20mph scheme to be extended in York

20mph scheme to be extended

20mph scheme to be extended

Updated in News York Press: Photograph of the Author by

THE roll-out of 20mph speed limits across York is set to continue after the next stage was approved at a council session.

The council’s cabinet member for transport, Dave Merrett, approved spending £235,000 on the next stage of the controversial project, which will see new speed limits in the north and east of the city, following the example of West York, where the limits were introduced last year.

Approving the plans, Councillor Merrett said 20mph limits would bring York’s streets in line with the common practice across continental Europe, where most residential streets have limits of 30kph, and are safer and more pleasant environments for pedestrians, cyclists and families.

The scheme has attracted criticism from the opposition Lib Dems, who say the money would be better spent on targeted schemes at accident blackspots and known traffic problems.

At the decision session, held on Thursday evening, Lib Dem councillor Carol Runciman said: “The Liberal Democrat Group continue to believe that this money would be better spent if it was targeted on accident blackspots and high-risk areas. The blanket approach can ignore real safety issues and it is rather like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

“The experience from elsewhere in York is that many roads included in the blanket areas have low accident rates and often the average speeds are barely above 20mph anyway. I could give many examples of cul-de-sacs included in this scheme where you would be hard pressed to even get to 20mph.

“These plans will draw funding away from the areas where there is a real need to act, such as tackling speeding on New Lane. We also think It is premature to allocate another £235,000 before the results from the earlier schemes in York have been properly analysed.”

She also said the limits were being introduced with no regard for residents’ views, and while many local people simply wanted to see existing speed limits enforced.

Coun Runciman said: “The dangers of not properly consulting residents on transport changes and not building a consensus were shown this week with the Lendal Bridge debacle. There is a lesson to be learnt there.”

The council has so far spent a total of £238,000 on rolling out the scheme in South Bank and west York, and has allocated the further £235,000 for the north and east York roll-outs in 2014/15.

Comments (36)

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10:31am Sat 12 Apr 14

YOUWILLDOASISAY says...

The council’s cabinet member for transport, Dave Merrett, approved spending £235,000 on the next stage of the controversial project.

Because your listening to the residents, Leopards and spots.
The council’s cabinet member for transport, Dave Merrett, approved spending £235,000 on the next stage of the controversial project. Because your listening to the residents, Leopards and spots. YOUWILLDOASISAY
  • Score: -47

10:33am Sat 12 Apr 14

Thislittleold market town says...

Lunatics running the asylum
Lunatics running the asylum Thislittleold market town
  • Score: -5

10:56am Sat 12 Apr 14

acomblass says...

I would have thought that Cllrs Merrett and Semnlyen would have learned their lesson by now and realised that whatever they say makes little difference - we shall continue to do what we have done for some months - ignore their petty restrictions and hobby horses. They are now lame ducks with an even lamer duck as a leader and the sooner they are gone the better.
I would have thought that Cllrs Merrett and Semnlyen would have learned their lesson by now and realised that whatever they say makes little difference - we shall continue to do what we have done for some months - ignore their petty restrictions and hobby horses. They are now lame ducks with an even lamer duck as a leader and the sooner they are gone the better. acomblass
  • Score: -26

11:20am Sat 12 Apr 14

The OX says...

In the Groves area it has been a 20mph area for a number of years its never worked, and never seen it be enforced, so yet another waste of cash by the Merrett muppet show, use the cash to pay back the fines you took from ppl at Lendal Bridge scam save it coming out of the tax payers pocket
In the Groves area it has been a 20mph area for a number of years its never worked, and never seen it be enforced, so yet another waste of cash by the Merrett muppet show, use the cash to pay back the fines you took from ppl at Lendal Bridge scam save it coming out of the tax payers pocket The OX
  • Score: -62

11:20am Sat 12 Apr 14

Bad magic says...

They just never learn, do they?
They just never learn, do they? Bad magic
  • Score: -53

11:28am Sat 12 Apr 14

strangebuttrue? says...

Yes more of our hard earned money down the drain courtesy of a councillor with no ears. I asked the other day how much more damage, I refer to pointless street clutter and expense in this case, could this man do before we are able to get rid of him. Had the resignation come after the Lendal Bridge debacle this would probably have not got through as it is widely opposed by the majority. I am sure we can look forward to many more millions of our money being spent as rapidly as possible in the death throws of his tenure.
Yes more of our hard earned money down the drain courtesy of a councillor with no ears. I asked the other day how much more damage, I refer to pointless street clutter and expense in this case, could this man do before we are able to get rid of him. Had the resignation come after the Lendal Bridge debacle this would probably have not got through as it is widely opposed by the majority. I am sure we can look forward to many more millions of our money being spent as rapidly as possible in the death throws of his tenure. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -46

11:46am Sat 12 Apr 14

Daname says...

It beggars belief that these councillors are allowed to spend tax payers money in such a frivolous and wasteful manner. If the council was a business they'd all be sacked for gross misconduct. Their arrogance is breath taking.
It beggars belief that these councillors are allowed to spend tax payers money in such a frivolous and wasteful manner. If the council was a business they'd all be sacked for gross misconduct. Their arrogance is breath taking. Daname
  • Score: -49

11:56am Sat 12 Apr 14

the-e-man says...

What do you expect from a Labour controlled Council. Labour make a mess of everything they do. Unless they change their ways I will never vote for them. Just look at the mess the last Labour Government in the form of Blair, Brown, Milliband and Balls left us in. And Milliband and Balls are still there and want to do it all again !
What do you expect from a Labour controlled Council. Labour make a mess of everything they do. Unless they change their ways I will never vote for them. Just look at the mess the last Labour Government in the form of Blair, Brown, Milliband and Balls left us in. And Milliband and Balls are still there and want to do it all again ! the-e-man
  • Score: -33

12:04pm Sat 12 Apr 14

oldgoat says...

Its a relief that we can vote these idiots out next year.

I can understand 20mph limits around schools and similar, but having them down side streets where 15mph is a good speed to reach is just daft.
Its a relief that we can vote these idiots out next year. I can understand 20mph limits around schools and similar, but having them down side streets where 15mph is a good speed to reach is just daft. oldgoat
  • Score: -24

12:10pm Sat 12 Apr 14

bravo whisky says...

Yet more thousands of taxpayers pounds being thrown down the drain by this labour Council. These 20mph signs have become like cyclists illegally riding on pavements, no one takes any notice of them.
Yet more thousands of taxpayers pounds being thrown down the drain by this labour Council. These 20mph signs have become like cyclists illegally riding on pavements, no one takes any notice of them. bravo whisky
  • Score: -26

12:30pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Back and Beyond says...

How can the council allow the spending of these amounts of money whilst they are not clear over whether they have to repay all the money collected from fines on Lendal Bridge?
How can the council allow the spending of these amounts of money whilst they are not clear over whether they have to repay all the money collected from fines on Lendal Bridge? Back and Beyond
  • Score: -25

1:07pm Sat 12 Apr 14

gjh says...

the-e-man wrote:
What do you expect from a Labour controlled Council. Labour make a mess of everything they do. Unless they change their ways I will never vote for them. Just look at the mess the last Labour Government in the form of Blair, Brown, Milliband and Balls left us in. And Milliband and Balls are still there and want to do it all again !
I agree the Labour Government left the country in a mess, but the divisive Coalition shower in charge now have caused even greater damage. As for UKIP, well if they are the answer, Heaven help us all.
[quote][p][bold]the-e-man[/bold] wrote: What do you expect from a Labour controlled Council. Labour make a mess of everything they do. Unless they change their ways I will never vote for them. Just look at the mess the last Labour Government in the form of Blair, Brown, Milliband and Balls left us in. And Milliband and Balls are still there and want to do it all again ![/p][/quote]I agree the Labour Government left the country in a mess, but the divisive Coalition shower in charge now have caused even greater damage. As for UKIP, well if they are the answer, Heaven help us all. gjh
  • Score: -43

1:22pm Sat 12 Apr 14

bolero says...

This idiot Merrett is no better than a criminal. We will be counting the cost of this lunatics wasteful ways long after he's gone in May 2015. And as for the Lib Dems; well we're still counting the cost of the Clifton Green debacle and the Fulford debacle so better you just keep it shut. You've paid the price for your blundering and labour should take note of the cost just as Gordon Brown did..
This idiot Merrett is no better than a criminal. We will be counting the cost of this lunatics wasteful ways long after he's gone in May 2015. And as for the Lib Dems; well we're still counting the cost of the Clifton Green debacle and the Fulford debacle so better you just keep it shut. You've paid the price for your blundering and labour should take note of the cost just as Gordon Brown did.. bolero
  • Score: -6

1:52pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Woody G Mellor says...

Pathetic waste of money on something the residents of York don't need, don't want and totally ignore anyway.

Merrett and Semnlyen OUT!
Pathetic waste of money on something the residents of York don't need, don't want and totally ignore anyway. Merrett and Semnlyen OUT! Woody G Mellor
  • Score: -18

1:54pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Buzzz Light-year says...

Another one sneaked in while we're all distracted by the bridge.

I've more than had enough of them, devious sneaky, arrogant beggars!
Another one sneaked in while we're all distracted by the bridge. I've more than had enough of them, devious sneaky, arrogant beggars! Buzzz Light-year
  • Score: 63

4:32pm Sat 12 Apr 14

MorkofYork says...

Yeah there's still no one paying any attention to the ones we have now, so this is not money well spent.
The one good thing is that the more signs you put up, the more your incompetence is there on show for everyone to see.
Yeah there's still no one paying any attention to the ones we have now, so this is not money well spent. The one good thing is that the more signs you put up, the more your incompetence is there on show for everyone to see. MorkofYork
  • Score: -161

5:13pm Sat 12 Apr 14

YOUWILLDOASISAY says...

This totally devalues the 20mph speed limits in areas where they are seen as required, e.g. schools.

York Labour Council a prime example in how to waste money and render sensible applications pointless.

Another project that will need to be rescinded so that 20mph limits can again have genuine meaning based on reasoning.
This totally devalues the 20mph speed limits in areas where they are seen as required, e.g. schools. York Labour Council a prime example in how to waste money and render sensible applications pointless. Another project that will need to be rescinded so that 20mph limits can again have genuine meaning based on reasoning. YOUWILLDOASISAY
  • Score: -195

6:29pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Can't all be wrong says...

This will be only one more example of Merrett getting his own back on those who are opposed to his megalomania. He's going to use our money to show us who's the boss. Mark my words there will be an endless raft of new anti car initiatives.
This will be only one more example of Merrett getting his own back on those who are opposed to his megalomania. He's going to use our money to show us who's the boss. Mark my words there will be an endless raft of new anti car initiatives. Can't all be wrong
  • Score: -22

6:59pm Sat 12 Apr 14

MorkofYork says...

I don't need signs to tell me to be careful around schools, it's a foregone conclusion. If there's anybody who's not careful, the signs are not going to make one jot of difference.

Thin end of the wedge springs to mind.
I don't need signs to tell me to be careful around schools, it's a foregone conclusion. If there's anybody who's not careful, the signs are not going to make one jot of difference. Thin end of the wedge springs to mind. MorkofYork
  • Score: -38

8:38pm Sat 12 Apr 14

MorkofYork says...

Has anyone even bother to check if there's a problem with people going over 20 around schools when it's busy ? Or are we just going to keep wrapping this argument up in an emotional package ? "20 yeah yeah absolutely" ?

Yeah people should do 20 or less when it's busy but as far as i can see they already do.

To say we need the limits when it's not busy is to say we need 20mph everywhere.
Has anyone even bother to check if there's a problem with people going over 20 around schools when it's busy ? Or are we just going to keep wrapping this argument up in an emotional package ? "20 yeah yeah absolutely" ? Yeah people should do 20 or less when it's busy but as far as i can see they already do. To say we need the limits when it's not busy is to say we need 20mph everywhere. MorkofYork
  • Score: -54

8:41pm Sat 12 Apr 14

bolero says...

bolero wrote:
This idiot Merrett is no better than a criminal. We will be counting the cost of this lunatics wasteful ways long after he's gone in May 2015. And as for the Lib Dems; well we're still counting the cost of the Clifton Green debacle and the Fulford debacle so better you just keep it shut. You've paid the price for your blundering and labour should take note of the cost just as Gordon Brown did..
Come along vote rigger,Wakey,wakey. My votes are increasing.
[quote][p][bold]bolero[/bold] wrote: This idiot Merrett is no better than a criminal. We will be counting the cost of this lunatics wasteful ways long after he's gone in May 2015. And as for the Lib Dems; well we're still counting the cost of the Clifton Green debacle and the Fulford debacle so better you just keep it shut. You've paid the price for your blundering and labour should take note of the cost just as Gordon Brown did..[/p][/quote]Come along vote rigger,Wakey,wakey. My votes are increasing. bolero
  • Score: -61

9:16pm Sat 12 Apr 14

MorkofYork says...

"as far as i can see they already do"

and i mean that has nothing to do with the signs, but the conditions of the road.
I live near Westfield, you can't do more than 10mph when it's busy.
"as far as i can see they already do" and i mean that has nothing to do with the signs, but the conditions of the road. I live near Westfield, you can't do more than 10mph when it's busy. MorkofYork
  • Score: -59

9:39pm Sat 12 Apr 14

MorkofYork says...

Do people disagree with me ? If so, why ? Short of the emotional connection i can't see why people would be for 20 limits around schools but not everywhere else. This is assuming people already don't go over 20 when it's busy because the roads are self limiting (which is my experience).
Do people disagree with me ? If so, why ? Short of the emotional connection i can't see why people would be for 20 limits around schools but not everywhere else. This is assuming people already don't go over 20 when it's busy because the roads are self limiting (which is my experience). MorkofYork
  • Score: -62

10:26pm Sat 12 Apr 14

courier46 says...

I live in the west and cannot see any difference in speed,if anything it`s faster.The idiots that go too fast always will because they can, there`s nothing to stop them(not enforced) Total waste of money,the farce goes on.
I live in the west and cannot see any difference in speed,if anything it`s faster.The idiots that go too fast always will because they can, there`s nothing to stop them(not enforced) Total waste of money,the farce goes on. courier46
  • Score: -65

10:52pm Sat 12 Apr 14

wallman says...

why do none car drivers want to slow drivers down?
why do none car drivers want to slow drivers down? wallman
  • Score: -80

8:59am Sun 13 Apr 14

roy_batty says...

Utter waste of money!
Utter waste of money! roy_batty
  • Score: -75

10:17am Sun 13 Apr 14

york_chap says...

A fraction of that money could've been spent teaching children that stepping into the road without looking and crossing between parked cars isn't a good idea. Problem solved.
A fraction of that money could've been spent teaching children that stepping into the road without looking and crossing between parked cars isn't a good idea. Problem solved. york_chap
  • Score: -87

10:21am Sun 13 Apr 14

york_chap says...

Also, why are car drivers blamed for the carelessness of pedestrians? The other day I was driving behind a bus (not in York) with a big advert on the back. It had some catchy slogan or other - the general gist of which was, drivers should be extra careful for pedestrians late at night when they've been out drinking because they often wander into the road.

Priceless.

I don't see any government posters warning pedestrians not to step in front of traffic whilst drunk.
Also, why are car drivers blamed for the carelessness of pedestrians? The other day I was driving behind a bus (not in York) with a big advert on the back. It had some catchy slogan or other - the general gist of which was, drivers should be extra careful for pedestrians late at night when they've been out drinking because they often wander into the road. Priceless. I don't see any government posters warning pedestrians not to step in front of traffic whilst drunk. york_chap
  • Score: -97

10:21am Sun 13 Apr 14

Woody G Mellor says...

MorkofYork wrote:
Do people disagree with me ? If so, why ? Short of the emotional connection i can't see why people would be for 20 limits around schools but not everywhere else. This is assuming people already don't go over 20 when it's busy because the roads are self limiting (which is my experience).
Take no notice of the minus scores. It's just some sad idiot who can't stand being on the losing side that's interfering with them.
[quote][p][bold]MorkofYork[/bold] wrote: Do people disagree with me ? If so, why ? Short of the emotional connection i can't see why people would be for 20 limits around schools but not everywhere else. This is assuming people already don't go over 20 when it's busy because the roads are self limiting (which is my experience).[/p][/quote]Take no notice of the minus scores. It's just some sad idiot who can't stand being on the losing side that's interfering with them. Woody G Mellor
  • Score: -95

10:31am Sun 13 Apr 14

courier46 says...

york_chap wrote:
A fraction of that money could've been spent teaching children that stepping into the road without looking and crossing between parked cars isn't a good idea. Problem solved.
That`s down to the parents,unfortunatly half of them cant look after themselves let alone teach there kids to watch the road and doing right from wrong
[quote][p][bold]york_chap[/bold] wrote: A fraction of that money could've been spent teaching children that stepping into the road without looking and crossing between parked cars isn't a good idea. Problem solved.[/p][/quote]That`s down to the parents,unfortunatly half of them cant look after themselves let alone teach there kids to watch the road and doing right from wrong courier46
  • Score: -89

10:38am Sun 13 Apr 14

courier46 says...

wallman wrote:
why do none car drivers want to slow drivers down?
I`m a car driver who wants to slow drivers down when there doing 40 and 50 in residential areas 30-33 mph fair enough.
[quote][p][bold]wallman[/bold] wrote: why do none car drivers want to slow drivers down?[/p][/quote]I`m a car driver who wants to slow drivers down when there doing 40 and 50 in residential areas 30-33 mph fair enough. courier46
  • Score: -99

1:05pm Sun 13 Apr 14

MorkofYork says...

I see respect for people and children but i don't see any respect for signs. There's speed humps right down the road, huge grass verges on both sides. You can see the paths are clear. If you want limits around schools but you don't stick to them you're a huge hypocrite. I don't see people sticking to them when there's no kids about because there's no one there to hit. Schools are safer off peak hours than most other streets.

20 limits are supported probably because you already don't do over 20 when there's kids about and it sounds right. In reality they do nothing.

Limits aren't meant to shackle drivers, they're there so we have a mark by which we can punish idiots who drive recklessly.
I see respect for people and children but i don't see any respect for signs. There's speed humps right down the road, huge grass verges on both sides. You can see the paths are clear. If you want limits around schools but you don't stick to them you're a huge hypocrite. I don't see people sticking to them when there's no kids about because there's no one there to hit. Schools are safer off peak hours than most other streets. 20 limits are supported probably because you already don't do over 20 when there's kids about and it sounds right. In reality they do nothing. Limits aren't meant to shackle drivers, they're there so we have a mark by which we can punish idiots who drive recklessly. MorkofYork
  • Score: -94

5:40pm Sun 13 Apr 14

MorkofYork says...

They seem to think, if one in a billion journeys results in an accident because someone is going over 20mph then the other 999 million must be reckless. It's not like that at all. 20mph limits are not based on facts on a road by road basis, they are an ideological push and they'll use whatever tactic they can to try and manipulate you.

They aren't enforceable because you're just doing people for being disobedient when they're not driving in an unsafe manner. It simply wouldn't be acceptable. The police won't touch it with a barge pole.
They seem to think, if one in a billion journeys results in an accident because someone is going over 20mph then the other 999 million must be reckless. It's not like that at all. 20mph limits are not based on facts on a road by road basis, they are an ideological push and they'll use whatever tactic they can to try and manipulate you. They aren't enforceable because you're just doing people for being disobedient when they're not driving in an unsafe manner. It simply wouldn't be acceptable. The police won't touch it with a barge pole. MorkofYork
  • Score: -93

6:26pm Sun 13 Apr 14

the-e-man says...

By the number of minus scores it appears that some nurd has hacked the site. To retain any creditability with the "comment" facility The Press need to get a grip with this problem - or am I missing something and is there another reason for the perverse number of minus scores.
By the number of minus scores it appears that some nurd has hacked the site. To retain any creditability with the "comment" facility The Press need to get a grip with this problem - or am I missing something and is there another reason for the perverse number of minus scores. the-e-man
  • Score: -111

10:55pm Sun 13 Apr 14

strangebuttrue? says...

the-e-man wrote:
By the number of minus scores it appears that some nurd has hacked the site. To retain any creditability with the "comment" facility The Press need to get a grip with this problem - or am I missing something and is there another reason for the perverse number of minus scores.
No your not missing anything it has been happening for months and the press are strangely silent on it until it comes to their on line poles then they take action which proves that the scores are being manipulated and they know it.
[quote][p][bold]the-e-man[/bold] wrote: By the number of minus scores it appears that some nurd has hacked the site. To retain any creditability with the "comment" facility The Press need to get a grip with this problem - or am I missing something and is there another reason for the perverse number of minus scores.[/p][/quote]No your not missing anything it has been happening for months and the press are strangely silent on it until it comes to their on line poles then they take action which proves that the scores are being manipulated and they know it. strangebuttrue?
  • Score: -28

3:38am Mon 14 Apr 14

Magicman! says...

“These plans will draw funding away from the areas where there is a real need to act, such as tackling speeding on New Lane. We also think It is premature to allocate another £235,000 before the results from the earlier schemes in York have been properly analysed.”


Exactly the point. Reduced speed limits work where they are targeted at areas with known problems or areas where slower speeds are required, such as outside schools and playing fields. The money would be far better spent on schemes to reduce speeds outside schools during term time when kids are in school. An idea could be that rising bollards are used on only one side of the road, which raise up between 8.30am and 4.30pm so as to create a chicane and thus prevent people from being able to make a beeline at 40mph straight down the road. I would also have Variable Message Signs fitted, which show 20mph during school time, and are otherwise blank outside those times so the normal 30mph or 40mph limit then applies.

Huntington New Lane has a few problems. One problem is certain locals who think it's a great idea for them to reverse out onto that busy road from their driveways, another problem is people who park on the compulsory cycle lane (parking on a compulsory cycle lane is illegal and can be enforced with a fine of £80 in some areas), then there is excess speed for what is a built up area, the road could do with being 1meter or 2meters wider due to the level of traffic it carries... and also again because of the levels of traffic it now carries (particularly for Monks Cross area), the section between Geldof Road and Jockey Lane really needs a lighting upgrade to pure white LED lights which are correctly rated for the level of traffic now carried on the road, instead of the current dim yellow lights currently installed which were fitted back in the 1970's when there were hardly any houses along the road nevermind shops and supermarkets.
[quote]“These plans will draw funding away from the areas where there is a real need to act, such as tackling speeding on New Lane. We also think It is premature to allocate another £235,000 before the results from the earlier schemes in York have been properly analysed.” [/quote] Exactly the point. Reduced speed limits work where they are targeted at areas with known problems or areas where slower speeds are required, such as outside schools and playing fields. The money would be far better spent on schemes to reduce speeds outside schools during term time when kids are in school. An idea could be that rising bollards are used on only one side of the road, which raise up between 8.30am and 4.30pm so as to create a chicane and thus prevent people from being able to make a beeline at 40mph straight down the road. I would also have Variable Message Signs fitted, which show 20mph during school time, and are otherwise blank outside those times so the normal 30mph or 40mph limit then applies. Huntington New Lane has a few problems. One problem is certain locals who think it's a great idea for them to reverse out onto that busy road from their driveways, another problem is people who park on the compulsory cycle lane (parking on a compulsory cycle lane is illegal and can be enforced with a fine of £80 in some areas), then there is excess speed for what is a built up area, the road could do with being 1meter or 2meters wider due to the level of traffic it carries... and also again because of the levels of traffic it now carries (particularly for Monks Cross area), the section between Geldof Road and Jockey Lane really needs a lighting upgrade to pure white LED lights which are correctly rated for the level of traffic now carried on the road, instead of the current dim yellow lights currently installed which were fitted back in the 1970's when there were hardly any houses along the road nevermind shops and supermarkets. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

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