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Drivers slate York Station road layout trial (From York Press)
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Drivers slate York Station road layout trial
8:19am Friday 1st February 2013 in News
By Dan Bean, dan.bean@thepress.co.uk
From left, Ken Blackburn, Jim Love and Ian Pinder, drivers for Fleetways Taxis, who are unhappy with potential changes to the pick-up and drop-off point at York Station
Proposed changes to the road layout at York Railway Station have been condemned as “awkward” and “diabolical”.
The drop-off point at the front of the station has been blocked off to private-hire drivers, who now have to leave passengers round the corner from the station in Tea Room Square.
Ian Pinder, who has driven for Fleetways Taxis for 13 years, said this was not just inconvenient when helping customers with bags, but could also be dangerous for disabled customers.
He said: “With the wind and rain it’s not fair on disabled customers that we can’t drop them off right inside when the Hackney Carriages can.
“For us, with everyone forced into Tea Room Square, it is more awkward for dropping off as it’s blocking traffic. It’s absolutely diabolical really, when we’re trying to take people with suitcases or disabled people into the station and our drivers have had to leave their cars round the corner and help them in.”
Mr Pinder said since the drop-off point had been at the front of the station, traffic had become a regular problem in Station Road.
He said: “I have spoken to station drivers before who have had complaints from customers, as it can cost £2 on the meter before you even get out of the loop.
“I don’t know what they’re trying to achieve, because it’s no safer, especially for the disabled as they are having to walk a longer distance.”
An East Coast spokesman said the changes were part of a two-week trial by the company, which runs the station, and would continue until Monday, February 11.
He said: “Its purpose is to improve vehicle and pedestrian safety at this very busy location.
“The trial is being conducted with full involvement and support from City of York Council as the highways authority, who are installing additional signage to ensure the trial relocation is clearly understood by everyone using the station. We have also liaised with the major taxi operator at the station.
“At the end of the trial, we will revert to the previous arrangements and assess the results, including consulting fully with the taxi proprietors, before considering any longer-term revisions to the layout.”
Comments(56)
Buzz Light-year
says...
8:46am Fri 1 Feb 13
Just like some of the drivers.
Keeet Lemon
says...
8:55am Fri 1 Feb 13
maybejustmaybe
says...
9:14am Fri 1 Feb 13
Stressed Out
says...
9:16am Fri 1 Feb 13
The Press need to get to the station tonight at rush hour, it will be absolute chaos.
peterstreet
says...
9:19am Fri 1 Feb 13
peterstreet
says...
9:33am Fri 1 Feb 13
nick clogg
says...
9:34am Fri 1 Feb 13
peterstreet wrote:totally agree
what rubbish! it is safer to drop passengers including the disabled in tearoom square as there is a nice little lay by making it safer and more convenient. The disabled then do not have to struggle between often moving station cabs to reach the concourse as the access from tea room square is all pedestrianized. What these drivers really want, I believe is to be able to continue to wait for prebooked incoming passengers in the drop off lane inside the station, a practice which is dangerous and inconveniences other station users and causes the queues. Dishonest Dishonest!
only human
says...
9:36am Fri 1 Feb 13
The loop going into and out of the short stay car park for dropping off picking up is horrendous.There is just not enough space for buses,taxis.private vehicles and not to mention bikes and pedestrians.
You literally feel as though you are taking other peoples lives in your hands every time you need to access the station.
There does seem to be and extra wide highway to the front of the station so it just needs a genius to draw up a better layout for flowing access and this may mean traffic lights to allow each section of traffic travelling alon that stretch to get a fair turn at getting in and out of the station.
Lets remember though,this isnt just about Taxis and buses who always seem to get the better options on access to anywhere,this is about all sections of the communities who utilise the station.
Any ideas should be welcome really because the situation there is dire!
Stressed Out
says...
9:40am Fri 1 Feb 13
snugglebunny
says...
9:41am Fri 1 Feb 13
happyflapper
says...
10:02am Fri 1 Feb 13
amike
says...
10:15am Fri 1 Feb 13
Von_Dutch
says...
10:18am Fri 1 Feb 13
peterstreet wrote:Absolutely spot-on with your summation.
what rubbish! it is safer to drop passengers including the disabled in tearoom square as there is a nice little lay by making it safer and more convenient. The disabled then do not have to struggle between often moving station cabs to reach the concourse as the access from tea room square is all pedestrianized. What these drivers really want, I believe is to be able to continue to wait for prebooked incoming passengers in the drop off lane inside the station, a practice which is dangerous and inconveniences other station users and causes the queues. Dishonest Dishonest!
peterstreet
says...
10:25am Fri 1 Feb 13
Stressed Out wrote:sorry if I confused you, I was suggesting what might become a solution after the experiment, after all that is what we are talking about! there is plenty of room to create a taxi drop point by utilising the lay bys which exsist and the one I was specifically suggesting is situated on the left of tearoom square as you enter just after the vehicle exit from the concourse.
And those nice little laybys in Tea Room Square are loading bays which means you can't wait or drop off in them, a fact an employee at the station was telling cars recently, moving them on etc
coldcoffee
says...
10:33am Fri 1 Feb 13
roskoboskovic
says...
10:34am Fri 1 Feb 13
pedalling paul
says...
11:20am Fri 1 Feb 13
Meantime it would help if the amount of "No Smoking" signage can be increased inside the outer portico.I'm fed up of having my nostrils asssailed by cancerous fumes while queuing for a taxi.
Jiffy
says...
12:02pm Fri 1 Feb 13
I would rather take my chances with smoke from a few severely neutralised cigarettes than a couple of lungfulls from your precious bus just up the road
Hoofarted
says...
12:05pm Fri 1 Feb 13
Why don't the council offer an alternative rank to people? Are they frightened of breaking their monopoly?
Ignatius Lumpopo
says...
12:26pm Fri 1 Feb 13
yorkborn66
says...
12:38pm Fri 1 Feb 13
coldcoffee wrote:Totally agree with you Coldcoffee:
Everyone hates taxi drivers! Until it's raining, or your car is off the road, or you have heavy luggage, or are in a wheelchair...
I Know Ian Pinder personally and as an ex taxi driver myself (not for Fleetways)
Without trying to patronize anyone but without the services of Taxis and Private Hire, we would have more vehicles on the road, more drink drivers, elderly and disabled people unable to get to hospital appointments and the Doctors, the list goes on. There are good and bad drivers and riders in all forms of transport, but you would not have to expect on occasions that your passenger might be sick or abusive after a night out in your car. The majority of taxi and private hire drivers drive responsibly because that’s their job, if their car is off the road then they are not earning.
So come on, cut them some slack.
The situation at York station is a joke for pedestrians and all forms of transport arriving and departing. A fatal accident is waiting to happen.
yorkborn66
says...
12:49pm Fri 1 Feb 13
yorkborn66 wrote:When I said I know Ian Pinder personally and as an ex work college, my point is that he is raising a genuine concern on behalf of drivers and is not the type of person to rant for a bit of publicity and a pic in the Press.
coldcoffee wrote:Totally agree with you Coldcoffee:
Everyone hates taxi drivers! Until it's raining, or your car is off the road, or you have heavy luggage, or are in a wheelchair...
I Know Ian Pinder personally and as an ex taxi driver myself (not for Fleetways)
Without trying to patronize anyone but without the services of Taxis and Private Hire, we would have more vehicles on the road, more drink drivers, elderly and disabled people unable to get to hospital appointments and the Doctors, the list goes on. There are good and bad drivers and riders in all forms of transport, but you would not have to expect on occasions that your passenger might be sick or abusive after a night out in your car. The majority of taxi and private hire drivers drive responsibly because that’s their job, if their car is off the road then they are not earning.
So come on, cut them some slack.
The situation at York station is a joke for pedestrians and all forms of transport arriving and departing. A fatal accident is waiting to happen.
Buzz Light-year
says...
12:59pm Fri 1 Feb 13
yorkborn66 wrote:I would never ever get a taxi in York.
coldcoffee wrote: Everyone hates taxi drivers! Until it's raining, or your car is off the road, or you have heavy luggage, or are in a wheelchair...Totally agree with you Coldcoffee: I Know Ian Pinder personally and as an ex taxi driver myself (not for Fleetways) Without trying to patronize anyone but without the services of Taxis and Private Hire, we would have more vehicles on the road, more drink drivers, elderly and disabled people unable to get to hospital appointments and the Doctors, the list goes on. There are good and bad drivers and riders in all forms of transport, but you would not have to expect on occasions that your passenger might be sick or abusive after a night out in your car. The majority of taxi and private hire drivers drive responsibly because that’s their job, if their car is off the road then they are not earning. So come on, cut them some slack. The situation at York station is a joke for pedestrians and all forms of transport arriving and departing. A fatal accident is waiting to happen.
There are indeed good and drivers and riders but it's funny how many times when you see bad behaviour it's a taxi.
Ironically a lot of taxi drivers think one of their duties is to police the roads too.
Many of them have a keen and active dislike for cyclists and as has been said above they regularly park in the green box at the lights.
I *think* red plate 550 drives for Fleetways.
I've seen him driving very dangerously more than once.
mjr119
says...
12:59pm Fri 1 Feb 13
- For buses leaving from outside the station
- For cars turning right from the station
- For cars turning left from the station, so that they can use the slip lane that buses use and help speed up the flow of traffic
- For people trying to enter and exit the short stay car park
It would be a nightmare to create, but it needs to be controlled way more than it is now. I think that Tea Room Square, turns normal, rational drivers in to ignorant, aggressive, lunatics - me included.
far2bizzy
says...
1:01pm Fri 1 Feb 13
pedalling paul wrote:“I recall reading that the York Central development could potentially relocate some vehicular access to the opposite side of the station” – yes, I’ve wondered why they don’t do that – ‘Departures’ at the front, ‘Arrivals’ at the back – it would ease pedestrian flow through the station as well.
I recall reading that the York Central development could potentially relocate some vehicular access to the opposite side of the station, as happened with the last big changes at Leeds. More encouragement to walk, cycle, take the bus or car share can also reduce demand for private car access. That of course will make life easier for the taxi trade.
Meantime it would help if the amount of "No Smoking" signage can be increased inside the outer portico.I'm fed up of having my nostrils asssailed by cancerous fumes while queuing for a taxi.
bob the builder
says...
1:04pm Fri 1 Feb 13
BioLogic
says...
1:10pm Fri 1 Feb 13
The Taxi drivers pay more for a license and should rightly expect more for their money and greater privileges. On that basis the private hire drivers have no cause for complaint. They already get away with blue murder using Bus Lanes and restricted roads (such as Coppergate) with impunity going unpunished by NYP so it would seem churlish to therefore complain here!
yorkborn66
says...
1:19pm Fri 1 Feb 13
Buzz Light-year wrote:I don’t want to get into an argument with you Buzz, but the same can be said for the rest of road users. Like I consistently say, it is the minority of road users that highlight the problems.
yorkborn66 wrote:I would never ever get a taxi in York.
coldcoffee wrote: Everyone hates taxi drivers! Until it's raining, or your car is off the road, or you have heavy luggage, or are in a wheelchair...Totally agree with you Coldcoffee: I Know Ian Pinder personally and as an ex taxi driver myself (not for Fleetways) Without trying to patronize anyone but without the services of Taxis and Private Hire, we would have more vehicles on the road, more drink drivers, elderly and disabled people unable to get to hospital appointments and the Doctors, the list goes on. There are good and bad drivers and riders in all forms of transport, but you would not have to expect on occasions that your passenger might be sick or abusive after a night out in your car. The majority of taxi and private hire drivers drive responsibly because that’s their job, if their car is off the road then they are not earning. So come on, cut them some slack. The situation at York station is a joke for pedestrians and all forms of transport arriving and departing. A fatal accident is waiting to happen.
There are indeed good and drivers and riders but it's funny how many times when you see bad behaviour it's a taxi.
Ironically a lot of taxi drivers think one of their duties is to police the roads too.
Many of them have a keen and active dislike for cyclists and as has been said above they regularly park in the green box at the lights.
I *think* red plate 550 drives for Fleetways.
I've seen him driving very dangerously more than once.
Personally I can say: as a keen cyclist, car and van driver and Motorbike rider, ex taxi driver, I have treated everyone on the road and pedestrian as an idiot.
Anticipate what could happen because it will probably will. Courtesy to other road users costs nothing and paying attention to what you are doing stops accidents. That is why in 30 years I have never had an accident (my fault).
I am not on my own when I say this; there are many more people who can say the same and better.
Stressed Out
says...
1:35pm Fri 1 Feb 13
BioLogic wrote:Yes there is a difference of £10 between the licences and I'll think you'll find that both taxi and private hire vehicles have a legal right to use bus lanes and Coppergate.
There is a crucial difference being missed here. The one between a Taxi (or Hackney Carriage) and a private hire vehicle. The Taxi drivers pay more for a license and should rightly expect more for their money and greater privileges. On that basis the private hire drivers have no cause for complaint. They already get away with blue murder using Bus Lanes and restricted roads (such as Coppergate) with impunity going unpunished by NYP so it would seem churlish to therefore complain here!
lezyork1966
says...
2:10pm Fri 1 Feb 13
Dropping off was never an issue years ago, and was not an issue after the current shape with drop offs under the canopy and pickups in tea room sq.
I dont know who thought of the new idea and pushed it to east coast but i think its just a few of the hireachy in 'station taxis' dick waving that 'we can do what we want at station'
I've not driven for a while now so it does not affect my income but i do know many PH drivers are a bit miffed.
yorkborn66
says...
2:37pm Fri 1 Feb 13
bob the builder wrote:Speaking from personal experience that’s far from the truth.
.. taxi drivers have a colleague on the council.. so they think they'll get what they want, and if he doesn't play ball they put pressure on by appearing in the press. I think it's called bullying...
The department in question is called, Taxi Licensing.
The sole purpose of this department is to ensure the safety of members of the public. All taxi and Private hire must undergo Police background checks before obtaining a license as well as other checks.
All vehicles must undertake a separate Taxi (Private Hire) test every year as well as the usual MOTC.
Every Driver regardless of Private Hire or Taxi must pay fees to relicense themselves and their vehicles every year. The Insurance as a Taxi Driver and private Hire is in the thousands each year compared to private car insurance.
Also at a certain age every driver must pay and undergo a medical and pass with a certificate to be presented to Taxi Licensing.
Taxi licensing is there also for members of the public that have complaints against drivers, and they do follow up reported claims.
Anyone with a complaint can contact City of York Council and ask for Taxi Licensing to make a complaint.
Believe you me, as an ex taxi driver, taxi licensing how the powers to revoke your license instantly if circumstances dictate.
They are there to protect the public and maintain a very high standard of drivers and vehicles that serve the public of York.
Yorkborneinbse
says...
4:21pm Fri 1 Feb 13
Not many comments have really considered the point of the problem, and those best to comment are those who have to use the system on a regular basis as they try to provide a decent and efficient service to their Customers.
That said, it is right that considerations are given to Vehicle/Pedestrian segregation, but if the Tea Room Square is the best option for Improved Traffic flow & Safety, I would eat my hat if I wore one.
Before anyone can Improve a process, they must first fully understand that process, and many on here clearly don't. Rather choosing just to jump on other non related Issues. Sure there are bad Taxi drivers, but not lets condemn them all.
Walk a mile in my shoes springs to mind.
These guys and countless others,are only trying to make a decent living in difficult circumstances £1.40 a litre!
Those who misunderstand that are no doubt not fully considering the Issue at hand.
Wouldn't it be novel, for those who impose these 'trials' without due consideration of the users, first had a discussion with them? Some of us believe we havent got a monopoly on good Ideas. Seemingly the East Coast Railways and YCC dont follow that logic, and not surprisingly, continue to impose bad ones on a regular basis.
yorkborn66
says...
4:56pm Fri 1 Feb 13
Wouldn't it be novel, for those who impose these 'trials' without due consideration of the users, first had a discussion with them? Some of us believe we havent got a monopoly on good Ideas. Seemingly the East Coast Railways and YCC dont follow that logic, and not surprisingly, continue to impose bad ones on a regular basis.
Thank you for bringing the discussion back on topic.
stopatred
says...
5:19pm Fri 1 Feb 13
Yorkborneinbse
says...
5:28pm Fri 1 Feb 13
stopatred wrote:I rest my case.
taxi drivers? sorry no sympathy whatsoever. saw one taxi toot his horn at a car driver because he wouldnt let him out into aline of stationary traffic another just pulled out from kfc no indication nearly hit car next to him what must the passengers think they need to learn some manners big style
Yorkborneinbse
says...
5:28pm Fri 1 Feb 13
stopatred wrote:I rest my case.
taxi drivers? sorry no sympathy whatsoever. saw one taxi toot his horn at a car driver because he wouldnt let him out into aline of stationary traffic another just pulled out from kfc no indication nearly hit car next to him what must the passengers think they need to learn some manners big style
yorkborn66
says...
6:22pm Fri 1 Feb 13
If you find it hard to drive around York without whining, try Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham or London Then If you are not totally convinced try Paris, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, and Dublin. You may come back thinking York is not that bad at all for manners!
Some of you think if it’s not a cycle then slag everyone else on the road off.
Roads are designed for ALL, including my cycle and motor vehicles.
Can we get back on topic FFS
yorkborn66
says...
6:23pm Fri 1 Feb 13
stopatred wrote:So you highlight one problem amongst hundreds of fares picked up and dropped off everyday. Had the car driver let the Taxi in (been courteous) then traffic might flow better in general. This act of courtesy by all form of transport would help traffic flow better.
taxi drivers? sorry no sympathy whatsoever. saw one taxi toot his horn at a car driver because he wouldnt let him out into aline of stationary traffic another just pulled out from kfc no indication nearly hit car next to him what must the passengers think they need to learn some manners big style
If you find it hard to drive around York without whining, try Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham or London Then If you are not totally convinced try Paris, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, and Dublin. You may come back thinking York is not that bad at all for manners!
Some of you think if it’s not a cycle then slag everyone else on the road off.
Roads are designed for ALL, including my cycle and motor vehicles.
Can we get back on topic FFS
york_chap
says...
6:32pm Fri 1 Feb 13
MLewisW
says...
6:53pm Fri 1 Feb 13
happyflapper wrote:Never travelling with Fleetways now. Driver should be sacked.
How right peterstreet it. When taxi drivers learn (1) to have consideration for other road users when pulling in, pulling out and parking, (2) to obey urban speed limits, (3) to respect the green cycle boxes at traffic lights, (4) to pay attention to 'keep clear' markings, and maybe even (5) to use their indicators, I will listen to their complaints. Witnessing incidents like the one I saw last week, in which a Fleetways driver opened his window and dumped a whole lot of litter straight onto the nearest pavement before driving off, only confirms my low opinion. So, sorry chaps, I have no respect for your self-serving whinging about the station or anything else!
TERRIER3
says...
7:37pm Fri 1 Feb 13
yorkborn66 wrote:exactly, mate, ive lived in a big city ( BRISTOL ) and a large town ( HUDDERSFIELD ) and believe me york is positively polite, taxi drivers, bus drivers are fantastic compared to those 2 places, i have to say most problems ive seen are caused by inconsiderate normal car drivers who then go on to complain about bus and taxi drivers when they are no better themselves, but thats just society in general nowadays, its always someone elses fault
stopatred wrote:So you highlight one problem amongst hundreds of fares picked up and dropped off everyday. Had the car driver let the Taxi in (been courteous) then traffic might flow better in general. This act of courtesy by all form of transport would help traffic flow better.
taxi drivers? sorry no sympathy whatsoever. saw one taxi toot his horn at a car driver because he wouldnt let him out into aline of stationary traffic another just pulled out from kfc no indication nearly hit car next to him what must the passengers think they need to learn some manners big style
If you find it hard to drive around York without whining, try Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham or London Then If you are not totally convinced try Paris, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, and Dublin. You may come back thinking York is not that bad at all for manners!
Some of you think if it’s not a cycle then slag everyone else on the road off.
Roads are designed for ALL, including my cycle and motor vehicles.
Can we get back on topic FFS
TERRIER3
says...
7:39pm Fri 1 Feb 13
yorkshirelad
says...
8:04pm Fri 1 Feb 13
But, I'm sorry, the speed which I see too many (not all) taxis driving at is simply unacceptable. Late at night, especially on weekends or race nights, it seems the speed limits don't apply at all. I have teenage children who go out in town in the evening and dread a road accident with one of these speeding taxis.
Like many people I know it annoys me when I see a taxi flying by at what appears to be around twice the speed limit.
So, many apologies to the decent ones of you, but the irresponsible ones are giving your trade a bad name. The worst of it is that you so often see fit to lecture the rest of us on...of all things...safety (see above).
I understand you wanting the prime spots at the station but you need to change to get a bit more sympathy from many York residents.
Yorkborneinbse
says...
8:05pm Fri 1 Feb 13
MLewisW wrote:What a load of absolute claptrap you post MLewis.
happyflapper wrote:Never travelling with Fleetways now. Driver should be sacked.
How right peterstreet it. When taxi drivers learn (1) to have consideration for other road users when pulling in, pulling out and parking, (2) to obey urban speed limits, (3) to respect the green cycle boxes at traffic lights, (4) to pay attention to 'keep clear' markings, and maybe even (5) to use their indicators, I will listen to their complaints. Witnessing incidents like the one I saw last week, in which a Fleetways driver opened his window and dumped a whole lot of litter straight onto the nearest pavement before driving off, only confirms my low opinion. So, sorry chaps, I have no respect for your self-serving whinging about the station or anything else!
If we all followed your opinion, the right for any of us to have a say, about anything would leave us all mute!
Glass houses and all that, you self righteous bigot.
Paul Meoff
says...
8:11pm Fri 1 Feb 13
velvetdixie
says...
8:14pm Fri 1 Feb 13
More and more it's looking that way.
ouseswimmer
says...
8:24pm Fri 1 Feb 13
Yorkborneinbse
says...
8:36pm Fri 1 Feb 13
ouseswimmer wrote:Exactly the type of Idea, and generation of similar, the East Coast Rail & YCC should be seeking.
Exiting tea room sq should be a left turn only. That would speed up traffic.
At last, after 40 odd comments, someone breaks free !
Buzz Light-year
says...
8:40pm Fri 1 Feb 13
Buzz Light-year
says...
8:51pm Fri 1 Feb 13
Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham or London Then If you are not totally convinced try Paris, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, and Dublin.
I've driven in all except Madrid.
The Italian roads are by far the maddest.
yorkborn66
says...
11:30pm Fri 1 Feb 13
Buzz Light-year wrote:If you fancy a complete death wish Naples is the place. Footpaths maybe there but don’t be fooled. Used as unofficial lane for speeding scooters and motorcycles even if pedestrians are walking on them.
Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham or London Then If you are not totally convinced try Paris, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, and Dublin.
I've driven in all except Madrid.
The Italian roads are by far the maddest.
It was just complete anarchy.
yorliebill
says...
2:58am Sat 2 Feb 13
smudge1 wrote:Taxi Trade Bashing......Never
Taxi drivers complaining....Never !!
ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZ
ZZZZZZZ
aa42john
says...
5:55pm Sat 2 Feb 13
1. Whether private cars (incl. ALL taxis) should be able to use the station forecourt
2. How to route traffic round Station Square.
I can't see why there should be any problem with the first.
For (2), why not just route the traffic round Station Square in a counter-clockwise direction for once? This would clear a lot of the holdups. However, this should be IN ADDITION to leaving the station forecourt open for all users.
matroom
says...
3:08am Sun 3 Feb 13
Magicman!
says...
3:29am Sun 3 Feb 13
Why not either just reverse the entire flow through the portico or change priorities to let buses through the portico and taxis stay outside where the bus stops currently are... It would show to people arriving in the city that York is focused on more sustainable transport rather than the current car-centric measures the council usually makes.
smudge1 says...
8:25am Fri 1 Feb 13