20mph scheme spreads to west York

8:06am Tuesday 12th March 2013 in News Photograph of the Author By Mark Stead, Political Reporter

RESIDENTS in west York will soon learn how the next stage of a city-wide 20mph speed limit scheme will affect them.

Acomb, Holgate, Dringhouses, Woodthorpe, Poppleton and Westfield are next in line for lower speed limits, scheduled to come into force in spring and summer.

City of York Council said their introduction in residential streets had been backed by the police, schools and businesses.

However, Upper Poppleton Parish Council has opposed a 20mph limit around Millfield Lane, Main Street and Long Ridge Lane, saying there was “no justification” for it and claiming new signs were too expensive and harmed the village’s “ambience”.

The city council said signed-only speed limits would be cheaper than measures such as humps, and Fishergate trials had shown they reduced average speeds by three miles an hour, with a South Bank pilot scheme winning local support.

Coun Dave Merrett, cabinet member for transport, planning and sustainability, said: “This is proving a cost-effective and successful scheme, and lower speed limits give drivers more time to react to the presence of other road users and reduce the likelihood and scale of any accidents.”

Inspector Michael Barron, of North Yorkshire Police’s roads policing group, said reducing speed limits through residential areas would make the environment feel safer for road users and pedestrians. The severity of injuries in a collision would also be reduced.

The West of York Schools Partnership, which includes head teachers, said it was encouraged by positive results in 20mph trials.

Ken Hesketh, chief executive of Holgate Park-based Benenden Health, said: “We are fully supportive of local schemes encouraging a healthier environment for walking and cycling.

“Our employees commute to our offices from all over York. Freeing up traffic flows and enabling improved safety from alternative forms of transport can only improve York’s infrastructure, make communities safer and support businesses.”

But the Poppleton scheme was criticised by Rural West York councillor Ian Gillies, who said would be a “total waste of time and money”. Fellow ward councillor Chris Steward said: “20mph limits will do nothing to reduce accidents as they will breed contempt for speed limits.

“Many Poppleton roads do not need a speed as low as 20mph. This will be pointless cost and signage, rather than focusing on lower speeds where it matters.”

Residents in and around proposed 20mph areas will receive information during April and May and details will soon be displayed in libraries in Acomb, Bishopthorpe, Copmanthorpe and Dringhouses.

More information is at york20mph.org

Comments(27)

Woody G Mellor says...
8:18am Tue 12 Mar 13

The whole scheme is a joke! It'd be funny if it wasn't such a waste of our much needed cash.

The 20mph limit is generally ignored in south Bank. Anyone who doesn't believe me should just take a walk from Sainsburys at the junction with Bishy Road and walk up to Terry's. Its an utter waste of money, and yes, the signs really give a sense of useless clutter.

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AnotherPointofView says...
8:36am Tue 12 Mar 13

"Backed by Police"??? Previously they said they didn't. It was reported that they wouldn't police.

This whole scheme is a waste of money. No one keeps to the speed limit in Southbank.

Put the money to better use.

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Buzz Light-year says...
8:40am Tue 12 Mar 13

Well done Poppleton parish council for standing up to it.

No justification for it.

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meme says...
8:46am Tue 12 Mar 13

Good to know the council listens to the majority views and ploughs ahead regardless wasting our money and time

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Jazzper says...
9:04am Tue 12 Mar 13

Buzz Light-year wrote:
Well done Poppleton parish council for standing up to it.

No justification for it.
I hope Clifton and Rawcliffe parish council show the same common sense. utter waste of money and completely unnecessary!

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powerwatt says...
9:14am Tue 12 Mar 13

Talk about a few selective quotes. IF the Inspector in question said that he supports a blanket 20 mph. He may want to speak to his boss that shows it increases accident rates as there is no element of rise in awareness as there would be around a school when coming into a 20mph zone.

That and all research shows it is pointless, and the police can't enforce it.

There is only evidence to show 20mph ZONES work, but not blanket.

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Oaklands Resident says...
9:36am Tue 12 Mar 13

Something murky going on here.

The Police have previously said that they don't have the resources to enforce wide area 20 mph speed limits. 20 mph limits have to be "self enforcing" Why the change?

.....and why is a private company like Beneden allowing itself to be dragged into a highly political argument like this.Sounds like a Labour politician is pulling their strings

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roskoboskovic says...
9:44am Tue 12 Mar 13

come on ycc give us a complete run down of the costs for new signs and road marking.in these supposed times of austerity ycc always can come up with cash for these hare brained schemes as long as they follow the anti car/pro cycling agenda.i ve never driven into one of these zones and had to slow down because the driver in front has slowed from 30-20.it doesn t happen,we all ignore them,the police don t care so please spend the money on real issues.

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pedalling paul says...
9:55am Tue 12 Mar 13

I reckon that we should have a traffic free for all day. 30 mph limits, all traffic lights switched off and access/parking restrictions lifted Then we'll really get a flavour of the gridlock that our descendants will inheritl ...

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Woody G Mellor says...
10:02am Tue 12 Mar 13

pedalling paul wrote:
I reckon that we should have a traffic free for all day. 30 mph limits, all traffic lights switched off and access/parking restrictions lifted Then we'll really get a flavour of the gridlock that our descendants will inheritl ...
What the hell has that got to do with the useless 20mph limit?

NOTHING!

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tobefair says...
10:05am Tue 12 Mar 13

"and Fishergate trials had shown they reduced average speeds by three miles an hour,"

As we drivers know to keep up with the flow of traffic you generally have to exceed the speed limit.

So assuming average speeds in 30mph areas is 33mph introducing a 20mph limit will reduce speeds to 30mph.

What a waste of money!

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captain_nick says...
10:42am Tue 12 Mar 13

About £500k was the cost for the ones in South Bank I believe?

Complete waste of time and money all round.

The place looks a tip with the signs spoiling the view of the city walls etc.

Nobody adheres to the new limits in reality. Someone who drives 40mph in a 30mph zone, isn't going to go slower just because it's now 20mph.

Pedestrians will be expecting cars to be slower, but in reality they won't be...thus making it more dangerous to cross. As expectations and reality differ.

Emissions are worse at 20mph than 30mph despite propaganda saying the opposite.

If people used one of the many crossing on Bishopthorpe Rd, there would be no real issues anyway.

And from the research the council did into speed limits already in the area, the average speed was already below 20mph on most roads...so why waste that money?

When I asked one of the chaps handing out leaflets opposite the Swan on Bish Rd "Do you not feel this is a waste of money and spoils the look of the place. And can you see that the traffic is mainly at a standstill from Scarcroft Rd to Clifford's Tower", he shrugged his shoulders, agreed and said he was just handing out the leaflets...

How about the council just set up an incinerator in the centre of town that we can all just dump our cash into directly and save them time conjuring up useless plots to waste it?

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imassey says...
12:04pm Tue 12 Mar 13

pedalling paul wrote:
I reckon that we should have a traffic free for all day. 30 mph limits, all traffic lights switched off and access/parking restrictions lifted Then we'll really get a flavour of the gridlock that our descendants will inheritl ...
Idiot.

(And I am a cyclist...)

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Shouter says...
12:14pm Tue 12 Mar 13

Why don't the labour lot go the whole hog and ban ALL traffic from within the City of York boundary. That seems to be their ultimate aim.

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Mr Udigawa says...
12:15pm Tue 12 Mar 13

I'm quite happy to slow down in these 20mph limits, and over the past few weeks have noticed a lot less aggressive tailgating as people get used to them.
There must have been uproar when the 30mph limit was introduced all those years ago with a fraction of the traffic we have on the roads now.
Some people's sense of self importance is incredible.

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rodney'sdog says...
12:24pm Tue 12 Mar 13

RIDICULOUS! Another area that will shortly be full of unbreathable air and PM250s-why do they think so many citys are abandoning the traffic calming schemes? Polluiton is a far greater risk than the chances of somebody being injured by speeding driver-FACT!
More than 5 million children in the UK have breathing problems now and it needs to be adressed. Keep cars moving-dont have them blocking up our streets. Lets get York moving again,.

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Mulgrave says...
12:59pm Tue 12 Mar 13

When the original uncalmed 20 mph scheme was being promoted by a Anna Semlyen in the very narrow streets around her home in Fishergate I rang the Council to ask how many injury accidents had occurred in the pilot area. I was told none in the previous three years.

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Buzz Light-year says...
1:00pm Tue 12 Mar 13

This council's policies and implementations are just a bad as the last one.
Forcing things on our city that the people don't want.
Using "consultations" like:
We propose This Thing. Do you prefer
A) This Thing
B) This Thing with bells on.
C) This Thing

Years of hodge-podging different schemes with no continuity or consistency from both the last LibDem council and the current Labour council is making our city like a badly laid crazy paving.

Wish there was an solution.

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Ichabod76 says...
1:02pm Tue 12 Mar 13

Just this morning I drove through the South Bank 20 zone at 30 mph followed by a Police BMW 5 series
did they stop me and give me a ticker ?

The answer is no

Waste of money ?

Does anyone know if Anna Semlyen gets paid by 20's Plenty ?

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Mr Udigawa says...
1:07pm Tue 12 Mar 13

Ichabod76 wrote:
Just this morning I drove through the South Bank 20 zone at 30 mph followed by a Police BMW 5 series did they stop me and give me a ticker ? The answer is no Waste of money ? Does anyone know if Anna Semlyen gets paid by 20's Plenty ?
I wouldn't expect the police to give you a ticker, this would more likely be the work of a paramedic.

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greenmonkey says...
1:11pm Tue 12 Mar 13

People who say they make no difference are presumably equally happy to break the 30mph limit, relying on the fact that police enforcement in the city is minimal. However drivers need to consider this - if you are involved in a collision with a pedestrian, cyclist or other vehicle and you are driving at more than the prevailing speed limit, the burden of blame is on you for exceeding the limit, whether or not the cyclist or pedestrian was paying attention. If you had been driving more slowly the chances are you might have been able to avoid a collision. You might resent the limit, but it is the legal limit so ignore it at your peril - there could be more than just points on your licence to consider.

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Mulgrave says...
1:12pm Tue 12 Mar 13

Ichabod76 wrote:
Just this morning I drove through the South Bank 20 zone at 30 mph followed by a Police BMW 5 series
did they stop me and give me a ticker ?

The answer is no

Waste of money ?

Does anyone know if Anna Semlyen gets paid by 20's Plenty ?
She is the self employed national campaign manager

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MrsHoney says...
1:44pm Tue 12 Mar 13

I thought they'd abandoned this stupid idea because it was too expensive?

I think most people are happy to stick to the speed limit, if they can see the logic in it. 30mph in built up areas seems fair enough to me, and I along with many others will drive slower than that if the conditions require it. However, when you're being forced to drive at 20mph along roads that you rarely see people crossing, and cyclists have their own lane you do wonder what is the point? Outside school's fair enough but otherwise? As for people following the current 20mph limits, well, I think the only area I go along where it's been introduced (along from Nunnery Lane) I have yet to see anyone slow down, a drop in speed of 3mph does not sound like a great success to me! I can't work out the point of this zone either. Any suggestions?
I am a great believer in logic and wasting thousands on this scheme is not logical. Let pedestrians and cyclists take responsibility for their own safety instead of assuming accidents are caused by people driving faster than 20mph.

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Ronald Crumble says...
2:56pm Tue 12 Mar 13

oh we are in debt with waste and recycling ...oh no money to fix potholes and repair things that need attention ... we wont spend it on upgrading parts of the ring road ,we don't have money for that ...but these morons have money for extra cycle lanes all over york which to be quite honest we don't need ...we have been years without them..but now we're all so green..oh and we seem to have hundreds of thousands to create 20mph zones all round york ..which result in no changes to accidents, people don't slow down.. waste of everyone's time and money!! how about all these green morons bore off to somewhere where people care ..rant over

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DEKKA says...
3:22pm Tue 12 Mar 13

Ronald Crumble wrote:
oh we are in debt with waste and recycling ...oh no money to fix potholes and repair things that need attention ... we wont spend it on upgrading parts of the ring road ,we don't have money for that ...but these morons have money for extra cycle lanes all over york which to be quite honest we don't need ...we have been years without them..but now we're all so green..oh and we seem to have hundreds of thousands to create 20mph zones all round york ..which result in no changes to accidents, people don't slow down.. waste of everyone's time and money!! how about all these green morons bore off to somewhere where people care ..rant over
This isn't a green issue its a 'safety' issue although there is very little evidence to support the thinking that 20mph will make the roads significantly safer.

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Torkie says...
3:38pm Tue 12 Mar 13

If anything, driving below your competency level could be dangerous.
Go away Anna, we know this is your ideology and not needed. I think it's disgusting honestly.

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Prob says...
3:49pm Tue 12 Mar 13

Plenty of roads already in Acomb have been 20mph for years - see the Danebury Drive area.

Routinely ignored for years also and never policed.

What. Is. The. Point.

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