. Its the only way to save your party now Jimmy, Time to fall on your sword.
Hes too arrogant.
[quote][p][bold]The Great Buda[/bold] wrote: Have to agree. Its the only way to save your party now Jimmy, Time to fall on your sword.[/p][/quote]Hes too arrogant. Jackanory2
  • Score: -95

12:24pm Thu 17 Jul 14

eeoodares says...

They will never resign, they do not have the integrity to do so. They have no love for their Party, they have no love for this City and they have no self respect.

Just remember that because of what these people have done to this City there will be massive cuts on services for years to come. I suggest Alexander should point to which services should be cut because of his ineptitude.
They will never resign, they do not have the integrity to do so. They have no love for their Party, they have no love for this City and they have no self respect. Just remember that because of what these people have done to this City there will be massive cuts on services for years to come. I suggest Alexander should point to which services should be cut because of his ineptitude. eeoodares
  • Score: -235

12:28pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Jackanory2 says...

Its all well and good getting rid of this council (which I agree with), but is there any one better to replace them, the last lot before these were a nightmare also.

"The fact some one wants to be a councillor should bar them from being a councillor" as the saying goes.
Its all well and good getting rid of this council (which I agree with), but is there any one better to replace them, the last lot before these were a nightmare also. "The fact some one wants to be a councillor should bar them from being a councillor" as the saying goes. Jackanory2
  • Score: -230

12:28pm Thu 17 Jul 14

TheTruthHurts says...

Yeah I agree with the above. JA is definitely sliding towards that trapdoor I think that there is no chance of him going through it voluntarily. Comparing The Lendal bridge disaster (and it is a disaster) with CS comment on food banks is a bit embarrassing.

As for DM well. He surely has no choice? It is on record that he would quit if it was unlawful and it has been proven to be unlawful. If he doesnt jump then he should be pushed because it looks very very bad otherwise.

I get the feeling at the moment that the council are shoring up their little dam as and when the leaks spring and its not going to be long before the whole thing gives way and us council taxpayers are going to be gobsmacked at what floats down.
Yeah I agree with the above. JA is definitely sliding towards that trapdoor I think that there is no chance of him going through it voluntarily. Comparing The Lendal bridge disaster (and it is a disaster) with CS comment on food banks is a bit embarrassing. As for DM well. He surely has no choice? It is on record that he would quit if it was unlawful and it has been proven to be unlawful. If he doesnt jump then he should be pushed because it looks very very bad otherwise. I get the feeling at the moment that the council are shoring up their little dam as and when the leaks spring and its not going to be long before the whole thing gives way and us council taxpayers are going to be gobsmacked at what floats down. TheTruthHurts
  • Score: -189

12:30pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Knavesmire view says...

strangebuttrue? wrote:
On the subject of the legality of fines - Mr Merrett told BBC Radio York:

"Yes, I accept that at the end of the day that if we've got it wrong to that extent that I'd have to resign."

Is he a man of his word? We will know today evidently.
Unfortunately this explains the Council's official stance.

They say they continue to maintain that the fines weren't illegal, but they'll pay them back anyway, which as highlighted in the article is nonense.

But allows Merrett to hide behind the fact that they still think it wasn't illegal.

It stinks, Merrett and Alexander should have gone along, but they won't, they'll have to be dragged out kicking and screaming in May when we vote them out.

I just hope they don't do any more damage before then, but sadly we all know that they will.
[quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote: On the subject of the legality of fines - Mr Merrett told BBC Radio York: "Yes, I accept that at the end of the day that if we've got it wrong to that extent that I'd have to resign." Is he a man of his word? We will know today evidently.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately this explains the Council's official stance. They say they continue to maintain that the fines weren't illegal, but they'll pay them back anyway, which as highlighted in the article is nonense. But allows Merrett to hide behind the fact that they still think it wasn't illegal. It stinks, Merrett and Alexander should have gone along, but they won't, they'll have to be dragged out kicking and screaming in May when we vote them out. I just hope they don't do any more damage before then, but sadly we all know that they will. Knavesmire view
  • Score: -189

12:31pm Thu 17 Jul 14

eeoodares says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
Badgers Drift wrote:
The council's reputation is in tatters;

* Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge)
* High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious'
* Wasted £600k on 20mph signage
* Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta
* Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring'
* Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves

Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
Boo hiss the nasty council.

You have a point about the first two items, and I understand action is being taken to redress those, with a refund scheme and a review of why the FoIs were regarded as they were.

You are unfortunately wrong on the other points. and are bringing too much opinion into your argument. What you see to be a waste of 20mph signs I regards a a really good improvement to the city. Nesta isn't a dubious charity. As for local labour party politics, I suspect it's only the cllrs involved, plus you and one or two others, who actually care about it. I doubt people coming to England from Beijing are going to think "uh-oh, York has got some serious issues with how its incumbent local government selects its candidates, we'd better go to Newcastle instead."

York's reputation isn't in "tatters" because a few grumpy internet haters want to think it is.

Bethany
I do not think that Council is Nasty I think that they are incompetent.

The third point above that you say is a good idea. Once the police say that they do not support and will not enforce the 20mph limit, then that is it. Implement it in a trial area, if it does not work do not then roll it out across the City. If you ran a business in this way you would go bust, if you are a Councillor, you can keep doing it for years, until you are voted out and then leave it for the tax payers to sort out.

I think that you will find that tourists from around the world (Bejing for instance) would have regarded the City as dubious when they get find for driving on the inner ring road.
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.[/p][/quote]Boo hiss the nasty council. You have a point about the first two items, and I understand action is being taken to redress those, with a refund scheme and a review of why the FoIs were regarded as they were. You are unfortunately wrong on the other points. and are bringing too much opinion into your argument. What you see to be a waste of 20mph signs I regards a a really good improvement to the city. Nesta isn't a dubious charity. As for local labour party politics, I suspect it's only the cllrs involved, plus you and one or two others, who actually care about it. I doubt people coming to England from Beijing are going to think "uh-oh, York has got some serious issues with how its incumbent local government selects its candidates, we'd better go to Newcastle instead." York's reputation isn't in "tatters" because a few grumpy internet haters want to think it is. Bethany[/p][/quote]I do not think that Council is Nasty I think that they are incompetent. The third point above that you say is a good idea. Once the police say that they do not support and will not enforce the 20mph limit, then that is it. Implement it in a trial area, if it does not work do not then roll it out across the City. If you ran a business in this way you would go bust, if you are a Councillor, you can keep doing it for years, until you are voted out and then leave it for the tax payers to sort out. I think that you will find that tourists from around the world (Bejing for instance) would have regarded the City as dubious when they get find for driving on the inner ring road. eeoodares
  • Score: -129

12:51pm Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

The third point above that you say is a good idea. Once the police say that they do not support and will not enforce the 20mph limit, then that is it. Implement it in a trial area, if it does not work do not then roll it out across the City. If you ran a business in this way you would go bust, if you are a Councillor, you can keep doing it for years, until you are voted out and then leave it for the tax payers to sort out.


The Council is not a business and long may that continue. Our political system is inherently designed to stop things taking place however it does allow more radical "maverick" ideas to happen after people vote for it on a manifesto. Long may that continue. Some things are unpopular or do not make money - I do not really understand why you'd want the Council to run as a business where popularity or finance come first.

I think that you will find that tourists from around the world (Bejing for instance) would have regarded the City as dubious when they get find for driving on the inner ring road.


I think that's a poor example but I agree people would be very upset by that. However, York isn't the only world class city to have traffic restrictions or bus lanes. London, Barcelona, even where I used to live in Milan has far more "harsh" anti-traffic measures and don't have a poor reputation. And certainly the London congestion charge was seen as a maverick idea when it was introduced, but it's now regarded pretty much universally as a huge success.

Bethany
[quote]The third point above that you say is a good idea. Once the police say that they do not support and will not enforce the 20mph limit, then that is it. Implement it in a trial area, if it does not work do not then roll it out across the City. If you ran a business in this way you would go bust, if you are a Councillor, you can keep doing it for years, until you are voted out and then leave it for the tax payers to sort out.[/quote] The Council is not a business and long may that continue. Our political system is inherently designed to stop things taking place however it does allow more radical "maverick" ideas to happen after people vote for it on a manifesto. Long may that continue. Some things are unpopular or do not make money - I do not really understand why you'd want the Council to run as a business where popularity or finance come first. [quote]I think that you will find that tourists from around the world (Bejing for instance) would have regarded the City as dubious when they get find for driving on the inner ring road.[/quote] I think that's a poor example but I agree people would be very upset by that. However, York isn't the only world class city to have traffic restrictions or bus lanes. London, Barcelona, even where I used to live in Milan has far more "harsh" anti-traffic measures and don't have a poor reputation. And certainly the London congestion charge was seen as a maverick idea when it was introduced, but it's now regarded pretty much universally as a huge success. Bethany BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: 77

12:54pm Thu 17 Jul 14

inthesticks says...

I`m more concerned about the top paid staff (you know who they are) rather than the Cllrs, who can easily be voted out. Obvs glaring errors were made by people who should have advised/implemented (or not) policy better. They hide at the back of the room and keep schtum.
I`m more concerned about the top paid staff (you know who they are) rather than the Cllrs, who can easily be voted out. Obvs glaring errors were made by people who should have advised/implemented (or not) policy better. They hide at the back of the room and keep schtum. inthesticks
  • Score: -100

1:15pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Dave Ruddock says...

I get a little annoyed when the CYC refers to there selves as "Cabinet", Think over ambitious a council calling themselves a Cabinet, closest they get is getting the responce of a WOODEN CABINET. Also can leaders and what ever please stop school bot chat, its you that are responsible to the Public. As for the Lendal Saga and other sags, that All the (So Called) elected parties arguse about, oh i wish we had the Corporation back.
As for the councilors concerned, at least own up, as children have to..
I get a little annoyed when the CYC refers to there selves as "Cabinet", Think over ambitious a council calling themselves a Cabinet, closest they get is getting the responce of a WOODEN CABINET. Also can leaders and what ever please stop school bot chat, its you that are responsible to the Public. As for the Lendal Saga and other sags, that All the (So Called) elected parties arguse about, oh i wish we had the Corporation back. As for the councilors concerned, at least own up, as children have to.. Dave Ruddock
  • Score: -58

1:22pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

I will look forward to Friday mornings Press website with the good news that York can finally start to rebuild its international reputation that these individuals have done so much damage to in such a short space of time

More hyperbole.
For heavens sake, why can't people keep themselves in check? Why do they need to get all Walter Mitty over every little thing?
How about stick to the facts? Facts which are damaging enough without "You all saw him, he had a gun!"

The council's reputation is damaged. Local Labour's rep is damaged.
The city of York is doing well and remains unaffected internationally by the local fuss over a few yards of river crossing.

Anyone would think we've been launching airstrikes.
[quote]I will look forward to Friday mornings Press website with the good news that York can finally start to rebuild its international reputation that these individuals have done so much damage to in such a short space of time[/quote] More hyperbole. For heavens sake, why can't people keep themselves in check? Why do they need to get all Walter Mitty over every little thing? How about stick to the facts? Facts which are damaging enough without "You all saw him, he had a gun!" The council's reputation is damaged. Local Labour's rep is damaged. The city of York is doing well and remains unaffected internationally by the local fuss over a few yards of river crossing. Anyone would think we've been launching airstrikes. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 37

1:22pm Thu 17 Jul 14

eeoodares says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
The third point above that you say is a good idea. Once the police say that they do not support and will not enforce the 20mph limit, then that is it. Implement it in a trial area, if it does not work do not then roll it out across the City. If you ran a business in this way you would go bust, if you are a Councillor, you can keep doing it for years, until you are voted out and then leave it for the tax payers to sort out.


The Council is not a business and long may that continue. Our political system is inherently designed to stop things taking place however it does allow more radical "maverick" ideas to happen after people vote for it on a manifesto. Long may that continue. Some things are unpopular or do not make money - I do not really understand why you'd want the Council to run as a business where popularity or finance come first.

I think that you will find that tourists from around the world (Bejing for instance) would have regarded the City as dubious when they get find for driving on the inner ring road.


I think that's a poor example but I agree people would be very upset by that. However, York isn't the only world class city to have traffic restrictions or bus lanes. London, Barcelona, even where I used to live in Milan has far more "harsh" anti-traffic measures and don't have a poor reputation. And certainly the London congestion charge was seen as a maverick idea when it was introduced, but it's now regarded pretty much universally as a huge success.

Bethany
If a speed limit is being imposed by the Council, the Police will not enforce or support it, and it fails to slow traffic....the Council then expand the failed scheme... Most people would call that foolish, you seem to think of it as 'maverick'.

You may not think that it is important for a political organisation to be able to balance its books I think that it is extremely important. However, you sound like a deep-red Labour follower so you will remember.... a stark message left in a Treasury desk, by outgoing Labour chief secretary to the Treasury Liam Byrne wrote simply: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left.' ... But you seem to think that was OK...You probably see him as a Maverick!

The traffic regulations in York were fatally flawed from day one and highlighted as not legally enforceable shortly later... This means that people were unlawfully fined, the council will not admit it was unlawful but will had back Taxpayers money anyway.... So either the Council is withholding peoples money with no legitimate right to it, or it is giving away money that it does not have any legitimate right redistribute....But you would call that Maverick.

If you can not see the time has come for these people to go, then only one conclusion can be drawn....YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM!
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote]The third point above that you say is a good idea. Once the police say that they do not support and will not enforce the 20mph limit, then that is it. Implement it in a trial area, if it does not work do not then roll it out across the City. If you ran a business in this way you would go bust, if you are a Councillor, you can keep doing it for years, until you are voted out and then leave it for the tax payers to sort out.[/quote] The Council is not a business and long may that continue. Our political system is inherently designed to stop things taking place however it does allow more radical "maverick" ideas to happen after people vote for it on a manifesto. Long may that continue. Some things are unpopular or do not make money - I do not really understand why you'd want the Council to run as a business where popularity or finance come first. [quote]I think that you will find that tourists from around the world (Bejing for instance) would have regarded the City as dubious when they get find for driving on the inner ring road.[/quote] I think that's a poor example but I agree people would be very upset by that. However, York isn't the only world class city to have traffic restrictions or bus lanes. London, Barcelona, even where I used to live in Milan has far more "harsh" anti-traffic measures and don't have a poor reputation. And certainly the London congestion charge was seen as a maverick idea when it was introduced, but it's now regarded pretty much universally as a huge success. Bethany[/p][/quote]If a speed limit is being imposed by the Council, the Police will not enforce or support it, and it fails to slow traffic....the Council then expand the failed scheme... Most people would call that foolish, you seem to think of it as 'maverick'. You may not think that it is important for a political organisation to be able to balance its books I think that it is extremely important. However, you sound like a deep-red Labour follower so you will remember.... a stark message left in a Treasury desk, by outgoing Labour chief secretary to the Treasury Liam Byrne wrote simply: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left.' ... But you seem to think that was OK...You probably see him as a Maverick! The traffic regulations in York were fatally flawed from day one and highlighted as not legally enforceable shortly later... This means that people were unlawfully fined, the council will not admit it was unlawful but will had back Taxpayers money anyway.... So either the Council is withholding peoples money with no legitimate right to it, or it is giving away money that it does not have any legitimate right redistribute....But you would call that Maverick. If you can not see the time has come for these people to go, then only one conclusion can be drawn....YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM! eeoodares
  • Score: -35

1:24pm Thu 17 Jul 14

eeoodares says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
The third point above that you say is a good idea. Once the police say that they do not support and will not enforce the 20mph limit, then that is it. Implement it in a trial area, if it does not work do not then roll it out across the City. If you ran a business in this way you would go bust, if you are a Councillor, you can keep doing it for years, until you are voted out and then leave it for the tax payers to sort out.


The Council is not a business and long may that continue. Our political system is inherently designed to stop things taking place however it does allow more radical "maverick" ideas to happen after people vote for it on a manifesto. Long may that continue. Some things are unpopular or do not make money - I do not really understand why you'd want the Council to run as a business where popularity or finance come first.

I think that you will find that tourists from around the world (Bejing for instance) would have regarded the City as dubious when they get find for driving on the inner ring road.


I think that's a poor example but I agree people would be very upset by that. However, York isn't the only world class city to have traffic restrictions or bus lanes. London, Barcelona, even where I used to live in Milan has far more "harsh" anti-traffic measures and don't have a poor reputation. And certainly the London congestion charge was seen as a maverick idea when it was introduced, but it's now regarded pretty much universally as a huge success.

Bethany
If a speed limit is being imposed by the Council, the Police will not enforce or support it, and it fails to slow traffic....the Council then expand the failed scheme... Most people would call that foolish, you seem to think of it as 'maverick'.

You may not think that it is important for a political organisation to be able to balance its books I think that it is extremely important. However, you sound like a deep-red Labour follower so you will remember.... a stark message left in a Treasury desk, by outgoing Labour chief secretary to the Treasury Liam Byrne wrote simply: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left.' ... But you seem to think that was OK...You probably see him as a Maverick!

The traffic regulations in York were fatally flawed from day one and highlighted as not legally enforceable shortly later... This means that people were unlawfully fined, the council will not admit it was unlawful but will had back Taxpayers money anyway.... So either the Council is withholding peoples money with no legitimate right to it, or it is giving away money that it does not have any legitimate right redistribute....But you would call that Maverick.

If you can not see the time has come for these people to go, then only one conclusion can be drawn....YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM!
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote]The third point above that you say is a good idea. Once the police say that they do not support and will not enforce the 20mph limit, then that is it. Implement it in a trial area, if it does not work do not then roll it out across the City. If you ran a business in this way you would go bust, if you are a Councillor, you can keep doing it for years, until you are voted out and then leave it for the tax payers to sort out.[/quote] The Council is not a business and long may that continue. Our political system is inherently designed to stop things taking place however it does allow more radical "maverick" ideas to happen after people vote for it on a manifesto. Long may that continue. Some things are unpopular or do not make money - I do not really understand why you'd want the Council to run as a business where popularity or finance come first. [quote]I think that you will find that tourists from around the world (Bejing for instance) would have regarded the City as dubious when they get find for driving on the inner ring road.[/quote] I think that's a poor example but I agree people would be very upset by that. However, York isn't the only world class city to have traffic restrictions or bus lanes. London, Barcelona, even where I used to live in Milan has far more "harsh" anti-traffic measures and don't have a poor reputation. And certainly the London congestion charge was seen as a maverick idea when it was introduced, but it's now regarded pretty much universally as a huge success. Bethany[/p][/quote]If a speed limit is being imposed by the Council, the Police will not enforce or support it, and it fails to slow traffic....the Council then expand the failed scheme... Most people would call that foolish, you seem to think of it as 'maverick'. You may not think that it is important for a political organisation to be able to balance its books I think that it is extremely important. However, you sound like a deep-red Labour follower so you will remember.... a stark message left in a Treasury desk, by outgoing Labour chief secretary to the Treasury Liam Byrne wrote simply: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left.' ... But you seem to think that was OK...You probably see him as a Maverick! The traffic regulations in York were fatally flawed from day one and highlighted as not legally enforceable shortly later... This means that people were unlawfully fined, the council will not admit it was unlawful but will had back Taxpayers money anyway.... So either the Council is withholding peoples money with no legitimate right to it, or it is giving away money that it does not have any legitimate right redistribute....But you would call that Maverick. If you can not see the time has come for these people to go, then only one conclusion can be drawn....YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM! eeoodares
  • Score: -60

1:25pm Thu 17 Jul 14

CaroleBaines says...

Badgers Drift wrote:
The council's reputation is in tatters;

* Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge)
* High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious'
* Wasted £600k on 20mph signage
* Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta
* Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring'
* Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves

Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
Why is Nesta dubious? They receive lottery funding don't they and work closely with the current government? Seem to recall they were approached re the quietly dropped Big Society thing Cameron first championed when he came to power. Hardly fringe are they, even the Tories seem to approve so not sure what all the Marxist stuff comes from. Please explain.
[quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.[/p][/quote]Why is Nesta dubious? They receive lottery funding don't they and work closely with the current government? Seem to recall they were approached re the quietly dropped Big Society thing Cameron first championed when he came to power. Hardly fringe are they, even the Tories seem to approve so not sure what all the Marxist stuff comes from. Please explain. CaroleBaines
  • Score: 80

1:25pm Thu 17 Jul 14

howmanymoretimes says...

I see there is a council meeting scheduled for 6.30pm . Is that the one we are talking about please?
I see there is a council meeting scheduled for 6.30pm . Is that the one we are talking about please? howmanymoretimes
  • Score: -65

1:39pm Thu 17 Jul 14

meme says...

Deep down the real issue that gets me and others seems to be the lack of accountability and respect for the people of York who voted for them.
They always think they are right and they are never prepared to admit they got it wrong and resort to refusing to answer questions rigging consultations or just blindly ploughing ahead because they think they know best.
Christ we all make mistakes and most of us a re prepared to admit that but when you were warned in advance and refused to listen then you deserve to take a caning for that mistake. That's what going on here.
If it was Merritt who pushed this through he should resign as he was warned. If it was Alexander so should he. Any reasonable person who had lost York's ratepayers some multiples of millions of pounds would do the honourable thing...lets face it they can go for re-election later and the public can decide but we all know it wont happen
Deep down the real issue that gets me and others seems to be the lack of accountability and respect for the people of York who voted for them. They always think they are right [as do I but I know I'm not!] and they are never prepared to admit they got it wrong and resort to refusing to answer questions [see FOI requests] rigging consultations or just blindly ploughing ahead because they think they know best. Christ we all make mistakes and most of us a re prepared to admit that but when you were warned in advance and refused to listen then you deserve to take a caning for that mistake. That's what going on here. If it was Merritt who pushed this through he should resign as he was warned. If it was Alexander so should he. Any reasonable person who had lost York's ratepayers some multiples of millions of pounds would do the honourable thing...lets face it they can go for re-election later and the public can decide but we all know it wont happen meme
  • Score: -48

1:44pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
Badgers Drift wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
Boo hiss the nasty council. You have a point about the first two items, and I understand action is being taken to redress those, with a refund scheme and a review of why the FoIs were regarded as they were. You are unfortunately wrong on the other points. and are bringing too much opinion into your argument. What you see to be a waste of 20mph signs I regards a a really good improvement to the city. Nesta isn't a dubious charity. As for local labour party politics, I suspect it's only the cllrs involved, plus you and one or two others, who actually care about it. I doubt people coming to England from Beijing are going to think "uh-oh, York has got some serious issues with how its incumbent local government selects its candidates, we'd better go to Newcastle instead." York's reputation isn't in "tatters" because a few grumpy internet haters want to think it is. Bethany
Sorry, Bethany, you are wrong. the council is an absolute shambles, and is on the verge of meltdown.

They will struggle to keep a lid on the internal mess, as more and more scandals are disclosed by whistleblowers.

The carnage with labour councillors is only the beginning......
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.[/p][/quote]Boo hiss the nasty council. You have a point about the first two items, and I understand action is being taken to redress those, with a refund scheme and a review of why the FoIs were regarded as they were. You are unfortunately wrong on the other points. and are bringing too much opinion into your argument. What you see to be a waste of 20mph signs I regards a a really good improvement to the city. Nesta isn't a dubious charity. As for local labour party politics, I suspect it's only the cllrs involved, plus you and one or two others, who actually care about it. I doubt people coming to England from Beijing are going to think "uh-oh, York has got some serious issues with how its incumbent local government selects its candidates, we'd better go to Newcastle instead." York's reputation isn't in "tatters" because a few grumpy internet haters want to think it is. Bethany[/p][/quote]Sorry, Bethany, you are wrong. the council is an absolute shambles, and is on the verge of meltdown. They will struggle to keep a lid on the internal mess, as more and more scandals are disclosed by whistleblowers. The carnage with labour councillors is only the beginning...... Badgers Drift
  • Score: -35

1:54pm Thu 17 Jul 14

mary poppins21 says...

They should have been out long ago and the rest of the of them should have stood up to JA months ago instead of being lap dogs.

GET THEM OUT
They should have been out long ago and the rest of the of them should have stood up to JA months ago instead of being lap dogs. GET THEM OUT mary poppins21
  • Score: -32

2:09pm Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

Badgers Drift wrote:
BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
Badgers Drift wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
Boo hiss the nasty council. You have a point about the first two items, and I understand action is being taken to redress those, with a refund scheme and a review of why the FoIs were regarded as they were. You are unfortunately wrong on the other points. and are bringing too much opinion into your argument. What you see to be a waste of 20mph signs I regards a a really good improvement to the city. Nesta isn't a dubious charity. As for local labour party politics, I suspect it's only the cllrs involved, plus you and one or two others, who actually care about it. I doubt people coming to England from Beijing are going to think "uh-oh, York has got some serious issues with how its incumbent local government selects its candidates, we'd better go to Newcastle instead." York's reputation isn't in "tatters" because a few grumpy internet haters want to think it is. Bethany
Sorry, Bethany, you are wrong. the council is an absolute shambles, and is on the verge of meltdown.

They will struggle to keep a lid on the internal mess, as more and more scandals are disclosed by whistleblowers.

The carnage with labour councillors is only the beginning......
This is a very poor response, Badgers Drift. You don't address any of my points just repeat more of your ramble. What is in "shambles?" The local party politics have little to do with running a Council and delivering services.

"The verge of meltdown" Please offer some explanation as to his hyperbole. Otherwise it may be seen as a vacuous statement, devoid of any sense, direction or meaning.
[quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.[/p][/quote]Boo hiss the nasty council. You have a point about the first two items, and I understand action is being taken to redress those, with a refund scheme and a review of why the FoIs were regarded as they were. You are unfortunately wrong on the other points. and are bringing too much opinion into your argument. What you see to be a waste of 20mph signs I regards a a really good improvement to the city. Nesta isn't a dubious charity. As for local labour party politics, I suspect it's only the cllrs involved, plus you and one or two others, who actually care about it. I doubt people coming to England from Beijing are going to think "uh-oh, York has got some serious issues with how its incumbent local government selects its candidates, we'd better go to Newcastle instead." York's reputation isn't in "tatters" because a few grumpy internet haters want to think it is. Bethany[/p][/quote]Sorry, Bethany, you are wrong. the council is an absolute shambles, and is on the verge of meltdown. They will struggle to keep a lid on the internal mess, as more and more scandals are disclosed by whistleblowers. The carnage with labour councillors is only the beginning......[/p][/quote]This is a very poor response, Badgers Drift. You don't address any of my points just repeat more of your ramble. What is in "shambles?" The local party politics have little to do with running a Council and delivering services. "The verge of meltdown" Please offer some explanation as to his hyperbole. Otherwise it may be seen as a vacuous statement, devoid of any sense, direction or meaning. BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: 66

2:11pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

CaroleBaines wrote:
Badgers Drift wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
Why is Nesta dubious? They receive lottery funding don't they and work closely with the current government? Seem to recall they were approached re the quietly dropped Big Society thing Cameron first championed when he came to power. Hardly fringe are they, even the Tories seem to approve so not sure what all the Marxist stuff comes from. Please explain.
Nesta was originally funded by a £250 million endowment from the UK National Lottery in 1998.

Old NESTA was set up in 1998 by an independent endowment in the United Kingdom established by an Act of Parliament.

On 14 October 2010 the Government announced that it would transfer old NESTA's status from an executive non-departmental public body to a new charitable body.

On April 1, 2012 the old NESTA transitioned from being an executive to a charitable body, changing its name to Nesta, and dropping the long title.

Nesta (formerly NESTA, National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts) is an independent charity that works to increase the innovation capacity of the UK.

Geoff Mulgan became Chief Executive of Nesta in June 2011. Under his leadership Nesta moved out of the public sector to become a charity. Mulgan was the founder of marxist think-tank Demos., and was CEO of the Young Foundation from 2004 to 2011, which has links to marxism. Mulgan wrote the Demos paper 'The Other Invisible Hand: Remaking Charities for the 21st Century' and wrote the book 'The Locust and The Bee'. His master plan is to kill the 'brutal, destructive, predatory' capitalism, and replace it with social enterprise.

Basically, Mulgan has hijacked Nesta, and changed it into a vehicle to push a marxist agenda. They are working (influencing) mainly with Local Government pushing initiatives mainly about social innovation.

Kersten England is a trustee of Nesta, and york Council is being used as a guinea pig for many if Nesta's initiatives, including the rewiring and media city agendas.

The extent of Nesta's associations with, and influence on York are frightening, and have been carefully kept mainly secret.

This all needs to be investigated, and stopped, IMO.
[quote][p][bold]CaroleBaines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.[/p][/quote]Why is Nesta dubious? They receive lottery funding don't they and work closely with the current government? Seem to recall they were approached re the quietly dropped Big Society thing Cameron first championed when he came to power. Hardly fringe are they, even the Tories seem to approve so not sure what all the Marxist stuff comes from. Please explain.[/p][/quote]Nesta was originally funded by a £250 million endowment from the UK National Lottery in 1998. Old NESTA was set up in 1998 by an independent endowment in the United Kingdom established by an Act of Parliament. On 14 October 2010 the Government announced that it would transfer old NESTA's status from an executive non-departmental public body to a new charitable body. On April 1, 2012 the old NESTA transitioned from being an executive to a charitable body, changing its name to Nesta, and dropping the long title. Nesta (formerly NESTA, National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts) is an independent charity that works to increase the innovation capacity of the UK. Geoff Mulgan became Chief Executive of Nesta in June 2011. Under his leadership Nesta moved out of the public sector to become a charity. Mulgan was the founder of marxist think-tank Demos., and was CEO of the Young Foundation from 2004 to 2011, which has links to marxism. Mulgan wrote the Demos paper 'The Other Invisible Hand: Remaking Charities for the 21st Century' and wrote the book 'The Locust and The Bee'. His master plan is to kill the 'brutal, destructive, predatory' capitalism, and replace it with social enterprise. Basically, Mulgan has hijacked Nesta, and changed it into a vehicle to push a marxist agenda. They are working (influencing) mainly with Local Government pushing initiatives mainly about social innovation. Kersten England is a trustee of Nesta, and york Council is being used as a guinea pig for many if Nesta's initiatives, including the rewiring and media city agendas. The extent of Nesta's associations with, and influence on York are frightening, and have been carefully kept mainly secret. This all needs to be investigated, and stopped, IMO. Badgers Drift
  • Score: -43

2:18pm Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

If a speed limit is being imposed by the Council, the Police will not enforce or support it, and it fails to slow traffic....the Council then expand the failed scheme... Most people would call that foolish, you seem to think of it as 'maverick'.


I do. And I also believe they are correct. It is not a "failed scheme" because the police don't enforce it, or because you don't like it. It will only be a failed scheme if people don't slow down. I believe the roads will be better and more friendly because of the 20 mph limits.

You may not think that it is important for a political organisation to be able to balance its books I think that it is extremely important. However, you sound like a deep-red Labour follower so you will remember.... a stark message left in a Treasury desk, by outgoing Labour chief secretary to the Treasury Liam Byrne wrote simply: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left.' ... But you seem to think that was OK...You probably see him as a Maverick!


Please do not twist my words. Of course it is important to balance the books. However, you made a point that "if this was business, they'd be sacked" or something. That is a point about governance, not about finance. I do not want the Council to run as a business, which in reality is accountable only to shareholders and has one goal to make profit. I want a Council to be run by local people who are councillors with a focus on services. That is the difference between a business and a Council.

The traffic regulations in York were fatally flawed from day one and highlighted as not legally enforceable shortly later... This means that people were unlawfully fined, the council will not admit it was unlawful but will had back Taxpayers money anyway.... So either the Council is withholding peoples money with no legitimate right to it, or it is giving away money that it does not have any legitimate right redistribute....But you would call that Maverick.


You don't half skip around in your arguments. There are lots of points here and they have all been rehearsed several times so I'm not going to recap. Suffice to say it is a daft national situation for anyone (CYC/public) to be in where the only possibly route to determine legality is by appealing, and where drivers who pay the fine which is later held to be wrong have no legal recourse to claim their money back. CYC by offering a refund are going beyond their legal obligations here. It is a shame that the legal obligations and moral obligations are not aligned, but as said that is due to the national framework, not CYC's implementation.

If you can not see the time has come for these people to go, then only one conclusion can be drawn....YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM!


Please do not take this line of argument with me. I am a 17 year old school girl with no interest in joining labour or any of the "big four" parties (tory, liberals, ukip, labour). I do believe the time for them to "go" has come. But not in the bizarre and haphazard way you want them to go. Thank you. Bethany,
[quote]If a speed limit is being imposed by the Council, the Police will not enforce or support it, and it fails to slow traffic....the Council then expand the failed scheme... Most people would call that foolish, you seem to think of it as 'maverick'.[/quote] I do. And I also believe they are correct. It is not a "failed scheme" because the police don't enforce it, or because you don't like it. It will only be a failed scheme if people don't slow down. I believe the roads will be better and more friendly because of the 20 mph limits. [quote]You may not think that it is important for a political organisation to be able to balance its books I think that it is extremely important. However, you sound like a deep-red Labour follower so you will remember.... a stark message left in a Treasury desk, by outgoing Labour chief secretary to the Treasury Liam Byrne wrote simply: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left.' ... But you seem to think that was OK...You probably see him as a Maverick![/quote] Please do not twist my words. Of course it is important to balance the books. However, you made a point that "if this was business, they'd be sacked" or something. That is a point about governance, not about finance. I do not want the Council to run as a business, which in reality is accountable only to shareholders and has one goal to make profit. I want a Council to be run by local people who are councillors with a focus on services. That is the difference between a business and a Council. [quote]The traffic regulations in York were fatally flawed from day one and highlighted as not legally enforceable shortly later... This means that people were unlawfully fined, the council will not admit it was unlawful but will had back Taxpayers money anyway.... So either the Council is withholding peoples money with no legitimate right to it, or it is giving away money that it does not have any legitimate right redistribute....But you would call that Maverick.[/quote] You don't half skip around in your arguments. There are lots of points here and they have all been rehearsed several times so I'm not going to recap. Suffice to say it is a daft national situation for anyone (CYC/public) to be in where the only possibly route to determine legality is by appealing, and where drivers who pay the fine which is later held to be wrong have no legal recourse to claim their money back. CYC by offering a refund are going beyond their legal obligations here. It is a shame that the legal obligations and moral obligations are not aligned, but as said that is due to the national framework, not CYC's implementation. [quote]If you can not see the time has come for these people to go, then only one conclusion can be drawn....YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM![/quote] Please do not take this line of argument with me. I am a 17 year old school girl with no interest in joining labour or any of the "big four" parties (tory, liberals, ukip, labour). I do believe the time for them to "go" has come. But not in the bizarre and haphazard way you want them to go. Thank you. Bethany, BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: 11

2:26pm Thu 17 Jul 14

CaroleBaines says...

Badgers Drift wrote:
CaroleBaines wrote:
Badgers Drift wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
Why is Nesta dubious? They receive lottery funding don't they and work closely with the current government? Seem to recall they were approached re the quietly dropped Big Society thing Cameron first championed when he came to power. Hardly fringe are they, even the Tories seem to approve so not sure what all the Marxist stuff comes from. Please explain.
Nesta was originally funded by a £250 million endowment from the UK National Lottery in 1998.

Old NESTA was set up in 1998 by an independent endowment in the United Kingdom established by an Act of Parliament.

On 14 October 2010 the Government announced that it would transfer old NESTA's status from an executive non-departmental public body to a new charitable body.

On April 1, 2012 the old NESTA transitioned from being an executive to a charitable body, changing its name to Nesta, and dropping the long title.

Nesta (formerly NESTA, National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts) is an independent charity that works to increase the innovation capacity of the UK.

Geoff Mulgan became Chief Executive of Nesta in June 2011. Under his leadership Nesta moved out of the public sector to become a charity. Mulgan was the founder of marxist think-tank Demos., and was CEO of the Young Foundation from 2004 to 2011, which has links to marxism. Mulgan wrote the Demos paper 'The Other Invisible Hand: Remaking Charities for the 21st Century' and wrote the book 'The Locust and The Bee'. His master plan is to kill the 'brutal, destructive, predatory' capitalism, and replace it with social enterprise.

Basically, Mulgan has hijacked Nesta, and changed it into a vehicle to push a marxist agenda. They are working (influencing) mainly with Local Government pushing initiatives mainly about social innovation.

Kersten England is a trustee of Nesta, and york Council is being used as a guinea pig for many if Nesta's initiatives, including the rewiring and media city agendas.

The extent of Nesta's associations with, and influence on York are frightening, and have been carefully kept mainly secret.

This all needs to be investigated, and stopped, IMO.
Independent sources on the net say he has a first from Oxford, a PHD, a CBE and is assisting governments around the world including those (surely) capitalist regimes in Australia, United States and Japan! He also writes for the Independent.
Nowhere does it say he's a charity hijacking, Council corrupting, Marxist. Are you saying you have evidence that someone who was at the heart of government is trying to bring down capitalism and presumably turning the UK into a North Korean style protectorate?
Gosh! Good job you were here to save us all! Sorry, but....
[quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CaroleBaines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.[/p][/quote]Why is Nesta dubious? They receive lottery funding don't they and work closely with the current government? Seem to recall they were approached re the quietly dropped Big Society thing Cameron first championed when he came to power. Hardly fringe are they, even the Tories seem to approve so not sure what all the Marxist stuff comes from. Please explain.[/p][/quote]Nesta was originally funded by a £250 million endowment from the UK National Lottery in 1998. Old NESTA was set up in 1998 by an independent endowment in the United Kingdom established by an Act of Parliament. On 14 October 2010 the Government announced that it would transfer old NESTA's status from an executive non-departmental public body to a new charitable body. On April 1, 2012 the old NESTA transitioned from being an executive to a charitable body, changing its name to Nesta, and dropping the long title. Nesta (formerly NESTA, National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts) is an independent charity that works to increase the innovation capacity of the UK. Geoff Mulgan became Chief Executive of Nesta in June 2011. Under his leadership Nesta moved out of the public sector to become a charity. Mulgan was the founder of marxist think-tank Demos., and was CEO of the Young Foundation from 2004 to 2011, which has links to marxism. Mulgan wrote the Demos paper 'The Other Invisible Hand: Remaking Charities for the 21st Century' and wrote the book 'The Locust and The Bee'. His master plan is to kill the 'brutal, destructive, predatory' capitalism, and replace it with social enterprise. Basically, Mulgan has hijacked Nesta, and changed it into a vehicle to push a marxist agenda. They are working (influencing) mainly with Local Government pushing initiatives mainly about social innovation. Kersten England is a trustee of Nesta, and york Council is being used as a guinea pig for many if Nesta's initiatives, including the rewiring and media city agendas. The extent of Nesta's associations with, and influence on York are frightening, and have been carefully kept mainly secret. This all needs to be investigated, and stopped, IMO.[/p][/quote]Independent sources on the net say he has a first from Oxford, a PHD, a CBE and is assisting governments around the world including those (surely) capitalist regimes in Australia, United States and Japan! He also writes for the Independent. Nowhere does it say he's a charity hijacking, Council corrupting, Marxist. Are you saying you have evidence that someone who was at the heart of government is trying to bring down capitalism and presumably turning the UK into a North Korean style protectorate? Gosh! Good job you were here to save us all! Sorry, but.... CaroleBaines
  • Score: 45

2:27pm Thu 17 Jul 14

TheTruthHurts says...

Call me cynical but i have used these boards for too many years.

There is a new user today who is making a reasonably valid arguments and claiming to be a 17 year old girl.

Well girl this could be very complimentary in that you have a very wise head on your shoulders. You seem to know the ins and outs of the subjects that you are talking about and present them very well.

Personally (and no offence Beth) but i call Bull Droppings
Call me cynical but i have used these boards for too many years. There is a new user today who is making a reasonably valid arguments and claiming to be a 17 year old girl. Well girl this could be very complimentary in that you have a very wise head on your shoulders. You seem to know the ins and outs of the subjects that you are talking about and present them very well. Personally (and no offence Beth) but i call Bull Droppings TheTruthHurts
  • Score: -40

2:27pm Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

Geoff Mulgan became Chief Executive of Nesta in June 2011. Under his leadership Nesta moved out of the public sector to become a charity. Mulgan was the founder of marxist think-tank Demos., and was CEO of the Young Foundation from 2004 to 2011, which has links to marxism. Mulgan wrote the Demos paper 'The Other Invisible Hand: Remaking Charities for the 21st Century' and wrote the book 'The Locust and The Bee'. His master plan is to kill the 'brutal, destructive, predatory' capitalism, and replace it with social enterprise.


Demos isn't marxist. Mulgan might be, bur Demos is cross party in so far as that's possible. As for capitalism, the current version we've got doesn't exactly work!
[quote]Geoff Mulgan became Chief Executive of Nesta in June 2011. Under his leadership Nesta moved out of the public sector to become a charity. Mulgan was the founder of marxist think-tank Demos., and was CEO of the Young Foundation from 2004 to 2011, which has links to marxism. Mulgan wrote the Demos paper 'The Other Invisible Hand: Remaking Charities for the 21st Century' and wrote the book 'The Locust and The Bee'. His master plan is to kill the 'brutal, destructive, predatory' capitalism, and replace it with social enterprise.[/quote] Demos isn't marxist. Mulgan might be, bur Demos is cross party in so far as that's possible. As for capitalism, the current version we've got doesn't exactly work! BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: 70

2:27pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
Badgers Drift wrote:
BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
Badgers Drift wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
Boo hiss the nasty council. You have a point about the first two items, and I understand action is being taken to redress those, with a refund scheme and a review of why the FoIs were regarded as they were. You are unfortunately wrong on the other points. and are bringing too much opinion into your argument. What you see to be a waste of 20mph signs I regards a a really good improvement to the city. Nesta isn't a dubious charity. As for local labour party politics, I suspect it's only the cllrs involved, plus you and one or two others, who actually care about it. I doubt people coming to England from Beijing are going to think "uh-oh, York has got some serious issues with how its incumbent local government selects its candidates, we'd better go to Newcastle instead." York's reputation isn't in "tatters" because a few grumpy internet haters want to think it is. Bethany
Sorry, Bethany, you are wrong. the council is an absolute shambles, and is on the verge of meltdown. They will struggle to keep a lid on the internal mess, as more and more scandals are disclosed by whistleblowers. The carnage with labour councillors is only the beginning......
This is a very poor response, Badgers Drift. You don't address any of my points just repeat more of your ramble. What is in "shambles?" The local party politics have little to do with running a Council and delivering services. "The verge of meltdown" Please offer some explanation as to his hyperbole. Otherwise it may be seen as a vacuous statement, devoid of any sense, direction or meaning.
You obviously haven't been paying attention to controversial issues and senior staff changes which all point towards the meltdown.

Social services is in turmoil. They have overspent by over £1m, and Assistant Directors Graham Terry and Kathy Clark resigned in June. Interim staff were taken on by Kersten England under delegated powers.

Since the unlawful Lendal Bridge trial debacle erupted, Darren Richardson, Director of City & Environmental Services has resigned, and again Kersten England has appointed an interim on £700/day.

These are the tip of an iceberg, and there will be more controversial issues to follow.

I think you should do your homework, Bethany!
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.[/p][/quote]Boo hiss the nasty council. You have a point about the first two items, and I understand action is being taken to redress those, with a refund scheme and a review of why the FoIs were regarded as they were. You are unfortunately wrong on the other points. and are bringing too much opinion into your argument. What you see to be a waste of 20mph signs I regards a a really good improvement to the city. Nesta isn't a dubious charity. As for local labour party politics, I suspect it's only the cllrs involved, plus you and one or two others, who actually care about it. I doubt people coming to England from Beijing are going to think "uh-oh, York has got some serious issues with how its incumbent local government selects its candidates, we'd better go to Newcastle instead." York's reputation isn't in "tatters" because a few grumpy internet haters want to think it is. Bethany[/p][/quote]Sorry, Bethany, you are wrong. the council is an absolute shambles, and is on the verge of meltdown. They will struggle to keep a lid on the internal mess, as more and more scandals are disclosed by whistleblowers. The carnage with labour councillors is only the beginning......[/p][/quote]This is a very poor response, Badgers Drift. You don't address any of my points just repeat more of your ramble. What is in "shambles?" The local party politics have little to do with running a Council and delivering services. "The verge of meltdown" Please offer some explanation as to his hyperbole. Otherwise it may be seen as a vacuous statement, devoid of any sense, direction or meaning.[/p][/quote]You obviously haven't been paying attention to controversial issues and senior staff changes which all point towards the meltdown. Social services is in turmoil. They have overspent by over £1m, and Assistant Directors Graham Terry and Kathy Clark resigned in June. Interim staff were taken on by Kersten England under delegated powers. Since the unlawful Lendal Bridge trial debacle erupted, Darren Richardson, Director of City & Environmental Services has resigned, and again Kersten England has appointed an interim on £700/day. These are the tip of an iceberg, and there will be more controversial issues to follow. I think you should do your homework, Bethany! Badgers Drift
  • Score: -55

2:31pm Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

TheTruthHurts wrote:
Call me cynical but i have used these boards for too many years.

There is a new user today who is making a reasonably valid arguments and claiming to be a 17 year old girl.

Well girl this could be very complimentary in that you have a very wise head on your shoulders. You seem to know the ins and outs of the subjects that you are talking about and present them very well.

Personally (and no offence Beth) but i call Bull Droppings
Oh, sorry, should I dress in a miniskirt and drink vodka on park benches to fit in with your stereotype? Or maybe I should apologise for going to a fee paying school? Or being interested in politics? Or trying to use punctuation properly? Do I need to end every sentence with the words "in it" to make you happy? Don't be suck a c*ck.
[quote][p][bold]TheTruthHurts[/bold] wrote: Call me cynical but i have used these boards for too many years. There is a new user today who is making a reasonably valid arguments and claiming to be a 17 year old girl. Well girl this could be very complimentary in that you have a very wise head on your shoulders. You seem to know the ins and outs of the subjects that you are talking about and present them very well. Personally (and no offence Beth) but i call Bull Droppings[/p][/quote]Oh, sorry, should I dress in a miniskirt and drink vodka on park benches to fit in with your stereotype? Or maybe I should apologise for going to a fee paying school? Or being interested in politics? Or trying to use punctuation properly? Do I need to end every sentence with the words "in it" to make you happy? Don't be suck a c*ck. BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: 70

2:34pm Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

You obviously haven't been paying attention to controversial issues and senior staff changes which all point towards the meltdown.

Social services is in turmoil. They have overspent by over £1m, and Assistant Directors Graham Terry and Kathy Clark resigned in June. Interim staff were taken on by Kersten England under delegated powers.

Since the unlawful Lendal Bridge trial debacle erupted, Darren Richardson, Director of City & Environmental Services has resigned, and again Kersten England has appointed an interim on £700/day.

These are the tip of an iceberg, and there will be more controversial issues to follow.

I think you should do your homework, Bethany!


Summer holidays - no homework for a while! But thanks for the tip.

As for three senior staff leaving and the lendal bridge trial - it's been a poor run of late but hardly shambolic or a meltdown.

I agree with you regarding the huge day rates for these consultants that have been brought in! It is frankly absurd.
[quote]You obviously haven't been paying attention to controversial issues and senior staff changes which all point towards the meltdown. Social services is in turmoil. They have overspent by over £1m, and Assistant Directors Graham Terry and Kathy Clark resigned in June. Interim staff were taken on by Kersten England under delegated powers. Since the unlawful Lendal Bridge trial debacle erupted, Darren Richardson, Director of City & Environmental Services has resigned, and again Kersten England has appointed an interim on £700/day. These are the tip of an iceberg, and there will be more controversial issues to follow. I think you should do your homework, Bethany![/quote] Summer holidays - no homework for a while! But thanks for the tip. As for three senior staff leaving and the lendal bridge trial - it's been a poor run of late but hardly shambolic or a meltdown. I agree with you regarding the huge day rates for these consultants that have been brought in! It is frankly absurd. BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: 50

2:57pm Thu 17 Jul 14

TheTruthHurts says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
TheTruthHurts wrote:
Call me cynical but i have used these boards for too many years.

There is a new user today who is making a reasonably valid arguments and claiming to be a 17 year old girl.

Well girl this could be very complimentary in that you have a very wise head on your shoulders. You seem to know the ins and outs of the subjects that you are talking about and present them very well.

Personally (and no offence Beth) but i call Bull Droppings
Oh, sorry, should I dress in a miniskirt and drink vodka on park benches to fit in with your stereotype? Or maybe I should apologise for going to a fee paying school? Or being interested in politics? Or trying to use punctuation properly? Do I need to end every sentence with the words "in it" to make you happy? Don't be suck a c*ck.
Oh, sorry, should I dress in a miniskirt and drink vodka on park benches to fit in with your stereotype?


I didnt say any such thing.

Don't be suck a c*ck.


You have commented on an earlier thread about abusing people. Dont lower yourself.

My post was a backhanded compliment really.

All I am saying is that i dont believe that you are a 17 year old girl.

If (and it is an if) you are then i would say keep it up, ignore old sceptics like me, and you probably wont have to wait 10 years before you can afford a house :-)

All contributions are valuable on a local site like this but it cant be denied that this comments facility is abused. Equally its pretty tricky to prove too unless the press themselves start looking into their data........ Which strangely is something that they dont seem to want to do?
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheTruthHurts[/bold] wrote: Call me cynical but i have used these boards for too many years. There is a new user today who is making a reasonably valid arguments and claiming to be a 17 year old girl. Well girl this could be very complimentary in that you have a very wise head on your shoulders. You seem to know the ins and outs of the subjects that you are talking about and present them very well. Personally (and no offence Beth) but i call Bull Droppings[/p][/quote]Oh, sorry, should I dress in a miniskirt and drink vodka on park benches to fit in with your stereotype? Or maybe I should apologise for going to a fee paying school? Or being interested in politics? Or trying to use punctuation properly? Do I need to end every sentence with the words "in it" to make you happy? Don't be suck a c*ck.[/p][/quote][quote] Oh, sorry, should I dress in a miniskirt and drink vodka on park benches to fit in with your stereotype? [/quote] I didnt say any such thing. [quote] Don't be suck a c*ck. [/quote] You have commented on an earlier thread about abusing people. Dont lower yourself. My post was a backhanded compliment really. All I am saying is that i dont believe that you are a 17 year old girl. If (and it is an if) you are then i would say keep it up, ignore old sceptics like me, and you probably wont have to wait 10 years before you can afford a house :-) All contributions are valuable on a local site like this but it cant be denied that this comments facility is abused. Equally its pretty tricky to prove too unless the press themselves start looking into their data........ Which strangely is something that they dont seem to want to do? TheTruthHurts
  • Score: -43

3:06pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
Geoff Mulgan became Chief Executive of Nesta in June 2011. Under his leadership Nesta moved out of the public sector to become a charity. Mulgan was the founder of marxist think-tank Demos., and was CEO of the Young Foundation from 2004 to 2011, which has links to marxism. Mulgan wrote the Demos paper 'The Other Invisible Hand: Remaking Charities for the 21st Century' and wrote the book 'The Locust and The Bee'. His master plan is to kill the 'brutal, destructive, predatory' capitalism, and replace it with social enterprise.
Demos isn't marxist. Mulgan might be, bur Demos is cross party in so far as that's possible. As for capitalism, the current version we've got doesn't exactly work!
Sorry, it was when it was started by Mulgan and Martin Jacques (former editor of Marxism today) in 1993.

Also Common Purpose founder Julia Middleton was a trustee.

These are all marxist academics who seek to influence and exert control over social/public policy.

The capitalism model may not suit your relatively inexperienced world view, but, going down the other route is a slippery slope. Look up Joseph stalin, Pol Pot and Moa Tse Tung, to see what communism leads to...?!!!
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote]Geoff Mulgan became Chief Executive of Nesta in June 2011. Under his leadership Nesta moved out of the public sector to become a charity. Mulgan was the founder of marxist think-tank Demos., and was CEO of the Young Foundation from 2004 to 2011, which has links to marxism. Mulgan wrote the Demos paper 'The Other Invisible Hand: Remaking Charities for the 21st Century' and wrote the book 'The Locust and The Bee'. His master plan is to kill the 'brutal, destructive, predatory' capitalism, and replace it with social enterprise.[/quote] Demos isn't marxist. Mulgan might be, bur Demos is cross party in so far as that's possible. As for capitalism, the current version we've got doesn't exactly work![/p][/quote]Sorry, it was when it was started by Mulgan and Martin Jacques (former editor of Marxism today) in 1993. Also Common Purpose founder Julia Middleton was a trustee. These are all marxist academics who seek to influence and exert control over social/public policy. The capitalism model may not suit your relatively inexperienced world view, but, going down the other route is a slippery slope. Look up Joseph stalin, Pol Pot and Moa Tse Tung, to see what communism leads to...?!!! Badgers Drift
  • Score: -17

3:18pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

CaroleBaines wrote:
Badgers Drift wrote:
CaroleBaines wrote:
Badgers Drift wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.
Why is Nesta dubious? They receive lottery funding don't they and work closely with the current government? Seem to recall they were approached re the quietly dropped Big Society thing Cameron first championed when he came to power. Hardly fringe are they, even the Tories seem to approve so not sure what all the Marxist stuff comes from. Please explain.
Nesta was originally funded by a £250 million endowment from the UK National Lottery in 1998. Old NESTA was set up in 1998 by an independent endowment in the United Kingdom established by an Act of Parliament. On 14 October 2010 the Government announced that it would transfer old NESTA's status from an executive non-departmental public body to a new charitable body. On April 1, 2012 the old NESTA transitioned from being an executive to a charitable body, changing its name to Nesta, and dropping the long title. Nesta (formerly NESTA, National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts) is an independent charity that works to increase the innovation capacity of the UK. Geoff Mulgan became Chief Executive of Nesta in June 2011. Under his leadership Nesta moved out of the public sector to become a charity. Mulgan was the founder of marxist think-tank Demos., and was CEO of the Young Foundation from 2004 to 2011, which has links to marxism. Mulgan wrote the Demos paper 'The Other Invisible Hand: Remaking Charities for the 21st Century' and wrote the book 'The Locust and The Bee'. His master plan is to kill the 'brutal, destructive, predatory' capitalism, and replace it with social enterprise. Basically, Mulgan has hijacked Nesta, and changed it into a vehicle to push a marxist agenda. They are working (influencing) mainly with Local Government pushing initiatives mainly about social innovation. Kersten England is a trustee of Nesta, and york Council is being used as a guinea pig for many if Nesta's initiatives, including the rewiring and media city agendas. The extent of Nesta's associations with, and influence on York are frightening, and have been carefully kept mainly secret. This all needs to be investigated, and stopped, IMO.
Independent sources on the net say he has a first from Oxford, a PHD, a CBE and is assisting governments around the world including those (surely) capitalist regimes in Australia, United States and Japan! He also writes for the Independent. Nowhere does it say he's a charity hijacking, Council corrupting, Marxist. Are you saying you have evidence that someone who was at the heart of government is trying to bring down capitalism and presumably turning the UK into a North Korean style protectorate? Gosh! Good job you were here to save us all! Sorry, but....
Carole, you need to do more research on comrade Mulgan, and his associations.

He also advises China, which you conveniently missed?

In answer to your question, YES, Mulgan would bring down capitalism if he could!

Check out his speeches on youtube, and note that the ones he does in the UK (RSA etc), differ from those overseas, in that he doesn't use the full shamen and two bears metaphor. Check out this interview at Intervista Italy from July last year...

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=gYFKT16YZ
o0

Go to 1.53 for the piece about the metaphor (up to 2.40)
[quote][p][bold]CaroleBaines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CaroleBaines[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: The council's reputation is in tatters; * Unlawful fines (Lendal Bridge) * High Court action considered by ICO if CYC don't release FOI information they are unlawfully witholding and who wrongly branded an innocent York citizen as 'vexatious' * Wasted £600k on 20mph signage * Chief Executive conflict of interest by being a trustee of dubious charity Nesta * Profligate spending on vanity projects; 'reinvigorate' & 'rewinring' * Labour councillors deselections, defections and retirements in droves Those behind all of this; JA, DM, TSL & KE should all step down or be sacked, IMO.[/p][/quote]Why is Nesta dubious? They receive lottery funding don't they and work closely with the current government? Seem to recall they were approached re the quietly dropped Big Society thing Cameron first championed when he came to power. Hardly fringe are they, even the Tories seem to approve so not sure what all the Marxist stuff comes from. Please explain.[/p][/quote]Nesta was originally funded by a £250 million endowment from the UK National Lottery in 1998. Old NESTA was set up in 1998 by an independent endowment in the United Kingdom established by an Act of Parliament. On 14 October 2010 the Government announced that it would transfer old NESTA's status from an executive non-departmental public body to a new charitable body. On April 1, 2012 the old NESTA transitioned from being an executive to a charitable body, changing its name to Nesta, and dropping the long title. Nesta (formerly NESTA, National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts) is an independent charity that works to increase the innovation capacity of the UK. Geoff Mulgan became Chief Executive of Nesta in June 2011. Under his leadership Nesta moved out of the public sector to become a charity. Mulgan was the founder of marxist think-tank Demos., and was CEO of the Young Foundation from 2004 to 2011, which has links to marxism. Mulgan wrote the Demos paper 'The Other Invisible Hand: Remaking Charities for the 21st Century' and wrote the book 'The Locust and The Bee'. His master plan is to kill the 'brutal, destructive, predatory' capitalism, and replace it with social enterprise. Basically, Mulgan has hijacked Nesta, and changed it into a vehicle to push a marxist agenda. They are working (influencing) mainly with Local Government pushing initiatives mainly about social innovation. Kersten England is a trustee of Nesta, and york Council is being used as a guinea pig for many if Nesta's initiatives, including the rewiring and media city agendas. The extent of Nesta's associations with, and influence on York are frightening, and have been carefully kept mainly secret. This all needs to be investigated, and stopped, IMO.[/p][/quote]Independent sources on the net say he has a first from Oxford, a PHD, a CBE and is assisting governments around the world including those (surely) capitalist regimes in Australia, United States and Japan! He also writes for the Independent. Nowhere does it say he's a charity hijacking, Council corrupting, Marxist. Are you saying you have evidence that someone who was at the heart of government is trying to bring down capitalism and presumably turning the UK into a North Korean style protectorate? Gosh! Good job you were here to save us all! Sorry, but....[/p][/quote]Carole, you need to do more research on comrade Mulgan, and his associations. He also advises China, which you conveniently missed? In answer to your question, YES, Mulgan would bring down capitalism if he could! Check out his speeches on youtube, and note that the ones he does in the UK (RSA etc), differ from those overseas, in that he doesn't use the full shamen and two bears metaphor. Check out this interview at Intervista Italy from July last year... http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=gYFKT16YZ o0 Go to 1.53 for the piece about the metaphor (up to 2.40) Badgers Drift
  • Score: -66

3:32pm Thu 17 Jul 14

acomblass says...

It is high time Alexander and his cronies resigned. It will be interesting to see what the 4 Labour cllrs who have been sacked do tonight as their actions will speak louder than words - will they back Jimmy and put themselves and the Labour Party before the interests of the people of York?Meeting tonight at 6.30 pm in the Guildhall.
It is high time Alexander and his cronies resigned. It will be interesting to see what the 4 Labour cllrs who have been sacked do tonight as their actions will speak louder than words - will they back Jimmy and put themselves and the Labour Party before the interests of the people of York?Meeting tonight at 6.30 pm in the Guildhall. acomblass
  • Score: -12

3:33pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

meme wrote:
Deep down the real issue that gets me and others seems to be the lack of accountability and respect for the people of York who voted for them. They always think they are right and they are never prepared to admit they got it wrong and resort to refusing to answer questions rigging consultations or just blindly ploughing ahead because they think they know best. Christ we all make mistakes and most of us a re prepared to admit that but when you were warned in advance and refused to listen then you deserve to take a caning for that mistake. That's what going on here. If it was Merritt who pushed this through he should resign as he was warned. If it was Alexander so should he. Any reasonable person who had lost York's ratepayers some multiples of millions of pounds would do the honourable thing...lets face it they can go for re-election later and the public can decide but we all know it wont happen
You're right meme.

This is what happens when a council gets away with wholesale cheating over a period of time. They become pathological. Their confidence and arrogance increases to the point where they think they are invincible, and can get away with anything. Absolute power corrupts absolutely!

Someone you know, told you what they were like years ago, but, you didn't like the language used. They should have been curbed with straight-talking back then, but, were given more respect than they deserved, and they ignored the reasonable, politely-made requests and warnings. Now we can see exactly what they are and what their unchecked activities have led to....... ?!!!
[quote][p][bold]meme[/bold] wrote: Deep down the real issue that gets me and others seems to be the lack of accountability and respect for the people of York who voted for them. They always think they are right [as do I but I know I'm not!] and they are never prepared to admit they got it wrong and resort to refusing to answer questions [see FOI requests] rigging consultations or just blindly ploughing ahead because they think they know best. Christ we all make mistakes and most of us a re prepared to admit that but when you were warned in advance and refused to listen then you deserve to take a caning for that mistake. That's what going on here. If it was Merritt who pushed this through he should resign as he was warned. If it was Alexander so should he. Any reasonable person who had lost York's ratepayers some multiples of millions of pounds would do the honourable thing...lets face it they can go for re-election later and the public can decide but we all know it wont happen[/p][/quote]You're right meme. This is what happens when a council gets away with wholesale cheating over a period of time. They become pathological. Their confidence and arrogance increases to the point where they think they are invincible, and can get away with anything. Absolute power corrupts absolutely! Someone you know, told you what they were like years ago, but, you didn't like the language used. They should have been curbed with straight-talking back then, but, were given more respect than they deserved, and they ignored the reasonable, politely-made requests and warnings. Now we can see exactly what they are and what their unchecked activities have led to....... ?!!! Badgers Drift
  • Score: -70

3:39pm Thu 17 Jul 14

bolero says...

I'm among the `wishful thinkers` but unfortunately it won't happen. This is politics; we're talking dirty here.
I'm among the `wishful thinkers` but unfortunately it won't happen. This is politics; we're talking dirty here. bolero
  • Score: -55

3:49pm Thu 17 Jul 14

RingoStarr says...

This is all getting very boring. What we need is a comment from PiddlingPoor so we can all have a good laugh at it.
This is all getting very boring. What we need is a comment from PiddlingPoor so we can all have a good laugh at it. RingoStarr
  • Score: -35

3:50pm Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

Last one today, I promise!

Sorry, it was when it was started by Mulgan and Martin Jacques (former editor of Marxism today) in 1993.

Also Common Purpose founder Julia Middleton was a trustee.


A simple google search shows that Mulgan is pretty much establishment with some left and right wing views. You can't just lump everyone into a single box "Marxist" or whatever in order to ignore them or try to discount them. People don't work like that. Example: my dad likes hunting, evil tory, and also donates to food banks, evil socialist, supports the death penalty for some crimes, but thinks current cuts to legal aid are foolish. You can't just box people up and then talk nonsense about them.

These are all marxist academics who seek to influence and exert control over social/public policy.


Goodness me. Academics and think tanks trying to control or exert public thinking. Good heavens. Clearly we should only listen to Centre for Policy Studies. Begone those evil think-tanks that challenge group-think and current elite-economists and government thinking about the economy!

The capitalism model may not suit your relatively inexperienced world view, but, going down the other route is a slippery slope. Look up Joseph stalin, Pol Pot and Moa Tse Tung, to see what communism leads to...?!!!


So in your highly experienced worldview the choice is between neoliberal capitalism or authoritarian communism, with anything remotely leftist being described as marxist and therefore must be communist and ending up in killing fields of Cambodia.

Ah, my mistake. Into which of these models do the capitalist models of Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Japan, Greece, New Zealand, Jamaica, Cuba, Russia, Argentina, South Africa, Brazil, India and Nigeria fit?

http://anotherangryv
oice.blogspot.co.uk/
2011/09/mixed-econom
y-vs-neoliberalism-u
k.html Here's a really good beginning to study the mixed UK economy after World War 2 compared with what we have now. Lots of informative links there to other in-depth articles.

I believe in relatively free markets and to an extent free movement of capita, subject to democratic control. The economy we have now is neither a very good market, nor very democratic, but it is certainly very free and there are lots of very rich bankers around and lots of very poor people using food banks.

Are you sure there's no in between way to go between your dichotomy? No mixed or social market economic model? I believe there is. This is probably about it: http://policy.greenp
arty.org.uk/ec.html. And no, it's not Marxist or written by Pol Pot!
Last one today, I promise! [quote]Sorry, it was when it was started by Mulgan and Martin Jacques (former editor of Marxism today) in 1993. Also Common Purpose founder Julia Middleton was a trustee.[/quote] A simple google search shows that Mulgan is pretty much establishment with some left and right wing views. You can't just lump everyone into a single box "Marxist" or whatever in order to ignore them or try to discount them. People don't work like that. Example: my dad likes hunting, evil tory, and also donates to food banks, evil socialist, supports the death penalty for some crimes, but thinks current cuts to legal aid are foolish. You can't just box people up and then talk nonsense about them. [quote]These are all marxist academics who seek to influence and exert control over social/public policy.[/quote] Goodness me. Academics and think tanks trying to control or exert public thinking. Good heavens. Clearly we should only listen to Centre for Policy Studies. Begone those evil think-tanks that challenge group-think and current elite-economists and government thinking about the economy! [quote]The capitalism model may not suit your relatively inexperienced world view, but, going down the other route is a slippery slope. Look up Joseph stalin, Pol Pot and Moa Tse Tung, to see what communism leads to...?!!![/quote] So in your highly experienced worldview the choice is between neoliberal capitalism or authoritarian communism, with anything remotely leftist being described as marxist and therefore must be communist and ending up in killing fields of Cambodia. Ah, my mistake. Into which of these models do the capitalist models of Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Japan, Greece, New Zealand, Jamaica, Cuba, Russia, Argentina, South Africa, Brazil, India and Nigeria fit? http://anotherangryv oice.blogspot.co.uk/ 2011/09/mixed-econom y-vs-neoliberalism-u k.html Here's a really good beginning to study the mixed UK economy after World War 2 compared with what we have now. Lots of informative links there to other in-depth articles. I believe in relatively free markets and to an extent free movement of capita, subject to democratic control. The economy we have now is neither a very good market, nor very democratic, but it is certainly very free and there are lots of very rich bankers around and lots of very poor people using food banks. Are you sure there's no in between way to go between your dichotomy? No mixed or social market economic model? I believe there is. This is probably about it: http://policy.greenp arty.org.uk/ec.html. And no, it's not Marxist or written by Pol Pot! BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: 58

4:00pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
Last one today, I promise!
Sorry, it was when it was started by Mulgan and Martin Jacques (former editor of Marxism today) in 1993. Also Common Purpose founder Julia Middleton was a trustee.
A simple google search shows that Mulgan is pretty much establishment with some left and right wing views. You can't just lump everyone into a single box "Marxist" or whatever in order to ignore them or try to discount them. People don't work like that. Example: my dad likes hunting, evil tory, and also donates to food banks, evil socialist, supports the death penalty for some crimes, but thinks current cuts to legal aid are foolish. You can't just box people up and then talk nonsense about them.
These are all marxist academics who seek to influence and exert control over social/public policy.
Goodness me. Academics and think tanks trying to control or exert public thinking. Good heavens. Clearly we should only listen to Centre for Policy Studies. Begone those evil think-tanks that challenge group-think and current elite-economists and government thinking about the economy!
The capitalism model may not suit your relatively inexperienced world view, but, going down the other route is a slippery slope. Look up Joseph stalin, Pol Pot and Moa Tse Tung, to see what communism leads to...?!!!
So in your highly experienced worldview the choice is between neoliberal capitalism or authoritarian communism, with anything remotely leftist being described as marxist and therefore must be communist and ending up in killing fields of Cambodia. Ah, my mistake. Into which of these models do the capitalist models of Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Japan, Greece, New Zealand, Jamaica, Cuba, Russia, Argentina, South Africa, Brazil, India and Nigeria fit? http://anotherangryv oice.blogspot.co.uk/ 2011/09/mixed-econom y-vs-neoliberalism-u k.html Here's a really good beginning to study the mixed UK economy after World War 2 compared with what we have now. Lots of informative links there to other in-depth articles. I believe in relatively free markets and to an extent free movement of capita, subject to democratic control. The economy we have now is neither a very good market, nor very democratic, but it is certainly very free and there are lots of very rich bankers around and lots of very poor people using food banks. Are you sure there's no in between way to go between your dichotomy? No mixed or social market economic model? I believe there is. This is probably about it: http://policy.greenp arty.org.uk/ec.html. And no, it's not Marxist or written by Pol Pot!
You're just confused.com, and confusing lots of issues - it's called obfuscation - politicians do it all the time, when they are on the back foot and trying to distract attention.

Get you're A-levels, go to Uni and read PPE or Political Science or whatever, then come back with a brief precis of what you've learnt.

Stop wasting people's time on here with all your ramblings. It's boring!
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: Last one today, I promise! [quote]Sorry, it was when it was started by Mulgan and Martin Jacques (former editor of Marxism today) in 1993. Also Common Purpose founder Julia Middleton was a trustee.[/quote] A simple google search shows that Mulgan is pretty much establishment with some left and right wing views. You can't just lump everyone into a single box "Marxist" or whatever in order to ignore them or try to discount them. People don't work like that. Example: my dad likes hunting, evil tory, and also donates to food banks, evil socialist, supports the death penalty for some crimes, but thinks current cuts to legal aid are foolish. You can't just box people up and then talk nonsense about them. [quote]These are all marxist academics who seek to influence and exert control over social/public policy.[/quote] Goodness me. Academics and think tanks trying to control or exert public thinking. Good heavens. Clearly we should only listen to Centre for Policy Studies. Begone those evil think-tanks that challenge group-think and current elite-economists and government thinking about the economy! [quote]The capitalism model may not suit your relatively inexperienced world view, but, going down the other route is a slippery slope. Look up Joseph stalin, Pol Pot and Moa Tse Tung, to see what communism leads to...?!!![/quote] So in your highly experienced worldview the choice is between neoliberal capitalism or authoritarian communism, with anything remotely leftist being described as marxist and therefore must be communist and ending up in killing fields of Cambodia. Ah, my mistake. Into which of these models do the capitalist models of Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Japan, Greece, New Zealand, Jamaica, Cuba, Russia, Argentina, South Africa, Brazil, India and Nigeria fit? http://anotherangryv oice.blogspot.co.uk/ 2011/09/mixed-econom y-vs-neoliberalism-u k.html Here's a really good beginning to study the mixed UK economy after World War 2 compared with what we have now. Lots of informative links there to other in-depth articles. I believe in relatively free markets and to an extent free movement of capita, subject to democratic control. The economy we have now is neither a very good market, nor very democratic, but it is certainly very free and there are lots of very rich bankers around and lots of very poor people using food banks. Are you sure there's no in between way to go between your dichotomy? No mixed or social market economic model? I believe there is. This is probably about it: http://policy.greenp arty.org.uk/ec.html. And no, it's not Marxist or written by Pol Pot![/p][/quote]You're just confused.com, and confusing lots of issues - it's called obfuscation - politicians do it all the time, when they are on the back foot and trying to distract attention. Get you're A-levels, go to Uni and read PPE or Political Science or whatever, then come back with a brief precis of what you've learnt. Stop wasting people's time on here with all your ramblings. It's boring! Badgers Drift
  • Score: -15

4:03pm Thu 17 Jul 14

BethFoxhunter96 says...

You're just confused.com, and confusing lots of issues - it's called obfuscation - politicians do it all the time, when they are on the back foot and trying to distract attention.

Get you're A-levels, go to Uni and read PPE or Political Science or whatever, then come back with a brief precis of what you've learnt.

Stop wasting people's time on here with all your ramblings. It's boring!


Thanks for trying, but with an answer like that maybe Bebo or facebook's more your level.

Game, set and match to the Fox!
[quote]You're just confused.com, and confusing lots of issues - it's called obfuscation - politicians do it all the time, when they are on the back foot and trying to distract attention. Get you're A-levels, go to Uni and read PPE or Political Science or whatever, then come back with a brief precis of what you've learnt. Stop wasting people's time on here with all your ramblings. It's boring![/quote] Thanks for trying, but with an answer like that maybe Bebo or facebook's more your level. Game, set and match to the Fox! BethFoxhunter96
  • Score: 59

4:17pm Thu 17 Jul 14

mutley12321 says...

Evening all.

Slightly off topic, whilst I’d suggest Messrs Merritt and Alexander should indeed resign for incompetence, deceitfulness and mismanagement of the Lendal Bridge saga; I’m more concerned with who’d replace them. I’m not sure of any local Labour councillor who has shown themselves competent to run the council*.

Ms England seems to be embarrassed – hence her continued silence on the matter?

Nice weather again though, anyone fancy a pint? I’m working until 7 but free after.

Regards

Mutt.

*Feel free to insert your own gag here, “none of them ever were” etc and so on.
Evening all. Slightly off topic, whilst I’d suggest Messrs Merritt and Alexander should indeed resign for incompetence, deceitfulness and mismanagement of the Lendal Bridge saga; I’m more concerned with who’d replace them. I’m not sure of any local Labour councillor who has shown themselves competent to run the council*. Ms England seems to be embarrassed – hence her continued silence on the matter? Nice weather again though, anyone fancy a pint? I’m working until 7 but free after. Regards Mutt. *Feel free to insert your own gag here, “none of them ever were” etc and so on. mutley12321
  • Score: -54

4:30pm Thu 17 Jul 14

piaggio1 says...

Oh look ...a uni student has bin nominated for the micklgate ward..?
My what a suprise.....another yes man/ lad./ bairn. !!!!! Whatever...
Oh look ...a uni student has bin nominated for the micklgate ward..? My what a suprise.....another yes man/ lad./ bairn. !!!!! Whatever... piaggio1
  • Score: -60

4:54pm Thu 17 Jul 14

jay, york says...

Buzzz Light-year wrote:
I will look forward to Friday mornings Press website with the good news that York can finally start to rebuild its international reputation that these individuals have done so much damage to in such a short space of time
More hyperbole. For heavens sake, why can't people keep themselves in check? Why do they need to get all Walter Mitty over every little thing? How about stick to the facts? Facts which are damaging enough without "You all saw him, he had a gun!" The council's reputation is damaged. Local Labour's rep is damaged. The city of York is doing well and remains unaffected internationally by the local fuss over a few yards of river crossing. Anyone would think we've been launching airstrikes.
You talk of part of Yorks inner ring road as a few yards of river crossing. That shows how little comprehension of the situation youu have - and how much arrogance, contempt and disrespect your lot have of the City of York and its resiedents and visitors alike. No wonder LB was such a disaster - it was doomed from the start.

Oh, and I can totally and absolutely assure you that nobody would ever think you have been launching airstrikes, when you do not even appear to be competent in what you are actually paid to do.
[quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: [quote]I will look forward to Friday mornings Press website with the good news that York can finally start to rebuild its international reputation that these individuals have done so much damage to in such a short space of time[/quote] More hyperbole. For heavens sake, why can't people keep themselves in check? Why do they need to get all Walter Mitty over every little thing? How about stick to the facts? Facts which are damaging enough without "You all saw him, he had a gun!" The council's reputation is damaged. Local Labour's rep is damaged. The city of York is doing well and remains unaffected internationally by the local fuss over a few yards of river crossing. Anyone would think we've been launching airstrikes.[/p][/quote]You talk of part of Yorks inner ring road as a few yards of river crossing. That shows how little comprehension of the situation youu have - and how much arrogance, contempt and disrespect your lot have of the City of York and its resiedents and visitors alike. No wonder LB was such a disaster - it was doomed from the start. Oh, and I can totally and absolutely assure you that nobody would ever think you have been launching airstrikes, when you do not even appear to be competent in what you are actually paid to do. jay, york
  • Score: -60

5:40pm Thu 17 Jul 14

notpedallingpaul says...

The Great Buda wrote:
Have to agree.

Its the only way to save your party now Jimmy, Time to fall on your sword.
Have to laugh at this one, very subtlety put, priceless.
[quote][p][bold]The Great Buda[/bold] wrote: Have to agree. Its the only way to save your party now Jimmy, Time to fall on your sword.[/p][/quote]Have to laugh at this one, very subtlety put, priceless. notpedallingpaul
  • Score: -17

5:40pm Thu 17 Jul 14

courier46 says...

Alexander says it`s political ,it`s not only political, the people of York don't want you , or Mr Merrett as well as 3 or 4 others in your team.
We have had enough of your crazy schemes and non listening attitude so GO now!!!!!!!!
Alexander says it`s political ,it`s not only political, the people of York don't want you , or Mr Merrett as well as 3 or 4 others in your team. We have had enough of your crazy schemes and non listening attitude so GO now!!!!!!!! courier46
  • Score: -57

6:35pm Thu 17 Jul 14

courier46 says...

Jackanory2 wrote:
Its all well and good getting rid of this council (which I agree with), but is there any one better to replace them, the last lot before these were a nightmare also.

"The fact some one wants to be a councillor should bar them from being a councillor" as the saying goes.
Not better just nowhere near as bad
[quote][p][bold]Jackanory2[/bold] wrote: Its all well and good getting rid of this council (which I agree with), but is there any one better to replace them, the last lot before these were a nightmare also. "The fact some one wants to be a councillor should bar them from being a councillor" as the saying goes.[/p][/quote]Not better just nowhere near as bad courier46
  • Score: -59

6:49pm Thu 17 Jul 14

eeoodares says...

BethFoxhunter96 wrote:
If a speed limit is being imposed by the Council, the Police will not enforce or support it, and it fails to slow traffic....the Council then expand the failed scheme... Most people would call that foolish, you seem to think of it as 'maverick'.


I do. And I also believe they are correct. It is not a "failed scheme" because the police don't enforce it, or because you don't like it. It will only be a failed scheme if people don't slow down. I believe the roads will be better and more friendly because of the 20 mph limits.

You may not think that it is important for a political organisation to be able to balance its books I think that it is extremely important. However, you sound like a deep-red Labour follower so you will remember.... a stark message left in a Treasury desk, by outgoing Labour chief secretary to the Treasury Liam Byrne wrote simply: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left.' ... But you seem to think that was OK...You probably see him as a Maverick!


Please do not twist my words. Of course it is important to balance the books. However, you made a point that "if this was business, they'd be sacked" or something. That is a point about governance, not about finance. I do not want the Council to run as a business, which in reality is accountable only to shareholders and has one goal to make profit. I want a Council to be run by local people who are councillors with a focus on services. That is the difference between a business and a Council.

The traffic regulations in York were fatally flawed from day one and highlighted as not legally enforceable shortly later... This means that people were unlawfully fined, the council will not admit it was unlawful but will had back Taxpayers money anyway.... So either the Council is withholding peoples money with no legitimate right to it, or it is giving away money that it does not have any legitimate right redistribute....But you would call that Maverick.


You don't half skip around in your arguments. There are lots of points here and they have all been rehearsed several times so I'm not going to recap. Suffice to say it is a daft national situation for anyone (CYC/public) to be in where the only possibly route to determine legality is by appealing, and where drivers who pay the fine which is later held to be wrong have no legal recourse to claim their money back. CYC by offering a refund are going beyond their legal obligations here. It is a shame that the legal obligations and moral obligations are not aligned, but as said that is due to the national framework, not CYC's implementation.

If you can not see the time has come for these people to go, then only one conclusion can be drawn....YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM!


Please do not take this line of argument with me. I am a 17 year old school girl with no interest in joining labour or any of the "big four" parties (tory, liberals, ukip, labour). I do believe the time for them to "go" has come. But not in the bizarre and haphazard way you want them to go. Thank you. Bethany,
If you are still a minor, well done for showing some political interest.

But if you really can not understand what this group of single vision fanatics are doing, then I see no point in continuing the conversation. Please feel free to read my earlier reply to you in full, rather than the edited clips you choose, then perhaps you will grasp the issue.

Incidentally is UKIP a major party in UK National or Local Government? Or are they key influencers like Militant Tendency once were or The Greens are now?
[quote][p][bold]BethFoxhunter96[/bold] wrote: [quote]If a speed limit is being imposed by the Council, the Police will not enforce or support it, and it fails to slow traffic....the Council then expand the failed scheme... Most people would call that foolish, you seem to think of it as 'maverick'.[/quote] I do. And I also believe they are correct. It is not a "failed scheme" because the police don't enforce it, or because you don't like it. It will only be a failed scheme if people don't slow down. I believe the roads will be better and more friendly because of the 20 mph limits. [quote]You may not think that it is important for a political organisation to be able to balance its books I think that it is extremely important. However, you sound like a deep-red Labour follower so you will remember.... a stark message left in a Treasury desk, by outgoing Labour chief secretary to the Treasury Liam Byrne wrote simply: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left.' ... But you seem to think that was OK...You probably see him as a Maverick![/quote] Please do not twist my words. Of course it is important to balance the books. However, you made a point that "if this was business, they'd be sacked" or something. That is a point about governance, not about finance. I do not want the Council to run as a business, which in reality is accountable only to shareholders and has one goal to make profit. I want a Council to be run by local people who are councillors with a focus on services. That is the difference between a business and a Council. [quote]The traffic regulations in York were fatally flawed from day one and highlighted as not legally enforceable shortly later... This means that people were unlawfully fined, the council will not admit it was unlawful but will had back Taxpayers money anyway.... So either the Council is withholding peoples money with no legitimate right to it, or it is giving away money that it does not have any legitimate right redistribute....But you would call that Maverick.[/quote] You don't half skip around in your arguments. There are lots of points here and they have all been rehearsed several times so I'm not going to recap. Suffice to say it is a daft national situation for anyone (CYC/public) to be in where the only possibly route to determine legality is by appealing, and where drivers who pay the fine which is later held to be wrong have no legal recourse to claim their money back. CYC by offering a refund are going beyond their legal obligations here. It is a shame that the legal obligations and moral obligations are not aligned, but as said that is due to the national framework, not CYC's implementation. [quote]If you can not see the time has come for these people to go, then only one conclusion can be drawn....YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM![/quote] Please do not take this line of argument with me. I am a 17 year old school girl with no interest in joining labour or any of the "big four" parties (tory, liberals, ukip, labour). I do believe the time for them to "go" has come. But not in the bizarre and haphazard way you want them to go. Thank you. Bethany,[/p][/quote]If you are still a minor, well done for showing some political interest. But if you really can not understand what this group of single vision fanatics are doing, then I see no point in continuing the conversation. Please feel free to read my earlier reply to you in full, rather than the edited clips you choose, then perhaps you will grasp the issue. Incidentally is UKIP a major party in UK National or Local Government? Or are they key influencers like Militant Tendency once were or The Greens are now? eeoodares
  • Score: -29

7:02pm Thu 17 Jul 14

RingoStarr says...

eeoodares...stop chatting up young girls!
eeoodares...stop chatting up young girls! RingoStarr
  • Score: -14

7:16pm Thu 17 Jul 14

pedalling paul says...

I still don't see anyone who is prepared to grasp the nettle and tell us how else to prevent Carmageddon by the 2030's.
We have only stabilised peak traffic levels temporarily. York faces future travel growth, and the City simply doesn't have the road capacity to accommodate that - and never will.
So let's turn the debate away from Council bashing. Labour took a bold step which was well worth trialling. We don't have time to vacillate and point score. There is a transport time bomb ticking away beneath York, that needs to be defused, sooner rather than later. Hopefully the Congestion Commission will have sufficient b***s to take firm action.
I still don't see anyone who is prepared to grasp the nettle and tell us how else to prevent Carmageddon by the 2030's. We have only stabilised peak traffic levels temporarily. York faces future travel growth, and the City simply doesn't have the road capacity to accommodate that - and never will. So let's turn the debate away from Council bashing. Labour took a bold step which was well worth trialling. We don't have time to vacillate and point score. There is a transport time bomb ticking away beneath York, that needs to be defused, sooner rather than later. Hopefully the Congestion Commission will have sufficient b***s to take firm action. pedalling paul
  • Score: -34

7:25pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Cheeky face says...

Resigning over Lendal Bridge is only part of the problem. They said they would sort out Coppergate, which they and TSL said others (before them)failed to do. Coppergate is arguably just as much the leader and chief exec's failing.
If Coppergate is OK why have the stopped PCNs?

They are advised to get out or apologise; and reply to questions however challenging!

James e-mailed me in Feb 2014 and promised to be open and honest and get me answers to my questions which started in Aug 2013.
To date no sensible response and nothing following my last 7 questions sent on 4.6.2014. Ombudsman would not help me; but FOI may do the trick.
Resigning over Lendal Bridge is only part of the problem. They said they would sort out Coppergate, which they and TSL said others (before them)failed to do. Coppergate is arguably just as much the leader and chief exec's failing. If Coppergate is OK why have the stopped PCNs? They are advised to get out or apologise; and reply to questions however challenging! James e-mailed me in Feb 2014 and promised to be open and honest and get me answers to my questions which started in Aug 2013. To date no sensible response and nothing following my last 7 questions sent on 4.6.2014. Ombudsman would not help me; but FOI may do the trick. Cheeky face
  • Score: -95

7:32pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Cheeky face says...

Pedalling Paul,

Partly agreed but the subject is resignations and/the accused's failings.

(Sorting out traffic congestion needs the cross party group to get started; by looking at reducing some P and R tariffs, converting traffic lights to peak time, better signage round the Barbican area, and other initiatives. The council should be sorting it out; with our help. They should start the ball rolling).
Pedalling Paul, Partly agreed but the subject is resignations and/the accused's failings. (Sorting out traffic congestion needs the cross party group to get started; by looking at reducing some P and R tariffs, converting traffic lights to peak time, better signage round the Barbican area, and other initiatives. The council should be sorting it out; with our help. They should start the ball rolling). Cheeky face
  • Score: -30

7:52pm Thu 17 Jul 14

courier46 says...

pedalling paul wrote:
I still don't see anyone who is prepared to grasp the nettle and tell us how else to prevent Carmageddon by the 2030's.
We have only stabilised peak traffic levels temporarily. York faces future travel growth, and the City simply doesn't have the road capacity to accommodate that - and never will.
So let's turn the debate away from Council bashing. Labour took a bold step which was well worth trialling. We don't have time to vacillate and point score. There is a transport time bomb ticking away beneath York, that needs to be defused, sooner rather than later. Hopefully the Congestion Commission will have sufficient b***s to take firm action.
You build 22,000 houses that should stop traffic Der!
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: I still don't see anyone who is prepared to grasp the nettle and tell us how else to prevent Carmageddon by the 2030's. We have only stabilised peak traffic levels temporarily. York faces future travel growth, and the City simply doesn't have the road capacity to accommodate that - and never will. So let's turn the debate away from Council bashing. Labour took a bold step which was well worth trialling. We don't have time to vacillate and point score. There is a transport time bomb ticking away beneath York, that needs to be defused, sooner rather than later. Hopefully the Congestion Commission will have sufficient b***s to take firm action.[/p][/quote]You build 22,000 houses that should stop traffic Der! courier46
  • Score: -46

8:18pm Thu 17 Jul 14

pedalling paul says...

Just watching the full Council Meeting on the "Webcast". I initially tried to find it by searching for "Podcast" & got nowhere.......
Just watching the full Council Meeting on the "Webcast". I initially tried to find it by searching for "Podcast" & got nowhere....... pedalling paul
  • Score: 75

8:54pm Thu 17 Jul 14

JasBro says...

pedalling paul wrote:
I still don't see anyone who is prepared to grasp the nettle and tell us how else to prevent Carmageddon by the 2030's.
We have only stabilised peak traffic levels temporarily. York faces future travel growth, and the City simply doesn't have the road capacity to accommodate that - and never will.
So let's turn the debate away from Council bashing. Labour took a bold step which was well worth trialling. We don't have time to vacillate and point score. There is a transport time bomb ticking away beneath York, that needs to be defused, sooner rather than later. Hopefully the Congestion Commission will have sufficient b***s to take firm action.
As I'm sure you know, the price for stabilising traffic levels has been an increase in congestion, and more importantly an increase in air pollution of up to 48%. What is the point of stabilising traffic levels if the worst effects of traffic are actually increased? It doesn't make any sense at all.

I think we all know that measures need to be taken, but the last decade of ineffective or worse still, damaging policies have made the situation worse, not better. Though the efforts have been well meaning, the measurable statistical effects have all been negative. You know this as well as anybody.

The Lendal Bridge trial was not mentioned in the Labour party manifesto, so it was dishonest from the start. It had little support, and channeled much more traffic through residential areas, some of which were already classed as having unacceptable air pollution levels. Perhaps I should also mention the illegally levied fines.

There are places that have started to approach things differently, they've started to realise that radical approaches are necessary. Just search for anything involving getting rid of traffic lights or shared road spaces, both have been used very successfully with good results, like reducing congestion and pollution, and even encouraging more consideration for cyclists and pedestrians.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd be quite happy to have the centre of York completely pedestrianised. But we have to accept that people use cars, so we have to leave the inner ring road open, there's no other practical way around the city centre.

Most importantly, for me at least, is that we seem to be creating an antagonist approach, we seem to be creating a toxic atmosphere between road users. We can't carry on like that, we need a city wide consultation on the best way forward . We can't just leave it to the politicians.

We all need to decide the best way forward, that's how democracy should work.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: I still don't see anyone who is prepared to grasp the nettle and tell us how else to prevent Carmageddon by the 2030's. We have only stabilised peak traffic levels temporarily. York faces future travel growth, and the City simply doesn't have the road capacity to accommodate that - and never will. So let's turn the debate away from Council bashing. Labour took a bold step which was well worth trialling. We don't have time to vacillate and point score. There is a transport time bomb ticking away beneath York, that needs to be defused, sooner rather than later. Hopefully the Congestion Commission will have sufficient b***s to take firm action.[/p][/quote]As I'm sure you know, the price for stabilising traffic levels has been an increase in congestion, and more importantly an increase in air pollution of up to 48%. What is the point of stabilising traffic levels if the worst effects of traffic are actually increased? It doesn't make any sense at all. I think we all know that measures need to be taken, but the last decade of ineffective or worse still, damaging policies have made the situation worse, not better. Though the efforts have been well meaning, the measurable statistical effects have all been negative. You know this as well as anybody. The Lendal Bridge trial was not mentioned in the Labour party manifesto, so it was dishonest from the start. It had little support, and channeled much more traffic through residential areas, some of which were already classed as having unacceptable air pollution levels. Perhaps I should also mention the illegally levied fines. There are places that have started to approach things differently, they've started to realise that radical approaches are necessary. Just search for anything involving getting rid of traffic lights or shared road spaces, both have been used very successfully with good results, like reducing congestion and pollution, and even encouraging more consideration for cyclists and pedestrians. As far as I'm concerned, I'd be quite happy to have the centre of York completely pedestrianised. But we have to accept that people use cars, so we have to leave the inner ring road open, there's no other practical way around the city centre. Most importantly, for me at least, is that we seem to be creating an antagonist approach, we seem to be creating a toxic atmosphere between road users. We can't carry on like that, we need a city wide consultation on the best way forward . We can't just leave it to the politicians. We all need to decide the best way forward, that's how democracy should work. JasBro
  • Score: -47

8:56pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

jay, york wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
I will look forward to Friday mornings Press website with the good news that York can finally start to rebuild its international reputation that these individuals have done so much damage to in such a short space of time
More hyperbole. For heavens sake, why can't people keep themselves in check? Why do they need to get all Walter Mitty over every little thing? How about stick to the facts? Facts which are damaging enough without "You all saw him, he had a gun!" The council's reputation is damaged. Local Labour's rep is damaged. The city of York is doing well and remains unaffected internationally by the local fuss over a few yards of river crossing. Anyone would think we've been launching airstrikes.
You talk of part of Yorks inner ring road as a few yards of river crossing. That shows how little comprehension of the situation youu have - and how much arrogance, contempt and disrespect your lot have of the City of York and its resiedents and visitors alike. No wonder LB was such a disaster - it was doomed from the start.

Oh, and I can totally and absolutely assure you that nobody would ever think you have been launching airstrikes, when you do not even appear to be competent in what you are actually paid to do.
No it doesn't show that at all.
It shows how happy some people are to throw their arms up like stroppy teenagers and ignore plain English as written in front of their noses.
You for example. You're happy to presume my stance, my knowledge and it seems my job and political allegiance.

Divide and conquer my friend.

Yep, I said "a few yards of river crossing" and yep, that's what it is.
And yep, closing ANY river bridge to most traffic in York is total folly and an insult to the engineers who came up with the solution to our river crossing problems. As I've said many times before as it happens.

I used that phrase to highlight the context. To remind people what we are talking about.
There was a bridge closure trial. The bridge was a few yards. It failed, now it's open again. York as a living breathing city remains absolutely unaffected by that. All the people here wailing about the "destruction of York" are wrong in their hysterics.
The ruling council on the other hand, and by association their party, have suffered major credibility setbacks and are looking near to destruction.

If you read my original post again you'll see my point - York is not its council any more than I am the clothes I wear or the car I drive. York is well, despite the wailings of the unhinged.

Now, for the second time today and on the second thread - this is important. Who are "my lot?"
Don't you ever accuse me of being incompetent in what I am paid to do. I'm very good at my job and always have been.
Don't ever use your lack of understanding and ease of jumping to baseless conclusions to talk crap about me and my professional life.
It's important to differentiate between someone's opinion and their presumed allegiances.
When I said I was against the invasion of Iraq, it did not mean I was a member of the Iraqi Elite Guard, so why does asking for some perspective here on this website make me JA's right hand man?

I guess at least by doing that you helped verify my point. Cheers.
[quote][p][bold]jay, york[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: [quote]I will look forward to Friday mornings Press website with the good news that York can finally start to rebuild its international reputation that these individuals have done so much damage to in such a short space of time[/quote] More hyperbole. For heavens sake, why can't people keep themselves in check? Why do they need to get all Walter Mitty over every little thing? How about stick to the facts? Facts which are damaging enough without "You all saw him, he had a gun!" The council's reputation is damaged. Local Labour's rep is damaged. The city of York is doing well and remains unaffected internationally by the local fuss over a few yards of river crossing. Anyone would think we've been launching airstrikes.[/p][/quote]You talk of part of Yorks inner ring road as a few yards of river crossing. That shows how little comprehension of the situation youu have - and how much arrogance, contempt and disrespect your lot have of the City of York and its resiedents and visitors alike. No wonder LB was such a disaster - it was doomed from the start. Oh, and I can totally and absolutely assure you that nobody would ever think you have been launching airstrikes, when you do not even appear to be competent in what you are actually paid to do.[/p][/quote]No it doesn't show that at all. It shows how happy some people are to throw their arms up like stroppy teenagers and ignore plain English as written in front of their noses. You for example. You're happy to presume my stance, my knowledge and it seems my job and political allegiance. Divide and conquer my friend. Yep, I said "a few yards of river crossing" and yep, that's what it is. And yep, closing ANY river bridge to most traffic in York is total folly and an insult to the engineers who came up with the solution to our river crossing problems. As I've said many times before as it happens. I used that phrase to highlight the context. To remind people what we are talking about. There was a bridge closure trial. The bridge was a few yards. It failed, now it's open again. York as a living breathing city remains absolutely unaffected by that. All the people here wailing about the "destruction of York" are wrong in their hysterics. The ruling council on the other hand, and by association their party, have suffered major credibility setbacks and are looking near to destruction. If you read my original post again you'll see my point - York is not its council any more than I am the clothes I wear or the car I drive. York is well, despite the wailings of the unhinged. Now, for the second time today and on the second thread - this is important. Who are "my lot?" Don't you ever accuse me of being incompetent in what I am paid to do. I'm very good at my job and always have been. Don't ever use your lack of understanding and ease of jumping to baseless conclusions to talk crap about me and my professional life. It's important to differentiate between someone's opinion and their presumed allegiances. When I said I was against the invasion of Iraq, it did not mean I was a member of the Iraqi Elite Guard, so why does asking for some perspective here on this website make me JA's right hand man? I guess at least by doing that you helped verify my point. Cheers. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 49

9:08pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

BethFoxHunter96 wrote about Badgers Drift:
You can't just lump everyone into a single box "Marxist" or whatever in order to ignore them or try to discount them

Yes well I have news for you BethFox.
Actually Badgers Drift can and does. He is the King of Dichotomy. He is the living spirit of McCarthyism. You're either with him or you're *one of them* and *they* are "suspect" and *they* need "to be stopped"

I know it's crazy and wrong but he won't give up.
[quote]BethFoxHunter96 wrote about Badgers Drift: You can't just lump everyone into a single box "Marxist" or whatever in order to ignore them or try to discount them[/quote] Yes well I have news for you BethFox. Actually Badgers Drift can and does. He is the King of Dichotomy. He is the living spirit of McCarthyism. You're either with him or you're *one of them* and *they* are "suspect" and *they* need "to be stopped" I know it's crazy and wrong but he won't give up. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 61

9:12pm Thu 17 Jul 14

pedalling paul says...

Still glued to the webcast........not yet reached the "crunch" items at the end of the Agenda.
Still glued to the webcast........not yet reached the "crunch" items at the end of the Agenda. pedalling paul
  • Score: 61

9:20pm Thu 17 Jul 14

piaggio1 says...

Just ask england bout a er....holiday......?

You.d be amazed where she stayed before going.?????. As in very early train.??????????????
????????
Just ask england bout a er....holiday......? You.d be amazed where she stayed before going.?????. As in very early train.?????????????? ???????? piaggio1
  • Score: -26

9:25pm Thu 17 Jul 14

piaggio1 says...

Oooooops!!!
They are takin us for mugs........all of em...
Is she any relation to lesley hinds????
Edinboros liebour leader...and ...nuff said.
Bye..scooter rally this wk end ..rotterdam .nice beer...........
Oooooops!!! They are takin us for mugs........all of em... Is she any relation to lesley hinds???? Edinboros liebour leader...and ...nuff said. Bye..scooter rally this wk end ..rotterdam .nice beer........... piaggio1
  • Score: -30

9:44pm Thu 17 Jul 14

wak says...

if they don't repay these in 2 weeks time can we ask them to pay £60, the way they did when they issued the fine???..
if they don't repay these in 2 weeks time can we ask them to pay £60, the way they did when they issued the fine???.. wak
  • Score: -20

9:45pm Thu 17 Jul 14

farmerpalmer says...

Hang someone for trying a different solution to an increasing problem? How very provincial...

10/10 for TRYING it, maybe it didnt have desired result, i'd say possibly the wrong bridge to close - Ouse bridge much more logical IMHO.

Get a grip - you can change the figurehead of a council but its still the same people behind the scenes who are incapable of organising a pint in a brewery.

Elections are coming, lets see if the Vocal Minority / Majority (delete as appropriate) are right when the people vote..
Hang someone for trying a different solution to an increasing problem? How very provincial... 10/10 for TRYING it, maybe it didnt have desired result, i'd say possibly the wrong bridge to close - Ouse bridge much more logical IMHO. Get a grip - you can change the figurehead of a council but its still the same people behind the scenes who are incapable of organising a pint in a brewery. Elections are coming, lets see if the Vocal Minority / Majority (delete as appropriate) are right when the people vote.. farmerpalmer
  • Score: -10

9:52pm Thu 17 Jul 14

pedalling paul says...

21.51 hrs.
Motion calling for Cllrs Alexander & Merrett to resign, defeated by 25 to 18 votes with 2 abstentions.
21.51 hrs. Motion calling for Cllrs Alexander & Merrett to resign, defeated by 25 to 18 votes with 2 abstentions. pedalling paul
  • Score: 60

10:10pm Thu 17 Jul 14

strangebuttrue? says...

Well a couple of things became clear today.

Listening to Mr Levene he is just a puppet for Mr Merrett. We can expect more of the same from him and he believes he can dupe the residents of York into accepting further measures to bully them out of cars.

Mr Merrett has been nominated for the elections next year so has no intension of resigning. So he is not a man of his word.
Well a couple of things became clear today. Listening to Mr Levene he is just a puppet for Mr Merrett. We can expect more of the same from him and he believes he can dupe the residents of York into accepting further measures to bully them out of cars. Mr Merrett has been nominated for the elections next year so has no intension of resigning. So he is not a man of his word. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -25

10:13pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Silver says...

pedalling paul wrote:
I still don't see anyone who is prepared to grasp the nettle and tell us how else to prevent Carmageddon by the 2030's.
We have only stabilised peak traffic levels temporarily. York faces future travel growth, and the City simply doesn't have the road capacity to accommodate that - and never will.
So let's turn the debate away from Council bashing. Labour took a bold step which was well worth trialling. We don't have time to vacillate and point score. There is a transport time bomb ticking away beneath York, that needs to be defused, sooner rather than later. Hopefully the Congestion Commission will have sufficient b***s to take firm action.
I think you're a little off topic PP Carmageddon got kickstarted for a new release of the classic pc game https://www.kickstar
ter.com/projects/sta
inlessgames/carmaged
don-reincarnation?re
f=nav_search
Although on a serious note, Bold steps are a good thing but if they're followed by a colossal mistep then whats the point of being bold and foolish?
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: I still don't see anyone who is prepared to grasp the nettle and tell us how else to prevent Carmageddon by the 2030's. We have only stabilised peak traffic levels temporarily. York faces future travel growth, and the City simply doesn't have the road capacity to accommodate that - and never will. So let's turn the debate away from Council bashing. Labour took a bold step which was well worth trialling. We don't have time to vacillate and point score. There is a transport time bomb ticking away beneath York, that needs to be defused, sooner rather than later. Hopefully the Congestion Commission will have sufficient b***s to take firm action.[/p][/quote]I think you're a little off topic PP Carmageddon got kickstarted for a new release of the classic pc game https://www.kickstar ter.com/projects/sta inlessgames/carmaged don-reincarnation?re f=nav_search Although on a serious note, Bold steps are a good thing but if they're followed by a colossal mistep then whats the point of being bold and foolish? Silver
  • Score: -25

10:16pm Thu 17 Jul 14

AnotherPointofView says...

pedalling paul wrote:
21.51 hrs.
Motion calling for Cllrs Alexander & Merrett to resign, defeated by 25 to 18 votes with 2 abstentions.
No self respect by any of these councillors. The whole trial was a fiasco. They - Alexander & Merrett should resign immediately.

If they believe the fines were lawful, why are they offering money back?

As this will cost York's taxpayers thousands of pounds and they were warned the scheme was unworkable, I believe the councillors concerned should be surcharged and cover the costs themselves.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: 21.51 hrs. Motion calling for Cllrs Alexander & Merrett to resign, defeated by 25 to 18 votes with 2 abstentions.[/p][/quote]No self respect by any of these councillors. The whole trial was a fiasco. They - Alexander & Merrett should resign immediately. If they believe the fines were lawful, why are they offering money back? As this will cost York's taxpayers thousands of pounds and they were warned the scheme was unworkable, I believe the councillors concerned should be surcharged and cover the costs themselves. AnotherPointofView
  • Score: -18

10:17pm Thu 17 Jul 14

GMuser says...

pedalling paul wrote:
21.51 hrs.
Motion calling for Cllrs Alexander & Merrett to resign, defeated by 25 to 18 votes with 2 abstentions.
I tell you what Paul you must be doing cartwheels of delight that they survived to waste more ot OUR money for a few more months.
I worked in the real world of the private sector where you were held responsible for your decisions and actions AND when in a meeting NO ONE was limited to a limit on how long a constructive debate would go on. I have watched the councill meeting tonight and now understand why no one really will wants to go into politics. As always if you ask a direct question all you ever get is evasive non responses especially if you can drag it out so that it FITS in an alloted time scale. I actually despair for the general public!!! AND if you spout long enough no one else can respond to the NON answers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: 21.51 hrs. Motion calling for Cllrs Alexander & Merrett to resign, defeated by 25 to 18 votes with 2 abstentions.[/p][/quote]I tell you what Paul you must be doing cartwheels of delight that they survived to waste more ot OUR money for a few more months. I worked in the real world of the private sector where you were held responsible for your decisions and actions AND when in a meeting NO ONE was limited to a limit on how long a constructive debate would go on. I have watched the councill meeting tonight and now understand why no one really will wants to go into politics. As always if you ask a direct question all you ever get is evasive non responses especially if you can drag it out so that it FITS in an alloted time scale. I actually despair for the general public!!! AND if you spout long enough no one else can respond to the NON answers!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! GMuser
  • Score: -10

10:33pm Thu 17 Jul 14

piaggio1 says...

Soooooo who where the 25 loonies???
This lot are on the make .wake up for christ sake .they are so corrupt just wait till it ALL comes out..this is NOT the labour party i voted for. Shame on you all.....
Soooooo who where the 25 loonies??? This lot are on the make .wake up for christ sake .they are so corrupt just wait till it ALL comes out..this is NOT the labour party i voted for. Shame on you all..... piaggio1
  • Score: -43

10:34pm Thu 17 Jul 14

pedalling paul says...

Goodnight children...everywher
e!
Goodnight children...everywher e! pedalling paul
  • Score: 110

10:39pm Thu 17 Jul 14

howmanymoretimes says...

pedalling paul wrote:
21.51 hrs.
Motion calling for Cllrs Alexander & Merrett to resign, defeated by 25 to 18 votes with 2 abstentions.
I was expecting to see you at the meeting tonight Paul showing your support for our wonderful cllrs. (not)

There's a 40 second delay on the webcast so I'd be interested to know if the massive round of applause that the no confidence motion received from the public gallery was cut out.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: 21.51 hrs. Motion calling for Cllrs Alexander & Merrett to resign, defeated by 25 to 18 votes with 2 abstentions.[/p][/quote]I was expecting to see you at the meeting tonight Paul showing your support for our wonderful cllrs. (not) There's a 40 second delay on the webcast so I'd be interested to know if the massive round of applause that the no confidence motion received from the public gallery was cut out. howmanymoretimes
  • Score: -36

10:43pm Thu 17 Jul 14

howmanymoretimes says...

apologies, it was a call to resign not a no confidence motion
apologies, it was a call to resign not a no confidence motion howmanymoretimes
  • Score: -55

10:51pm Thu 17 Jul 14

JasBro says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Goodnight children...everywher

e!
As always happens, you sidestep any intelligent discussion of the issues.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Goodnight children...everywher e![/p][/quote]As always happens, you sidestep any intelligent discussion of the issues. JasBro
  • Score: -29

11:12pm Thu 17 Jul 14

strangebuttrue? says...

I see the score adjusting thing has been let out since the meeting finished. More misleading of the residents and public in general. Bit like Mr Merrett's saying he would resign.
I see the score adjusting thing has been let out since the meeting finished. More misleading of the residents and public in general. Bit like Mr Merrett's saying he would resign. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -233

12:24am Fri 18 Jul 14

Badgers Drift says...

Buzzz Light-year wrote:
BethFoxHunter96 wrote about Badgers Drift: You can't just lump everyone into a single box "Marxist" or whatever in order to ignore them or try to discount them
Yes well I have news for you BethFox. Actually Badgers Drift can and does. He is the King of Dichotomy. He is the living spirit of McCarthyism. You're either with him or you're *one of them* and *they* are "suspect" and *they* need "to be stopped" I know it's crazy and wrong but he won't give up.
Followers of the marxist doctrine exist. Some admit it, others pretend they don't.

The giveaways are...

When they gush and lament the loss of comrades like Eric Hobsbawm, Lionel Cliffe and Stuart McPhail Hall, saying that these marxist academics were big influences on them.

When they repeatedly decry capitalism as destructive and predatory, and that it has to be killed!

When, through their actions, they build 'innovative' 'disruptive' structures which seek to subvert democracy, by pretending that this is a new system of democracy, and a new system of government.

Beware the wloves in sheeps clothing!
[quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: [quote]BethFoxHunter96 wrote about Badgers Drift: You can't just lump everyone into a single box "Marxist" or whatever in order to ignore them or try to discount them[/quote] Yes well I have news for you BethFox. Actually Badgers Drift can and does. He is the King of Dichotomy. He is the living spirit of McCarthyism. You're either with him or you're *one of them* and *they* are "suspect" and *they* need "to be stopped" I know it's crazy and wrong but he won't give up.[/p][/quote]Followers of the marxist doctrine exist. Some admit it, others pretend they don't. The giveaways are... When they gush and lament the loss of comrades like Eric Hobsbawm, Lionel Cliffe and Stuart McPhail Hall, saying that these marxist academics were big influences on them. When they repeatedly decry capitalism as destructive and predatory, and that it has to be killed! When, through their actions, they build 'innovative' 'disruptive' structures which seek to subvert democracy, by pretending that this is a new system of democracy, and a new system of government. Beware the wloves in sheeps clothing! Badgers Drift
  • Score: -80

9:21am Fri 18 Jul 14

Dr Martin says...

strangebuttrue? wrote:
I see the score adjusting thing has been let out since the meeting finished. More misleading of the residents and public in general. Bit like Mr Merrett's saying he would resign.
Yes it's a bit of a joke as it is so obvious, as I have mentioned before I don't think it is politically motivated it's just someone or a few people showing off
that they can do it
[quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote: I see the score adjusting thing has been let out since the meeting finished. More misleading of the residents and public in general. Bit like Mr Merrett's saying he would resign.[/p][/quote]Yes it's a bit of a joke as it is so obvious, as I have mentioned before I don't think it is politically motivated it's just someone or a few people showing off that they can do it Dr Martin
  • Score: 2

9:46am Fri 18 Jul 14

notpedallingpaul says...

pedalling paul wrote:
21.51 hrs.
Motion calling for Cllrs Alexander & Merrett to resign, defeated by 25 to 18 votes with 2 abstentions.
So you think that Alexander & Merrett escaping the motion by the skin of their teeth is a resounding victory?, the resounding cheer from the public when the motion was proposed was an indication of how much these two are held in contempt.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: 21.51 hrs. Motion calling for Cllrs Alexander & Merrett to resign, defeated by 25 to 18 votes with 2 abstentions.[/p][/quote]So you think that Alexander & Merrett escaping the motion by the skin of their teeth is a resounding victory?, the resounding cheer from the public when the motion was proposed was an indication of how much these two are held in contempt. notpedallingpaul
  • Score: 4

1:19pm Fri 18 Jul 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

Badgers Drift wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
BethFoxHunter96 wrote about Badgers Drift: You can't just lump everyone into a single box "Marxist" or whatever in order to ignore them or try to discount them
Yes well I have news for you BethFox. Actually Badgers Drift can and does. He is the King of Dichotomy. He is the living spirit of McCarthyism. You're either with him or you're *one of them* and *they* are "suspect" and *they* need "to be stopped" I know it's crazy and wrong but he won't give up.
Followers of the marxist doctrine exist. Some admit it, others pretend they don't.

The giveaways are...

When they gush and lament the loss of comrades like Eric Hobsbawm, Lionel Cliffe and Stuart McPhail Hall, saying that these marxist academics were big influences on them.

When they repeatedly decry capitalism as destructive and predatory, and that it has to be killed!

When, through their actions, they build 'innovative' 'disruptive' structures which seek to subvert democracy, by pretending that this is a new system of democracy, and a new system of government.

Beware the wloves in sheeps clothing!
I beware of you Paul and should everyone else.
[quote][p][bold]Badgers Drift[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: [quote]BethFoxHunter96 wrote about Badgers Drift: You can't just lump everyone into a single box "Marxist" or whatever in order to ignore them or try to discount them[/quote] Yes well I have news for you BethFox. Actually Badgers Drift can and does. He is the King of Dichotomy. He is the living spirit of McCarthyism. You're either with him or you're *one of them* and *they* are "suspect" and *they* need "to be stopped" I know it's crazy and wrong but he won't give up.[/p][/quote]Followers of the marxist doctrine exist. Some admit it, others pretend they don't. The giveaways are... When they gush and lament the loss of comrades like Eric Hobsbawm, Lionel Cliffe and Stuart McPhail Hall, saying that these marxist academics were big influences on them. When they repeatedly decry capitalism as destructive and predatory, and that it has to be killed! When, through their actions, they build 'innovative' 'disruptive' structures which seek to subvert democracy, by pretending that this is a new system of democracy, and a new system of government. Beware the wloves in sheeps clothing![/p][/quote]I beware of you Paul and should everyone else. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 3

3:56pm Sat 19 Jul 14

Cheeky face says...

That vote appears inconsistent with the views of the audience; nearly all of those will suffer when refunds are administered. Refunds on Coppergate may well follow.
That vote appears inconsistent with the views of the audience; nearly all of those will suffer when refunds are administered. Refunds on Coppergate may well follow. Cheeky face
  • Score: 0
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