Lendal Bridge questions row breaks out

Lendal Bridge on the first day of the closure scheme last year

Lendal Bridge on the first day of the closure scheme last year

Updated in News York Press: Photograph of the Author by , Political Reporter

YORK’S transport chief has been accused of evading “difficult” questions on the controversial Lendal Bridge traffic restrictions.

A series of written queries were put to Coun Dave Merrett, cabinet member for transport, ahead of December’s meeting of City of York Council.

Liberal Democrat councillor Ann Reid asked several questions seeking precise answers, but such information was not provided in Coun Merrett’s answers. There was not time in the meeting for verbal answers, but he provided a written response afterwards.

Labour said he had addressed all questions but the exchange sparked criticism from former council leader Steve Galloway, who said Coun Merrett failed to answer six questions on the bridge trial and traffic restrictions in Coppergate.

He said requiring cabinet members to respond to councillors at full council meetings had been one of the authority’s “checks and balances”, and the time between questions being submitted and answers being provided allowed time for research. He said Labour circulated answers several days after meetings, removing the chance for follow-up questions. “This lack of scrutiny provides cabinet members with an opportunity to avoid answering difficult questions,” he said.

A Labour spokesman said: “Steve Galloway had no issue with the current system for council questions when he was council leader, yet does since losing an election and his position on the council. Coun Merrett has responded to all questions put to him and explained he will respond in further detail where relevant data is not yet currently available.”

More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available. The council has said the ban on private traffic between 10.30am and 5pm will speed up bus journeys and cut pollution, but critics say it has increased congestion elsewhere and is harming city-centre businesses and York’s image due to the number of visitors being fined.

 

Those questions and the replies from Coun Merrett

The questions: On the Lendal Bridge/Coppergate restrictions, could the cabinet member confirm the following figures:

•The number of appeals lodged each week since the beginning of August against penalty charge notices issued for contraventions of traffic restrictions on Coppergate and Lendal Bridge.

•The number of appeals which have been successful each week.

•The total revenue the council has received so far from penalty charges following the introduction of the new restrictions.

•The weekly changes to journey times (all modes of transport) on each arterial road and on each section of the inner ring road since the introduction of the new traffic restrictions.

•The number of accidents reported on roads in the city-centre, comparing the last three months with the equivalent period in 2012.

•The latest air quality monitoring reports for key sites in and close to the city-centre.

Coun Merrett’s response:

Data is being “harvested” for vehicle travel times across the city and far more detailed information will be published in the new year.

Travel time data for radial arterial routes for Park&Ride has already been published, and this clearly demonstrates that the restriction has not led to the “dire effect on traffic” nor the gridlock anticipated by some.

Traffic flow data for these radial routes reinforces this. Buses using the bridge are showing significant reductions in travel times – with average times from Clarence Street to Rougier Street reducing by four to five minutes and two to three minutes in the reverse direction.

Improvements in vehicle flow have been observed at the station frontage, Lendal Arch Gyratory, Museum Street, St Leonard’s Place, Bootham, Gillygate, Clarence Street and Lord Mayor’s Walk. Water End has seen an increase in traffic volume (as was predicted) although Clifton Green is generally coping well with the additional traffic, albeit with some late afternoon pressures at the junction. Signal adjustment has been undertaken and the situation continues to be monitored.

Skeldergate Bridge, Walmgate Bar and Foss Islands Road have seen increases in traffic (as was predicted) and some increase in the level of delay. The traffic control centre continues to actively manage the traffic to help minimise the impact.

There is a lag of three to four months between an accident being reported to the police and it being available for analysis on our accident database. People have 28 days to report injury accidents and the data then requires inputting and validating by the police and the council. Data for September, October and November 2013 will become available in the new year.

 

• Council officials have revealed the legal guidance that they say influenced their signs for the Lendal Bridge restrictions.

City of York Council has faced widespread criticism over its signs notifying people of the restrictions, but has repeatedly said its signs complied with legal guidance from the Department for Transport.

The authority says that guidance was from the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (TSRGD 2002), and subsequent amendments and said the detailed layout was in accordance with Chapter 7 of the DfT's Traffic Signs Manual.

York Lib Dem leader Keith Aspden said: “As we have been saying to the Labour cabinet since the first day of the Lendal Bridge trial, the signage is not clear enough. Unfortunately it appears that residents and visitors are not being listened to.”

He said the issue was not the legality of the signs, but whether motorists would see and understand them.

Comments (43)

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12:25pm Sat 4 Jan 14

chelk says...

Merrett's answers are basically non answers exactly what you expect from so called politicians. This lot will manipulate everything to look good. The Muppet Show rolls on. On another note hoping the Moron who adjusts the scores will give me at least minus 500 this time
Merrett's answers are basically non answers exactly what you expect from so called politicians. This lot will manipulate everything to look good. The Muppet Show rolls on. On another note hoping the Moron who adjusts the scores will give me at least minus 500 this time chelk
  • Score: -16

12:33pm Sat 4 Jan 14

marvell says...

Labour have cynically changed procedure so that they no longer have to answer advance questions in person at council meetings. This removes any accountability in person and allows incompetent councillors such as Merrett to hide behind written answers instead of looking stupid in front of their peers.

Having watched the last full council meeting - Julie Gunnel's chairing was so shambolic that little more than 30% of the Agenda was completed, further removing accountability.
Labour have cynically changed procedure so that they no longer have to answer advance questions in person at council meetings. This removes any accountability in person and allows incompetent councillors such as Merrett to hide behind written answers instead of looking stupid in front of their peers. Having watched the last full council meeting - Julie Gunnel's chairing was so shambolic that little more than 30% of the Agenda was completed, further removing accountability. marvell
  • Score: -14

1:17pm Sat 4 Jan 14

Osbaldwick Lad says...

From experience I do believe that the average bus times from Clarence Street to Rougier Street have been reduced. However the Rougier Street bus stop for a number 6 bus travelling towards the University is a timed stop. Any saving made is cancelled out by a longer wait for the bus to depart. My last journey on Thursday resulted in a wait of 8 minutes.
From experience I do believe that the average bus times from Clarence Street to Rougier Street have been reduced. However the Rougier Street bus stop for a number 6 bus travelling towards the University is a timed stop. Any saving made is cancelled out by a longer wait for the bus to depart. My last journey on Thursday resulted in a wait of 8 minutes. Osbaldwick Lad
  • Score: 58

1:28pm Sat 4 Jan 14

JasBro says...

Pathetic responses from Cllr Merrett.
Pathetic responses from Cllr Merrett. JasBro
  • Score: -13

2:33pm Sat 4 Jan 14

PKH says...

Re visitors on Monkgate there are sighs saying Lendal Bridge restricted, but visitors will not know what/where Lendal Bridge is, yet there is still traffic signs saying inner ringroad pointing in the direction of Lendal Bridge is there any wonder they are confused, if I was a visitor to a City or Town I would not expect to find the inner ringroad closed to ordinary traffic for part of the day.
Re visitors on Monkgate there are sighs saying Lendal Bridge restricted, but visitors will not know what/where Lendal Bridge is, yet there is still traffic signs saying inner ringroad pointing in the direction of Lendal Bridge is there any wonder they are confused, if I was a visitor to a City or Town I would not expect to find the inner ringroad closed to ordinary traffic for part of the day. PKH
  • Score: -14

2:40pm Sat 4 Jan 14

pedalling paul says...

Many a prosecution has been thrown out court because some signage or road markings were not precisely in line with the DfT requirements. Seems as if the Council is being damned by critics because they do comply, and would doubtless be equally damned if they did not.
At the end of the day, the transport bullet must be bitten. Never mind the ease with which some residents wish to travel today. Without this kind of radical action, York will become gridlocked for future generations. Look beyond the next elections, and many of your lifetimes.
Many a prosecution has been thrown out court because some signage or road markings were not precisely in line with the DfT requirements. Seems as if the Council is being damned by critics because they do comply, and would doubtless be equally damned if they did not. At the end of the day, the transport bullet must be bitten. Never mind the ease with which some residents wish to travel today. Without this kind of radical action, York will become gridlocked for future generations. Look beyond the next elections, and many of your lifetimes. pedalling paul
  • Score: 29

3:03pm Sat 4 Jan 14

JasBro says...

But what about democracy Paul?

The bridge closure is deeply unpopular and was never supported by an electoral vote.

The Labour party left these plans out of their manifesto, they lied to the public about the consequences, they didn't set any benchmarks for the trial's success or failure, and have been rolling out the propaganda and lies ever since.

Does this not bother you at all?

As for future generations, well in my lifetime I've seen them pull up railway lines which we are now desperate for, so the transport planners are obviously incompetent, and you certainly don't have a magic crystal ball.

So let's judge the situation on the here and now, shall we? Traffic in the city has fallen year on year, but congestion and pollution has increased. The policies of the hidden traffic planners are failing and are costing hard working people time and money, and that includes the police, ambulance services, disabled people, and many others.
But what about democracy Paul? The bridge closure is deeply unpopular and was never supported by an electoral vote. The Labour party left these plans out of their manifesto, they lied to the public about the consequences, they didn't set any benchmarks for the trial's success or failure, and have been rolling out the propaganda and lies ever since. Does this not bother you at all? As for future generations, well in my lifetime I've seen them pull up railway lines which we are now desperate for, so the transport planners are obviously incompetent, and you certainly don't have a magic crystal ball. So let's judge the situation on the here and now, shall we? Traffic in the city has fallen year on year, but congestion and pollution has increased. The policies of the hidden traffic planners are failing and are costing hard working people time and money, and that includes the police, ambulance services, disabled people, and many others. JasBro
  • Score: -12

4:19pm Sat 4 Jan 14

spiritofyork says...

2015 the year we finally get these pseudo-communists out and finally welcome in York's first Tory council for years. Only then will this city get back on track.
2015 the year we finally get these pseudo-communists out and finally welcome in York's first Tory council for years. Only then will this city get back on track. spiritofyork
  • Score: -11

4:57pm Sat 4 Jan 14

eeoodares says...

Wait until the election and vote them out and keep them out for at least a generation! Elected representatives must never be able to act like this again.
Wait until the election and vote them out and keep them out for at least a generation! Elected representatives must never be able to act like this again. eeoodares
  • Score: -17

6:20pm Sat 4 Jan 14

piaggio1 says...

Peddaling? Idiot...425 ?
Mint. Somethings amiss.me thinks....big time.
Peddaling? Idiot...425 ? Mint. Somethings amiss.me thinks....big time. piaggio1
  • Score: 23

6:22pm Sat 4 Jan 14

PKH says...

spiritofyork wrote:
2015 the year we finally get these pseudo-communists out and finally welcome in York's first Tory council for years. Only then will this city get back on track.
The Tories shored up the previous LibDem council which were just as bad, I think the Monster Raving Loony Party could not make a worse job than any of the main parties.
[quote][p][bold]spiritofyork[/bold] wrote: 2015 the year we finally get these pseudo-communists out and finally welcome in York's first Tory council for years. Only then will this city get back on track.[/p][/quote]The Tories shored up the previous LibDem council which were just as bad, I think the Monster Raving Loony Party could not make a worse job than any of the main parties. PKH
  • Score: 78

7:17pm Sat 4 Jan 14

matroom says...

I want loads of negative votes for this post !!!!
I want loads of negative votes for this post !!!! matroom
  • Score: 29

7:35pm Sat 4 Jan 14

AlanAtClifton says...

Quote - "Water End has seen an increase in traffic volume (as was predicted) although Clifton Green is generally coping well with the additional traffic, albeit with some late afternoon pressures at the junction. Signal adjustment has been undertaken and the situation continues to be monitored.

Skeldergate Bridge, Walmgate Bar and Foss Islands Road have seen increases in traffic (as was predicted) and some increase in the level of delay."

So this is an indication of the success of closing Lendal Bridge - I DON'T THINK SO ! ! !

If the timings of traffic lights at major junctions have been changed, since the start of the trial, then surely than makes a nonsense of any comparison of the "before trial" and "after trial" journey times and traffic flow statistics.
Quote - "Water End has seen an increase in traffic volume (as was predicted) although Clifton Green is generally coping well with the additional traffic, albeit with some late afternoon pressures at the junction. Signal adjustment has been undertaken and the situation continues to be monitored. Skeldergate Bridge, Walmgate Bar and Foss Islands Road have seen increases in traffic (as was predicted) and some increase in the level of delay." So this is an indication of the success of closing Lendal Bridge - I DON'T THINK SO ! ! ! If the timings of traffic lights at major junctions have been changed, since the start of the trial, then surely than makes a nonsense of any comparison of the "before trial" and "after trial" journey times and traffic flow statistics. AlanAtClifton
  • Score: -11

9:17pm Sat 4 Jan 14

beretta says...

More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available.
Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????
More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available. Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong?????? beretta
  • Score: -11

10:53pm Sat 4 Jan 14

AnotherPointofView says...

beretta wrote:
More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available.
Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????
Of course it does but the councillors are not listening.
[quote][p][bold]beretta[/bold] wrote: More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available. Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????[/p][/quote]Of course it does but the councillors are not listening. AnotherPointofView
  • Score: -9

9:27am Sun 5 Jan 14

sniper 9964 says...

Coppergate has always been closed to private vehicles through the day. Irs olny a slight change in hours. Get over it. Lendal bridge is clearly signed. And more so dft recognised signs are in place IE enforcement cameras
Coppergate has always been closed to private vehicles through the day. Irs olny a slight change in hours. Get over it. Lendal bridge is clearly signed. And more so dft recognised signs are in place IE enforcement cameras sniper 9964
  • Score: 12

12:14pm Sun 5 Jan 14

yorkandproud says...

pedalling paul wrote:
Many a prosecution has been thrown out court because some signage or road markings were not precisely in line with the DfT requirements. Seems as if the Council is being damned by critics because they do comply, and would doubtless be equally damned if they did not.
At the end of the day, the transport bullet must be bitten. Never mind the ease with which some residents wish to travel today. Without this kind of radical action, York will become gridlocked for future generations. Look beyond the next elections, and many of your lifetimes.
I was a bus driver in York around 40 years ago. I really don't think there are many more cars using the City Centre roads than there was in 1975. This is mainly due to the great park and ride system. Much of the traffic hold ups are caused by the erratic timing or the traffic lights around the city. These crucial areas, namely Bootham/ Gillygate, Nunnery Lane , Holgate Road, and The Mount areas, need to be managed better. Basically the inner ring road is where the problem with traffic lies. Closing the inner ring road at Lendal Bridge is a waste of time. It just moves traffic elsewhere, causing no improvement generally. Pedalling Paul refuses to change his thinking, and listen to other ideas, unless it involves push bikes somewhere along the line. Sadly, the Labour council is being manipulated by Merrett , Alexander and there cronies, who refuse to listen to sensible views.
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Many a prosecution has been thrown out court because some signage or road markings were not precisely in line with the DfT requirements. Seems as if the Council is being damned by critics because they do comply, and would doubtless be equally damned if they did not. At the end of the day, the transport bullet must be bitten. Never mind the ease with which some residents wish to travel today. Without this kind of radical action, York will become gridlocked for future generations. Look beyond the next elections, and many of your lifetimes.[/p][/quote]I was a bus driver in York around 40 years ago. I really don't think there are many more cars using the City Centre roads than there was in 1975. This is mainly due to the great park and ride system. Much of the traffic hold ups are caused by the erratic timing or the traffic lights around the city. These crucial areas, namely Bootham/ Gillygate, Nunnery Lane , Holgate Road, and The Mount areas, need to be managed better. Basically the inner ring road is where the problem with traffic lies. Closing the inner ring road at Lendal Bridge is a waste of time. It just moves traffic elsewhere, causing no improvement generally. Pedalling Paul refuses to change his thinking, and listen to other ideas, unless it involves push bikes somewhere along the line. Sadly, the Labour council is being manipulated by Merrett , Alexander and there cronies, who refuse to listen to sensible views. yorkandproud
  • Score: -11

2:40pm Sun 5 Jan 14

mjgyork says...

beretta wrote:
More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available.
Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????
No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.
[quote][p][bold]beretta[/bold] wrote: More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available. Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????[/p][/quote]No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council. mjgyork
  • Score: 9

4:37pm Sun 5 Jan 14

Igiveinthen says...

yorkandproud wrote:
pedalling paul wrote:
Many a prosecution has been thrown out court because some signage or road markings were not precisely in line with the DfT requirements. Seems as if the Council is being damned by critics because they do comply, and would doubtless be equally damned if they did not.
At the end of the day, the transport bullet must be bitten. Never mind the ease with which some residents wish to travel today. Without this kind of radical action, York will become gridlocked for future generations. Look beyond the next elections, and many of your lifetimes.
I was a bus driver in York around 40 years ago. I really don't think there are many more cars using the City Centre roads than there was in 1975. This is mainly due to the great park and ride system. Much of the traffic hold ups are caused by the erratic timing or the traffic lights around the city. These crucial areas, namely Bootham/ Gillygate, Nunnery Lane , Holgate Road, and The Mount areas, need to be managed better. Basically the inner ring road is where the problem with traffic lies. Closing the inner ring road at Lendal Bridge is a waste of time. It just moves traffic elsewhere, causing no improvement generally. Pedalling Paul refuses to change his thinking, and listen to other ideas, unless it involves push bikes somewhere along the line. Sadly, the Labour council is being manipulated by Merrett , Alexander and there cronies, who refuse to listen to sensible views.
At last someone who used to drive a public transport vehicle around the city and seen at first hand the issues with traffic has hit the nail on the head.
You are quite correct in pointing out that people like PeddallingPaul will not in anyway change their rhetoric about cycle use, he is just like the council, completely deaf to a different point of view, you only have to read his wish list for 2014, and I am relieved that his views are so extream in that they will never happen.
[quote][p][bold]yorkandproud[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote: Many a prosecution has been thrown out court because some signage or road markings were not precisely in line with the DfT requirements. Seems as if the Council is being damned by critics because they do comply, and would doubtless be equally damned if they did not. At the end of the day, the transport bullet must be bitten. Never mind the ease with which some residents wish to travel today. Without this kind of radical action, York will become gridlocked for future generations. Look beyond the next elections, and many of your lifetimes.[/p][/quote]I was a bus driver in York around 40 years ago. I really don't think there are many more cars using the City Centre roads than there was in 1975. This is mainly due to the great park and ride system. Much of the traffic hold ups are caused by the erratic timing or the traffic lights around the city. These crucial areas, namely Bootham/ Gillygate, Nunnery Lane , Holgate Road, and The Mount areas, need to be managed better. Basically the inner ring road is where the problem with traffic lies. Closing the inner ring road at Lendal Bridge is a waste of time. It just moves traffic elsewhere, causing no improvement generally. Pedalling Paul refuses to change his thinking, and listen to other ideas, unless it involves push bikes somewhere along the line. Sadly, the Labour council is being manipulated by Merrett , Alexander and there cronies, who refuse to listen to sensible views.[/p][/quote]At last someone who used to drive a public transport vehicle around the city and seen at first hand the issues with traffic has hit the nail on the head. You are quite correct in pointing out that people like PeddallingPaul will not in anyway change their rhetoric about cycle use, he is just like the council, completely deaf to a different point of view, you only have to read his wish list for 2014, and I am relieved that his views are so extream in that they will never happen. Igiveinthen
  • Score: -8

5:07pm Sun 5 Jan 14

Igiveinthen says...

mjgyork wrote:
beretta wrote:
More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available.
Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????
No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.
I vote Tory and I comment on here, the Lendal Bridge restrictions are a complete fiasco, and at last we are now seeing those responsible for the implementation of this debacle being asked questions, but 'Teflon Merrett' still slips out of giving answers like he always does.
[quote][p][bold]mjgyork[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]beretta[/bold] wrote: More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available. Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????[/p][/quote]No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.[/p][/quote]I vote Tory and I comment on here, the Lendal Bridge restrictions are a complete fiasco, and at last we are now seeing those responsible for the implementation of this debacle being asked questions, but 'Teflon Merrett' still slips out of giving answers like he always does. Igiveinthen
  • Score: -9

5:20pm Sun 5 Jan 14

hardlybelievable says...

No surprises that politicians want to dodge questions, all parties are the same, more interesting is possible rationale behind bridge closures.

Given that the council have now moved into new offices at Toft Green, one might imagine that they would be looking to defer budgets reductions through selling off property they own and is now surplus to their requirement.

A wise council would take the long view and use the asset to give a revenue stream, I fear not this lot though; I do think however by closing Lendal Bridge with a view to pedestrianising outside the the Theatre Royal would increase the value of their old council offices opposite the Theatre Royal.

Thoughts??
No surprises that politicians want to dodge questions, all parties are the same, more interesting is possible rationale behind bridge closures. Given that the council have now moved into new offices at Toft Green, one might imagine that they would be looking to defer budgets reductions through selling off property they own and is now surplus to their requirement. A wise council would take the long view and use the asset to give a revenue stream, I fear not this lot though; I do think however by closing Lendal Bridge with a view to pedestrianising outside the the Theatre Royal would increase the value of their old council offices opposite the Theatre Royal. Thoughts?? hardlybelievable
  • Score: -14

5:24pm Sun 5 Jan 14

Lunatic says...

The only thing about all this that worries me is that we risk the Lib Dems getting back in power... They were so much worse for York than the current lot.
The only thing about all this that worries me is that we risk the Lib Dems getting back in power... They were so much worse for York than the current lot. Lunatic
  • Score: 36

5:40pm Sun 5 Jan 14

PKH says...

mjgyork wrote:
beretta wrote:
More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available.
Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????
No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.
The ringroad road signs still direct people via Lendal Bridge, the road signs are conflicting!!!
[quote][p][bold]mjgyork[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]beretta[/bold] wrote: More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available. Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????[/p][/quote]No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.[/p][/quote]The ringroad road signs still direct people via Lendal Bridge, the road signs are conflicting!!! PKH
  • Score: -7

5:52pm Sun 5 Jan 14

wildthing666 says...

The council have made about £1million, and that's if they all pay the £30, from the fines whose pocket is that going to fill. It certainly won't go to fund much needed road repairs
The council have made about £1million, and that's if they all pay the £30, from the fines whose pocket is that going to fill. It certainly won't go to fund much needed road repairs wildthing666
  • Score: -16

5:59pm Sun 5 Jan 14

Silver says...

Igiveinthen wrote:
mjgyork wrote:
beretta wrote:
More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available.
Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????
No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.
I vote Tory and I comment on here, the Lendal Bridge restrictions are a complete fiasco, and at last we are now seeing those responsible for the implementation of this debacle being asked questions, but 'Teflon Merrett' still slips out of giving answers like he always does.
I vote Labour and I've never thought it would come to this....
if a Tory and a Labour voter both agree then it must be something called truth is the result.
[quote][p][bold]Igiveinthen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mjgyork[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]beretta[/bold] wrote: More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available. Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????[/p][/quote]No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.[/p][/quote]I vote Tory and I comment on here, the Lendal Bridge restrictions are a complete fiasco, and at last we are now seeing those responsible for the implementation of this debacle being asked questions, but 'Teflon Merrett' still slips out of giving answers like he always does.[/p][/quote]I vote Labour and I've never thought it would come to this.... if a Tory and a Labour voter both agree then it must be something called truth is the result. Silver
  • Score: -9

6:23pm Sun 5 Jan 14

Dave Ruddock says...

All I can say, it sure makes a mookery of this mans appointment to Transport cabilet minister, more like Cabinet member for "Mis Direction, misleading , ducking and do=iving Minister. As for Council Meeeting , must to a real confusing meeting , "What Time is it, Ill get back to you next year" meetings. Merritt get a job in the Ministry Of Jokes.... Hope whoever sells this guy papers or Drinks with .......
All I can say, it sure makes a mookery of this mans appointment to Transport cabilet minister, more like Cabinet member for "Mis Direction, misleading , ducking and do=iving Minister. As for Council Meeeting , must to a real confusing meeting , "What Time is it, Ill get back to you next year" meetings. Merritt get a job in the Ministry Of Jokes.... Hope whoever sells this guy papers or Drinks with ....... Dave Ruddock
  • Score: -6

6:40pm Sun 5 Jan 14

Igiveinthen says...

Silver wrote:
Igiveinthen wrote:
mjgyork wrote:
beretta wrote:
More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available.
Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????
No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.
I vote Tory and I comment on here, the Lendal Bridge restrictions are a complete fiasco, and at last we are now seeing those responsible for the implementation of this debacle being asked questions, but 'Teflon Merrett' still slips out of giving answers like he always does.
I vote Labour and I've never thought it would come to this....
if a Tory and a Labour voter both agree then it must be something called truth is the result.
Well I am as surprised as you are that two voters from opposite sides finally agree on the same issue.
At the end of the day it's important to me from another angle, for when I go on holiday be it in this country or abroad, when asked 'where are you from' and I say 'York in North Yorkshire' I would hate to be told 'oh that place that charges everyone for crossing a bridge'.
[quote][p][bold]Silver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Igiveinthen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mjgyork[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]beretta[/bold] wrote: More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available. Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????[/p][/quote]No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.[/p][/quote]I vote Tory and I comment on here, the Lendal Bridge restrictions are a complete fiasco, and at last we are now seeing those responsible for the implementation of this debacle being asked questions, but 'Teflon Merrett' still slips out of giving answers like he always does.[/p][/quote]I vote Labour and I've never thought it would come to this.... if a Tory and a Labour voter both agree then it must be something called truth is the result.[/p][/quote]Well I am as surprised as you are that two voters from opposite sides finally agree on the same issue. At the end of the day it's important to me from another angle, for when I go on holiday be it in this country or abroad, when asked 'where are you from' and I say 'York in North Yorkshire' I would hate to be told 'oh that place that charges everyone for crossing a bridge'. Igiveinthen
  • Score: -10

9:12pm Sun 5 Jan 14

RingoStarr says...

Am I the only one who thinks that something suspicious is going on with the voting scores on the Press website?
Am I the only one who thinks that something suspicious is going on with the voting scores on the Press website? RingoStarr
  • Score: 18

9:23pm Sun 5 Jan 14

Igiveinthen says...

RingoStarr wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that something suspicious is going on with the voting scores on the Press website?
Don't worry about it, the regular commenters have known about it for weeks, but we don't take any notice now, we just post our comments and ignore the moron(s), this comment will probably be -30000 by 10pm tonight.
[quote][p][bold]RingoStarr[/bold] wrote: Am I the only one who thinks that something suspicious is going on with the voting scores on the Press website?[/p][/quote]Don't worry about it, the regular commenters have known about it for weeks, but we don't take any notice now, we just post our comments and ignore the moron(s), this comment will probably be -30000 by 10pm tonight. Igiveinthen
  • Score: 18

9:59pm Sun 5 Jan 14

bagnall1928@yahoo.com says...

Surely bridges were meant to be crossed?
The bridges in York were built many many years ago,
obviously they had some foresight then, they have survived and
stayed in good shape.
Now surely is not too soon to think that these bridges are no longer practical due to the vast increase in motorized transport, You cant live in the past forever.
let ideas be put forward, discussed and considered.
Don't be static that is no use.
The ring road is there now to look at the possibility of a new bridge
or at another bypass, etc.
York has to give consideration to is own traffic, the citizens need to be able to get to work , by bus, car or bike as well as pedestrian traffic
the City itself is always limited by the walls, but the areas outside the gates
can be investigated for better layout and use of roads, paths, and streets.
Don't spoil the city which is unique.
Surely bridges were meant to be crossed? The bridges in York were built many many years ago, obviously they had some foresight then, they have survived and stayed in good shape. Now surely is not too soon to think that these bridges are no longer practical due to the vast increase in motorized transport, You cant live in the past forever. let ideas be put forward, discussed and considered. Don't be static that is no use. The ring road is there now to look at the possibility of a new bridge or at another bypass, etc. York has to give consideration to is own traffic, the citizens need to be able to get to work , by bus, car or bike as well as pedestrian traffic the City itself is always limited by the walls, but the areas outside the gates can be investigated for better layout and use of roads, paths, and streets. Don't spoil the city which is unique. bagnall1928@yahoo.com
  • Score: 4

3:29am Mon 6 Jan 14

the butler says...

I think that Bagnall has a point, the bridges have served a great purpose yet it seems as though the traffic light system needs an upgrade to synchronise their action which sadly is way over due.
Regarding pollution by vehicles spewing un burnt fuel out from their tail pipes, during grid lock periods, Correcting this, would I'm sure be feasible if there was a serious program in existence to inspect such polluters. the Butler.
I think that Bagnall has a point, the bridges have served a great purpose yet it seems as though the traffic light system needs an upgrade to synchronise their action which sadly is way over due. Regarding pollution by vehicles spewing un burnt fuel out from their tail pipes, during grid lock periods, Correcting this, would I'm sure be feasible if there was a serious program in existence to inspect such polluters. the Butler. the butler
  • Score: -14

12:33pm Mon 6 Jan 14

johnwill says...

Could some of the massive revenue from fines for crossing Lendal Bridge have been used to put on a massive firework display on the bridge on New Years eve ? much like the Sydney Harbour bridge display.
At least it would be something which could have been enjoyed by everyone and not paid for from council tax.
Could some of the massive revenue from fines for crossing Lendal Bridge have been used to put on a massive firework display on the bridge on New Years eve ? much like the Sydney Harbour bridge display. At least it would be something which could have been enjoyed by everyone and not paid for from council tax. johnwill
  • Score: -14

12:58pm Mon 6 Jan 14

YorkieTalkie says...

General averages are a very poor way of comparing delays - any major increases in delays (e.g. late afternoon) will be diluted by the quieter times in the day. Proper statistics (using quartiles and box plots) would be much better suited to showing the true impact.

However, even without using proper statistics, one look out of my window shows me how much more congested the Skeldergate Bridge area is since LB was closed!
General averages are a very poor way of comparing delays - any major increases in delays (e.g. late afternoon) will be diluted by the quieter times in the day. Proper statistics (using quartiles and box plots) would be much better suited to showing the true impact. However, even without using proper statistics, one look out of my window shows me how much more congested the Skeldergate Bridge area is since LB was closed! YorkieTalkie
  • Score: -8

6:22pm Mon 6 Jan 14

JHardacre says...

Igiveinthen wrote:
Silver wrote:
Igiveinthen wrote:
mjgyork wrote:
beretta wrote:
More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available.
Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????
No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.
I vote Tory and I comment on here, the Lendal Bridge restrictions are a complete fiasco, and at last we are now seeing those responsible for the implementation of this debacle being asked questions, but 'Teflon Merrett' still slips out of giving answers like he always does.
I vote Labour and I've never thought it would come to this....
if a Tory and a Labour voter both agree then it must be something called truth is the result.
Well I am as surprised as you are that two voters from opposite sides finally agree on the same issue.
At the end of the day it's important to me from another angle, for when I go on holiday be it in this country or abroad, when asked 'where are you from' and I say 'York in North Yorkshire' I would hate to be told 'oh that place that charges everyone for crossing a bridge'.
What has York got to do with North Yorkshire. It hasn't been in North Yorkshire for years.
[quote][p][bold]Igiveinthen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Silver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Igiveinthen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mjgyork[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]beretta[/bold] wrote: More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available. Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????[/p][/quote]No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.[/p][/quote]I vote Tory and I comment on here, the Lendal Bridge restrictions are a complete fiasco, and at last we are now seeing those responsible for the implementation of this debacle being asked questions, but 'Teflon Merrett' still slips out of giving answers like he always does.[/p][/quote]I vote Labour and I've never thought it would come to this.... if a Tory and a Labour voter both agree then it must be something called truth is the result.[/p][/quote]Well I am as surprised as you are that two voters from opposite sides finally agree on the same issue. At the end of the day it's important to me from another angle, for when I go on holiday be it in this country or abroad, when asked 'where are you from' and I say 'York in North Yorkshire' I would hate to be told 'oh that place that charges everyone for crossing a bridge'.[/p][/quote]What has York got to do with North Yorkshire. It hasn't been in North Yorkshire for years. JHardacre
  • Score: 6

6:53pm Mon 6 Jan 14

Igiveinthen says...

JHardacre wrote:
Igiveinthen wrote:
Silver wrote:
Igiveinthen wrote:
mjgyork wrote:
beretta wrote:
More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available.
Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????
No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.
I vote Tory and I comment on here, the Lendal Bridge restrictions are a complete fiasco, and at last we are now seeing those responsible for the implementation of this debacle being asked questions, but 'Teflon Merrett' still slips out of giving answers like he always does.
I vote Labour and I've never thought it would come to this....
if a Tory and a Labour voter both agree then it must be something called truth is the result.
Well I am as surprised as you are that two voters from opposite sides finally agree on the same issue.
At the end of the day it's important to me from another angle, for when I go on holiday be it in this country or abroad, when asked 'where are you from' and I say 'York in North Yorkshire' I would hate to be told 'oh that place that charges everyone for crossing a bridge'.
What has York got to do with North Yorkshire. It hasn't been in North Yorkshire for years.
Oh dear a pedantic hair splitter, wether you say it's not in North Yorkshire or not, that's how I and many others write their address, please comment on the point in question i.e. the Lendal Bridge issue, or better still don't bother at all.
[quote][p][bold]JHardacre[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Igiveinthen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Silver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Igiveinthen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mjgyork[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]beretta[/bold] wrote: More than 34,500 penalty charge notices were issued for breaching the bridge restrictions between August 27 and December 2, the latest figures available. Doesn't this tell the council they've got something wrong??????[/p][/quote]No it does not. It means that some drivers are incapable of reading road signs. Or they think that their convenience should override the greater good. Noone who voted Tory in local elections should be allowed to comment on this subject, given their abismal record when in command. Remember the Purple disasters? They should have been made to pay for that 'solution' out of thier own coffers. Good wook York council.[/p][/quote]I vote Tory and I comment on here, the Lendal Bridge restrictions are a complete fiasco, and at last we are now seeing those responsible for the implementation of this debacle being asked questions, but 'Teflon Merrett' still slips out of giving answers like he always does.[/p][/quote]I vote Labour and I've never thought it would come to this.... if a Tory and a Labour voter both agree then it must be something called truth is the result.[/p][/quote]Well I am as surprised as you are that two voters from opposite sides finally agree on the same issue. At the end of the day it's important to me from another angle, for when I go on holiday be it in this country or abroad, when asked 'where are you from' and I say 'York in North Yorkshire' I would hate to be told 'oh that place that charges everyone for crossing a bridge'.[/p][/quote]What has York got to do with North Yorkshire. It hasn't been in North Yorkshire for years.[/p][/quote]Oh dear a pedantic hair splitter, wether you say it's not in North Yorkshire or not, that's how I and many others write their address, please comment on the point in question i.e. the Lendal Bridge issue, or better still don't bother at all. Igiveinthen
  • Score: -10

12:25pm Tue 7 Jan 14

Lincoln31 says...

As a recent visitor to York the weekend before Christmas I used my car twice. To drive in and park in the Monk Bar Hotel on a Friday and then drive out on a Sunday when I decided to visit the Railway Museum on the way home. I put in the address in my satnav and proceeded to the museum and then left about 3 hours later. A week later I got PCN for driving in a bus lane. I have looked at a few sites on facebook and here about this so-called bus lane and I thought I would post some comments from an experienced driver and visitor to your City. I have driven in London and a number of large cities and at the best of times you are subjected to an overload of information from various signs. That is one of the reasons why must people use a satnav so they can take directions to get to their destination while paying some attention to their driving. Here is the crux of the matter the signs for the Lendal Bridge do not conform to the Highway code signage for bus lanes. These should have the words in white letters "Bus Lane" in the road surface, there should also be signs that give the restrictions and times the bus lane is in force. There are some nice pitures in the Highway Code if you are interested. From Museum Street to Lendal Bridge none of these signs exist. That is why people are missing the signs and particularly tourists and visitors to your City. I don't make it a habit of driving in bus lanes and if I do then I expect to get a fine. However, I expect whoever (York Council) put this bus lane in place to play the game and sign post it accordingly and not use some clause as a get out to put up inappropriate signs and do it on the cheap. I have appealed and if needs be I will pay, but if I do have to pay you will not see me back again and I will not be spending the £800+ I spent in the city on hotel accomodation, food, shopping etc. A shame because I have been coming about every three years since our honeymoon in 1977. As to the idiot who says it's the drivers fault for not seeing the signs then it's mind boggling that 34,000 of us are blind! Get a life and try driving in a city where you do not necessarily know where you are and where you are going. I suspect you don't drive and walk around with a paper bag over your head most of the day.

Patrick McGill, Lincoln, Lincolnshire
As a recent visitor to York the weekend before Christmas I used my car twice. To drive in and park in the Monk Bar Hotel on a Friday and then drive out on a Sunday when I decided to visit the Railway Museum on the way home. I put in the address in my satnav and proceeded to the museum and then left about 3 hours later. A week later I got PCN for driving in a bus lane. I have looked at a few sites on facebook and here about this so-called bus lane and I thought I would post some comments from an experienced driver and visitor to your City. I have driven in London and a number of large cities and at the best of times you are subjected to an overload of information from various signs. That is one of the reasons why must people use a satnav so they can take directions to get to their destination while paying some attention to their driving. Here is the crux of the matter the signs for the Lendal Bridge do not conform to the Highway code signage for bus lanes. These should have the words in white letters "Bus Lane" in the road surface, there should also be signs that give the restrictions and times the bus lane is in force. There are some nice pitures in the Highway Code if you are interested. From Museum Street to Lendal Bridge none of these signs exist. That is why people are missing the signs and particularly tourists and visitors to your City. I don't make it a habit of driving in bus lanes and if I do then I expect to get a fine. However, I expect whoever (York Council) put this bus lane in place to play the game and sign post it accordingly and not use some clause as a get out to put up inappropriate signs and do it on the cheap. I have appealed and if needs be I will pay, but if I do have to pay you will not see me back again and I will not be spending the £800+ I spent in the city on hotel accomodation, food, shopping etc. A shame because I have been coming about every three years since our honeymoon in 1977. As to the idiot who says it's the drivers fault for not seeing the signs then it's mind boggling that 34,000 of us are blind! Get a life and try driving in a city where you do not necessarily know where you are and where you are going. I suspect you don't drive and walk around with a paper bag over your head most of the day. Patrick McGill, Lincoln, Lincolnshire Lincoln31
  • Score: -1040

2:24pm Tue 7 Jan 14

Cheeky face says...

Lincoln 31 has got a sensible and balanced view.

My queries with the Council since BEFORE the Lendal Bridge trial are still unanswered!

The diversionary routes should be signposted throughout the diversion route.If you can find the unsignposted routes in a "foreign" city by yourself then well played. Prices Lane and Monkgate roundabout and other areas should have diversionary signs. Unfortunately Dept For Transport are not now a governing body for authorities, so the council can create their own signage, BUT SUCH SIGNANGE, ROAD MARKINGS, AND LACK OF THESE MUST SERVE THE MOTORISTS ETC IN A SOUND, EFFICIENT AND HONESTY WAY! The result will be appeal tribunals voting in the favour of motorists if they have bneen prepared diligently.

The signage should properly convey the detailed restrictions that the council advised to only a percentage of York people. Top-down reading in legalese terms of the signs either side of the Bridge are wrong. The restricted times should follow the sign- then the exceptions should follow. Examples in the Traffics Regs/Traffic Signs Manual and the Highway Code are to be read each with each. Other councils/highways authorities
do not produce ambiguity at this level.
Lincoln 31 has got a sensible and balanced view. My queries with the Council since BEFORE the Lendal Bridge trial are still unanswered! The diversionary routes should be signposted throughout the diversion route.If you can find the unsignposted routes in a "foreign" city by yourself then well played. Prices Lane and Monkgate roundabout and other areas should have diversionary signs. Unfortunately Dept For Transport are not now a governing body for authorities, so the council can create their own signage, BUT SUCH SIGNANGE, ROAD MARKINGS, AND LACK OF THESE MUST SERVE THE MOTORISTS ETC IN A SOUND, EFFICIENT AND HONESTY WAY! The result will be appeal tribunals voting in the favour of motorists if they have bneen prepared diligently. The signage should properly convey the detailed restrictions that the council advised to only a percentage of York people. Top-down reading in legalese terms of the signs either side of the Bridge are wrong. The restricted times should follow the sign- then the exceptions should follow. Examples in the Traffics Regs/Traffic Signs Manual and the Highway Code are to be read each with each. Other councils/highways authorities do not produce ambiguity at this level. Cheeky face
  • Score: -1036

2:40pm Tue 7 Jan 14

Igiveinthen says...

Lincoln31 wrote:
As a recent visitor to York the weekend before Christmas I used my car twice. To drive in and park in the Monk Bar Hotel on a Friday and then drive out on a Sunday when I decided to visit the Railway Museum on the way home. I put in the address in my satnav and proceeded to the museum and then left about 3 hours later. A week later I got PCN for driving in a bus lane. I have looked at a few sites on facebook and here about this so-called bus lane and I thought I would post some comments from an experienced driver and visitor to your City. I have driven in London and a number of large cities and at the best of times you are subjected to an overload of information from various signs. That is one of the reasons why must people use a satnav so they can take directions to get to their destination while paying some attention to their driving. Here is the crux of the matter the signs for the Lendal Bridge do not conform to the Highway code signage for bus lanes. These should have the words in white letters "Bus Lane" in the road surface, there should also be signs that give the restrictions and times the bus lane is in force. There are some nice pitures in the Highway Code if you are interested. From Museum Street to Lendal Bridge none of these signs exist. That is why people are missing the signs and particularly tourists and visitors to your City. I don't make it a habit of driving in bus lanes and if I do then I expect to get a fine. However, I expect whoever (York Council) put this bus lane in place to play the game and sign post it accordingly and not use some clause as a get out to put up inappropriate signs and do it on the cheap. I have appealed and if needs be I will pay, but if I do have to pay you will not see me back again and I will not be spending the £800+ I spent in the city on hotel accomodation, food, shopping etc. A shame because I have been coming about every three years since our honeymoon in 1977. As to the idiot who says it's the drivers fault for not seeing the signs then it's mind boggling that 34,000 of us are blind! Get a life and try driving in a city where you do not necessarily know where you are and where you are going. I suspect you don't drive and walk around with a paper bag over your head most of the day. Patrick McGill, Lincoln, Lincolnshire
Lincoln31

It is unfortunate that you fell foul of the “York Cash Making Machine”, there are York residents that are for the bridge restrictions and likewise there are York residents against the bridge restrictions, but I think the overriding opinion from what I have read and commented on is that it has been badly implemented and badly managed.
I note that you have said that you have appealed and my advice to you is keep appealing to each letter that the council send back to you saying your appeal has been denied, for at the end of it all you have the right to go before the “Independent Traffic Penalty Tribunal” to put your case in person, it does not cost you anything and even if it fails at that point the most you will have to pay is the maximum PCN charge of £60.00, but it will have cost City of York Council a lot more to retrieve that sum.
[quote][p][bold]Lincoln31[/bold] wrote: As a recent visitor to York the weekend before Christmas I used my car twice. To drive in and park in the Monk Bar Hotel on a Friday and then drive out on a Sunday when I decided to visit the Railway Museum on the way home. I put in the address in my satnav and proceeded to the museum and then left about 3 hours later. A week later I got PCN for driving in a bus lane. I have looked at a few sites on facebook and here about this so-called bus lane and I thought I would post some comments from an experienced driver and visitor to your City. I have driven in London and a number of large cities and at the best of times you are subjected to an overload of information from various signs. That is one of the reasons why must people use a satnav so they can take directions to get to their destination while paying some attention to their driving. Here is the crux of the matter the signs for the Lendal Bridge do not conform to the Highway code signage for bus lanes. These should have the words in white letters "Bus Lane" in the road surface, there should also be signs that give the restrictions and times the bus lane is in force. There are some nice pitures in the Highway Code if you are interested. From Museum Street to Lendal Bridge none of these signs exist. That is why people are missing the signs and particularly tourists and visitors to your City. I don't make it a habit of driving in bus lanes and if I do then I expect to get a fine. However, I expect whoever (York Council) put this bus lane in place to play the game and sign post it accordingly and not use some clause as a get out to put up inappropriate signs and do it on the cheap. I have appealed and if needs be I will pay, but if I do have to pay you will not see me back again and I will not be spending the £800+ I spent in the city on hotel accomodation, food, shopping etc. A shame because I have been coming about every three years since our honeymoon in 1977. As to the idiot who says it's the drivers fault for not seeing the signs then it's mind boggling that 34,000 of us are blind! Get a life and try driving in a city where you do not necessarily know where you are and where you are going. I suspect you don't drive and walk around with a paper bag over your head most of the day. Patrick McGill, Lincoln, Lincolnshire[/p][/quote]Lincoln31 It is unfortunate that you fell foul of the “York Cash Making Machine”, there are York residents that are for the bridge restrictions and likewise there are York residents against the bridge restrictions, but I think the overriding opinion from what I have read and commented on is that it has been badly implemented and badly managed. I note that you have said that you have appealed and my advice to you is keep appealing to each letter that the council send back to you saying your appeal has been denied, for at the end of it all you have the right to go before the “Independent Traffic Penalty Tribunal” to put your case in person, it does not cost you anything and even if it fails at that point the most you will have to pay is the maximum PCN charge of £60.00, but it will have cost City of York Council a lot more to retrieve that sum. Igiveinthen
  • Score: -1037

9:23pm Tue 7 Jan 14

Igiveinthen says...

-29 oh come now you can all do better than that!
-29 oh come now you can all do better than that! Igiveinthen
  • Score: -1006

7:06am Wed 8 Jan 14

Igiveinthen says...

Igiveinthen wrote:
-29 oh come now you can all do better than that!
Wow -1037 AND -1005 that's better lads!
[quote][p][bold]Igiveinthen[/bold] wrote: -29 oh come now you can all do better than that![/p][/quote]Wow -1037 AND -1005 that's better lads! Igiveinthen
  • Score: -5

9:06am Wed 8 Jan 14

Lincoln31 says...

It seems some don't want to listen to the other side of the argument. Very sad, hope he is pleased with himself.
It seems some don't want to listen to the other side of the argument. Very sad, hope he is pleased with himself. Lincoln31
  • Score: -11

8:35pm Wed 8 Jan 14

Mookie2 says...

I asked Cllr Merrett about the obvious poor phasing of the traffic light system around York. Here's his response.

"On the Mount signalling, this is very much a technical issue. All the signals in the city centre out to here are linked through the Urban Traffic Management Control system, and as I understand it programmed to optimise the flows onto and around the inner ring road during the daytime (not overnight when they revert to independent operation). There are separate programmes for the morning and evening peaks and Saturdays to reflect the differing flows at the different periods. However the programmes overall are dominated by the operation of the two most critical junctions in the system - Micklegate bar on the west side and Gillygate on the north east side, and all the preceding signals are linked to the operating cycles at these critical junctions, rather than just the situation at the individual junctions. The timings are not completely fixed however, and can be adjusted to some extent by the actual flows picked up through the various detectors in the road around the basic cycles, but only to a limited extent. Drivers therefore find themselves waiting longer at some of the junctions like the Mount, but overall the flows through the system are optimised."
I asked Cllr Merrett about the obvious poor phasing of the traffic light system around York. Here's his response. "On the Mount signalling, this is very much a technical issue. All the signals in the city centre out to here are linked through the Urban Traffic Management Control system, and as I understand it programmed to optimise the flows onto and around the inner ring road during the daytime (not overnight when they revert to independent operation). There are separate programmes for the morning and evening peaks and Saturdays to reflect the differing flows at the different periods. However the programmes overall are dominated by the operation of the two most critical junctions in the system - Micklegate bar on the west side and Gillygate on the north east side, and all the preceding signals are linked to the operating cycles at these critical junctions, rather than just the situation at the individual junctions. The timings are not completely fixed however, and can be adjusted to some extent by the actual flows picked up through the various detectors in the road around the basic cycles, but only to a limited extent. Drivers therefore find themselves waiting longer at some of the junctions like the Mount, but overall the flows through the system are optimised." Mookie2
  • Score: -11

11:04am Thu 9 Jan 14

Jazzper says...

I spotted a contractor 'fiddling' with the control box for the lights at the end of Rawcliffe lane/Shipton road junction yesterday, I can only hope he was doing something to stop them from changing to red and holding up traffic on Shipton road when no vehicles (or pedestrians) are coming along Rawcliffe lane. These lights have been set like this for ages, it's very frustrating sitting there waiting while they go through a timed cycle, they don't seem to be controlled by sensors on the road at all, very strange.
I spotted a contractor 'fiddling' with the control box for the lights at the end of Rawcliffe lane/Shipton road junction yesterday, I can only hope he was doing something to stop them from changing to red and holding up traffic on Shipton road when no vehicles (or pedestrians) are coming along Rawcliffe lane. These lights have been set like this for ages, it's very frustrating sitting there waiting while they go through a timed cycle, they don't seem to be controlled by sensors on the road at all, very strange. Jazzper
  • Score: -7

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