OAP falls down stairs of bus on to pregnant woman

6:57am Saturday 15th December 2012 in News Photograph of the Author By Haydn Lewis, haydn.lewis@thepress.co.uk

Ray Vince, and Christine Young Ray Vince, and Christine Young

A PENSIONER fell backwards down the stairs of a York bus and landed on a heavily pregnant woman.

Strangers Ray Vince, 76, and Christine Young both got on the number one First bus outside the Theatre Royal in York and were among a group still standing when the bus pulled away.

Mr Vince, of Bramham Grove, Chapelfields, who is profoundly deaf, had reached the top of the stairs and fell backwards on to Mrs Young who is seven-months pregnant and took much of the force of the fall.

Mrs Young and her unborn baby were unharmed, but Mr Vince suffered a head cut.

Mrs Young, 30, of Burnsall Drive, Acomb, said: “As the bus left I hadn’t had chance to sit down. The next thing I know Ray was on top of me.

“He didn’t hurt my bump, but I hurt my neck and the bus driver was in that much shock he didn’t know what to do.

“Another passenger helped me to put Ray on to a seat. He had cut his head open and was bleeding badly and he was having difficulty breathing, which made me think he might have broken a rib or something.”

Mrs Young phoned an ambulance and paramedics took Mr Vince to York Hospital. Mrs Young, who is married to Scott and has a daughter, Holly, eight, was at the hospital later the same day for a routine appointment and the pair bumped into each other after Mr Vince had had his head wound treated.

Mr Vince and his wife Margaret, 73, wrote to The Press to express their thanks to Mrs Young, and the pair were reunited at our offices in Walmgate.

Mr Vince, who was an estate worker at Cornbury Park in Oxfordshire before he retired, said he was so pleased to be able to thank Mrs Young again in person.

Mrs Vince said: “We are both just so indebted to Christine because she was such a kind and caring person to an elderly man, especially as we live in an age now where people are so busy and quite often don’t have the time for the people they know let alone a total stranger.”

Mrs Young, a senior care officer in a residential home, said she had reported the incident to First.

A spokesman for First York said: “We have received a complaint from Mrs Young about this incident and as a result have carried out a full and detailed investigation into this matter. This includes interviewing the driver and looking at all available CCTV footage.

"We would like to apologise to both Mrs Young and Mr Vince for this incident as passengers should be given sufficient time to get to their seats before a bus sets off.

"As a company, First will look to learn lessons and will be reaffirming its safety messages to its drivers to ensure that we continue to improve our passenger safety record."

Comments(45)

postie28 says...
10:23am Sat 15 Dec 12

i'm amazed this type of accident doesn't happen more regularly. bus drivers very rarely wait for boarding passengers to take their seats . does anyone know when this incident took place ? as only yesterday i boarded 3 buses during the day and the bus moved off long before i had chance to sit down. so much for first reaffirming its safety messages.

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bob the builder says...
11:22am Sat 15 Dec 12

Perhaps First and the council should see this as a wake up call, next time it could be a corporate manslaughter charge. They only pay attention to customer complaints when they reach the Press.

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Boadicea says...
11:52am Sat 15 Dec 12

Buses almost always move away as soon as the last person has their ticket, giving them no time to get to their seat.

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CHISSY1 says...
12:44pm Sat 15 Dec 12

"Well at least they were not seriously hurt,which is the most important part of this story".

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pejo says...
12:53pm Sat 15 Dec 12

Pleased that everybody is fine. My hubby a Transdev driver always waits for folk to get sat down and his passengers always thank him for it.

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Blythespirit says...
12:57pm Sat 15 Dec 12

Thank goodness nobody was seriously injured. It is surprising there are not more accidents like this. When I get on the bus with my four year old child, the drivers hardly ever wait until we have got in our seat and my daughter ends up getting thrown about all over the place. First need to have a serious talk with all their drivers.

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Stevie D says...
2:16pm Sat 15 Dec 12

A lot of the problem is that there are so few seats within easy reach of the doors, meaning that people who may be less steady on their feet have further to go to sit down – especially if the seats nearest the door have already been taken by more mobile people.

On double-deckers I always go upstairs, to leave the downstairs seats free for those who need easier access, but on a lot of single-deckers it's only the seats near the front that have enough legroom for me.

I hear what people say about drivers needing to wait for people to sit down, but there are two sides to that story. I've been on a bus recently that ran nearly 10 minutes late because at every stop the driver waited til everyone was sitting comfortably before pulling away. If drivers use a bit of common sense (ie look at the people who got on last, do they look infirm or steady on their feet?) and pull away gently, that should avoid people being thrown around but without holding the journey up too much.

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offa says...
2:18pm Sat 15 Dec 12

There was a superb driver on TransDev, Mark Bond, who refused to move until everyone was seated and , in all fairness, I've experienced this courtesy on First buses as well.

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24.2.1969bestcitygoalever... says...
3:21pm Sat 15 Dec 12

'Years ago' as a kid in York while standing in a bus, I remember it braking suddenly, knocking me off my feet onto my 'besatcheled' back and I slid the whole length of a cold slushy bus aisle on my back to the front of the bus .... There was little sympathy abroad in those days for such events from fellow school friends or anyone else for that matter!

(Best City goal ever.. Tommy Spratt of course...!!!)

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Guy Fawkes says...
3:26pm Sat 15 Dec 12

This accident exposes the ridiculousness whereby you are required by law to be seated and belted in whenever you are inside a car (or a passenger aircraft during high risk phases of the flight), but not in buses or trains. It's totally irrational. If it is considered such a high risk to be in a car without a seat belt that you can justify passing a law forcing people to wear them, why not in a bus? After all, you can potentially be thrown a lot further in bus than you could in the front seat of a car.

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AMAJET says...
3:28pm Sat 15 Dec 12

What really hacks me off about buses is that they indicate to pull out whilst there are still passengers waiting to board, us numpty drivers that sit there waiting for it are overtaken by the less patient to the point where last week i saw a bus force a car onto the other side of the road when it pulled out without looking, then raced it to the lights instead of slowing to let it in. MIRROR, SIGNAL AND WHEN ALL CLEAR, MANOUVRE FIRST YORK!!!

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York1900 says...
4:02pm Sat 15 Dec 12

As long as bus timetables are so tight on timings this will all ways be a problem
First do not seem to be able to work out that if a late bus and a on time bus that they put all the passages who are going to the terminus on the late bus and it goes none stop to the Terminus to catch up time
it would take a lot off the drivers trying to kep to a timetable

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Gyspsy Power says...
4:22pm Sat 15 Dec 12

Fist York buses never ever wait for passengers to sit down before pulling off. Never once have I seen any driver do it. But First York are an appalling company anyway with some of the rudest staff I have ever come across.

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Paul Meoff says...
4:28pm Sat 15 Dec 12

At least it was a soft landing and no damage done.

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only human says...
4:39pm Sat 15 Dec 12

The problem with enforcing a no pulling away until all passengers are seated would mean the end of those weird overhead hanging loops for those unable to get a seat at peak times.personally i am amazed that in these times of risk assessments and extortionate insurance premiums thatthe practice of standing inaisles on overcrowded publuc transpor hasnt been banned.we dont pay less fare to stand and we are at greater risk of injury..

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Viper_7 says...
5:39pm Sat 15 Dec 12

AMAJET wrote:
What really hacks me off about buses is that they indicate to pull out whilst there are still passengers waiting to board, us numpty drivers that sit there waiting for it are overtaken by the less patient to the point where last week i saw a bus force a car onto the other side of the road when it pulled out without looking, then raced it to the lights instead of slowing to let it in. MIRROR, SIGNAL AND WHEN ALL CLEAR, MANOUVRE FIRST YORK!!!
Numpty drivers? It's a requirement as per the highway code to give way to busses. It's the car who should give way to the bus, not the other way around.

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ozo_born_and_bred says...
6:07pm Sat 15 Dec 12

Viper_7 wrote:
AMAJET wrote:
What really hacks me off about buses is that they indicate to pull out whilst there are still passengers waiting to board, us numpty drivers that sit there waiting for it are overtaken by the less patient to the point where last week i saw a bus force a car onto the other side of the road when it pulled out without looking, then raced it to the lights instead of slowing to let it in. MIRROR, SIGNAL AND WHEN ALL CLEAR, MANOUVRE FIRST YORK!!!
Numpty drivers? It's a requirement as per the highway code to give way to busses. It's the car who should give way to the bus, not the other way around.
Quite right Viper...

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ozo_born_and_bred says...
6:09pm Sat 15 Dec 12

Gyspsy Power wrote:
Fist York buses never ever wait for passengers to sit down before pulling off. Never once have I seen any driver do it. But First York are an appalling company anyway with some of the rudest staff I have ever come across.
And how do treat the staff....i bet you're one of the most ignorant of passengers around?

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jusaying says...
6:47pm Sat 15 Dec 12

lets face it, no matter what the first bus driver does he or she will always be in the wrong. If they wait for every single person to board the bus, grab a paper, choose a seat that no one else is sat at then a little natter to someone they know then further down the line will be moaned at for being 10-15mins late, when people are trying to get to work. its a no win situation.

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TERRIER3 says...
7:51pm Sat 15 Dec 12

Gyspsy Power wrote:
Fist York buses never ever wait for passengers to sit down before pulling off. Never once have I seen any driver do it. But First York are an appalling company anyway with some of the rudest staff I have ever come across.
Garbage, lots of first buses I go on wait for you o sit down, your just another numpty moaning about buses when you never travel on them

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yorkborn66 says...
9:10pm Sat 15 Dec 12

I must be lucky, as I never have had a problem on York buses or the Coastliner.
Only a minority of bus drivers pulling off before people have sat down.
The only problem I have is the lack of buses, but that’s another story!
Pleased both are ok and hopefully lessons will be learnt in future .

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The Fat Geek says...
9:35pm Sat 15 Dec 12

Huge amounts of kudos to Mrs Young. Glad neither were hurt but blimey, a pregnant young lady getting floored? Her heart must have been in her mouth as she helped the guy to a seat. Well played, love, and happy to see you got a thank you.

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mickeytops says...
10:14pm Sat 15 Dec 12

As usual First are going to try and blame the driver. They are given to strict times to keep to by the Management of First as they always put profits before safety. They are not bothered about this and it will not be the last time this will happen. Shame on you First.

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was york now rotherham says...
10:50pm Sat 15 Dec 12

This prctace of drivers pulling off before pasengers have taken to seat is not unuseual in YORKshire. I use First Leeds bus twice a week,Ariva yorkshire twice a week (in leeds )Stagecoach yorkshire (south yorkshire and i have also used First south yorkshire and out of them all only Ariva drivers i have found wait for you to sit down and if a less abled body person gets on and a healthy person(no disability) is sat in a front seat they tend to move not like on other bus networks and i have also known where drivers have been pulled off bus routes and sent back to driver training school if they have caused an injury to a person and also have been removed fron that bus route they aught to start doing that in york and then drivers might learn to take more care.

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rob101 says...
11:43pm Sat 15 Dec 12

I was on a bus from haxby to york last year when a similar thing happened,though the passenger tried to get upstairs well after the bus had set off.Why cant drivers and passengers realise the dangers

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Magicman! says...
4:32am Sun 16 Dec 12

Standing on moving buses is always going to be risky/dangerous... and this is part of the reason the FTR was removed from the city, as it forced too many people to stand. Likewise in Manchester the new M5000 trams are having a handful more seats fitted as GMPTE have already received numerous complaints from too many people having to stand.

The idea of the driver analyzing the last passenger who has boarded, and rolling away gently at a relaxed pace until the person has sat down is probably the best solution to find a balance between passenger comfort and punctuality. If you look at end-to-end timings, most First York routes have at best a 5 minute turnaround time - and this can easily be eaten up by lots of passengers getting off at a certain stop, followed by (for example) after everyone else has got up two people with a young child then decided to stand up and the child takes their sweet time toddling down the aisle looking at everybody as they go by; or the time can be eaten up by a person buying a season ticket or asking for information about services. If services had more padding at major stops and termini it would give the drivers the ability to be a bit more relaxed.
Then there is the vehicles themselves... due to the Disability Descrimination Act all the First buses in York now have wheelchair bays and buggy spaces as far forward as they can be, which is just after the wheelarches (the arches themselves holding luggage racks) - but the problem here is that this space takes up what would be 4-6 seats on either side of the bus had it been a 1990's vehicle (as an example you can go on a ConnexionsBuses service, especially if the bus has a reg of P---VDW as this is the exact same type of bus that Rider York had in the mid 1990's, and you will see that those older buses have more seats further forward so people don't have to spend ages going further back just to find a seat. If you go back in time even further you had buses which had sideways bench seats right over the front nearside wheel arch. Compared to older buses, most modern buses now have superior acceleration, which also causes issues as this acceleration can force people backwards if they are standing - and this type of acceleration generally occurs if the driver is running a bit late and is trying to make up time....

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GBTYZ says...
11:27am Sun 16 Dec 12

First is one of the worst operators of public transport in the country it is run for the benifit of staff a management they dont give a dam about the passengers. Alexander (the boy blunder) should stop paying first any subsidies they will then leave the city and good riddance.

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tangwaynehall says...
11:51am Sun 16 Dec 12

Think a rethink maybe instead of having 6 buses together then none for an hour. They have two an hour on each route with conductors on that are timetabled slower but strict guarenteed timed the other 4 an hour could then just run as they already do

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aitch11 says...
5:51pm Sun 16 Dec 12

ozo_born_and_bred wrote:
Viper_7 wrote:
AMAJET wrote:
What really hacks me off about buses is that they indicate to pull out whilst there are still passengers waiting to board, us numpty drivers that sit there waiting for it are overtaken by the less patient to the point where last week i saw a bus force a car onto the other side of the road when it pulled out without looking, then raced it to the lights instead of slowing to let it in. MIRROR, SIGNAL AND WHEN ALL CLEAR, MANOUVRE FIRST YORK!!!
Numpty drivers? It's a requirement as per the highway code to give way to busses. It's the car who should give way to the bus, not the other way around.
Quite right Viper...
**** to bus drivers and taxi drivers and their bullying tactics,forcing their way into traffic,be it from the kerb or pulling out of a junction,parking on double yellows,random flashers on,that makes everything alright then! Set of tw*ts!! both of 'em

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pippauk says...
8:49pm Sun 16 Dec 12

sorry to say but this was bound to happen one day especially when they pack that many onto the buses and lots of passengers standing even right up to the drivers im so pleased they are both ok and just wish first york buses would follow health and safety guidelines then hopefully this wont happen again xxx

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daveyboy25 says...
9:01pm Sun 16 Dec 12

No one else wonder why this stupid man went upstairs in the first place. Im sure it was not the nearest seat

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Hollywood Star says...
12:24am Mon 17 Dec 12

Glad no-one was seriously hurt. Lessons to be learned here i think; wait for passengers to be seated before setting off and what disgusted me the most was how it was left for the poor pregnant lady and another passenger to deal with the injured gent. Surely the drier should have taken charge ?
Incidentally, are the first drivers first aud trained i wonder ?

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MadHaxMan says...
9:09am Mon 17 Dec 12

Dontyajustlove daveyboy25 and his endless fascist rants against any bus passenger who dares to be old, infirm, disabled, a bus-pass user of any age or status, female with kids etc, etc. I have no doubt he will be able to add most of the rest of the population to his hate-list one way or another.
I hope you have a wonderful, fun-filled Christmas.

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desmond tiblets says...
9:24am Mon 17 Dec 12

Happened to me the other week when stood up going down holgate road crashed into a women with large breasts head first.ive never been so embarrassed.driver just laughed

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hendom says...
9:44am Mon 17 Dec 12

If so many passengers are aware that the bus is likely to set off when they are still finding their seat they should use the handholds provided, and if they are infirm they shouldn't be going upstairs.
Bus drivers are not perfect, but they are lowly paid and in an impossible situation.

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Sillybillies says...
3:12pm Mon 17 Dec 12

Numpty drivers? It's a requirement as per the highway code to give way to busses. It's the car who should give way to the bus, not the other way around.

Only when safe, they don't have a right of way -
198: Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops.

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sophiemiller91 says...
9:19pm Mon 17 Dec 12

As someone who takes the bus to and from work I can say on good authority that while the drivers are usually friendly a few do spoil it for the rest.
Although to be fair I usually spend three times as long waiting for a bus as is timetabled and so am usually in a pretty bad mood by the time I actually get to speak to a driver!

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sjo1992 says...
11:44pm Mon 17 Dec 12

This does not surprise me in the slightest! After getting the bus to school every day for seven years, I have seen my fair share of people falling due to inconsiderate drivers pulling away without checking all their passengers, and in particular elderly ones, have managed to find a seat. I'm so pleased to have my car now, although buses still seem to cause a problem, because it seems not only do they not bother to check their passengers, they think they have right of way over every other vehicle on the road!

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sjo1992 says...
11:48pm Mon 17 Dec 12

hendom wrote:
If so many passengers are aware that the bus is likely to set off when they are still finding their seat they should use the handholds provided, and if they are infirm they shouldn't be going upstairs.
Bus drivers are not perfect, but they are lowly paid and in an impossible situation.
So if there are no seats downstairs, do the 'infirm' have to get off and wait for another bus that has? The amount a person is paid has nothing to do with the service they should provide, especially not when peoples safety is at risk.

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Magicman! says...
2:33am Tue 18 Dec 12

Sillybillies wrote:
Numpty drivers? It's a requirement as per the highway code to give way to busses. It's the car who should give way to the bus, not the other way around.

Only when safe, they don't have a right of way -
198: Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops.
This only applies if the bus stop is a laybe and therefore off the mainline traffic flow, so to speak. If the bus stop is in line with the road and the bus is still in the traffic lane when waiting, once it indicates to pull out any vehicles behind the bus MUST give way to it. Any vehicles already part way down the side of the bus once the bus starts to offside indicate still have right of way to continue past the bus.
If the bus is in a layby the driver can indicate to pull out but must wait until a car driver flashes to let the bus pull out - and considering the majority of car drivers don't have the patience to wait for anybody else (be it other cars, buses, bikes etc) then sometimes the buses do have to force their way out.

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Magicman! says...
2:34am Tue 18 Dec 12

desmond tiblets wrote:
Happened to me the other week when stood up going down holgate road crashed into a women with large breasts head first.ive never been so embarrassed.driver just laughed
Oh well, you got a soft landing! giggedy.

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Christine1982 says...
10:47am Wed 19 Dec 12

The bus was very full and ray went up stairs for a seat no one could for see what was going to happen and when i helping him after incident and waiting for ambulance all he was concerned about was me and my unborn baby!
Were all fine and it was lovely meeting up with ray again and the kind letter Margaret sent me to the press i hope they both have a lovely Christmas Xx

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Eric Style says...
11:50am Wed 19 Dec 12

This answers the question who gets offered a seat first. Injured pensioner, then pregnant woman

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baldiebiker says...
12:38am Sat 22 Dec 12

Oh my god this is awful did any one phone "claims direct", I feel a claim coming on. (other claim companies are available).

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daveyboy25 says...
5:05am Sat 22 Dec 12

Problem is oaps try and relive their youth and go upstairs, problem is over half struggle to get on the platform to start with, too many pensioners on buses to have any chance of running on time

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