Wind turbine bid stirs up a storm of protest (From York Press)

As all NIMBYS know there is all ways somewhere better for the development to go. wist social housing its at the other end of the village- wind farms its the next district. we want the power we have to have the development

Any one noticed how similar myselby is to chissy.

No?

Bet the local farmer really feels part of that community. Hope it all goes through and the community have a power cut, so they can watch him being smug A.F

myselby wrote:
As all NIMBYS know there is all ways somewhere better for the development to go. wist social housing its at the other end of the village- wind farms its the next district. we want the power we have to have the development

You may want to limit yourself to Selby! Try reading the story and digesting the words. There is no "development". This is a wind turbine to create power for the farm only, not for the wider area, and therefore is designed to save the farm (and presumably) the farming partnership money. It has no wider benefits to the community surrounding it or the public at large.

Everyone has a piece of "nimbyism" (hate the word) in them and I feel for the residents objecting to this. It's one thing having a loss of view and outlook (which some will have little sypathy for). It's quite another to put up with the low frequency sound and modulation that the turbines cause, not to mention the flicker on sunny days which can induce seizures, especially in photo-sensitive epileptics. That's before you start on the radio/tv/broadband intereference that it will cause given it is direct line of a TV transmitter.

Don't believe me? Try googling the subject and looking at the research.

I think people need to get a grip and work on their facts before stating a 36m turbine will create too much noise for the area, the fact is you probably won't even be able to hear it from 300m away anyway....The majority say we want green energy and to 'save the planet' but god forbid someone wants to actually build anything close to us or anywhere else for that fact. People need to make their minds up once and for all that if green energy is the way forward then you need to bite the bullet and simply put up with these turbines. They aren't as noisy as some people seem to think they are, they don't make the areas windier and they could look a lot worse!! This turbine is not 'unethical' in anyway but a necessary step to a cleaner future.

AngryandFrustrated wrote:

myselby wrote:
As all NIMBYS know there is all ways somewhere better for the development to go. wist social housing its at the other end of the village- wind farms its the next district. we want the power we have to have the development

You may want to limit yourself to Selby! Try reading the story and digesting the words. There is no "development". This is a wind turbine to create power for the farm only, not for the wider area, and therefore is designed to save the farm (and presumably) the farming partnership money. It has no wider benefits to the community surrounding it or the public at large.

Everyone has a piece of "nimbyism" (hate the word) in them and I feel for the residents objecting to this. It's one thing having a loss of view and outlook (which some will have little sypathy for). It's quite another to put up with the low frequency sound and modulation that the turbines cause, not to mention the flicker on sunny days which can induce seizures, especially in photo-sensitive epileptics. That's before you start on the radio/tv/broadband intereference that it will cause given it is direct line of a TV transmitter.

Don't believe me? Try googling the subject and looking at the research.

Where are you getting these 'facts' from? This is media gumph at it's best! There are only a minute amount of cases at best that state any of what you've said is true! But then doesn't this sort of scare mongering exist for pretty much anything? It's because of crap like this that so many people are against these wind turbines in the first place!

I do agree with your earlier statement though that the wind turbine is to benefit the farm solely. Which it is. But should other farms and companies follow in it's footsteps more often then there would be a definite change in the amount of energy created from other less green sources, which is the overall point of these in the first place. It's also possible that the turbine could produce more than the farm will use and could therefore be sold back to the board or to the villagers themselves. Again a positive.

I think if people stopped focusing on small cases where problems have been caused by turbines and more on the positive then we wouldn't have to listen to this gumph being repeated time and time again.

Wonder the residents would prefer to have a gas fracking plant or a nuclear power station instead? Not seen the plans but surely a single relatively small turbine is preferable to a 'wind farm'

As someone once said if you want to keep your view buy it

newsmonkey wrote:

AngryandFrustrated wrote:

myselby wrote: As all NIMBYS know there is all ways somewhere better for the development to go. wist social housing its at the other end of the village- wind farms its the next district. we want the power we have to have the development

You may want to limit yourself to Selby! Try reading the story and digesting the words. There is no "development". This is a wind turbine to create power for the farm only, not for the wider area, and therefore is designed to save the farm (and presumably) the farming partnership money. It has no wider benefits to the community surrounding it or the public at large. Everyone has a piece of "nimbyism" (hate the word) in them and I feel for the residents objecting to this. It's one thing having a loss of view and outlook (which some will have little sypathy for). It's quite another to put up with the low frequency sound and modulation that the turbines cause, not to mention the flicker on sunny days which can induce seizures, especially in photo-sensitive epileptics. That's before you start on the radio/tv/broadband intereference that it will cause given it is direct line of a TV transmitter. Don't believe me? Try googling the subject and looking at the research.

Where are you getting these 'facts' from? This is media gumph at it's best! There are only a minute amount of cases at best that state any of what you've said is true! But then doesn't this sort of scare mongering exist for pretty much anything? It's because of crap like this that so many people are against these wind turbines in the first place! I do agree with your earlier statement though that the wind turbine is to benefit the farm solely. Which it is. But should other farms and companies follow in it's footsteps more often then there would be a definite change in the amount of energy created from other less green sources, which is the overall point of these in the first place. It's also possible that the turbine could produce more than the farm will use and could therefore be sold back to the board or to the villagers themselves. Again a positive. I think if people stopped focusing on small cases where problems have been caused by turbines and more on the positive then we wouldn't have to listen to this gumph being repeated time and time again.

If I get time this morning, I'll post some links, but I can assure you, it's not media hype. There have been several studies undertaken and indeed court cases where the research has been upheld by the courts and plans thrown out. Further, the industry's own guidelines about how close these turbines should be to residential properties appear to have been ignored. in this application. The company's own application gives a Db figure higher than the road noise from the A1237 and A59!

Finally, look up the application on the CofYC website - the Council's own EPU have objected to the plans at this stage because the noise impact and assessment study submitted with this application relates to a wind turbine, based in Devon (if I remember rightly) which is significantly smaller. They have not produced any data that is relevant to this application, and I wonder why. Perhaps because it would fall foul of noise legislation etc? Unless they do deal with the actual noise assessment in this area, citing the correct size turbine,, it is unlikely this scheme will get the go ahead in any event.

Just reading all this takes the wind out of my sails..........!

I would be interested in reading those. The problem lies that people object to these wind turbines with very little knowledge into the actual facts of how they work. It bugs me to read that people are against them due to people stating facts that are in fact untrue when (although not the best option for green energy) they are a step in the right direction. If everybody automatically rejected a plan due to something they read on one of these 'Against windfarm' websites then there is no hope at all. The majority of it is pure rubbish and does not apply to many of the turbines being built. Also a lot of the information to back up their side of the debate is provided from the older turbines. It's a shame that so many are against them for such trivial reasons.

If you do get the time I would be interested to see the links though. Thanks.

No one ever complains about the lines of pylons and ugly wires that stretch across the landscape and have done for decades. They spoil the view, cause a hum and the area around them is 'electrified' and causes health problems to vulnerable victims.

The wind turbine on the football field at the other side of the village has not caused any issues.

How is green energy 'unethical'? Do these people walk everywhere and shop only in the village? When they want to extend their already large houses or build another in the garden it's a different matter, profit comes before ethics. At least you can see planning applications online and read the letters of objection and know who is really behind them and how far removed they are from the site in question.

mummymetal wrote:
No one ever complains about the lines of pylons and ugly wires that stretch across the landscape and have done for decades. They spoil the view, cause a hum and the area around them is 'electrified' and causes health problems to vulnerable victims.

The wind turbine on the football field at the other side of the village has not caused any issues.

Because they were erected in the day before people had the chance to object.

I agree with turbines, if they are erected to generate power for a farm, then it can mean the difference between surviving and going bust.

AngryandFrustrated wrote:

newsmonkey wrote:

AngryandFrustrated wrote:

myselby wrote: As all NIMBYS know there is all ways somewhere better for the development to go. wist social housing its at the other end of the village- wind farms its the next district. we want the power we have to have the development

You may want to limit yourself to Selby! Try reading the story and digesting the words. There is no "development". This is a wind turbine to create power for the farm only, not for the wider area, and therefore is designed to save the farm (and presumably) the farming partnership money. It has no wider benefits to the community surrounding it or the public at large. Everyone has a piece of "nimbyism" (hate the word) in them and I feel for the residents objecting to this. It's one thing having a loss of view and outlook (which some will have little sypathy for). It's quite another to put up with the low frequency sound and modulation that the turbines cause, not to mention the flicker on sunny days which can induce seizures, especially in photo-sensitive epileptics. That's before you start on the radio/tv/broadband intereference that it will cause given it is direct line of a TV transmitter. Don't believe me? Try googling the subject and looking at the research.

Where are you getting these 'facts' from? This is media gumph at it's best! There are only a minute amount of cases at best that state any of what you've said is true! But then doesn't this sort of scare mongering exist for pretty much anything? It's because of crap like this that so many people are against these wind turbines in the first place! I do agree with your earlier statement though that the wind turbine is to benefit the farm solely. Which it is. But should other farms and companies follow in it's footsteps more often then there would be a definite change in the amount of energy created from other less green sources, which is the overall point of these in the first place. It's also possible that the turbine could produce more than the farm will use and could therefore be sold back to the board or to the villagers themselves. Again a positive. I think if people stopped focusing on small cases where problems have been caused by turbines and more on the positive then we wouldn't have to listen to this gumph being repeated time and time again.

If I get time this morning, I'll post some links, but I can assure you, it's not media hype. There have been several studies undertaken and indeed court cases where the research has been upheld by the courts and plans thrown out. Further, the industry's own guidelines about how close these turbines should be to residential properties appear to have been ignored. in this application. The company's own application gives a Db figure higher than the road noise from the A1237 and A59!

Finally, look up the application on the CofYC website - the Council's own EPU have objected to the plans at this stage because the noise impact and assessment study submitted with this application relates to a wind turbine, based in Devon (if I remember rightly) which is significantly smaller. They have not produced any data that is relevant to this application, and I wonder why. Perhaps because it would fall foul of noise legislation etc? Unless they do deal with the actual noise assessment in this area, citing the correct size turbine,, it is unlikely this scheme will get the go ahead in any event.

Wow! There is some spin mis-information flying around here! Let's try an inject some facts:

It's only for the Framer's benefit -

WRONG - The turbine will provide power for the turbine's owner, but will also feed all unused power into the national grid, benefiting the country by providing more renewable energy into the national grid. I'm not going to get into the debate over the suitability of wind power, but those are the facts.

There will be low frequency sound and amplitude modulation (AM) -

WRONG - There has indeed been a lot of research on this topic, all of it inconclusive. What we do know is that AM occurs due to a confluence of different circumstances including the type and height of turbine, the ground cover, type and topography and the distance of the listener from the turbine. It is less likely to occur for a small turbine like this and if at all normally at distances greater than 300m. currently there is no way to predict AM

There will be TV Interference -

Unlikely - I'm not going to go into the physics of it.

Every site has to be judged individually, as you cannot equate the issues one site may have had with any other site as all of the factors I detailed above can affect how noise propagates and no two sites are even close to being the same.

The Wind Turbine "Industry" has no "own guidelines" on how close a wind turbine should be to a residential property. There is national guidance which is stipulated by the Government that all Planning Authorities should adhere to. This is called ETSU-R-97, feel free to look it up or find it here.

http://www.dragonfly
-environmental.com/s
ervices/wind-turbine
-noise/

And before anyone points it out, yes there are those that think ETSU has it's problems and limitations, including me, but that is the guidance we have to use until the Government changes it.

How do you know what the noise level of the A59 is and how it fluctuates over a 24hr period? The answer is you don't so you cannot make that sweeping statement. Not withstanding this there are fixed lower limits for wind turbines in the ETSU document and it is likely that the proposal looks at those.

Finally the wind turbine being proposed is a very popular and successful one. The assessment done in Devon is to establish the noise levels for the type of turbine. Most turbines can be mounted on different height masts dependant on the length of their blades, and the test in devon is designed to provide noise levels independent of the mast height.

Whilst I appreciate some may not understand how this works, please accept that it does and the data will therefore be completely relevant.

* Farmers even!

What are they farming? And how much electicity are they using?

This wind turbine is only 8 metres shorter than the Yorkshire wheel near the railway museum. York has such a low flat skyline, so this probably affects more than just those living in Poppleton.

The Vale of York has the one of lowest average wind speeds in the UK. There are far more alternatives of renewable energy that are more appropriate given the low wind speeds and public objection. Solar panels are a much less intrusive alternative for the community and what about a hydroelectic generator in the forever flooding/flowing river Ouse?

This application appears to be originating from a company;contrary to the perception of a farmer with "green" concerns.

This is a Green Belt area with a conservation order; therefore I'd be very surprised if the permission is granted, when simlar proposals at Copmanthorpe got rejected last year.

Would be better if there were a dozen or so proposed so that the whole village could benefit directly from the cheap energy which will be created.

People don't half talk some nonsense about wind power, often repeating anti-wind power beliefs which are untrue. This page debunks ten of these myths: http://www.hyndburnw
indfarm.co.uk/mall/i
nfopageviewer.cfm/Hy
ndburnWindFarm/10Win
dFarmMyths

ChrisChittock wrote:

AngryandFrustrated wrote:

newsmonkey wrote:

AngryandFrustrated wrote:

myselby wrote: As all NIMBYS know there is all ways somewhere better for the development to go. wist social housing its at the other end of the village- wind farms its the next district. we want the power we have to have the development

You may want to limit yourself to Selby! Try reading the story and digesting the words. There is no "development". This is a wind turbine to create power for the farm only, not for the wider area, and therefore is designed to save the farm (and presumably) the farming partnership money. It has no wider benefits to the community surrounding it or the public at large. Everyone has a piece of "nimbyism" (hate the word) in them and I feel for the residents objecting to this. It's one thing having a loss of view and outlook (which some will have little sypathy for). It's quite another to put up with the low frequency sound and modulation that the turbines cause, not to mention the flicker on sunny days which can induce seizures, especially in photo-sensitive epileptics. That's before you start on the radio/tv/broadband intereference that it will cause given it is direct line of a TV transmitter. Don't believe me? Try googling the subject and looking at the research.

Where are you getting these 'facts' from? This is media gumph at it's best! There are only a minute amount of cases at best that state any of what you've said is true! But then doesn't this sort of scare mongering exist for pretty much anything? It's because of crap like this that so many people are against these wind turbines in the first place! I do agree with your earlier statement though that the wind turbine is to benefit the farm solely. Which it is. But should other farms and companies follow in it's footsteps more often then there would be a definite change in the amount of energy created from other less green sources, which is the overall point of these in the first place. It's also possible that the turbine could produce more than the farm will use and could therefore be sold back to the board or to the villagers themselves. Again a positive. I think if people stopped focusing on small cases where problems have been caused by turbines and more on the positive then we wouldn't have to listen to this gumph being repeated time and time again.

If I get time this morning, I'll post some links, but I can assure you, it's not media hype. There have been several studies undertaken and indeed court cases where the research has been upheld by the courts and plans thrown out. Further, the industry's own guidelines about how close these turbines should be to residential properties appear to have been ignored. in this application. The company's own application gives a Db figure higher than the road noise from the A1237 and A59! Finally, look up the application on the CofYC website - the Council's own EPU have objected to the plans at this stage because the noise impact and assessment study submitted with this application relates to a wind turbine, based in Devon (if I remember rightly) which is significantly smaller. They have not produced any data that is relevant to this application, and I wonder why. Perhaps because it would fall foul of noise legislation etc? Unless they do deal with the actual noise assessment in this area, citing the correct size turbine,, it is unlikely this scheme will get the go ahead in any event.

Wow! There is some spin mis-information flying around here! Let's try an inject some facts: It's only for the Framer's benefit - WRONG - The turbine will provide power for the turbine's owner, but will also feed all unused power into the national grid, benefiting the country by providing more renewable energy into the national grid. I'm not going to get into the debate over the suitability of wind power, but those are the facts. There will be low frequency sound and amplitude modulation (AM) - WRONG - There has indeed been a lot of research on this topic, all of it inconclusive. What we do know is that AM occurs due to a confluence of different circumstances including the type and height of turbine, the ground cover, type and topography and the distance of the listener from the turbine. It is less likely to occur for a small turbine like this and if at all normally at distances greater than 300m. currently there is no way to predict AM There will be TV Interference - Unlikely - I'm not going to go into the physics of it. Every site has to be judged individually, as you cannot equate the issues one site may have had with any other site as all of the factors I detailed above can affect how noise propagates and no two sites are even close to being the same. The Wind Turbine "Industry" has no "own guidelines" on how close a wind turbine should be to a residential property. There is national guidance which is stipulated by the Government that all Planning Authorities should adhere to. This is called ETSU-R-97, feel free to look it up or find it here. http://www.dragonfly -environmental.com/s ervices/wind-turbine -noise/ And before anyone points it out, yes there are those that think ETSU has it's problems and limitations, including me, but that is the guidance we have to use until the Government changes it. How do you know what the noise level of the A59 is and how it fluctuates over a 24hr period? The answer is you don't so you cannot make that sweeping statement. Not withstanding this there are fixed lower limits for wind turbines in the ETSU document and it is likely that the proposal looks at those. Finally the wind turbine being proposed is a very popular and successful one. The assessment done in Devon is to establish the noise levels for the type of turbine. Most turbines can be mounted on different height masts dependant on the length of their blades, and the test in devon is designed to provide noise levels independent of the mast height. Whilst I appreciate some may not understand how this works, please accept that it does and the data will therefore be completely relevant.

Wow - personal interest in this have you? You must have given your reference to feeding power back into the National Grid, something that isn't clear from the application which infers that the power is for the farm only. How is life at Dragonfly Acoustics btw?

Let's start with this - "The assessment done in Devon is to establish the noise levels for the type of turbine. Most turbines can be mounted on different height masts dependant on the length of their blades, and the test in devon is designed to provide noise levels independent of the mast height. Whilst I appreciate some may not understand how this works, please accept that it does and the data will therefore be completely relevant."

WRONG - I suggest you refer to the planning portal and in particular the CofYC own EPU report which is at odds with your impassioned posting.

"The Wind Turbine "Industry" has no "own guidelines" on how close a wind turbine should be to a residential property. There is national guidance which is stipulated by the Government that all Planning Authorities should adhere to. This is called ETSU-R-97, feel free to look it up or find it here.

http://www.dragonfly

-environmental.com/s

ervices/wind-turbine

-noise"

Point taken - I could have worded my comment better. However the point I was making is that The UK Noise Association and the Noise Abatement Society both recommend at least 1km between turbines and residential properties - some of the residents in this case live as little as 300m away. And yes, you are right. The current guidelines are somewhat inadequate, hence the reason there is bill currently before the House of Lords dealing with issues like this, and if passed, will make the minimum distance a legal requirement.

"How do you know what the noise level of the A59 is and how it fluctuates over a 24hr period? The answer is you don't so you cannot make that sweeping statement. Not withstanding this there are fixed lower limits for wind turbines in the ETSU document and it is likely that the proposal looks at those".

Average traffic noise (and the A59 and A1237 are both busy and average roads) measures in the region of 65db at source. I don't live in the area, but have friends that do and on busy days, the road noise is clearly audible from their house. According to the application, the turbine at source has a noise level of 90db. Doesn't take brain of Britain to work out that if road noise can be heard in the area, something that has a louder noise level at source will also be audible.

"WRONG - There has indeed been a lot of research on this topic, all of it inconclusive. What we do know is that AM occurs due to a confluence of different circumstances including the type and height of turbine, the ground cover, type and topography and the distance of the listener from the turbine. It is less likely to occur for a small turbine like this and if at all normally at distances greater than 300m. currently there is no way to predict AM".

So, because your view is that the research is inconclusive means that objectors are wrong? Have you ever lived or been in a property that has a wind turbine in close proximity? If you have, and you heard no noise then you must be deaf! Living in a property does not meen that you must sit inside with your double glazed doors and windows shut at all times. People have gardens. People have windows in houses that they sometimes open. When they do, noise can be heard. Are you seriously suggesting that wind turbines are silent?

AngryandFrustrated wrote:

ChrisChittock wrote:

AngryandFrustrated wrote:

newsmonkey wrote:

AngryandFrustrated wrote:

myselby wrote: As all NIMBYS know there is all ways somewhere better for the development to go. wist social housing its at the other end of the village- wind farms its the next district. we want the power we have to have the development

You may want to limit yourself to Selby! Try reading the story and digesting the words. There is no "development". This is a wind turbine to create power for the farm only, not for the wider area, and therefore is designed to save the farm (and presumably) the farming partnership money. It has no wider benefits to the community surrounding it or the public at large. Everyone has a piece of "nimbyism" (hate the word) in them and I feel for the residents objecting to this. It's one thing having a loss of view and outlook (which some will have little sypathy for). It's quite another to put up with the low frequency sound and modulation that the turbines cause, not to mention the flicker on sunny days which can induce seizures, especially in photo-sensitive epileptics. That's before you start on the radio/tv/broadband intereference that it will cause given it is direct line of a TV transmitter. Don't believe me? Try googling the subject and looking at the research.

Where are you getting these 'facts' from? This is media gumph at it's best! There are only a minute amount of cases at best that state any of what you've said is true! But then doesn't this sort of scare mongering exist for pretty much anything? It's because of crap like this that so many people are against these wind turbines in the first place! I do agree with your earlier statement though that the wind turbine is to benefit the farm solely. Which it is. But should other farms and companies follow in it's footsteps more often then there would be a definite change in the amount of energy created from other less green sources, which is the overall point of these in the first place. It's also possible that the turbine could produce more than the farm will use and could therefore be sold back to the board or to the villagers themselves. Again a positive. I think if people stopped focusing on small cases where problems have been caused by turbines and more on the positive then we wouldn't have to listen to this gumph being repeated time and time again.

If I get time this morning, I'll post some links, but I can assure you, it's not media hype. There have been several studies undertaken and indeed court cases where the research has been upheld by the courts and plans thrown out. Further, the industry's own guidelines about how close these turbines should be to residential properties appear to have been ignored. in this application. The company's own application gives a Db figure higher than the road noise from the A1237 and A59! Finally, look up the application on the CofYC website - the Council's own EPU have objected to the plans at this stage because the noise impact and assessment study submitted with this application relates to a wind turbine, based in Devon (if I remember rightly) which is significantly smaller. They have not produced any data that is relevant to this application, and I wonder why. Perhaps because it would fall foul of noise legislation etc? Unless they do deal with the actual noise assessment in this area, citing the correct size turbine,, it is unlikely this scheme will get the go ahead in any event.

Wow! There is some spin mis-information flying around here! Let's try an inject some facts: It's only for the Framer's benefit - WRONG - The turbine will provide power for the turbine's owner, but will also feed all unused power into the national grid, benefiting the country by providing more renewable energy into the national grid. I'm not going to get into the debate over the suitability of wind power, but those are the facts. There will be low frequency sound and amplitude modulation (AM) - WRONG - There has indeed been a lot of research on this topic, all of it inconclusive. What we do know is that AM occurs due to a confluence of different circumstances including the type and height of turbine, the ground cover, type and topography and the distance of the listener from the turbine. It is less likely to occur for a small turbine like this and if at all normally at distances greater than 300m. currently there is no way to predict AM There will be TV Interference - Unlikely - I'm not going to go into the physics of it. Every site has to be judged individually, as you cannot equate the issues one site may have had with any other site as all of the factors I detailed above can affect how noise propagates and no two sites are even close to being the same. The Wind Turbine "Industry" has no "own guidelines" on how close a wind turbine should be to a residential property. There is national guidance which is stipulated by the Government that all Planning Authorities should adhere to. This is called ETSU-R-97, feel free to look it up or find it here. http://www.dragonfly -environmental.com/s ervices/wind-turbine -noise/ And before anyone points it out, yes there are those that think ETSU has it's problems and limitations, including me, but that is the guidance we have to use until the Government changes it. How do you know what the noise level of the A59 is and how it fluctuates over a 24hr period? The answer is you don't so you cannot make that sweeping statement. Not withstanding this there are fixed lower limits for wind turbines in the ETSU document and it is likely that the proposal looks at those. Finally the wind turbine being proposed is a very popular and successful one. The assessment done in Devon is to establish the noise levels for the type of turbine. Most turbines can be mounted on different height masts dependant on the length of their blades, and the test in devon is designed to provide noise levels independent of the mast height. Whilst I appreciate some may not understand how this works, please accept that it does and the data will therefore be completely relevant.

Wow - personal interest in this have you? You must have given your reference to feeding power back into the National Grid, something that isn't clear from the application which infers that the power is for the farm only. How is life at Dragonfly Acoustics btw?

Let's start with this - "The assessment done in Devon is to establish the noise levels for the type of turbine. Most turbines can be mounted on different height masts dependant on the length of their blades, and the test in devon is designed to provide noise levels independent of the mast height. Whilst I appreciate some may not understand how this works, please accept that it does and the data will therefore be completely relevant."

WRONG - I suggest you refer to the planning portal and in particular the CofYC own EPU report which is at odds with your impassioned posting.

"The Wind Turbine "Industry" has no "own guidelines" on how close a wind turbine should be to a residential property. There is national guidance which is stipulated by the Government that all Planning Authorities should adhere to. This is called ETSU-R-97, feel free to look it up or find it here.

http://www.dragonfly


-environmental.com/s


ervices/wind-turbine


-noise"

Point taken - I could have worded my comment better. However the point I was making is that The UK Noise Association and the Noise Abatement Society both recommend at least 1km between turbines and residential properties - some of the residents in this case live as little as 300m away. And yes, you are right. The current guidelines are somewhat inadequate, hence the reason there is bill currently before the House of Lords dealing with issues like this, and if passed, will make the minimum distance a legal requirement.

"How do you know what the noise level of the A59 is and how it fluctuates over a 24hr period? The answer is you don't so you cannot make that sweeping statement. Not withstanding this there are fixed lower limits for wind turbines in the ETSU document and it is likely that the proposal looks at those".

Average traffic noise (and the A59 and A1237 are both busy and average roads) measures in the region of 65db at source. I don't live in the area, but have friends that do and on busy days, the road noise is clearly audible from their house. According to the application, the turbine at source has a noise level of 90db. Doesn't take brain of Britain to work out that if road noise can be heard in the area, something that has a louder noise level at source will also be audible.

"WRONG - There has indeed been a lot of research on this topic, all of it inconclusive. What we do know is that AM occurs due to a confluence of different circumstances including the type and height of turbine, the ground cover, type and topography and the distance of the listener from the turbine. It is less likely to occur for a small turbine like this and if at all normally at distances greater than 300m. currently there is no way to predict AM".

So, because your view is that the research is inconclusive means that objectors are wrong? Have you ever lived or been in a property that has a wind turbine in close proximity? If you have, and you heard no noise then you must be deaf! Living in a property does not meen that you must sit inside with your double glazed doors and windows shut at all times. People have gardens. People have windows in houses that they sometimes open. When they do, noise can be heard. Are you seriously suggesting that wind turbines are silent?

For starters I have no interest in the Turbine at all, however I am an independent expert in noise and I am very experienced in assessing the noise of wind turbines.

It's very good thank you.

I have referred to the planning portal and you have misunderstood the comments made by the EHO. The EHO is asking for additional information to address the specifics of propagation at this site. That would still utilise the Hayes Mckenzie report, but adding additional information. My posting wasn't impassioned simply trying to point out that just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's wrong. And it is fair to say it is a dangerous assumption to assume EPU teams don't get things very wrong. Although on this occasion, they haven't, it's the interpretation you have put on their comments.

If average noise levels "at source" as you put it are 65dB(A) for the A59 (this probably isn't a million miles off around 5m from the edge of the carriageway). Noise propagates following an inverse geometric progression so the noise. The 90dB value is you quote is at 1m from the turbine hub. Around 300m away from the turbine the noise level it generates will be 40dB or less. At least 25dB below the 65dB generated by the road. Which would be inaudible. That said the road won't produce a noise level of 65dB(A) all day and night so the comparison is a bit pointless anyway. If you want to understand the noise criteria, I suggest you read through ETSU.

You don't seem to understand what Low frequency noise is in relation to a wind turbine. Wind turbines swish and hum, the effect of low frequency am noise is when a "new" sound is caused by the interaction of the blades at frequencies of just a few hertz. You said it "will occur", I'm saying it may, but it is unlikely. As for the opinion on the inconclusive nature of the research, that is not just an opinion of mine, but one of my industry which is independent of the wind turbine industry.

The bill before the house of Lords is not going to progress as it doesn't have government support and it contradicts other legislation. My personal feeling is that it would be foolish to set a fixed distance as it is a blunt tool compared to properly assessing the noise impact of a turbine and will create a false sense of security

All wind turbine assessments are conducted assessing outside areas to ensure that the amenity of these areas are protected.

You have to appreciate that the current guidance doesn't require turbines to be silent, it strikes a balance between noise levels and the need to develop renewable energy resources. That is a political discussion I'm not here to have, I simply wanted to make sure people properly understood the issue of noise.

Enough hot air around to keep this one turning for ages......

If wind power and fracking are not wanted in peoples back yards, what do they suggest they use to power their homes in the long term? Coal. Gas. Nuclear? If so, how long is this viable and at what cost?

AngryandFrustrated wrote:

myselby wrote:
As all NIMBYS know there is all ways somewhere better for the development to go. wist social housing its at the other end of the village- wind farms its the next district. we want the power we have to have the development

You may want to limit yourself to Selby! Try reading the story and digesting the words. There is no "development". This is a wind turbine to create power for the farm only, not for the wider area, and therefore is designed to save the farm (and presumably) the farming partnership money. It has no wider benefits to the community surrounding it or the public at large.

Everyone has a piece of "nimbyism" (hate the word) in them and I feel for the residents objecting to this. It's one thing having a loss of view and outlook (which some will have little sypathy for). It's quite another to put up with the low frequency sound and modulation that the turbines cause, not to mention the flicker on sunny days which can induce seizures, especially in photo-sensitive epileptics. That's before you start on the radio/tv/broadband intereference that it will cause given it is direct line of a TV transmitter.

Don't believe me? Try googling the subject and looking at the research.

I wish Joe public would get upset about the unethical, unnatural and unsustainable factory farming going on on their doorsteps rather than a bleeding wind turbine.

But then I suppose if you can't see the animals you don't give a flying :(

Off Shore Wind farms - partially good.
Feed in to the grid from a local source - pretty good.

problems with wind farms - questionable mining techniques, shipment of products, & creation of required concrete - environmentally damaging; they also don't (always) provide power into the grid when industry needs it (e.g. Industry needs substantial amounts of power regardless of whether the wind blows or not). Oh, and they look like a bit of an eyesore. (Actually there's more than this as issues with it that are not just NIMBY but I'll leave that out.

But there's more options than oil / gas / fracking. Unless people have missed the last few years, Solar PV and Solar hot water heating are actually a cheaper and longer lasting option for feed in tariff stuff, and there's probably grants for farmers too if they wanted it. We're talking 25+ Years on these options. Also they generate electricity when the sun shines, which also happens to be when Industry needs power the most, and you're not at home to use that power first.

+ the cost of installation and return on investment is better than a wind farm... Or one solitary windmill.

However, life is this: We're reliant on power which does need to be generated from many sources, including Nuclear, Solar, Oil / gas / coal & even wind.

So put them all over Poppleton. Give the people something really to whine about. Maybe all around the P&R carpark as well :)

(PS that last bit is tongue in cheek in case you missed that).