Longer footstreet hours confirmed, despite market fears

Footstreets move to extend hours

Footstreets move to extend hours

Updated in News

AN EXPERIMENT to extend the pedestrian only hours in York's city centre streets has been made permanent, despite objections from market traders and delivery companies.

York council's Cabinet Member for Transport Dave Merrett decided to follow the advice of council officials and make the changes - which moved the restricted hours to 10.30am - 5pm on many of the city centre's streets - at a decision session on Thursday.

The plans will also restrict vehicles access to Stonegate to the hours of 5.30-10am, and put bollards in the St Helen's Square end of Stonegate to enforce a "loading only" period.

The new, longer, footstreet times mean market traders in the regular Newgate Market and in specialist markets in Parliament Street cannot get vehicles into the city centre to pack up their goods until after 5pm, leading to objections that the rules extend the market's day and keep traders stuck at empty stalls for hours into the afternoon when their stock has sold and customers gone home.

Dorothy Best, from Easingwold Country Market, told Coun Merrett's decision session on Thursday that customers for her stall, and many others at the farmers' market, arrive early to buy fresh produce. By mid afternoon, empty stalls leave a bad impression for shoppers but traders cannot pack up and leave until the end of the footstreet hours at 5pm.

The plans also drew objections from delivery drivers, who spoke up about their problems delivering to dozens of businesses in the pedestrian hours before the roads shut at 10.30am.

But despite the problems they have caused council official Alistair Briggs recommended the new restrictions become permanent, even he admitted the council does not have details of footfall levels through the trial period.

Coun Merrett said the longer pedestrian hours were part of a "trade off" designed to extend the city centre's trading hours and bring an end to the feeling the streets close for business in the mid afternoon.

He said: "When trying to run the city centre there are compromises involved. We cannot satisfy everybody all the time."

The scheme will also give officials the power to use an exemption for early finishes at the market so traders can leave the market before 5pm in bad weather, and when trade is poor.

Comments (34)

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12:33pm Sat 12 Apr 14

YOUWILLDOASISAY says...

But despite the problems they have caused council official Alistair Briggs recommended the new restrictions become permanent.

So, we listened to you but your wrong.

Why?.

Coun Merritt,
"When trying to run the city centre there are compromises involved. We cannot satisfy everybody all the time."

So, because "I say so".

There is no quantifiable answer from Merrett or the council who continue to do it seems whatever they wants without grown-up justification.
But despite the problems they have caused council official Alistair Briggs recommended the new restrictions become permanent. So, we listened to you but your wrong. Why?. Coun Merritt, "When trying to run the city centre there are compromises involved. We cannot satisfy everybody all the time." So, because "I say so". There is no quantifiable answer from Merrett or the council who continue to do it seems whatever they wants without grown-up justification. YOUWILLDOASISAY
  • Score: -35

1:45pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

Disgraceful.
Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent.
A good day to bury a bad decision eh?

To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount.
I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that?
They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job.

If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.
Disgraceful. Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent. A good day to bury a bad decision eh? To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount. I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that? They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job. If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: -13

1:45pm Sat 12 Apr 14

eeoodares says...

If Merret had any integrity he would have resigned by now.

The man is a disgrace!
If Merret had any integrity he would have resigned by now. The man is a disgrace! eeoodares
  • Score: -19

1:47pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Woody G Mellor says...

Merrett really REALLY has to go!
Merrett really REALLY has to go! Woody G Mellor
  • Score: -72

1:50pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

Also, with the current King's Square works going on, traffic is being routed through Parliament Street.
The 10.30 cut-off hasn't been enforced or is unfeasible to be enforced at the moment. All week there are still vans and lorries in town after 11.

Today (Saturday) I was trying to watch some great young lads busking by the "fountain" along with many others in our supposed footstreets. No less than 5 blue badge cars and one food delivery van pushed through the crowds, not too slowly and ruining the atmosphere around the young musicians. At 12.30!
Also, with the current King's Square works going on, traffic is being routed through Parliament Street. The 10.30 cut-off hasn't been enforced or is unfeasible to be enforced at the moment. All week there are still vans and lorries in town after 11. Today (Saturday) I was trying to watch some great young lads busking by the "fountain" along with many others in our supposed footstreets. No less than 5 blue badge cars and one food delivery van pushed through the crowds, not too slowly and ruining the atmosphere around the young musicians. At 12.30! Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 36

3:34pm Sat 12 Apr 14

RingoStarr says...

Hell hath no fury like a Merrett scorned......over Lendal Bridge!
Hell hath no fury like a Merrett scorned......over Lendal Bridge! RingoStarr
  • Score: -17

3:35pm Sat 12 Apr 14

RingoStarr says...

...or should that read yet more Bollards from Merrett?
...or should that read yet more Bollards from Merrett? RingoStarr
  • Score: -37

3:40pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Caecilius says...

Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Disgraceful.
Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent.
A good day to bury a bad decision eh?

To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount.
I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that?
They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job.

If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.
Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"?
[quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Disgraceful. Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent. A good day to bury a bad decision eh? To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount. I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that? They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job. If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.[/p][/quote]Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"? Caecilius
  • Score: 64

4:10pm Sat 12 Apr 14

yorkiemum says...

Ooohhhh Buzzz V Caecilius. Come on Buzzz!!!!
Ooohhhh Buzzz V Caecilius. Come on Buzzz!!!! yorkiemum
  • Score: 4

4:23pm Sat 12 Apr 14

muckybutt says...

Can we go back the medieval time and have a public flogging ?

I vote to close Lendal Bridge for the day and put Merret in the stocks and flog him.... the pillock !
Can we go back the medieval time and have a public flogging ? I vote to close Lendal Bridge for the day and put Merret in the stocks and flog him.... the pillock ! muckybutt
  • Score: -35

5:32pm Sat 12 Apr 14

RoseD says...

Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Also, with the current King's Square works going on, traffic is being routed through Parliament Street.
The 10.30 cut-off hasn't been enforced or is unfeasible to be enforced at the moment. All week there are still vans and lorries in town after 11.

Today (Saturday) I was trying to watch some great young lads busking by the "fountain" along with many others in our supposed footstreets. No less than 5 blue badge cars and one food delivery van pushed through the crowds, not too slowly and ruining the atmosphere around the young musicians. At 12.30!
Oh, surely NOT, some nasty disgusting cripples daring to use YOUR town? Yuck.
[quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Also, with the current King's Square works going on, traffic is being routed through Parliament Street. The 10.30 cut-off hasn't been enforced or is unfeasible to be enforced at the moment. All week there are still vans and lorries in town after 11. Today (Saturday) I was trying to watch some great young lads busking by the "fountain" along with many others in our supposed footstreets. No less than 5 blue badge cars and one food delivery van pushed through the crowds, not too slowly and ruining the atmosphere around the young musicians. At 12.30![/p][/quote]Oh, surely NOT, some nasty disgusting cripples daring to use YOUR town? Yuck. RoseD
  • Score: -54

5:43pm Sat 12 Apr 14

YOUWILLDOASISAY says...

Caecilius wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Disgraceful.
Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent.
A good day to bury a bad decision eh?

To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount.
I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that?
They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job.

If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.
Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"?
Two examples of pedestrians injured in the City Centre, two incident involved a bus, the other a taxi.

Example 1.
http://www.yorkpress
.co.uk/archive/2004/
05/21/7886711.Speed_
worry_on_the_corner/


Example 2.
http://www.yorkpress
.co.uk/news/10039607
.Pedestrian_injured_
as_crash_brings_York
_city_centre_traffic
_chaos/

Example 3.
http://www.yorkpress
.co.uk/archive/2005/
11/22/7975952.Woman_
seriously_injured_in
_city_centre_bus_sma
sh/

I can't find anything that suggest the council are jet washing the blood of the pavements after delivery vehicles have been through our medieval streets, so either its another council secret or it's not happening (guilty of extreme example for which I make no apology, seems the norm).

What the evidence indicates is that public transport is a risk to pedestrians in the city centre. I agree that safety is paramount, however it is usually supported evidentially.
[quote][p][bold]Caecilius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Disgraceful. Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent. A good day to bury a bad decision eh? To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount. I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that? They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job. If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.[/p][/quote]Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"?[/p][/quote]Two examples of pedestrians injured in the City Centre, two incident involved a bus, the other a taxi. Example 1. http://www.yorkpress .co.uk/archive/2004/ 05/21/7886711.Speed_ worry_on_the_corner/ Example 2. http://www.yorkpress .co.uk/news/10039607 .Pedestrian_injured_ as_crash_brings_York _city_centre_traffic _chaos/ Example 3. http://www.yorkpress .co.uk/archive/2005/ 11/22/7975952.Woman_ seriously_injured_in _city_centre_bus_sma sh/ I can't find anything that suggest the council are jet washing the blood of the pavements after delivery vehicles have been through our medieval streets, so either its another council secret or it's not happening (guilty of extreme example for which I make no apology, seems the norm). What the evidence indicates is that public transport is a risk to pedestrians in the city centre. I agree that safety is paramount, however it is usually supported evidentially. YOUWILLDOASISAY
  • Score: -47

6:24pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

Caecilius wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Disgraceful.
Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent.
A good day to bury a bad decision eh?

To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount.
I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that?
They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job.

If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.
Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"?
What is it with this site and people putting words into my mouth?

Where did I say I believe vehicles should "be allowed to barge... all day long?"
The "experiment" changed the hours from 11.00 till 16.00 to 10.30 till 17.00. That's an hour and a half lost for deliveries and servicing.
I happen to think this "experiment" that has become permanent makes it costly and difficult for deliveries to be made. Perhaps a compromise could have been made? Go back to 11.00 but keep it at 17.00.

It's not the convenience of the retailers and landlords I'm talking about, it's the punters. The delivery of goods to our outlets is paramount because if there's nothing to sell then no-one will come in and there'd be no town centre to speak of.

How often would your visitors come back if there was nothing to buy and nothing to eat?

Stonegate is an exception, it used to close earlier than the rest of town and it doesn't open again in the afternoon like the rest of town, so bad example.
[quote][p][bold]Caecilius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Disgraceful. Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent. A good day to bury a bad decision eh? To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount. I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that? They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job. If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.[/p][/quote]Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"?[/p][/quote]What is it with this site and people putting words into my mouth? Where did I say I believe vehicles should "be allowed to barge... all day long?" The "experiment" changed the hours from 11.00 till 16.00 to 10.30 till 17.00. That's an hour and a half lost for deliveries and servicing. I happen to think this "experiment" that has become permanent makes it costly and difficult for deliveries to be made. Perhaps a compromise could have been made? Go back to 11.00 but keep it at 17.00. It's not the convenience of the retailers and landlords I'm talking about, it's the punters. The delivery of goods to our outlets is paramount because if there's nothing to sell then no-one will come in and there'd be no town centre to speak of. How often would your visitors come back if there was nothing to buy and nothing to eat? Stonegate is an exception, it used to close earlier than the rest of town and it doesn't open again in the afternoon like the rest of town, so bad example. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: -8

6:28pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

RoseD wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Also, with the current King's Square works going on, traffic is being routed through Parliament Street.
The 10.30 cut-off hasn't been enforced or is unfeasible to be enforced at the moment. All week there are still vans and lorries in town after 11.

Today (Saturday) I was trying to watch some great young lads busking by the "fountain" along with many others in our supposed footstreets. No less than 5 blue badge cars and one food delivery van pushed through the crowds, not too slowly and ruining the atmosphere around the young musicians. At 12.30!
Oh, surely NOT, some nasty disgusting cripples daring to use YOUR town? Yuck.
More words into my mouth. Not what I meant and well you know it.
[quote][p][bold]RoseD[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Also, with the current King's Square works going on, traffic is being routed through Parliament Street. The 10.30 cut-off hasn't been enforced or is unfeasible to be enforced at the moment. All week there are still vans and lorries in town after 11. Today (Saturday) I was trying to watch some great young lads busking by the "fountain" along with many others in our supposed footstreets. No less than 5 blue badge cars and one food delivery van pushed through the crowds, not too slowly and ruining the atmosphere around the young musicians. At 12.30![/p][/quote]Oh, surely NOT, some nasty disgusting cripples daring to use YOUR town? Yuck.[/p][/quote]More words into my mouth. Not what I meant and well you know it. Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 56

6:38pm Sat 12 Apr 14

bloodaxe says...

Absolutely no evidence from anywhere that pedestrianisation reduces footfall or business . Progressive cities are going down this route and so should York. Many cities are far more punitive than York in restricting private vehicles and insisting that deliveries are made before 10.30. Anyway, all this talk of a downturn in business is tripe. "Local traders" will say anything but I prefer to listen to urban geographers who actually study these things. Remember the fuss about the Headrow and Leeds pedestrianisation ? York is clearly NOT designed for a traffic free for all or deliveries clogging the narrow streets. Don't bother voting this down, I'm off to bed.
Absolutely no evidence from anywhere that pedestrianisation reduces footfall or business . Progressive cities are going down this route and so should York. Many cities are far more punitive than York in restricting private vehicles and insisting that deliveries are made before 10.30. Anyway, all this talk of a downturn in business is tripe. "Local traders" will say anything but I prefer to listen to urban geographers who actually study these things. Remember the fuss about the Headrow and Leeds pedestrianisation ? York is clearly NOT designed for a traffic free for all or deliveries clogging the narrow streets. Don't bother voting this down, I'm off to bed. bloodaxe
  • Score: 43

6:59pm Sat 12 Apr 14

AnotherPointofView says...

So Merritt loses the argument over Lendal Bridge and Alexander earlier this week says we have listened. What nonsense! Just one very childish way of getting their own back.

We can get our own back next year though. Roll on May 2015!
So Merritt loses the argument over Lendal Bridge and Alexander earlier this week says we have listened. What nonsense! Just one very childish way of getting their own back. We can get our own back next year though. Roll on May 2015! AnotherPointofView
  • Score: -121

7:10pm Sat 12 Apr 14

bill bailey says...

I have the utmost sympathy for the retailers in the centre of York, They are attempting to make a living against all the odds, They are taxed up to the hilt, the people of the City have deserted them over the past years to shop in the outer retail parks, now with recently opened Lewis, M%S and Next stores at Monks Cross I can only think they have had enough, if they wanted out they would have few buyers , God knows what would happen if day trippers only came to York in the coaches to visit the out of the city retail outlets.Lets face it
once you have visited the attractions they wont come back to do the same rounds again,The next development will be Hotels in the Monks Cross area
with more eating establishments then what,,Just remember trade follows trade.
I have the utmost sympathy for the retailers in the centre of York, They are attempting to make a living against all the odds, They are taxed up to the hilt, the people of the City have deserted them over the past years to shop in the outer retail parks, now with recently opened Lewis, M%S and Next stores at Monks Cross I can only think they have had enough, if they wanted out they would have few buyers , God knows what would happen if day trippers only came to York in the coaches to visit the out of the city retail outlets.Lets face it once you have visited the attractions they wont come back to do the same rounds again,The next development will be Hotels in the Monks Cross area with more eating establishments then what,,Just remember trade follows trade. bill bailey
  • Score: -140

7:14pm Sat 12 Apr 14

What-a-joke-they-are says...

AnotherPointofView wrote:
So Merritt loses the argument over Lendal Bridge and Alexander earlier this week says we have listened. What nonsense! Just one very childish way of getting their own back.

We can get our own back next year though. Roll on May 2015!
today's news really does read like sour grapes...

another swathe of 20 signs and another limitation on vehicles in York.

Merrett, Alexander, Semelyn please hurry up and pass on, leave York to rebuild its reputation and resident's services.

and another thing - Jimmy A, you are a massive loser! Congratulations on the weight loss
[quote][p][bold]AnotherPointofView[/bold] wrote: So Merritt loses the argument over Lendal Bridge and Alexander earlier this week says we have listened. What nonsense! Just one very childish way of getting their own back. We can get our own back next year though. Roll on May 2015![/p][/quote]today's news really does read like sour grapes... another swathe of 20 signs and another limitation on vehicles in York. Merrett, Alexander, Semelyn please hurry up and pass on, leave York to rebuild its reputation and resident's services. and another thing - Jimmy A, you are a massive loser! Congratulations on the weight loss What-a-joke-they-are
  • Score: -116

7:38pm Sat 12 Apr 14

eeoodares says...

Caecilius wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Disgraceful.
Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent.
A good day to bury a bad decision eh?

To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount.
I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that?
They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job.

If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.
Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"?
They were designed for vehicles, that is why they are so wide! How do you think got to the COACHING Inns in the city?

Sadly people like you who have no grip on history or reality come out with fundamentally incorrect statements!
[quote][p][bold]Caecilius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Disgraceful. Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent. A good day to bury a bad decision eh? To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount. I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that? They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job. If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.[/p][/quote]Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"?[/p][/quote]They were designed for vehicles, that is why they are so wide! How do you think got to the COACHING Inns in the city? Sadly people like you who have no grip on history or reality come out with fundamentally incorrect statements! eeoodares
  • Score: -53

10:21pm Sat 12 Apr 14

yorkandproud says...

Sadly, the Labour Group are determined to ruin this wonderful City. Dave Merritt, you really are out of touch with the people of York. You are a disgrace to your party. James Alexander, if this was a stepping stone to parliament, forget it .
Sadly, the Labour Group are determined to ruin this wonderful City. Dave Merritt, you really are out of touch with the people of York. You are a disgrace to your party. James Alexander, if this was a stepping stone to parliament, forget it . yorkandproud
  • Score: -43

10:27pm Sat 12 Apr 14

rodney'sdog says...

More experiments...Obviou
sly none of the Councillors have city centre businesses. Time for compensation claims and business rate refunds to be applied for.
More experiments...Obviou sly none of the Councillors have city centre businesses. Time for compensation claims and business rate refunds to be applied for. rodney'sdog
  • Score: -68

10:36pm Sat 12 Apr 14

oldgoat says...

Caecilius wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Disgraceful.
Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent.
A good day to bury a bad decision eh?

To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount.
I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that?
They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job.

If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.
Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"?
In reality, even the oldest streets were built to take carts. Otherwise nothing would ever have got delivered, so no traders would have anything to sell.

That is the nub of the issue - you are expecting suppliers to get to several traders within a very small window of time. Simply not practical.

Also affects the ability of shoppers to collect their heavier/larger purchases before shops close.
[quote][p][bold]Caecilius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Disgraceful. Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent. A good day to bury a bad decision eh? To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount. I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that? They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job. If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.[/p][/quote]Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"?[/p][/quote]In reality, even the oldest streets were built to take carts. Otherwise nothing would ever have got delivered, so no traders would have anything to sell. That is the nub of the issue - you are expecting suppliers to get to several traders within a very small window of time. Simply not practical. Also affects the ability of shoppers to collect their heavier/larger purchases before shops close. oldgoat
  • Score: -76

10:40pm Sat 12 Apr 14

m dee says...

I would like to see Coppergate closed to all traffic is to narrow for the Buses would be much better for pedestrians would only take buses a few minutes longer to go up Piccadilly.
I would like to see Coppergate closed to all traffic is to narrow for the Buses would be much better for pedestrians would only take buses a few minutes longer to go up Piccadilly. m dee
  • Score: 55

12:23am Sun 13 Apr 14

AnotherPointofView says...

m dee wrote:
I would like to see Coppergate closed to all traffic is to narrow for the Buses would be much better for pedestrians would only take buses a few minutes longer to go up Piccadilly.
It is too narrow for buses. How about banning the buses and making it cars only????
(Tongue firmly in cheek)
[quote][p][bold]m dee[/bold] wrote: I would like to see Coppergate closed to all traffic is to narrow for the Buses would be much better for pedestrians would only take buses a few minutes longer to go up Piccadilly.[/p][/quote]It is too narrow for buses. How about banning the buses and making it cars only???? (Tongue firmly in cheek) AnotherPointofView
  • Score: -42

8:47am Sun 13 Apr 14

Wagwot says...

Regarding the proposed 10am closure of STONEGATE.

The majority of businesses don't open until 10am in the city centre - this is because there are insufficient customers to warrant opening earlier. The 10:30 restriction on Stonegate is IDEAL for them. The big multiples can afford to send in staff before 10am to take deliveries. The smaller independents can do their OWN deliveries AFTER opening time.

All the 10am restriction on Stonegate will do is screw small independent operators... it won't generate more custom... nice.
Regarding the proposed 10am closure of STONEGATE. The majority of businesses don't open until 10am in the city centre - this is because there are insufficient customers to warrant opening earlier. The 10:30 restriction on Stonegate is IDEAL for them. The big multiples can afford to send in staff before 10am to take deliveries. The smaller independents can do their OWN deliveries AFTER opening time. All the 10am restriction on Stonegate will do is screw small independent operators... it won't generate more custom... nice. Wagwot
  • Score: -51

9:04am Sun 13 Apr 14

Wagwot says...

Wagwot wrote:
Regarding the proposed 10am closure of STONEGATE.

The majority of businesses don't open until 10am in the city centre - this is because there are insufficient customers to warrant opening earlier. The 10:30 restriction on Stonegate is IDEAL for them. The big multiples can afford to send in staff before 10am to take deliveries. The smaller independents can do their OWN deliveries AFTER opening time.

All the 10am restriction on Stonegate will do is screw small independent operators... it won't generate more custom... nice.
Incidentally, I am one of these independent businesses and am pretty representative of the rest of us on Stonegate.
[quote][p][bold]Wagwot[/bold] wrote: Regarding the proposed 10am closure of STONEGATE. The majority of businesses don't open until 10am in the city centre - this is because there are insufficient customers to warrant opening earlier. The 10:30 restriction on Stonegate is IDEAL for them. The big multiples can afford to send in staff before 10am to take deliveries. The smaller independents can do their OWN deliveries AFTER opening time. All the 10am restriction on Stonegate will do is screw small independent operators... it won't generate more custom... nice.[/p][/quote]Incidentally, I am one of these independent businesses and am pretty representative of the rest of us on Stonegate. Wagwot
  • Score: -15

9:15am Sun 13 Apr 14

Wagwot says...

oldgoat wrote:
Caecilius wrote:
Buzzz Light-year wrote:
Disgraceful.
Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent.
A good day to bury a bad decision eh?

To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount.
I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that?
They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job.

If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.
Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"?
In reality, even the oldest streets were built to take carts. Otherwise nothing would ever have got delivered, so no traders would have anything to sell.

That is the nub of the issue - you are expecting suppliers to get to several traders within a very small window of time. Simply not practical.

Also affects the ability of shoppers to collect their heavier/larger purchases before shops close.
There appears to be a misunderstanding here that trucks don't deliver just about everything in our homes. Letting businesses receive goods-in efficiently is a vital element to keeping the city centre buoyant. Giving them a period in the morning to get it all done makes sense and, in practice, works fine. Its unsightly but it gets it done quickly during the quietest part of the trading day. The alternative will be a continued hollowing out to out of town retail parks - which create far MORE car journeys.
[quote][p][bold]oldgoat[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Caecilius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote: Disgraceful. Sneaked that one by us didn't they? While we're all whoop-whooping or boo-booing over the bridge they decided this "trial" would be permanent. A good day to bury a bad decision eh? To take one example - without deliveries our shops would have nothing to sell within 3 days. The delivery of goods to all our retail and hospitality outlets is paramount. I don't think the council realise how much inconvenience and how much extra cost they have caused for all the delivery companies. How arrogant is that? They aren't just the big corporates like UPS and DHL, there's independents and small business trying to to their job. If I were the bosses of these companies I'd be seeking a get together and looking at failing deliveries and letting shelves run empty.[/p][/quote]Take a look at the photo accompanying this article. This is a narrow, medieval street that was never designed for vehicles and is completely unsuitable for them. Nevertheless, they're still permitted to use it before 10.30 a.m. It seems that you believe they should be allowed to barge down it all day long, forcing pedestrians to squeeze up against the buildings to let them past. How often would visitors come back to spend their money with the independents and small businesses, if their experience of York's historic city centre was that they were constantly having to jump out of the way of honking delivery vans? How arrogant is it to claim that the convenience of people who own retail and "hospitality" outlets (by which I guess you mean pubs and restaurants) is "paramount"?[/p][/quote]In reality, even the oldest streets were built to take carts. Otherwise nothing would ever have got delivered, so no traders would have anything to sell. That is the nub of the issue - you are expecting suppliers to get to several traders within a very small window of time. Simply not practical. Also affects the ability of shoppers to collect their heavier/larger purchases before shops close.[/p][/quote]There appears to be a misunderstanding here that trucks don't deliver just about everything in our homes. Letting businesses receive goods-in efficiently is a vital element to keeping the city centre buoyant. Giving them a period in the morning to get it all done makes sense and, in practice, works fine. Its unsightly but it gets it done quickly during the quietest part of the trading day. The alternative will be a continued hollowing out to out of town retail parks - which create far MORE car journeys. Wagwot
  • Score: -19

9:17am Sun 13 Apr 14

Pinza-C55 says...

If the city centre is pedestrianized why do I still see cyclists there? Cyclists aren't pedestrians.
If the city centre is pedestrianized why do I still see cyclists there? Cyclists aren't pedestrians. Pinza-C55
  • Score: -25

10:47am Sun 13 Apr 14

Cryptic says...

No mention of the impact on people of restricted mobility who are being progressively excluded from more of the city centre for more of the time. Goodramgate through to St Helen's Square cannot take the extra numbers, Green Permit or not. Off-street council car parks are of no use to those Blue Badge holders able to walk only, say, 100 metres. Anyway, council car parks as far away as Clifford's Tower now often have no vacant bays wide enough for disabled people who have a struggle to leave or enter their cars.
'Only patronise John Lewis and Vue' seems to be the message. Oh, and if you like theatre, the West Yorkshire Playhouse in Leeds has superb parking provision for you.
No mention of the impact on people of restricted mobility who are being progressively excluded from more of the city centre for more of the time. Goodramgate through to St Helen's Square cannot take the extra numbers, Green Permit or not. Off-street council car parks are of no use to those Blue Badge holders able to walk only, say, 100 metres. Anyway, council car parks as far away as Clifford's Tower now often have no vacant bays wide enough for disabled people who have a struggle to leave or enter their cars. 'Only patronise John Lewis and Vue' seems to be the message. Oh, and if you like theatre, the West Yorkshire Playhouse in Leeds has superb parking provision for you. Cryptic
  • Score: -21

11:20am Sun 13 Apr 14

RingoStarr says...

I do hope the 'hacker' won't be employed by CYC to officiate over ballot boxes in the next local election. Mind you, knowing this lot........
I do hope the 'hacker' won't be employed by CYC to officiate over ballot boxes in the next local election. Mind you, knowing this lot........ RingoStarr
  • Score: -33

11:08pm Sun 13 Apr 14

VicMeldrew says...

Bollards!! Hmm won't they enhance the look of Stonegate?
Bollards!! Hmm won't they enhance the look of Stonegate? VicMeldrew
  • Score: -20

3:25am Mon 14 Apr 14

Magicman! says...

EH??

So on the one hand we have the council extending pedestrian-only hours within the city centre core so as 'to improve the feel of the city for visitors and pedestrians'; and then on the other hand the self same people have just signed the papers for the traffic queues to return to Lendal Bridge within 4 weeks.

And old saying about the left hand being unaware of the actions being taken by the right hand springs to mind.
EH?? So on the one hand we have the council extending pedestrian-only hours within the city centre core so as 'to improve the feel of the city for visitors and pedestrians'; and then on the other hand the self same people have just signed the papers for the traffic queues to return to Lendal Bridge within 4 weeks. And old saying about the left hand being unaware of the actions being taken by the right hand springs to mind. Magicman!
  • Score: -5

11:26am Mon 14 Apr 14

eboricana says...

Every time I press the plus button when I agree with a comment especially about merrett it deducts rather than multiples! I am not an idiot I have contacted the press three times to report this issue but A. I do not speak martian B. I have not asked them find a cure for cancer or to perform brain surgery! Now I am left with no alternative but to make a complaint to the relevant body that regulates the press because there REALLY IS something very dodgy going on!
Every time I press the plus button when I agree with a comment especially about merrett it deducts rather than multiples! I am not an idiot I have contacted the press three times to report this issue but A. I do not speak martian B. I have not asked them find a cure for cancer or to perform brain surgery! Now I am left with no alternative but to make a complaint to the relevant body that regulates the press because there REALLY IS something very dodgy going on! eboricana
  • Score: -26

10:51am Fri 18 Apr 14

wildthing666 says...

May 22nd and your out but no incoming party will abolish the scam
May 22nd and your out but no incoming party will abolish the scam wildthing666
  • Score: 0

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