800 jobs at risk at Eggborough Power Station

York Press: Eggborough Power Station Eggborough Power Station

A NORTH Yorkshire power station is at risk of closing with the loss of 800 jobs after plans to convert it from burning coal to biomass were dealt a shattering blow by the Government.

Another 2,000 new jobs which would be created if the scheme at Eggborough Power Station went ahead are also now in jeopardy, Selby and Ainsty MP Nigel Adams has warned.

The Tory MP also claimed in a letter to Energy Minister Ed Davey, which has been signed by ten other MPs including York Outer MP Julian Sturdy, that Britain would be left at a greater risk of power cuts.

Eggborough Power chief executive Neil O’Hara warned last night that closure could also push household energy bills even higher.

The power station, which creates four per cent of the UK’s power, has been planning to become one of Britain’s largest producers of green power by burning wood pellets instead of coal, but this would require public subsidies.

However, the Government now looks set to prioritise subsidies for wind power, leaving the biomass scheme in danger, with a final decision due to be made later this week.

Mr Adams said he was “furious” at the move, claiming: “It’s economic madness. This scheme is ‘shovel ready’ to start in January. The investment is in place. The planning permission is in place. Most of the wind schemes don’t even have planning permission.”

Mr O’Hara said: “This was going to be the largest engineering project in Britain in the first quarter of next year. We’re absolutely ready to go. Unless they change their minds, we will have to reassess everything.”

He said the plant could shut by the end of 2015 if taxpayers’ cash was not forthcoming.

An Eggborough spokeswoman said: “Our hope for this project is to drive huge investment and growth across this region. We are shovel ready to start early next year, subject to the Government decision.”

Mr Davey is reported to have said that the Government cannot fund all the projects that are coming forward, as that would potentially result in poor value for consumers.

A Department of Energy and Climate Change spokesperson said last night: “Projects will be told this week what their provisional ranking is against all projects and within their technology group.

“We cannot comment on their score and affordability at the current time.”

Comments (23)

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10:13am Mon 16 Dec 13

Shouter says...

Who needs wind power? It is a complete and utter waste of money, resources and time. Those ugly useless turbines don't work, cause health problems in those unlucky to live nearby and spoil the landscape. I would much rather the money were invested in proven technology in an existing power station and in the process save thousands of jobs!
Who needs wind power? It is a complete and utter waste of money, resources and time. Those ugly useless turbines don't work, cause health problems in those unlucky to live nearby and spoil the landscape. I would much rather the money were invested in proven technology in an existing power station and in the process save thousands of jobs! Shouter

10:46am Mon 16 Dec 13

markymmark says...

There are only two winners with wind turbines - The turbine manufacturers and the land owners !

THEY DON'T WORK !!!!!
There are only two winners with wind turbines - The turbine manufacturers and the land owners ! THEY DON'T WORK !!!!! markymmark

10:58am Mon 16 Dec 13

Kevin Turvey says...

In the UK at present we have something like a 2% over capacity for generation.

The UK population is growing and demand for energy has always gone up and never down.

So Eggborough generates approx 4% of UK generation and if it closes then that put us at a 2% deficit in generation capacity for starters.

The whole market is rigged to buying now relatively cheaply generated but sold expensively French Nuclear Energy as an import (cheap because the French taxpayer built the plants then they were sold to EDF very cheaply).

If a problem with supply in France or getting it here occurs then we are in big trouble.

The current stocks of coal at the other UK northern power stations are still depleting slowly due to the resulting reduction in rail supply due to the Hatfield colliery landslide last year that has cut the number of coal trains leaving Goole from approx 30 a day to many less, resulting in it taking many more times than actually should be required to empty a coal vessel, they are currently stacked up in the Humber and out to see awaiting being able to be unloaded.

This is resulting in a lowering of coal stocks on site rather than shortages per say. This landslide recovery works are going to take a long long time as moving 1.2 million tonnes of debris that was until very recently still moving is not a quick job and then rebuilding the railway line!

All this mayhem can be viewed from Junction 4 of the M18 near Thorne and explains the large amount of mud pies in the various fields around the area.

You will know when they are really bricking it when there are several thousand lorry movements per day initiated to move the coal, this will be more of a PR exercise as the diminishing returns on efficiencies for fuel use in lorries moving fuel negates this as a practical real life option but it will show that are attempting to do something albeit too little too late.

It would only take a terrorist attack, severe storm, flood, cable failure/damage or other extraordinary event to cut the import of power into this country and for how long?

It is not common sense to place yourself at the end of a logistics chain by design knowing full well of the possible implications. The failure of that chain and resulting implications are entirely foreseeable.

The risks is I am sure are assessed and mitigated for by the powers at be but how many times have there been problems with assessment and robust mitigation in the past? In my past experience far too much reliance for mitigation on diversity and over reliance on the same scant resources and low levels of skilled staff.

The lack of over capacity of generation in this country has been on the horizon for many years and IF there are blackouts then the resulting mayhem will make the London summer riots look like a garden party.

There are too little numbers of police or military forces left to sort these issues out.

The country is walking into a situation that there is no apparent mitigation and planning for undertaken as they hope it will go away before the public realise the issue.

When the government wake up in a prison cell they will not understand how the revolution took place that put them there!

They have failed us yet again.

However as a consumer you will be milked of cash until you run dry and until that day comes by constant prices rises!
In the UK at present we have something like a 2% over capacity for generation. The UK population is growing and demand for energy has always gone up and never down. So Eggborough generates approx 4% of UK generation and if it closes then that put us at a 2% deficit in generation capacity for starters. The whole market is rigged to buying now relatively cheaply generated but sold expensively French Nuclear Energy as an import (cheap because the French taxpayer built the plants then they were sold to EDF very cheaply). If a problem with supply in France or getting it here occurs then we are in big trouble. The current stocks of coal at the other UK northern power stations are still depleting slowly due to the resulting reduction in rail supply due to the Hatfield colliery landslide last year that has cut the number of coal trains leaving Goole from approx 30 a day to many less, resulting in it taking many more times than actually should be required to empty a coal vessel, they are currently stacked up in the Humber and out to see awaiting being able to be unloaded. This is resulting in a lowering of coal stocks on site rather than shortages per say. This landslide recovery works are going to take a long long time as moving 1.2 million tonnes of debris that was until very recently still moving is not a quick job and then rebuilding the railway line! All this mayhem can be viewed from Junction 4 of the M18 near Thorne and explains the large amount of mud pies in the various fields around the area. You will know when they are really bricking it when there are several thousand lorry movements per day initiated to move the coal, this will be more of a PR exercise as the diminishing returns on efficiencies for fuel use in lorries moving fuel negates this as a practical real life option but it will show that are attempting to do something albeit too little too late. It would only take a terrorist attack, severe storm, flood, cable failure/damage or other extraordinary event to cut the import of power into this country and for how long? It is not common sense to place yourself at the end of a logistics chain by design knowing full well of the possible implications. The failure of that chain and resulting implications are entirely foreseeable. The risks is I am sure are assessed and mitigated for by the powers at be but how many times have there been problems with assessment and robust mitigation in the past? In my past experience far too much reliance for mitigation on diversity and over reliance on the same scant resources and low levels of skilled staff. The lack of over capacity of generation in this country has been on the horizon for many years and IF there are blackouts then the resulting mayhem will make the London summer riots look like a garden party. There are too little numbers of police or military forces left to sort these issues out. The country is walking into a situation that there is no apparent mitigation and planning for undertaken as they hope it will go away before the public realise the issue. When the government wake up in a prison cell they will not understand how the revolution took place that put them there! They have failed us yet again. However as a consumer you will be milked of cash until you run dry and until that day comes by constant prices rises! Kevin Turvey

11:19am Mon 16 Dec 13

piemagico says...

Kevin Turvey wrote:
In the UK at present we have something like a 2% over capacity for generation.

The UK population is growing and demand for energy has always gone up and never down.

So Eggborough generates approx 4% of UK generation and if it closes then that put us at a 2% deficit in generation capacity for starters.

The whole market is rigged to buying now relatively cheaply generated but sold expensively French Nuclear Energy as an import (cheap because the French taxpayer built the plants then they were sold to EDF very cheaply).

If a problem with supply in France or getting it here occurs then we are in big trouble.

The current stocks of coal at the other UK northern power stations are still depleting slowly due to the resulting reduction in rail supply due to the Hatfield colliery landslide last year that has cut the number of coal trains leaving Goole from approx 30 a day to many less, resulting in it taking many more times than actually should be required to empty a coal vessel, they are currently stacked up in the Humber and out to see awaiting being able to be unloaded.

This is resulting in a lowering of coal stocks on site rather than shortages per say. This landslide recovery works are going to take a long long time as moving 1.2 million tonnes of debris that was until very recently still moving is not a quick job and then rebuilding the railway line!

All this mayhem can be viewed from Junction 4 of the M18 near Thorne and explains the large amount of mud pies in the various fields around the area.

You will know when they are really bricking it when there are several thousand lorry movements per day initiated to move the coal, this will be more of a PR exercise as the diminishing returns on efficiencies for fuel use in lorries moving fuel negates this as a practical real life option but it will show that are attempting to do something albeit too little too late.

It would only take a terrorist attack, severe storm, flood, cable failure/damage or other extraordinary event to cut the import of power into this country and for how long?

It is not common sense to place yourself at the end of a logistics chain by design knowing full well of the possible implications. The failure of that chain and resulting implications are entirely foreseeable.

The risks is I am sure are assessed and mitigated for by the powers at be but how many times have there been problems with assessment and robust mitigation in the past? In my past experience far too much reliance for mitigation on diversity and over reliance on the same scant resources and low levels of skilled staff.

The lack of over capacity of generation in this country has been on the horizon for many years and IF there are blackouts then the resulting mayhem will make the London summer riots look like a garden party.

There are too little numbers of police or military forces left to sort these issues out.

The country is walking into a situation that there is no apparent mitigation and planning for undertaken as they hope it will go away before the public realise the issue.

When the government wake up in a prison cell they will not understand how the revolution took place that put them there!

They have failed us yet again.

However as a consumer you will be milked of cash until you run dry and until that day comes by constant prices rises!
The 2% spare capacity margin is a forecast for 2015 and it assumes that a number of coal-burning power stations will close. So Eggborough's possible closure will not take us into deficit.
[quote][p][bold]Kevin Turvey[/bold] wrote: In the UK at present we have something like a 2% over capacity for generation. The UK population is growing and demand for energy has always gone up and never down. So Eggborough generates approx 4% of UK generation and if it closes then that put us at a 2% deficit in generation capacity for starters. The whole market is rigged to buying now relatively cheaply generated but sold expensively French Nuclear Energy as an import (cheap because the French taxpayer built the plants then they were sold to EDF very cheaply). If a problem with supply in France or getting it here occurs then we are in big trouble. The current stocks of coal at the other UK northern power stations are still depleting slowly due to the resulting reduction in rail supply due to the Hatfield colliery landslide last year that has cut the number of coal trains leaving Goole from approx 30 a day to many less, resulting in it taking many more times than actually should be required to empty a coal vessel, they are currently stacked up in the Humber and out to see awaiting being able to be unloaded. This is resulting in a lowering of coal stocks on site rather than shortages per say. This landslide recovery works are going to take a long long time as moving 1.2 million tonnes of debris that was until very recently still moving is not a quick job and then rebuilding the railway line! All this mayhem can be viewed from Junction 4 of the M18 near Thorne and explains the large amount of mud pies in the various fields around the area. You will know when they are really bricking it when there are several thousand lorry movements per day initiated to move the coal, this will be more of a PR exercise as the diminishing returns on efficiencies for fuel use in lorries moving fuel negates this as a practical real life option but it will show that are attempting to do something albeit too little too late. It would only take a terrorist attack, severe storm, flood, cable failure/damage or other extraordinary event to cut the import of power into this country and for how long? It is not common sense to place yourself at the end of a logistics chain by design knowing full well of the possible implications. The failure of that chain and resulting implications are entirely foreseeable. The risks is I am sure are assessed and mitigated for by the powers at be but how many times have there been problems with assessment and robust mitigation in the past? In my past experience far too much reliance for mitigation on diversity and over reliance on the same scant resources and low levels of skilled staff. The lack of over capacity of generation in this country has been on the horizon for many years and IF there are blackouts then the resulting mayhem will make the London summer riots look like a garden party. There are too little numbers of police or military forces left to sort these issues out. The country is walking into a situation that there is no apparent mitigation and planning for undertaken as they hope it will go away before the public realise the issue. When the government wake up in a prison cell they will not understand how the revolution took place that put them there! They have failed us yet again. However as a consumer you will be milked of cash until you run dry and until that day comes by constant prices rises![/p][/quote]The 2% spare capacity margin is a forecast for 2015 and it assumes that a number of coal-burning power stations will close. So Eggborough's possible closure will not take us into deficit. piemagico

1:03pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Brighouse Lad says...

The thing with Biomass is that when you factor in the emissions from transporting millions of tonnes of wood chips from the USA, the fact that you need to burn more biomass than coal to generate the same electric output, then coal is actually cleaner. Also coal is not subsidised. All in all this is complete madness. We should stick with coal for the short term future!
The thing with Biomass is that when you factor in the emissions from transporting millions of tonnes of wood chips from the USA, the fact that you need to burn more biomass than coal to generate the same electric output, then coal is actually cleaner. Also coal is not subsidised. All in all this is complete madness. We should stick with coal for the short term future! Brighouse Lad

1:54pm Mon 16 Dec 13

ColdAsChristmas says...

100% correct Brighouse. Offshore wind is already subsidised 200% and the government has plans to increase this.
The GreenLibLabCon are not fit to govern this country.
China is bulding hundreds of coal power stations while we are closing ours down, even though they produce the UK's cheapest energy. Meanwhile, last year, the UK tax payer gave China aid to the value of £27.4 Million, much of it quoted to help them tackle climate change! More carbon phobia.
100% correct Brighouse. Offshore wind is already subsidised 200% and the government has plans to increase this. The GreenLibLabCon are not fit to govern this country. China is bulding hundreds of coal power stations while we are closing ours down, even though they produce the UK's cheapest energy. Meanwhile, last year, the UK tax payer gave China aid to the value of £27.4 Million, much of it quoted to help them tackle climate change! More carbon phobia. ColdAsChristmas

1:58pm Mon 16 Dec 13

garethjv says...

Shouter wrote:
Who needs wind power? It is a complete and utter waste of money, resources and time. Those ugly useless turbines don't work, cause health problems in those unlucky to live nearby and spoil the landscape. I would much rather the money were invested in proven technology in an existing power station and in the process save thousands of jobs!
Some wind power might make sense to supplement the grid, but at this rate, we'll all be praying for windy days in 20 years or so.
[quote][p][bold]Shouter[/bold] wrote: Who needs wind power? It is a complete and utter waste of money, resources and time. Those ugly useless turbines don't work, cause health problems in those unlucky to live nearby and spoil the landscape. I would much rather the money were invested in proven technology in an existing power station and in the process save thousands of jobs![/p][/quote]Some wind power might make sense to supplement the grid, but at this rate, we'll all be praying for windy days in 20 years or so. garethjv

3:06pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Ignatius Lumpopo says...

Brighouse Lad wrote:
The thing with Biomass is that when you factor in the emissions from transporting millions of tonnes of wood chips from the USA, the fact that you need to burn more biomass than coal to generate the same electric output, then coal is actually cleaner. Also coal is not subsidised. All in all this is complete madness. We should stick with coal for the short term future!
Yeah, but the coal we're using at the moment is coming from the US as well. They're selling it off cheap because they don't need it now they're fracking all over the place.
[quote][p][bold]Brighouse Lad[/bold] wrote: The thing with Biomass is that when you factor in the emissions from transporting millions of tonnes of wood chips from the USA, the fact that you need to burn more biomass than coal to generate the same electric output, then coal is actually cleaner. Also coal is not subsidised. All in all this is complete madness. We should stick with coal for the short term future![/p][/quote]Yeah, but the coal we're using at the moment is coming from the US as well. They're selling it off cheap because they don't need it now they're fracking all over the place. Ignatius Lumpopo

3:12pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Brighouse Lad says...

The other side of the wind turbine issue is that the "greens" never mention is that many of the rare metals used in the manufacture of these turbines come from China. Many areas in China where these metals are being mined have left behind pollution and contaminated water supplies. Same goes with Nuclear energy and uranium mining.

Its about time the public were told the proper facts about the environment, CO2 and subsidies so that the public can decide on the future.
The other side of the wind turbine issue is that the "greens" never mention is that many of the rare metals used in the manufacture of these turbines come from China. Many areas in China where these metals are being mined have left behind pollution and contaminated water supplies. Same goes with Nuclear energy and uranium mining. Its about time the public were told the proper facts about the environment, CO2 and subsidies so that the public can decide on the future. Brighouse Lad

3:22pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Terry3 says...

I truly believe that the new energy source windpower is an atrocity, and an eyesore.. it is barely possible to find a beauty spot in our lovely country that is not ruined by these monstrosities.. better a few old fashioned power stations than a country covered in wind generators.
One question for the press, why do you insist on using the one photo of a power station that looks as if it is belching black smoke? what we see coming from power stations is STEAM.. for goodness sake. Try to be at least a little balance, hard as that may seem.
I truly believe that the new energy source windpower is an atrocity, and an eyesore.. it is barely possible to find a beauty spot in our lovely country that is not ruined by these monstrosities.. better a few old fashioned power stations than a country covered in wind generators. One question for the press, why do you insist on using the one photo of a power station that looks as if it is belching black smoke? what we see coming from power stations is STEAM.. for goodness sake. Try to be at least a little balance, hard as that may seem. Terry3

4:50pm Mon 16 Dec 13

PKH says...

I think we should be using rivers to generate more electricity, at weirs waterfalls etc. like what has been done at Howsham Mill
I think we should be using rivers to generate more electricity, at weirs waterfalls etc. like what has been done at Howsham Mill PKH

5:05pm Mon 16 Dec 13

andyjon12 says...

"Shovel ready" they say, but they have no cash. To run the power station as they propose - is simply non viable. It is a loss making business and it should close - according to the capitalist system that we have in the UK. The same capitalist model which is responsible for closing down scores of Remploy Factories throughout the UK - at a cost of thousands of disabled workers jobs. Who cares about these workers?, nobody it would seem - there should have been a public outcry. However, people were silenced; so, why should it be any different in this case, are these power station jobs considered more valuable than the Remploy jobs?
"Shovel ready" they say, but they have no cash. To run the power station as they propose - is simply non viable. It is a loss making business and it should close - according to the capitalist system that we have in the UK. The same capitalist model which is responsible for closing down scores of Remploy Factories throughout the UK - at a cost of thousands of disabled workers jobs. Who cares about these workers?, nobody it would seem - there should have been a public outcry. However, people were silenced; so, why should it be any different in this case, are these power station jobs considered more valuable than the Remploy jobs? andyjon12

6:11pm Mon 16 Dec 13

baldiebiker says...

I like wind turbines, they can put one in my garden if they want, I wonder if it was the same when the first windmills were built, all the nimbys saying you should grind your corn by hand?
I like wind turbines, they can put one in my garden if they want, I wonder if it was the same when the first windmills were built, all the nimbys saying you should grind your corn by hand? baldiebiker

6:24pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Brighouse Lad says...

Ignatius Lumpopo wrote:
Brighouse Lad wrote:
The thing with Biomass is that when you factor in the emissions from transporting millions of tonnes of wood chips from the USA, the fact that you need to burn more biomass than coal to generate the same electric output, then coal is actually cleaner. Also coal is not subsidised. All in all this is complete madness. We should stick with coal for the short term future!
Yeah, but the coal we're using at the moment is coming from the US as well. They're selling it off cheap because they don't need it now they're fracking all over the place.
Very true! But coal isn't going to be subsidised and until recently the UK could have been burning British mined coal. Again its sheer madness to convert power stations to a source of fuel that the UK cannot provide itself.
[quote][p][bold]Ignatius Lumpopo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brighouse Lad[/bold] wrote: The thing with Biomass is that when you factor in the emissions from transporting millions of tonnes of wood chips from the USA, the fact that you need to burn more biomass than coal to generate the same electric output, then coal is actually cleaner. Also coal is not subsidised. All in all this is complete madness. We should stick with coal for the short term future![/p][/quote]Yeah, but the coal we're using at the moment is coming from the US as well. They're selling it off cheap because they don't need it now they're fracking all over the place.[/p][/quote]Very true! But coal isn't going to be subsidised and until recently the UK could have been burning British mined coal. Again its sheer madness to convert power stations to a source of fuel that the UK cannot provide itself. Brighouse Lad

6:35pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Haywire says...

Kevin Turvey wrote:
In the UK at present we have something like a 2% over capacity for generation.

The UK population is growing and demand for energy has always gone up and never down.

So Eggborough generates approx 4% of UK generation and if it closes then that put us at a 2% deficit in generation capacity for starters.

The whole market is rigged to buying now relatively cheaply generated but sold expensively French Nuclear Energy as an import (cheap because the French taxpayer built the plants then they were sold to EDF very cheaply).

If a problem with supply in France or getting it here occurs then we are in big trouble.

The current stocks of coal at the other UK northern power stations are still depleting slowly due to the resulting reduction in rail supply due to the Hatfield colliery landslide last year that has cut the number of coal trains leaving Goole from approx 30 a day to many less, resulting in it taking many more times than actually should be required to empty a coal vessel, they are currently stacked up in the Humber and out to see awaiting being able to be unloaded.

This is resulting in a lowering of coal stocks on site rather than shortages per say. This landslide recovery works are going to take a long long time as moving 1.2 million tonnes of debris that was until very recently still moving is not a quick job and then rebuilding the railway line!

All this mayhem can be viewed from Junction 4 of the M18 near Thorne and explains the large amount of mud pies in the various fields around the area.

You will know when they are really bricking it when there are several thousand lorry movements per day initiated to move the coal, this will be more of a PR exercise as the diminishing returns on efficiencies for fuel use in lorries moving fuel negates this as a practical real life option but it will show that are attempting to do something albeit too little too late.

It would only take a terrorist attack, severe storm, flood, cable failure/damage or other extraordinary event to cut the import of power into this country and for how long?

It is not common sense to place yourself at the end of a logistics chain by design knowing full well of the possible implications. The failure of that chain and resulting implications are entirely foreseeable.

The risks is I am sure are assessed and mitigated for by the powers at be but how many times have there been problems with assessment and robust mitigation in the past? In my past experience far too much reliance for mitigation on diversity and over reliance on the same scant resources and low levels of skilled staff.

The lack of over capacity of generation in this country has been on the horizon for many years and IF there are blackouts then the resulting mayhem will make the London summer riots look like a garden party.

There are too little numbers of police or military forces left to sort these issues out.

The country is walking into a situation that there is no apparent mitigation and planning for undertaken as they hope it will go away before the public realise the issue.

When the government wake up in a prison cell they will not understand how the revolution took place that put them there!

They have failed us yet again.

However as a consumer you will be milked of cash until you run dry and until that day comes by constant prices rises!
KT,

and on the bright side?
[quote][p][bold]Kevin Turvey[/bold] wrote: In the UK at present we have something like a 2% over capacity for generation. The UK population is growing and demand for energy has always gone up and never down. So Eggborough generates approx 4% of UK generation and if it closes then that put us at a 2% deficit in generation capacity for starters. The whole market is rigged to buying now relatively cheaply generated but sold expensively French Nuclear Energy as an import (cheap because the French taxpayer built the plants then they were sold to EDF very cheaply). If a problem with supply in France or getting it here occurs then we are in big trouble. The current stocks of coal at the other UK northern power stations are still depleting slowly due to the resulting reduction in rail supply due to the Hatfield colliery landslide last year that has cut the number of coal trains leaving Goole from approx 30 a day to many less, resulting in it taking many more times than actually should be required to empty a coal vessel, they are currently stacked up in the Humber and out to see awaiting being able to be unloaded. This is resulting in a lowering of coal stocks on site rather than shortages per say. This landslide recovery works are going to take a long long time as moving 1.2 million tonnes of debris that was until very recently still moving is not a quick job and then rebuilding the railway line! All this mayhem can be viewed from Junction 4 of the M18 near Thorne and explains the large amount of mud pies in the various fields around the area. You will know when they are really bricking it when there are several thousand lorry movements per day initiated to move the coal, this will be more of a PR exercise as the diminishing returns on efficiencies for fuel use in lorries moving fuel negates this as a practical real life option but it will show that are attempting to do something albeit too little too late. It would only take a terrorist attack, severe storm, flood, cable failure/damage or other extraordinary event to cut the import of power into this country and for how long? It is not common sense to place yourself at the end of a logistics chain by design knowing full well of the possible implications. The failure of that chain and resulting implications are entirely foreseeable. The risks is I am sure are assessed and mitigated for by the powers at be but how many times have there been problems with assessment and robust mitigation in the past? In my past experience far too much reliance for mitigation on diversity and over reliance on the same scant resources and low levels of skilled staff. The lack of over capacity of generation in this country has been on the horizon for many years and IF there are blackouts then the resulting mayhem will make the London summer riots look like a garden party. There are too little numbers of police or military forces left to sort these issues out. The country is walking into a situation that there is no apparent mitigation and planning for undertaken as they hope it will go away before the public realise the issue. When the government wake up in a prison cell they will not understand how the revolution took place that put them there! They have failed us yet again. However as a consumer you will be milked of cash until you run dry and until that day comes by constant prices rises![/p][/quote]KT, and on the bright side? Haywire

7:20pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Alf Garnett says...

Kevin Turvey wrote:
In the UK at present we have something like a 2% over capacity for generation.

The UK population is growing and demand for energy has always gone up and never down.

So Eggborough generates approx 4% of UK generation and if it closes then that put us at a 2% deficit in generation capacity for starters.

The whole market is rigged to buying now relatively cheaply generated but sold expensively French Nuclear Energy as an import (cheap because the French taxpayer built the plants then they were sold to EDF very cheaply).

If a problem with supply in France or getting it here occurs then we are in big trouble.

The current stocks of coal at the other UK northern power stations are still depleting slowly due to the resulting reduction in rail supply due to the Hatfield colliery landslide last year that has cut the number of coal trains leaving Goole from approx 30 a day to many less, resulting in it taking many more times than actually should be required to empty a coal vessel, they are currently stacked up in the Humber and out to see awaiting being able to be unloaded.

This is resulting in a lowering of coal stocks on site rather than shortages per say. This landslide recovery works are going to take a long long time as moving 1.2 million tonnes of debris that was until very recently still moving is not a quick job and then rebuilding the railway line!

All this mayhem can be viewed from Junction 4 of the M18 near Thorne and explains the large amount of mud pies in the various fields around the area.

You will know when they are really bricking it when there are several thousand lorry movements per day initiated to move the coal, this will be more of a PR exercise as the diminishing returns on efficiencies for fuel use in lorries moving fuel negates this as a practical real life option but it will show that are attempting to do something albeit too little too late.

It would only take a terrorist attack, severe storm, flood, cable failure/damage or other extraordinary event to cut the import of power into this country and for how long?

It is not common sense to place yourself at the end of a logistics chain by design knowing full well of the possible implications. The failure of that chain and resulting implications are entirely foreseeable.

The risks is I am sure are assessed and mitigated for by the powers at be but how many times have there been problems with assessment and robust mitigation in the past? In my past experience far too much reliance for mitigation on diversity and over reliance on the same scant resources and low levels of skilled staff.

The lack of over capacity of generation in this country has been on the horizon for many years and IF there are blackouts then the resulting mayhem will make the London summer riots look like a garden party.

There are too little numbers of police or military forces left to sort these issues out.

The country is walking into a situation that there is no apparent mitigation and planning for undertaken as they hope it will go away before the public realise the issue.

When the government wake up in a prison cell they will not understand how the revolution took place that put them there!

They have failed us yet again.

However as a consumer you will be milked of cash until you run dry and until that day comes by constant prices rises!
EDF is still a state owned company. The plants were built by the French state and remain in state hands.
[quote][p][bold]Kevin Turvey[/bold] wrote: In the UK at present we have something like a 2% over capacity for generation. The UK population is growing and demand for energy has always gone up and never down. So Eggborough generates approx 4% of UK generation and if it closes then that put us at a 2% deficit in generation capacity for starters. The whole market is rigged to buying now relatively cheaply generated but sold expensively French Nuclear Energy as an import (cheap because the French taxpayer built the plants then they were sold to EDF very cheaply). If a problem with supply in France or getting it here occurs then we are in big trouble. The current stocks of coal at the other UK northern power stations are still depleting slowly due to the resulting reduction in rail supply due to the Hatfield colliery landslide last year that has cut the number of coal trains leaving Goole from approx 30 a day to many less, resulting in it taking many more times than actually should be required to empty a coal vessel, they are currently stacked up in the Humber and out to see awaiting being able to be unloaded. This is resulting in a lowering of coal stocks on site rather than shortages per say. This landslide recovery works are going to take a long long time as moving 1.2 million tonnes of debris that was until very recently still moving is not a quick job and then rebuilding the railway line! All this mayhem can be viewed from Junction 4 of the M18 near Thorne and explains the large amount of mud pies in the various fields around the area. You will know when they are really bricking it when there are several thousand lorry movements per day initiated to move the coal, this will be more of a PR exercise as the diminishing returns on efficiencies for fuel use in lorries moving fuel negates this as a practical real life option but it will show that are attempting to do something albeit too little too late. It would only take a terrorist attack, severe storm, flood, cable failure/damage or other extraordinary event to cut the import of power into this country and for how long? It is not common sense to place yourself at the end of a logistics chain by design knowing full well of the possible implications. The failure of that chain and resulting implications are entirely foreseeable. The risks is I am sure are assessed and mitigated for by the powers at be but how many times have there been problems with assessment and robust mitigation in the past? In my past experience far too much reliance for mitigation on diversity and over reliance on the same scant resources and low levels of skilled staff. The lack of over capacity of generation in this country has been on the horizon for many years and IF there are blackouts then the resulting mayhem will make the London summer riots look like a garden party. There are too little numbers of police or military forces left to sort these issues out. The country is walking into a situation that there is no apparent mitigation and planning for undertaken as they hope it will go away before the public realise the issue. When the government wake up in a prison cell they will not understand how the revolution took place that put them there! They have failed us yet again. However as a consumer you will be milked of cash until you run dry and until that day comes by constant prices rises![/p][/quote]EDF is still a state owned company. The plants were built by the French state and remain in state hands. Alf Garnett

7:33pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Garrowby Turnoff says...

Apart from the "Big Bang"theory, just what is wrong with temporary nuclear power generation in a country abound with the World's finest scientists who'll eventually solve man's thirst for energy with a safe, cheap alternative?
Apart from the "Big Bang"theory, just what is wrong with temporary nuclear power generation in a country abound with the World's finest scientists who'll eventually solve man's thirst for energy with a safe, cheap alternative? Garrowby Turnoff

2:19am Tue 17 Dec 13

Magicman! says...

The key problem driving all this is the new Carbon Tax that is going to be applied to energy generation per Megawatt of electricity generated by burning coal - which will be rising to £6-something per MW per day as I recall. And who sets these charges? the EU - so Germany is essentially charging us FOR OUR OWN ELECTRICITY. It is high time our country cut out all this carbon bullcrap and focused on more important issues such as provisions to the poorest and most vulnerable in society.

-----

As a side note, I am liking the photo that has been used for this article, it has an 'edgy' feeling to it... would like to see it as a calendar background one month soon.
The key problem driving all this is the new Carbon Tax that is going to be applied to energy generation per Megawatt of electricity generated by burning coal - which will be rising to £6-something per MW per day as I recall. And who sets these charges? the EU - so Germany is essentially charging us FOR OUR OWN ELECTRICITY. It is high time our country cut out all this carbon bullcrap and focused on more important issues such as provisions to the poorest and most vulnerable in society. ----- As a side note, I am liking the photo that has been used for this article, it has an 'edgy' feeling to it... would like to see it as a calendar background one month soon. Magicman!

9:46am Tue 17 Dec 13

Shouter says...

baldiebiker wrote:
I like wind turbines, they can put one in my garden if they want, I wonder if it was the same when the first windmills were built, all the nimbys saying you should grind your corn by hand?
Try living near a wind farm then! I was two miles from one and the sound from it was horrendous. Day and night even through closed windows. Sounded like a revving JCB. No escape and no sleep! Pity the poor souls who have these noisy and ugly carbuncles inflicted upon them.
[quote][p][bold]baldiebiker[/bold] wrote: I like wind turbines, they can put one in my garden if they want, I wonder if it was the same when the first windmills were built, all the nimbys saying you should grind your corn by hand?[/p][/quote]Try living near a wind farm then! I was two miles from one and the sound from it was horrendous. Day and night even through closed windows. Sounded like a revving JCB. No escape and no sleep! Pity the poor souls who have these noisy and ugly carbuncles inflicted upon them. Shouter

10:57am Tue 17 Dec 13

Brighouse Lad says...

Shouter wrote:
baldiebiker wrote:
I like wind turbines, they can put one in my garden if they want, I wonder if it was the same when the first windmills were built, all the nimbys saying you should grind your corn by hand?
Try living near a wind farm then! I was two miles from one and the sound from it was horrendous. Day and night even through closed windows. Sounded like a revving JCB. No escape and no sleep! Pity the poor souls who have these noisy and ugly carbuncles inflicted upon them.
When you look on the web noise is a well known problem. Apparently the data the councils use at planning level is 15 years old and out of date. I found this website very interesting.

http://www.windbyte.
co.uk/noise.html
[quote][p][bold]Shouter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]baldiebiker[/bold] wrote: I like wind turbines, they can put one in my garden if they want, I wonder if it was the same when the first windmills were built, all the nimbys saying you should grind your corn by hand?[/p][/quote]Try living near a wind farm then! I was two miles from one and the sound from it was horrendous. Day and night even through closed windows. Sounded like a revving JCB. No escape and no sleep! Pity the poor souls who have these noisy and ugly carbuncles inflicted upon them.[/p][/quote]When you look on the web noise is a well known problem. Apparently the data the councils use at planning level is 15 years old and out of date. I found this website very interesting. http://www.windbyte. co.uk/noise.html Brighouse Lad

1:13pm Tue 17 Dec 13

anonyork says...

If we relied on solar or wind generation, what would we do on a still day or at night? Power generation is "on demand" and therefore needs to be controllable which rules out totally nuclear generated power - so what's left? Come on Greenpeace, you come up with the solution!
If we relied on solar or wind generation, what would we do on a still day or at night? Power generation is "on demand" and therefore needs to be controllable which rules out totally nuclear generated power - so what's left? Come on Greenpeace, you come up with the solution! anonyork

3:30pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Terry3 says...

@anonyork
There is one source that seems to be in the main ignored.. I fail to understand why though, and that is wave power or tidal power if you prefer.. it is absolutely constant, never stops, it is silent and once you have the equipment in place, it is free.. Now tell me.. why are the scientists ignoring this?
@anonyork There is one source that seems to be in the main ignored.. I fail to understand why though, and that is wave power or tidal power if you prefer.. it is absolutely constant, never stops, it is silent and once you have the equipment in place, it is free.. Now tell me.. why are the scientists ignoring this? Terry3

7:44pm Tue 17 Dec 13

ColdAsChristmas says...

Terry3, bcause they are commited to windmills. Hydro is good and so is coal and shale gas.
Terry3, bcause they are commited to windmills. Hydro is good and so is coal and shale gas. ColdAsChristmas

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