Councillor Brian Watson’s fears for future of city centre

First published in News by

TOO many shops in central York are being turned into bars and restaurants, causing widespread local problems, it has been claimed.

Councillor and former Lord Mayor Brian Watson says city centre residents regularly endure litter, noise, abusive language and “other unsavoury acts”, and says flaws in the planning and licensing rules are hampering the council’s response.

He spoke out following last week’s decision by a planning committee to allow a new bar in Little Stonegate, at the back of the old Borders bookstore.

Coun Watson said: “The ‘Micklegate Run’ is rapidly being replaced by the ‘Swinegate Stagger’ and the planning system and current licensing rules are not allowing us to get a grip on the situation.

“Applicants threaten to walk away from a scheme if we won’t give them the opening hours they want and basically hold us to ransom.

“I am concerned that the core of the city is losing important retail space to licensed premises and that will change the face of the city centre for years to come”. He said hopes of tackling troublesome behaviour had “taken a step backward” and said: “Litter, noise, abusive language and on occasion other unsavoury acts are what city centre dwellers have to contend with on a regular basis and will push people out rather than make the centre an attractive place to live.

“The city centre must be a place where people can let their hair down and enjoy themselves, but changes of planning use that allow more bars and restaurants mean that antisocial behaviour problems will become more commonplace.”

He said city centre residents had to be considered as well as making the city attractive for visitors.

Gillian Cruddas, chief executive of tourism body Visit York, said: “We all need to work together to make York a vibrant, but safe and enjoyable place to live and visit. Issues of antisocial behaviour, while in the minority, are always of concern, though York is recognised as having one of the safest city centres in the country.”

The new bar in Little Stonegate was approved by councillors last week. In a written report, council planning officer Jonathan Kenyon said there was a concern that adding to the number of bars and restaurants in the area would increase late night disturbance, but said: “This is a city centre location and in this case the impact has to be weighed against the public benefit of bring the listed building back into use.”

Karen Waugh, manager of Kennedy’s bar in Little Stonegate, said: “We feel it’s over saturated in this area, there are already 14 bars with a capacity of more than 2,000 people, so adding another one in such a small historic area with a 300 plus capacity is ludicrous. We as a locally owned premises do our best to keep the area tidy and trouble-free – a multinational operation will not care about the local environment as we do. York needs more retail outlets not bars or it will become the next Blackpool.”

But Anita Adams, owner of The Golden Slipper in Goodramgate, accused Coun Watson of “hypocrisy”.

She said: “He has sat there all these years and allowed charity shops in the city – that’s changing the face of York. Now there’s a business, employing people – not taking on volunteers – and paying full rates. Why should he be up in arms over a bar? I have been asking what the long-term plan is for the city centre ever since licensing was in the hands of magistrates and I have heard nothing.”

Comments (56)

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10:10am Thu 13 Dec 12

meme says...

Complete rubbish... we are a tourist city and the wider the offerring the better
I suspect most of the city centre residents are people who frequebnt these bars... That's why they chose to live in the centre.. as I do
This is a mtter of policiing by police and council not the fact there are too many bars. York would be a worse place without them just as it would without al our hotels
lets face it york is far better off than most cities in this dire environment..Why? because it offers what visitors want a...nd old fashioned councillors who only probably visit an old style boozer and have no sense of economics should stay out of it
Complete rubbish... we are a tourist city and the wider the offerring the better I suspect most of the city centre residents are people who frequebnt these bars... That's why they chose to live in the centre.. as I do This is a mtter of policiing by police and council not the fact there are too many bars. York would be a worse place without them just as it would without al our hotels lets face it york is far better off than most cities in this dire environment..Why? because it offers what visitors want a...nd old fashioned councillors who only probably visit an old style boozer and have no sense of economics should stay out of it meme
  • Score: 0

10:15am Thu 13 Dec 12

mjs says...

I did the Micklegate Run for years but I have never tried the Swinegate Stagger!! now that could catch on.
I did the Micklegate Run for years but I have never tried the Swinegate Stagger!! now that could catch on. mjs
  • Score: 0

10:27am Thu 13 Dec 12

capt spaulding says...

And dont forget the Guildhall Swagger.
And dont forget the Guildhall Swagger. capt spaulding
  • Score: 0

10:43am Thu 13 Dec 12

roskoboskovic says...

go and live in the country you miserable bugger.if anyone choosing city centre living expects peace and quiet then they re going to be disappointed.
go and live in the country you miserable bugger.if anyone choosing city centre living expects peace and quiet then they re going to be disappointed. roskoboskovic
  • Score: 0

10:43am Thu 13 Dec 12

Ignatius Lumpopo says...

The problem isn't too many bars: it's not enough good ones.
The problem isn't too many bars: it's not enough good ones. Ignatius Lumpopo
  • Score: 0

10:44am Thu 13 Dec 12

Whistlejacket says...

Other major tourist cities around Europe seem to cope with the night-time economy much better than we do.
They do this by ensuring that the streets are policed and cleaned 24 hours a day.
If you go out after midnight in Barcelona's Ramblas, Dublin's Temple Bar or the centres of Kracow or Tallinn, you are rarely out of sight of a street cleaning team or a couple of police officers.
York wants to be in the same league as these World Heritage cities, but doesn't want to pay the price.
Other major tourist cities around Europe seem to cope with the night-time economy much better than we do. They do this by ensuring that the streets are policed and cleaned 24 hours a day. If you go out after midnight in Barcelona's Ramblas, Dublin's Temple Bar or the centres of Kracow or Tallinn, you are rarely out of sight of a street cleaning team or a couple of police officers. York wants to be in the same league as these World Heritage cities, but doesn't want to pay the price. Whistlejacket
  • Score: 0

10:54am Thu 13 Dec 12

keepitshut says...

Whistlejacket wrote:
Other major tourist cities around Europe seem to cope with the night-time economy much better than we do. They do this by ensuring that the streets are policed and cleaned 24 hours a day. If you go out after midnight in Barcelona's Ramblas, Dublin's Temple Bar or the centres of Kracow or Tallinn, you are rarely out of sight of a street cleaning team or a couple of police officers. York wants to be in the same league as these World Heritage cities, but doesn't want to pay the price.
100% Spot on!
[quote][p][bold]Whistlejacket[/bold] wrote: Other major tourist cities around Europe seem to cope with the night-time economy much better than we do. They do this by ensuring that the streets are policed and cleaned 24 hours a day. If you go out after midnight in Barcelona's Ramblas, Dublin's Temple Bar or the centres of Kracow or Tallinn, you are rarely out of sight of a street cleaning team or a couple of police officers. York wants to be in the same league as these World Heritage cities, but doesn't want to pay the price.[/p][/quote]100% Spot on! keepitshut
  • Score: 0

12:25pm Thu 13 Dec 12

nasrudin says...

Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship.

The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk...

I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.
Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship. The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk... I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture. nasrudin
  • Score: 0

12:28pm Thu 13 Dec 12

south bronx red 2 says...

The argument "we are a tourist city" trumps all. Does it ?
After confronting someone lashing up BHS doors on a saturday night 8.00pm , only to be told to go away with a load of f-ing and jeffing by someone with a broad north east accent.
Or attempting to get off a late train from London to be met by a bunch of drunken morons heading north.
Tells me this City has a problem it wishes to ignore.
Ive seen several instances of doormen of pubs just chuck the problem on the street at no cost to them.
Massive profits with no responcibility.
I would suggest if people are staggering or crawling and have visited more than 4 pubs. They are drunk, and everyone serving them is breaking the law.
Nevermind the underage visitors to places like Rumors which resembles am after-school club.
The argument "we are a tourist city" trumps all. Does it ? After confronting someone lashing up BHS doors on a saturday night 8.00pm , only to be told to go away with a load of f-ing and jeffing by someone with a broad north east accent. Or attempting to get off a late train from London to be met by a bunch of drunken morons heading north. Tells me this City has a problem it wishes to ignore. Ive seen several instances of doormen of pubs just chuck the problem on the street at no cost to them. Massive profits with no responcibility. I would suggest if people are staggering or crawling and have visited more than 4 pubs. They are drunk, and everyone serving them is breaking the law. Nevermind the underage visitors to places like Rumors which resembles am after-school club. south bronx red 2
  • Score: 0

12:28pm Thu 13 Dec 12

The Great Buda says...

Wait does this mean they don't want tourists now?
Wait does this mean they don't want tourists now? The Great Buda
  • Score: 0

12:34pm Thu 13 Dec 12

gmc_1963 says...

keepitshut wrote:
Whistlejacket wrote: Other major tourist cities around Europe seem to cope with the night-time economy much better than we do. They do this by ensuring that the streets are policed and cleaned 24 hours a day. If you go out after midnight in Barcelona's Ramblas, Dublin's Temple Bar or the centres of Kracow or Tallinn, you are rarely out of sight of a street cleaning team or a couple of police officers. York wants to be in the same league as these World Heritage cities, but doesn't want to pay the price.
100% Spot on!
Agreed
[quote][p][bold]keepitshut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Whistlejacket[/bold] wrote: Other major tourist cities around Europe seem to cope with the night-time economy much better than we do. They do this by ensuring that the streets are policed and cleaned 24 hours a day. If you go out after midnight in Barcelona's Ramblas, Dublin's Temple Bar or the centres of Kracow or Tallinn, you are rarely out of sight of a street cleaning team or a couple of police officers. York wants to be in the same league as these World Heritage cities, but doesn't want to pay the price.[/p][/quote]100% Spot on![/p][/quote]Agreed gmc_1963
  • Score: 0

12:59pm Thu 13 Dec 12

TerryYork says...

The city at night as a no go area. It's full of pi**ed up idiots who can't handle their beer, with fights everywhere and spewing teenagers coming out of nightclubs.

They'll all die young, but we have to put up with their **** against our doorsteps and making an absolute racket at 3am.

Never any police to be seen, especially on race meetings, where the idiot ratio increases 10 fold.
The city at night as a no go area. It's full of pi**ed up idiots who can't handle their beer, with fights everywhere and spewing teenagers coming out of nightclubs. They'll all die young, but we have to put up with their **** against our doorsteps and making an absolute racket at 3am. Never any police to be seen, especially on race meetings, where the idiot ratio increases 10 fold. TerryYork
  • Score: 0

1:04pm Thu 13 Dec 12

jasonsaxo says...

I cannot believe the hypocrisy of the councillor!!! They have actively encouraged this change to our city centre by constantly putting up business rates to force the independents and now many nationals to close or move to out of town shopping centres. They have done their lucrative deals with property developers for planning permission to turn the centre into 1 and 2 bedroom apartments. People may not be aware that the council have almost total control of the spend of the residential rates as opposed to business rates which central government control. It is no wonder we have seen our city centre change over the last 20 years. They may have less money to spend - hence 220 job losses announced recently, but they can control where they spend it. Smacks of corruption to me. Just like the head of recycling at the council could not tell me how much revenues where being generated and where they were being spent. She promised to get back to me because she was about to go on holiday. That was over a year ago. I have still not heard from her. Again, corruption of the highest order.
I cannot believe the hypocrisy of the councillor!!! They have actively encouraged this change to our city centre by constantly putting up business rates to force the independents and now many nationals to close or move to out of town shopping centres. They have done their lucrative deals with property developers for planning permission to turn the centre into 1 and 2 bedroom apartments. People may not be aware that the council have almost total control of the spend of the residential rates as opposed to business rates which central government control. It is no wonder we have seen our city centre change over the last 20 years. They may have less money to spend - hence 220 job losses announced recently, but they can control where they spend it. Smacks of corruption to me. Just like the head of recycling at the council could not tell me how much revenues where being generated and where they were being spent. She promised to get back to me because she was about to go on holiday. That was over a year ago. I have still not heard from her. Again, corruption of the highest order. jasonsaxo
  • Score: 0

1:19pm Thu 13 Dec 12

PhilipInYork says...

I agree with Terry. A good start would be to close down the nightclubs. They serve no purpose other than to increase the problem.

Local pubs are better as the landlords tend to control how badly drunk patrons get.

Then ban supermarkets and such selling booze.

Responsible, moderate drinkers only, not least because it's a horrid death for those who abuse alcohol.
I agree with Terry. A good start would be to close down the nightclubs. They serve no purpose other than to increase the problem. Local pubs are better as the landlords tend to control how badly drunk patrons get. Then ban supermarkets and such selling booze. Responsible, moderate drinkers only, not least because it's a horrid death for those who abuse alcohol. PhilipInYork
  • Score: 0

1:21pm Thu 13 Dec 12

M.Lucas says...

south bronx red 2 wrote:
The argument "we are a tourist city" trumps all. Does it ?
After confronting someone lashing up BHS doors on a saturday night 8.00pm , only to be told to go away with a load of f-ing and jeffing by someone with a broad north east accent.
Or attempting to get off a late train from London to be met by a bunch of drunken morons heading north.
Tells me this City has a problem it wishes to ignore.
Ive seen several instances of doormen of pubs just chuck the problem on the street at no cost to them.
Massive profits with no responcibility.
I would suggest if people are staggering or crawling and have visited more than 4 pubs. They are drunk, and everyone serving them is breaking the law.
Nevermind the underage visitors to places like Rumors which resembles am after-school club.
Just a small point, legally doorstaff are only allowed to remove patrons from the property. They are not allowed to do anything once they have the troublemakers ejected onto the street except call the police.

This usually is met with a response of "we'll keep an eye on them on cctv" because the police are stretched too thin on busy nights (not the police's fault at all).

The cost to them if they do do anything on the street is usually prosecution. Even if they were allowed what would they do with them? Beat them up? Frog march them to the train/police station? (Small note, members of the public are only allowed to perform a citizens arrest for an indictable offence, swearing, antisocial behaviour and urinating aren't covered by that).

The current situation in York isn't extreme, yet. It will be unless the Council and other bodies come together and develop a long term strategy to manage drinking in the city centre.

The peopl who deserve to be criticised are those idiots who behave in such a way and the Council for failing to come up with a long term plane to deal with them. Not the Police, doorstaff or Bar owners.
[quote][p][bold]south bronx red 2[/bold] wrote: The argument "we are a tourist city" trumps all. Does it ? After confronting someone lashing up BHS doors on a saturday night 8.00pm , only to be told to go away with a load of f-ing and jeffing by someone with a broad north east accent. Or attempting to get off a late train from London to be met by a bunch of drunken morons heading north. Tells me this City has a problem it wishes to ignore. Ive seen several instances of doormen of pubs just chuck the problem on the street at no cost to them. Massive profits with no responcibility. I would suggest if people are staggering or crawling and have visited more than 4 pubs. They are drunk, and everyone serving them is breaking the law. Nevermind the underage visitors to places like Rumors which resembles am after-school club.[/p][/quote]Just a small point, legally doorstaff are only allowed to remove patrons from the property. They are not allowed to do anything once they have the troublemakers ejected onto the street except call the police. This usually is met with a response of "we'll keep an eye on them on cctv" because the police are stretched too thin on busy nights (not the police's fault at all). The cost to them if they do do anything on the street is usually prosecution. Even if they were allowed what would they do with them? Beat them up? Frog march them to the train/police station? (Small note, members of the public are only allowed to perform a citizens arrest for an indictable offence, swearing, antisocial behaviour and urinating aren't covered by that). The current situation in York isn't extreme, yet. It will be unless the Council and other bodies come together and develop a long term strategy to manage drinking in the city centre. The peopl who deserve to be criticised are those idiots who behave in such a way and the Council for failing to come up with a long term plane to deal with them. Not the Police, doorstaff or Bar owners. M.Lucas
  • Score: 0

1:21pm Thu 13 Dec 12

M.Lucas says...

Sorry for the length and spelling errors in my last post!
Sorry for the length and spelling errors in my last post! M.Lucas
  • Score: 0

1:42pm Thu 13 Dec 12

south bronx red 2 says...

Sorry, bars in this city are on a regular basis operating on an illegal basis, by serving people already drunk.
Read every court report on a city center brawl etc. "drunk".
Defence - "too much ale, very sorry".
If you keep allowing people to consume, the only ones to blame is those reaping the profit
Sorry, bars in this city are on a regular basis operating on an illegal basis, by serving people already drunk. Read every court report on a city center brawl etc. "drunk". Defence - "too much ale, very sorry". If you keep allowing people to consume, the only ones to blame is those reaping the profit south bronx red 2
  • Score: 0

1:57pm Thu 13 Dec 12

M.Lucas says...

south bronx red 2 wrote:
Sorry, bars in this city are on a regular basis operating on an illegal basis, by serving people already drunk.
Read every court report on a city center brawl etc. "drunk".
Defence - "too much ale, very sorry".
If you keep allowing people to consume, the only ones to blame is those reaping the profit
If that is the case then the council are responsible, through license officers, to perform on the spot checks and fines for barstaff and bars owners who are serving people already drunk (by the way staff aren't allowed to say "You're too drunk" just "I think you've had enough"!).

This they do in York, but occasionally and on a very small scale. It goes back to the point of a failure of a long term plan.

Another problem is that the person who is too drunk to serve is often in a large group. The individual is refused in one pub/bar so the group move on making sure that someone else buys the drinks in the next place.

Also a problem is pre-loading, people drinking large amounts of cheap booze from shups and supermarkets before leaving the house (or often in York's case, on a train). Someone can come into a pub seeming 'merry' but not drunk and so is served. However due to the number of drinks they've already had it 'hits' them all at once, making it seem the bar is responsible.

"If you keep allowing people to consume, the only ones to blame is those reaping the profit", and the individuals drinking it, and their friends who let them or ignore their state...

I agree with part of your point, but it's a much more wide-ranging problem than "It's all the bars fault".
[quote][p][bold]south bronx red 2[/bold] wrote: Sorry, bars in this city are on a regular basis operating on an illegal basis, by serving people already drunk. Read every court report on a city center brawl etc. "drunk". Defence - "too much ale, very sorry". If you keep allowing people to consume, the only ones to blame is those reaping the profit[/p][/quote]If that is the case then the council are responsible, through license officers, to perform on the spot checks and fines for barstaff and bars owners who are serving people already drunk (by the way staff aren't allowed to say "You're too drunk" just "I think you've had enough"!). This they do in York, but occasionally and on a very small scale. It goes back to the point of a failure of a long term plan. Another problem is that the person who is too drunk to serve is often in a large group. The individual is refused in one pub/bar so the group move on making sure that someone else buys the drinks in the next place. Also a problem is pre-loading, people drinking large amounts of cheap booze from shups and supermarkets before leaving the house (or often in York's case, on a train). Someone can come into a pub seeming 'merry' but not drunk and so is served. However due to the number of drinks they've already had it 'hits' them all at once, making it seem the bar is responsible. "If you keep allowing people to consume, the only ones to blame is those reaping the profit", and the individuals drinking it, and their friends who let them or ignore their state... I agree with part of your point, but it's a much more wide-ranging problem than "It's all the bars fault". M.Lucas
  • Score: 0

2:28pm Thu 13 Dec 12

redbluelion says...

i wish i could afford to go out drinking around town..but money is tight so i can't don't know where people get the cash to spend in these places..the prices they charge for for a drink...no-thanks id rather not drink..
i wish i could afford to go out drinking around town..but money is tight so i can't don't know where people get the cash to spend in these places..the prices they charge for for a drink...no-thanks id rather not drink.. redbluelion
  • Score: 0

4:25pm Thu 13 Dec 12

Dave Taylor says...

I would have more sympathy with Cllr Watson, if he, and his colleagues, hadn't voted to increase out-of town shopping to such a massive extent.

This will make it far more difficult attract new retail to the city centre and a drop in over £50million per annum for city centre retailers (Council consultants' figures) will send some into bankrupcy.

Cllr. Watson is therefore, to some extent, the architect of his own city's downfall.
I would have more sympathy with Cllr Watson, if he, and his colleagues, hadn't voted to increase out-of town shopping to such a massive extent. This will make it far more difficult attract new retail to the city centre and a drop in over £50million per annum for city centre retailers (Council consultants' figures) will send some into bankrupcy. Cllr. Watson is therefore, to some extent, the architect of his own city's downfall. Dave Taylor
  • Score: 0

4:31pm Thu 13 Dec 12

Woody G Mellor says...

redbluelion wrote:
i wish i could afford to go out drinking around town..but money is tight so i can't don't know where people get the cash to spend in these places..the prices they charge for for a drink...no-thanks id rather not drink..
You need to visit those nasty dumps in Rougier Street etc. On certain nights 20p a drink.

And people wonder why there is trouble.
[quote][p][bold]redbluelion[/bold] wrote: i wish i could afford to go out drinking around town..but money is tight so i can't don't know where people get the cash to spend in these places..the prices they charge for for a drink...no-thanks id rather not drink..[/p][/quote]You need to visit those nasty dumps in Rougier Street etc. On certain nights 20p a drink. And people wonder why there is trouble. Woody G Mellor
  • Score: 0

4:38pm Thu 13 Dec 12

meme says...

But the behaviour of the poeple is not the fault of bars... its our youth culture
If there were only 1 bar they would still behave as badly
The key is proper policing and control by authorities with proper punishments for people who misbehave
Other capital cities manage it ..why not York but dont kill the goose that lays yorks economic egg just because some old fashioned councillor who lives in an isolated world says they are wrong!
Fior God's sake when did anythng our councillors suggest actually improve our economic wellbeing?
But the behaviour of the poeple is not the fault of bars... its our youth culture If there were only 1 bar they would still behave as badly The key is proper policing and control by authorities with proper punishments for people who misbehave Other capital cities manage it ..why not York but dont kill the goose that lays yorks economic egg just because some old fashioned councillor who lives in an isolated world says they are wrong! Fior God's sake when did anythng our councillors suggest actually improve our economic wellbeing? meme
  • Score: 0

4:38pm Thu 13 Dec 12

ReginaldBiscuit says...

Many european cities have plenty of bars in them although the emphasis there is eating and drinking, not just drinking. There is an antil-social element as well but certainly not on the same scale as in the UK. City centres often become wild-west no-go areas on a weekend. The minority of morons who cause problems should receive stiffer punishments. Going into town on a weekend to have a drink should be seen as a privilege that can be easily revoked. If the minority of drinkers - and it is a minority - don't heed up then ban them, simple as. Racegoers, hen/stag parties, local troublemakers etc. If their behaviour is out of order, ban or bar them. It's basically a zero tolerance policy but I think it's a fair proposal.

Caveat: I presume it's the council who gives planning permission for bars and pubs so the councillor could be accused of hypocrisy. He is outlining a problem though that could do with addressing.
Many european cities have plenty of bars in them although the emphasis there is eating and drinking, not just drinking. There is an antil-social element as well but certainly not on the same scale as in the UK. City centres often become wild-west no-go areas on a weekend. The minority of morons who cause problems should receive stiffer punishments. Going into town on a weekend to have a drink should be seen as a privilege that can be easily revoked. If the minority of drinkers - and it is a minority - don't heed up then ban them, simple as. Racegoers, hen/stag parties, local troublemakers etc. If their behaviour is out of order, ban or bar them. It's basically a zero tolerance policy but I think it's a fair proposal. Caveat: I presume it's the council who gives planning permission for bars and pubs so the councillor could be accused of hypocrisy. He is outlining a problem though that could do with addressing. ReginaldBiscuit
  • Score: 0

5:28pm Thu 13 Dec 12

bob the builder says...

I regularly follow the blood trail on foot down Micklegate over Ouse Bridge on a weekend morning and have explained to tourists that it is not an icon trail to follow to historic sites. As usual those with something to lose try to pass York off as safe. It is the lack of night time and early morning policing, lack of arrests as it fills the cells and creates paperwork, knowledge by both police, offenders and victims that a small fine is all that happens for fighting all deter crime reporting. It's also time we elected the Mayor instead of the councillors passing it amongst themselves year after year.
I regularly follow the blood trail on foot down Micklegate over Ouse Bridge on a weekend morning and have explained to tourists that it is not an icon trail to follow to historic sites. As usual those with something to lose try to pass York off as safe. It is the lack of night time and early morning policing, lack of arrests as it fills the cells and creates paperwork, knowledge by both police, offenders and victims that a small fine is all that happens for fighting all deter crime reporting. It's also time we elected the Mayor instead of the councillors passing it amongst themselves year after year. bob the builder
  • Score: 0

6:52pm Thu 13 Dec 12

eeoodares says...

bob the builder wrote:
I regularly follow the blood trail on foot down Micklegate over Ouse Bridge on a weekend morning and have explained to tourists that it is not an icon trail to follow to historic sites. As usual those with something to lose try to pass York off as safe. It is the lack of night time and early morning policing, lack of arrests as it fills the cells and creates paperwork, knowledge by both police, offenders and victims that a small fine is all that happens for fighting all deter crime reporting. It's also time we elected the Mayor instead of the councillors passing it amongst themselves year after year.
Lived in York my entire life, the amount of fights I have seen is negligible mostly handbags at dawn. To say you REGULARLY follow blood trails is a lie and to suggest that you have to explain to people that these are not part of a tourist attraction...really!
?!
[quote][p][bold]bob the builder[/bold] wrote: I regularly follow the blood trail on foot down Micklegate over Ouse Bridge on a weekend morning and have explained to tourists that it is not an icon trail to follow to historic sites. As usual those with something to lose try to pass York off as safe. It is the lack of night time and early morning policing, lack of arrests as it fills the cells and creates paperwork, knowledge by both police, offenders and victims that a small fine is all that happens for fighting all deter crime reporting. It's also time we elected the Mayor instead of the councillors passing it amongst themselves year after year.[/p][/quote]Lived in York my entire life, the amount of fights I have seen is negligible mostly handbags at dawn. To say you REGULARLY follow blood trails is a lie and to suggest that you have to explain to people that these are not part of a tourist attraction...really! ?! eeoodares
  • Score: 0

6:55pm Thu 13 Dec 12

eeoodares says...

nasrudin wrote:
Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship.

The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk...

I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.
Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.
[quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship. The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk... I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.[/p][/quote]Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live. eeoodares
  • Score: 0

7:21pm Thu 13 Dec 12

nearlyman says...

The more the merrier I say ! ........When, last saturday one city centre bar charged £13 for three pints I realised that there was clearly not enough competition around, (No problem with minimum unit price here). That being said there were not too many people at the venue, as there are not on normal week days. Marie Celeste comes to mind! But hey, this is the result of the foolish aspiration of the council that a few years ago that thought we would embrace the continental cafe culture. My left buttock ! They are certainly not cafes and there is definately no culture! Just a resolute desire to milk the fickle youth of York of their hard earned cash whilst they can.
The more the merrier I say ! ........When, last saturday one city centre bar charged £13 for three pints I realised that there was clearly not enough competition around, (No problem with minimum unit price here). That being said there were not too many people at the venue, as there are not on normal week days. Marie Celeste comes to mind! But hey, this is the result of the foolish aspiration of the council that a few years ago that thought we would embrace the continental cafe culture. My left buttock ! They are certainly not cafes and there is definately no culture! Just a resolute desire to milk the fickle youth of York of their hard earned cash whilst they can. nearlyman
  • Score: 0

7:24pm Thu 13 Dec 12

Trustmeiknoweverything&every1 says...

TerryYork wrote:
The city at night as a no go area. It's full of pi**ed up idiots who can't handle their beer, with fights everywhere and spewing teenagers coming out of nightclubs.

They'll all die young, but we have to put up with their **** against our doorsteps and making an absolute racket at 3am.

Never any police to be seen, especially on race meetings, where the idiot ratio increases 10 fold.
Spot on! so from that you can guess what best job is in york yes you guessed dropping these fools off. Because thats all that seem's to be happening here people go town n get smashed, if there not doing that there smoking that stuff & driving round mcdonald's. or driving round picking scrap up in transit's like hackney crack head's
[quote][p][bold]TerryYork[/bold] wrote: The city at night as a no go area. It's full of pi**ed up idiots who can't handle their beer, with fights everywhere and spewing teenagers coming out of nightclubs. They'll all die young, but we have to put up with their **** against our doorsteps and making an absolute racket at 3am. Never any police to be seen, especially on race meetings, where the idiot ratio increases 10 fold.[/p][/quote]Spot on! so from that you can guess what best job is in york yes you guessed dropping these fools off. Because thats all that seem's to be happening here people go town n get smashed, if there not doing that there smoking that stuff & driving round mcdonald's. or driving round picking scrap up in transit's like hackney crack head's Trustmeiknoweverything&every1
  • Score: 0

7:43pm Thu 13 Dec 12

bar_wench says...

M.Lucas wrote:
south bronx red 2 wrote:
Sorry, bars in this city are on a regular basis operating on an illegal basis, by serving people already drunk.
Read every court report on a city center brawl etc. "drunk".
Defence - "too much ale, very sorry".
If you keep allowing people to consume, the only ones to blame is those reaping the profit
If that is the case then the council are responsible, through license officers, to perform on the spot checks and fines for barstaff and bars owners who are serving people already drunk (by the way staff aren't allowed to say "You're too drunk" just "I think you've had enough"!).

This they do in York, but occasionally and on a very small scale. It goes back to the point of a failure of a long term plan.

Another problem is that the person who is too drunk to serve is often in a large group. The individual is refused in one pub/bar so the group move on making sure that someone else buys the drinks in the next place.

Also a problem is pre-loading, people drinking large amounts of cheap booze from shups and supermarkets before leaving the house (or often in York's case, on a train). Someone can come into a pub seeming 'merry' but not drunk and so is served. However due to the number of drinks they've already had it 'hits' them all at once, making it seem the bar is responsible.

"If you keep allowing people to consume, the only ones to blame is those reaping the profit", and the individuals drinking it, and their friends who let them or ignore their state...

I agree with part of your point, but it's a much more wide-ranging problem than "It's all the bars fault".
As my name suggests I do and have worked in a lot of bars. On saturday I refused service to 8 people 2 of which were in massive groups and so I refused the entire group. None of them were locals. My point is that there are bar staff that follow the law but I have seen others break it mainly because they can't be bothered to deal with the aggro that comes after you refuse service or that don't want to upset management by refusing business.
[quote][p][bold]M.Lucas[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]south bronx red 2[/bold] wrote: Sorry, bars in this city are on a regular basis operating on an illegal basis, by serving people already drunk. Read every court report on a city center brawl etc. "drunk". Defence - "too much ale, very sorry". If you keep allowing people to consume, the only ones to blame is those reaping the profit[/p][/quote]If that is the case then the council are responsible, through license officers, to perform on the spot checks and fines for barstaff and bars owners who are serving people already drunk (by the way staff aren't allowed to say "You're too drunk" just "I think you've had enough"!). This they do in York, but occasionally and on a very small scale. It goes back to the point of a failure of a long term plan. Another problem is that the person who is too drunk to serve is often in a large group. The individual is refused in one pub/bar so the group move on making sure that someone else buys the drinks in the next place. Also a problem is pre-loading, people drinking large amounts of cheap booze from shups and supermarkets before leaving the house (or often in York's case, on a train). Someone can come into a pub seeming 'merry' but not drunk and so is served. However due to the number of drinks they've already had it 'hits' them all at once, making it seem the bar is responsible. "If you keep allowing people to consume, the only ones to blame is those reaping the profit", and the individuals drinking it, and their friends who let them or ignore their state... I agree with part of your point, but it's a much more wide-ranging problem than "It's all the bars fault".[/p][/quote]As my name suggests I do and have worked in a lot of bars. On saturday I refused service to 8 people 2 of which were in massive groups and so I refused the entire group. None of them were locals. My point is that there are bar staff that follow the law but I have seen others break it mainly because they can't be bothered to deal with the aggro that comes after you refuse service or that don't want to upset management by refusing business. bar_wench
  • Score: 0

11:46pm Thu 13 Dec 12

jgycfc says...

amusing to hear people think it's greedy landlords serving drunk people.
Also amusing that, yes technically you shouldn't serve drunk people. But I reckon the majority of the moaners above have been served while drunk, and didn't moan at the time.
equally amusing is if they were drunk and didn't get served, I suspect they were over-zealous in retort to said bar staff.

And it's the bar staff that serve the drunks, not the landlords, or, in reality the PubCo managers of the month...

It worked better when it was a judge, not the council, who made the decision. This change, and the PubCo dominance is a major cause.

People are also moaning about the price of supermarket booze. I hope that was tongue in cheek... If they're getting drunk at home from a supermarket 20p a can whatever then they're not on the street... Though more likely to cause the NHS problems later. Swings and roundabouts.

Now all go do your bit for the Big Society, but lots of cheap beer, get hideously drunk, go home. Repeat week after week. Get into loads of debt. Borrow lots more. Spend it on good expensive beer, get into even more debt. Take no responsibility for this action, and blame all your issues on someone or something else. And play nicely :)
amusing to hear people think it's greedy landlords serving drunk people. Also amusing that, yes technically you shouldn't serve drunk people. But I reckon the majority of the moaners above have been served while drunk, and didn't moan at the time. equally amusing is if they were drunk and didn't get served, I suspect they were over-zealous in retort to said bar staff. And it's the bar staff that serve the drunks, not the landlords, or, in reality the PubCo managers of the month... It worked better when it was a judge, not the council, who made the decision. This change, and the PubCo dominance is a major cause. People are also moaning about the price of supermarket booze. I hope that was tongue in cheek... If they're getting drunk at home from a supermarket 20p a can whatever then they're not on the street... Though more likely to cause the NHS problems later. Swings and roundabouts. Now all go do your bit for the Big Society, but lots of cheap beer, get hideously drunk, go home. Repeat week after week. Get into loads of debt. Borrow lots more. Spend it on good expensive beer, get into even more debt. Take no responsibility for this action, and blame all your issues on someone or something else. And play nicely :) jgycfc
  • Score: 0

8:19am Fri 14 Dec 12

nasrudin says...

eeoodares wrote:
nasrudin wrote:
Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship.

The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk...

I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.
Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.
If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is.
[quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship. The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk... I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.[/p][/quote]Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.[/p][/quote]If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is. nasrudin
  • Score: 0

8:46am Fri 14 Dec 12

eeoodares says...

nasrudin wrote:
eeoodares wrote:
nasrudin wrote:
Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship.

The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk...

I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.
Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.
If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is.
Well I believe you are wrong, as do the vast majority of visitors and the businesses and residents of York who rely on the money tourism brings into this city.
People like you who always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence are a sad bunch. I have spent some time in Barcelona, and if you think that York has problems where Barcelona has not I suggest you take your head out of your backside! In fact I challenge you to walk alone from the port to the head of the Ramblas at 4am whilst talking on your mobile...You would last about 10 minutes!
[quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship. The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk... I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.[/p][/quote]Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.[/p][/quote]If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is.[/p][/quote]Well I believe you are wrong, as do the vast majority of visitors and the businesses and residents of York who rely on the money tourism brings into this city. People like you who always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence are a sad bunch. I have spent some time in Barcelona, and if you think that York has problems where Barcelona has not I suggest you take your head out of your backside! In fact I challenge you to walk alone from the port to the head of the Ramblas at 4am whilst talking on your mobile...You would last about 10 minutes! eeoodares
  • Score: 0

9:10am Fri 14 Dec 12

M.Lucas says...

eeoodares wrote:
nasrudin wrote:
eeoodares wrote:
nasrudin wrote:
Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship.

The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk...

I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.
Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.
If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is.
Well I believe you are wrong, as do the vast majority of visitors and the businesses and residents of York who rely on the money tourism brings into this city.
People like you who always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence are a sad bunch. I have spent some time in Barcelona, and if you think that York has problems where Barcelona has not I suggest you take your head out of your backside! In fact I challenge you to walk alone from the port to the head of the Ramblas at 4am whilst talking on your mobile...You would last about 10 minutes!
This user may have a 'google problem'
[quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship. The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk... I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.[/p][/quote]Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.[/p][/quote]If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is.[/p][/quote]Well I believe you are wrong, as do the vast majority of visitors and the businesses and residents of York who rely on the money tourism brings into this city. People like you who always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence are a sad bunch. I have spent some time in Barcelona, and if you think that York has problems where Barcelona has not I suggest you take your head out of your backside! In fact I challenge you to walk alone from the port to the head of the Ramblas at 4am whilst talking on your mobile...You would last about 10 minutes![/p][/quote]This user may have a 'google problem' M.Lucas
  • Score: 0

9:40am Fri 14 Dec 12

inthesticks says...

jasonsaxo wrote:
I cannot believe the hypocrisy of the councillor!!! They have actively encouraged this change to our city centre by constantly putting up business rates to force the independents and now many nationals to close or move to out of town shopping centres. They have done their lucrative deals with property developers for planning permission to turn the centre into 1 and 2 bedroom apartments. People may not be aware that the council have almost total control of the spend of the residential rates as opposed to business rates which central government control. It is no wonder we have seen our city centre change over the last 20 years. They may have less money to spend - hence 220 job losses announced recently, but they can control where they spend it. Smacks of corruption to me. Just like the head of recycling at the council could not tell me how much revenues where being generated and where they were being spent. She promised to get back to me because she was about to go on holiday. That was over a year ago. I have still not heard from her. Again, corruption of the highest order.
Any info wanted from the council, put in a freedom of information request - they have to give you the info by law, within 20 working days. Check out the FOI Act website for details, or `what do they know?`.
[quote][p][bold]jasonsaxo[/bold] wrote: I cannot believe the hypocrisy of the councillor!!! They have actively encouraged this change to our city centre by constantly putting up business rates to force the independents and now many nationals to close or move to out of town shopping centres. They have done their lucrative deals with property developers for planning permission to turn the centre into 1 and 2 bedroom apartments. People may not be aware that the council have almost total control of the spend of the residential rates as opposed to business rates which central government control. It is no wonder we have seen our city centre change over the last 20 years. They may have less money to spend - hence 220 job losses announced recently, but they can control where they spend it. Smacks of corruption to me. Just like the head of recycling at the council could not tell me how much revenues where being generated and where they were being spent. She promised to get back to me because she was about to go on holiday. That was over a year ago. I have still not heard from her. Again, corruption of the highest order.[/p][/quote]Any info wanted from the council, put in a freedom of information request - they have to give you the info by law, within 20 working days. Check out the FOI Act website for details, or `what do they know?`. inthesticks
  • Score: 0

10:04am Fri 14 Dec 12

hikerman says...

YORK IS A NO GO AREA WITH ALL THE YOUNG MEN DRUNK AFTER TWO PINTS AND THE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE CITY CENTRE ARE ALWAYS MOANING ABOUT THE COUNCIL GET A LIFE MOST HAVE MOVED TO YORK FROM OTHER PLACES.
YORK IS A NO GO AREA WITH ALL THE YOUNG MEN DRUNK AFTER TWO PINTS AND THE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE CITY CENTRE ARE ALWAYS MOANING ABOUT THE COUNCIL GET A LIFE MOST HAVE MOVED TO YORK FROM OTHER PLACES. hikerman
  • Score: 0

10:10am Fri 14 Dec 12

anti-rant says...

eeoodares wrote:
nasrudin wrote:
eeoodares wrote:
nasrudin wrote:
Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship.

The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk...

I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.
Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.
If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is.
Well I believe you are wrong, as do the vast majority of visitors and the businesses and residents of York who rely on the money tourism brings into this city.
People like you who always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence are a sad bunch. I have spent some time in Barcelona, and if you think that York has problems where Barcelona has not I suggest you take your head out of your backside! In fact I challenge you to walk alone from the port to the head of the Ramblas at 4am whilst talking on your mobile...You would last about 10 minutes!
eeoodares, I think you are wide of the mark in regards to nasrudin. He seems fairly level headed and you sounding like a ranting loon.
[quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship. The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk... I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.[/p][/quote]Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.[/p][/quote]If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is.[/p][/quote]Well I believe you are wrong, as do the vast majority of visitors and the businesses and residents of York who rely on the money tourism brings into this city. People like you who always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence are a sad bunch. I have spent some time in Barcelona, and if you think that York has problems where Barcelona has not I suggest you take your head out of your backside! In fact I challenge you to walk alone from the port to the head of the Ramblas at 4am whilst talking on your mobile...You would last about 10 minutes![/p][/quote]eeoodares, I think you are wide of the mark in regards to nasrudin. He seems fairly level headed and you sounding like a ranting loon. anti-rant
  • Score: 0

12:14pm Fri 14 Dec 12

P3TER1 says...

hikerman wrote:
YORK IS A NO GO AREA WITH ALL THE YOUNG MEN DRUNK AFTER TWO PINTS AND THE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE CITY CENTRE ARE ALWAYS MOANING ABOUT THE COUNCIL GET A LIFE MOST HAVE MOVED TO YORK FROM OTHER PLACES.
Is there something wrong with your keyboard?
[quote][p][bold]hikerman[/bold] wrote: YORK IS A NO GO AREA WITH ALL THE YOUNG MEN DRUNK AFTER TWO PINTS AND THE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE CITY CENTRE ARE ALWAYS MOANING ABOUT THE COUNCIL GET A LIFE MOST HAVE MOVED TO YORK FROM OTHER PLACES.[/p][/quote]Is there something wrong with your keyboard? P3TER1
  • Score: 0

12:18pm Fri 14 Dec 12

meme says...

If councillors dont want more bars why do they always moan when a local pub in a street in say Bishopthorpe/Holgate
/etc wants to close?
its called a free market economy and econaomics
If councillors dont want more bars why do they always moan when a local pub in a street in say Bishopthorpe/Holgate /etc wants to close? its called a free market economy and econaomics meme
  • Score: 0

1:06pm Fri 14 Dec 12

HPSauce says...

For me its an issue of opening hours. If you go out at 8 for a couple of beers, its very easy to be tempted into staying for a couple more. Before you know it its midnight and gone and you've had too much.

It would be nice to educate our drinkers, young and old, about excess but lets face it, people have been getting drunk since alcohol was first discovered.

The only real way you can minimise drunkeness is to restrict opening hours and/or to put in place a pricing system whereby the night clubs and late opening bars are obliged to raise their prices by £1 after 11pm, thus reducing the attraction of drinking past this time.

You will never eradicate drunkness, but you can manage, plan and reduce it as much as possible.
For me its an issue of opening hours. If you go out at 8 for a couple of beers, its very easy to be tempted into staying for a couple more. Before you know it its midnight and gone and you've had too much. It would be nice to educate our drinkers, young and old, about excess but lets face it, people have been getting drunk since alcohol was first discovered. The only real way you can minimise drunkeness is to restrict opening hours and/or to put in place a pricing system whereby the night clubs and late opening bars are obliged to raise their prices by £1 after 11pm, thus reducing the attraction of drinking past this time. You will never eradicate drunkness, but you can manage, plan and reduce it as much as possible. HPSauce
  • Score: 0

1:58pm Fri 14 Dec 12

cityforthepremier says...

Dave Taylor wrote:
I would have more sympathy with Cllr Watson, if he, and his colleagues, hadn't voted to increase out-of town shopping to such a massive extent.

This will make it far more difficult attract new retail to the city centre and a drop in over £50million per annum for city centre retailers (Council consultants' figures) will send some into bankrupcy.

Cllr. Watson is therefore, to some extent, the architect of his own city's downfall.
There is more to the City of York than the City Centre and there are more York taxpayers on the outskirts of York than there are in the City Centre. I am happy to see job opportunities provided for people who live "out of town" rather than them being regarded as second class citizens despite paying for everything. The Council is supposed to represent ALL people in the City not just the vested interests in the City Centre, Cllr Taylor would do well to remember that.
[quote][p][bold]Dave Taylor[/bold] wrote: I would have more sympathy with Cllr Watson, if he, and his colleagues, hadn't voted to increase out-of town shopping to such a massive extent. This will make it far more difficult attract new retail to the city centre and a drop in over £50million per annum for city centre retailers (Council consultants' figures) will send some into bankrupcy. Cllr. Watson is therefore, to some extent, the architect of his own city's downfall.[/p][/quote]There is more to the City of York than the City Centre and there are more York taxpayers on the outskirts of York than there are in the City Centre. I am happy to see job opportunities provided for people who live "out of town" rather than them being regarded as second class citizens despite paying for everything. The Council is supposed to represent ALL people in the City not just the vested interests in the City Centre, Cllr Taylor would do well to remember that. cityforthepremier
  • Score: 0

3:46pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Theapplesarecoming says...

Any business can open and run in York it's relegated by supply and demand

Unfortunately because of all the crap the last govenment has reaped on people lives and the horrors that people have to face on a daily basis the only comfort that people have is to go out on the weekend and get so drunk they forget all about their lives for a few hours

Due to the Internet shopping and the beer culture that is being created the high street will be full of bars and chocolate shops / tourism rubbish in York in a few years!

Supply and demand - people have nothing better to do but come
And walk round York
Buying thing they don't need and the locals know York so all there is to do in general is get drunk on the weekend


I don't even drink or go into town anymore! Just trying to have a quiet life with My fiancee :)
Any business can open and run in York it's relegated by supply and demand Unfortunately because of all the crap the last govenment has reaped on people lives and the horrors that people have to face on a daily basis the only comfort that people have is to go out on the weekend and get so drunk they forget all about their lives for a few hours Due to the Internet shopping and the beer culture that is being created the high street will be full of bars and chocolate shops / tourism rubbish in York in a few years! Supply and demand - people have nothing better to do but come And walk round York Buying thing they don't need and the locals know York so all there is to do in general is get drunk on the weekend I don't even drink or go into town anymore! Just trying to have a quiet life with My fiancee :) Theapplesarecoming
  • Score: 0

4:16pm Fri 14 Dec 12

rogue84 says...

nowhere in york are drinks 20p by the way, complete ever exaggeration there.
i've lived in york all my life and the amount of fights i've seen in town I could add up on 2 hands - and we're talking a good 20 years of going out on fridays or saturdays.
this impression that people give that the whole of the city centre is drunken, fighting, vomiting youths is ridiculous. i agree there are always a set of mindless idiots, but every city in the UK on a saturday evening has this problem, not just us!
nowhere in york are drinks 20p by the way, complete ever exaggeration there. i've lived in york all my life and the amount of fights i've seen in town I could add up on 2 hands - and we're talking a good 20 years of going out on fridays or saturdays. this impression that people give that the whole of the city centre is drunken, fighting, vomiting youths is ridiculous. i agree there are always a set of mindless idiots, but every city in the UK on a saturday evening has this problem, not just us! rogue84
  • Score: 0

5:51pm Fri 14 Dec 12

M.Lucas says...

rogue84 wrote:
nowhere in york are drinks 20p by the way, complete ever exaggeration there.
i've lived in york all my life and the amount of fights i've seen in town I could add up on 2 hands - and we're talking a good 20 years of going out on fridays or saturdays.
this impression that people give that the whole of the city centre is drunken, fighting, vomiting youths is ridiculous. i agree there are always a set of mindless idiots, but every city in the UK on a saturday evening has this problem, not just us!
I think you should look at the statistics for violent crime in York and not rely on your own experience:

http://www.ukcrimest
ats.com/Neighbourhoo
d/North_Yorkshire_Po
lice/York_City

Figures out up to March 2012

Both the figures for anti-social behaviour and violent crimes plus the map relevant to the discussion.

The months are interesting (highest levels in summer months) too.
[quote][p][bold]rogue84[/bold] wrote: nowhere in york are drinks 20p by the way, complete ever exaggeration there. i've lived in york all my life and the amount of fights i've seen in town I could add up on 2 hands - and we're talking a good 20 years of going out on fridays or saturdays. this impression that people give that the whole of the city centre is drunken, fighting, vomiting youths is ridiculous. i agree there are always a set of mindless idiots, but every city in the UK on a saturday evening has this problem, not just us![/p][/quote]I think you should look at the statistics for violent crime in York and not rely on your own experience: http://www.ukcrimest ats.com/Neighbourhoo d/North_Yorkshire_Po lice/York_City Figures out up to March 2012 Both the figures for anti-social behaviour and violent crimes plus the map relevant to the discussion. The months are interesting (highest levels in summer months) too. M.Lucas
  • Score: 0

5:53pm Fri 14 Dec 12

M.Lucas says...

Obviously the figures are only reported crime, not those many instances where crimes such as antisocial behaviour not reported.
Obviously the figures are only reported crime, not those many instances where crimes such as antisocial behaviour not reported. M.Lucas
  • Score: 0

10:50pm Fri 14 Dec 12

akaroa says...

In the 60s, when i started boozing, there were many many more bars/pubs than there are now. fights were commonplace.There were bars that a person daren't enter, at lunch time or night for fear of violence. The police patroled the pubs on busy nights. Lockins, after hours drinking was commonplace, The situation was manageable then and should be now, booze and violence go hand in hand
In the 60s, when i started boozing, there were many many more bars/pubs than there are now. fights were commonplace.There were bars that a person daren't enter, at lunch time or night for fear of violence. The police patroled the pubs on busy nights. Lockins, after hours drinking was commonplace, The situation was manageable then and should be now, booze and violence go hand in hand akaroa
  • Score: 0

10:52pm Fri 14 Dec 12

akaroa says...

In the 60s, when i started boozing, there were many many more bars/pubs than there are now. fights were commonplace.There were bars that a person daren't enter, at lunch time or night for fear of violence. The police patroled the pubs on busy nights. Lockins, after hours drinking was commonplace, The situation was manageable then and should be now, booze and violence go hand in hand
In the 60s, when i started boozing, there were many many more bars/pubs than there are now. fights were commonplace.There were bars that a person daren't enter, at lunch time or night for fear of violence. The police patroled the pubs on busy nights. Lockins, after hours drinking was commonplace, The situation was manageable then and should be now, booze and violence go hand in hand akaroa
  • Score: 0

11:12pm Fri 14 Dec 12

anistasia says...

Town should be more like new earswick no pubs the odd drunk coming home from city centre.it seems to me shops that have closed or closed banks open as bars or cafes.the people who enjoy a drink have a good time and go home without any problem are welcome.its the ones that can't take the drinks have fights should get heafty fine and banned for months from town.he York had sensible drinkers more people may go into town at night.it's the fear of been attacked that stops a lot of people going our.a friend of mine coming home from work as been attacked twice.York is a tourist city but we need more shops in the town to get locals and visitors to come and go round York we are losing our town centres we need more normal shops .do people think what do tourists think we are a culture of heavy drinkers and food junkies how many pubs and pasty shops do we need they go back home and say every corner somewhere to eat and drink.with in a few yards of each other top end davygate a bakery then browns cafe and the pub selling food in the square the hot dog stand and two more bakeries and may be more then all these cafes in parliament street and pret manger shop taking up foot path space needed for walkers, pushchairs, wheelchairs put more benches back so you don't have to pay and sit at a cafe table.
Town should be more like new earswick no pubs the odd drunk coming home from city centre.it seems to me shops that have closed or closed banks open as bars or cafes.the people who enjoy a drink have a good time and go home without any problem are welcome.its the ones that can't take the drinks have fights should get heafty fine and banned for months from town.he York had sensible drinkers more people may go into town at night.it's the fear of been attacked that stops a lot of people going our.a friend of mine coming home from work as been attacked twice.York is a tourist city but we need more shops in the town to get locals and visitors to come and go round York we are losing our town centres we need more normal shops .do people think what do tourists think we are a culture of heavy drinkers and food junkies how many pubs and pasty shops do we need they go back home and say every corner somewhere to eat and drink.with in a few yards of each other top end davygate a bakery then browns cafe and the pub selling food in the square the hot dog stand and two more bakeries and may be more then all these cafes in parliament street and pret manger shop taking up foot path space needed for walkers, pushchairs, wheelchairs put more benches back so you don't have to pay and sit at a cafe table. anistasia
  • Score: 0

11:48am Mon 17 Dec 12

Scarlet Pimpernel says...

cityforthepremier wrote:
Dave Taylor wrote: I would have more sympathy with Cllr Watson, if he, and his colleagues, hadn't voted to increase out-of town shopping to such a massive extent. This will make it far more difficult attract new retail to the city centre and a drop in over £50million per annum for city centre retailers (Council consultants' figures) will send some into bankrupcy. Cllr. Watson is therefore, to some extent, the architect of his own city's downfall.
There is more to the City of York than the City Centre and there are more York taxpayers on the outskirts of York than there are in the City Centre. I am happy to see job opportunities provided for people who live "out of town" rather than them being regarded as second class citizens despite paying for everything. The Council is supposed to represent ALL people in the City not just the vested interests in the City Centre, Cllr Taylor would do well to remember that.
....and not just the vested interests of YCFC either !!!!!
[quote][p][bold]cityforthepremier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dave Taylor[/bold] wrote: I would have more sympathy with Cllr Watson, if he, and his colleagues, hadn't voted to increase out-of town shopping to such a massive extent. This will make it far more difficult attract new retail to the city centre and a drop in over £50million per annum for city centre retailers (Council consultants' figures) will send some into bankrupcy. Cllr. Watson is therefore, to some extent, the architect of his own city's downfall.[/p][/quote]There is more to the City of York than the City Centre and there are more York taxpayers on the outskirts of York than there are in the City Centre. I am happy to see job opportunities provided for people who live "out of town" rather than them being regarded as second class citizens despite paying for everything. The Council is supposed to represent ALL people in the City not just the vested interests in the City Centre, Cllr Taylor would do well to remember that.[/p][/quote]....and not just the vested interests of YCFC either !!!!! Scarlet Pimpernel
  • Score: 0

1:31pm Mon 17 Dec 12

cityforthepremier says...

Scarlet Pimpernel wrote:
cityforthepremier wrote:
Dave Taylor wrote: I would have more sympathy with Cllr Watson, if he, and his colleagues, hadn't voted to increase out-of town shopping to such a massive extent. This will make it far more difficult attract new retail to the city centre and a drop in over £50million per annum for city centre retailers (Council consultants' figures) will send some into bankrupcy. Cllr. Watson is therefore, to some extent, the architect of his own city's downfall.
There is more to the City of York than the City Centre and there are more York taxpayers on the outskirts of York than there are in the City Centre. I am happy to see job opportunities provided for people who live "out of town" rather than them being regarded as second class citizens despite paying for everything. The Council is supposed to represent ALL people in the City not just the vested interests in the City Centre, Cllr Taylor would do well to remember that.
....and not just the vested interests of YCFC either !!!!!
I doubt it will be YCFC providing the jobs, seeing as the staff are already in post.
[quote][p][bold]Scarlet Pimpernel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cityforthepremier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dave Taylor[/bold] wrote: I would have more sympathy with Cllr Watson, if he, and his colleagues, hadn't voted to increase out-of town shopping to such a massive extent. This will make it far more difficult attract new retail to the city centre and a drop in over £50million per annum for city centre retailers (Council consultants' figures) will send some into bankrupcy. Cllr. Watson is therefore, to some extent, the architect of his own city's downfall.[/p][/quote]There is more to the City of York than the City Centre and there are more York taxpayers on the outskirts of York than there are in the City Centre. I am happy to see job opportunities provided for people who live "out of town" rather than them being regarded as second class citizens despite paying for everything. The Council is supposed to represent ALL people in the City not just the vested interests in the City Centre, Cllr Taylor would do well to remember that.[/p][/quote]....and not just the vested interests of YCFC either !!!!![/p][/quote]I doubt it will be YCFC providing the jobs, seeing as the staff are already in post. cityforthepremier
  • Score: 0

3:26pm Mon 17 Dec 12

Mr Trellis says...

Donkeys on Parliamernt Street,tents garden sheds helta skelters roundabouts all sponsored by CYC, and Watson accuses responsible bar operaters of turning the City into Blackpool.
He needs to get his own act gang sorted out before criisising invessters who pay NDR and create jobs. Better still he should clear off.
Donkeys on Parliamernt Street,tents garden sheds helta skelters roundabouts all sponsored by CYC, and Watson accuses responsible bar operaters of turning the City into Blackpool. He needs to get his own act gang sorted out before criisising invessters who pay NDR and create jobs. Better still he should clear off. Mr Trellis
  • Score: 0

1:50am Tue 18 Dec 12

eeoodares says...

anti-rant wrote:
eeoodares wrote:
nasrudin wrote:
eeoodares wrote:
nasrudin wrote:
Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship.

The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk...

I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.
Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.
If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is.
Well I believe you are wrong, as do the vast majority of visitors and the businesses and residents of York who rely on the money tourism brings into this city.
People like you who always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence are a sad bunch. I have spent some time in Barcelona, and if you think that York has problems where Barcelona has not I suggest you take your head out of your backside! In fact I challenge you to walk alone from the port to the head of the Ramblas at 4am whilst talking on your mobile...You would last about 10 minutes!
eeoodares, I think you are wide of the mark in regards to nasrudin. He seems fairly level headed and you sounding like a ranting loon.
anti-rant. With the greatest respect, which you do not deserve. My point is that York is not violent, it is not even rough. If the contributor thinks that York is a more dangerous place to live than Barcelona then I contest that. I would walk, quiet happily, through the city centre at 4am on my own, talking on a very expensive iphone. The contributor suggested that Barcelona was a better place to live ( I know Barcelona) I suggested a similar distance walk in Barcelona at the same time of night would result in an assault. It is a comparative, if you think that is wrong OK, but it is hardly a rant.
[quote][p][bold]anti-rant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship. The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk... I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.[/p][/quote]Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.[/p][/quote]If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is.[/p][/quote]Well I believe you are wrong, as do the vast majority of visitors and the businesses and residents of York who rely on the money tourism brings into this city. People like you who always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence are a sad bunch. I have spent some time in Barcelona, and if you think that York has problems where Barcelona has not I suggest you take your head out of your backside! In fact I challenge you to walk alone from the port to the head of the Ramblas at 4am whilst talking on your mobile...You would last about 10 minutes![/p][/quote]eeoodares, I think you are wide of the mark in regards to nasrudin. He seems fairly level headed and you sounding like a ranting loon.[/p][/quote]anti-rant. With the greatest respect, which you do not deserve. My point is that York is not violent, it is not even rough. If the contributor thinks that York is a more dangerous place to live than Barcelona then I contest that. I would walk, quiet happily, through the city centre at 4am on my own, talking on a very expensive iphone. The contributor suggested that Barcelona was a better place to live ( I know Barcelona) I suggested a similar distance walk in Barcelona at the same time of night would result in an assault. It is a comparative, if you think that is wrong OK, but it is hardly a rant. eeoodares
  • Score: 0

1:53am Tue 18 Dec 12

eeoodares says...

M.Lucas wrote:
eeoodares wrote:
nasrudin wrote:
eeoodares wrote:
nasrudin wrote:
Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship.

The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk...

I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.
Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.
If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is.
Well I believe you are wrong, as do the vast majority of visitors and the businesses and residents of York who rely on the money tourism brings into this city.
People like you who always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence are a sad bunch. I have spent some time in Barcelona, and if you think that York has problems where Barcelona has not I suggest you take your head out of your backside! In fact I challenge you to walk alone from the port to the head of the Ramblas at 4am whilst talking on your mobile...You would last about 10 minutes!
This user may have a 'google problem'
I think you may have a communication problem.
[quote][p][bold]M.Lucas[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nasrudin[/bold] wrote: Not been to Talin, but if the others you mentioned are "Premier League", York's not even Championship. The cathedral's fairly boring, the walls are mostly victorian, the Shambles is grotty and the only nice bars are always rammed. On Fri and Sat nights, venture in to town at your own risk... I disagree with the objection to more bars, I think that more, but less-busy, places gives a much nicer and more relaxed drinking culture.[/p][/quote]Well I love my City. If you do not like it move, there are loads of places to live.[/p][/quote]If I could move Barcelona I would! But no, despite being nasty at closing time, York's a pleasant enough place to live. It's just not the world class tourist destination it thinks it is.[/p][/quote]Well I believe you are wrong, as do the vast majority of visitors and the businesses and residents of York who rely on the money tourism brings into this city. People like you who always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence are a sad bunch. I have spent some time in Barcelona, and if you think that York has problems where Barcelona has not I suggest you take your head out of your backside! In fact I challenge you to walk alone from the port to the head of the Ramblas at 4am whilst talking on your mobile...You would last about 10 minutes![/p][/quote]This user may have a 'google problem'[/p][/quote]I think you may have a communication problem. eeoodares
  • Score: 0

2:08am Tue 18 Dec 12

eeoodares says...

This site seems to be dominated by small minded petty people. People of the Ilk of M.Lucas, Nasrudin, 20p a pint moron and all.

It is simple, if you think there is somewhere better to live name it! and explain the reason you are here and not there!

Life is short, be where you want to be, with who you to be with...if you are not there do not moan about here!

JUST STOP MOANING!!
This site seems to be dominated by small minded petty people. People of the Ilk of M.Lucas, Nasrudin, 20p a pint moron and all. It is simple, if you think there is somewhere better to live name it! and explain the reason you are here and not there! Life is short, be where you want to be, with who you to be with...if you are not there do not moan about here! JUST STOP MOANING!! eeoodares
  • Score: 0

10:01am Tue 18 Dec 12

M.Lucas says...

eeoodares wrote:
This site seems to be dominated by small minded petty people. People of the Ilk of M.Lucas, Nasrudin, 20p a pint moron and all.

It is simple, if you think there is somewhere better to live name it! and explain the reason you are here and not there!

Life is short, be where you want to be, with who you to be with...if you are not there do not moan about here!

JUST STOP MOANING!!
It's funny how you think any form of criticism of something or someone means that I want to be somewhere else. I've lived in York for 50 years this January and wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

York is a fantastic place which is why I comment and criticise because I want it to stay that way.

If you look at my posts on this story they have been involved in discussion with users or offering information to help the discussion such as the crime statistics. However all you seem to want to do is argue your point without engaging and insulting those you disagree with.

However the level of abuse towards other posters rather than engaging in the conversation is widespread on this site. This is a real shame, York needs open forums where people come together and discuss how we move this great city forward into the future. This one has been ruined by those who want to insult and shout down points they don't agree with under the protection on a made up name.

If anyone is a little bored at work today I recommend typing "eeoodares" into google and looking at a couple of the sites that come up.

I suppose putting 'not looking for a heavy relationship just someone to have a bit of fun with' on your online **** dating profile is probably a good idea if you are married.

Enjoy life in Acaster Malbis with your hazel eyes, short brown hair and love handles.

And with that, I retire from these boards.
[quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote: This site seems to be dominated by small minded petty people. People of the Ilk of M.Lucas, Nasrudin, 20p a pint moron and all. It is simple, if you think there is somewhere better to live name it! and explain the reason you are here and not there! Life is short, be where you want to be, with who you to be with...if you are not there do not moan about here! JUST STOP MOANING!![/p][/quote]It's funny how you think any form of criticism of something or someone means that I want to be somewhere else. I've lived in York for 50 years this January and wouldn't want to be anywhere else. York is a fantastic place which is why I comment and criticise because I want it to stay that way. If you look at my posts on this story they have been involved in discussion with users or offering information to help the discussion such as the crime statistics. However all you seem to want to do is argue your point without engaging and insulting those you disagree with. However the level of abuse towards other posters rather than engaging in the conversation is widespread on this site. This is a real shame, York needs open forums where people come together and discuss how we move this great city forward into the future. This one has been ruined by those who want to insult and shout down points they don't agree with under the protection on a made up name. If anyone is a little bored at work today I recommend typing "eeoodares" into google and looking at a couple of the sites that come up. I suppose putting 'not looking for a heavy relationship just someone to have a bit of fun with' on your online **** dating profile is probably a good idea if you are married. Enjoy life in Acaster Malbis with your hazel eyes, short brown hair and love handles. And with that, I retire from these boards. M.Lucas
  • Score: 0

8:31am Wed 19 Dec 12

anistasia says...

I am entitled to live here I was born here have family here I live the city but my points earlier on are valid and York is not safe I was beaten up twice in York and my ex twice going to work not even going out and you call York safe.it's safer than parts of Leeds or hull.but still a violent place at night.
I am entitled to live here I was born here have family here I live the city but my points earlier on are valid and York is not safe I was beaten up twice in York and my ex twice going to work not even going out and you call York safe.it's safer than parts of Leeds or hull.but still a violent place at night. anistasia
  • Score: 0

8:39am Wed 19 Dec 12

anistasia says...

I hope the council reads these posts above and acts in the best interest of the city and it's people.best Christmas wishes to you all.
I hope the council reads these posts above and acts in the best interest of the city and it's people.best Christmas wishes to you all. anistasia
  • Score: 0

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