A64 accidents prompt call for safety improvements

A64 accidents prompt call for safety improvements

Bin lorry and tractor crash on A64 near Tadcaster

The scene of the earlier crash at Bilbrough Top near Tadcaster

First published in News York Press: Photograph of the Author by , Chief reporter

A MAN was airlifted to hospital after being badly injured in the second of two accidents on the A64, which sparked calls for urgent safety improvements.

Firefighters cut the casualty free from the cab of a bin lorry after it collided with a tractor and trailer on the dual carriageway near Tadcaster at about 11.50am yesterday, causing the trailer to overturn.

He was flown to Leeds General Infirmary by the Yorkshire Air Ambulance, suffering from serious leg injuries.

Two other people in the cab did not need to go to hospital, said the Yorkshire Ambulance Service. The road was blocked for several hours.

The accident happened less than four hours after two cars and a van were involved in a crash at Bilbrough Top, between Tadcaster and York, which left the westbound carriageway blocked.

North Yorkshire Fire and Rescue Service said the crash at just after 8.10am involved three vehicles – a Ford Transit van, a Volkswagen Passat and a Renault Megane – and that one person had to be cut out of their car, but North Yorkshire Police said that nobody had been seriously injured.

The accident, which happened less than 100 metres from the scene of a fatal crash in late 2012, and close to where a pedestrian was killed last November, prompted fresh calls from the council to the Highways Agency and North Yorkshire Police to attend a meeting to consider ways in which safety could be improved at Bilbrough Top.

Local district councillor Richard Musgrave said: “I simply cannot accept that the number of accidents on this particular stretch of road have all been a coincidence.

“That’s why I would like all of the options to be considered so that we can work together to make the road safer, both for drivers and pedestrians. My view remains that the piece of road in question should be a 50mph zone.”

Selby and Ainsty MP Nigel Adams said he had written to the police and the Highways Agency to call for a meeting: “We all need to sit down around a table and take a look at all the factors – the bends, the camber, the road layout, the speed of vehicles – to see what needs to be done.”

Later, there was a third accident on the A64, near to the A659 Junction.

Comments (22)

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10:23am Fri 14 Mar 14

meme says...

Looking at the pictures its pretty obvious the bin lorry ran into the back of the tractor and trailer which would be going slowly
Its a fast road and needs to be and slow moving traffic are the issue here. Perhaps slow moving traffic should be limited to certain hours
its the same issue on the ring road where tractors regularly travel during rush hour and cause chaos and are an accident waiting to happen as people get impatient.
Looking at the pictures its pretty obvious the bin lorry ran into the back of the tractor and trailer which would be going slowly Its a fast road and needs to be and slow moving traffic are the issue here. Perhaps slow moving traffic should be limited to certain hours its the same issue on the ring road where tractors regularly travel during rush hour and cause chaos and are an accident waiting to happen as people get impatient. meme
  • Score: 1

10:46am Fri 14 Mar 14

The Great Buda says...

Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything.

Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed.

There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic.

Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done.
Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything. Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed. There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic. Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done. The Great Buda
  • Score: 17

10:52am Fri 14 Mar 14

THEWlZZARD says...

Get speed cameras on the A64 as soon as possible, mobile ones preferably, and make drivers concentrate. Anyone using that road regularly will be familiar with the sight of cars travelling at 80 or 90 mph, often the usual idiots in Audis and BMWs we see everywhere, then cutting into traffic to turn off at junctions. Speed cameras would pay for themselves in terms of fines and make the A64 look like a road rather than a racetrack.
Get speed cameras on the A64 as soon as possible, mobile ones preferably, and make drivers concentrate. Anyone using that road regularly will be familiar with the sight of cars travelling at 80 or 90 mph, often the usual idiots in Audis and BMWs we see everywhere, then cutting into traffic to turn off at junctions. Speed cameras would pay for themselves in terms of fines and make the A64 look like a road rather than a racetrack. THEWlZZARD
  • Score: 20

11:11am Fri 14 Mar 14

Fabius the Delayer says...

There do seem to be a very large number of accidents closing this road on a weekly basis
It is about time the A64 was upgraded to three lanes and motorway status
from Leeds to York and duel carriage way should be pushed all the way to west coast / Scarborough. This would do more for the economy than HS2 Farm vehicles and JCB's should be banished to the back roads,
There do seem to be a very large number of accidents closing this road on a weekly basis It is about time the A64 was upgraded to three lanes and motorway status from Leeds to York and duel carriage way should be pushed all the way to west coast / Scarborough. This would do more for the economy than HS2 Farm vehicles and JCB's should be banished to the back roads, Fabius the Delayer
  • Score: 6

11:13am Fri 14 Mar 14

THEWlZZARD says...

The Great Buda wrote:
Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything.

Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed.

There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic.

Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done.
Two of the three accidents yesterday had nothing to do with tractors. I agree that removing tractors from the road is a good idea but the vast majority of accidents on that road are due to speed and careless driving, not tractors. Where is the money to come from to upgrade to a motorway? If drivers used the road properly there would be no problem as it is not a capacity issue, its due to the madness of some of the users of this road.
[quote][p][bold]The Great Buda[/bold] wrote: Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything. Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed. There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic. Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done.[/p][/quote]Two of the three accidents yesterday had nothing to do with tractors. I agree that removing tractors from the road is a good idea but the vast majority of accidents on that road are due to speed and careless driving, not tractors. Where is the money to come from to upgrade to a motorway? If drivers used the road properly there would be no problem as it is not a capacity issue, its due to the madness of some of the users of this road. THEWlZZARD
  • Score: 13

11:27am Fri 14 Mar 14

york_chap says...

The first poster is quite right in what he/she says. At peak times I've been in tailbacks of up to 1 mile caused by JCBs, farm vehicles and large cranes travelling at around 25mph. Once the tailback reaches 1/2 a mile or so, the traffic at the back of the queue is almost stationary, which poses an even bigger risk to approaching traffic. This crash happened at 11am so a peak-time ban wouldn't have helped in this instance, but it is certainly worth considering. Also, that bin lorry would most likely be limited to 50/55mph, so a 50mph speed limit would not have helped here either.

It always amazes me how many collisions occur on this stretch of road, but I'm not sure anything short of upgrading the road to motorway, straightening it out and putting in pedestrian bridges would prevent the majority of them.
The first poster is quite right in what he/she says. At peak times I've been in tailbacks of up to 1 mile caused by JCBs, farm vehicles and large cranes travelling at around 25mph. Once the tailback reaches 1/2 a mile or so, the traffic at the back of the queue is almost stationary, which poses an even bigger risk to approaching traffic. This crash happened at 11am so a peak-time ban wouldn't have helped in this instance, but it is certainly worth considering. Also, that bin lorry would most likely be limited to 50/55mph, so a 50mph speed limit would not have helped here either. It always amazes me how many collisions occur on this stretch of road, but I'm not sure anything short of upgrading the road to motorway, straightening it out and putting in pedestrian bridges would prevent the majority of them. york_chap
  • Score: 7

11:48am Fri 14 Mar 14

inthesticks says...

THEWlZZARD wrote:
The Great Buda wrote:
Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything.

Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed.

There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic.

Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done.
Two of the three accidents yesterday had nothing to do with tractors. I agree that removing tractors from the road is a good idea but the vast majority of accidents on that road are due to speed and careless driving, not tractors. Where is the money to come from to upgrade to a motorway? If drivers used the road properly there would be no problem as it is not a capacity issue, its due to the madness of some of the users of this road.
The money could come from the skewed imbalance of our tax that goes to pay for transport infrastructure and schemes in London. Over 80% of what we contribute goes to London. We get pennies in comparison and therefore our roads and businesses suffer.
The money is there in the pot but we don`t get our share. Over to you Mr Sturdy, I remember your promises on your pre election literature.
[quote][p][bold]THEWlZZARD[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Great Buda[/bold] wrote: Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything. Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed. There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic. Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done.[/p][/quote]Two of the three accidents yesterday had nothing to do with tractors. I agree that removing tractors from the road is a good idea but the vast majority of accidents on that road are due to speed and careless driving, not tractors. Where is the money to come from to upgrade to a motorway? If drivers used the road properly there would be no problem as it is not a capacity issue, its due to the madness of some of the users of this road.[/p][/quote]The money could come from the skewed imbalance of our tax that goes to pay for transport infrastructure and schemes in London. Over 80% of what we contribute goes to London. We get pennies in comparison and therefore our roads and businesses suffer. The money is there in the pot but we don`t get our share. Over to you Mr Sturdy, I remember your promises on your pre election literature. inthesticks
  • Score: -20

11:55am Fri 14 Mar 14

The Great Buda says...

THEWlZZARD wrote:
The Great Buda wrote:
Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything.

Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed.

There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic.

Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done.
Two of the three accidents yesterday had nothing to do with tractors. I agree that removing tractors from the road is a good idea but the vast majority of accidents on that road are due to speed and careless driving, not tractors. Where is the money to come from to upgrade to a motorway? If drivers used the road properly there would be no problem as it is not a capacity issue, its due to the madness of some of the users of this road.
Drivers do use the road porperly, and there are often speed camera vans on that section. Let alone marked and un-marked police cars. You seem to be white washing the main reason: Its a lack of capacity.

Anyone who uses that road in the morning and evening rush hours will know exactly how bad it is. Its not possible to speed during these times due to the sheer volume of traffic trying to use the road. It gets worse over Easter and the Summer, why does it get worse? Because there are yet more cars trying to use it.

Too little space, combined with poorly sighted junctions, crossing and turnings is a mix made for disaster.

Its not a surprise that a lot of accidents occur where the outer ringroad joins the A64, its an awfully designed junction with too much traffic having to merge in a very short space of time. A three lane Motorway from that junction running all the way to the M1 will improve safety vastly.
[quote][p][bold]THEWlZZARD[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Great Buda[/bold] wrote: Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything. Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed. There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic. Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done.[/p][/quote]Two of the three accidents yesterday had nothing to do with tractors. I agree that removing tractors from the road is a good idea but the vast majority of accidents on that road are due to speed and careless driving, not tractors. Where is the money to come from to upgrade to a motorway? If drivers used the road properly there would be no problem as it is not a capacity issue, its due to the madness of some of the users of this road.[/p][/quote]Drivers do use the road porperly, and there are often speed camera vans on that section. Let alone marked and un-marked police cars. You seem to be white washing the main reason: Its a lack of capacity. Anyone who uses that road in the morning and evening rush hours will know exactly how bad it is. Its not possible to speed during these times due to the sheer volume of traffic trying to use the road. It gets worse over Easter and the Summer, why does it get worse? Because there are yet more cars trying to use it. Too little space, combined with poorly sighted junctions, crossing and turnings is a mix made for disaster. Its not a surprise that a lot of accidents occur where the outer ringroad joins the A64, its an awfully designed junction with too much traffic having to merge in a very short space of time. A three lane Motorway from that junction running all the way to the M1 will improve safety vastly. The Great Buda
  • Score: 8

11:59am Fri 14 Mar 14

SRT_CM says...

I commute to Leeds for work every day via the A64, and as york_chap says, I'm constantly amazed at how many accidents there are.

There does seem to be an awful lot of farm vehicles, cranes, etc. using the road between York and the A1(M) at peak times, however I think one of the main issues with these vehicles that can cause congestion is driver's attitudes to overtaking them.

People don't seem to wait until they're nearer the (for example) tractor, instead everyone moves into lane 2 and you end up with two lanes' worth of traffic in one lane, causing a longer queue in lane 2 and no cars at all in lane 1. Then you end up with some cars flying down the empty lane and forcing their way in nearer the front, which of course can lead to accidents.

Not sure what measures could be put into place to improve overall safety, but attitude-wise it just seems to be an aggressive road. Not a single journey to or from Leeds goes by without people getting right up others' backsides, excessive speeding, changing lanes without indicating or without a safe amount of space to do so, etc.
I commute to Leeds for work every day via the A64, and as york_chap says, I'm constantly amazed at how many accidents there are. There does seem to be an awful lot of farm vehicles, cranes, etc. using the road between York and the A1(M) at peak times, however I think one of the main issues with these vehicles that can cause congestion is driver's attitudes to overtaking them. People don't seem to wait until they're nearer the (for example) tractor, instead everyone moves into lane 2 and you end up with two lanes' worth of traffic in one lane, causing a longer queue in lane 2 and no cars at all in lane 1. Then you end up with some cars flying down the empty lane and forcing their way in nearer the front, which of course can lead to accidents. Not sure what measures could be put into place to improve overall safety, but attitude-wise it just seems to be an aggressive road. Not a single journey to or from Leeds goes by without people getting right up others' backsides, excessive speeding, changing lanes without indicating or without a safe amount of space to do so, etc. SRT_CM
  • Score: 14

12:02pm Fri 14 Mar 14

SRT_CM says...

The Great Buda, you make an excellent point about the ring road junction.

That's where I come off the A64 on my way home, and as soon as you get a queue of traffic on the relatively short ramp up to the roundabout you end up with a queue snaking out into lane 1 of the A64 itself.
The Great Buda, you make an excellent point about the ring road junction. That's where I come off the A64 on my way home, and as soon as you get a queue of traffic on the relatively short ramp up to the roundabout you end up with a queue snaking out into lane 1 of the A64 itself. SRT_CM
  • Score: 8

12:03pm Fri 14 Mar 14

Night Moves says...

THEWlZZARD wrote:
Get speed cameras on the A64 as soon as possible, mobile ones preferably, and make drivers concentrate. Anyone using that road regularly will be familiar with the sight of cars travelling at 80 or 90 mph, often the usual idiots in Audis and BMWs we see everywhere, then cutting into traffic to turn off at junctions. Speed cameras would pay for themselves in terms of fines and make the A64 look like a road rather than a racetrack.
There are mobile speed cameras regularly at 4 locations between Hopgrove and Tadcaster and have been for over a year now and how much good do they really do? They need to put proper road policing back on the roads with marked and unmarked cars which can actually do something about the overall standard of driving not just this never ending concentration on speed at set locations. Oh and by the way I drive a BMW, a very fast one, and your blanket jibe at Audis and BMW's does you no service at all. If drivers drove properly, all of them, whatever the make of car as there are bad and inconsiderate drivers in all categories, the roads would be a safer place. There are dangerous slow drivers as well as fast ones. It does not just being a fast driver that makes you dangerous. Better driving standards as a whole is the only answer.
[quote][p][bold]THEWlZZARD[/bold] wrote: Get speed cameras on the A64 as soon as possible, mobile ones preferably, and make drivers concentrate. Anyone using that road regularly will be familiar with the sight of cars travelling at 80 or 90 mph, often the usual idiots in Audis and BMWs we see everywhere, then cutting into traffic to turn off at junctions. Speed cameras would pay for themselves in terms of fines and make the A64 look like a road rather than a racetrack.[/p][/quote]There are mobile speed cameras regularly at 4 locations between Hopgrove and Tadcaster and have been for over a year now and how much good do they really do? They need to put proper road policing back on the roads with marked and unmarked cars which can actually do something about the overall standard of driving not just this never ending concentration on speed at set locations. Oh and by the way I drive a BMW, a very fast one, and your blanket jibe at Audis and BMW's does you no service at all. If drivers drove properly, all of them, whatever the make of car as there are bad and inconsiderate drivers in all categories, the roads would be a safer place. There are dangerous slow drivers as well as fast ones. It does not just being a fast driver that makes you dangerous. Better driving standards as a whole is the only answer. Night Moves
  • Score: 5

12:20pm Fri 14 Mar 14

BioLogic says...

THEWlZZARD wrote:
The Great Buda wrote:
Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything.

Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed.

There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic.

Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done.
Two of the three accidents yesterday had nothing to do with tractors. I agree that removing tractors from the road is a good idea but the vast majority of accidents on that road are due to speed and careless driving, not tractors. Where is the money to come from to upgrade to a motorway? If drivers used the road properly there would be no problem as it is not a capacity issue, its due to the madness of some of the users of this road.
What utter tosh! Madness of some road users?? The A64 is a major arterial road which should have been upgraded to A64(M) status from York westwards a long time ago. The major junctions are all now in place, it is a case of removing the other smaller accesses and removing slow moving vehicles.

Ultimately having accesses which don't give people the opportunity to reach 70mph before joining the road creates greater risk, but the use and capacity needs of this road have been increasing steadily over the years, which lead to the removal of the Copmanthorpe lights, the new Bilborough top junction etc. It would be foolish now to try and step backwards and restrict speeds, much better to ensure the road flows safely. It's not an appropriate road for farm traffic, cycles or pedestrians, the traffic flows are too heavy and too fast. Many of these accidents are as a result of clashes of these competing uses. It would not make any difference to the survivability of an accident between a pedestrian and a car if the collision was at 50mph instead of 70mph. Likewise, the collision between the bin lorry and the tractor would have been unaffected by a 50mph speed limit. Speed is not the problem, inappropriate speed is, and sometimes the inappropriate speed can actually be the slow one.
[quote][p][bold]THEWlZZARD[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Great Buda[/bold] wrote: Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything. Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed. There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic. Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done.[/p][/quote]Two of the three accidents yesterday had nothing to do with tractors. I agree that removing tractors from the road is a good idea but the vast majority of accidents on that road are due to speed and careless driving, not tractors. Where is the money to come from to upgrade to a motorway? If drivers used the road properly there would be no problem as it is not a capacity issue, its due to the madness of some of the users of this road.[/p][/quote]What utter tosh! Madness of some road users?? The A64 is a major arterial road which should have been upgraded to A64(M) status from York westwards a long time ago. The major junctions are all now in place, it is a case of removing the other smaller accesses and removing slow moving vehicles. Ultimately having accesses which don't give people the opportunity to reach 70mph before joining the road creates greater risk, but the use and capacity needs of this road have been increasing steadily over the years, which lead to the removal of the Copmanthorpe lights, the new Bilborough top junction etc. It would be foolish now to try and step backwards and restrict speeds, much better to ensure the road flows safely. It's not an appropriate road for farm traffic, cycles or pedestrians, the traffic flows are too heavy and too fast. Many of these accidents are as a result of clashes of these competing uses. It would not make any difference to the survivability of an accident between a pedestrian and a car if the collision was at 50mph instead of 70mph. Likewise, the collision between the bin lorry and the tractor would have been unaffected by a 50mph speed limit. Speed is not the problem, inappropriate speed is, and sometimes the inappropriate speed can actually be the slow one. BioLogic
  • Score: -21

1:16pm Fri 14 Mar 14

Stevie D says...

It's difficult – the traffic flow figures for the A64 between York and A1(M) are similar to plenty of other 2-lane dual-carriageways, which don't seem to have the same problems. I would say that the A64 feels busier, but maybe it is more concentrated around busy times.

Certainly the very low standard of junctions, including bus stops, farm accesses, restaurants/pubs and service stations, on the A64 is a significant factor in why the road has such a bad accident rate. Even major junctions like the A162 and A1237 are horrendous, not to mention the minor ones. Many of the other roads with similar traffic flows have better separation of local traffic (like the York By-pass does between Copmanthorpe and Hopgrove).

I'm not convinced that a 50mph speed limit would make a huge difference. At busy times, traffic is nose-to-tail and not going a whole lot faster than that, so given that people won't keep to the limit exactly, it's unlikely to see any significant change of speed. And at quiet times, the road is fine for 70mph. As for speed cameras – there is no one blackspot that the cameras are needed for, and there are regular police patrols that are more effective in improving road safety.

SRT_CM wrote:
There does seem to be an awful lot of farm vehicles, cranes, etc. using the road between York and the A1(M) at peak times, however I think one of the main issues with these vehicles that can cause congestion is driver's attitudes to overtaking them.

People don't seem to wait until they're nearer the (for example) tractor, instead everyone moves into lane 2 and you end up with two lanes' worth of traffic in one lane, causing a longer queue in lane 2 and no cars at all in lane 1. Then you end up with some cars flying down the empty lane and forcing their way in nearer the front, which of course can lead to accidents.

I completely understand why drivers pull out early when there's something slow up ahead, and I don't think it is as bad a problem as you suggest. Given how busy the road is, and how much tailgating there is (it's one of the worst roads I know for that), if leave it too late to pull out you are in danger of finding that there is no gap to pull into and no drivers willing to let you out ... and suddenly you're catching up a tractor with a closing speed of 30-40mph, and you've got to have really good reactions to pull out into a tight gap or slam on the brakes and tuck in behind the tractor, but then you are stuck behind it and you've got little chance of pulling out into a constant stream of traffic going 40mph faster ... but why is it so bad? Yes, it makes the queue in lane 2 longer, but it means that people can get into the outside lane when it's safer and they haven't got to worry about not running into the back of the tractor. You will still get the same number of cars past the tractor, whether they all get into lane 2 early or leave it til the last minute, so you're not reducing the capacity of the road.
It's difficult – the traffic flow figures for the A64 between York and A1(M) are similar to plenty of other 2-lane dual-carriageways, which don't seem to have the same problems. I would say that the A64 [italic]feels[/italic] busier, but maybe it is more concentrated around busy times. Certainly the very low standard of junctions, including bus stops, farm accesses, restaurants/pubs and service stations, on the A64 is a significant factor in why the road has such a bad accident rate. Even major junctions like the A162 and A1237 are horrendous, not to mention the minor ones. Many of the other roads with similar traffic flows have better separation of local traffic (like the York By-pass does between Copmanthorpe and Hopgrove). I'm not convinced that a 50mph speed limit would make a huge difference. At busy times, traffic is nose-to-tail and not going a whole lot faster than that, so given that people won't keep to the limit exactly, it's unlikely to see any significant change of speed. And at quiet times, the road is fine for 70mph. As for speed cameras – there is no one blackspot that the cameras are needed for, and there are regular police patrols that are more effective in improving road safety. [quote][bold]SRT_CM[/bold] wrote: There does seem to be an awful lot of farm vehicles, cranes, etc. using the road between York and the A1(M) at peak times, however I think one of the main issues with these vehicles that can cause congestion is driver's attitudes to overtaking them. People don't seem to wait until they're nearer the (for example) tractor, instead everyone moves into lane 2 and you end up with two lanes' worth of traffic in one lane, causing a longer queue in lane 2 and no cars at all in lane 1. Then you end up with some cars flying down the empty lane and forcing their way in nearer the front, which of course can lead to accidents.[/quote] I completely understand why drivers pull out early when there's something slow up ahead, and I don't think it is as bad a problem as you suggest. Given how busy the road is, and how much tailgating there is (it's one of the worst roads I know for that), if leave it too late to pull out you are in danger of finding that there is no gap to pull into and no drivers willing to let you out ... and suddenly you're catching up a tractor with a closing speed of 30-40mph, and you've got to have [italic]really[/italic] good reactions to pull out into a tight gap or slam on the brakes and tuck in behind the tractor, but then you are stuck behind it and you've got little chance of pulling out into a constant stream of traffic going 40mph faster ... but why is it so bad? Yes, it makes the queue in lane 2 longer, but it means that people can get into the outside lane when it's safer and they haven't got to worry about not running into the back of the tractor. You will still get the same number of cars past the tractor, whether they all get into lane 2 early or leave it til the last minute, so you're not reducing the capacity of the road. Stevie D
  • Score: 34

1:35pm Fri 14 Mar 14

SRT_CM says...

Stevie D wrote:
It's difficult – the traffic flow figures for the A64 between York and A1(M) are similar to plenty of other 2-lane dual-carriageways, which don't seem to have the same problems. I would say that the A64 feels busier, but maybe it is more concentrated around busy times.

Certainly the very low standard of junctions, including bus stops, farm accesses, restaurants/pubs and service stations, on the A64 is a significant factor in why the road has such a bad accident rate. Even major junctions like the A162 and A1237 are horrendous, not to mention the minor ones. Many of the other roads with similar traffic flows have better separation of local traffic (like the York By-pass does between Copmanthorpe and Hopgrove).

I'm not convinced that a 50mph speed limit would make a huge difference. At busy times, traffic is nose-to-tail and not going a whole lot faster than that, so given that people won't keep to the limit exactly, it's unlikely to see any significant change of speed. And at quiet times, the road is fine for 70mph. As for speed cameras – there is no one blackspot that the cameras are needed for, and there are regular police patrols that are more effective in improving road safety.

SRT_CM wrote:
There does seem to be an awful lot of farm vehicles, cranes, etc. using the road between York and the A1(M) at peak times, however I think one of the main issues with these vehicles that can cause congestion is driver's attitudes to overtaking them.

People don't seem to wait until they're nearer the (for example) tractor, instead everyone moves into lane 2 and you end up with two lanes' worth of traffic in one lane, causing a longer queue in lane 2 and no cars at all in lane 1. Then you end up with some cars flying down the empty lane and forcing their way in nearer the front, which of course can lead to accidents.

I completely understand why drivers pull out early when there's something slow up ahead, and I don't think it is as bad a problem as you suggest. Given how busy the road is, and how much tailgating there is (it's one of the worst roads I know for that), if leave it too late to pull out you are in danger of finding that there is no gap to pull into and no drivers willing to let you out ... and suddenly you're catching up a tractor with a closing speed of 30-40mph, and you've got to have really good reactions to pull out into a tight gap or slam on the brakes and tuck in behind the tractor, but then you are stuck behind it and you've got little chance of pulling out into a constant stream of traffic going 40mph faster ... but why is it so bad? Yes, it makes the queue in lane 2 longer, but it means that people can get into the outside lane when it's safer and they haven't got to worry about not running into the back of the tractor. You will still get the same number of cars past the tractor, whether they all get into lane 2 early or leave it til the last minute, so you're not reducing the capacity of the road.
I understand the mindset behind pulling out early to get around slow-moving traffic ahead, be it farm or haulage vehicles, but half a mile or more behind, leaving all that room in lane 1? It's a far too frequent cause of congestion, I see it every day, usually on both legs of my commute.

But my point is, that if everyone who's moved into lane 2 was actually using the lanes properly, i.e. for overtaking, then you would get a faster flow of traffic past the slow-moving vehicle, leaving less congestion in the vicinity, which could then be affecting entry and exit on and off the A64.

What you're saying about tailgating is completely valid, but that goes back to my point about finding it an aggressive road to drive on. And if there was a way to knock that on the head you wouldn't end up with people having to move into lane 2 far earlier than necessary for fear of not being able to overtake at all.
[quote][p][bold]Stevie D[/bold] wrote: It's difficult – the traffic flow figures for the A64 between York and A1(M) are similar to plenty of other 2-lane dual-carriageways, which don't seem to have the same problems. I would say that the A64 [italic]feels[/italic] busier, but maybe it is more concentrated around busy times. Certainly the very low standard of junctions, including bus stops, farm accesses, restaurants/pubs and service stations, on the A64 is a significant factor in why the road has such a bad accident rate. Even major junctions like the A162 and A1237 are horrendous, not to mention the minor ones. Many of the other roads with similar traffic flows have better separation of local traffic (like the York By-pass does between Copmanthorpe and Hopgrove). I'm not convinced that a 50mph speed limit would make a huge difference. At busy times, traffic is nose-to-tail and not going a whole lot faster than that, so given that people won't keep to the limit exactly, it's unlikely to see any significant change of speed. And at quiet times, the road is fine for 70mph. As for speed cameras – there is no one blackspot that the cameras are needed for, and there are regular police patrols that are more effective in improving road safety. [quote][bold]SRT_CM[/bold] wrote: There does seem to be an awful lot of farm vehicles, cranes, etc. using the road between York and the A1(M) at peak times, however I think one of the main issues with these vehicles that can cause congestion is driver's attitudes to overtaking them. People don't seem to wait until they're nearer the (for example) tractor, instead everyone moves into lane 2 and you end up with two lanes' worth of traffic in one lane, causing a longer queue in lane 2 and no cars at all in lane 1. Then you end up with some cars flying down the empty lane and forcing their way in nearer the front, which of course can lead to accidents.[/quote] I completely understand why drivers pull out early when there's something slow up ahead, and I don't think it is as bad a problem as you suggest. Given how busy the road is, and how much tailgating there is (it's one of the worst roads I know for that), if leave it too late to pull out you are in danger of finding that there is no gap to pull into and no drivers willing to let you out ... and suddenly you're catching up a tractor with a closing speed of 30-40mph, and you've got to have [italic]really[/italic] good reactions to pull out into a tight gap or slam on the brakes and tuck in behind the tractor, but then you are stuck behind it and you've got little chance of pulling out into a constant stream of traffic going 40mph faster ... but why is it so bad? Yes, it makes the queue in lane 2 longer, but it means that people can get into the outside lane when it's safer and they haven't got to worry about not running into the back of the tractor. You will still get the same number of cars past the tractor, whether they all get into lane 2 early or leave it til the last minute, so you're not reducing the capacity of the road.[/p][/quote]I understand the mindset behind pulling out early to get around slow-moving traffic ahead, be it farm or haulage vehicles, but half a mile or more behind, leaving all that room in lane 1? It's a far too frequent cause of congestion, I see it every day, usually on both legs of my commute. But my point is, that if everyone who's moved into lane 2 was actually using the lanes properly, i.e. for overtaking, then you would get a faster flow of traffic past the slow-moving vehicle, leaving less congestion in the vicinity, which could then be affecting entry and exit on and off the A64. What you're saying about tailgating is completely valid, but that goes back to my point about finding it an aggressive road to drive on. And if there was a way to knock that on the head you wouldn't end up with people having to move into lane 2 far earlier than necessary for fear of not being able to overtake at all. SRT_CM
  • Score: 29

5:26pm Fri 14 Mar 14

carpon says...

I rest my case with this North/South divide. I live near Bilbrough Top and heard the emergency services and knew from experience where they were going.
I hate speed cameras but for this busy junction with minimal slip roads onto the A64, I would like to see average speed cameras at 40 mph, this been staggered from the national speed limit at least two miles from Tadcaster west up to the Copmanthorpe turn off. How many more people need to die or be injured before something is done. Speed and stupidity kills. As for the farmers, well they say they work 24 hours, so why do they choose to cause a crawling blockade using red diesel in peak commuting times!
I rest my case with this North/South divide. I live near Bilbrough Top and heard the emergency services and knew from experience where they were going. I hate speed cameras but for this busy junction with minimal slip roads onto the A64, I would like to see average speed cameras at 40 mph, this been staggered from the national speed limit at least two miles from Tadcaster west up to the Copmanthorpe turn off. How many more people need to die or be injured before something is done. Speed and stupidity kills. As for the farmers, well they say they work 24 hours, so why do they choose to cause a crawling blockade using red diesel in peak commuting times! carpon
  • Score: 6

6:38pm Fri 14 Mar 14

THEWlZZARD says...

BioLogic wrote:
THEWlZZARD wrote:
The Great Buda wrote:
Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything.

Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed.

There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic.

Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done.
Two of the three accidents yesterday had nothing to do with tractors. I agree that removing tractors from the road is a good idea but the vast majority of accidents on that road are due to speed and careless driving, not tractors. Where is the money to come from to upgrade to a motorway? If drivers used the road properly there would be no problem as it is not a capacity issue, its due to the madness of some of the users of this road.
What utter tosh! Madness of some road users?? The A64 is a major arterial road which should have been upgraded to A64(M) status from York westwards a long time ago. The major junctions are all now in place, it is a case of removing the other smaller accesses and removing slow moving vehicles.

Ultimately having accesses which don't give people the opportunity to reach 70mph before joining the road creates greater risk, but the use and capacity needs of this road have been increasing steadily over the years, which lead to the removal of the Copmanthorpe lights, the new Bilborough top junction etc. It would be foolish now to try and step backwards and restrict speeds, much better to ensure the road flows safely. It's not an appropriate road for farm traffic, cycles or pedestrians, the traffic flows are too heavy and too fast. Many of these accidents are as a result of clashes of these competing uses. It would not make any difference to the survivability of an accident between a pedestrian and a car if the collision was at 50mph instead of 70mph. Likewise, the collision between the bin lorry and the tractor would have been unaffected by a 50mph speed limit. Speed is not the problem, inappropriate speed is, and sometimes the inappropriate speed can actually be the slow one.
Another one who thinks there is a bottomless pit of money with no understanding of modern budgets which explains the garbage that they have just posted. OK, lets take the money from the NHS to pay for our local racetrack to be upgraded to satisfy the drivers who want to drive at 80 or 90mph. Then when your child or aged relative is denied life-saving treatment or you're at the bottom of an NHS waiting list you can go and look at your nice new motorway as that will be the consolation.

Its about time people like you realise there is NOT a bottomless pit of money. The A64 problems can be solved by low cost measures and not tens of millions buying up land and making another motorway.

Think before you write out your wish list, we can't have everything.

The A64 is treated like a racetrack by a few selfish impatient drivers and this is what causes accidents. Its not all tractors or farm vehicles, its idiots who abuse speed limits and break the law.
[quote][p][bold]BioLogic[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]THEWlZZARD[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Great Buda[/bold] wrote: Agreed meme, I don't think slowing the traffic down will achieve anything. Limiting what can and cannot use it will. Tractors are not allowed on Motorways for a very good reason. Now I know they have to use them to get about, but that to me means the A64 needs to be upgraded and changed. Better junctions and more ways of crossing the road are needed. There's a lot of talk that the A64 should be duel carrigeway past the Hopgrove, and it should, but it should also be three lane Motorway from York to the M1. There are plenty of other routes that can be upgraded to allow easier passing for non-Motorway traffic. Sadly though, this is the North not London, so nothing will be done.[/p][/quote]Two of the three accidents yesterday had nothing to do with tractors. I agree that removing tractors from the road is a good idea but the vast majority of accidents on that road are due to speed and careless driving, not tractors. Where is the money to come from to upgrade to a motorway? If drivers used the road properly there would be no problem as it is not a capacity issue, its due to the madness of some of the users of this road.[/p][/quote]What utter tosh! Madness of some road users?? The A64 is a major arterial road which should have been upgraded to A64(M) status from York westwards a long time ago. The major junctions are all now in place, it is a case of removing the other smaller accesses and removing slow moving vehicles. Ultimately having accesses which don't give people the opportunity to reach 70mph before joining the road creates greater risk, but the use and capacity needs of this road have been increasing steadily over the years, which lead to the removal of the Copmanthorpe lights, the new Bilborough top junction etc. It would be foolish now to try and step backwards and restrict speeds, much better to ensure the road flows safely. It's not an appropriate road for farm traffic, cycles or pedestrians, the traffic flows are too heavy and too fast. Many of these accidents are as a result of clashes of these competing uses. It would not make any difference to the survivability of an accident between a pedestrian and a car if the collision was at 50mph instead of 70mph. Likewise, the collision between the bin lorry and the tractor would have been unaffected by a 50mph speed limit. Speed is not the problem, inappropriate speed is, and sometimes the inappropriate speed can actually be the slow one.[/p][/quote]Another one who thinks there is a bottomless pit of money with no understanding of modern budgets which explains the garbage that they have just posted. OK, lets take the money from the NHS to pay for our local racetrack to be upgraded to satisfy the drivers who want to drive at 80 or 90mph. Then when your child or aged relative is denied life-saving treatment or you're at the bottom of an NHS waiting list you can go and look at your nice new motorway as that will be the consolation. Its about time people like you realise there is NOT a bottomless pit of money. The A64 problems can be solved by low cost measures and not tens of millions buying up land and making another motorway. Think before you write out your wish list, we can't have everything. The A64 is treated like a racetrack by a few selfish impatient drivers and this is what causes accidents. Its not all tractors or farm vehicles, its idiots who abuse speed limits and break the law. THEWlZZARD
  • Score: 1

7:47pm Fri 14 Mar 14

tew123 says...

I was involved in an accident with a van that pulled straight out into me at the controversial slip road just outside the petrol station on the westbound carriageway at Bilbrough Top 5 years ago. I commute to Leeds everyday and I agree with all the comments above and it's very worrying that the powers that be have still not deduced there is a serious problem here. How many more accidents, injuries and deaths do they need to make some changes? In the meantime all I would say is please fellow commuters think about your speed, actions, road rage .. believe me it's not worth it. All the drivers that overtake me at horrendous speeds are only ever 1 car in front when I reach York, be safe and get home alive not DEAD for the sake of 5 minutes. Until you have a crash and realise just how quickly life can be snatched away, you do not appreciate the consequences of yours and others actions. Speed control, lighting, removing unsuitable vehicles and upgrading the road are all great suggestions but wont happen overnight.
I was involved in an accident with a van that pulled straight out into me at the controversial slip road just outside the petrol station on the westbound carriageway at Bilbrough Top 5 years ago. I commute to Leeds everyday and I agree with all the comments above and it's very worrying that the powers that be have still not deduced there is a serious problem here. How many more accidents, injuries and deaths do they need to make some changes? In the meantime all I would say is please fellow commuters think about your speed, actions, road rage .. believe me it's not worth it. All the drivers that overtake me at horrendous speeds are only ever 1 car in front when I reach York, be safe and get home alive not DEAD for the sake of 5 minutes. Until you have a crash and realise just how quickly life can be snatched away, you do not appreciate the consequences of yours and others actions. Speed control, lighting, removing unsuitable vehicles and upgrading the road are all great suggestions but wont happen overnight. tew123
  • Score: 4

8:21pm Fri 14 Mar 14

SRT_CM says...

That's a good post, tew123.

Coming home from Leeds tonight on the A64 I got exactly what I expected…

Tailgaters, slow moving vehicles (couple of lorries and a couple of cars), people that must've been doing 80+ as they went past me and then were only a car or two ahead when coming off onto the ring road…

One guy pulled into lane 1 ahead of me and took the ring road exit while I was indicating to come off the dual carriageway after passing the 100 yards sign. Had to slam on the breaks to avoid going into the back of him.

I've been involved in a high speed crash before, that all involved were lucky to walk away from.

Don't need to be in another one just trying to get home from work!
That's a good post, tew123. Coming home from Leeds tonight on the A64 I got exactly what I expected… Tailgaters, slow moving vehicles (couple of lorries and a couple of cars), people that must've been doing 80+ as they went past me and then were only a car or two ahead when coming off onto the ring road… One guy pulled into lane 1 ahead of me and took the ring road exit while I was indicating to come off the dual carriageway after passing the 100 yards sign. Had to slam on the breaks to avoid going into the back of him. I've been involved in a high speed crash before, that all involved were lucky to walk away from. Don't need to be in another one just trying to get home from work! SRT_CM
  • Score: 0

3:24am Sat 15 Mar 14

Magicman! says...

The A64 along Bilbrough Top is a bit dodgy, but some solutions would make it easier...

- (a) The entrance and exit from the Little Chef should be closed; a new 'back entrance' should be formed coming from the turning for Bilbrough village and the overbridge, the turning going behind the petrol station - more or elss a reflection of access to the services on the westbound carriageway.

- (a) Ideally if space allowed for it, the small access road to the houses by the Little Chef on the eastbound carriageway should be isolated from the A64 and instead go through the service area to the new entrance/exit road described in the above point.

- (b) Alternatively to (a), both eastbound and westbound services would have seperate entrance and exit sliproads. The eastbound entrance would be the same but have a longer 'feed in', whilst the exit would go onto the sliproad from Bilbrough village and the overbridge. the westbound services exit would have to go behind the hotel and onto the A64. The advantages of this could be that Yorkshire Coastliner services are routed through the service areas and pick up / drop off passengers there, so as to not have vehicles stopping dead on the A64 itself and at the same time removing pedestrians getting off the bus from beside the road and closer to the overbridge.

- a safety barrier should be errected beside the A64 on both sides between the carriageway and adjacent pathway, preventing the possibility of either a vehicle coming off the A64 and straight into a pedestrian/cyclist on the pathway at 70mph and killing them or a car coming off the A64 in the middle of the night into a ditch and not being spotted for several hours by which point the person inside has died... the safety barrier sould go from the small cottage about half a mile before Bilbrough Top services (eastbound) until the Buckles Inn, same for westbound.

- due to the distance between eastbound and westbound service areas via the current overbridge for pedestrians, consideration should be given to a new shared use pedestrian/cyclist grade seperated crossing of the A64 just west of the Little Chef; either a tunnel or bridge.

- consideration might also be given to providing illumination of the carriageway through the Bilbrough Top area using LED lanterns.

... these ideas would make the road safer for most users without the need for speed reductions; primarily because it provides greater seperation of faster and slower moving traffic.

-----

As for the bin lorry in the photo, take a good look at it and what appears to be the case is that the bin lorry is in lane 2 and the tractor has simply tried to pull out in front of it without enough space.


As for an A64 motorway - if a motorway was provided between York and Bramham Crossroads, a seperate road would have to be provided for 'prohibited traffic' (non-motorway vehicles); this has been done with the A1(M) from Bramham Crossroads through Wetherby and on to Dishforth. Also too the question of route would be worth considering:- a motorway spur terminating at Hopgrove roundabout as it is currently is not permitted, it would need to be a freeflow junction with the A64 on to Malton being dual carriageway... but the thought occurs that perhaps a motorway route would be better using the A64 to Askham bryan and then, still as a motorway with full freeflow, using the current A1237 route to Rawcliffe bar and then going the route of the A19 still as a motorway to teesside.
The A64 along Bilbrough Top is a bit dodgy, but some solutions would make it easier... - (a) The entrance and exit from the Little Chef should be closed; a new 'back entrance' should be formed coming from the turning for Bilbrough village and the overbridge, the turning going behind the petrol station - more or elss a reflection of access to the services on the westbound carriageway. - (a) Ideally if space allowed for it, the small access road to the houses by the Little Chef on the eastbound carriageway should be isolated from the A64 and instead go through the service area to the new entrance/exit road described in the above point. - (b) Alternatively to (a), both eastbound and westbound services would have seperate entrance and exit sliproads. The eastbound entrance would be the same but have a longer 'feed in', whilst the exit would go onto the sliproad from Bilbrough village and the overbridge. the westbound services exit would have to go behind the hotel and onto the A64. The advantages of this could be that Yorkshire Coastliner services are routed through the service areas and pick up / drop off passengers there, so as to not have vehicles stopping dead on the A64 itself and at the same time removing pedestrians getting off the bus from beside the road and closer to the overbridge. - a safety barrier should be errected beside the A64 on both sides between the carriageway and adjacent pathway, preventing the possibility of either a vehicle coming off the A64 and straight into a pedestrian/cyclist on the pathway at 70mph and killing them or a car coming off the A64 in the middle of the night into a ditch and not being spotted for several hours by which point the person inside has died... the safety barrier sould go from the small cottage about half a mile before Bilbrough Top services (eastbound) until the Buckles Inn, same for westbound. - due to the distance between eastbound and westbound service areas via the current overbridge for pedestrians, consideration should be given to a new shared use pedestrian/cyclist grade seperated crossing of the A64 just west of the Little Chef; either a tunnel or bridge. - consideration might also be given to providing illumination of the carriageway through the Bilbrough Top area using LED lanterns. ... these ideas would make the road safer for most users without the need for speed reductions; primarily because it provides greater seperation of faster and slower moving traffic. ----- As for the bin lorry in the photo, take a good look at it and what appears to be the case is that the bin lorry is in lane 2 and the tractor has simply tried to pull out in front of it without enough space. As for an A64 motorway - if a motorway was provided between York and Bramham Crossroads, a seperate road would have to be provided for 'prohibited traffic' (non-motorway vehicles); this has been done with the A1(M) from Bramham Crossroads through Wetherby and on to Dishforth. Also too the question of route would be worth considering:- a motorway spur terminating at Hopgrove roundabout as it is currently is not permitted, it would need to be a freeflow junction with the A64 on to Malton being dual carriageway... but the thought occurs that perhaps a motorway route would be better using the A64 to Askham bryan and then, still as a motorway with full freeflow, using the current A1237 route to Rawcliffe bar and then going the route of the A19 still as a motorway to teesside. Magicman!
  • Score: 0

8:27am Sat 15 Mar 14

again says...

Bring on the driverless, robot cars.

A staggering amount of peoples' time is wasted driving, an occupation that demands low skill but high concentration. It rarely gets the latter.

After over a century we are still using the same basic technology that is quite simply dangerous.
Bring on the driverless, robot cars. A staggering amount of peoples' time is wasted driving, an occupation that demands low skill but high concentration. It rarely gets the latter. After over a century we are still using the same basic technology that is quite simply dangerous. again
  • Score: -1

1:13am Sun 16 Mar 14

Stevie D says...

Magicman! wrote:
a motorway spur terminating at Hopgrove roundabout as it is currently is not permitted

Is that a recent change? The M271, M4, M65 (both ends), M49, M50 (both ends), A404(M), M45, M67 (both ends), M58, M180, A194(M) and M9 all come to an abrupt halt at a roundabout without a freeflow junction.
but the thought occurs that perhaps a motorway route would be better using the A64 to Askham bryan and then, still as a motorway with full freeflow, using the current A1237 route to Rawcliffe bar and then going the route of the A19 still as a motorway to teesside

No, I don't agree with that at all. If the A19 to Teesside is made motorway then the logical and obvious route to connect it to A1(M) is the A168 to Dishforth, which is not far off motorway standard already. Likewise, the A64 round the southern side of York wouldn't need masses of work to bring it up to motorway standard (and it wouldn't be unreasonable to simply revoke the right of way access along it). The A19 between York and Thirsk isn't busy enough to warrant upgrading to even a regular dual-carriageway, let alone a motorway.
[quote][bold]Magicman![/bold] wrote: a motorway spur terminating at Hopgrove roundabout as it is currently is not permitted[/quote] Is that a recent change? The M271, M4, M65 (both ends), M49, M50 (both ends), A404(M), M45, M67 (both ends), M58, M180, A194(M) and M9 all come to an abrupt halt at a roundabout without a freeflow junction. [quote]but the thought occurs that perhaps a motorway route would be better using the A64 to Askham bryan and then, still as a motorway with full freeflow, using the current A1237 route to Rawcliffe bar and then going the route of the A19 still as a motorway to teesside[/quote] No, I don't agree with that at all. If the A19 to Teesside is made motorway then the logical and obvious route to connect it to A1(M) is the A168 to Dishforth, which is not far off motorway standard already. Likewise, the A64 round the southern side of York wouldn't need masses of work to bring it up to motorway standard (and it wouldn't be unreasonable to simply revoke the right of way access along it). The A19 between York and Thirsk isn't busy enough to warrant upgrading to even a regular dual-carriageway, let alone a motorway. Stevie D
  • Score: 0

1:18am Sun 16 Mar 14

Stevie D says...

carpon wrote:
I rest my case with this North/South divide. I live near Bilbrough Top and heard the emergency services and knew from experience where they were going.
I hate speed cameras but for this busy junction with minimal slip roads onto the A64, I would like to see average speed cameras at 40 mph, this been staggered from the national speed limit at least two miles from Tadcaster west up to the Copmanthorpe turn off. How many more people need to die or be injured before something is done. Speed and stupidity kills. As for the farmers, well they say they work 24 hours, so why do they choose to cause a crawling blockade using red diesel in peak commuting times!
A 40mph speed limit for a 2-lane dual-carriageway with reasonable sightlines and no access across the carriageway would be absolutely farcical, and would probably be open to legal challenge. Fortunately the Highways Agency (who are responsible for A64) take a far more sensible view of speed limits than local councils, who tend to apply ridiculously low limits as knee-jerk reactions to people whinging in local newspapers about alleged speeding and dangerous driving, regardless of evidence (see the joke 40mph speed limit at Deighton and the success of the Twenty's Plenty witch's projects across York).

The A64 does not need a much reduced speed limit. If the limit was reduced to 60mph, I could accept that given the number and nature of access points, but anything less than that would fly in the face of all evidence and would give the message loud and clear to drivers that speed limits are not set in relation to any concept of "safe speed".
[quote][p][bold]carpon[/bold] wrote: I rest my case with this North/South divide. I live near Bilbrough Top and heard the emergency services and knew from experience where they were going. I hate speed cameras but for this busy junction with minimal slip roads onto the A64, I would like to see average speed cameras at 40 mph, this been staggered from the national speed limit at least two miles from Tadcaster west up to the Copmanthorpe turn off. How many more people need to die or be injured before something is done. Speed and stupidity kills. As for the farmers, well they say they work 24 hours, so why do they choose to cause a crawling blockade using red diesel in peak commuting times![/p][/quote]A 40mph speed limit for a 2-lane dual-carriageway with reasonable sightlines and no access [italic]across[/italic] the carriageway would be absolutely farcical, and would probably be open to legal challenge. Fortunately the Highways Agency (who are responsible for A64) take a far more sensible view of speed limits than local councils, who tend to apply ridiculously low limits as knee-jerk reactions to people whinging in local newspapers about alleged speeding and dangerous driving, regardless of evidence (see the joke 40mph speed limit at Deighton and the success of the Twenty's Plenty witch's projects across York). The A64 does [bold]not[/bold] need a much reduced speed limit. If the limit was reduced to 60mph, I could accept that given the number and nature of access points, but anything less than that would fly in the face of all evidence and would give the message loud and clear to drivers that speed limits are not set in relation to any concept of "safe speed". Stevie D
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